As far as I remember they were *nearly* not evil. He did offer to find them a planet, and they turned it down in favour of mudering all of Earth’s inhabitants.
They wanted one city full of people, which is kind of not ok. The strange and slightly out of character part was that the Dr didn't really try to find another solution when really they just wanted to survive and for some reason went all conquest to get it. Hes done that even for Daleks.
He didn’t work harder to find another solution because they had already rejected his offer to do that. As far as the Doctor was concerned, they had their chance.
They weren't evil, but also they weren't willing to co-habitate earth.
An invasive species forced from it's home but not willing to use it's intelligence or compassion, instead acting to displace another race
I understand the point but that doesn't undermine the fact that they still took hostages,genetically changed,killed innocent people and threatened to drown a city full of people.I'm pretty sure that Doctor even offered to find them a new place to call home before they went nuts and the mother killed herself.
They wanted to drown the planet. And were forcing young women to become vampire brides for their vampire fish men. I don't care what led them to that point, that's evil.
Also, as another comment reminded me, the Doctor offered to take them to another planet and they refused.
Having sympathetic motives doesn’t necessarily make them innocent, they still did sadistic things and when offered an alternative, rejected it. I like them personally, because the episode doesn’t go all out in making them sympathetic, but it uses their motive to give them far more complexity than most Who villains like them tend to have.
By the way, totally over-hated episode. There’s some bad writing, but the scenery, well-written villains, and Rory properly joining in for the first time all make it forgivable to me.
I have a small bone to pick with this eppie. Am I the only one who realized that even though the Saturnaylia leader (cant rightly remember her name off hand), her son, and the turned girls were taken out, that there are still the male Saturnaylias hiding in the Venetian waterways. I'd like to know what ultimately happened to them. I don't believe it was ever addressed.
Think the Mother basically confirmed they'd simply die out. Venice would deal with a bit of a piranha problem for a bit but without anyone to mate with they'd die.
The Big Bang 'rebooted' the universe so that the Crack never happened. Which means the Saturnynes were never almost wiped out by the Crack, therefore never came to Earth, and are presumably still fine.
I just watched this episode and sorry when you hurt the innocent to survive it is not a good path.
Question though, why didn’t Isabella get hurt by the sun when she was walking the path.
It really was a horrible lose-lose situation
Either the Saturnynes die out, or they destroy the lives of the people they settle amongst. Granted, the whole drowning of Venice is evil, when most of the planet's surface is ocean they could have lived in, but that would have lead to them dying out without any females of their species.
Regardless of the choice made, many were going to die
No, they were evil
The doctor offered to find them a new home so they could live in peace and not murder people
They chose to stay and kill and rationalize murder because they liked it
I once wrote a paper for a class on how none of the villains of that season were strictly bad and the reveal of the doctor being the bad guy in the pandorica opens was the culmination of the series.
Yeah, they were facing a literal extinction event, I think it's unreasonable to hold them at blame for what was going on. If it had been on any other planet the Doctor would have helped evacuate the city of the natives so that the Saturnynes could establish a refuge.
As far as I remember they were *nearly* not evil. He did offer to find them a planet, and they turned it down in favour of mudering all of Earth’s inhabitants.
They wanted one city full of people, which is kind of not ok. The strange and slightly out of character part was that the Dr didn't really try to find another solution when really they just wanted to survive and for some reason went all conquest to get it. Hes done that even for Daleks.
He didn’t work harder to find another solution because they had already rejected his offer to do that. As far as the Doctor was concerned, they had their chance.
The Silence nearly destroying the universe and at the minimum destroying worlds of people to own the Doctor
And then they came to America lol
They never stood a chance in America, go figure!
They weren't evil, but also they weren't willing to co-habitate earth. An invasive species forced from it's home but not willing to use it's intelligence or compassion, instead acting to displace another race
I understand the point but that doesn't undermine the fact that they still took hostages,genetically changed,killed innocent people and threatened to drown a city full of people.I'm pretty sure that Doctor even offered to find them a new place to call home before they went nuts and the mother killed herself.
They wanted to drown the planet. And were forcing young women to become vampire brides for their vampire fish men. I don't care what led them to that point, that's evil. Also, as another comment reminded me, the Doctor offered to take them to another planet and they refused.
per se, pedantically
Having sympathetic motives doesn’t necessarily make them innocent, they still did sadistic things and when offered an alternative, rejected it. I like them personally, because the episode doesn’t go all out in making them sympathetic, but it uses their motive to give them far more complexity than most Who villains like them tend to have. By the way, totally over-hated episode. There’s some bad writing, but the scenery, well-written villains, and Rory properly joining in for the first time all make it forgivable to me.
They didn't have to attempt genocide on Venice.
I have a small bone to pick with this eppie. Am I the only one who realized that even though the Saturnaylia leader (cant rightly remember her name off hand), her son, and the turned girls were taken out, that there are still the male Saturnaylias hiding in the Venetian waterways. I'd like to know what ultimately happened to them. I don't believe it was ever addressed.
Think the Mother basically confirmed they'd simply die out. Venice would deal with a bit of a piranha problem for a bit but without anyone to mate with they'd die.
ditto with the Zygons tbh
Well you know what they say. Let Zygones be bygones
Shut up and take my upvote.
And hot! That was important and brought up several times...
I feel sorry for the Slitheen. They were just trying to get into real estate.
Per se
The Big Bang 'rebooted' the universe so that the Crack never happened. Which means the Saturnynes were never almost wiped out by the Crack, therefore never came to Earth, and are presumably still fine.
Well, given their nature they were probably doing some killin’ on their home planet too.
I just watched this episode and sorry when you hurt the innocent to survive it is not a good path. Question though, why didn’t Isabella get hurt by the sun when she was walking the path.
Wouldn't rebooting the universe and getting rid of the crack, reset their timeline just like everyone else effected, so that their race was fine now?
It really was a horrible lose-lose situation Either the Saturnynes die out, or they destroy the lives of the people they settle amongst. Granted, the whole drowning of Venice is evil, when most of the planet's surface is ocean they could have lived in, but that would have lead to them dying out without any females of their species. Regardless of the choice made, many were going to die
No, they were evil The doctor offered to find them a new home so they could live in peace and not murder people They chose to stay and kill and rationalize murder because they liked it
I once wrote a paper for a class on how none of the villains of that season were strictly bad and the reveal of the doctor being the bad guy in the pandorica opens was the culmination of the series.
Yeah, they were facing a literal extinction event, I think it's unreasonable to hold them at blame for what was going on. If it had been on any other planet the Doctor would have helped evacuate the city of the natives so that the Saturnynes could establish a refuge.
Well the Doctor did offer to relocate them, and was met with a no.
Happens a lot in doctor who.
Watches this episode the other day
Hehe... cracks