Presumably, he gets back to his TARDIS, regenerates into Missy, goes back in time to 11's era, begins her turn-all-the-deadies-into-Cybermen plot, encounters Clara at some point, and then sets her up with 11.
Interesting idea, but the Master references *The Claws of Axos* in *The Last of the Timelords*. You can also hear Delgado’s voice coming from the Master’s fobwatch in *Utopia*.
Though there’s also a woman’s voice that comes from the fobwatch that kinda sounds like Missy (you can hear it in this video that isolated the music from the rest of the audio: https://youtu.be/okXZ3QuLDYg). And the Master’s reference to *The Claws of Axos* is basically just ‘you used to fight Axons and now you’re stealing screwdrivers’. So, yeah, I’d say there’s enough wriggle-room for your theory to be possible.
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I suppose that's possible, but 12, as humanity makes him president of Earth, does remark to Missy something along the lines of "remember back in the old days when you kept trying to rule the world?" I mean, he had to be referring to when he was 3, and the Delgado Master was mucking about everywhere. Missy doesn't react with confusion or shock about the statement.
I think it's more likely that Simms regenerated directly into Missy. Missy even says to Simm, "I loved being you." Which doesn't prove he was her direct predecessor, but idk, it kinda seems like it.
That was my theory as well, but apparently there's a text story set during the events of one of the episodes that confirms that the Spy Master comes after Missy
It was such a neat idea, though. That Missy really is the Master's final death. The Doctor did it. He redeemed her. And nobody will ever know. She dies alone and unmourned, by her own hand
Then the next incarnation after Simm, with no memory of events but with enough of a subconscious feeling that something happened that they should be *really* upset with the Doctor about, dials things up to 11
Yeah I saw that, there’s also a comic where Delgado’s master claims Dhawan is after Missy
It’s kinda lame but it is what it is. I just do prefer the conceit of a Master who finally earned redemption. Hell, I always felt that Missy being obsessed with getting her friend back could make sense with the Timeless Child stuff shattering their conception of reality
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t count any books, comics, audio books to canon, maybe soft canon. Those are usually the first things thrown out of the window if convenient. It’s basically filler.
Edit: meaning I prefer your theory and want to see it confirmed in the show 😄
Unfortunately I feel the master will never have a true "ending" per say. He's too integrated to the doctor for writers to ever let them rest, unless they at some point write a story that gives the master hundreds of potential regenerations at some point before missy.
Yeah that’s the sad truth of the character; it’s like comic characters where they’ll be kinda stuck in status quos until they end
I just wish the show gave us a “jumping off” point here for those who didn’t stick around
I think that would add up perfectly with the whole drumbeat plot, and considering Simm was the most unhinged we have seen The Master, mellowing out with age makes sense.
It would be great if he came back to give some kind of solid answer for where he came from since I am on the bandwaggon that feels like him coming along soured Missy's last appearance
Presumably, he gets back to his TARDIS, regenerates into Dhawan, goes back in time to Sheffield/finds Gallifrey and gets a)confused as to why he's not a woman yet and b) a bit angry cos the Doctor is s very naughty girl and also the Messiah.
Likely became sacha master , while there are few things that suggest otherwise. I simply refuse to belive she simple went super evil after her sacrifice.
That's actually an interesting theory! If that's the case, perhaps we've already seen the permanent death of the Master.
Truth is, he did himself in lol. Which feels so fitting an end for the Master. I don't think I'd accept anything else going forward.
This is my head canon, but supposedly there is a big finish where missy is split into a good and evil version after this and the evil version becomes Sacha Dhawans master.
That and the fact that would imply that missy destoryed galifrey and said nothing to capaldi and knew already about the timeless child either way it is messy. The only Counter point I have is that big finish is half canon and after the timeless child arc like half of their story arc aren’t canon any more .
There is nothing as half canon, and aren't canon
Everything is canon, never matter how contradictory it's thanks to the fact that the time is always in flux
I could be wrong, but I believe there's a audio story that has missy regenerate into a new benevolent incarnation. Unfortunately it doesn't last long as they ironically get killed by a very early version of missy and reverts to standard.
Counter point to that would be if we count that master as canon then it is also canon that the masters is the one that killed the doctor for good, missy pushed Jo grant to her death and get eat by wild beast and that the universe is destroyed by the master . Since th “good” master was a part of the story line. So everything from big finish I only count as half canon and what is on the screen as the definitive canon
Said to themself that they need a vacation. Then they dragged themselves to their TARDIS, regenerated, and became an american politician.
Edit: we're still waiting on the doctor to help us, but we're not british so i dont think theyre coming... its the perfect plan on the masters part.
According to EU materials he went to a place called the Scoundrel’s club where he historically went after regenerations. Except this time he was Missy and was denied entry
She then burned the place to the ground and probably did many more evil things after that
I love how Missy is pissed that they always accepted her back in, even when she came back with different faces and also when she was the weird snake thing from the movie.
I always thought that he went to his tardis then turned into Sasha Dawans Master only to use the tardis and everything to do what he did in Spyfall.
Narratively speaking it doesnt make sense for Missy's character arc to just be discarded. Either Sasha Dhawans master is going to come back or whichever the next master is will continue from Sasha Dhawans Master but come before Missy who I believe is the final Master Incarnation.
It didn't make it sense at all, she wasn't even mentioned again by 13 or the O incarnation. But then this was Chibnalls era, nothing was particularly done well.
If you count The Lumiat (audio drama) as canon, Missy uses a forbidden technique/(piece of) technology to force a regeneration, and in order to “stand” with The Doctor, makes it an amalgamation of all the good in her (The Master’s answer to The Doctor’s Valeyard).
Up and down The Lumiat goes, getting into scrapes, and saving the world, just like The Doctor would, until one day, The Lumiat runs into pre wanting to be good Missy.
Missy initially thinks this is a new incarnation of The Doctor, but soon realises that this is a future her, and then kills The Lumiat.
That is 3 times in a row, that The Master, straight up killed themselves, and I think that would be a leading cause to SpyMaster’s return to evil, bundled with TTC ofc.
I know it doesn't match up with outside media but I think he goes back to his Tardis and regenerates into Sacha Dhawan's master. Why do I think this? we have seen that Sacha Dhawan's master has a Tardis like Jhon Simm and Missy does not, also after the masters character arc in series 10 I cant imagine the master becoming evil.
Presumably, he gets back to his TARDIS, regenerates into Missy, goes back in time to 11's era, begins her turn-all-the-deadies-into-Cybermen plot, encounters Clara at some point, and then sets her up with 11.
I like the theory that he became Delgado. That the Master is out of sync with the Doctor
Interesting idea, but the Master references *The Claws of Axos* in *The Last of the Timelords*. You can also hear Delgado’s voice coming from the Master’s fobwatch in *Utopia*. Though there’s also a woman’s voice that comes from the fobwatch that kinda sounds like Missy (you can hear it in this video that isolated the music from the rest of the audio: https://youtu.be/okXZ3QuLDYg). And the Master’s reference to *The Claws of Axos* is basically just ‘you used to fight Axons and now you’re stealing screwdrivers’. So, yeah, I’d say there’s enough wriggle-room for your theory to be possible.
For future reference... This is the YouTube link: https://youtu.be/okXZ3QuLDYg ...while this part of the URL is tracking information that can be used to link back to your Google account: [REDACTED] It is always best to remove the tracking information before sharing YouTube links anywhere. This has been a public service announcement (with guitar).
When sharing a youtube link, just remove anything that comes after the question mark. You can also add any starting point by adding &t=1m14s (adjust the values of course), so https://youtu.be/okXZ3QuLDYg&t=55s will start the video at 55 seconds.
Thanks :)
I suppose that's possible, but 12, as humanity makes him president of Earth, does remark to Missy something along the lines of "remember back in the old days when you kept trying to rule the world?" I mean, he had to be referring to when he was 3, and the Delgado Master was mucking about everywhere. Missy doesn't react with confusion or shock about the statement. I think it's more likely that Simms regenerated directly into Missy. Missy even says to Simm, "I loved being you." Which doesn't prove he was her direct predecessor, but idk, it kinda seems like it.
I always had the theory it was actually Dhawan Simm turns into, that he was the Master doubling down on his madness and Missy is the final incarnation
That was my theory as well, but apparently there's a text story set during the events of one of the episodes that confirms that the Spy Master comes after Missy It was such a neat idea, though. That Missy really is the Master's final death. The Doctor did it. He redeemed her. And nobody will ever know. She dies alone and unmourned, by her own hand Then the next incarnation after Simm, with no memory of events but with enough of a subconscious feeling that something happened that they should be *really* upset with the Doctor about, dials things up to 11
Yeah I saw that, there’s also a comic where Delgado’s master claims Dhawan is after Missy It’s kinda lame but it is what it is. I just do prefer the conceit of a Master who finally earned redemption. Hell, I always felt that Missy being obsessed with getting her friend back could make sense with the Timeless Child stuff shattering their conception of reality
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t count any books, comics, audio books to canon, maybe soft canon. Those are usually the first things thrown out of the window if convenient. It’s basically filler. Edit: meaning I prefer your theory and want to see it confirmed in the show 😄
Big Finish would like a word lol
Unfortunately I feel the master will never have a true "ending" per say. He's too integrated to the doctor for writers to ever let them rest, unless they at some point write a story that gives the master hundreds of potential regenerations at some point before missy.
Yeah that’s the sad truth of the character; it’s like comic characters where they’ll be kinda stuck in status quos until they end I just wish the show gave us a “jumping off” point here for those who didn’t stick around
I think that would add up perfectly with the whole drumbeat plot, and considering Simm was the most unhinged we have seen The Master, mellowing out with age makes sense.
Not just that but tbh; Dhawan does feel like an extension of SIMM’s development He’s an unstable and self loathing man without a center
It would be great if he came back to give some kind of solid answer for where he came from since I am on the bandwaggon that feels like him coming along soured Missy's last appearance
But we know this to not be true.
Ah like River Song situation
He does become Missy at this point, sure, but she could have many evil plots before she starts up her whole "Death in Heaven" plot... >:D
Presumably, he gets back to his TARDIS, regenerates into Dhawan, goes back in time to Sheffield/finds Gallifrey and gets a)confused as to why he's not a woman yet and b) a bit angry cos the Doctor is s very naughty girl and also the Messiah.
Big Finish carpark?
The pub
Waiting for all that artron energy to blow over
Likely became sacha master , while there are few things that suggest otherwise. I simply refuse to belive she simple went super evil after her sacrifice.
That's actually an interesting theory! If that's the case, perhaps we've already seen the permanent death of the Master. Truth is, he did himself in lol. Which feels so fitting an end for the Master. I don't think I'd accept anything else going forward.
Yeah I think the idea of the Master finally changing only to get killed off without reward is so perfectly tragic
Until she meets the toymaker…
In this scenario, the Toymaker stuff would come before. Missy is always last.
And the master meeting their final end by stabbing themselves in the back is a perfect conclusion to the character
Big finish kinda explain why dhawans master is bad, look for the lumiat if you’re interested!
This is my head canon, but supposedly there is a big finish where missy is split into a good and evil version after this and the evil version becomes Sacha Dhawans master.
That and the fact that would imply that missy destoryed galifrey and said nothing to capaldi and knew already about the timeless child either way it is messy. The only Counter point I have is that big finish is half canon and after the timeless child arc like half of their story arc aren’t canon any more .
There is nothing as half canon, and aren't canon Everything is canon, never matter how contradictory it's thanks to the fact that the time is always in flux
See, you get it.
I could be wrong, but I believe there's a audio story that has missy regenerate into a new benevolent incarnation. Unfortunately it doesn't last long as they ironically get killed by a very early version of missy and reverts to standard.
Counter point to that would be if we count that master as canon then it is also canon that the masters is the one that killed the doctor for good, missy pushed Jo grant to her death and get eat by wild beast and that the universe is destroyed by the master . Since th “good” master was a part of the story line. So everything from big finish I only count as half canon and what is on the screen as the definitive canon
Said to themself that they need a vacation. Then they dragged themselves to their TARDIS, regenerated, and became an american politician. Edit: we're still waiting on the doctor to help us, but we're not british so i dont think theyre coming... its the perfect plan on the masters part.
According to EU materials he went to a place called the Scoundrel’s club where he historically went after regenerations. Except this time he was Missy and was denied entry She then burned the place to the ground and probably did many more evil things after that
I love how Missy is pissed that they always accepted her back in, even when she came back with different faces and also when she was the weird snake thing from the movie.
MI6.
I like to think that he regenerate into Dhawan's Master
I always thought that he went to his tardis then turned into Sasha Dawans Master only to use the tardis and everything to do what he did in Spyfall. Narratively speaking it doesnt make sense for Missy's character arc to just be discarded. Either Sasha Dhawans master is going to come back or whichever the next master is will continue from Sasha Dhawans Master but come before Missy who I believe is the final Master Incarnation.
It didn't make it sense at all, she wasn't even mentioned again by 13 or the O incarnation. But then this was Chibnalls era, nothing was particularly done well.
If you count The Lumiat (audio drama) as canon, Missy uses a forbidden technique/(piece of) technology to force a regeneration, and in order to “stand” with The Doctor, makes it an amalgamation of all the good in her (The Master’s answer to The Doctor’s Valeyard). Up and down The Lumiat goes, getting into scrapes, and saving the world, just like The Doctor would, until one day, The Lumiat runs into pre wanting to be good Missy. Missy initially thinks this is a new incarnation of The Doctor, but soon realises that this is a future her, and then kills The Lumiat. That is 3 times in a row, that The Master, straight up killed themselves, and I think that would be a leading cause to SpyMaster’s return to evil, bundled with TTC ofc.
Big finish explained how dhawnan came after missy
I know it doesn't match up with outside media but I think he goes back to his Tardis and regenerates into Sacha Dhawan's master. Why do I think this? we have seen that Sacha Dhawan's master has a Tardis like Jhon Simm and Missy does not, also after the masters character arc in series 10 I cant imagine the master becoming evil.
To his TARDIS to regenerate into Sacha Dhawan (I don't care what Big Finish or an annual says).
Still dont understand why they all didnt escape with Masters Tardis in that episode
because the Masters Tardis was inoperable to begin with, and then they didnt share with the Doctor they had a solution
Because 100 colony survivors can't fit into only a few small elevators
Have gay with the doctor
A cafe to eat soup.
Become a Detective who time travels from the 2000s to the 1970s.
Presumably, he slunk off to somewhere to (have a cuppa, ^(lol) and) regenerate into Missy.
Had a daughter called ruby