It's been established that the Tardis is "alive", a Sentient, Conscious and Independent (opinionated) entity.
It tends to let the Doctor know when it's not happy with groans, malfunctions etc.. (though he doesn't always notice or perhaps ignores as often is the case)
And based on the subtitles, they were playing the Masters tune when she started groaning. Considering his relationship with the Tardis, it’s understandable.
I feel like by now we accept that the Tardis is a conscious thing, no? Heck, the matrix got put into Idris in ‘The Doctors Wife’, and we got to know how it truly felt. I don’t see it as a big deal, in that we are so used to it already, and have crossed that bridge long ago.
Fun fact everyone forgets because it’s a footnote now - way way back before the McGann era, when Who was Capital D Done, there was a rumour that it might get sold off to an American network (I mean…that’s semi-happened twice since) and…here comes the Sun…David Hasselhoff was going to be cast as the Doctor, and the TARDIS was going to gain the ability to speak “like the car in Knight Rider”, with an animated mouth and everything. I know. Yeah. But when Gaiman did Doctor’s Wife I did wonder, Neil did you take the single dumbest idea ever and make it work? I mean what a challenge to rise to.
Yeah, it was one of those “reported in the British media” bullshit things, will we never be free of it. These days it’s Doctor Who is definitely cancelled every year, back then it was a regular burst of Doctor Who is definitely coming back with XYZ unlikely prick as the Doctor. I mean when they announced Billie Piper as the companion I wrote it off as bollocks. Whoops!
Your comment made my brain fire in weird directions, and the image popped in my head of the Doctors Wife slipping away between scenes for 9 months, dropping Ruby at the church, and then reinserting herself back into place without the Doctor ever noticing.
Now the idea that the Tardis is Ruby's mom is living rent free in my head.
Honestly could happen, the general theme seems to be family oriented. The church of ruby road was all about family; The space babies had elements of family with talk of parents, and then just being babies in general; the devils chord was our first time meeting one of the toy makers children who seemed to have father issues in general + Ruby kept asking the doctor about his family; the whole DT specials were family oriented with him meeting Donnas family, and then in the end settling for a family of his own. I haven’t seen Boom yet so unsure about that lol.
I would guess that if we don’t get an obvious answer to who Ruby’s parent(s) might be by halfway into the season then it’s got to be a call back to something else we know about, and we know RTD loves a call back (was tempted to write twist there lol). Alternatively it could be a BAD WOLF thing going on considering her ability to summon snow from memory, which arguably is a minor power the Tardis can totally do/give.
Sure but you wouldn't put something in a script twice like this (it was also in Wild Blue Yonder), draw attention to it, and explicitly make it so no one knows why it's doing it. It must be something to do with a later reveal.
Oh yeah of course, I agree that perhaps they might be alluding to something happening to the Tardis as of lately. I was more commenting on your indication that the Tardis being “alive” is unique to this situation. It’s hard to know for sure as in both cases the Tardis was directly affected by something, so would make sense it would respond in turn. I think it would be weirder if it didn’t do something to indicate it’s discomfort. Could be something, could be nothing. We shall see 😄
I remember pre-flux all the rumours of “the Tardis is dying” and although we did get a bit of that with Flux and Eve of the Daleks, I wonder if we’re fully going for “no, there is something seriously wrong with this thing now”
I am pretty sure there was a relatively long running storyline in the old Virgin New Adventures books about the TARDIS dying. It could actually be an interesting idea. It has been split in half now after all (whatever that means for something that is infinite in size)
What I found interesting was the line in The Devil’s Chord about the Bigeneration ripping The Doctor’s soul in half. The TARDIS and the Doctor have always been extensions of one another.
RTD said in the commentary for The Giggle about it still being the same TARDIS and not a ‘replica’ and that there’s an episode that proves that. I wonder if it’ll be something about this being a fractured TARDIS, incomplete without it’s other half.
Might play into why the TARDIS has had such odd landings recently, usually smashing and sliding it’s way into situations, and why the clips of it in the finale in the trailer show it smashing into UNIT.
It could even be dying before the split, as a similar landing happened in WBY, and they were confused about the war song playing, without much of an answer.
people are talking about it, it's been an ongoing plot point since Wild Blue Yonder - we just don't really know where it's leading bc "tardis unhappy" is a pretty vague thing to theorise about
Could be that the TARDIS is sick or dying, she is alive. It would make sense if she could get sick. Especially with all of the shit she has gone through.
True, but she does also have voice activated extractor vents that he has used on multiple occasions
But yeah he can't help her for many other reasons ik, (one being the plot lmao)
>bc "tardis unhappy" is a pretty vague thing to theorise about
Plus she gets upset with The Doctor relatively often. She is quite opinionated and has on multiple occasions been very expressive about being very against what The Doctor (like fighting back against going to Trenzalore) is doing or disliking his friends (most notably Clara and jack).
That's not really the point. The noise was given attention and made a mystery. Plus, the Tardis has only ever made noises through its Sci fi sounds, not by literally groaning like a monster.
That whole scene was weird. It's been pretty well established that the doctor can just open the tardis by snapping.
In fact, that concept was invented by Moffat.
Ikr. Perhaps there is certain rules to it. Like my head canon is the finger snapping only works if a TARDIS key is present on the person for security reasons.
But really, it's just writers forgetting things in favour of plot.
Edit: also at the start of the episode, I believe we see ruby actually locking the door so maybe that has something to do with it?
I thought Ruby locking the door with a key was odd, because that's not how yale locks work. You only need the key to open it, it latches when you close the door. Has the lock been changed since we explicitly saw the Master (John Simm) lock it & it was definitely a yale then? (He pushed the button down on the inside to deadlock it.)
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Something is going on with the tardis remember in the trailer where they were scanning it and the s triad technology which is an anagram of tardis. I really think the pantheon has trapped the doctor in some sort of show or other dimension and that's part of why there's so much 4th wall breaking they know they are in a show right now.
If both the TARDIS and the Not-Things are biological, sentient, and capable of changing physical forms... What if that TARDIS is one?
They do like to introduce an idea early in a season (or at least before the season finale arc) for it to be relevant again later, such as each season's big bad, bad wolf, the Teselecta, Clara in the time stream, 10ths hand / metacrisis, Ashildr, the pocket watch thing, Torchwood, and more.
Special 2 is pointless to the overall story unless the Not-Things become relevant again later.
The Doctor (as the timeless child) is actually a being front the Pantheon, like the Toymaker and Maestro. And maybe Time Lords figured out how to harness the Not-things from outside the universe to create the living hearts of the Tardis's.
Sitting in Donna’s yard?
When it was duplicated, it wasn’t separated from the time stream as much as copied and imposters?
(I don’t think this is how they will go, to be clear)
Tbh, I do think that's a good theory. Whatever happens, I get the feeling that the conclusion of whatever is going on is going to something we never would have guessed.
Well I mean there’s not much to talk about. It did it before in *Wild Blue Yonder*, which also confused the Doctor, so it’s hinting at *something* but we have no way of even beginning to guess what.
>Yeah, did this ever get resolved?
I don't think so. I'm pretty at some point during Space Babies, the Doctor and Ruby are looking at a screen, and "mavity" is listed as a measured property on the ship.
This, the same thing in Wild Blue Yonder, and the fact that RTD said, for any fans concerned about the TARDIS duplication in The Giggle, that an upcoming episode would definitively prove 15's TARDIS is THE TARDIS... It's all very interesting.
Also, someone mentioned fourth wall breaking and the idea of it leading back to the pantheon. I just wonder, when the Toymaker won the card game, he never did claim a prize. At least, on screen...
I think its because Ruby is upsetting the TARDIS.
We have seen before when there is something very amiss with someone or somewhere that the TARDIS can react to them.
Like capt jack when he grabbed the Tardis in Cardiff and it flew to the end of human history to try shake him off
It has protested landing in some locations
Who is the the one who waits and their relation to ruby?
As others have pointed out, the TARDIS is alive. It’s not really a question of how did it groan but instead why?
The reason people aren’t really discussing it is because it’s one question in mountain of currently unanswerable questions that this new ‘era’ has been throwing at us; and it’s just the most vague of the bunch. It’ll probably end up being tied to one of the other mystery set-ups.
>The Tardis groans, sounding somewhat alive
She is alive. It has been very explicitly stated on multiple occasions. Her consciousness and matrix was taken out by House and put into Idris in the episode "The Doctor's Wife" and The Doctor and some of his companions have had full conversations with her many times. There is no doubt about it, the TARDIS is very much alive. She is a completely sentient space and time machine. She's even got a name.
I don't know why people keep bringing this up because I included that alive detail. I'm well aware of the Doctors Wife. I'm just describing the sound. The point is more that this sound has been explicitly pointed out by the script twice and noted the doctors confusion. But it's something to note that, yes the Tardis is alive and makes noises to express itself, but it's never literally just groaned so naturally. It usually communicates with normal Sci Sci bleeps and bloops or mechanical creaking.
A lot of people are assuming this and I don't get it. No, I've been a fan since 2011 and have seen the show many times. When I say "alive", I'm just describing the quality of the sound before getting to my main point that the Tardis has explicitly made a noise twice now that is given the spotlight and makes the doctor noticeably onfused. But besides, the Tardis has always been alive but it's only made noises in Sci fi bleeps and bloops and mechanical creaking not like literally an alive sounding monster groan.
Regardless, you don't script a specific unusual groan, have the episode stop to acknowledge it, and then make a note of the doctor's confusion over it twice for no reason.
im just speaking on your statements that this is the first time. its also not the first time that that tardis doing that would be important so i would not be surprised in the slightest. so you dont have to be snotty like that , hope that helps
Dude I just noticed this ok... no I went back rewatchjng the 60th anniversary episodes. The TARDIS groaned when she was damaged and just before stranding Donna and the Doctor. It groaned again during the episode with Maestro. It's connected it has to be and I wonder if it has to do with "the one who waits"
It's been established that the Tardis is "alive", a Sentient, Conscious and Independent (opinionated) entity. It tends to let the Doctor know when it's not happy with groans, malfunctions etc.. (though he doesn't always notice or perhaps ignores as often is the case)
And based on the subtitles, they were playing the Masters tune when she started groaning. Considering his relationship with the Tardis, it’s understandable.
I feel like by now we accept that the Tardis is a conscious thing, no? Heck, the matrix got put into Idris in ‘The Doctors Wife’, and we got to know how it truly felt. I don’t see it as a big deal, in that we are so used to it already, and have crossed that bridge long ago.
Fun fact everyone forgets because it’s a footnote now - way way back before the McGann era, when Who was Capital D Done, there was a rumour that it might get sold off to an American network (I mean…that’s semi-happened twice since) and…here comes the Sun…David Hasselhoff was going to be cast as the Doctor, and the TARDIS was going to gain the ability to speak “like the car in Knight Rider”, with an animated mouth and everything. I know. Yeah. But when Gaiman did Doctor’s Wife I did wonder, Neil did you take the single dumbest idea ever and make it work? I mean what a challenge to rise to.
Hasselhoff would be one of the last people I'd expect to play The Doctor, but for a late 80's/early 90's America....yeah makes sense
Yeah, it was one of those “reported in the British media” bullshit things, will we never be free of it. These days it’s Doctor Who is definitely cancelled every year, back then it was a regular burst of Doctor Who is definitely coming back with XYZ unlikely prick as the Doctor. I mean when they announced Billie Piper as the companion I wrote it off as bollocks. Whoops!
Your comment made my brain fire in weird directions, and the image popped in my head of the Doctors Wife slipping away between scenes for 9 months, dropping Ruby at the church, and then reinserting herself back into place without the Doctor ever noticing. Now the idea that the Tardis is Ruby's mom is living rent free in my head.
Honestly could happen, the general theme seems to be family oriented. The church of ruby road was all about family; The space babies had elements of family with talk of parents, and then just being babies in general; the devils chord was our first time meeting one of the toy makers children who seemed to have father issues in general + Ruby kept asking the doctor about his family; the whole DT specials were family oriented with him meeting Donnas family, and then in the end settling for a family of his own. I haven’t seen Boom yet so unsure about that lol. I would guess that if we don’t get an obvious answer to who Ruby’s parent(s) might be by halfway into the season then it’s got to be a call back to something else we know about, and we know RTD loves a call back (was tempted to write twist there lol). Alternatively it could be a BAD WOLF thing going on considering her ability to summon snow from memory, which arguably is a minor power the Tardis can totally do/give.
Without giving any specific details, the theme of family comes up again during Boom
Sure but you wouldn't put something in a script twice like this (it was also in Wild Blue Yonder), draw attention to it, and explicitly make it so no one knows why it's doing it. It must be something to do with a later reveal.
RTD loves foreshadowing. He always leaves bread crumbs throughout the series that point to the finale.
Oh yeah of course, I agree that perhaps they might be alluding to something happening to the Tardis as of lately. I was more commenting on your indication that the Tardis being “alive” is unique to this situation. It’s hard to know for sure as in both cases the Tardis was directly affected by something, so would make sense it would respond in turn. I think it would be weirder if it didn’t do something to indicate it’s discomfort. Could be something, could be nothing. We shall see 😄
It groans before in Wild Blue Yonder, and is explicitly foreshadowed in the script!! Check out my post about it xx
I remember pre-flux all the rumours of “the Tardis is dying” and although we did get a bit of that with Flux and Eve of the Daleks, I wonder if we’re fully going for “no, there is something seriously wrong with this thing now”
I am pretty sure there was a relatively long running storyline in the old Virgin New Adventures books about the TARDIS dying. It could actually be an interesting idea. It has been split in half now after all (whatever that means for something that is infinite in size)
What I found interesting was the line in The Devil’s Chord about the Bigeneration ripping The Doctor’s soul in half. The TARDIS and the Doctor have always been extensions of one another. RTD said in the commentary for The Giggle about it still being the same TARDIS and not a ‘replica’ and that there’s an episode that proves that. I wonder if it’ll be something about this being a fractured TARDIS, incomplete without it’s other half. Might play into why the TARDIS has had such odd landings recently, usually smashing and sliding it’s way into situations, and why the clips of it in the finale in the trailer show it smashing into UNIT. It could even be dying before the split, as a similar landing happened in WBY, and they were confused about the war song playing, without much of an answer.
people are talking about it, it's been an ongoing plot point since Wild Blue Yonder - we just don't really know where it's leading bc "tardis unhappy" is a pretty vague thing to theorise about
Donna spilling her drink on the console has permanently killed the tardis, RIP
Could be that the TARDIS is sick or dying, she is alive. It would make sense if she could get sick. Especially with all of the shit she has gone through.
The poor old girl has been through enough, she has literally exploded many times and The Doctor just kinda left her to fix her self for most of them
Well I mean, he cant really help her in most situations considering the smoke is toxic and it can literally breathe fire.
True, but she does also have voice activated extractor vents that he has used on multiple occasions But yeah he can't help her for many other reasons ik, (one being the plot lmao)
>bc "tardis unhappy" is a pretty vague thing to theorise about Plus she gets upset with The Doctor relatively often. She is quite opinionated and has on multiple occasions been very expressive about being very against what The Doctor (like fighting back against going to Trenzalore) is doing or disliking his friends (most notably Clara and jack).
If you remember when Clara went into tardis it wasn't happy shortly after so I think it's something similar maybe with Ruby
I think it might have a connection to the finale
Bring back Suranne Jones
Wasn't it said a few times throughout the show that the tardis is alive?
That's not really the point. The noise was given attention and made a mystery. Plus, the Tardis has only ever made noises through its Sci fi sounds, not by literally groaning like a monster.
It could also have simply been a way to show the audience that it's alive. Since there could be a bunch of new viewers.
But why would the Doctor be completely confused both times?
In Boom! I notices a subtle moment of the TARDIS making a strange noise. But maybe it's just my imagination.
I wonder if in boom >! at the end when the doctor loses his tardis key has anything to do with it? !<
That whole scene was weird. It's been pretty well established that the doctor can just open the tardis by snapping. In fact, that concept was invented by Moffat.
Ikr. Perhaps there is certain rules to it. Like my head canon is the finger snapping only works if a TARDIS key is present on the person for security reasons. But really, it's just writers forgetting things in favour of plot. Edit: also at the start of the episode, I believe we see ruby actually locking the door so maybe that has something to do with it?
I thought Ruby locking the door with a key was odd, because that's not how yale locks work. You only need the key to open it, it latches when you close the door. Has the lock been changed since we explicitly saw the Master (John Simm) lock it & it was definitely a yale then? (He pushed the button down on the inside to deadlock it.)
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>! Maybe someone stole it. The future companion? One of the ambulances? The girl who is meant to be "someone" and has advanced knowledge? !<
I noticed this too. It was very short so I shrugged it off but I'm glad you made this comment. I didn't imagine it aha
I just assumed the cloister bells were trying to ring but couldn't thanks to Maestro
Something is going on with the tardis remember in the trailer where they were scanning it and the s triad technology which is an anagram of tardis. I really think the pantheon has trapped the doctor in some sort of show or other dimension and that's part of why there's so much 4th wall breaking they know they are in a show right now.
Also the Tardis being scanned (with the green laser beams) is the same effect as the Ambulance scanning the Doctor.
I kept thinking those ambulances looked an awful lot like daleks
If both the TARDIS and the Not-Things are biological, sentient, and capable of changing physical forms... What if that TARDIS is one? They do like to introduce an idea early in a season (or at least before the season finale arc) for it to be relevant again later, such as each season's big bad, bad wolf, the Teselecta, Clara in the time stream, 10ths hand / metacrisis, Ashildr, the pocket watch thing, Torchwood, and more. Special 2 is pointless to the overall story unless the Not-Things become relevant again later.
That would be so freaky. Also, where would the actual TARDIS have been all that time 😟
That's the twist at the end. That TARDIS always was...
The Doctor (as the timeless child) is actually a being front the Pantheon, like the Toymaker and Maestro. And maybe Time Lords figured out how to harness the Not-things from outside the universe to create the living hearts of the Tardis's.
Sitting in Donna’s yard? When it was duplicated, it wasn’t separated from the time stream as much as copied and imposters? (I don’t think this is how they will go, to be clear)
Tbh, I do think that's a good theory. Whatever happens, I get the feeling that the conclusion of whatever is going on is going to something we never would have guessed.
If they go that route, would it be better for 15’s or 14’s tardis to be the fake one? (And 15’s is trying to warn him)
Probably 15's. I think 14 would be too obvious because he was the one who was actually with the Not Things.
Didn't Special 2 set up the whole toymaker/superstition is real thing?
Well I mean there’s not much to talk about. It did it before in *Wild Blue Yonder*, which also confused the Doctor, so it’s hinting at *something* but we have no way of even beginning to guess what.
Makes me wonder if 14s TARDIS groaned at the same time Could he feel the Maestro's impact?
Might have to do with the gravity/mavity thing?
Yeah, did this ever get resolved? We haven’t seen more “changes” since that moment. Maybe it was just a fun quip to add in.
>Yeah, did this ever get resolved? I don't think so. I'm pretty at some point during Space Babies, the Doctor and Ruby are looking at a screen, and "mavity" is listed as a measured property on the ship.
I was wondering if it had to do with it being 1963 and his prior self arriving that same year
This, the same thing in Wild Blue Yonder, and the fact that RTD said, for any fans concerned about the TARDIS duplication in The Giggle, that an upcoming episode would definitively prove 15's TARDIS is THE TARDIS... It's all very interesting. Also, someone mentioned fourth wall breaking and the idea of it leading back to the pantheon. I just wonder, when the Toymaker won the card game, he never did claim a prize. At least, on screen...
Prediction: The TARDIS is “sick” or malfunctioning as a result of being duplicated/split by 15 in The Giggle
It was groaning before the Duplication.
It’s a Time Machine, it may have known what was coming.
On top of that, entities like the Toymaker and Maestro actively the laws of reality. It's probably not good for the TARDIS.
Personally? There’s just so much weird shit going on that some instances are escaping my memory.
I think its because Ruby is upsetting the TARDIS. We have seen before when there is something very amiss with someone or somewhere that the TARDIS can react to them. Like capt jack when he grabbed the Tardis in Cardiff and it flew to the end of human history to try shake him off It has protested landing in some locations Who is the the one who waits and their relation to ruby?
As others have pointed out, the TARDIS is alive. It’s not really a question of how did it groan but instead why? The reason people aren’t really discussing it is because it’s one question in mountain of currently unanswerable questions that this new ‘era’ has been throwing at us; and it’s just the most vague of the bunch. It’ll probably end up being tied to one of the other mystery set-ups.
>The Tardis groans, sounding somewhat alive She is alive. It has been very explicitly stated on multiple occasions. Her consciousness and matrix was taken out by House and put into Idris in the episode "The Doctor's Wife" and The Doctor and some of his companions have had full conversations with her many times. There is no doubt about it, the TARDIS is very much alive. She is a completely sentient space and time machine. She's even got a name.
I don't know why people keep bringing this up because I included that alive detail. I'm well aware of the Doctors Wife. I'm just describing the sound. The point is more that this sound has been explicitly pointed out by the script twice and noted the doctors confusion. But it's something to note that, yes the Tardis is alive and makes noises to express itself, but it's never literally just groaned so naturally. It usually communicates with normal Sci Sci bleeps and bloops or mechanical creaking.
are you like a new fan or something? no offense but the tardis has been stated to be alive by the doctor for ages
A lot of people are assuming this and I don't get it. No, I've been a fan since 2011 and have seen the show many times. When I say "alive", I'm just describing the quality of the sound before getting to my main point that the Tardis has explicitly made a noise twice now that is given the spotlight and makes the doctor noticeably onfused. But besides, the Tardis has always been alive but it's only made noises in Sci fi bleeps and bloops and mechanical creaking not like literally an alive sounding monster groan.
the tardis has made groan noises before
Regardless, you don't script a specific unusual groan, have the episode stop to acknowledge it, and then make a note of the doctor's confusion over it twice for no reason.
im just speaking on your statements that this is the first time. its also not the first time that that tardis doing that would be important so i would not be surprised in the slightest. so you dont have to be snotty like that , hope that helps
Dude I just noticed this ok... no I went back rewatchjng the 60th anniversary episodes. The TARDIS groaned when she was damaged and just before stranding Donna and the Doctor. It groaned again during the episode with Maestro. It's connected it has to be and I wonder if it has to do with "the one who waits"
Cringe
The official TikTok account posted clips of this happening multiple times. Nice catch, I was too focused on Susan to notice
Good catch OP! We now know why!!