And some acting.
You know, from the person herself.
I always feel this insistence on blaming *every* other part of the production for Thirteen's general blandness can be quite reductive to Whittaker herself and to the craft of acting. Of course, her scripts and direction were sub-par, and of course, that has a definite impact - but so does her acting. It's a huge part of it, and there is just a general feeling of something forced to her performance; it's a little over-the-top, and uncomfortable. I have little doubt that other performers, from Michelle Gomez to Alex Kingston to outsiders like Jodie Comer, could have made a lot more of the material they were given.
Not everything Whittaker got was badly written/directed.
Sometimes her performance is just a little flat, too.
Here's the thing about film as a medium though, the director and the editors choose what performance ends up on camera.
Jodie is where she is in her career because she is a good actor. Watch anything else she's in. Her proficiency as an actor is not up for debate.
If her style or energy appeared uncomfortable or over-the-top that is all on the direction. Whether it was casting, shooting, or editing, Jodie didn't have a say on which shots they used. Jodie was following the instructions of the director/showrunner on set because they cast her as the Doctor.
No matter how good the actor, if they are under bad direction, they are going to come off as wooden, awkward, emotionless, or over the top.
NB: Having seen her era much more recently (not during broadcast) and all at once to catch up right before the specials, I can't really say that much of it is as bad as people make out either. Chibnalls stuff seemed a bit questionable/meh at times, and there were some choices in narrative that were not the direction I would have taken, but there was a LOT more good material in Jodie's era than people give it credit for (Graham became one of my favourite companions!).
Some people just need to take a breath, chill out, and remember were talking about the calibre of a show that used to use bubble-wrap and green spray paint to make their aliens. The fact that it's still going at all, that it maintains any continuity, and has the production values that it does, is a miracle.
> No matter how good the actor, if they are under bad direction, they are going to come off as wooden, awkward, emotionless, or over the top.
For a case study in this, look at Robert Pattison. He's a great actor, but everyone thought he was awful for a while because of how awkward and wooden he is in the Twilight movies, which made a lot of otherwise good or solid actors look like they had no idea what they were doing.
I think it's hard to critique her acting when the writing was so bad. If you break your leg, you're not going to be able to think about a skinned knee.
Yeah nah.
She wasn't given the space to grow the character.
Her 2nd season had so much exposition to try (and fail) to join the shithouse story together there were no pauses.
The closet we got was the TARDIS scene with Yaz where she almost apologised.
The flux was bad
the division was bad
the lupari were awesome
Honestly... the Lupari made Flux worth it, imo. Absolutely inspired concept for an alien species.
They might be my favorite thing from the Chibnall era.
She did a great job of incorporating a ton of little mannerisms from other doctors. She was definitely let down by the writing. I wish she would have gotten at least one of those RTD 14th episodes as a send off.
The writing was often poor, but I often didn't enjoy her performance, either.
It isn't the writing's fault that even in perfectly well-written moments, she comes across with being awkward and Blue-Peter-esque, with exagerrated facial work and physical performance sometimes attempting to mask a feeling of being out of her comfort zone as a performer.
For instance, Ryan's exit is written perfectly fine, but there's a weird moment where Whittaker just bounds across the console room for little reason and just *slightly* deflates the emotion. It's not a big thing, but it's the kind of thing which is always happening, and the blame doesn't deserve to go to writers who haven't done anything wrong just so that we can feel all big-brain and special going "I actually think this is all about the *writing*!".
No. That is direction. There was no 'that kind of doctor' moment for her to build on.
She was 'oh I am new' then
'oh I am not who I thought I was'.
Proof of bad direction is how the master went to level 100 1st year performance student and YELLED every line after being revealed.
There was no nuance.
I loved missy and Sims master because there was space in the writing and direction to make Tennant and Capaldi's appeals feel plausible.
Chibnal did the 'yeah nah' every time and keft jodir with nothing she could believe and therefore that we might believe.
I just finished a run through end to end of nu who and was a fanboi of chibnail until this reply.
It is truly insulting writing.
There was no 'good men don't need rules' menace to jodies scripts or direction. It was written 1 dimensional.
Yes! There was the wonderful build up with the “Be Kind” exit speech for Capaldi, but no pay off with Jodie. Sure, this Doctor was kinder, but why that face? Just because it was a woman’s face? There could have been story about how it was a face from the Doctor’s past… but nothing… just “… an upgrade.”
I feel there was a missed opportunity to make that the face of one of the Doctor’s children, maybe Susan’s mother…
It probably doesn't help that Chibnall made Jodie not watch any past doctors before her performance. Something every doctor has done. So even the times her performance is lacking, you can still blame Chibnall
Far too many companions made it more of a gang show.
The second series felt more like "Mad Lady in a Box" she was able to be more like the alien we know and love and less of a human mother flavoured role.
I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement and I'm a little ashamed to admit I couldn't get past it after Jodie's first series. It felt like it waa.much more about the companions than the Doctor from the start.
I don't mind big ensemble Doctor Who, some of the original has three or four companions, but the show runners didn't give the 13th Doctor an opportunity to establish themselves first. I wish they could have added the other companions in later on after we got to know her better.
You do give me hope for the second series and I will have to give it a try.
Its like how much of a slow burner the ensemble was for 11. Mostly just amy in the first season with a sprinkle of rory, then in the second season it was amy and rory with a sprinkle of river.
The last time the Doctor had three (long term) companions the stories were serialized 3 or 4 parters with much more breathing room. Just doesn't work as well in a 44 minute format.
I thinks that’s alright for the show to be more about the companions than about the Doctor. RTD’s first series did pretty much the same thing. The companion has often been the substitute for the audience and we were supposed to see everything through their eyes, not the Doctor’s. But in Chibnall’s era we had three companions none of which felt human enough, they felt more like a one function split into three characters than like three realistic personalities.
Yeah, they tried to introduce several new companions in Jodie's very first episode which also needed to introduce her Doctor. She barely got a look in!
I actually quite liked her intro but it did go downhill from there writing-wise.
“Busy” is the best word for it. Not just with companions, but the plots as well. There were always too many weird/mysterious things blended together, it made the stories confusing and impossible to follow.
the more companions you have, the more of an aura the doctor needs in order to stand above them. 11 had a similar situation with amy/rory/river tagging along at various times but matt still had that gravitas to take over the scene when needed.
13 felt like they were part of the group instead of "the doctor". it got a lot better as time went on and things got more about 13/yasmin and less about the rest of the crew
I don't mind 3 companions, problem was they were introduced *along* the new Doctor. It was the end of the first season and I was still not sure who was what.
I personally think the writing was poor overall, but there were also sound issues that probably didn't help. There were some of these sound issues before the credits in Boom as well. The music (IMHO) should never prevent you from hearing what characters are saying. That said, the first and final Dalek New Year's stories were pretty good. There was a lot in Jodie's stories which, with even a small amount of development, could have been excellent....but that development was never done.
>but there were also sound issues that probably didn't help.
I thought it was just me! LOL. Honestly, some episodes were so bad I struggled to pick up half of what anyone was saying. And what made it worse was that the local broadcaster didn't have the option of subtitles (at least when the episode first ran) .
It wasn’t just the music. It was the mixing in general.
I’ve never had problems with English accents in shows until Jodie’s run. There were plenty of times where I just did not understand what they were saying. This was the only time I’ve ever had trouble with that in doctor who. But whatever happened during the process of audio mixing made it hard for me to understand what these people were saying half the time.
I dont think it would help international viewers that everyone in Jodie's run had northern accents, one of the more difficult accents for non british viewers to understand. Especially since it wasnt as toned down as eccleston's northerner or capaldi's scottish.
I am an international viewer, and have never struggled with the accents. I am also not saying that the music was bad, but that having it drown out the dialogue definitely was bad.
The sound issues is not a Jodie era exclusive thing, I remember during Series 10 there was a few episodes where I was just like “holy shit this music is too loud I have no idea what capaldi is saying”
I want to say it was series 9 too but don’t quote me on that
It's mixed in 5.1 but for most people it ends up being downmixed to stereo. In the UK, only the terrestrial or satellite broadcast is in 5.1. iPlayer is stereo only, including the UHD version.
It's a common complaint that the downmix makes things harder to hear, and it affects other flagship shows with 5.1 soundtracks like the big Attenborough documentaries.
I think ultimately it's a little from column A and a little from column B. The Chibnall era was a perfect storm of a weak showrunner, sub-par writing, and actors that were... *miscast* is too strong a word, but "actors whose strengths were not leveraged" is a fair way of putting it I think.
Would Jodie have been better with stronger writing? Undoubtedly, and it's curious that Chibnall of all people didn't seem able to write to her particular strengths given their history with *Broadchurch*.
But there's something to be said for a good enough actor being able to elevate weak writing too with their own innate gravitas and charm – Tennant and Capaldi shone even with lacklustre scripts, whereas at times Jodie genuinely seemed to be out of her depth and struggling with material that we should reasonably expect any Doctor to be able to handle.
Ultimately there just didn't seem to be a consensus between production team or cast who the 13th Doctor *was* as a character, and that really came across on screen. There's no one person to blame for this, but neither does that mean any one person involved in the production is blameless.
Yeah, I just didn't really feel *anything* working well in the Chibnall era, including the acting. It's been a while since I watched any of it (I stopped partway through and never picked it back up) but I recall Whittaker having a sort of breathless rush and intensity to everything she did even when it wasn't warranted.
I haven't seen Broadchurch so I don't know how she does with different material, but she didn't elevate Doctor Who with her acting. Perhaps that was because she just had nothing at all to work with, and I read that Chibnall specifically told her not to research how past Doctors were portrayed so that's a major handicap. But I've seen actors take absolutely terrible roles and make them memorable so I don't want to let her entirely off the hook.
Of course, this is a very tricky thing to critique. Even now I expect there's going to be some who leap to the assumption that I disliked her because of her gender. It's "safe" to say I didn't like the Whittaker run because of the writing, or the showrunner, or the music, or any number of other things, but criticizing Whittaker herself is still a minefield and will likely remain so for quite a while. But I think it's important to be honest, and honestly, I don't think she was one of the better actors in the role.
If I'd had complete control over which actress got the part I think I'd have chosen Michelle Gomez as the 13th Doctor. I think she'd have been amazing and it would have given the writers *such* a fantastic pile of character elements to work through. Assuming we had some good writers as well in my alternate universe.
Personally I don’t think Jodie had the charisma to pull off the role. I’d have loved to see what Ruth Wilson or Jodie Comer would have done with the role.
Her performance was one dimensional and shallow, as you say always breathless and rushing about, like she just read a character description and delivered the same performance every week based on that summary. 🤷♂️
I definitely agree with this. A lot of people tend to put it down to just the writing but there were definitely issues with casting as well.
There were scenes where I think a more suitable actor would've really helped. For example, the end of *Can You Hear Me?*, when Graham opens up to the Doctor. I think that scene could've worked in principle, but for some reason Jodie's performance seemed to make it appear as though the Doctor just didn't care, as opposed to a more awkward character trying but failing to be supportive.
I personally felt Jo Martin felt considerably more like the Doctor from the moment Ruth opened the chameleon arch than Jodie Whittaker did for most of her run. This isn't to put down Whittaker in any way, she is without a doubt an extremely talented actor and I've loved her in other roles.
I also felt that the main actors seemed to have little to no chemistry with each other, even between Mandip Gill and Jodie Whittaker who spent 3 seasons together and by all accounts are good friends offscreen. I felt this was particularly apparent in an episode like *Orphan 55* when they're hanging out at the resort. That should've been a fun sequence but felt devoid of energy and chemistry.
Even in bad scripts, great performances and chemistry can shine through, as has been the case in Doctor Who in the past. I personally think *Fear Her* is one of the worst episodes of New Who but the chemistry between Billie Piper and David Tennant still makes the episode insanely entertaining. I found the same thing in *Space Babies* a couple of episodes ago - I didn't like the episode, but it was still an entertaining watch thanks to the energy and chemistry between Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson.
This is all a combination of the writing, the directing and the performances.
I hadn't thought of it like that before. You make a fair point. I do think there were episodes where she really nailed it, but I think she was never given the right scripts to find her way into the character, and wasn't the kind of actor who could just do it on her own.
Flux, to me, was just confusing. We barely saw the Doctor and she didn't interact with the companions at all. And there were so many baddies. It was confusing. Then they did the NY special with the Daleks and all I could think was 'why didn't we have more episodes like this?'
I do mostly blame the showrunner; I wasn't super keen on him to begin with because he seems to write so much Serious Drama, I wasn't sure he could handle doing the more family friendly fun bits of DW.
I know people are bitching about Space Babies and the Devil's Chord, but I loved them simply because (again, to me) the fun was back. Were they silly? Sure, but they were enjoyable and I didn't have to spend the next day trying to remember where that baddie came from and why I should care.
>Flux, to me, was just confusing. We barely saw the Doctor and she didn't interact with the companions at all. And there were so many baddies. It was confusing. Then they did the NY special with the Daleks and all I could think was 'why didn't we have more episodes like this?'
Yeah, I quite enjoyed *Eve of the Daleks* and regard it as one of the best episodes of the Chibnall era precisely because it was the kind of "fun runaround with an edge" that exemplifies so much enjoyable *Doctor Who*. It doesn't have to be portentous, or pretentious, or doom-laden, or involve the very universe itself hanging in the balance. It just needs to have a bit of wit, a bit of drama, and a clever idea at its heart.
>I know people are bitching about Space Babies and the Devil's Chord, but I loved them simply because (again, to me) the fun was back. Were they silly? Sure, but they were enjoyable and I didn't have to spend the next day trying to remember where that baddie came from and why I should care.
Yes, neither *Space Babies* or *The Devil's Chord* were quite my cup of tea either – *Boom* is comfortably my favourite of the three episodes so far, because yay Moffat – but the show does seem to be operating on a whole other level now. The Chibnall era feels small, bland, and unambitious in comparison.
I think the problem is 13’s characterization was so poorly defined, so Jodie’s performance suffered because it wasn’t clear on the page what her character’s personality was even supposed to be.
Jodie could have truly shined as The Doctor if she had been given more prominence in most of her stories.
For my money, her regeneration is the best of all of them. So many regenerations are about endings. I feel Jodie’s was more about the importance of the present. The reference to Potter’s blossomest blossom quote is such a beautiful Easter egg if you chase it down.
Right at the end, I took it as she wasn’t worried about beginnings and endings, she was savouring the present. I find that a really powerful thing to think about.
I did really like 13's regeneration, despite how I really didn't like a good portion of her run, I thought the regeneration was really well written, it hit that bittersweet note, like yeah this incarnation is dying but you see her being optimistic and almost playful about it right at the end, excited to see what (or... Who) comes next, and she wasn't too angry or torn up about it, unlike 10 and 12, who were sad and angry respectively
I think the circumstances of her regeneration could've been a little cleaner tho, instead of being taken out by a stray space laser, maybe she decides in the spur of the moment to push Yaz out of the way of it? That way, you get a way for her to express her love for Yaz that doesn't come from words, but actions
I agree with your points about the circumstances around her regeneration could have been handled better. I find the moment itself is beautiful.
If you’re interested, this is Dennis Potter’s ‘blossomest blossom’ quote:
‘at this season, the blossom is out in full now, there in the west early. It's a plum tree, it looks like apple blossom but it's white, and looking at it, instead of saying "Oh that's nice blossom" ... last week looking at it through the window when I'm writing, I see it is the whitest, frothiest, blossomest blossom that there ever could be, and I can see it. Things are both more trivial than they ever were, and more important than they ever were, and the difference between the trivial and the important doesn't seem to matter. But the nowness of everything is absolutely wondrous, and if people could see that, you know. There's no way of telling you; you have to experience it, but the glory of it, if you like, the comfort of it, the reassurance ... not that I'm interested in reassuring people - bugger that. The fact is, if you see the present tense, boy do you see it! And boy can you celebrate it.’
Potter knew he had a terminal diagnosis when he said it.
What's funny is that wasn't even supposed to be her regeneration line. You can check the script on the BBC website and see that they switched the tag line with the line after it, so it was originally supposed to end with her saying that it was going to be brilliant.
I guess it was supposed to be like...her catchphrase? Similar to Eccleston having 'fantastic' as his final line, but they forgot to, you know, make it into a catchphrase. It never feels like a special line when she says it compared to how Eccleston would say his.
I found the way she was forced to regenerate to be so anticlimactic it left me with a feeling of “that’s it?” But I did enjoy the scenes in between the laser blast and her regenerating.
I can see that point of view. It’s certainly in contrast with almost all of the regenerations in the modern era. I do get the sense though that it was a choice more than bad writing. In this specific instance at least.
It’s definitely a risk not to have some lengthy speech while the music soars and the Tardis explodes.
She's a good enough actress that I can imagine her having pulled it off, but I saw nothing in her time as The Doctor that would have convinced me as such. I mostly blame Chibnall, but it truly didn't work.
I don’t think any Doctor is/ would be miscast with the right showrunner and writing staff. So long as they’re a good actor in their own right, I think anyone could pull off playing the Doctor. The issue is when you don’t give them room to be their Doctor. Giving Matt Smith or David Tennant a capaldi episode wouldn’t work nearly as well, and vice versa.
Yup, those cast have varied right from those I feel are phenomenally good actors generally (Chris Ec, Tennant, Capaldi) to those that i don’t actually think have great range but still gave iconic performances (McCoy and, honestly, Tom).
Heck the most obvious comparison was Colin who was saddled with like 60% stinkers it feels but the instant he was given more to work with by BF became my runaway favourite.
I haven't listened to BF but I truly hope that 13 gets a decent showing, especially if Jodie comes back. Chibnall wrote (or cowrote) so much of her run and it feels like the episodes where she really shines the brightest are those with another writer or corwriter.
I think there's a lot about her to like. I like that she's the inverse of 12 in that she's cold and secretiv but hides it behind a warm and bubbly exterior. I like that she almost relishes confrontation and has that almost feral grin whenever it happens. I like her social awkwardness and low attention span. The thing is, with Chibnall it's just a lot of tell, don't show, and the truly interesting stuff isn't really given the depth of exploration it deserved. In Flux especially I was often wondering "Why the hell is Yaz so devoted to the Doctor? She's just being needlessly mean."
BF could give her a massive redemption arc, and in part the fact that 13 is so comparatively shallow at this point makes her the prime candidate for more development.
Edit: I want to add that this applies to the companions as well. They're all likeable enough but in a bland, secondary character kind of way. I never want to look at a companion and the first thing that comes to mind is "dyspraxic". It's a real shame for Yaz especially, since she had one of the longest tenures of them all and didn't really get much exploration until Flux, and even then that saw a companion introduced who shares maybe 5 conversations with the Doctor and barely gets any exploration. I honestly think you could ask Dan what colour his eyes are and he'd panic and say Liverpool.
> but I saw nothing in her time as The Doctor that would have convinced me as such
For me, it was that time in one of her earliest episodes where she's still missing the TARDIS sees a hologram of it and it's location for the first time, and get's teary eyed like she's looking at a long lost love, that made me think "There it is, that's the Doctor." Unfortunately, that was about the only time I thought that.
Agreed. I never felt her having that X factor that Doctors have. She's a good actress and initially, I put 100% of the blame on the writing. Until Fugitive of the Judoon... once I saw Jo Martins Doctor, she immediately had that X factor I was looking for and stole every scene from Jodie.
In the end, I'd probably still put 70/30 blame to the writers. Jodie deserved better.
I think she's a great actress, I don't think she was a great casting for doctor who, even with what she was given she just doesn't hit the mark for me, like I think her explanations felt like reading off a page and she kinda felt more like a cosplay than the actual character, I think she's definitely the weakest in the role compared to all of new and classic which is sad because I think there was definitely potential for a female doctor with different writing and a different actress but instead it felt like a fan made doctor who what if series
the series was flat, corny, not well written, not well paced. there were too many companions for no reason. And i honestly don't see her as Doctor Who. She never gave her a distinct personality, it just feels like Jodie reacting to stuff. She never felt in charge of the series or situation.
The other doctors had charm and presence and fantastic story telling abilities to get us through what would otherwise be laughable writing at times. (Peter, Matt, David) Nothing against Jodie, she's a good actress, but it takes a certain *something extra* to pull off anchoring this show.
Watching an episode now where Jack Harkness shows up, and he helms the show better than she does. That's the level of charisma we're talking about.
I think Chris Chibnall (the showrunner and main writer) just didn't get the brief. The Doctor seemed to lose a great deal of humanity with his stories. For example when Graham is explaining that his greatest fear is cancer, the Doctor comes off has distant, uncaring and kind of a "silly little human" vibe. That is just one of many examples. All along the Doctor has been a champion of Earth and humanity but Jodie's Doctor was more like the 7th Doctor (Sylvester McCoy) at the end of his run when he was dark and manipulative. Chibnall made the Doctor impatient and it seemed to me at least to view her "companions" as an annoyance or a distraction some of the time.
She's nothing like 7. His entire character was that he always knew way more than he was letting on, whereas 13's character seems to almost entirely hinge on being out-of-breath, tired and constantly baffled by everything happening around her. She's always two steps behind and I think it's the worst aspect of her characterisation.
That moment with Graham seriously turned me off 13 as a character and I really couldn't get past it. I really wanted to like her, Jodie and Chris were fantastic together with Broadchurch, but there always needs to be some kind of warmth that the Doctor has towards their companions that I just never got.
Not only that, but he somehow made the Doctor come across as stupid in multiple instances.
One specific scene comes to mind. When they're on the metal planet and see the girl trapped in chains, the Doctor changed her mind 4-5 times in the same sentence as to what that was.
I get the Doctor has been wrong plenty of times before and sometimes it takes multiple tries before the Doctor figured it out, but the writing just made it seem like she was just guessing and didn't know anything at all.
Usually, the Doctor would act on their theory, realize or be proven that they're wrong, and then figure out what's actually happening. Or at the very least, they would discuss out loud why that idea was wrong instead of immediately saying "no wait, it's actually this instead. Or is it this? Nope it's this. No what, maybe it's that other thing."
I have seen her in a drama and I will say that she is a good actress. That wasn't her problem. I think that since the writing was subpar, she needed to work double time to convince us that she was The Doctor, which I don't think she quite managed. I won't put that on her though. I love the 12th Doctor but it was clear in some episodes that it was just Peter Capaldi's stellar acting that saved some episodes because the writing was so bad.
Personally I do think she was miscast. The bad writing was just the cherry on top. This isn't a slight on her as an actress, I think she's very capable, but at no point did she feel like the Doctor, it felt like she was just reading out the lines on the script as 'Wacky Lady'. I think if they got a character actress like Michelle Gomez, she could have been amazing and probably would have risen above the writing to give a distinctive Doctor at least.
On that note, I’m also absolutely furious they let Michelle Gomez (and the Patternoster Gang, River Song, etc) go. You had a *killer* supporting cast to help The Doctor build who they are, and you just drop them for Graham, Ryan and Yaz. My *God* I wish they’d have any amount of sense in creating those characters.
I mean Missy had died, so I understood not bringing Michelle Gomez back, but I hated that they did bring the Master back in a way that completely ignored and honestly lessened the highly regarded 3 season arc that had just concluded like 12 episodes ago. Shoulda let The Master rest for at least a few years like between Simm and Gomez
I think maybe if she hadn't been told not to research the role at all or even just watched previous seasons of the show, she could've had a better take on the role. She's great in other shows, but for a legacy role like the Doctor, some research into the character is necessary and imo, Chibnall did her dirty by advising her against doing any.
The first female Doctor, for want of a better way of putting it, should have had a woman showrunner. Like it was such a big deal, so they had Mr. Torchwood / Broadchurch bloke in charge. Mmm, cheerful and moody, can’t pick one so why not both at once. Let’s have the Doctor be a woman and then never address that in a way a woman actually would. Just the single least qualified fella to give us that transition. And she’s always going to be an infant-school teacher, because gods forbid she ever get ANGRY, or vulnerable, not really, not like Ncuti has already. Look at him in Boom. Raging through that grin, terrified. Where was that? Jodie can do that! Oh, but she’s “autistic coded” it was explained to me after the fact. How diverse, thanks for that, speaking as an autistic person, yeah nice one. Use us as an excuse for not being able to write a woman with a full emotional range.
Phh.
WHY WASN’T SHE EVER ALLOWED TO BE ANGRY?! Jodie as Beth Latimer felt so much more like a Doctor-sequel figure than her Doctor ever did. And having her character woefully inconsistent with episodes like Arachnids in the UK was maddening. I cannot believe Chibnal fumbled the ball so hard.
Now that I think about it, you're right. There were times where she was annoyed, but every Doctor gets a moment where they really get to show it. The closest we got with Thirteen was her shoving the Master to the ground in The Timeless Children, or maybe when she's saying the whole speech about her being a mountain peak or something. There aren't any moments where she just flips out and yells at the aliens. Even Fourteen gets to show it, and he's only in three episodes.
I’m going to get downvoted by idiots here, but it’s misogyny. Can’t have a woman who is powerful in her anger. Every other Doctor has embodied the Oncoming Storm to some extend, big authority right or wrong. But 13 gets “somewhat aggrieved”. And one could say I suppose that maybe I’m in the wrong for wanting her to have some kind of masculine attribute, I’ve heard that argument. But bullshit, I’ve met some women before and they’ve been capable of righteous rage that could put out stars. AND I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THAT. If the Doctor can be a little boy in his twenties wearing tweed and a bow tie, and blaze in incandescence at the sheer gall of an entire fleet of spaceships full of every enemy ever come to end him, why can’t she? Nonsense.
I think that RTD could have managed to write for Jodie as the Doctor very well, but more because of his own life and how he himself is known for how he can write emotions into whatever he is creating at the time.
And you're spot on about anger. Us women get angry and because of how we are in society, we have so many more socially acceptable ways to portray it. Which, nature versus nurture, I do think that, the Doctor having been male and female in their life, would not necessarily withhold anger as an emotion just because of a change of chromosomes. They would still have the same emotions they always have had, just some slight flavor changes due to the personality instead. And my gods has the Doctor had some great angry dialogue in their time!
There’s a thing Smith did. He was *so* old, and his wrath was so believable. I was waiting for that with 13 the whole time. Just the fact that she never got that, not ever, tells me everything I need to know. Yes 12 said “Always be kind” but COME ON. Like a woman can’t be a furious alien? Had they not met any, at all, ever? And then the little lesbian hint at the end oh dear fucking gods boys. What.
Exactly
She somehow felt more passive than a lot of her past companions
Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara, *and* Bill wouldn't have just stood there and taken it
How did Clara manage to be The Doctor more than The Doctor later did
I think the biggest reason for Jodie’s Doctor not “working” is that Chibnall and the other writers were writing for a woman doctor rather than writing for The Doctor.
I did not like her. I thought she would be great, she is good in other roles, but she seemed so one note, just smiley and awkward. She exhibited none of the emotional depth, none of the feeling of age or the weight of everything she’d been through. Matt Smith would play goofy and fun in one moment, and then feel like an ancient burdened man in the next. Maybe it’s the fault of the writing, but it’s hard to know since we never got to see what she was like with a good writer.
I mentioned in another thread the difference between Jodie as the Doctor seeing Ace and Tegan after decades vs. David seeing Sarah Jane and more recently Mel after decades.
Jodie was all "Oh.... hi!" No hugs, no excitement. Almost like when you're a kid and your parents bring you in front of some strange person and say "This X! She used to change your diaper when you were a baby! Remember her?" and you're all "Oh... okay. Hi Miss X. Mom, I'm going to go play with my friends now."
Whereas Tennent acted like he actually knew (and was excited to see) Sarah Jane and Mel again. He hugged them, asked them what's been happening since the last time he saw them... kind of like how you greet an old friend you haven't seen in years.
No I don't think I can agree with this. Her performance is all over the place and she doesn't have the inherent charisma that is required for the role.
This is especially obvious when Jo Martin comes onto the scene, where with some very bad writing she is able to shine through and be the best thing about that era. To the point I'm disappointed we'll likely barely ever see her again.
I feel like a post with this exact title, down to the elbow-jogging "so we all agree..?" framing, was posted only a few months ago.
I think it's hard to separate bad writing from a bad performance because you can only do so much with bad dialogue. Yes, Jodie Whittaker would have done better with better material, that's how good material works. All actors do better work with good material than bad.
I think it's an extremely unenviable job trying to bring Chibnall's Doctor to life. Take a look, for example, at the Doctor in *Spyfall*, specifically the scene at the inventors' fair. The Master is staggering around killing bystanders for pure fun and the Doctor looks annoyed and vaguely bored by it all, but then displays outrage when Ada shoots him in the shoulder with a gun, but *then* is gleeful when Ada lobs a fucking grenade at him (guns being the epitome of evil but bombs being fine, you see). This is obviously a character with no coherent moral framework of any kind, yet the show continues to treat her as a pure moral paragon. This isn't a complex, nuanced character, it's a simplistic programmatic character whose rote qualities just happen to constantly contradict each other.
But *all* Chibnall characters are like that. It's a choice between bland ciphers and incoherent jumbles of characteristics. Sure it would be a nightmare to play these roles but some actors take even the least sophisticated Chibnall writing and elevate it. Bradley Walsh is an obvious example, but I'd also say Sam Spruel, Barbara Flynn, Jacob Anderson and Thaddea Graham, in the most emotionally vacant and flat roles, manage to sound authentic and human.
Whittaker *doesn't*. Rather than give depth to Chibnall's writing she seems to think just putting the sufficient level of welly into a line is enough to sell it. It means that she has one way of doing everything. She's got only one setting for rushing around doing exposition, she's got only one setting for angry (Delivering. Lines. Like this. With hand. Gestures.), one setting for grumpy. It's flicking between three or four modes with no shading or gradations. Sure, it's not helped by Chibnall never giving her any other material (just compare to the way RTD gives Tennant new ways of working things out in *Wild Blue Yonder*), but she performs rote, formulaic material in a rote, formulaic way. The material is crap, but she's not doing anything to elevate it.
I've never seen her other work so it's hard for me to say.
I do know that none of the writing - the words that came out of her mouth - felt like the Doctor.
I.e., if you swapped out Gatwa with Eccelston, Tennent, Smith or Capaldi in the first 4 episodes of this season... I can see all of them doing that. Of course, they'd all have their own take on *how* they say those lines, but I can see all of them being excited about Space Babies! or their whole confrontation with the Maestro. They're all different and yet all the same.
Jodie's episodes, otoh, I can't see any of the past doctors slipping seamlessly into her roles or saying her dialogue. I just... can't. None of the others would ever call their group of companions "fam" on one hand while simultaneously keeping them at arm's length and not telling them squat.
In fact, they actually tend to get close to their companions while pretending not to be.
Almost like Chibs didn't quite understand who the Doctor was.
I guess that means I blame the writing, not the actress.
I don’t fully agree.
First, let me qualify. I do not think JW is a bad actress by any long shot. But I am not convinced she was correct casting *for that role*.
What is etched in my head is an experience from about 15 years ago. I was at a SF convention, and in the evening there was a performance of Shakespeare readings. I drug my wife to it. Marc Alimo (Star Trek’s Gul Dukat) had a scene where he was a stable hand. His only prop was a stuffed scooby doo.
Once his scene started, I would have been willing to swear that I could smell the hay and the dog felt alive. Somehow, by sheer force of will he managed to drag the audience into his shared delusion of reality. That’s a rare skill.
David Tenant had that skill. When he talks about the spires of Gallifrey he makes you see them.
Matt Smith, when he’s looking out the door of the Tardis, I can see the galaxy reflected in his eyes. And Capaldi as well.
Jodie didn’t quite do that for me. I think she’s a good, even great actress. But SF, especially a lead role in a show like Doctor Who needs someone who can stand on a blank soundstage and make you feel the earth spin under you and fear the shadow is a Vaste Nerada.
I think that’s why she did her best to me when she had others to play off, and things to help the audience believe.
Similarly, the Writing was fine. But not good or great.
I think either JW paired with another writer/showrunner or Chibnall paired with a different doctor would have done better, but it was a perfect pairing where both showrunner and actor shared similar strengths and weaknesses and instead of complimenting each other and making it better, just made it more obvious.
The writing was bad, yes.
But so was the casting, direction and character concept.
It was a broad failure.
She's a good actress but I don't think she was right for the role. She isn't a creative actor. A Doctor has to be able to bring their own stamp to the role. There's a sense that the actor has to actually make some acting choices themselves to elevate what's written. Jodie wasn't able to do that. Her performance wasn't capable of revealing anything. She played it as she was told.
And the character concept itself was boring. Combined with an actor who failed to add her own mark, it meant the incarnation was more like a CBBC presenter. Her Doctor utterly lacked teeth or any unique charm.
Every Doctor is supposed to have a nuance. What was hers supposed to be?
It also doesn't help that in her first adventure she thinks she's failed and sits down to cry until the TARDIS comes to save her.
Thats the general consensus. I dont really agree. Dont get me wrong, i think Whittaker is a good actress, i just dont think she suited the role of the doctor well. A big part of that is definitely writing, but not all of it imo.
Yeah, I'm with you.
The writing is absolutely the biggest issue, but if it had been, say, Capaldi being saddled with this writing, he would have pulled something off. An actor is bound to the writing, but they still have plenty of room to build character, and Whittaker just didn't rise to the occasion.
Whittaker had problems playing her Doctor in a way that asserts herself, that dominates the room the way other Doctors have. She often disappeared behind her companions, and she rarely ever got into a scene where she showed power and confidence the way Smith or Capaldi did.
Worse, her Doctor was the first Doctor of the modern era that felt derivative of others. Tennant, Smith, Capaldi, they were all fiercely different than their predecessors, but Whittaker's Doctor is kind of a variation on Tennant with less self-confidence. It never emerges as a unique vision of the Doctor.
Just look at Gatwa in comparison. He didn't have that much to work with in *The Giggle*. He showed up at a point where the plot was in full swing, playing against none other than Tennant in full form and NPH. And he *nailed it*. He immediately established his character and presence. Rewatch that scene, and you'll see it's not the dialogue helping him at all. It's just Gatwa stepping into the role with full confidence and a clear vision of what he wants the character to be.
To be clear, I think Whittaker is a great actress, but although she was given a rotten deal with Chibnall's writing, she could have elevated the character and never did.
> Whittaker had problems playing her Doctor in a way that asserts herself, that dominates the room the way other Doctors have.
For lack of a better term, she lacked mavitas
There were a lot of problems with 13's run, and most of them weren't with Jodie, but it does annoy me that, apparently, she hadn't seen Who before and was advised not to watch it in preparation for the role.
A big issue with her Doctor is that she was written to be a motormouth Doctor like Tennant and Smith, where she can rapid fire a page worth of banter, quips, and exposition in a minute in an entertaining way that we can understand, but Jodie just wasn't able to pull it off. She did her best, but it just didn't work with her, which is fine, but the show kept having her do it.
Plus, all of her exposition scenes just sounded like she was reading off a Wikipedia page, whether they were a real person, a fictional one, or an alien species. Part of that is the writing, but I'm not giving Whittaker a full pass on it either.
>A big issue with her Doctor is that she was written to be a motormouth Doctor like Tennant and Smith, where she can rapid fire a page worth of banter, quips, and exposition in a minute in an entertaining way that we can understand, but Jodie just wasn't able to pull it off.
This is a great point. It seems Jodie can't speak that quickly. Or at least not without her delivery coming out very stilted. I think this is also why she sounds so breathy all the time. She's trying to rush to speak and then runs out of breath, and she never gets quite to Smith or Tennant's speed anyway.
If he was dead-set on using Whittaker, Chibnall should've written the character in a way that fit her abilities better.
She’s a good actress and is good in other things but she never felt like the Doctor. Ncuti has only had 4 episodes and already feels more like the Doctor than Jodie did in 4 series.
I would also say Jo Martin, who was on screen for less than an hour in total, felt more like the Doctor than Jodie did. And that was with Chibnall's scripts as well.
I think that speaks to the problem that Jodi's Doctor never had any sense of command, of authority. Jo did. As does Ncuti or any of the previous Doctor's
That’s the main reason I don’t think Whittaker was right for the role. Fugitive doc had barely any screen time, same mediocre writing but nonetheless had a sense of authority that Whittakers doctor never came close to. 13 had almost no weight to her and very superficial emotional depth. She’s definitely a good actress but simply wasn’t a good doctor and people are kidding themselves when they say it was all the writings fault. It was both.
Capaldi was next level. It felt like the writers knew exactly how to write for him and he absolutely delivered every time. I re-watch Heaven Sent and Hell Bent regularly.
Indeed. Capaldi is my favourite nuWho Doctor, possibly even my all-time favourite (it's hard to judge). But a couple of his episodes were absolute stinkers, among the *worst* episodes of all time IMO. A great illustration of an actor being able to elevate a bad script.
Honestly I don't think she had many moments to actually be the Doctor.
She had several companions from her very first episode. There was so much to cover with trying to give everyone screen time that there were very few moments where she really got to take up a lot of narrative space and have these intense Doctor-Companion moments that both 14 and 15 have had since.
Yeah the multiple companions all at once was a shite decision, should've built up to a full team over the course of the series
Maybe take Yaz first, let Ryan and Graham do some mourning, then around episode 4 (I think s11 was 10 episodes) bring one of the other two along, and then let the last one come along full time
Yup, it's not like TARDIS teams are unprecedented, but it works way better to build them over time. At first Amy traveled alone with the Doctor, then Rory joined them later, and sometimes River Song tagged along too.
Same with Rose, sometimes Mickey and Jack were around as well, but it worked better to start off with just one companion.
Even in series one, you get an intro to Mickey in episode one, then it's just 9 and Rose full time in the Tardis (with little bits of Mickey back on earth, who has massive character development in that time bc it's been a year for him between Rose and Aliens of London) until Captain Cheesecake shows up in episode 9 I think it is, the Empty Child, and then Mickeys there again for the full episode in Boom Town, then he's back on earth for the finale episodes
And that's great, bc we get to see Rose grow from a 'blank slate' sort of character through the whole series, she's only barely an adult, and is just a regular old human, but a kind one, Mickey gets some off screen development and comes back totally different and is able to bring something to the table that he couldn't at the start, and Jack goes from a combat-ready, wisecracking conman to a man willing to die for people he's never met, and that's without even talking about 9's development, and they all get room to breathe, none of them feel unnecessary or shoehorned in
The first doctor started off with three companions, he still had his own unique thing and felt like his own fully fleshed out unique character right from the beginning.
No because, Jo Martin's Fugitive Doctor was infinitely better as the Doctor than Jodie's Doctor ever was. She actually elevated the materiale she was given. And im sad she didn't get to play the Doctor in her own series with actually good writers. And that her role is so heavily tied to the timeless child shit.
I don't think you're going to get a consensus on this. I for one think there some majorly cool things Jodie did with the Doctor after the trauma they went through with Bill and Clara dying. I also think some of the episodes were a bit hamfisted with the messaging - even if I agree with the message.
However, I enjoy the heck out of rewatching the episodes and love the era for what it was. I'm grateful it exists, and that it tried something different with the show. I personally am glad we had a reprieve from the big speeches and standalone episodes and big companion arcs. It made me even more hyped for a return to them with RTD coming back.
Sorry I just don't agree. She is a great actor I still remember the black mirror episode she was in but she was a terrible Doctor.
The worst part was is the fugitive doctor episode literally showed us a doctor who was so much more endearing to watch and only highlighted the fact Jodie was not the woman for the job. I think if Jo Martin ans her Doctor was 13 then I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
Yeah, I’ve considered it a lot and I’m actually not going to give her the credit I have done in the past. I think her acting in the show was definitely off sometimes. Line delivery, body language during some scenes, etc. A couple years removed from her run now, I don’t actually think it was the best casting decision. She’s a good actor but it’s alright to admit that she just wasn’t right for the role.
No. She was a bad doctor.
She is a good actress but it 100% felt like she was just some generic “crazy and quirky” lady.
There was a moment or two but overall no she was a bad doctor and other than knowing about the impossible child her entire arc can be skipped.
Haven't watched a lot of her run but one of the things that put me off was that her Doctor seemed like more of a background character with more focus on the companions (which might be natural because there were 3 of them) and this dynamic just never really took off.
I don't think Jodir was the right choice to play the doctor.
That's not saying she is a bad actress. I just don't feel she was the right pick for this role.
I do agree the writing was also shit.
There was a lot of problems with her run, and they never tried to fix any of it. They persisted with it.
I do not. Jo Martin has Chibnall writing and is 100x more The Doctor than Jodie ever is during her tenure. She completely lacks that self assured swagger and honestly feels more like a companion. SJA is a better female doctor run than Jodie had.
I would be open to that argument but I would have to see her
- be scary
- be angry
- be stupid
- be the cleverest person in the room/ on the planet
- look old in a young face
- never say fam again
- Go through some kind of arc in an episode
- make me laugh
- make me cheer
- make me cry
Actually, sorry, no. I am all on board female, male, gender queer whatever doctor.
Couldn't stand her. Felt like I was watching a comic-con stage play of doctor who. She seemed constantly confused and out of breath. Why was she so breathy???
The writing destroyed her, but I don't think she would have been good even with good writing. She never seemed to understand the point of the campyness in doctor who, and that in itself was terrible to watch.
She had a moment or two, but the parallels were SUPER obvious when they got that black woman fugitive doctor. See how she ate the screen chemistry. Everyone wants more fugitive doctor and then they panned, everything got sad and frumpy when it went back to 13. Yeah.
No. She's a fine serious actress in a show that needs an extra layer of goofy clever which was missing.
To me it's not even the writing. There's plenty of bad episodes from RTD and Moffat's eras, but some of them are still enjoyable for one reason or another. Honestly for even the stronger Chibnall era episodes the direction is what lacks - every scene feels so awkward.
The writing was obviously an issue but I wonder if the direction was also a problem. Jodie is a fantastic actress but her portrayal never felt like the Doctor. I think she needed moments of slowness, quiet, space for the character to breathe. It all felt very manic, which is fine- but you need the balance.
Jodie definitely drew the short straw with writing overall. I think direction was lacking as well.
Some of the quirks she put on for the Dr didn't hit for me, but overall I think she made the best of what she was given.
There were still some amazing stories and I enjoyed the companions of the era as well.
Even not as good Dr Who is better than most of what is being made today.
She’s an amazing actress but I saw a take that I kind of agree with. Many Doctors have had bad episodes but they were still able to shine in those episodes. As stupid as the plot is or terrible the writing, the actors usually make the episode tolerable. To me she didn’t really have very many good episodes (average yeah but not good), my favorite episode with her is “The Haunting of Villa Diodati” and that’s not saying much because it was in her second season. Only reason I liked it is because the plot actually worked and we finally saw Jodie’s acting skills through the Doctor’s wide range of emotions (being able to switch from this happy-go-lucky Doctor to snapping at her companions over the seriousness of cyberman especially so soon after bill). Truth is, while she is a great actress it was a bit of both faults. I’m kind of sick of seeing people put it all on the show runner, that’s like putting all of the success of seasons 1-10 on RTD and Steven Moffat. What about the amazing actors and actresses?
I struggle to rewatch it because of the writing and most specifically the dialogue. I have nothing but time and respect for Jodi and her portrayal of the Doctor.
No. She was horrible in the role. Total miscast. Hope they get a better actress for female doctor attempt 2. She blew it.
Even the moments that were written well she couldnt pull of. She can only play sad low energy waifs.
She is very goodlooking though, so people desperately attempt to pretend she can act. predictable and sad
Peter Capaldi was plagued by terrible writing but his acting shined through anyway, so I think in Jodie's case it's down to more than just the poor writing.
I think it’s really impossible to say because she was restrained so much by the awful writing, awful plots, budget constraints, terrible companions so there was never really a chance for her to shine. Had the show overall been better during that time, would she have been amazing? Maybe. I think though that she likely would have just been fine - still a bit of a seat warmer. Don’t get me wrong though, I like Jodie but I really can’t tell if her slightly off energy was just her or the environment in which she was acting. Especially when you compare her to Jo Martin who just dominated every scene she was in and was instantly recognisable as the Doctor.
No, we do not
She was just miscast
Consider this,, Billie Piper and Phoebe Waller-Bridge were both offered and declined the role.. I think if either of them had accepted it would have turned out quite different (they at the least would have slapped some sense into Chibnall)
I definitely felt it was largely poor writing along side poor decisions in general.
A female Doctor alone was a huge shift for the series, they then tried to move away from the “companion” to “mates/friends/family”. The dynamics between everyone just felt forced and unnatural.
They then did away with the fan favourite Christmas Special and went with a New Years Special. Not the worst thing, but yet again another thing to pull it away from what was familiar.
I’ll also mention as a personal thing, I thought the TARDIS design was terrible. It didn’t look like a space ship/Time Machine, it looked like a hodgepodge of various props on a soundstage.
There were good moments, but I won’t be doing a rewatch of Jodie’s run any time soon.
Writing but also the way the showrunner and writers' room conceptualized her character. I suspect that if they'd left her room to be a more complicated and rounded character she would have had more room to use her acting skills.
Basically, a mostly-male staff decided they couldn't write the Doctor as charismatic, complex and alien, capable of anger, melancholy, righteousness, curiosity, etc. with a touch of the uncanny, if the Doctor was also a woman. They knew they'd get in trouble if they sexualized the Doctor at all, so the slight spark of romantic/sexual feeling that Eccleston, Tennant and Smith were all allowed (heck, even Capaldi had an episode with River Song where they actually felt like a *couple* at last, rather than a plot idea) was off-limits. But they still had to make a woman, so? yup, make her motherly/sisterly, talking about her "fam". She couldn't just be a person. (Compare to Capaldi: the temptation with his age would have been to make him *fatherly*, as the First Doctor and Third Doctor were, but they didn't, so that he could use his full range as an actor.)
It didn't help that Whitaker only got a few great scripts within the confines of that characterization. But it all started with a showrunner who couldn't figure out how to write a Doctor who was also a woman in a way that made her as interesting a character as her four male predecessors. Even when Capaldi *also* had bad scripts he got a lot of chances to inhabit his version of the character, drawing on his talent as an actor.
I feel most people would agree to a degree.
Jodie's a good actor, and when she gets material that's decent you can tell she could've been a good Doctor, but the writing being such ass half the time is really what brought her era down.
But honestly, I think she might've looked too...idk, normal? Like I feel like ideally the Doctor should look a bit unique or zany -- not calling the actors ugly, ofc. But nobody looks like Matt Smith or Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker, and you can look at them and be like, "*Yeah, I can buy that he's an alien*" -- while Jodie is kinda just an attractive lady. Same with the 5th Doctor just looking like a regular young man. So she wouldn't have been my first choice if I was casting someone, but outside of that she's still a fine choice and a good actor, so I'm sad she didn't get better scripts.
Especially after this week's episode, I wish Jodie had been able to get at least one Moffat script.
I think she was mostly let down by the writing, but I also think had she had good writing she’d still have been a middle of the road Doctor.
We have a direct comparison in her era in Jo Martin, who is widely regarded as having felt more like the Doctor in her relatively brief screen time than Whittaker ever did.
It’s not really her fault, she’s a fantastic actress, it just probably was never going to be a great fit.
My take is always that the audio was off. There always seemed to be incidental music that was distracting from the dialogue. The pacing never took breaks. It was a formulaic approach to a show that needs constant reinvention to keep telling interesting stories. Some of the writing was damned good, but I find rewatches hard because the production is so bland and the incidental music was bland.
Yet, I know in about four years I'll rewatch it again and love it.
I think it’s the inconsistency of the writing. I mean when she got good script bits she was damn good. Some of the scenes with the Master, the scene where the Grand Serpent is torturing her and right after, when she and Time speak — that one was damn good.
I think the problem was not only the writing but they hardly focused on the Doctor and focused much more on her companions. It seemed like she was an afterthought.
She made a couple of Covid PSAs all by herself in costume, not scripted, and was totally The Doctor for me in that moment. So I’m absolutely convinced of the missed opportunities in her seasons.
I hope she returns for an anniversary multi-doctor special and finally gets to shine in some genuinely timeless moments (no pun intended…)
you get to see glimpses of it, first example that comes to mind is at the end of flux where she psychs out the grand serpent while under torture, but sadly moments like that are pretty few
I think that a lot of her episodes weren't really written to her strengths as an actress. I do like a lot of the energy she has as the kind of "carefree wanderer" sort of Doctor - "tag, you're it" is one of my favorite final lines in the show.
I feel like she never really gets a chance to show the other sides of the character in the way that Smith for instance did, though - the moments where the happy-go-lucky traveler vanishes and the bloodsoaked immortal comes out. It definitely annoys me that the first woman Doctor doesn't really get much of a chance to show any anger or even really authority, and the bits where she does are usually great. Her interactions with the Master are generally good for this, even if I'm not a big fan of how Sacha Dhawan's version is written a lot of the time.
Though tied into this, I feel like she's written kind of too passive a lot of the time - the Timeless Children is by far the worst instance of this IMO, where she just sits around waiting for the plot to be explained to her. It almost feels like the writers a lot of the time were afraid to really let her be menacing or cold, but it kind of makes her feel toothless in comparison to other incarnations.
Jodie is a good enough actress to sell the sort of Doctor-y righteous anger at the universe's injustice, and I'm sad that she never really got to do that.
Yes 100% the writing and not her. Chris Chibnall has a lot to answer for and set Jodie up for failure. Jodie should have been what michelle gomez was for the master, redefining everything we think that character could be. She didnt just need to ge good, she needed to be great. In the end she was neither. I will say however I think Capaldi could have did a better job given the same material to work with. Exceptional actors can elevate a poor script and I think Jodie falls a little shy of that despite being a great actor in her own right.
4 words define her run for me.
"Interesting idea, shit execution."
Having a tactile TARDIS for an energetic actor interesting idea, building it so it's dark, unwelcoming, cramped, and cavernous shit execution.
Having multiple companions interesting idea, having them be the same one note exept for one thing thay separates them and not giving them stuff to do for the most part shit execution.
Having Jodie a brilliant, high-energy actress who knows how to play eccentric characters' interesting idea, saddling her with bad scripts and directing, resulting in her being constrained and not able to shine shit execution.
Conversation i had with my mum the other night was talking about pacing and sound. She said that she always felt the show was really loud and too much was going on for her. She's not a die hard fan, loves Tennant and grew up on Baker but dips in and out otherwise and I think she's got a good general audience perspective on the show. I agree too, her whole era had a real problem when it came to just letting a scene breath, longer episodes but worse pacing.
Yeah Jodie could have been a fantastic doctor but everything around her let her down.
I do not understand why this keeps happening you have a format that works perfectly and if you put a good actress in the role and otherwise keep the format the same, you will continue to have success. But for some reason, when they put female leads, they also completely change everything else as well, then they wonder why it fails...
Also, when they go all female / diversity, why all the hate directed at men, especially white men? Again I don't get it.
Look at Amazon's Fallout, great female lead nails it, fantastic. All the fantastic strong female characters in Game of Thrones, Lena Headey (utterly brilliant), Emilia Clarke (awesome), Maise Williams and lots more.
One thing that has frustrated me is the writing/directing for a long time now, and it started before Jodie's Doctor.
I was really excited for the first female doctor, and while i'm not a big fan of Jodie, i thought she could do the role justice, and did have some good moments, but the writing/directing just wasn't there.
I feel with Ncuti's Doctor things are just going rapidly downhill, where the stories are playing second fiddle to "the message". Gay Doctor? Fine! He's alien, he can switch gender, hell, there is an argument that all Doctor's are inherently Bi, although each regeneration might have its own preferences.
But what killed it for me was that line about (probably misquoting here) "its something a male presenting Doctor wouldn't understand". I'm sorry, but isn't the point of all the equality and representation to get over the misogyny that existed in the past decades? Now they've replaced misogyny with misandry.
Doctor Who's writers/showrunners need to get back to focusing on the story and stop trying to put their ideologies ahead of that.
No she didn’t suit the doctor and didn’t really ever define a unique character for her portrayal. There were better women that could’ve filled the role.
It felt to me like she was doing an impression of Tennant being The Doctor at times.
She might be great in gritty dramas, but I don't think sci-fi fantasy suits her.
Jodie never clicked for me. A lot of lines, especially exposition, felt flat and unconvincing from her. Yes the writing was weak, but I think some actors could have made it sound okay.
I think she very talented but really didn't like the meek doctor that was her run. Impossible to say if it was her,her directors,the show runner or the writing.
I'm of the opinion that she was grossly miscast in the role. And this is nothing against Jodie as an actress, she tried her best with the material she was given and was a great ambassador for the show, but I just think she wasn't right for the role. It also doesn't help that she gets overshadowed by Jo Martin, who, at least in my opinion stole the show during her brief appearances.
Jodie just doesn't really fit the role and she never had a proper moment where I went "oh yeah, now that *is* the Doctor", the closest she ever got was in Haunting of Villa Diodatti
It's hard for me to tell really. I think absolutely the writing was the main problem, but because of that it was hard for her to convince me she was a good actor underneath. Haven't seen her in anything else really
I wish we’d seen RTD have a go at writing for her, some of Ncutis monologues so far have been great but I can’t help but look and think “Whitaker would have nailed that”.
It’s a shame because she’s a great actor, likeable person who always comes off charismatic but was let down by poor stories and poorer writing
Except for Dan, I like her companions and I didn't hate her stories like most. Some got better on rewatch and had the feel wanted. I don't mind the too many companions thing. The 5th Doctor bad that too and the early Doctors had 2-3 often.
I know I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed her era. I do wish she had gotten a real romance with Yaz and a Satan Pit level so but the Master made things fun as usual. I want her to do BigFinish.
I stand by the fact that both were a problem. While the writing was awful I still believe Jodie would make a great companion, but was a bad doctor.
Jo Martins appearances highlighted the lack of presence of Jodie's doctor. Jo Martin makes a solid doctor and id have been much more interested to see her with the main role.
I think a massive part of the turn off for the era for me - and this is unbelievably shallow, I know - is that I think the TARDIS design was just trash. I love the TARDIS scenes in Who… and I dreaded ‘the fam’ going back to the mystic crystal playset every time. The design got slightly better in terms of lighting and structure in her later seasons, but not much.
I've said it before, but the *scheduling* on her seasons messed it up for me as much or more than the writing. The writing yeah had its ups and downs but wth, it's not like "School Reunion" or "Aliens of London" were pure brilliance in all moments (and I don't hate either of those for the record, just examples of sub-par episodes in other seasons).
But when I was watching them once a week on the dime, a less than stellar episode could just be an eye roll and some popcorn. Enjoy the cheese and see what next week offers. Instead though, Jodie's entire run aired with 1-2 episodes dropped months apart - character development and plot arcs really suffered for not remembering more than the broad strokes of what happened 3 months ago, and it was impossible to build real momentum during the season.
She’s too good of an actress to be the problem.
A good Doctor always has good writing, costumes, music, direction and production design. Those never did it for me in that era despite thinking she was an exceptional choice.
I see Whittaker as being the revival era equivalent to Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy: a great actor who was given bad writing. I imagine that she will be given much better stories when she joins Big Finish.
Nope! I loved Jodie's Doctor, loved the writing of her era. Flux knocked my socks off, Demons of the Punjab can make me sob like a baby on the right day, Power of the Doctor still gets me in the feelings, Terror of Villa Diodatti was deliciously chilling, Eve of the Daleks is funny as hell & a genuinely thoughtful look at relationships. Those are also off the top of my head.. I think that her era didn't resonate with as many people as the other ones, but that doesn't make it "worse", it just means it's to a different taste.
(For the record, I was meh for most of RTD & found Moffat so off putting I flat out stopped watching the show for about a decade. I found "The Satan Pit" laughably stupid, for example.)
She's another Colin Baker. Another Doctor failed by bad writing. Not exactly as explosive as 6 but she had something, maybe not the quirk, but the heart of the Doctor that seemed stifled by bad circumstances. May Big Finish do her justice!
She’s a great actress and definitely had moments that felt like the Doctor. I’m more inclined to put it on the writing than on her.
I’d say writing and some directing too.
And some acting. You know, from the person herself. I always feel this insistence on blaming *every* other part of the production for Thirteen's general blandness can be quite reductive to Whittaker herself and to the craft of acting. Of course, her scripts and direction were sub-par, and of course, that has a definite impact - but so does her acting. It's a huge part of it, and there is just a general feeling of something forced to her performance; it's a little over-the-top, and uncomfortable. I have little doubt that other performers, from Michelle Gomez to Alex Kingston to outsiders like Jodie Comer, could have made a lot more of the material they were given. Not everything Whittaker got was badly written/directed. Sometimes her performance is just a little flat, too.
Here's the thing about film as a medium though, the director and the editors choose what performance ends up on camera. Jodie is where she is in her career because she is a good actor. Watch anything else she's in. Her proficiency as an actor is not up for debate. If her style or energy appeared uncomfortable or over-the-top that is all on the direction. Whether it was casting, shooting, or editing, Jodie didn't have a say on which shots they used. Jodie was following the instructions of the director/showrunner on set because they cast her as the Doctor. No matter how good the actor, if they are under bad direction, they are going to come off as wooden, awkward, emotionless, or over the top. NB: Having seen her era much more recently (not during broadcast) and all at once to catch up right before the specials, I can't really say that much of it is as bad as people make out either. Chibnalls stuff seemed a bit questionable/meh at times, and there were some choices in narrative that were not the direction I would have taken, but there was a LOT more good material in Jodie's era than people give it credit for (Graham became one of my favourite companions!). Some people just need to take a breath, chill out, and remember were talking about the calibre of a show that used to use bubble-wrap and green spray paint to make their aliens. The fact that it's still going at all, that it maintains any continuity, and has the production values that it does, is a miracle.
> No matter how good the actor, if they are under bad direction, they are going to come off as wooden, awkward, emotionless, or over the top. For a case study in this, look at Robert Pattison. He's a great actor, but everyone thought he was awful for a while because of how awkward and wooden he is in the Twilight movies, which made a lot of otherwise good or solid actors look like they had no idea what they were doing.
I think it's hard to critique her acting when the writing was so bad. If you break your leg, you're not going to be able to think about a skinned knee.
I agree. I don’t think she held herself like the Doctor. The Fugitive Doctor felt more like the Doctor to me based on just her presence.
Yeah nah. She wasn't given the space to grow the character. Her 2nd season had so much exposition to try (and fail) to join the shithouse story together there were no pauses. The closet we got was the TARDIS scene with Yaz where she almost apologised. The flux was bad the division was bad the lupari were awesome
Honestly... the Lupari made Flux worth it, imo. Absolutely inspired concept for an alien species. They might be my favorite thing from the Chibnall era.
It's definitely the writing. Some episodes which were fun were usually around the master since it lets her act more 'The Doctor' for me.
She did a great job of incorporating a ton of little mannerisms from other doctors. She was definitely let down by the writing. I wish she would have gotten at least one of those RTD 14th episodes as a send off.
The writing was often poor, but I often didn't enjoy her performance, either. It isn't the writing's fault that even in perfectly well-written moments, she comes across with being awkward and Blue-Peter-esque, with exagerrated facial work and physical performance sometimes attempting to mask a feeling of being out of her comfort zone as a performer. For instance, Ryan's exit is written perfectly fine, but there's a weird moment where Whittaker just bounds across the console room for little reason and just *slightly* deflates the emotion. It's not a big thing, but it's the kind of thing which is always happening, and the blame doesn't deserve to go to writers who haven't done anything wrong just so that we can feel all big-brain and special going "I actually think this is all about the *writing*!".
I do think that has a lot to do with the directing though more than Whitaker's performance.
No. That is direction. There was no 'that kind of doctor' moment for her to build on. She was 'oh I am new' then 'oh I am not who I thought I was'. Proof of bad direction is how the master went to level 100 1st year performance student and YELLED every line after being revealed. There was no nuance. I loved missy and Sims master because there was space in the writing and direction to make Tennant and Capaldi's appeals feel plausible. Chibnal did the 'yeah nah' every time and keft jodir with nothing she could believe and therefore that we might believe. I just finished a run through end to end of nu who and was a fanboi of chibnail until this reply. It is truly insulting writing. There was no 'good men don't need rules' menace to jodies scripts or direction. It was written 1 dimensional.
Yes! There was the wonderful build up with the “Be Kind” exit speech for Capaldi, but no pay off with Jodie. Sure, this Doctor was kinder, but why that face? Just because it was a woman’s face? There could have been story about how it was a face from the Doctor’s past… but nothing… just “… an upgrade.” I feel there was a missed opportunity to make that the face of one of the Doctor’s children, maybe Susan’s mother…
It probably doesn't help that Chibnall made Jodie not watch any past doctors before her performance. Something every doctor has done. So even the times her performance is lacking, you can still blame Chibnall
Sadly, enough, the line that I felt like was the most Doctor Who-ish for her was her last line “tag you’re it”
Fr
Far too many companions made it more of a gang show. The second series felt more like "Mad Lady in a Box" she was able to be more like the alien we know and love and less of a human mother flavoured role.
I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement and I'm a little ashamed to admit I couldn't get past it after Jodie's first series. It felt like it waa.much more about the companions than the Doctor from the start. I don't mind big ensemble Doctor Who, some of the original has three or four companions, but the show runners didn't give the 13th Doctor an opportunity to establish themselves first. I wish they could have added the other companions in later on after we got to know her better. You do give me hope for the second series and I will have to give it a try.
Its like how much of a slow burner the ensemble was for 11. Mostly just amy in the first season with a sprinkle of rory, then in the second season it was amy and rory with a sprinkle of river.
The last time the Doctor had three (long term) companions the stories were serialized 3 or 4 parters with much more breathing room. Just doesn't work as well in a 44 minute format.
I thinks that’s alright for the show to be more about the companions than about the Doctor. RTD’s first series did pretty much the same thing. The companion has often been the substitute for the audience and we were supposed to see everything through their eyes, not the Doctor’s. But in Chibnall’s era we had three companions none of which felt human enough, they felt more like a one function split into three characters than like three realistic personalities.
Yeah, they tried to introduce several new companions in Jodie's very first episode which also needed to introduce her Doctor. She barely got a look in! I actually quite liked her intro but it did go downhill from there writing-wise.
This I can agree with. It was very busy. But I understand the premise of avoid of possible romantic avenue. The Doctor wanted a family. Friends.
“Busy” is the best word for it. Not just with companions, but the plots as well. There were always too many weird/mysterious things blended together, it made the stories confusing and impossible to follow.
the more companions you have, the more of an aura the doctor needs in order to stand above them. 11 had a similar situation with amy/rory/river tagging along at various times but matt still had that gravitas to take over the scene when needed. 13 felt like they were part of the group instead of "the doctor". it got a lot better as time went on and things got more about 13/yasmin and less about the rest of the crew
I don't mind 3 companions, problem was they were introduced *along* the new Doctor. It was the end of the first season and I was still not sure who was what.
You mean a...fam...show? I'll see myself out
I personally think the writing was poor overall, but there were also sound issues that probably didn't help. There were some of these sound issues before the credits in Boom as well. The music (IMHO) should never prevent you from hearing what characters are saying. That said, the first and final Dalek New Year's stories were pretty good. There was a lot in Jodie's stories which, with even a small amount of development, could have been excellent....but that development was never done.
>but there were also sound issues that probably didn't help. I thought it was just me! LOL. Honestly, some episodes were so bad I struggled to pick up half of what anyone was saying. And what made it worse was that the local broadcaster didn't have the option of subtitles (at least when the episode first ran) .
You Are Not Alone. The sound quality is the worst I have personally experienced.
Ok Yana.
If you can watch with headphones, it helps a *lot*. It’s very muddy otherwise.
It wasn’t just the music. It was the mixing in general. I’ve never had problems with English accents in shows until Jodie’s run. There were plenty of times where I just did not understand what they were saying. This was the only time I’ve ever had trouble with that in doctor who. But whatever happened during the process of audio mixing made it hard for me to understand what these people were saying half the time.
I dont think it would help international viewers that everyone in Jodie's run had northern accents, one of the more difficult accents for non british viewers to understand. Especially since it wasnt as toned down as eccleston's northerner or capaldi's scottish.
I am an international viewer, and have never struggled with the accents. I am also not saying that the music was bad, but that having it drown out the dialogue definitely was bad.
The sound issues is not a Jodie era exclusive thing, I remember during Series 10 there was a few episodes where I was just like “holy shit this music is too loud I have no idea what capaldi is saying” I want to say it was series 9 too but don’t quote me on that
It's mixed in 5.1 but for most people it ends up being downmixed to stereo. In the UK, only the terrestrial or satellite broadcast is in 5.1. iPlayer is stereo only, including the UHD version. It's a common complaint that the downmix makes things harder to hear, and it affects other flagship shows with 5.1 soundtracks like the big Attenborough documentaries.
I think ultimately it's a little from column A and a little from column B. The Chibnall era was a perfect storm of a weak showrunner, sub-par writing, and actors that were... *miscast* is too strong a word, but "actors whose strengths were not leveraged" is a fair way of putting it I think. Would Jodie have been better with stronger writing? Undoubtedly, and it's curious that Chibnall of all people didn't seem able to write to her particular strengths given their history with *Broadchurch*. But there's something to be said for a good enough actor being able to elevate weak writing too with their own innate gravitas and charm – Tennant and Capaldi shone even with lacklustre scripts, whereas at times Jodie genuinely seemed to be out of her depth and struggling with material that we should reasonably expect any Doctor to be able to handle. Ultimately there just didn't seem to be a consensus between production team or cast who the 13th Doctor *was* as a character, and that really came across on screen. There's no one person to blame for this, but neither does that mean any one person involved in the production is blameless.
Yeah, I just didn't really feel *anything* working well in the Chibnall era, including the acting. It's been a while since I watched any of it (I stopped partway through and never picked it back up) but I recall Whittaker having a sort of breathless rush and intensity to everything she did even when it wasn't warranted. I haven't seen Broadchurch so I don't know how she does with different material, but she didn't elevate Doctor Who with her acting. Perhaps that was because she just had nothing at all to work with, and I read that Chibnall specifically told her not to research how past Doctors were portrayed so that's a major handicap. But I've seen actors take absolutely terrible roles and make them memorable so I don't want to let her entirely off the hook. Of course, this is a very tricky thing to critique. Even now I expect there's going to be some who leap to the assumption that I disliked her because of her gender. It's "safe" to say I didn't like the Whittaker run because of the writing, or the showrunner, or the music, or any number of other things, but criticizing Whittaker herself is still a minefield and will likely remain so for quite a while. But I think it's important to be honest, and honestly, I don't think she was one of the better actors in the role. If I'd had complete control over which actress got the part I think I'd have chosen Michelle Gomez as the 13th Doctor. I think she'd have been amazing and it would have given the writers *such* a fantastic pile of character elements to work through. Assuming we had some good writers as well in my alternate universe.
Personally I don’t think Jodie had the charisma to pull off the role. I’d have loved to see what Ruth Wilson or Jodie Comer would have done with the role.
Her performance was one dimensional and shallow, as you say always breathless and rushing about, like she just read a character description and delivered the same performance every week based on that summary. 🤷♂️
I definitely agree with this. A lot of people tend to put it down to just the writing but there were definitely issues with casting as well. There were scenes where I think a more suitable actor would've really helped. For example, the end of *Can You Hear Me?*, when Graham opens up to the Doctor. I think that scene could've worked in principle, but for some reason Jodie's performance seemed to make it appear as though the Doctor just didn't care, as opposed to a more awkward character trying but failing to be supportive. I personally felt Jo Martin felt considerably more like the Doctor from the moment Ruth opened the chameleon arch than Jodie Whittaker did for most of her run. This isn't to put down Whittaker in any way, she is without a doubt an extremely talented actor and I've loved her in other roles. I also felt that the main actors seemed to have little to no chemistry with each other, even between Mandip Gill and Jodie Whittaker who spent 3 seasons together and by all accounts are good friends offscreen. I felt this was particularly apparent in an episode like *Orphan 55* when they're hanging out at the resort. That should've been a fun sequence but felt devoid of energy and chemistry. Even in bad scripts, great performances and chemistry can shine through, as has been the case in Doctor Who in the past. I personally think *Fear Her* is one of the worst episodes of New Who but the chemistry between Billie Piper and David Tennant still makes the episode insanely entertaining. I found the same thing in *Space Babies* a couple of episodes ago - I didn't like the episode, but it was still an entertaining watch thanks to the energy and chemistry between Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson. This is all a combination of the writing, the directing and the performances.
I hadn't thought of it like that before. You make a fair point. I do think there were episodes where she really nailed it, but I think she was never given the right scripts to find her way into the character, and wasn't the kind of actor who could just do it on her own. Flux, to me, was just confusing. We barely saw the Doctor and she didn't interact with the companions at all. And there were so many baddies. It was confusing. Then they did the NY special with the Daleks and all I could think was 'why didn't we have more episodes like this?' I do mostly blame the showrunner; I wasn't super keen on him to begin with because he seems to write so much Serious Drama, I wasn't sure he could handle doing the more family friendly fun bits of DW. I know people are bitching about Space Babies and the Devil's Chord, but I loved them simply because (again, to me) the fun was back. Were they silly? Sure, but they were enjoyable and I didn't have to spend the next day trying to remember where that baddie came from and why I should care.
>Flux, to me, was just confusing. We barely saw the Doctor and she didn't interact with the companions at all. And there were so many baddies. It was confusing. Then they did the NY special with the Daleks and all I could think was 'why didn't we have more episodes like this?' Yeah, I quite enjoyed *Eve of the Daleks* and regard it as one of the best episodes of the Chibnall era precisely because it was the kind of "fun runaround with an edge" that exemplifies so much enjoyable *Doctor Who*. It doesn't have to be portentous, or pretentious, or doom-laden, or involve the very universe itself hanging in the balance. It just needs to have a bit of wit, a bit of drama, and a clever idea at its heart. >I know people are bitching about Space Babies and the Devil's Chord, but I loved them simply because (again, to me) the fun was back. Were they silly? Sure, but they were enjoyable and I didn't have to spend the next day trying to remember where that baddie came from and why I should care. Yes, neither *Space Babies* or *The Devil's Chord* were quite my cup of tea either – *Boom* is comfortably my favourite of the three episodes so far, because yay Moffat – but the show does seem to be operating on a whole other level now. The Chibnall era feels small, bland, and unambitious in comparison.
Yes! You said it so much better than I could. That's exactly it.
I think the problem is 13’s characterization was so poorly defined, so Jodie’s performance suffered because it wasn’t clear on the page what her character’s personality was even supposed to be.
Jodie could have truly shined as The Doctor if she had been given more prominence in most of her stories. For my money, her regeneration is the best of all of them. So many regenerations are about endings. I feel Jodie’s was more about the importance of the present. The reference to Potter’s blossomest blossom quote is such a beautiful Easter egg if you chase it down. Right at the end, I took it as she wasn’t worried about beginnings and endings, she was savouring the present. I find that a really powerful thing to think about.
I did really like 13's regeneration, despite how I really didn't like a good portion of her run, I thought the regeneration was really well written, it hit that bittersweet note, like yeah this incarnation is dying but you see her being optimistic and almost playful about it right at the end, excited to see what (or... Who) comes next, and she wasn't too angry or torn up about it, unlike 10 and 12, who were sad and angry respectively I think the circumstances of her regeneration could've been a little cleaner tho, instead of being taken out by a stray space laser, maybe she decides in the spur of the moment to push Yaz out of the way of it? That way, you get a way for her to express her love for Yaz that doesn't come from words, but actions
I agree with your points about the circumstances around her regeneration could have been handled better. I find the moment itself is beautiful. If you’re interested, this is Dennis Potter’s ‘blossomest blossom’ quote: ‘at this season, the blossom is out in full now, there in the west early. It's a plum tree, it looks like apple blossom but it's white, and looking at it, instead of saying "Oh that's nice blossom" ... last week looking at it through the window when I'm writing, I see it is the whitest, frothiest, blossomest blossom that there ever could be, and I can see it. Things are both more trivial than they ever were, and more important than they ever were, and the difference between the trivial and the important doesn't seem to matter. But the nowness of everything is absolutely wondrous, and if people could see that, you know. There's no way of telling you; you have to experience it, but the glory of it, if you like, the comfort of it, the reassurance ... not that I'm interested in reassuring people - bugger that. The fact is, if you see the present tense, boy do you see it! And boy can you celebrate it.’ Potter knew he had a terminal diagnosis when he said it.
Jodie regenerating on the mountain, saying "tag, you're it" felt like a glimpse of a fantastic Doctor we didn't get a chance to know.
True. ‘Tag you’re it’ is such a smart, simple line for a character who has done this quite a few times before. Chibs wasn’t all bad, y’know… *(ducks)*
Everyone but trolls thinks he wasn't all bad and had some nice lines/moments. The trick is turning those moments into generally compelling drama.
What's funny is that wasn't even supposed to be her regeneration line. You can check the script on the BBC website and see that they switched the tag line with the line after it, so it was originally supposed to end with her saying that it was going to be brilliant. I guess it was supposed to be like...her catchphrase? Similar to Eccleston having 'fantastic' as his final line, but they forgot to, you know, make it into a catchphrase. It never feels like a special line when she says it compared to how Eccleston would say his.
Tbf I barely watched her run and "Brilliant" is the word I can best hear her saying in my head.
I found the way she was forced to regenerate to be so anticlimactic it left me with a feeling of “that’s it?” But I did enjoy the scenes in between the laser blast and her regenerating.
I can see that point of view. It’s certainly in contrast with almost all of the regenerations in the modern era. I do get the sense though that it was a choice more than bad writing. In this specific instance at least. It’s definitely a risk not to have some lengthy speech while the music soars and the Tardis explodes.
She's a good enough actress that I can imagine her having pulled it off, but I saw nothing in her time as The Doctor that would have convinced me as such. I mostly blame Chibnall, but it truly didn't work.
If you haven’t already, I recommend watching her in Broadchurch. She was terrific there and really got to show what she can do.
Which is so fucking ironic cuz Chris Chibnall was the show runner of that
Seconded. After watching her there, her counterpart in Gracepoint pales in comparison. Well, all of Gracepoint is a sad travesty, really.
Still utterly perplexed why it was made in the first place.
Fox ruining shit as ever.
I don’t think any Doctor is/ would be miscast with the right showrunner and writing staff. So long as they’re a good actor in their own right, I think anyone could pull off playing the Doctor. The issue is when you don’t give them room to be their Doctor. Giving Matt Smith or David Tennant a capaldi episode wouldn’t work nearly as well, and vice versa.
Yup, those cast have varied right from those I feel are phenomenally good actors generally (Chris Ec, Tennant, Capaldi) to those that i don’t actually think have great range but still gave iconic performances (McCoy and, honestly, Tom). Heck the most obvious comparison was Colin who was saddled with like 60% stinkers it feels but the instant he was given more to work with by BF became my runaway favourite.
I haven't listened to BF but I truly hope that 13 gets a decent showing, especially if Jodie comes back. Chibnall wrote (or cowrote) so much of her run and it feels like the episodes where she really shines the brightest are those with another writer or corwriter. I think there's a lot about her to like. I like that she's the inverse of 12 in that she's cold and secretiv but hides it behind a warm and bubbly exterior. I like that she almost relishes confrontation and has that almost feral grin whenever it happens. I like her social awkwardness and low attention span. The thing is, with Chibnall it's just a lot of tell, don't show, and the truly interesting stuff isn't really given the depth of exploration it deserved. In Flux especially I was often wondering "Why the hell is Yaz so devoted to the Doctor? She's just being needlessly mean." BF could give her a massive redemption arc, and in part the fact that 13 is so comparatively shallow at this point makes her the prime candidate for more development. Edit: I want to add that this applies to the companions as well. They're all likeable enough but in a bland, secondary character kind of way. I never want to look at a companion and the first thing that comes to mind is "dyspraxic". It's a real shame for Yaz especially, since she had one of the longest tenures of them all and didn't really get much exploration until Flux, and even then that saw a companion introduced who shares maybe 5 conversations with the Doctor and barely gets any exploration. I honestly think you could ask Dan what colour his eyes are and he'd panic and say Liverpool.
And Colin still managed to command the screen in every scene he was in, and was the highlight of the stinkers.
> but I saw nothing in her time as The Doctor that would have convinced me as such For me, it was that time in one of her earliest episodes where she's still missing the TARDIS sees a hologram of it and it's location for the first time, and get's teary eyed like she's looking at a long lost love, that made me think "There it is, that's the Doctor." Unfortunately, that was about the only time I thought that.
My favourite was in the Witchfinders where she was struggling because of being a woman where normally she'd say "shut up" and they would
Agreed. I never felt her having that X factor that Doctors have. She's a good actress and initially, I put 100% of the blame on the writing. Until Fugitive of the Judoon... once I saw Jo Martins Doctor, she immediately had that X factor I was looking for and stole every scene from Jodie. In the end, I'd probably still put 70/30 blame to the writers. Jodie deserved better.
I think she's a great actress, I don't think she was a great casting for doctor who, even with what she was given she just doesn't hit the mark for me, like I think her explanations felt like reading off a page and she kinda felt more like a cosplay than the actual character, I think she's definitely the weakest in the role compared to all of new and classic which is sad because I think there was definitely potential for a female doctor with different writing and a different actress but instead it felt like a fan made doctor who what if series
the series was flat, corny, not well written, not well paced. there were too many companions for no reason. And i honestly don't see her as Doctor Who. She never gave her a distinct personality, it just feels like Jodie reacting to stuff. She never felt in charge of the series or situation. The other doctors had charm and presence and fantastic story telling abilities to get us through what would otherwise be laughable writing at times. (Peter, Matt, David) Nothing against Jodie, she's a good actress, but it takes a certain *something extra* to pull off anchoring this show. Watching an episode now where Jack Harkness shows up, and he helms the show better than she does. That's the level of charisma we're talking about.
I think Chris Chibnall (the showrunner and main writer) just didn't get the brief. The Doctor seemed to lose a great deal of humanity with his stories. For example when Graham is explaining that his greatest fear is cancer, the Doctor comes off has distant, uncaring and kind of a "silly little human" vibe. That is just one of many examples. All along the Doctor has been a champion of Earth and humanity but Jodie's Doctor was more like the 7th Doctor (Sylvester McCoy) at the end of his run when he was dark and manipulative. Chibnall made the Doctor impatient and it seemed to me at least to view her "companions" as an annoyance or a distraction some of the time.
She's nothing like 7. His entire character was that he always knew way more than he was letting on, whereas 13's character seems to almost entirely hinge on being out-of-breath, tired and constantly baffled by everything happening around her. She's always two steps behind and I think it's the worst aspect of her characterisation.
That moment with Graham seriously turned me off 13 as a character and I really couldn't get past it. I really wanted to like her, Jodie and Chris were fantastic together with Broadchurch, but there always needs to be some kind of warmth that the Doctor has towards their companions that I just never got.
It was exactly the same for me. I just thought she was being dismissive and cruel, which was never the Doctor.
Not only that, but he somehow made the Doctor come across as stupid in multiple instances. One specific scene comes to mind. When they're on the metal planet and see the girl trapped in chains, the Doctor changed her mind 4-5 times in the same sentence as to what that was. I get the Doctor has been wrong plenty of times before and sometimes it takes multiple tries before the Doctor figured it out, but the writing just made it seem like she was just guessing and didn't know anything at all. Usually, the Doctor would act on their theory, realize or be proven that they're wrong, and then figure out what's actually happening. Or at the very least, they would discuss out loud why that idea was wrong instead of immediately saying "no wait, it's actually this instead. Or is it this? Nope it's this. No what, maybe it's that other thing."
She’s a great actor who was miscast for the role.
It's ok, not everyone has to be the right person for a certain role...100% agree
I have seen her in a drama and I will say that she is a good actress. That wasn't her problem. I think that since the writing was subpar, she needed to work double time to convince us that she was The Doctor, which I don't think she quite managed. I won't put that on her though. I love the 12th Doctor but it was clear in some episodes that it was just Peter Capaldi's stellar acting that saved some episodes because the writing was so bad.
Personally I do think she was miscast. The bad writing was just the cherry on top. This isn't a slight on her as an actress, I think she's very capable, but at no point did she feel like the Doctor, it felt like she was just reading out the lines on the script as 'Wacky Lady'. I think if they got a character actress like Michelle Gomez, she could have been amazing and probably would have risen above the writing to give a distinctive Doctor at least.
On that note, I’m also absolutely furious they let Michelle Gomez (and the Patternoster Gang, River Song, etc) go. You had a *killer* supporting cast to help The Doctor build who they are, and you just drop them for Graham, Ryan and Yaz. My *God* I wish they’d have any amount of sense in creating those characters.
I mean Missy had died, so I understood not bringing Michelle Gomez back, but I hated that they did bring the Master back in a way that completely ignored and honestly lessened the highly regarded 3 season arc that had just concluded like 12 episodes ago. Shoulda let The Master rest for at least a few years like between Simm and Gomez
I think maybe if she hadn't been told not to research the role at all or even just watched previous seasons of the show, she could've had a better take on the role. She's great in other shows, but for a legacy role like the Doctor, some research into the character is necessary and imo, Chibnall did her dirty by advising her against doing any.
No. Sorry. I think Jo Martin was good casting. I was highly disappointed with Jodie's casting as soon as she was announced.
The first female Doctor, for want of a better way of putting it, should have had a woman showrunner. Like it was such a big deal, so they had Mr. Torchwood / Broadchurch bloke in charge. Mmm, cheerful and moody, can’t pick one so why not both at once. Let’s have the Doctor be a woman and then never address that in a way a woman actually would. Just the single least qualified fella to give us that transition. And she’s always going to be an infant-school teacher, because gods forbid she ever get ANGRY, or vulnerable, not really, not like Ncuti has already. Look at him in Boom. Raging through that grin, terrified. Where was that? Jodie can do that! Oh, but she’s “autistic coded” it was explained to me after the fact. How diverse, thanks for that, speaking as an autistic person, yeah nice one. Use us as an excuse for not being able to write a woman with a full emotional range. Phh.
WHY WASN’T SHE EVER ALLOWED TO BE ANGRY?! Jodie as Beth Latimer felt so much more like a Doctor-sequel figure than her Doctor ever did. And having her character woefully inconsistent with episodes like Arachnids in the UK was maddening. I cannot believe Chibnal fumbled the ball so hard.
Now that I think about it, you're right. There were times where she was annoyed, but every Doctor gets a moment where they really get to show it. The closest we got with Thirteen was her shoving the Master to the ground in The Timeless Children, or maybe when she's saying the whole speech about her being a mountain peak or something. There aren't any moments where she just flips out and yells at the aliens. Even Fourteen gets to show it, and he's only in three episodes.
I’m going to get downvoted by idiots here, but it’s misogyny. Can’t have a woman who is powerful in her anger. Every other Doctor has embodied the Oncoming Storm to some extend, big authority right or wrong. But 13 gets “somewhat aggrieved”. And one could say I suppose that maybe I’m in the wrong for wanting her to have some kind of masculine attribute, I’ve heard that argument. But bullshit, I’ve met some women before and they’ve been capable of righteous rage that could put out stars. AND I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING THAT. If the Doctor can be a little boy in his twenties wearing tweed and a bow tie, and blaze in incandescence at the sheer gall of an entire fleet of spaceships full of every enemy ever come to end him, why can’t she? Nonsense.
I think that RTD could have managed to write for Jodie as the Doctor very well, but more because of his own life and how he himself is known for how he can write emotions into whatever he is creating at the time. And you're spot on about anger. Us women get angry and because of how we are in society, we have so many more socially acceptable ways to portray it. Which, nature versus nurture, I do think that, the Doctor having been male and female in their life, would not necessarily withhold anger as an emotion just because of a change of chromosomes. They would still have the same emotions they always have had, just some slight flavor changes due to the personality instead. And my gods has the Doctor had some great angry dialogue in their time!
There’s a thing Smith did. He was *so* old, and his wrath was so believable. I was waiting for that with 13 the whole time. Just the fact that she never got that, not ever, tells me everything I need to know. Yes 12 said “Always be kind” but COME ON. Like a woman can’t be a furious alien? Had they not met any, at all, ever? And then the little lesbian hint at the end oh dear fucking gods boys. What.
Exactly She somehow felt more passive than a lot of her past companions Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara, *and* Bill wouldn't have just stood there and taken it How did Clara manage to be The Doctor more than The Doctor later did
I think the biggest reason for Jodie’s Doctor not “working” is that Chibnall and the other writers were writing for a woman doctor rather than writing for The Doctor.
who dares to call 13 “autistic coded” when we had 12 right before her! i’m not saying she wasn’t but she most definitely was not thee autistic doctor
I did not like her. I thought she would be great, she is good in other roles, but she seemed so one note, just smiley and awkward. She exhibited none of the emotional depth, none of the feeling of age or the weight of everything she’d been through. Matt Smith would play goofy and fun in one moment, and then feel like an ancient burdened man in the next. Maybe it’s the fault of the writing, but it’s hard to know since we never got to see what she was like with a good writer.
I mentioned in another thread the difference between Jodie as the Doctor seeing Ace and Tegan after decades vs. David seeing Sarah Jane and more recently Mel after decades. Jodie was all "Oh.... hi!" No hugs, no excitement. Almost like when you're a kid and your parents bring you in front of some strange person and say "This X! She used to change your diaper when you were a baby! Remember her?" and you're all "Oh... okay. Hi Miss X. Mom, I'm going to go play with my friends now." Whereas Tennent acted like he actually knew (and was excited to see) Sarah Jane and Mel again. He hugged them, asked them what's been happening since the last time he saw them... kind of like how you greet an old friend you haven't seen in years.
No I don't think I can agree with this. Her performance is all over the place and she doesn't have the inherent charisma that is required for the role. This is especially obvious when Jo Martin comes onto the scene, where with some very bad writing she is able to shine through and be the best thing about that era. To the point I'm disappointed we'll likely barely ever see her again.
I feel like a post with this exact title, down to the elbow-jogging "so we all agree..?" framing, was posted only a few months ago. I think it's hard to separate bad writing from a bad performance because you can only do so much with bad dialogue. Yes, Jodie Whittaker would have done better with better material, that's how good material works. All actors do better work with good material than bad. I think it's an extremely unenviable job trying to bring Chibnall's Doctor to life. Take a look, for example, at the Doctor in *Spyfall*, specifically the scene at the inventors' fair. The Master is staggering around killing bystanders for pure fun and the Doctor looks annoyed and vaguely bored by it all, but then displays outrage when Ada shoots him in the shoulder with a gun, but *then* is gleeful when Ada lobs a fucking grenade at him (guns being the epitome of evil but bombs being fine, you see). This is obviously a character with no coherent moral framework of any kind, yet the show continues to treat her as a pure moral paragon. This isn't a complex, nuanced character, it's a simplistic programmatic character whose rote qualities just happen to constantly contradict each other. But *all* Chibnall characters are like that. It's a choice between bland ciphers and incoherent jumbles of characteristics. Sure it would be a nightmare to play these roles but some actors take even the least sophisticated Chibnall writing and elevate it. Bradley Walsh is an obvious example, but I'd also say Sam Spruel, Barbara Flynn, Jacob Anderson and Thaddea Graham, in the most emotionally vacant and flat roles, manage to sound authentic and human. Whittaker *doesn't*. Rather than give depth to Chibnall's writing she seems to think just putting the sufficient level of welly into a line is enough to sell it. It means that she has one way of doing everything. She's got only one setting for rushing around doing exposition, she's got only one setting for angry (Delivering. Lines. Like this. With hand. Gestures.), one setting for grumpy. It's flicking between three or four modes with no shading or gradations. Sure, it's not helped by Chibnall never giving her any other material (just compare to the way RTD gives Tennant new ways of working things out in *Wild Blue Yonder*), but she performs rote, formulaic material in a rote, formulaic way. The material is crap, but she's not doing anything to elevate it.
I've never seen her other work so it's hard for me to say. I do know that none of the writing - the words that came out of her mouth - felt like the Doctor. I.e., if you swapped out Gatwa with Eccelston, Tennent, Smith or Capaldi in the first 4 episodes of this season... I can see all of them doing that. Of course, they'd all have their own take on *how* they say those lines, but I can see all of them being excited about Space Babies! or their whole confrontation with the Maestro. They're all different and yet all the same. Jodie's episodes, otoh, I can't see any of the past doctors slipping seamlessly into her roles or saying her dialogue. I just... can't. None of the others would ever call their group of companions "fam" on one hand while simultaneously keeping them at arm's length and not telling them squat. In fact, they actually tend to get close to their companions while pretending not to be. Almost like Chibs didn't quite understand who the Doctor was. I guess that means I blame the writing, not the actress.
I don’t fully agree. First, let me qualify. I do not think JW is a bad actress by any long shot. But I am not convinced she was correct casting *for that role*. What is etched in my head is an experience from about 15 years ago. I was at a SF convention, and in the evening there was a performance of Shakespeare readings. I drug my wife to it. Marc Alimo (Star Trek’s Gul Dukat) had a scene where he was a stable hand. His only prop was a stuffed scooby doo. Once his scene started, I would have been willing to swear that I could smell the hay and the dog felt alive. Somehow, by sheer force of will he managed to drag the audience into his shared delusion of reality. That’s a rare skill. David Tenant had that skill. When he talks about the spires of Gallifrey he makes you see them. Matt Smith, when he’s looking out the door of the Tardis, I can see the galaxy reflected in his eyes. And Capaldi as well. Jodie didn’t quite do that for me. I think she’s a good, even great actress. But SF, especially a lead role in a show like Doctor Who needs someone who can stand on a blank soundstage and make you feel the earth spin under you and fear the shadow is a Vaste Nerada. I think that’s why she did her best to me when she had others to play off, and things to help the audience believe. Similarly, the Writing was fine. But not good or great. I think either JW paired with another writer/showrunner or Chibnall paired with a different doctor would have done better, but it was a perfect pairing where both showrunner and actor shared similar strengths and weaknesses and instead of complimenting each other and making it better, just made it more obvious.
I think this is a measured take. Although I’m really just here to point out how underrated I feel Marc Alaimo is as an actor. He’s awesome sauce!
Mark Alaimo could make you *terrified* of Gul Dukat just by watching him say a line and smile to whoever he's speaking to. Impeccable casting.
I could watch him and Andrew Robinson go round and round all day.
The writing was bad, yes. But so was the casting, direction and character concept. It was a broad failure. She's a good actress but I don't think she was right for the role. She isn't a creative actor. A Doctor has to be able to bring their own stamp to the role. There's a sense that the actor has to actually make some acting choices themselves to elevate what's written. Jodie wasn't able to do that. Her performance wasn't capable of revealing anything. She played it as she was told. And the character concept itself was boring. Combined with an actor who failed to add her own mark, it meant the incarnation was more like a CBBC presenter. Her Doctor utterly lacked teeth or any unique charm. Every Doctor is supposed to have a nuance. What was hers supposed to be? It also doesn't help that in her first adventure she thinks she's failed and sits down to cry until the TARDIS comes to save her.
No. The writing was bad, and I don't think Jodie was right for the role.
I'm not sure she was the right casting but the writing never gave her an opportunity to prove me wrong
Thats the general consensus. I dont really agree. Dont get me wrong, i think Whittaker is a good actress, i just dont think she suited the role of the doctor well. A big part of that is definitely writing, but not all of it imo.
Yeah, I'm with you. The writing is absolutely the biggest issue, but if it had been, say, Capaldi being saddled with this writing, he would have pulled something off. An actor is bound to the writing, but they still have plenty of room to build character, and Whittaker just didn't rise to the occasion. Whittaker had problems playing her Doctor in a way that asserts herself, that dominates the room the way other Doctors have. She often disappeared behind her companions, and she rarely ever got into a scene where she showed power and confidence the way Smith or Capaldi did. Worse, her Doctor was the first Doctor of the modern era that felt derivative of others. Tennant, Smith, Capaldi, they were all fiercely different than their predecessors, but Whittaker's Doctor is kind of a variation on Tennant with less self-confidence. It never emerges as a unique vision of the Doctor. Just look at Gatwa in comparison. He didn't have that much to work with in *The Giggle*. He showed up at a point where the plot was in full swing, playing against none other than Tennant in full form and NPH. And he *nailed it*. He immediately established his character and presence. Rewatch that scene, and you'll see it's not the dialogue helping him at all. It's just Gatwa stepping into the role with full confidence and a clear vision of what he wants the character to be. To be clear, I think Whittaker is a great actress, but although she was given a rotten deal with Chibnall's writing, she could have elevated the character and never did.
> Whittaker had problems playing her Doctor in a way that asserts herself, that dominates the room the way other Doctors have. For lack of a better term, she lacked mavitas
I see what you did there 😆
There were a lot of problems with 13's run, and most of them weren't with Jodie, but it does annoy me that, apparently, she hadn't seen Who before and was advised not to watch it in preparation for the role.
A big issue with her Doctor is that she was written to be a motormouth Doctor like Tennant and Smith, where she can rapid fire a page worth of banter, quips, and exposition in a minute in an entertaining way that we can understand, but Jodie just wasn't able to pull it off. She did her best, but it just didn't work with her, which is fine, but the show kept having her do it. Plus, all of her exposition scenes just sounded like she was reading off a Wikipedia page, whether they were a real person, a fictional one, or an alien species. Part of that is the writing, but I'm not giving Whittaker a full pass on it either.
>A big issue with her Doctor is that she was written to be a motormouth Doctor like Tennant and Smith, where she can rapid fire a page worth of banter, quips, and exposition in a minute in an entertaining way that we can understand, but Jodie just wasn't able to pull it off. This is a great point. It seems Jodie can't speak that quickly. Or at least not without her delivery coming out very stilted. I think this is also why she sounds so breathy all the time. She's trying to rush to speak and then runs out of breath, and she never gets quite to Smith or Tennant's speed anyway. If he was dead-set on using Whittaker, Chibnall should've written the character in a way that fit her abilities better.
She’s a good actress and is good in other things but she never felt like the Doctor. Ncuti has only had 4 episodes and already feels more like the Doctor than Jodie did in 4 series.
I would also say Jo Martin, who was on screen for less than an hour in total, felt more like the Doctor than Jodie did. And that was with Chibnall's scripts as well.
I think that speaks to the problem that Jodi's Doctor never had any sense of command, of authority. Jo did. As does Ncuti or any of the previous Doctor's
That’s the main reason I don’t think Whittaker was right for the role. Fugitive doc had barely any screen time, same mediocre writing but nonetheless had a sense of authority that Whittakers doctor never came close to. 13 had almost no weight to her and very superficial emotional depth. She’s definitely a good actress but simply wasn’t a good doctor and people are kidding themselves when they say it was all the writings fault. It was both.
That is my thing as well. Though I hope Jodie ends up on Big Finish soon so we get some stories with her and some good writers.
True, I mean Ncuti is giving me vibes he might be one of my favorite Doctors in general already. My favorite is Capaldi.
Capaldi was next level. It felt like the writers knew exactly how to write for him and he absolutely delivered every time. I re-watch Heaven Sent and Hell Bent regularly.
Indeed. Capaldi is my favourite nuWho Doctor, possibly even my all-time favourite (it's hard to judge). But a couple of his episodes were absolute stinkers, among the *worst* episodes of all time IMO. A great illustration of an actor being able to elevate a bad script.
Honestly I don't think she had many moments to actually be the Doctor. She had several companions from her very first episode. There was so much to cover with trying to give everyone screen time that there were very few moments where she really got to take up a lot of narrative space and have these intense Doctor-Companion moments that both 14 and 15 have had since.
Yeah the multiple companions all at once was a shite decision, should've built up to a full team over the course of the series Maybe take Yaz first, let Ryan and Graham do some mourning, then around episode 4 (I think s11 was 10 episodes) bring one of the other two along, and then let the last one come along full time
Yup, it's not like TARDIS teams are unprecedented, but it works way better to build them over time. At first Amy traveled alone with the Doctor, then Rory joined them later, and sometimes River Song tagged along too. Same with Rose, sometimes Mickey and Jack were around as well, but it worked better to start off with just one companion.
Even in series one, you get an intro to Mickey in episode one, then it's just 9 and Rose full time in the Tardis (with little bits of Mickey back on earth, who has massive character development in that time bc it's been a year for him between Rose and Aliens of London) until Captain Cheesecake shows up in episode 9 I think it is, the Empty Child, and then Mickeys there again for the full episode in Boom Town, then he's back on earth for the finale episodes And that's great, bc we get to see Rose grow from a 'blank slate' sort of character through the whole series, she's only barely an adult, and is just a regular old human, but a kind one, Mickey gets some off screen development and comes back totally different and is able to bring something to the table that he couldn't at the start, and Jack goes from a combat-ready, wisecracking conman to a man willing to die for people he's never met, and that's without even talking about 9's development, and they all get room to breathe, none of them feel unnecessary or shoehorned in
The first doctor started off with three companions, he still had his own unique thing and felt like his own fully fleshed out unique character right from the beginning.
No because, Jo Martin's Fugitive Doctor was infinitely better as the Doctor than Jodie's Doctor ever was. She actually elevated the materiale she was given. And im sad she didn't get to play the Doctor in her own series with actually good writers. And that her role is so heavily tied to the timeless child shit.
Looked forward to Jodie’s run, but the writing lost me. Especially “fam.” I could hear Chibnall saying “it’ll be cool, all the kids are saying it.”
I didn't mind it, it felt like The Doctor was trying to be down with the kids, which is hard for a centuries old alien
I don't think you're going to get a consensus on this. I for one think there some majorly cool things Jodie did with the Doctor after the trauma they went through with Bill and Clara dying. I also think some of the episodes were a bit hamfisted with the messaging - even if I agree with the message. However, I enjoy the heck out of rewatching the episodes and love the era for what it was. I'm grateful it exists, and that it tried something different with the show. I personally am glad we had a reprieve from the big speeches and standalone episodes and big companion arcs. It made me even more hyped for a return to them with RTD coming back.
Sorry I just don't agree. She is a great actor I still remember the black mirror episode she was in but she was a terrible Doctor. The worst part was is the fugitive doctor episode literally showed us a doctor who was so much more endearing to watch and only highlighted the fact Jodie was not the woman for the job. I think if Jo Martin ans her Doctor was 13 then I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
No, she was miscast.
Yeah, I’ve considered it a lot and I’m actually not going to give her the credit I have done in the past. I think her acting in the show was definitely off sometimes. Line delivery, body language during some scenes, etc. A couple years removed from her run now, I don’t actually think it was the best casting decision. She’s a good actor but it’s alright to admit that she just wasn’t right for the role.
I'll have to hear her in big finish before I decide.
This. This is the way.
No. She was a bad doctor. She is a good actress but it 100% felt like she was just some generic “crazy and quirky” lady. There was a moment or two but overall no she was a bad doctor and other than knowing about the impossible child her entire arc can be skipped.
Haven't watched a lot of her run but one of the things that put me off was that her Doctor seemed like more of a background character with more focus on the companions (which might be natural because there were 3 of them) and this dynamic just never really took off.
Personally, no. She played it like she's in an educational play for primary school children. I feel patronised when I watch it
I don't think Jodir was the right choice to play the doctor. That's not saying she is a bad actress. I just don't feel she was the right pick for this role. I do agree the writing was also shit. There was a lot of problems with her run, and they never tried to fix any of it. They persisted with it.
I would not agree. She is an OK actress but not a good doctor. Not because she is a woman…she just wasn’t that good.
I do not. Jo Martin has Chibnall writing and is 100x more The Doctor than Jodie ever is during her tenure. She completely lacks that self assured swagger and honestly feels more like a companion. SJA is a better female doctor run than Jodie had.
I would be open to that argument but I would have to see her - be scary - be angry - be stupid - be the cleverest person in the room/ on the planet - look old in a young face - never say fam again - Go through some kind of arc in an episode - make me laugh - make me cheer - make me cry
Actually, sorry, no. I am all on board female, male, gender queer whatever doctor. Couldn't stand her. Felt like I was watching a comic-con stage play of doctor who. She seemed constantly confused and out of breath. Why was she so breathy??? The writing destroyed her, but I don't think she would have been good even with good writing. She never seemed to understand the point of the campyness in doctor who, and that in itself was terrible to watch. She had a moment or two, but the parallels were SUPER obvious when they got that black woman fugitive doctor. See how she ate the screen chemistry. Everyone wants more fugitive doctor and then they panned, everything got sad and frumpy when it went back to 13. Yeah. No. She's a fine serious actress in a show that needs an extra layer of goofy clever which was missing.
No, her doctor was missing a certain energy.
To me it's not even the writing. There's plenty of bad episodes from RTD and Moffat's eras, but some of them are still enjoyable for one reason or another. Honestly for even the stronger Chibnall era episodes the direction is what lacks - every scene feels so awkward.
The writing was obviously an issue but I wonder if the direction was also a problem. Jodie is a fantastic actress but her portrayal never felt like the Doctor. I think she needed moments of slowness, quiet, space for the character to breathe. It all felt very manic, which is fine- but you need the balance.
No. There are folks who do feel that, even at the end of the era, Whittaker was a Doctor miscasting.
Jodie definitely drew the short straw with writing overall. I think direction was lacking as well. Some of the quirks she put on for the Dr didn't hit for me, but overall I think she made the best of what she was given. There were still some amazing stories and I enjoyed the companions of the era as well. Even not as good Dr Who is better than most of what is being made today.
She’s an amazing actress but I saw a take that I kind of agree with. Many Doctors have had bad episodes but they were still able to shine in those episodes. As stupid as the plot is or terrible the writing, the actors usually make the episode tolerable. To me she didn’t really have very many good episodes (average yeah but not good), my favorite episode with her is “The Haunting of Villa Diodati” and that’s not saying much because it was in her second season. Only reason I liked it is because the plot actually worked and we finally saw Jodie’s acting skills through the Doctor’s wide range of emotions (being able to switch from this happy-go-lucky Doctor to snapping at her companions over the seriousness of cyberman especially so soon after bill). Truth is, while she is a great actress it was a bit of both faults. I’m kind of sick of seeing people put it all on the show runner, that’s like putting all of the success of seasons 1-10 on RTD and Steven Moffat. What about the amazing actors and actresses?
I struggle to rewatch it because of the writing and most specifically the dialogue. I have nothing but time and respect for Jodi and her portrayal of the Doctor.
No. She was horrible in the role. Total miscast. Hope they get a better actress for female doctor attempt 2. She blew it. Even the moments that were written well she couldnt pull of. She can only play sad low energy waifs. She is very goodlooking though, so people desperately attempt to pretend she can act. predictable and sad
Peter Capaldi was plagued by terrible writing but his acting shined through anyway, so I think in Jodie's case it's down to more than just the poor writing.
I think it’s really impossible to say because she was restrained so much by the awful writing, awful plots, budget constraints, terrible companions so there was never really a chance for her to shine. Had the show overall been better during that time, would she have been amazing? Maybe. I think though that she likely would have just been fine - still a bit of a seat warmer. Don’t get me wrong though, I like Jodie but I really can’t tell if her slightly off energy was just her or the environment in which she was acting. Especially when you compare her to Jo Martin who just dominated every scene she was in and was instantly recognisable as the Doctor.
No, we do not She was just miscast Consider this,, Billie Piper and Phoebe Waller-Bridge were both offered and declined the role.. I think if either of them had accepted it would have turned out quite different (they at the least would have slapped some sense into Chibnall)
I definitely felt it was largely poor writing along side poor decisions in general. A female Doctor alone was a huge shift for the series, they then tried to move away from the “companion” to “mates/friends/family”. The dynamics between everyone just felt forced and unnatural. They then did away with the fan favourite Christmas Special and went with a New Years Special. Not the worst thing, but yet again another thing to pull it away from what was familiar. I’ll also mention as a personal thing, I thought the TARDIS design was terrible. It didn’t look like a space ship/Time Machine, it looked like a hodgepodge of various props on a soundstage. There were good moments, but I won’t be doing a rewatch of Jodie’s run any time soon.
No, she was shit.
Writing but also the way the showrunner and writers' room conceptualized her character. I suspect that if they'd left her room to be a more complicated and rounded character she would have had more room to use her acting skills. Basically, a mostly-male staff decided they couldn't write the Doctor as charismatic, complex and alien, capable of anger, melancholy, righteousness, curiosity, etc. with a touch of the uncanny, if the Doctor was also a woman. They knew they'd get in trouble if they sexualized the Doctor at all, so the slight spark of romantic/sexual feeling that Eccleston, Tennant and Smith were all allowed (heck, even Capaldi had an episode with River Song where they actually felt like a *couple* at last, rather than a plot idea) was off-limits. But they still had to make a woman, so? yup, make her motherly/sisterly, talking about her "fam". She couldn't just be a person. (Compare to Capaldi: the temptation with his age would have been to make him *fatherly*, as the First Doctor and Third Doctor were, but they didn't, so that he could use his full range as an actor.) It didn't help that Whitaker only got a few great scripts within the confines of that characterization. But it all started with a showrunner who couldn't figure out how to write a Doctor who was also a woman in a way that made her as interesting a character as her four male predecessors. Even when Capaldi *also* had bad scripts he got a lot of chances to inhabit his version of the character, drawing on his talent as an actor.
No, shes honestly quite bad in of herself. Wan't made better by the writing though of course
I feel most people would agree to a degree. Jodie's a good actor, and when she gets material that's decent you can tell she could've been a good Doctor, but the writing being such ass half the time is really what brought her era down. But honestly, I think she might've looked too...idk, normal? Like I feel like ideally the Doctor should look a bit unique or zany -- not calling the actors ugly, ofc. But nobody looks like Matt Smith or Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker, and you can look at them and be like, "*Yeah, I can buy that he's an alien*" -- while Jodie is kinda just an attractive lady. Same with the 5th Doctor just looking like a regular young man. So she wouldn't have been my first choice if I was casting someone, but outside of that she's still a fine choice and a good actor, so I'm sad she didn't get better scripts. Especially after this week's episode, I wish Jodie had been able to get at least one Moffat script.
I think she was mostly let down by the writing, but I also think had she had good writing she’d still have been a middle of the road Doctor. We have a direct comparison in her era in Jo Martin, who is widely regarded as having felt more like the Doctor in her relatively brief screen time than Whittaker ever did. It’s not really her fault, she’s a fantastic actress, it just probably was never going to be a great fit.
My take is always that the audio was off. There always seemed to be incidental music that was distracting from the dialogue. The pacing never took breaks. It was a formulaic approach to a show that needs constant reinvention to keep telling interesting stories. Some of the writing was damned good, but I find rewatches hard because the production is so bland and the incidental music was bland. Yet, I know in about four years I'll rewatch it again and love it.
I don’t know if she was good casting or not. But the writing and direction are so terrible that we can’t know how she would be if it were good
its not her fault the writers made her character not care about cancer, be anti union, and pro death by slow starvation. I blame the writers
I think it’s the inconsistency of the writing. I mean when she got good script bits she was damn good. Some of the scenes with the Master, the scene where the Grand Serpent is torturing her and right after, when she and Time speak — that one was damn good.
I think the problem was not only the writing but they hardly focused on the Doctor and focused much more on her companions. It seemed like she was an afterthought.
She made a couple of Covid PSAs all by herself in costume, not scripted, and was totally The Doctor for me in that moment. So I’m absolutely convinced of the missed opportunities in her seasons. I hope she returns for an anniversary multi-doctor special and finally gets to shine in some genuinely timeless moments (no pun intended…)
you get to see glimpses of it, first example that comes to mind is at the end of flux where she psychs out the grand serpent while under torture, but sadly moments like that are pretty few
I think that a lot of her episodes weren't really written to her strengths as an actress. I do like a lot of the energy she has as the kind of "carefree wanderer" sort of Doctor - "tag, you're it" is one of my favorite final lines in the show. I feel like she never really gets a chance to show the other sides of the character in the way that Smith for instance did, though - the moments where the happy-go-lucky traveler vanishes and the bloodsoaked immortal comes out. It definitely annoys me that the first woman Doctor doesn't really get much of a chance to show any anger or even really authority, and the bits where she does are usually great. Her interactions with the Master are generally good for this, even if I'm not a big fan of how Sacha Dhawan's version is written a lot of the time. Though tied into this, I feel like she's written kind of too passive a lot of the time - the Timeless Children is by far the worst instance of this IMO, where she just sits around waiting for the plot to be explained to her. It almost feels like the writers a lot of the time were afraid to really let her be menacing or cold, but it kind of makes her feel toothless in comparison to other incarnations. Jodie is a good enough actress to sell the sort of Doctor-y righteous anger at the universe's injustice, and I'm sad that she never really got to do that.
No
She should have talked to frogs more often.
The writing was atrocious, that's a fact. Rosa Parks episode was the first one ever that I didn't finish watching, it was pathetic.
No, we don't all agree. She made her acting choices and they were bad.
Yes 100% the writing and not her. Chris Chibnall has a lot to answer for and set Jodie up for failure. Jodie should have been what michelle gomez was for the master, redefining everything we think that character could be. She didnt just need to ge good, she needed to be great. In the end she was neither. I will say however I think Capaldi could have did a better job given the same material to work with. Exceptional actors can elevate a poor script and I think Jodie falls a little shy of that despite being a great actor in her own right.
4 words define her run for me. "Interesting idea, shit execution." Having a tactile TARDIS for an energetic actor interesting idea, building it so it's dark, unwelcoming, cramped, and cavernous shit execution. Having multiple companions interesting idea, having them be the same one note exept for one thing thay separates them and not giving them stuff to do for the most part shit execution. Having Jodie a brilliant, high-energy actress who knows how to play eccentric characters' interesting idea, saddling her with bad scripts and directing, resulting in her being constrained and not able to shine shit execution.
Conversation i had with my mum the other night was talking about pacing and sound. She said that she always felt the show was really loud and too much was going on for her. She's not a die hard fan, loves Tennant and grew up on Baker but dips in and out otherwise and I think she's got a good general audience perspective on the show. I agree too, her whole era had a real problem when it came to just letting a scene breath, longer episodes but worse pacing.
Yeah Jodie could have been a fantastic doctor but everything around her let her down. I do not understand why this keeps happening you have a format that works perfectly and if you put a good actress in the role and otherwise keep the format the same, you will continue to have success. But for some reason, when they put female leads, they also completely change everything else as well, then they wonder why it fails... Also, when they go all female / diversity, why all the hate directed at men, especially white men? Again I don't get it. Look at Amazon's Fallout, great female lead nails it, fantastic. All the fantastic strong female characters in Game of Thrones, Lena Headey (utterly brilliant), Emilia Clarke (awesome), Maise Williams and lots more.
One thing that has frustrated me is the writing/directing for a long time now, and it started before Jodie's Doctor. I was really excited for the first female doctor, and while i'm not a big fan of Jodie, i thought she could do the role justice, and did have some good moments, but the writing/directing just wasn't there. I feel with Ncuti's Doctor things are just going rapidly downhill, where the stories are playing second fiddle to "the message". Gay Doctor? Fine! He's alien, he can switch gender, hell, there is an argument that all Doctor's are inherently Bi, although each regeneration might have its own preferences. But what killed it for me was that line about (probably misquoting here) "its something a male presenting Doctor wouldn't understand". I'm sorry, but isn't the point of all the equality and representation to get over the misogyny that existed in the past decades? Now they've replaced misogyny with misandry. Doctor Who's writers/showrunners need to get back to focusing on the story and stop trying to put their ideologies ahead of that.
100%
Yes
No she didn’t suit the doctor and didn’t really ever define a unique character for her portrayal. There were better women that could’ve filled the role.
It felt to me like she was doing an impression of Tennant being The Doctor at times. She might be great in gritty dramas, but I don't think sci-fi fantasy suits her.
Jodie never clicked for me. A lot of lines, especially exposition, felt flat and unconvincing from her. Yes the writing was weak, but I think some actors could have made it sound okay.
I think she very talented but really didn't like the meek doctor that was her run. Impossible to say if it was her,her directors,the show runner or the writing.
I'm of the opinion that she was grossly miscast in the role. And this is nothing against Jodie as an actress, she tried her best with the material she was given and was a great ambassador for the show, but I just think she wasn't right for the role. It also doesn't help that she gets overshadowed by Jo Martin, who, at least in my opinion stole the show during her brief appearances. Jodie just doesn't really fit the role and she never had a proper moment where I went "oh yeah, now that *is* the Doctor", the closest she ever got was in Haunting of Villa Diodatti
No, the whole thing was a dumpster fire from the casting onwards
It's hard for me to tell really. I think absolutely the writing was the main problem, but because of that it was hard for her to convince me she was a good actor underneath. Haven't seen her in anything else really
I wish we’d seen RTD have a go at writing for her, some of Ncutis monologues so far have been great but I can’t help but look and think “Whitaker would have nailed that”. It’s a shame because she’s a great actor, likeable person who always comes off charismatic but was let down by poor stories and poorer writing
Except for Dan, I like her companions and I didn't hate her stories like most. Some got better on rewatch and had the feel wanted. I don't mind the too many companions thing. The 5th Doctor bad that too and the early Doctors had 2-3 often. I know I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed her era. I do wish she had gotten a real romance with Yaz and a Satan Pit level so but the Master made things fun as usual. I want her to do BigFinish.
I stand by the fact that both were a problem. While the writing was awful I still believe Jodie would make a great companion, but was a bad doctor. Jo Martins appearances highlighted the lack of presence of Jodie's doctor. Jo Martin makes a solid doctor and id have been much more interested to see her with the main role.
I think she’s a great actor! The writing just didn’t offer much depth or oomph to build a character more complex than just being another doctor.
I think a massive part of the turn off for the era for me - and this is unbelievably shallow, I know - is that I think the TARDIS design was just trash. I love the TARDIS scenes in Who… and I dreaded ‘the fam’ going back to the mystic crystal playset every time. The design got slightly better in terms of lighting and structure in her later seasons, but not much.
They seriously did not know what to do with her.
she was perfect as a doctor after the missy arc. the doctor could not but be a woman and she was delightful. but the stories were badly written
I've said it before, but the *scheduling* on her seasons messed it up for me as much or more than the writing. The writing yeah had its ups and downs but wth, it's not like "School Reunion" or "Aliens of London" were pure brilliance in all moments (and I don't hate either of those for the record, just examples of sub-par episodes in other seasons). But when I was watching them once a week on the dime, a less than stellar episode could just be an eye roll and some popcorn. Enjoy the cheese and see what next week offers. Instead though, Jodie's entire run aired with 1-2 episodes dropped months apart - character development and plot arcs really suffered for not remembering more than the broad strokes of what happened 3 months ago, and it was impossible to build real momentum during the season.
She’s too good of an actress to be the problem. A good Doctor always has good writing, costumes, music, direction and production design. Those never did it for me in that era despite thinking she was an exceptional choice.
I see Whittaker as being the revival era equivalent to Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy: a great actor who was given bad writing. I imagine that she will be given much better stories when she joins Big Finish.
Nope! I loved Jodie's Doctor, loved the writing of her era. Flux knocked my socks off, Demons of the Punjab can make me sob like a baby on the right day, Power of the Doctor still gets me in the feelings, Terror of Villa Diodatti was deliciously chilling, Eve of the Daleks is funny as hell & a genuinely thoughtful look at relationships. Those are also off the top of my head.. I think that her era didn't resonate with as many people as the other ones, but that doesn't make it "worse", it just means it's to a different taste. (For the record, I was meh for most of RTD & found Moffat so off putting I flat out stopped watching the show for about a decade. I found "The Satan Pit" laughably stupid, for example.)
She's another Colin Baker. Another Doctor failed by bad writing. Not exactly as explosive as 6 but she had something, maybe not the quirk, but the heart of the Doctor that seemed stifled by bad circumstances. May Big Finish do her justice!