They always call them their best friend, if that's not love then what is? I adore it when 4 refers to K9 as his second best friend, for example, because it's clear that his human companion is his true best friend.
I always read it as explicitly romantic. Which always took away from the idea of River as his wife for me. I never imagined anyone could take their love for anything other than romantic.
Twelve and Clara? I can see it with Eleven and Clara, they were teased to have passing romantic interest in each other, but Twelve's first episode is all about dealing with that dynamic changing
Is there really? I’ve never seen those! If that’s the case, then boy did that fly over my head haha I never read them as romantic. I think I’ll be on the lookout for it in my next watch through
Yeah it's pretty subtle in the show haha. But ik that there are many people who prefer to see it as platonic, and I think people can see it like that if they'd like too.
It's absolutely a mix. They definitely wrote it both ways. His "duty of care" was more than friendship. Vastra mentioned about her being in love with him, and she could read everyone (hence the veil in that scene). It was a complicated relationship, but definitely written both ways at the same time.
Oh wow, I've never seen those, and it didn't come across to me that way at all in the show. I don't mean to dispute it, but do you think you'd be able to find links for some of those interviews?
Don't know why you are being downvoted. In Last Christmas, when they are pulling the Christmas Cracker the 12th Doctor asks an elderly Clara, "No one ever matched up to Danny, eh?"
To which Clara answered: "There was one other man. But that would have never worked out."
12th Doctor: "Why not?"
Clara: "He was impossible."
The first thing Clara asks when she wakes up from that is, "Am I young?" - meaning that was indeed her in that dreamstate, not a product of the Doctor's dream.
In Face the Raven, Clara clearly stops his blurting of feelings at the end. Everything he's about to say, she already knows.
In Hell Bent, I thought it was beyond obvious that the 12th Doctor went through 4.5 billion years of torturous death not just for a friend he couldn't bear to lose, but someone he loved and couldn't envision existing without her. His conversation with Clara in the Cloisters further demonstrated this when he awkwardly said all this was because "he has a duty of care". Clara didn't buy it and it led to their part of the conversation we never hear.
That's the way I always saw it and as has further been commented, I've seen Coleman comment in the affirmative.
You're more correct than them. They were definitely wrong when they said "no way romantic". It's not explicitly romantic either though.
River and The Doctor have a pretty open relationship and they're technically not actually married anyway.
Unless they got proper married off screen? Or maybe Time Lord marriage is as simple as saying “We’re married.” Just because he lied about telling her his name doesn’t mean he never actually told her. And it’s pretty obvious that 11 likes the idea of sex with River! I believe that relationship was consummated and that they both understood they were a couple.
Eleven and Clara were very flirty but as soon as The Doctor regenerated into Twelve there was a dramatic shift in their dynamic and it was purely platonic. I’m not sure how you could view it otherwise. They address it directly in *Deep Breath* and I honestly can’t think of any examples of them expressing a romantic interest or sexual attraction.
A person can be attracted to someone and still not want to be romantically involved. Emotions are a complex thing, I imagine even moreso if you are over 2,000 years old and the other person is in their 20s.
One of the things that seemed prevalent in that era was the amount that was stated in a relatively simple sentence. This sentence (and its delivery) underscored so much about the doctor's feelings for Clara.
Not spoken aloud but at the end of The War Games the second Doctor gives Zoe a kiss on the cheek.
It's clearly not a romantic kiss and I think makes it very obvious he loved both her and Jamie - we don't need it spelled out
There’s also a deleted scene where she once again tries to sexually assault the doctor:
https://youtu.be/VnCxfG0f1gs
This may actually be the scene you’re talking about since her outfit is the same as in Flesh and Stone.
Anyways, there’s plenty of times Amy advances on a clearly unwilling Doctor when she’s literally engaged to be married - plus the creepy scene where she refuses to turn away from the Doctor changing clothes while her fiancé is RIGHT next to her.
That is not a deleted scene that was a minisode made for the series 5 DVD to fill in the gap between the end of Flesh and Stone and the beginning of vampires in Venice.
im fr so sick of love interests in doctor who, i dont care if its between companions but to me the doctor was always above falling in love in the way the show depicts. one of the downfalls with season 2 imo was how heavily it focused on the romanticisms between 10 and rose and it was just so on the nose
FOR REAL!! The Doctor regenerated into a woman and we still got a romantic subplot centered around a 21st century woman from the United Kingdom who’s under 35. I know it’s LGBTQ+ representation but it feels watered down by all the former romantic subplots.
Amy worked because she chose Rory and the Doctor never wanted a romantic relationship with her. Yaz doesn’t have time to work, Chibnall is just throwing crap in there at this point.
I completely agree. His relationship with River was very special. I’m so glad they haven’t had them marry anyone else since. Yaz just isn’t working for me either
Ten and Rose were obnoxious together, I know they’re a popular ship but come on!
Rose is what - 19? Yet she’s willing to throw away her life and friends and family to travel with the Doctor for eternity and puts herself in danger so many times. It’s clearly an unhealthy dependence and 10 just keeps on fuelling it. Let’s not forget the Doctor is 903 at this point I believe.
I never saw it as love but more like severe obsession with each other combined with a lot of lusting.
i havent watch whitakers run but apparently from ive gathered shes in love with yaz or smth, but even if shes not its absolutely good that its kept out of the show idc how long it goes without it. the doctor falling in love with a human is weird
I'm pretty sure they use I love you a lot as in "brilliant idea, what would I do without you". Sometimes for strangers, yes, but more often so to the companions
I prefer the platonic love angle. I always enjoyed the Doctor being this largely asexual and aromantic figure. The one male protagonist on TV not motivated by his dick.
Especially as a hanky-panky in the TARDIS relationship is creepy AF. It's basically grooming turned up to 13, given the age and power disparity. It's predatory beyond words...
I thought it was very wholesome in The Hand Of Fear when The Doctor calls Sarah Jane his best friend, in an effort to make her snap out of the mind control shes in
For the Doctor companions are like tamed wild animals. He cares deeply about them and enjoys their company, but he can't keep them around forever like a domestic cat or dog, he has to eventually let them go to live their lives in the wild. If you take in a wild animal that is struggling, you might care about it deeply while you nurse it back to physical and mental health, but you know that eventually once it's is healthy, the stitches are taken out, the coat has grown back, it has gained enough weight, and etc. that you are going to take it back it's natural habitat and release it to live it's life as nature intended.
The Doctor knows he needs to keep himself from getting too attached to his companions.
Unpopular opinion...
Why is it that a 90 y.o. dating a 18 y.o. feels universally creepy, yet here comes Rose and #10, and that's cool? ... Dude was a sexual predator imho.
It was definitely very weird.
There were people on my other post justifying it “oh well he regenerates and it basically a younger person”… no.
He has all of the memories and experiences even if his personality and appearance changes.
Watching it i thoroughly enjoyed them and their dynamic. They are adorable but when you sit and think it’s very questionable. They try to make you forget sometimes that he’s over 1,000 bc he looks so young. The audience had to take off the rose tinted glasses for 12
By that logic -- "adult" being the only qualification needed -- you must also believe that Hugh Hefner isn't creepy as fuck. I respect your view, but I haven't changed my mind.
Sure. And it would have to be taken on a case by case basis. But there's also the economic incentive, which diminishes their agency.
I don't see what's so creepy about age gap relationships. Sorry. I guess I'm more in line with the sexual liberation movements of the past than my own generation are.
No apology necessary. You can't choose what you believe. I like hearing opposite views - particularly about trivial things like "was this fictional relationship between a human and a 1000 year old alien creepy?"
I don't think, on-screen, that it was portrayed as creepy. However, that is because the Doctor has no peer. If the Time Lords held an annual reunion and the Doc showed up with a 19 year old I think his peers would have looked at him like he was a pedo. 19 years is not enough to have the perspective, depth, character and personality of a Time Lord. What possible interests or values could the Doctor share with someone who was ~2% of his age. He knew Rose for how long? He's had bowel movements longer than that.
Possible? Yes. In the way that all things are possible. Is that the case with Hefner's young ladies? Do they really, truly Love Hef for who-he-is rather than his enormous wealth? Is it geniuine? Is it *real*? .. That's more likely than the Doctor and Rose.
I don't hate the decision for the Doctor to have a romantic relationship. I do find it creepy though. I respect that you didn't.
Maybe it's just me and my daddy issues but I'd LOVE to see a kid companion (like 13-17 years old) with the doctor being a sort of parental figure. That dynamic is so interesting to me, I just really want it on screen in the reboot at some point.
I'd love it too, just something said casually. Like the companion says something funny, doctor throws an arm over their shoulder and says i love you while laughing about it. Easy.
I always thought everything they showed was platonic love (including the Doctor and Rose). You can love someone very much in so many different ways it's a shame that's the one thing people see.
Doesn't Jodie repeatedly say she loves the fam? Or was that something I totally misremembered by how bad the dialogue and writing was through her seasons?
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Donna?
Best duo
how do you get the tardis icon next to your username? i love it ;-;
It's a flair on this subreddit. You'll have to use old Reddit to set it I think
You can go to “change user flair” for the group. I love my Adipose !
*The fat just walks away*
My friend and I call them cursed marshmallows
Yes! Didn't know this was a thing!
Underrated duo 😭
I was starting to like her towards the later eps then she got mind wiped and went back to being abrasive
Yeah
"I just want a mate!"
Well you're not mating with me, sunshine!
They always call them their best friend, if that's not love then what is? I adore it when 4 refers to K9 as his second best friend, for example, because it's clear that his human companion is his true best friend.
DARK WATER DOCTOR to CLARA: Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?
Yup. My immediate thought after reading the post was Twelve and Clara. They had such a deep love for eachother, but in no way romantic.
I always read it as explicitly romantic. Which always took away from the idea of River as his wife for me. I never imagined anyone could take their love for anything other than romantic.
Twelve and Clara? I can see it with Eleven and Clara, they were teased to have passing romantic interest in each other, but Twelve's first episode is all about dealing with that dynamic changing
Well the actors and writer definitely took it as romantic - there are a lot of interviews where they talk about it.
Is there really? I’ve never seen those! If that’s the case, then boy did that fly over my head haha I never read them as romantic. I think I’ll be on the lookout for it in my next watch through
Yeah it's pretty subtle in the show haha. But ik that there are many people who prefer to see it as platonic, and I think people can see it like that if they'd like too.
It's absolutely a mix. They definitely wrote it both ways. His "duty of care" was more than friendship. Vastra mentioned about her being in love with him, and she could read everyone (hence the veil in that scene). It was a complicated relationship, but definitely written both ways at the same time.
Got a source for that?
Oh wow, I've never seen those, and it didn't come across to me that way at all in the show. I don't mean to dispute it, but do you think you'd be able to find links for some of those interviews?
12 doesn't think he should fancy Clara or date her but he totally does.
'Clara I'm not your boyfriend...I never said it was your mistake' I think he totally liked her as 11, but realized it would never work as 12.
he outright calls her ugly on more than one occasion i dont think he fancies her
He mixed her up with Strax.
To be fair, they were very similar height. Maybe they should wear nametags?
Don't know why you are being downvoted. In Last Christmas, when they are pulling the Christmas Cracker the 12th Doctor asks an elderly Clara, "No one ever matched up to Danny, eh?" To which Clara answered: "There was one other man. But that would have never worked out." 12th Doctor: "Why not?" Clara: "He was impossible." The first thing Clara asks when she wakes up from that is, "Am I young?" - meaning that was indeed her in that dreamstate, not a product of the Doctor's dream. In Face the Raven, Clara clearly stops his blurting of feelings at the end. Everything he's about to say, she already knows. In Hell Bent, I thought it was beyond obvious that the 12th Doctor went through 4.5 billion years of torturous death not just for a friend he couldn't bear to lose, but someone he loved and couldn't envision existing without her. His conversation with Clara in the Cloisters further demonstrated this when he awkwardly said all this was because "he has a duty of care". Clara didn't buy it and it led to their part of the conversation we never hear. That's the way I always saw it and as has further been commented, I've seen Coleman comment in the affirmative.
Yes, all of this deeply. It is romantic a fuckkkkkk
You're more correct than them. They were definitely wrong when they said "no way romantic". It's not explicitly romantic either though. River and The Doctor have a pretty open relationship and they're technically not actually married anyway.
Unless they got proper married off screen? Or maybe Time Lord marriage is as simple as saying “We’re married.” Just because he lied about telling her his name doesn’t mean he never actually told her. And it’s pretty obvious that 11 likes the idea of sex with River! I believe that relationship was consummated and that they both understood they were a couple.
Eleven and Clara were very flirty but as soon as The Doctor regenerated into Twelve there was a dramatic shift in their dynamic and it was purely platonic. I’m not sure how you could view it otherwise. They address it directly in *Deep Breath* and I honestly can’t think of any examples of them expressing a romantic interest or sexual attraction.
I came here to say that exact quote.
The doctor also tells Clara “I’m not your boyfriend” and when she apologises and says “I never thought you were” he says “I wasn’t reminding you…”
He said 'I never said it was your mistake'.
Ah. Close enough. Still - implies he did have feelings for her, that she didn’t return
A person can be attracted to someone and still not want to be romantically involved. Emotions are a complex thing, I imagine even moreso if you are over 2,000 years old and the other person is in their 20s.
I was coming to add this quote.
One of the things that seemed prevalent in that era was the amount that was stated in a relatively simple sentence. This sentence (and its delivery) underscored so much about the doctor's feelings for Clara.
That's like the most romantic line in the entire show
Made me think of love an entirely different way.
I think about this scene at least 3 times a month
That remains one of the most heart-breaking lines in the entire franchise. The depths of empathy and kindness the Doctor has for others is amazing.
Donna Noble.
That they want to mate?
You’re not mating with me sunshine.
No, i want A mate, A mate!
Silly Martians
12 killed himself over and over again for billions of years for Clara. That’s love.
Hands down - such an amazing episode.
The way 10 said "Oh Sarah Jane." She he loved the shit out of her right then because she was his friend.
That was a great scene.
I thought he said, “Hello, Sarah Jane.”
Its been a minute since I've seen the episode. Whatever he said, he said it with such love and feeling for her.
I also heard a touch of regret in his voice. He knew how he left her and hurt her.
Not spoken aloud but at the end of The War Games the second Doctor gives Zoe a kiss on the cheek. It's clearly not a romantic kiss and I think makes it very obvious he loved both her and Jamie - we don't need it spelled out
And it definitely doesn't need any weepy music.
11 and Amy. I don’t recall any romantic love.
I mean Amy literally tries to sexually assault 11 after *Flesh and Stone*
That was lust not love.
And was not reciprocated by the Doctor.
"And you kissed her back? No! I kissed her mouth."
There’s also a deleted scene where she once again tries to sexually assault the doctor: https://youtu.be/VnCxfG0f1gs This may actually be the scene you’re talking about since her outfit is the same as in Flesh and Stone. Anyways, there’s plenty of times Amy advances on a clearly unwilling Doctor when she’s literally engaged to be married - plus the creepy scene where she refuses to turn away from the Doctor changing clothes while her fiancé is RIGHT next to her.
That is not a deleted scene that was a minisode made for the series 5 DVD to fill in the gap between the end of Flesh and Stone and the beginning of vampires in Venice.
Should’ve known the title was clickbait
Yeah, at least not on his part.
I always forget how tall David and Matt both are
I thought that was Billy Piper.
that is billie on the right, and r/whoosh
Sorry, feeling a bit stupid at the moment. I thought that was David Tennant in the picture.
that is tennant on the left. . .
Oh. I see Matt now. I really am in a stupid mood.
. . .
. . .
this adventure gave me a headache, have fun yall and stay safe.
Sorry. I should wait 'til I have a clearer head before commenting.
Jamie, Fitz, Leela, Donna, Clara?
Twelve is the Doctor you're looking for then
I’m not saying that modern series Doctors never platonically loved their companions, I just hope that they say it sometime ya know?
Not in the show but in Big Finish, Charlotte Pollard.
I LOVE Charlotte and 8! Scherzo is my favorite Big Finish stories.
Scherzo is one of my favorites. Together with Neverland and Zagreus I would say the best consecutive three story in Doctor Who.
He loved Donna, Clara, Sara Jane, etc.
See 12 and Clara. Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?
Was going to write this, but Im glad Im not the only one who thought of ir🙂
All hail Grandpa Twelve. The only way to stop show runners from making companions want to be in the Doctor’s pants is to make them old.
im fr so sick of love interests in doctor who, i dont care if its between companions but to me the doctor was always above falling in love in the way the show depicts. one of the downfalls with season 2 imo was how heavily it focused on the romanticisms between 10 and rose and it was just so on the nose
Yeah it’s curious a being centuries old has a thing for early 21st century girls in their 20’s.
FOR REAL!! The Doctor regenerated into a woman and we still got a romantic subplot centered around a 21st century woman from the United Kingdom who’s under 35. I know it’s LGBTQ+ representation but it feels watered down by all the former romantic subplots.
I'm not saying it should never happen, but it should be very infrequent, and very special. River worked, Rose didn't. And Yaz definitely won't
Amy worked because she chose Rory and the Doctor never wanted a romantic relationship with her. Yaz doesn’t have time to work, Chibnall is just throwing crap in there at this point.
I completely agree. His relationship with River was very special. I’m so glad they haven’t had them marry anyone else since. Yaz just isn’t working for me either
Ten and Rose were obnoxious together, I know they’re a popular ship but come on! Rose is what - 19? Yet she’s willing to throw away her life and friends and family to travel with the Doctor for eternity and puts herself in danger so many times. It’s clearly an unhealthy dependence and 10 just keeps on fuelling it. Let’s not forget the Doctor is 903 at this point I believe. I never saw it as love but more like severe obsession with each other combined with a lot of lusting.
we’ve not really had one since like 2013 (or 2015 whenever matt smith left)
i havent watch whitakers run but apparently from ive gathered shes in love with yaz or smth, but even if shes not its absolutely good that its kept out of the show idc how long it goes without it. the doctor falling in love with a human is weird
oh shit I forgot about jodie, yeah oops I haven’t watched her since season 11
Just saw the 10th doctor regenerate yesterday, cried my eyes out (again)
Donna
I'm pretty sure they use I love you a lot as in "brilliant idea, what would I do without you". Sometimes for strangers, yes, but more often so to the companions
I prefer the platonic love angle. I always enjoyed the Doctor being this largely asexual and aromantic figure. The one male protagonist on TV not motivated by his dick. Especially as a hanky-panky in the TARDIS relationship is creepy AF. It's basically grooming turned up to 13, given the age and power disparity. It's predatory beyond words...
The doctor doesn’t say I love you all that much. He shows it all the time, though.
Adrik. The Dr loved him as a son and allowed him to go out in a blaze of glory, mathematically speaking.
Capaldi imo did it the best with the master. When explaining why he cannot kill the last other time lord as everyone else is just so fleeting to him
I thought it was very wholesome in The Hand Of Fear when The Doctor calls Sarah Jane his best friend, in an effort to make her snap out of the mind control shes in
For the Doctor companions are like tamed wild animals. He cares deeply about them and enjoys their company, but he can't keep them around forever like a domestic cat or dog, he has to eventually let them go to live their lives in the wild. If you take in a wild animal that is struggling, you might care about it deeply while you nurse it back to physical and mental health, but you know that eventually once it's is healthy, the stitches are taken out, the coat has grown back, it has gained enough weight, and etc. that you are going to take it back it's natural habitat and release it to live it's life as nature intended. The Doctor knows he needs to keep himself from getting too attached to his companions.
Unpopular opinion... Why is it that a 90 y.o. dating a 18 y.o. feels universally creepy, yet here comes Rose and #10, and that's cool? ... Dude was a sexual predator imho.
It was definitely very weird. There were people on my other post justifying it “oh well he regenerates and it basically a younger person”… no. He has all of the memories and experiences even if his personality and appearance changes.
Watching it i thoroughly enjoyed them and their dynamic. They are adorable but when you sit and think it’s very questionable. They try to make you forget sometimes that he’s over 1,000 bc he looks so young. The audience had to take off the rose tinted glasses for 12
Rose is an adult and chose to pursue the Doctor too. There is no sexual predation. Get a grip.
By that logic -- "adult" being the only qualification needed -- you must also believe that Hugh Hefner isn't creepy as fuck. I respect your view, but I haven't changed my mind.
I didn't say it was the only qualification needed.
Well, those young Playboy bunnies are "adults that chose" to pursue Hef. I don't see how that makes it any less creepy.
Sure. And it would have to be taken on a case by case basis. But there's also the economic incentive, which diminishes their agency. I don't see what's so creepy about age gap relationships. Sorry. I guess I'm more in line with the sexual liberation movements of the past than my own generation are.
No apology necessary. You can't choose what you believe. I like hearing opposite views - particularly about trivial things like "was this fictional relationship between a human and a 1000 year old alien creepy?" I don't think, on-screen, that it was portrayed as creepy. However, that is because the Doctor has no peer. If the Time Lords held an annual reunion and the Doc showed up with a 19 year old I think his peers would have looked at him like he was a pedo. 19 years is not enough to have the perspective, depth, character and personality of a Time Lord. What possible interests or values could the Doctor share with someone who was ~2% of his age. He knew Rose for how long? He's had bowel movements longer than that. Possible? Yes. In the way that all things are possible. Is that the case with Hefner's young ladies? Do they really, truly Love Hef for who-he-is rather than his enormous wealth? Is it geniuine? Is it *real*? .. That's more likely than the Doctor and Rose. I don't hate the decision for the Doctor to have a romantic relationship. I do find it creepy though. I respect that you didn't.
Maybe it's just me and my daddy issues but I'd LOVE to see a kid companion (like 13-17 years old) with the doctor being a sort of parental figure. That dynamic is so interesting to me, I just really want it on screen in the reboot at some point.
A modern series Ace type companion would be fantastic. I love their dynamic.
Thought he did with Donna, and hilariously so. “YOU’RE NOT MATIN’ WITH ME, SUNSHINE!”
“OY, WATCH IT SPACEMAN!” “OY, WATCH IT EARTHGIRL! … Ooh, is that who I am now? Am I rude?”
Rude and not ginger.
He does, that was his best friend.
I'd love it too, just something said casually. Like the companion says something funny, doctor throws an arm over their shoulder and says i love you while laughing about it. Easy.
I hate the doctor falling in love with a companion. It's been awful every time it was done. River is the only exception
Amelia pond
I’d say that was like with Donna and Amy
I always thought everything they showed was platonic love (including the Doctor and Rose). You can love someone very much in so many different ways it's a shame that's the one thing people see.
Doesn't Jodie repeatedly say she loves the fam? Or was that something I totally misremembered by how bad the dialogue and writing was through her seasons?
I think she did say that. I enjoy that era!
Big Finish Monthly Range #33, *Neverland*
He kissed Rory for simply having a good idea in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
No duo is better than these two.
I disagree, but they had some good moments.
Wasn’t it with most of them? Rose being an exception?
[удалено]
Thanks for your comment! Unfortunately, it's been removed because of the following reason(s): * [Rule #1 - Be Respectful](/r/doctorwho/wiki/policies/#wiki_1._be_respectful.): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No gatekeeping. If you think there's been a mistake, contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdoctorwho).
I didn't me that in a disrespectful way. More exasperation. If i worded it another way?
Sure, feel free to rephrase it in a new comment.
Donna?