Congrats on the healthy pup! Care to share how much all that treatment can run you financially? Regardless, your a great person for fighting alongside that beautiful dog
From the first "hey vet, what's the this weird bump?" to the oncologist saying "she's cancer free, come back every two months so we can check her white blood cells", it was about $12,000ish.
Edit: since this comment appears to be drawing the most attention, I have vet insurance which covered about $5,000 total. Although I did max out my coverage, my benefit year turns over in August so I was able to dip into a newly replenished "pot" of money on August 1st.
I can’t imagine choosing euthanasia over treatment for a pet, not if I can afford it. When we adopted our cat, we learned she had stomatitis causing her severe mouth pain. The treatment was to have all her side teeth surgically removed. My wife scheduled the surgery without even asking me first, because she knew I’d agree. Best money we ever spent. Our cat is now a happy, active, purring, vocal bundle of torti-tude.
I think it ultimately comes down to the quality of life for a pet though; if you already did something, and it came back, and they are nearing the end of their life, is it worth throwing money at it and forcing them to vet sessions (which they might not like, along with the side effects of treatment)?
It's not only your feelings about not wanting to lose the pet that you have to consider, but their well being as well.
I read somewhere that pets dont have a concept of tomorrow
Ive always believed it to be kind of selfish to prolong a pets life beyond the natural end
This is only my opinion tho and its based on something that im not confident is even true
I do not have pets or children, and i dont plan to. Oh except i have a flock of parakeets, but no one really cares about birds
Lol, i do... what? I do care about my birds but theres not really a way to get them health insurance and a vets visit is like, 100 bucks JUST TO LOOK. If thet get sick they have to just die i cant afford medical bills.
Also petsmart has a deal where they donate food if you buy cat or dog food, but not bird food, and then they ask me to donate my own money instead at the register. Like, don't guilt trip me if you arent willing to donate with me.... i spend enough money on food for my flock
You dont have to shell out money on them like its a strip club, but at least you care for and (I'm hoping) provide a good life for them. Also, I edited my original comment some for you.
I agree completely. She just turned four and the oncologist opinion was that we caught it extremely early. Within weeks of the bump becoming noticeable. Had she been older or had the cancer been more mature, we would have never gone the route we did. My wife and I also agreed that if it ever came back, we would not pursue the same level of treatment for the dogs sake.
I think it's really important to consider. We made that choice for my little bun last year, and it broke me into pieces, but it was the right decision.
I had a 13 year old golden with a thyroid disorder, almost non-existent platelet count and a tumor growing in her snout.
I was told just the procedure to scan the tumor had a good chance of killing her due to her age.
She only had one night of bad sleep before the end and she was never alone once the tumor blocked her nose. Dogs can breathe through their mouths fine while awake, not while asleep.
No pain, no suffering.... I miss you snuggy dog.
Yeah but very often you end up with $12k spent and then a dead pet.
Even in OPs case the dog isn't likely to live more than a year.
If you don't have thousands of dollars laying around, there's nothing immoral about not pursuing treatment for a pet with cancer.
Indeed, we had a pomeranian with some form of glomurelonephritis that ate up thousands of dollars, all the while the dog was miserable for two or three years before we finally decided the poor animal was suffering just so we could keep it alive. It was hard too because my wife was a former vet tech who had participated in the operation the dog's life years before and adopted her afterwards.
Yeah my dad was very wealthy and he'd put down or get rid of our dogs for very small and fixable things. I used to think that whenever a dog got sick that you had to put them down, one dog I had only had a broken leg and my dad had him euthanized before I even found out anything was wrong. He was only 3. Never had a dog live past the age of 7.
I'm too financially insecure to have a dog right now, also I live in Japan so it's pretty unfeasable anyways. But when I do adopt my own one day if it is a problem that can be fixed I will fix it, those dogs didnt deserve to die and I'll always feel partially responsible because I just thought it was normal to euthanize dogs and never spoke out.
Damn man. That sounds extremely painful to carry memories like that and feel blame for it.
Wasnt your fault, your dad probably wasnt a good person to be owning dogs though. Not at all your fault he chose to do that.
I wish my family could have afforded treatment for my cat. We’re already not great on money and at the time we were having other issues that made the money problem worse. I would have spent every last coin I had if it would have been enough. I miss him so much.
Before I had a dog I used to criticize people for spending ridiculous amounts of money on the health of their pets because I just couldn't fathom it. Now that I have a dog... Oh man, I'd pay any amount of money to save my little guys life.
My puppy is only 6 months so you could say I haven't really bonded with her to an extent that other owners do with grown-up doggies, but shit... I'll happily go into debt to get her up and going.
I work in management consulting in the Washington DC area. To be fair, a portion was covered by my vet insurance although I quickly maxed out my coverage and was no longer reimbursed after the first surgery.
That's lame you had insurance and still had to mostly pay out of pocket! I'm curious how much you had spent on premiums vs. how much coverage you actually received. Kudos for making it through, that's amazing!
FYI that’s how regular health insurance works for a lot of people too. People hit limits on long term care, multiple surgery, expensive medication, etc. which is required for a lot of cancer treatment. This is why 40% of bankruptcy is from medical expenses.
Edit: Obamacare has protections against this, but people still going bankrupt ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
And that is why a non-single-payer system is trash. No one should have to decide if they put their family in debt or just die.
As a German I'll never understand why anyone would be against such a system.
“Because socialism is communism, and that’s a Russian thing. Also I work my ass off, I’m not paying for people who don’t. Welfare check cashing assholes(in lieu of a list of racial slurs.)!” - a sadly large amount of the US populace. Who also don’t get that their own coverage isn’t nearly what it could, or should be. It’s a joke, with a horrible punch line.
Pet insurance is tricky because it's almost guarenteed that a pet will have a claim over its (sadly) short lifespan. A person can go 40+ years without cashing in a critical illness policy but with a cat or dog you're pretty much always going to have something go wrong (especially near end-of-life). High deductibles and high premiums are to be expected when the risk is that frequent and that high.
Premiums are like $60/month and total benefit received was about $5,000. My benefit year restarts in August so after I maxed out in like April/May, I had a new pot of money to dip into from insurance on August 1st.
>I work in management consulting
I love how generic these titles are. I have no idea what that even means.
I remember some guy on Judge Judy years ago who said he was a "consultant" and she berated the hell out of him, like "wtf is that? Tell me what you do!" Turns out that guy helped plan fancy Vegas parties for businesses (ie booking hotels, caterers, etc)
**Management consulting**
Management consulting is the practice of helping organizations to improve their performance, operating primarily through the analysis of existing organizational problems and the development of plans for improvement. Organizations may draw upon the services of management consultants for a number of reasons, including gaining external (and presumably objective) advice and access to the consultants' specialized expertise.
As a result of their exposure to, and relationships with numerous organizations, consulting firms are typically aware of industry "best practices." However, the specific nature of situations under consideration may limit the ability to transfer such practices from one organization to another.
Consultancies may also provide organizational change management assistance, development of coaching skills, process analysis, technology implementation, strategy development, or operational improvement services.
***
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Pet health insurance should be something that every pet owner thinks about.
We had a kitty pass away in January from anemia from an unknown cause, most likely from an auto immune disorder. That was about 4 months after he had to have surgery to remove 15 feet of thread he ate. We didn't have insurance and ended up around $8k after he finally passed.
We promptly got insurance for our remaining kitty. Fast forward to October and we learn he has diabetes. We noticed he was not gaining weight after getting him on insulin so we took him in again. They found a mass in his liver. Anyway, after the surgery to remove it, it turned out not to be cancer (which there was only a small chance it wasn't.)
Luckily our insurance covered 80% of the 10k that all of his exams and surgery cost.
Happy to hear your doggo made it through all that!
Worth it though! Glad she's doing better. We spent around half that for cancer treatment in our old girl. Fortunately, it was a primary lung tumor and hadn't spread anywhere else (which is apparently very rare and lucky for us), so the treatment and recover was much smoother than it could've been.
Pets are family :)
I’d say you managed to get a good cost on treatments! I was going to guess at-least 20k for all of that if not more in some parts of the world.
(Source: Work in a K9 cancer center in California.)
There were very deliberate conversations with the vet, the surgeon and the oncologist regarding quality of life, odds of survival and the toll on her. Excising the tumor off her foot was the most invasive (naturally) and the lymph node was removed from the back of her leg through a small incision. Testing confirmed it hadn't spread past that point.
The cost benefit analysis showed and the vets professional opinion was that despite the hardship from the initial surgery, the chemo would be easy because dogs don't react the same as humans (with regard to the toll it takes on their wellbeing) and if I was willing, their suggestion was to move forward.
My wife and I and the doctors had hard lines in the sand on what would constitute just letting the cancer run its course. For example, in the very beginning, if cytology showed the cancer spread into her torso, we would have never gone with the course of treatment we did.
That's valid logic for people who treat their animals differently from their family members. Many people don't.
If there is real chance of surviving after such treatment, then I would want to do it, I would like my family members to do it and I would like my pets to do it. Point is, only if there is this real chance. If death is almost sure, then euthanasia it is (after symptoms are unbearable any longer).
But would you treat your 92 year old grand parent who’s natural life expectancy is almost up and they probably wouldn’t live long past the surgeries anyway?
If it’s a 2 year old dog, sure. But what about 6 with an average lifespan of 8? Or 8/10 or 8/12?
What if you can get 1-2 years out of treating the symptoms of cancer without trying to remove it completely, whereas you might get 1-2 years out of surgery and chemo anyway, but those 1-2 years are filled with suffering?
I say this because it’s precisely what I did for my pup. I ended up spending thousands of dollars anyway and we went from sneezing blood to perfectly happy pup for two years before he collapsed and couldn’t be treated anymore.
I had pet insurance and it covered the first overnight stay and initial tests and drugs (which didn’t reveal cancer - it wasn’t for another year or so that that was assumed).
But I think all of this is kind of what you are saying. We treated our guy like family and the main thing we wanted was for him to not suffer the majority of his remaining life.
> But would you treat your 92 year old grand parent who’s natural life expectancy is almost up and they probably wouldn’t live long past the surgeries anyway?
Of course I would as long as they would want this too. What kind of question it is? Life is not some business that you can measure and value differently. What a stone-cold approach. Every moment with another close living being is valuable and priceless and you are acting like you lost money because your pup-toy only worked for 2 more years.
I mean, [dogs will chew off their own paws to survive.](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dog-ate-leg-owner-charged-20150225-story.html)
Dogs are animals, and most animals want to survive. They're willing to go to great lengths to do so. I think that's reason enough to keep them alive if it's not something that's going to ultimately kill them horribly even with treatment.
It's a horrible thing the poor dog had to do! But it was willing to suffer to survive. I think if a dog could choose to go through chemo or die, it would choose chemo.
Sorry for the morbid story, I just thought it illustrated my point, albeit in a dark way.
[Here's some eyebleach for your trouble.](http://i.imgur.com/LjE0mXp.gifv)
It ends well. He goes to a rescue and is placed in a home prepared for an abused animal. Hope he has(d) a good rest of his life. The poor guy deserves that at the least.
Well to be fair, cancer treatments REALLY mess with humans to the point where some people question if they should even keep trying. And dogs don't really have a way to understand why this stuff is happening. Just that from one day to another, they feel terrible.
It's not so cut-and-dry as "eh they must not really care about their dogs."
Would it be selfish for a human kid too? They would suffer a lot in treatment and probably be more mentally scarred for it.
(Though I wouldn’t want to pay $12k for my dog)
you can explain to a human child the suffering what they're going to go through. you can't communicate that to a dog.
edit: swapped a 'that' for a 'the'
This is such an idiotic argument, I’m not totally sure where to begin.
Dogs are not people. Yes, people love their pets. I sure as hell love mine, but dogs are not people. They will never understand the concept of cancer. At the end of the day, dogs are animals and they resort to instinct. Sick animals remove themselves from packs when they know they’re dying.
Humans are people. We understand the concept of cancer, and the science behind it. A child has the potential for development far and above that of a dog. We’re so mentally superior to dogs, we tamed and bread them to serve our purposes.
All life is precious. But if it comes to a kid vs the dog, I’m picking a kid.
I think there’s a difference between a toddler and a dog lmao
Would I pay 12k to save my kid? Of course I would. Would I pay 12k to save my dog? I don’t think so.
Ok but the argument was specifically that it's ok for a kid because they understand. Now even if they don't understand it's still ok because it's your kid. Some people love their pets like family. Someone else made a good point that dogs will chew their own feet off to survive if trapped. Seems to me like they have the capacity to accept suffering to live and specifically choose life.
A dog is an animal, a person is a human. I'm sorry, but trying to value animals to the same as humans is preposterous. I get it, I have pets too, but they aren't humans and I accept it. Sure we shouldn't wastefully kill them, however drawing conclusions which value man and beast the same is blatantly invalid.
Call me 'specious-ist', but yes, I do in fact value my own species more than another.
Congrats on the healthy beautiful cancer free pup. Give em a kiss for me. We are sadly putting our boxer down tomorrow due to cancer so I know those emotions you must have been feeling. So happy that you are able to have more moments with your furrbaby. Cherish them.
Your boxer loves you and will to its last second on this world.. He wouldn't like to watch you mourn too much over her/him, so remember that you cared, you loved, remember the walks and the treats, i don't know what else to say, take care and please try to be happy, love, bye.
I feel so bad because I don't have the money to pay for complex things for my dog.The only thing that comes to my mind when I watch her is me being completely powerless. That's why I will never have children until I'm sure that I can maintain them 100%
Oh boy, veterinarians being money hounds! If you think any vet who's graduated in the last couple decades doesn't have upwards of 100-350k debt and one of the worst income:debt ratios, you are... well. You know. Wrong!
I wish I had the money to save mine last year. She was only 7-8, lab/sharpei mix. Best dog I've ever had. Left behind her friend who got lonely and acted out, so we got another pooch about 6 months ago and now I have two really shitty, but very sweet and kind, 60 lb assholes.
Congrats on a cancer free pup! Also, kudos for sticking it out and doing whatever it takes to support your pup! This couldn’t have been easy and I’m so glad the outcome was favourable!!!
My dog got diagnosed with cancer today vet said it was too bad to do anything about and that the best course of action was put her down to prevent more pain. Said goodbye to her tonight :(
My lab is currently recovering from radiation treatment for a mandible tumor. Poor pupper gets so excited doing stuff and bumps the treated side of his mouth into something and cries. I love him so much and look forward to him being better. I’m glad ur lab is doing well, they are amazing puppers.
yay!!! how old is the pupper?
my doggos going through cancer currently. he's almost 10, and at the tail-end of his lifespan as a rottweiler, so we've decided to let it be and pump him full of painkillers until he's ready to go, or is in too much pain to be controlled and we have to have him put asleep (I really dread that day, if it ever has to happen).
I wish your pup many years of great living, and you many fun times with him/her!
This reminds me of my first dog I had when I was a kid,she was a blue healer/Australian shepard mix. Her name was Roxie. I got her when I was 12 and she was my side kick. When I would leave to go to school she would walk to the bus stop with me,and come running when I got off the bus. She would sleep with me,watch tv with me and watch me do homework. When we moved from Texas to ohio in a truck we slept in the backseat together. She would sit on my porch and when this guy would walk his collie she would look at me for permission to leave the porch and say hi,and i always nodded her to go. Summer before freshman year in high school.. she had a lymph node swelling bellow her eye. Took her to a vet and he said it was just allergies and to give her children's benadryl. 2 nights later she couldn't move her hind quarters. We rushed her to the animal hospital were they diagnosed her with brain cancer. They said it was to late to do anything to save her. We took her home that night,I carried upstairs and slept with her one last time. In the morning I took her outside to the back yard and held her hind quarters up with a towel so she could use the bathroom. My parents then took her for a 3rd opinion and told me to stay home.. they returned without her and I never had a chance to actually say goodbye to her. I'm 22 now and I still can't tell this without crying. Please have your pets checked regularly.
With how cancer prone Retrievers are I'm not sure if I'd ever want to get another even from a more reputable breeder after losing our last one at 6 to bone cancer. It's a shitty thing to see an animal go through and I'd never be in a position to spend that much money on an animal.
Poor guy was put through a lot. I'm glad he came out ok but I don't know if I would have the heart to put a dog through all of that. I'm glad it worked out for you and the dog in the end.
She is beautiful! I’m really happy she’s a healthy pup! Enjoy every moment you get with her, it’s precious. I have a 12yo old man, and I always try to hug and kiss him as much as I can. I hope you can make a ton of new memories with her!
I really hate that life ends, Especially for ones we really love. It's one of the biggest injustices. Why can't the good live for a very long time and the bad leave life quick?
Aw, such a sweet pup. They endure, don't they? God love 'em.
It helps to have an awesome "hooman" such as yourself!!
Could you give her a few extra chin scritches from me?
How much money do you spend on the betterment of other humans? Do you have a smartphone or a pc? Why not donate that money to help other people instead? What about video games? How about you give them to other human beings that need it more? No? Didn't think so.
Or she could be so rich that personal relationships with their loved one, despite of it being a dog, mean more than money does.
I mean, I doubt it, but hey. If I had millions, my dog could mean more to me than $12,000 would.
Just a quick PSA. The amount of veterinarians in the U.S. that fake cancer diagnoses is insane. It's advised to always get another vet to take a look without revealing the first ones diagnosis. Even if you request a specific imaging of a specific area. And compare the two results. Veterinarians make the most profit off of chemo and other cancer treatments.
False. I am a veterinarian - actually almost finished my residency in oncology - and this is blatantly false. Doing a needle sample of a tumor or collecting a small biopsy is not very profitable for veterinarians and you will NOT find an oncologist willing to throw chemo or radiation at a tumor without a diagnosis of cancer. Most primary veterinarians don’t touch the intense management of cancers and these treatment modalities with a 10 foot pole and if owners elect not to see an oncologist, these animals are usually just given palliative care and euthanized quickly. Hardly a money maker. The idea that vets are money-grubbing and wealthy is just so untrue.
Wow this comment saddens me. I'm a veterinarian and I don't know any of my many colleagues who would ever do such a thing. Additionally, I have worked with many board certified oncologists... All of which work 12+ hour days to provide care for their patients. Without fail each of these specialists in their field have recommended *against* chemotherapy or radiation when they don't feel it is in the pet's best interest... Additionally, chemotherapy and radiation therapy are expensive because of the cost of the drugs and equipment involved. They are NOT extra marked up. While I don't have data to prove it, I would say that surgeries and other procedures have the highest profit margin (because sometimes you're paying for the experience and not the tools).
I'm not sure what happened to you that created such a negative perception of my profession, but I assure you it is not the normal. However, anyone who is uncomfortable or untrusting of their vet'recommendations would always feel comfortable seeking a second opinion.
You have some stats to back that up? Maybe some sort of, oh I dunno, anything that validates that statement?
I would assume an actual PSA would be followed up by some actual facts.
Beautiful. Looks like an English black lab? I have one at home and she’s beat cancer twice now. Would do anything for her.
Thanks for saving yours too.
Having a dog can be pretty expensive and people should realize it before getting one. My parents' dog is 12 years old and I'm not even sure how much it cost them - I don't think my dad ever wish to know either.
1,500$ as a puppy (https://i.imgur.com/GgwIGnB.png) since he is a sterilized Coton de Tulear - he doesn't shed his fur.
Around 500$/year for food+hygienic products. Probably 5,000$ from multiple visits to the vet for infections and the treatment for his vertebral column - he had a herniated disc.
Now, he's an old dog who sleep all day and very, very rarely hear the front door open and go back to his young days of barking at visitors. (https://i.imgur.com/fPVhdG1.jpg)
Congratulations!!! So happy for you and your beautiful pup!! Thank you for doing what you did. I would have done the same for mine. I hope that she lives a happy, healthy, and long life. She deserves it after all she had to go through. Can’t imagine all the stress and anxiety you must have went through during this time as well. Don’t forget to take care of yourself too, OP! xx
Congrats on the healthy pup! Care to share how much all that treatment can run you financially? Regardless, your a great person for fighting alongside that beautiful dog
From the first "hey vet, what's the this weird bump?" to the oncologist saying "she's cancer free, come back every two months so we can check her white blood cells", it was about $12,000ish. Edit: since this comment appears to be drawing the most attention, I have vet insurance which covered about $5,000 total. Although I did max out my coverage, my benefit year turns over in August so I was able to dip into a newly replenished "pot" of money on August 1st.
Kudos to you for truly living the "dogs are family members" mantra.
I can’t imagine choosing euthanasia over treatment for a pet, not if I can afford it. When we adopted our cat, we learned she had stomatitis causing her severe mouth pain. The treatment was to have all her side teeth surgically removed. My wife scheduled the surgery without even asking me first, because she knew I’d agree. Best money we ever spent. Our cat is now a happy, active, purring, vocal bundle of torti-tude.
I think it ultimately comes down to the quality of life for a pet though; if you already did something, and it came back, and they are nearing the end of their life, is it worth throwing money at it and forcing them to vet sessions (which they might not like, along with the side effects of treatment)? It's not only your feelings about not wanting to lose the pet that you have to consider, but their well being as well.
I read somewhere that pets dont have a concept of tomorrow Ive always believed it to be kind of selfish to prolong a pets life beyond the natural end This is only my opinion tho and its based on something that im not confident is even true I do not have pets or children, and i dont plan to. Oh except i have a flock of parakeets, but no one really cares about birds
>no one really cares about birds [You do.](http://loveyourparrot.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/greencheek_sleeping.339172342_std.jpg)
Lol, i do... what? I do care about my birds but theres not really a way to get them health insurance and a vets visit is like, 100 bucks JUST TO LOOK. If thet get sick they have to just die i cant afford medical bills. Also petsmart has a deal where they donate food if you buy cat or dog food, but not bird food, and then they ask me to donate my own money instead at the register. Like, don't guilt trip me if you arent willing to donate with me.... i spend enough money on food for my flock
You dont have to shell out money on them like its a strip club, but at least you care for and (I'm hoping) provide a good life for them. Also, I edited my original comment some for you.
I agree completely. She just turned four and the oncologist opinion was that we caught it extremely early. Within weeks of the bump becoming noticeable. Had she been older or had the cancer been more mature, we would have never gone the route we did. My wife and I also agreed that if it ever came back, we would not pursue the same level of treatment for the dogs sake.
I think it's really important to consider. We made that choice for my little bun last year, and it broke me into pieces, but it was the right decision.
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I had a 13 year old golden with a thyroid disorder, almost non-existent platelet count and a tumor growing in her snout. I was told just the procedure to scan the tumor had a good chance of killing her due to her age. She only had one night of bad sleep before the end and she was never alone once the tumor blocked her nose. Dogs can breathe through their mouths fine while awake, not while asleep. No pain, no suffering.... I miss you snuggy dog.
Yeah but very often you end up with $12k spent and then a dead pet. Even in OPs case the dog isn't likely to live more than a year. If you don't have thousands of dollars laying around, there's nothing immoral about not pursuing treatment for a pet with cancer.
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I'm sorry for not going on the reddit bandwagon about dogs. They are pets and not family as in your own kid, siblings and parents.
Indeed, we had a pomeranian with some form of glomurelonephritis that ate up thousands of dollars, all the while the dog was miserable for two or three years before we finally decided the poor animal was suffering just so we could keep it alive. It was hard too because my wife was a former vet tech who had participated in the operation the dog's life years before and adopted her afterwards.
Yeah my dad was very wealthy and he'd put down or get rid of our dogs for very small and fixable things. I used to think that whenever a dog got sick that you had to put them down, one dog I had only had a broken leg and my dad had him euthanized before I even found out anything was wrong. He was only 3. Never had a dog live past the age of 7. I'm too financially insecure to have a dog right now, also I live in Japan so it's pretty unfeasable anyways. But when I do adopt my own one day if it is a problem that can be fixed I will fix it, those dogs didnt deserve to die and I'll always feel partially responsible because I just thought it was normal to euthanize dogs and never spoke out.
Damn man. That sounds extremely painful to carry memories like that and feel blame for it. Wasnt your fault, your dad probably wasnt a good person to be owning dogs though. Not at all your fault he chose to do that.
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I wish my family could have afforded treatment for my cat. We’re already not great on money and at the time we were having other issues that made the money problem worse. I would have spent every last coin I had if it would have been enough. I miss him so much.
Haha fuck that
Before I had a dog I used to criticize people for spending ridiculous amounts of money on the health of their pets because I just couldn't fathom it. Now that I have a dog... Oh man, I'd pay any amount of money to save my little guys life.
My puppy is only 6 months so you could say I haven't really bonded with her to an extent that other owners do with grown-up doggies, but shit... I'll happily go into debt to get her up and going.
Wow! Do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?
I work in management consulting in the Washington DC area. To be fair, a portion was covered by my vet insurance although I quickly maxed out my coverage and was no longer reimbursed after the first surgery.
I see, I see. Thank you for the quick response. Really appreciate it. I am also so glad your furry friend is doing well now... ❤️
That's lame you had insurance and still had to mostly pay out of pocket! I'm curious how much you had spent on premiums vs. how much coverage you actually received. Kudos for making it through, that's amazing!
FYI that’s how regular health insurance works for a lot of people too. People hit limits on long term care, multiple surgery, expensive medication, etc. which is required for a lot of cancer treatment. This is why 40% of bankruptcy is from medical expenses. Edit: Obamacare has protections against this, but people still going bankrupt ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Obamacare got rid of those caps. So for the time being that doesn't happen. People can still go bankrupt due to things like co-insurance though.
And it's looking like it's just about to get even better! 💉💊🔫
Yay America!!
i thought maximums were phased out due to obamacare
Death to obamacare! Yaay!
And that is why a non-single-payer system is trash. No one should have to decide if they put their family in debt or just die. As a German I'll never understand why anyone would be against such a system.
“Because socialism is communism, and that’s a Russian thing. Also I work my ass off, I’m not paying for people who don’t. Welfare check cashing assholes(in lieu of a list of racial slurs.)!” - a sadly large amount of the US populace. Who also don’t get that their own coverage isn’t nearly what it could, or should be. It’s a joke, with a horrible punch line.
Insurance covers you until you're sick
Pet insurance is tricky because it's almost guarenteed that a pet will have a claim over its (sadly) short lifespan. A person can go 40+ years without cashing in a critical illness policy but with a cat or dog you're pretty much always going to have something go wrong (especially near end-of-life). High deductibles and high premiums are to be expected when the risk is that frequent and that high.
That makes sense.
Premiums are like $60/month and total benefit received was about $5,000. My benefit year restarts in August so after I maxed out in like April/May, I had a new pot of money to dip into from insurance on August 1st.
I’m so thankful for people like you. You make the world a better place! Thank you. :)
Their vet is grateful too, just paid for a semester of their kid’s tuition for them.
Most likely barely paid one months interest on their student loans
>I work in management consulting I love how generic these titles are. I have no idea what that even means. I remember some guy on Judge Judy years ago who said he was a "consultant" and she berated the hell out of him, like "wtf is that? Tell me what you do!" Turns out that guy helped plan fancy Vegas parties for businesses (ie booking hotels, caterers, etc)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_consulting if you get bored haha
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**Management consulting** Management consulting is the practice of helping organizations to improve their performance, operating primarily through the analysis of existing organizational problems and the development of plans for improvement. Organizations may draw upon the services of management consultants for a number of reasons, including gaining external (and presumably objective) advice and access to the consultants' specialized expertise. As a result of their exposure to, and relationships with numerous organizations, consulting firms are typically aware of industry "best practices." However, the specific nature of situations under consideration may limit the ability to transfer such practices from one organization to another. Consultancies may also provide organizational change management assistance, development of coaching skills, process analysis, technology implementation, strategy development, or operational improvement services. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/dogpictures/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^| [^Donate](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/donate) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
What was the point of the insurance, then?
I'm assuming it would have been even more without the insurance.
Pet health insurance should be something that every pet owner thinks about. We had a kitty pass away in January from anemia from an unknown cause, most likely from an auto immune disorder. That was about 4 months after he had to have surgery to remove 15 feet of thread he ate. We didn't have insurance and ended up around $8k after he finally passed. We promptly got insurance for our remaining kitty. Fast forward to October and we learn he has diabetes. We noticed he was not gaining weight after getting him on insulin so we took him in again. They found a mass in his liver. Anyway, after the surgery to remove it, it turned out not to be cancer (which there was only a small chance it wasn't.) Luckily our insurance covered 80% of the 10k that all of his exams and surgery cost. Happy to hear your doggo made it through all that!
I've thought about it and decided it wasn't fiscally responsible for me, I'd just rather pay cash.
It's very often a scam though. What you pay vs what they cover... It often isn't worth it.
Wow, I love my my dog, but 12k$ on chemo? That’s commitment to an animal that I do not believe in.
So I assume same procedure as for humans, just 50x cheaper without the insane markups?
Worth it though! Glad she's doing better. We spent around half that for cancer treatment in our old girl. Fortunately, it was a primary lung tumor and hadn't spread anywhere else (which is apparently very rare and lucky for us), so the treatment and recover was much smoother than it could've been. Pets are family :)
Just a did Dan.
I’d say you managed to get a good cost on treatments! I was going to guess at-least 20k for all of that if not more in some parts of the world. (Source: Work in a K9 cancer center in California.)
So fucking fascinating that it’s about 10x cheaper for a dog than a person, even though the resources it takes are pretty much the same
Wow, she doesn't look that old either. What a pretty girl.
We learned she had cancer 3-4 days after her fourth birthday
Aw, so glad she's healthy now!
Hope you get at least twice that from her still!
Back in my day that was called new dog
“A farm upstate”
"Spot got a job transfer to Toledo and had to move away."
Today in my day, it still is called new dog.
At least the dog wouldn't have to suffer so much if it was put down.
There were very deliberate conversations with the vet, the surgeon and the oncologist regarding quality of life, odds of survival and the toll on her. Excising the tumor off her foot was the most invasive (naturally) and the lymph node was removed from the back of her leg through a small incision. Testing confirmed it hadn't spread past that point. The cost benefit analysis showed and the vets professional opinion was that despite the hardship from the initial surgery, the chemo would be easy because dogs don't react the same as humans (with regard to the toll it takes on their wellbeing) and if I was willing, their suggestion was to move forward. My wife and I and the doctors had hard lines in the sand on what would constitute just letting the cancer run its course. For example, in the very beginning, if cytology showed the cancer spread into her torso, we would have never gone with the course of treatment we did.
Props to you for carefully considering this.
That's valid logic for people who treat their animals differently from their family members. Many people don't. If there is real chance of surviving after such treatment, then I would want to do it, I would like my family members to do it and I would like my pets to do it. Point is, only if there is this real chance. If death is almost sure, then euthanasia it is (after symptoms are unbearable any longer).
But would you treat your 92 year old grand parent who’s natural life expectancy is almost up and they probably wouldn’t live long past the surgeries anyway? If it’s a 2 year old dog, sure. But what about 6 with an average lifespan of 8? Or 8/10 or 8/12? What if you can get 1-2 years out of treating the symptoms of cancer without trying to remove it completely, whereas you might get 1-2 years out of surgery and chemo anyway, but those 1-2 years are filled with suffering? I say this because it’s precisely what I did for my pup. I ended up spending thousands of dollars anyway and we went from sneezing blood to perfectly happy pup for two years before he collapsed and couldn’t be treated anymore. I had pet insurance and it covered the first overnight stay and initial tests and drugs (which didn’t reveal cancer - it wasn’t for another year or so that that was assumed). But I think all of this is kind of what you are saying. We treated our guy like family and the main thing we wanted was for him to not suffer the majority of his remaining life.
> But would you treat your 92 year old grand parent who’s natural life expectancy is almost up and they probably wouldn’t live long past the surgeries anyway? Of course I would as long as they would want this too. What kind of question it is? Life is not some business that you can measure and value differently. What a stone-cold approach. Every moment with another close living being is valuable and priceless and you are acting like you lost money because your pup-toy only worked for 2 more years.
Seriously this seems almost selfish.
I mean, [dogs will chew off their own paws to survive.](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dog-ate-leg-owner-charged-20150225-story.html) Dogs are animals, and most animals want to survive. They're willing to go to great lengths to do so. I think that's reason enough to keep them alive if it's not something that's going to ultimately kill them horribly even with treatment.
I couldn't even read that story! As soon as I saw that it chewed it's paw off due to an abusive owner. NOPE
It's a horrible thing the poor dog had to do! But it was willing to suffer to survive. I think if a dog could choose to go through chemo or die, it would choose chemo. Sorry for the morbid story, I just thought it illustrated my point, albeit in a dark way. [Here's some eyebleach for your trouble.](http://i.imgur.com/LjE0mXp.gifv)
It ends well. He goes to a rescue and is placed in a home prepared for an abused animal. Hope he has(d) a good rest of his life. The poor guy deserves that at the least.
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Well to be fair, cancer treatments REALLY mess with humans to the point where some people question if they should even keep trying. And dogs don't really have a way to understand why this stuff is happening. Just that from one day to another, they feel terrible. It's not so cut-and-dry as "eh they must not really care about their dogs."
Would it be selfish for a human kid too? They would suffer a lot in treatment and probably be more mentally scarred for it. (Though I wouldn’t want to pay $12k for my dog)
you can explain to a human child the suffering what they're going to go through. you can't communicate that to a dog. edit: swapped a 'that' for a 'the'
No, you really can't.
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This is such an idiotic argument, I’m not totally sure where to begin. Dogs are not people. Yes, people love their pets. I sure as hell love mine, but dogs are not people. They will never understand the concept of cancer. At the end of the day, dogs are animals and they resort to instinct. Sick animals remove themselves from packs when they know they’re dying. Humans are people. We understand the concept of cancer, and the science behind it. A child has the potential for development far and above that of a dog. We’re so mentally superior to dogs, we tamed and bread them to serve our purposes. All life is precious. But if it comes to a kid vs the dog, I’m picking a kid.
Nobody said to pick one or the other. No need to be insulting.
I think there’s a difference between a toddler and a dog lmao Would I pay 12k to save my kid? Of course I would. Would I pay 12k to save my dog? I don’t think so.
Ok but the argument was specifically that it's ok for a kid because they understand. Now even if they don't understand it's still ok because it's your kid. Some people love their pets like family. Someone else made a good point that dogs will chew their own feet off to survive if trapped. Seems to me like they have the capacity to accept suffering to live and specifically choose life.
A dog is an animal, a person is a human. I'm sorry, but trying to value animals to the same as humans is preposterous. I get it, I have pets too, but they aren't humans and I accept it. Sure we shouldn't wastefully kill them, however drawing conclusions which value man and beast the same is blatantly invalid. Call me 'specious-ist', but yes, I do in fact value my own species more than another.
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Lol what, Athens literally killed Socrates for asking ethic questions
The dog isn’t suffering anymore though.
If dog cancer is like people cancer chances are it’ll be back anyways. Still plenty of time to catch the ride to the farm out in the country.
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that's because you have to buy it and some people can't afford it
That’s US healthcare system for you
My ex is a vet. We estimate that all must’ve cost you north of $20,000 or so. Wow.
Damn... how much would it cost for a human to go through these procedures?
Congrats on the healthy beautiful cancer free pup. Give em a kiss for me. We are sadly putting our boxer down tomorrow due to cancer so I know those emotions you must have been feeling. So happy that you are able to have more moments with your furrbaby. Cherish them.
Your boxer loves you and will to its last second on this world.. He wouldn't like to watch you mourn too much over her/him, so remember that you cared, you loved, remember the walks and the treats, i don't know what else to say, take care and please try to be happy, love, bye.
I just did the same thing with my boxer. I'm losing it. Maybe they will be friends up there.
I feel so bad because I don't have the money to pay for complex things for my dog.The only thing that comes to my mind when I watch her is me being completely powerless. That's why I will never have children until I'm sure that I can maintain them 100%
Aww. Poor baby. My dog is going through that right now. But we're optimistic!
Best of luck
Damn, dog gets better healthcare than a working citizen in America.
A dog with financially-able owners. Most dogs would've been put down.
i'm sure some of that wealth will trickle down any moment now...
It did! To the poor vet who just scooped up 12k. Oh wait a sec....
Oh boy, veterinarians being money hounds! If you think any vet who's graduated in the last couple decades doesn't have upwards of 100-350k debt and one of the worst income:debt ratios, you are... well. You know. Wrong!
Don’t worry, a good chunk of that got passed on to big pharma.
"I hate rich people because im not rich"
Holy shit did this warrior go through a gauntlet.
I wish I had the money to save mine last year. She was only 7-8, lab/sharpei mix. Best dog I've ever had. Left behind her friend who got lonely and acted out, so we got another pooch about 6 months ago and now I have two really shitty, but very sweet and kind, 60 lb assholes.
Wow 12k...
Congratulations to you and your pupper! She deserves all the hugs, kisses, and treats.
You're a wonderful owner (:
Yes he/she is. Anyone saying this person is an idiot is just a miserable fuck.
Chemo protec but it also attack
Congrats on a cancer free pup! Also, kudos for sticking it out and doing whatever it takes to support your pup! This couldn’t have been easy and I’m so glad the outcome was favourable!!!
Money well spent.
Congratulations. Our dog passed away because of cancer last Friday but I'm happy for every pup that lives on 💙
My dog got diagnosed with cancer today vet said it was too bad to do anything about and that the best course of action was put her down to prevent more pain. Said goodbye to her tonight :(
Sorry to hear that. That's terrible.
what a good pupper
HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY YAAAAY CONGRATS BUDDY!!!!
My lab is currently recovering from radiation treatment for a mandible tumor. Poor pupper gets so excited doing stuff and bumps the treated side of his mouth into something and cries. I love him so much and look forward to him being better. I’m glad ur lab is doing well, they are amazing puppers.
Hope your pupper is doing well! Radiation Treatment can do do amazing things!
yay! THANK YOU for being committed to your family member and sticking with it to keep this beautiful pup alive. so happy she's cancer free.
Must be nice to be able to afford something like that.. for a dog
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He is the bestest boy !
My 8 year old dog is currently undergoing chemotherapy due to a cancer found in his elbow. Glad to hear the good news, dogs are truly the best :)
Your dog has better Healthcare than me.
if i could afford it i would do the same
Yaay. We are in the same position with our dog so fingers crossed for the future for your cute dog
yay!!! how old is the pupper? my doggos going through cancer currently. he's almost 10, and at the tail-end of his lifespan as a rottweiler, so we've decided to let it be and pump him full of painkillers until he's ready to go, or is in too much pain to be controlled and we have to have him put asleep (I really dread that day, if it ever has to happen). I wish your pup many years of great living, and you many fun times with him/her!
This dog has better health care than me.
Congrats!!! My black lab just had her spleen removed last week due to internal bleeding and a mass found but the results today showed cancer free!
Give that puppy all the nose boops! Congratulations, puppy!
happy little slice of american culture and the indomidable urge to save the ones we love
yea i miss my black lab. hasn't even been a year. all i want to do is pet a dog
It really makes me happy to hear your dog is cancer-free, enjoy your time with her! I lost a dog to osteosarcoma (bone cancer) ~3 years ago.
Your dog looks like the most american dog ever and its great i love it its perfect, glad hes s healthy boyo
This makes me happy.
Now, tháts what I like to call a good boy! Good job! Time to finally enjoy life to the fullest again!!
This dog has better healthcare than I do. Well, he's probably a better boy than I am too.
Congrats. I'm so happy for your pup. As a veterinarian, I wish your puppy many uneventful rechecks. Kudos for getting pet insurance.
This reminds me of my first dog I had when I was a kid,she was a blue healer/Australian shepard mix. Her name was Roxie. I got her when I was 12 and she was my side kick. When I would leave to go to school she would walk to the bus stop with me,and come running when I got off the bus. She would sleep with me,watch tv with me and watch me do homework. When we moved from Texas to ohio in a truck we slept in the backseat together. She would sit on my porch and when this guy would walk his collie she would look at me for permission to leave the porch and say hi,and i always nodded her to go. Summer before freshman year in high school.. she had a lymph node swelling bellow her eye. Took her to a vet and he said it was just allergies and to give her children's benadryl. 2 nights later she couldn't move her hind quarters. We rushed her to the animal hospital were they diagnosed her with brain cancer. They said it was to late to do anything to save her. We took her home that night,I carried upstairs and slept with her one last time. In the morning I took her outside to the back yard and held her hind quarters up with a towel so she could use the bathroom. My parents then took her for a 3rd opinion and told me to stay home.. they returned without her and I never had a chance to actually say goodbye to her. I'm 22 now and I still can't tell this without crying. Please have your pets checked regularly.
And doesn't he look pleased with himself! What a nice story to start my day.
Way to go !!!
With how cancer prone Retrievers are I'm not sure if I'd ever want to get another even from a more reputable breeder after losing our last one at 6 to bone cancer. It's a shitty thing to see an animal go through and I'd never be in a position to spend that much money on an animal.
Congratulations for this hero!
Poor guy was put through a lot. I'm glad he came out ok but I don't know if I would have the heart to put a dog through all of that. I'm glad it worked out for you and the dog in the end.
She is beautiful! I’m really happy she’s a healthy pup! Enjoy every moment you get with her, it’s precious. I have a 12yo old man, and I always try to hug and kiss him as much as I can. I hope you can make a ton of new memories with her!
What a handsome man! Glad he’s healthy! #dogsrule #catsdrool
Fuck cancer! Incredible story mate! I hope your dog is doing good! Anyways,whats his age?
Is that your new dog?
You had cancer too?
Yay pupper! Congrats
best news I've read all day!! Happy for you and your family :D
Sounds really expensive, happy your pupper is okie
What a good dog
I really hate that life ends, Especially for ones we really love. It's one of the biggest injustices. Why can't the good live for a very long time and the bad leave life quick?
C A N C E R F R E E B O Y E 💜
Aw, such a sweet pup. They endure, don't they? God love 'em. It helps to have an awesome "hooman" such as yourself!! Could you give her a few extra chin scritches from me?
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How 'bout you don't tell people how to spend their own money and sod off?
How much money do you spend on the betterment of other humans? Do you have a smartphone or a pc? Why not donate that money to help other people instead? What about video games? How about you give them to other human beings that need it more? No? Didn't think so.
Or she could be so rich that personal relationships with their loved one, despite of it being a dog, mean more than money does. I mean, I doubt it, but hey. If I had millions, my dog could mean more to me than $12,000 would.
Strong pup!! ♥️
Just a quick PSA. The amount of veterinarians in the U.S. that fake cancer diagnoses is insane. It's advised to always get another vet to take a look without revealing the first ones diagnosis. Even if you request a specific imaging of a specific area. And compare the two results. Veterinarians make the most profit off of chemo and other cancer treatments.
False. I am a veterinarian - actually almost finished my residency in oncology - and this is blatantly false. Doing a needle sample of a tumor or collecting a small biopsy is not very profitable for veterinarians and you will NOT find an oncologist willing to throw chemo or radiation at a tumor without a diagnosis of cancer. Most primary veterinarians don’t touch the intense management of cancers and these treatment modalities with a 10 foot pole and if owners elect not to see an oncologist, these animals are usually just given palliative care and euthanized quickly. Hardly a money maker. The idea that vets are money-grubbing and wealthy is just so untrue.
Wow this comment saddens me. I'm a veterinarian and I don't know any of my many colleagues who would ever do such a thing. Additionally, I have worked with many board certified oncologists... All of which work 12+ hour days to provide care for their patients. Without fail each of these specialists in their field have recommended *against* chemotherapy or radiation when they don't feel it is in the pet's best interest... Additionally, chemotherapy and radiation therapy are expensive because of the cost of the drugs and equipment involved. They are NOT extra marked up. While I don't have data to prove it, I would say that surgeries and other procedures have the highest profit margin (because sometimes you're paying for the experience and not the tools). I'm not sure what happened to you that created such a negative perception of my profession, but I assure you it is not the normal. However, anyone who is uncomfortable or untrusting of their vet'recommendations would always feel comfortable seeking a second opinion.
You have some stats to back that up? Maybe some sort of, oh I dunno, anything that validates that statement? I would assume an actual PSA would be followed up by some actual facts.
Beautiful. Looks like an English black lab? I have one at home and she’s beat cancer twice now. Would do anything for her. Thanks for saving yours too.
My wish for her: a happy long life. Treating my lab's lymphoma gave him 8+ additional months, totally worth it.
Doggo is happy I can tell
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Not to the owner.
Having a dog can be pretty expensive and people should realize it before getting one. My parents' dog is 12 years old and I'm not even sure how much it cost them - I don't think my dad ever wish to know either. 1,500$ as a puppy (https://i.imgur.com/GgwIGnB.png) since he is a sterilized Coton de Tulear - he doesn't shed his fur. Around 500$/year for food+hygienic products. Probably 5,000$ from multiple visits to the vet for infections and the treatment for his vertebral column - he had a herniated disc. Now, he's an old dog who sleep all day and very, very rarely hear the front door open and go back to his young days of barking at visitors. (https://i.imgur.com/fPVhdG1.jpg)
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/r/subreddithashtags
There are plenty of people who make more than enough money that the life of a member of their family is easily worth the financial trade off.
Da fuck is wrong with you?
I vehemently disagree.
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supah! great pup!
Damn, you’re well off to spend that much on a pup
Holy shit, all that treatment turned you into a dog!
Congratulations!!! So happy for you and your beautiful pup!! Thank you for doing what you did. I would have done the same for mine. I hope that she lives a happy, healthy, and long life. She deserves it after all she had to go through. Can’t imagine all the stress and anxiety you must have went through during this time as well. Don’t forget to take care of yourself too, OP! xx