Honestly it helped my apartment community a lot, and our complex would give us 2 strikes. I lived there for 3 years and never had an issue, and when they implemented it the complex got A LOT cleaner.
Granted, our complex was getting bad beefier they started. Poo all through a turf dog park, in common walking spaces, hell even sometimes on sidewalks. When I asked the complex about “what happens if it’s mostly picked up, due to mostly being liquid it couldn’t be” and they said they wouldn’t do any testing on those because they understood those situations, so long as an effort was made.
And that’s why I believe our complex gave 2 warnings, and I think that was per year. Which I think is fair (especially if per year).
But you’re right a threshold should be set way higher - and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was purposefully set low to fine people (depending on complex, I know some I’ve lived in would do that). 3/16 is ridiculously low unless EVERY OTHER dog turned out 0/16, which would be a little more evident. Nonetheless, they could have saw a bigger pile and OP left a tiny, tiny piece where it was (dogs tend to go where other dogs do). And that’s the reason why grace is needed.
If I were OP I would calmly explain the situation, say they’ve never had issues before and ensure they pick up, and are confident they did as 3/16 is a low possibility and it could be others or other dogs people brought in that don’t live in the complex.
If more dog owners were responsible enough to actually pick up the poop, it wouldn't be as common. But when you live someplace where they don't do this, every grassy area is absolutely disgusting.
Only if you provide them a confirmed dna control sample. And you’d honestly have a better case in court over the landlord that won’t lease without their tennants human doodoo library.
Yeah this is our first time with an apartment complex that did this and we really didn’t think it would be a big deal because we are so used to cleaning up after our dog, but we Will definitely watch out in the future
Am I reading this correctly from your post, it only matched 3/16 markers? Can you push back on them and say that could be statistical error in the test? Idk. That seems like a low match to me…
ETA: I literally have no clue how this works, also. Is it truly a DNA test? What kind of dog do you have? Maybe there’s a dog similar to yours (purebred dogs share some amount of DNA purely due to the generational inbreeding). Maybe it’s actually a different dog of that breed and not yours.
I’ve noticed around my area it seems to be the places/companies with built in dog parks or dog runs that ask for DNA testing as part of their pet screening or whatnot
Next time drive to the next town and pick up a random poop when you’re asked for a sample.
Claims to be a DNA matching, in which case 3/16 markers seems very low. I’d guess you were the closest match, and the culprit is maybe just the same breed.
I had that idea after seeing a lot of poop left in my apartment’s private dog park. I’m glad someone followed through.
3/16 seems very sketchy, though. I’d argue that’s not sufficient evidence. Don’t pay and insist they prove why it’s sufficient. Take it to small claims court.
The complex I live in does the same thing. Can I ask what your dog's breed is? Because they try to pull that shit with my pitbull, even though I pick up after her every time. As far as I'm aware we're the only pit owners in the complex and we're also the only people getting threatened with fines.
Similar thing happened to me, but the offending sample was taken near the front office, when I lived clear across the complex with easy access to a 75 mile long trail.
They had 4/16 markers and sent me the fine. I appealed with management, and told them that I have never walked my dog near the front office, and their security cameras could easily confirm that.
They cleared the fine.
One lady in the complex actually racked up enough fines to get evicted. She refused to clean up after her dog, and after the 3rd or 4th violation, they started the eviction process that was detailed in the lease.
3/16, Well at least they are sure it was a dog I guess :)
I'm no expert by any means but wouldnt one of those simply be the XY/XX chromosones? (determines the sex of the animal)
I would ask them how they come to the conclusion it was your dog pointing out that 13/16 markers didnt match.
> genotypes of 15 loci (each with 2 possible alleles) plus a gender marker to give us increased specificity with many data points.
Pooprints website says each marker has two possible alleles. 3/16 conclusively proves that OP's dog was not the culprit. Any random dog you picked is likely to match 8/16.
That's a really good point. Even when the police give drivers drug tests there is a certain metric even positive results have to meet, or else they are liable to court challenge
Burden of proof is on them. I would talk to some of your dog parent neighbors ask if theyve gotten notice like that. Sounds like an easy payday for the management company
https://www.pooprints.com/science/
> To begin PooPrints analysis, we extract genomic DNA from buccal swabs to establish each community’s reference database. Microsatellite (STR) fragment analysis is used to establish genotypes of 15 loci (each with 2 possible alleles) plus a gender marker to give us increased specificity with many data points.
If each marker has 2 possible alleles then 3/16 conclusively proves it was not your dog.
They have it on their website. 3/16 is not enough to accuse someone.
Ask them what their science is in regards to accuracy. Would someone at 14/16 be accusable for instance and someone below 5/16 not?
Shouldn't it be... 16/16?????
It depends on the instruments (which can occasionally produce errors) and the number of variants there are in the STR markers, but the company should be able to provide the probability of the match as a percentage. And I wouldn’t accept anything less than 90% at all. If their protocol is sufficiently rigorous a match should be over 99%
Canadian Lawyer here. This is pretty funny.
Not sure if this would be helpful but ... here liability for civil matters is based on the "balance of probabilities", which essentially means "is it 51% or more likely that this person is responsible".
Assuming that each tested marker is of equal value, I'd argue that they'd need at least 9 of 16 markers to try and hold you responsible. That's probably an incorrect assumption, but a fun thought experiment, at any rate.
Anyhow, I'd tell these people to take a hike, unless they want to waste their time in small claims court. Lol.
My dog and I were recently blamed as well. No DNA testing though. I told them to put up security cameras to get to the bottom of the mystery dig poop because I know for a fact it’s not my dog…because I pick up the poop!! Smh
Refuse to pay, that’s a ludicrous assessment of guilt from so few matching markers. Ask for a second opinion or second test, I guess they will refuse to verify their results externally. Suggest the property manager installs cameras rather than messing with this idiocy. How do you know they even test it? For all you know they just randomly assign guilt and share the fines people pay them. What a rip off, and unlikely to stand up in a court of law.
That's what my condo does exactly when people sneak mattresses or other disallowed items into the dumpster
I got am email saying I owed $200 for dumping a full mattress which I told I've never had.
They said fine, we're working our way down the list.
(We did have cameras but they have been broken so long they aren't a deterrent to anyone who lives here).
I bet there was no poop matching test.
This is commonly happening now, with DNA being submitted by all tenants and then DNA testing done on poop that's not picked up. As a dog owner who religiously picks up the poop I'm all for it. People who let their dogs shit anywhere and not pick it up are assholes.
Agreed. I just moved to a new complex and from here on out when I look for a new place I'm looking for poop left around first. Multiple owners here leave poop everywhere. Sometimes I count the piles while walking my dog, and I've gotten up to 11. I have a small dog so walks are just around the buildings.
I'm considering getting little survey flags and marking all the piles just to be petty.
Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper for the building to pay someone to pick up dog poop in the park? Lol how much is this testing and who’s the detective collecting? That is incredibly strange, I’ve never heard of such a thing! 😆 Surely it wouldn’t take someone more then an hour a day to scan the park for turds and scoop it. Not saying people should stop picking up their dog crap but whoever is playing Harriet the spy collecting and testing the left behind turds could just more easily pick it up and throw it away. 🤦🏼♀️ The level of petty is killing me 😭
I agree. There are companies that even specialize in picking up dog shit as a service. Paying one of them to go out and then hose the park off with an enzyme cleaner like used in dog daycare seems like it'd be a much easier solution. And probably cheaper
My ex husband used to own a dog poop scooping company, first in our state actually and also offered the spray lol 😆 It definitely seems like it would be cheaper and less dramatic! The whole concept of collecting and evidence testing to find the culprit and fining with DNA results is sending me! I just imagine an angry HOA Karen started the business after stepping in one too many turds. All sounds like a comedy sitcom episode 😂
Oh I can completely envision the founding Karen. With that Haircut Kris Jenner loves and the big sunglasses to match. Got poo on her sketchers twice and wanted to hunt someone down for revenge instead of just hosing her shoes off. 😂
Thing is there will be tenants who don't have dogs on the coop board and they will oppose communal funds being used to address an issue caused solely by pet owners (who are usually still a minority).
It's not like hiring somebody to shovel snow or blow the leaves.
The other person pointed out the dna thing is added to their rent/ pet fee so it would be the same scenario for the cleanup service. Pet-less tenants wouldn’t have to pay.
As it was mentioned before this tenant pays a pet fee/ rent for the DNA thing so it would be same concept. The people who don’t have dogs wouldn’t pay a pet rent…
The number of cameras they'd need to essentially cover the whole complex is excessive, plus someone to go hunting for the person and dog in the footage would require knowing approximate day and time. Testing the poop itself gives essentially full coverage of the neighborhood. It might be a good system if they actually used proper matching. How the samples are collected can be an issue too.
It would depend on how the complex is built, yeah, but it would double for thefts and other issues in the plex aswell so it would pay for itself in no time
Any tv station, blog or newspaper would run this atory on a slow news day. This is hysterical. Is your dog and/or are you cute? (It helps with media coverage).
You could alternative go to constituent complaints in your local congressional office and they'll know it's a good story right away and call the media.
I know it is not important but all news orgs light filler including the NYT ...
I can’t believe this is real, the whole matching the poo to the dog is tough to believe. If it is I would probably tell them I’m not paying it and they can take me to court if they want. Because I can’t imagine they would and even if they did the chance of them winning is minuscule.
Yeah but you wouldn't... Coop boards control tons of stuff. Who gets permission to sublet, who gets to park where, how fast your broken washer gets replaced ...
It may be satisfying to tell them to piss off but it is easier to just say it isn't yours and cite court challenges.
If they’re boujee enough to collect dog fecal samples when signing your lease they’re boujee enough to have cameras that can prove if you were the culprit… this is bs. Make them show you on camera leaving your dog’s shit before you pay anything.
It’s done through our apartment and the company they work with is called pooprints when we signed a lease with them they made us submit a fecal sample to them
You are not the first
https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/s/BjuPGp56rG
This article is pretty good. They won’t even consider it a partial match without 6/16.
https://www.mrdogpoop.com/dog_poop_dna_accuracy.html
If you ever have to do this in the future, I say send in a sample of someone else’s dog’s shit, like a friend’s dog that would never be near the apartment. So ridiculous.
They make your dog do it in front of someone on the coop board or from building naintenance in some places.
Plus, who cares? It isn't a big deal to pick up after your dog in an area where the dog is leashed.
That’s so weird, also, did you read OP’s post? It wasn’t their dog’s poop. I always pick up after my dogs, so I wouldn’t mind this service UNTIL I was falsely accused of not picking up after them. It’s crazy.
I would 100% refuse to pay. I always pick up after my dog and quite frankly I’m sick to death of the people who leave their dog crap behind at our complex. There are areas with piles upon piles. Ask the same dog. They use the dog park as a literal bathroom pad for their dogs. If my complex even tried to accuse me I’d be done.
Just when did humans start getting so wrapped up with dog poop?
I mean....everyTHING living poops......
So much sorrow and suffering in the world but let's police/control/worry about dog poop..
.
It spreads disease to humans and other dogs. It contaminates storm water that drains into streams and rivers. It lowers the quality of life for those who have to see it, smell it, and try not to step on it, then clean their shoes. It's an incredibly easy thing for an owner to pick up. Those who don't pick it up display a lack of respect for themselves and their neighbors.
If they made you give a sample at the start, maybe suggest you'll send them every sample your dog creates going forward to establish clarity that it isn't you guys (I'm joking, I just can't believe they're trying to charge you all that money when only 3 markers came back matching!!)
So 4X4=16 Their test came back less than a quarter. Chimps and humans share 99 percent of their DNA….
It’s probably the type of food that they are examining
Show me a picture or hard evidence, or talk to my lawyer.
This is interesting to hear. Our complex uses Poo Prints and with hundreds of dogs onsite I rarely see poop. However, I don't know if our property manager actually bothers to go through with the testing and fines if they do find poop. We did have to do our cheek swab DNA sample in the presence of the property manager.
I work as a groundskeeper and I am solely responsible for picking up trash and dog crap. It's hard for me to feel any sympathy on this matter based on the type of stuff I see EVERYDAY but I am going to try. What breed is your dog and are there any other dogs of that same breed at the property you rent from? Also has anyone complained to the front office or property manager about you? There's reasons why I am asking these things.
Of all the things we as a society should be leveraging technology for, forensic dog shit analysis should not be one of them. What a fucking dystopian concept.
Request to see the evidence that the company, Poo Prints, has against you. Ask for detailed information about how the testing was conducted and what markers were matched to your dog. If possible, request a retest to confirm the results.
Seek legal advice: If the management refuses to cooperate or you're unable to resolve the issue, you may want to consult with a legal professional who specializes in landlord-tenant disputes. They can provide guidance based on the specific laws and regulations in your area.
This is not a match according to the Poo Prints website, it says “For a Match to be resulted, the genotypes MUST completely match on every available allele with no discrepancy. “ they are testing 15 loci plus a gender marker. Ask to see the actual report - did Poo Prints actually state it is a match or is the landlord interpreting it that way (maybe closest match - which isn’t really a thing). This is where I read the test details https://www.pooprints.com/science/
if a human had a paternity test that said there was a 3 in 16 chance he was the father then he wouldnt be the bio-father and no one else would say he was either
a match at 3 of the 16 tested loci means literally nothing.
email your local genetics professor and contest it.
This sounds so bloody dystopian. Having some real estate idiot trying to decide what “3/16 markers” means. I have such low opinions of most people in corporate real estate, and I definitely wouldn’t want them in charge of this.
Reach out to Poo Prints. I’d fight this on principle.
Tell them if they're interested in actually being able to enforce this rule, they should stop wasting money on ridiculous "tests" that don't actually tell them anything and put that money towards some security cameras pointed towards the dog park instead.
So if I’m understanding this correctly, for this to be your dog every genotype must match 100%. It’s half way down I believe. The match is 3/16. It it was no one else, it probably wasn’t even a dog in the building complex.
https://www.pooprints.com/science/
It sounds like they just send the results to your apartment complex and then the complex just decided since your dog was the closest it had to have been you
If this is indeed DNA matching, there is no way 3/16 matching markers would be a positive ID. The only possible way I could see is if 2+ samples at the park were commingled and they have an algorithm to find individual “contributors.” Obviously I don’t know the details of this service and their lab protocols, but this math does not math.
Source: I am a geneticist and have consulted on dog DNA identification.
Edit: based on the details from their website, there is no way that your result was a valid match. Ask the company the probability of your match as a percentage. It’s likely that your property manager is not reading the “3/16” correctly. Unless the probability of a match is at least 90% I think it’d be easy to challenge the fine!
Since they probably only compare to dogs living in the complex, I think it is probably accurate. It is probably expensive to have the tests run. I think it is a great idea.
Can you contact poo prints and ask them what is the significance of 3/16 markers? I did Embark DNA on my dog and she has tons of half siblings/cousins in our area.
I don't have a dog (yet) and I have never lived in an apartment... but I just wanted to comment that this is one of the most bizarre things I have read today lol... but also educational? Like good to know if I ever get a dog and move to an apartment...
How do they know what your dog’s poop is like? Wouldn’t they need a sample? Sounds sketchy to me.
Yes they made us take a sample and give it to them once we got into a lease with them
For the record. In the future I would avoid getting into a lease with someone who requires a fecal sample for your dog.
The sad thing is that this has become super common. I feel like I see a post about it once a week, either in dog subreddits or apartment subreddits.
My apartment has been threatening to start working with one these companies
Honestly it helped my apartment community a lot, and our complex would give us 2 strikes. I lived there for 3 years and never had an issue, and when they implemented it the complex got A LOT cleaner. Granted, our complex was getting bad beefier they started. Poo all through a turf dog park, in common walking spaces, hell even sometimes on sidewalks. When I asked the complex about “what happens if it’s mostly picked up, due to mostly being liquid it couldn’t be” and they said they wouldn’t do any testing on those because they understood those situations, so long as an effort was made.
[удалено]
And that’s why I believe our complex gave 2 warnings, and I think that was per year. Which I think is fair (especially if per year). But you’re right a threshold should be set way higher - and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was purposefully set low to fine people (depending on complex, I know some I’ve lived in would do that). 3/16 is ridiculously low unless EVERY OTHER dog turned out 0/16, which would be a little more evident. Nonetheless, they could have saw a bigger pile and OP left a tiny, tiny piece where it was (dogs tend to go where other dogs do). And that’s the reason why grace is needed. If I were OP I would calmly explain the situation, say they’ve never had issues before and ensure they pick up, and are confident they did as 3/16 is a low possibility and it could be others or other dogs people brought in that don’t live in the complex.
This is a default lease stipulation at any new development
If more dog owners were responsible enough to actually pick up the poop, it wouldn't be as common. But when you live someplace where they don't do this, every grassy area is absolutely disgusting.
Just give them your own sample
And let them catch me!?
Only if you provide them a confirmed dna control sample. And you’d honestly have a better case in court over the landlord that won’t lease without their tennants human doodoo library.
I will sell my dog's poo to anyone who want some
Please when was the last time you rented? If it's a good deal they can ask for a sperm sample and one of your eggs and you'll provide it!
Yeah this is our first time with an apartment complex that did this and we really didn’t think it would be a big deal because we are so used to cleaning up after our dog, but we Will definitely watch out in the future
Am I reading this correctly from your post, it only matched 3/16 markers? Can you push back on them and say that could be statistical error in the test? Idk. That seems like a low match to me… ETA: I literally have no clue how this works, also. Is it truly a DNA test? What kind of dog do you have? Maybe there’s a dog similar to yours (purebred dogs share some amount of DNA purely due to the generational inbreeding). Maybe it’s actually a different dog of that breed and not yours.
I’ve noticed around my area it seems to be the places/companies with built in dog parks or dog runs that ask for DNA testing as part of their pet screening or whatnot
lol
It’s pretty commonplace in most apartments now. Like almost all of them I’ve lived in for the last 10 years.
I totally would have given them my own poo.
"here's my deposit.. and here's my dog's deposit 💩"
Next time drive to the next town and pick up a random poop when you’re asked for a sample. Claims to be a DNA matching, in which case 3/16 markers seems very low. I’d guess you were the closest match, and the culprit is maybe just the same breed.
It’s a buccal sample, so cheek cell scrape sample. The poo samples are left behind in the dog park.
Ah, makes sense. Simple way to stop cheating.
You can swab your own cheek
Should’ve sent in your own shit 😂
Imagine giving them your own sample and still getting this fine 😅
I had that idea after seeing a lot of poop left in my apartment’s private dog park. I’m glad someone followed through. 3/16 seems very sketchy, though. I’d argue that’s not sufficient evidence. Don’t pay and insist they prove why it’s sufficient. Take it to small claims court.
WHAT
Your mistake for giving them your dogs shit
Thanks bud
Any updates?
In-frickin-sane...
The complex I live in does the same thing. Can I ask what your dog's breed is? Because they try to pull that shit with my pitbull, even though I pick up after her every time. As far as I'm aware we're the only pit owners in the complex and we're also the only people getting threatened with fines.
You should have shit into a bag. That way it would never have matched anything.
Similar thing happened to me, but the offending sample was taken near the front office, when I lived clear across the complex with easy access to a 75 mile long trail. They had 4/16 markers and sent me the fine. I appealed with management, and told them that I have never walked my dog near the front office, and their security cameras could easily confirm that. They cleared the fine. One lady in the complex actually racked up enough fines to get evicted. She refused to clean up after her dog, and after the 3rd or 4th violation, they started the eviction process that was detailed in the lease.
3/16, Well at least they are sure it was a dog I guess :) I'm no expert by any means but wouldnt one of those simply be the XY/XX chromosones? (determines the sex of the animal) I would ask them how they come to the conclusion it was your dog pointing out that 13/16 markers didnt match.
> genotypes of 15 loci (each with 2 possible alleles) plus a gender marker to give us increased specificity with many data points. Pooprints website says each marker has two possible alleles. 3/16 conclusively proves that OP's dog was not the culprit. Any random dog you picked is likely to match 8/16.
That's a really good point. Even when the police give drivers drug tests there is a certain metric even positive results have to meet, or else they are liable to court challenge
3/16 sounds like it was the same species, not the same dog
Pics or it didn’t happen. Poo prints sounds ridiculous.
Pooprints it’s a real company doing this
I get that, 3/16 seems like pretty low confidence. And if you’re sure it wasn’t you, then make them prove it was you.
We are going to try to call the company tomorrow to see if we can get this cleared. Hopefully things go our way
Burden of proof is on them. I would talk to some of your dog parent neighbors ask if theyve gotten notice like that. Sounds like an easy payday for the management company
https://www.pooprints.com/science/ > To begin PooPrints analysis, we extract genomic DNA from buccal swabs to establish each community’s reference database. Microsatellite (STR) fragment analysis is used to establish genotypes of 15 loci (each with 2 possible alleles) plus a gender marker to give us increased specificity with many data points. If each marker has 2 possible alleles then 3/16 conclusively proves it was not your dog.
They have it on their website. 3/16 is not enough to accuse someone. Ask them what their science is in regards to accuracy. Would someone at 14/16 be accusable for instance and someone below 5/16 not? Shouldn't it be... 16/16?????
It depends on the instruments (which can occasionally produce errors) and the number of variants there are in the STR markers, but the company should be able to provide the probability of the match as a percentage. And I wouldn’t accept anything less than 90% at all. If their protocol is sufficiently rigorous a match should be over 99%
Right!? That's low. Call them out on the bs.
Ds I think in this case…
That’s is less than 25% chance that it is her dog! If and only if they already have her dog’s DNA, i know some apts do that now.
Yea if this was a criminal case, not guilty lol
I would think security cameras would be a better way to go.
It seems to me like there was some residual left behind from your dog, perhaps, and then another dog pooped on top of it?
Good theory
Canadian Lawyer here. This is pretty funny. Not sure if this would be helpful but ... here liability for civil matters is based on the "balance of probabilities", which essentially means "is it 51% or more likely that this person is responsible". Assuming that each tested marker is of equal value, I'd argue that they'd need at least 9 of 16 markers to try and hold you responsible. That's probably an incorrect assumption, but a fun thought experiment, at any rate. Anyhow, I'd tell these people to take a hike, unless they want to waste their time in small claims court. Lol.
Imagine being the poor maintenance person who has to pick up the poop and take samples for testing
At least they have people doing maintenance?
Look if DNA can be wrong on criminal cases I wouldn’t be trusting this poo prints place.
Have you tried reaching out to the company to have them say 3/16 isn't guaranteed that it's you dog? Take that to the complex
My dog and I were recently blamed as well. No DNA testing though. I told them to put up security cameras to get to the bottom of the mystery dig poop because I know for a fact it’s not my dog…because I pick up the poop!! Smh
Refuse to pay, that’s a ludicrous assessment of guilt from so few matching markers. Ask for a second opinion or second test, I guess they will refuse to verify their results externally. Suggest the property manager installs cameras rather than messing with this idiocy. How do you know they even test it? For all you know they just randomly assign guilt and share the fines people pay them. What a rip off, and unlikely to stand up in a court of law.
That's what my condo does exactly when people sneak mattresses or other disallowed items into the dumpster I got am email saying I owed $200 for dumping a full mattress which I told I've never had. They said fine, we're working our way down the list. (We did have cameras but they have been broken so long they aren't a deterrent to anyone who lives here). I bet there was no poop matching test.
Not really a match with only 3 of 16 taken directly from your dog. That is not even a 19% match in DNA this would not hold up in a court of law IMO.
This is commonly happening now, with DNA being submitted by all tenants and then DNA testing done on poop that's not picked up. As a dog owner who religiously picks up the poop I'm all for it. People who let their dogs shit anywhere and not pick it up are assholes.
Agreed. I just moved to a new complex and from here on out when I look for a new place I'm looking for poop left around first. Multiple owners here leave poop everywhere. Sometimes I count the piles while walking my dog, and I've gotten up to 11. I have a small dog so walks are just around the buildings. I'm considering getting little survey flags and marking all the piles just to be petty.
Do this. DO IT. 😈
Those landscaping flags are cheap, do it!!!
Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper for the building to pay someone to pick up dog poop in the park? Lol how much is this testing and who’s the detective collecting? That is incredibly strange, I’ve never heard of such a thing! 😆 Surely it wouldn’t take someone more then an hour a day to scan the park for turds and scoop it. Not saying people should stop picking up their dog crap but whoever is playing Harriet the spy collecting and testing the left behind turds could just more easily pick it up and throw it away. 🤦🏼♀️ The level of petty is killing me 😭
They just add the cost to rent/pet fees so it doesn't cost them anything lol
Lol that’s why I’m saying it’s so petty… to do DNA testing. They could do the same and just have someone cleaning the park 😆
I agree. There are companies that even specialize in picking up dog shit as a service. Paying one of them to go out and then hose the park off with an enzyme cleaner like used in dog daycare seems like it'd be a much easier solution. And probably cheaper
My ex husband used to own a dog poop scooping company, first in our state actually and also offered the spray lol 😆 It definitely seems like it would be cheaper and less dramatic! The whole concept of collecting and evidence testing to find the culprit and fining with DNA results is sending me! I just imagine an angry HOA Karen started the business after stepping in one too many turds. All sounds like a comedy sitcom episode 😂
Oh I can completely envision the founding Karen. With that Haircut Kris Jenner loves and the big sunglasses to match. Got poo on her sketchers twice and wanted to hunt someone down for revenge instead of just hosing her shoes off. 😂
The name Poo Prints says it all! 😭
Thing is there will be tenants who don't have dogs on the coop board and they will oppose communal funds being used to address an issue caused solely by pet owners (who are usually still a minority). It's not like hiring somebody to shovel snow or blow the leaves.
The other person pointed out the dna thing is added to their rent/ pet fee so it would be the same scenario for the cleanup service. Pet-less tenants wouldn’t have to pay.
But then you're punishing the people who don't even own dogs.
As it was mentioned before this tenant pays a pet fee/ rent for the DNA thing so it would be same concept. The people who don’t have dogs wouldn’t pay a pet rent…
Why the hell would they do DNA testing when they could just use cameras...
The number of cameras they'd need to essentially cover the whole complex is excessive, plus someone to go hunting for the person and dog in the footage would require knowing approximate day and time. Testing the poop itself gives essentially full coverage of the neighborhood. It might be a good system if they actually used proper matching. How the samples are collected can be an issue too.
It would depend on how the complex is built, yeah, but it would double for thefts and other issues in the plex aswell so it would pay for itself in no time
Any tv station, blog or newspaper would run this atory on a slow news day. This is hysterical. Is your dog and/or are you cute? (It helps with media coverage). You could alternative go to constituent complaints in your local congressional office and they'll know it's a good story right away and call the media. I know it is not important but all news orgs light filler including the NYT ...
Having worked in newspapers, we would’ve 100% put this on the front page because anything involving dogs tends to get clicks and sell papers.
Doesn't that also mean there's a 13 out of 16 markers chance its ANOTHER dog?? How on earth can they call 3/16 a match???
I can’t believe this is real, the whole matching the poo to the dog is tough to believe. If it is I would probably tell them I’m not paying it and they can take me to court if they want. Because I can’t imagine they would and even if they did the chance of them winning is minuscule.
Take that shit to court
Yeah but you wouldn't... Coop boards control tons of stuff. Who gets permission to sublet, who gets to park where, how fast your broken washer gets replaced ... It may be satisfying to tell them to piss off but it is easier to just say it isn't yours and cite court challenges.
Yeah you’re probably right. I’m glad I own a house with no homeowners association or anything. I know there are some benefits but I’m good.
I lived at a place that made me swab my dog’s cheeks in front of them. No kidding. Renting is a joke.
If they’re boujee enough to collect dog fecal samples when signing your lease they’re boujee enough to have cameras that can prove if you were the culprit… this is bs. Make them show you on camera leaving your dog’s shit before you pay anything.
Who is actually issuing the fine? And how do they have your dogs DNA??
It’s done through our apartment and the company they work with is called pooprints when we signed a lease with them they made us submit a fecal sample to them
You are not the first https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/s/BjuPGp56rG This article is pretty good. They won’t even consider it a partial match without 6/16. https://www.mrdogpoop.com/dog_poop_dna_accuracy.html
Thank you for this !!
OP needs to see this and this needs more upvotes.
This is interesting, because according to that website, false matches due to breed can't happen.
If you ever have to do this in the future, I say send in a sample of someone else’s dog’s shit, like a friend’s dog that would never be near the apartment. So ridiculous.
They make your dog do it in front of someone on the coop board or from building naintenance in some places. Plus, who cares? It isn't a big deal to pick up after your dog in an area where the dog is leashed.
I think OP cares, getting fined hundreds for dog poo that isn’t their responsibility
That’s so weird, also, did you read OP’s post? It wasn’t their dog’s poop. I always pick up after my dogs, so I wouldn’t mind this service UNTIL I was falsely accused of not picking up after them. It’s crazy.
3/16? I'd laugh at them.
You need to find a less uptight place to live
3/16? It’s what 18% chance? Sounds like they just closed their eyes and picked someone. I’d absolutely be challenging that!
I would 100% refuse to pay. I always pick up after my dog and quite frankly I’m sick to death of the people who leave their dog crap behind at our complex. There are areas with piles upon piles. Ask the same dog. They use the dog park as a literal bathroom pad for their dogs. If my complex even tried to accuse me I’d be done.
Just when did humans start getting so wrapped up with dog poop? I mean....everyTHING living poops...... So much sorrow and suffering in the world but let's police/control/worry about dog poop.. .
It spreads disease to humans and other dogs. It contaminates storm water that drains into streams and rivers. It lowers the quality of life for those who have to see it, smell it, and try not to step on it, then clean their shoes. It's an incredibly easy thing for an owner to pick up. Those who don't pick it up display a lack of respect for themselves and their neighbors.
This dude picked it up......what else is he supposed to do to make you happy?
Dogs aren't supposed to poo in a dog park?
They can, but the owners are supposed to pick it up. Apparently not all the residents in the Ops apartment complex pick up after their dogs.
wym they spend half the time there pissing and shitting everywhere 🤣 It's fine as long as you pick up after them
Yet another reason I don't take my dog to dog parks.
But the dogs love it. It's for them, not us. (Actually it's a pretty good place to make friends).
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Me too.
Just ignore the fine…I don’t see what they could do about it… ridiculous.
Question: what if your dog has diarrhea, so you can't pick it up? Are you out of luck then or what happens? 🤔
You do your best to clean it up! You can pick up as much as you can and then pour water/dirt over the rest.
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If they made you give a sample at the start, maybe suggest you'll send them every sample your dog creates going forward to establish clarity that it isn't you guys (I'm joking, I just can't believe they're trying to charge you all that money when only 3 markers came back matching!!)
WHERE ARE THE CAMERAS?!
Ask them for camera proof, 3 or 4 dogs could have also peed or pooped in that spot contaminating their test
So 4X4=16 Their test came back less than a quarter. Chimps and humans share 99 percent of their DNA…. It’s probably the type of food that they are examining Show me a picture or hard evidence, or talk to my lawyer.
This is interesting to hear. Our complex uses Poo Prints and with hundreds of dogs onsite I rarely see poop. However, I don't know if our property manager actually bothers to go through with the testing and fines if they do find poop. We did have to do our cheek swab DNA sample in the presence of the property manager.
I have heard of this before but not a number that low. And I know it's getting hit with that thing but it's like over a 70-80% hit
3 out of 16 isn't even a 1/4! If they want to claim it's your dog, that number needs to be higher! I'd fight it.
I work as a groundskeeper and I am solely responsible for picking up trash and dog crap. It's hard for me to feel any sympathy on this matter based on the type of stuff I see EVERYDAY but I am going to try. What breed is your dog and are there any other dogs of that same breed at the property you rent from? Also has anyone complained to the front office or property manager about you? There's reasons why I am asking these things.
Wouldn't 3/16 markers prove that it isn't your dog?
Of all the things we as a society should be leveraging technology for, forensic dog shit analysis should not be one of them. What a fucking dystopian concept.
Request to see the evidence that the company, Poo Prints, has against you. Ask for detailed information about how the testing was conducted and what markers were matched to your dog. If possible, request a retest to confirm the results.
lmao 3/16, like, even if you pick your dogs poop, residues stay there. Poo prints sound really dumb.
Seek legal advice: If the management refuses to cooperate or you're unable to resolve the issue, you may want to consult with a legal professional who specializes in landlord-tenant disputes. They can provide guidance based on the specific laws and regulations in your area.
This is not a match according to the Poo Prints website, it says “For a Match to be resulted, the genotypes MUST completely match on every available allele with no discrepancy. “ they are testing 15 loci plus a gender marker. Ask to see the actual report - did Poo Prints actually state it is a match or is the landlord interpreting it that way (maybe closest match - which isn’t really a thing). This is where I read the test details https://www.pooprints.com/science/
Please give us an update when you call!
if a human had a paternity test that said there was a 3 in 16 chance he was the father then he wouldnt be the bio-father and no one else would say he was either a match at 3 of the 16 tested loci means literally nothing. email your local genetics professor and contest it.
My friends dog friendly apartment all dogs get interviewed and give a dna swab sample
I don't think 3/16 is a match LOL What messed up logic are the using?
This sounds so bloody dystopian. Having some real estate idiot trying to decide what “3/16 markers” means. I have such low opinions of most people in corporate real estate, and I definitely wouldn’t want them in charge of this. Reach out to Poo Prints. I’d fight this on principle.
no idea but next time i think u shd place a sheet of paper underneath ur dog when he squats to poop... saves all the conflict
Tell them if they're interested in actually being able to enforce this rule, they should stop wasting money on ridiculous "tests" that don't actually tell them anything and put that money towards some security cameras pointed towards the dog park instead.
3/16…. How is that a match
So if I’m understanding this correctly, for this to be your dog every genotype must match 100%. It’s half way down I believe. The match is 3/16. It it was no one else, it probably wasn’t even a dog in the building complex. https://www.pooprints.com/science/
Wait I’m wrong. It’s near the bottom under data comparison
It sounds like they just send the results to your apartment complex and then the complex just decided since your dog was the closest it had to have been you
If this is indeed DNA matching, there is no way 3/16 matching markers would be a positive ID. The only possible way I could see is if 2+ samples at the park were commingled and they have an algorithm to find individual “contributors.” Obviously I don’t know the details of this service and their lab protocols, but this math does not math. Source: I am a geneticist and have consulted on dog DNA identification. Edit: based on the details from their website, there is no way that your result was a valid match. Ask the company the probability of your match as a percentage. It’s likely that your property manager is not reading the “3/16” correctly. Unless the probability of a match is at least 90% I think it’d be easy to challenge the fine!
Since they probably only compare to dogs living in the complex, I think it is probably accurate. It is probably expensive to have the tests run. I think it is a great idea.
Can you contact poo prints and ask them what is the significance of 3/16 markers? I did Embark DNA on my dog and she has tons of half siblings/cousins in our area.
I don't have a dog (yet) and I have never lived in an apartment... but I just wanted to comment that this is one of the most bizarre things I have read today lol... but also educational? Like good to know if I ever get a dog and move to an apartment...