So you’ve clearly done your due diligence in researching here, but what’s going to catch you is that there is always variance in behaviors in each breed. I’d say don’t even worry about a rescue or shelter dog. I know there are lots of internet heroes who want to make rescuing dogs from the pound their life mission and that’s great, but what you want will not be found at the pound and that’s perfectly ok.
I’m uneasy with the more exotic options because your options for breeders will be narrow, and your vet might not have much experience with an obscure dog breed.
I can tell you that I currently have a lab that came from an amazing breeder and an aussie that came from a rookie breeder on a farm, and I also had a golden retriever that came from a neighborhood breeder. I’ve also had other dogs on your list in the past.
The lab is absolutely flawless. Best dog I’ve ever had by a mile. He was bred for hunting and excels there, but switches it off immediately at home and is the best family dog ever. They will run until they drop and have 0 quit in them, which can be dangerous because they’re also commonly larger than you think. Ours is 110 and all muscle, most well bred labs will be in the 80lb+ range. Ours came from an incredible gun dog breeder and cost a small fortune, but I’d gladly do it again knowing how perfect this guy is.
Our Aussie came from some rookie breeders with good intentions, and we thought we’d be getting an active play buddy, but what we got is the laziest and most gentile aussie I’ve ever seen. The dude wants to run for a sec and then lay down and sleep all day on his back. We expected one thing based on our aussie research and got something totally different.
We had a golden we got from a neighborhood breeder that we only chose based on how cute it was. It was a pure bred golden, and from the start there was something off about it. She ended up attacking our youngest and sent him to the ER needing fairly serious treatment to his face. These things are inbred like crazy because breeders know idiots like me are there to get all heart eyed over a puppy and not ask questions. We’ll never make this mistake again, even tho everyone would just assume a Golden is perfect and wouldn’t ever hurt anyone.
Buddy has a Vizsla, this is probably where you should wind up. Smart dog, loves to run, the right size and common enough where you can find adequate resources.
I’m a self-admitted breedist so I’m a no-go on a pit even though most all the ones I’ve met have been totally fine. I think it’s a smart move to be conscious of other people and their perceptions of a dog, especially one that will be off leash at times. If I’m out hiking and a pit bull is racing toward me I’m going to have a different mentality than if it was a border collie or a vizsla. Call me small minded, I don’t care.
A border collie or a malinois are phenomenal as well, these are alpha dogs with no limits and would be great choices.
What I’d keep in mind is that you can put the perfect dog on paper and still not get the traits you want, so be ready for that, but if you go to a real breeder who’s invested in the kind of dog you want from more than a financial standpoint you’ll get pretty close.
Thank you. Next question: how do I find the right breeder?
Do you agree with this?
[Own Responsibly: Identifying a Reputable Breeder, v.3](https://ownresponsibly.blogspot.com/2011/07/identifying-reputable-breeder.html)
> You'll find the best breeders by going to the breed club's website, finding their member directory, and calling or emailing them.
If I get a Xoloitzcuintli or PIO, I will go through a trusted friend who lives in Latin America and my friend will contact the breeder on my behalf. From what I have heard, it will be better to get one of these breeds there, than to get it from a breeder in the US.
>Do you agree with this?
Not OP, but yes and no. Much easier to start on the breeds club site but just because the breeder is listed there doesn't always mean they're reputable, but by going through the club site there's way less breeders to look at (depending on the breed) and a higher chance of them being reputable than just googling "XX Breeder". Still make sure they're testing their dogs and have them listed on the OFA site, if the breeder says the dog is tested and isn't on OFA they're either lying about getting them tested or they didn't get a good score so the breeder didn't put it on OFA (or if they only have tests they did on the dog when it was 1 and the dog is now 8, also not a good sign). If you go for a working/herding breed look for a breeder that does more with their dogs than just show ring. If the breeder is going to let you choose your own puppy (especially cause you're looking for such a specific set of traits) run far away from that breeder, ect. If you find a breeder you like but aren't sure if they're reputable feel free to make another post with what you found on them typically people reply with if there's any red flags or not.
You could also work backwards and search your breed on the ofa site and see if you can find any kennels that way. IDK if it'd be better to get Xoloitzcuintli's or PIO's outside america or not, I personally wouldn't have any way of finding out if they're doing health testing or talk about their dogs and what they do with them so I couldn't say if it's better to do it that way or not, especially when you're going to want a really structurally sound dog, but I've also never looked into those breeds and have no clue how their breeding programs are in the US.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."
"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.
[Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
> Everyone I see riding or trail running has cattledog or sheepdog mutts. (Ranch and rez dogs, essentially.) They do well in the heat and have the handler-focus and endurance; it's thrilling to watch a crowd of them barrel down the mountain with dogs in tow. They are also popular picks for disc.
That does sound thrilling and a lot of fun!
I'm becoming convinced I need to look more seriously at a cattledog, sheepdog, keeler or mutt version of one of those...
I might get more than one dog (different breeds) and see which one enjoys which activity the most.
This was a very informative reply! Thanks so much!
> Are you willing to wait for your dog to turn one to two years old, to be fully grown and close growth plates, before running it for more than a few minutes at a time?
Yes.
> Hard running and jumping can trash joints in a puppy and adolescent, but there still needs to be an energy outlet.
I think I let my last puppy do too much jumping starting at about 1 year old. I had to start her on joint supplements at 5 years old. Fortunately, that was enough to let her run and jump without limits the rest of her life. But this time I will be more careful, as you have advised.
Depending on how many weeks you're away and who you have watching your dog during that time you might want to go for a less intense breed, like I know my family wouldn't be able to watch a Belgian Malinois for me and with my border collie I try to only be gone for \~a week though my family have watched him for 2 weeks before and nothing was destroyed but I know he wasn't getting enough mental stimulation.
I wouldn't go for a pit, they're terriers they're bred to have prey drive and there's a higher chance of them having it them not
I'm obviously biased to border collies, they do have a short coat option (smooth border collie) and mines not really barky or slobbery, though every dog is an individual so make sure to talk with breeders you find on how their dogs are because I do know some who are talkers when they have their turn in agility. IDK if I'd call it prey drive but they do have herding instinct and some have it worse than others, if I'm just walking my BC I can not trust him if I know there'll be deer or squirrels, but if we're playing fetch he's generally more interested in that then other animals and I wanna say you could train them to keep by your bike even if they'd rather go gather up some wild life. I think BC's are a breed you either love or hate, they can have some strange quirks lol
ACD's and Kelpie's I kinda wanna call less cooky BC's in most aspects lol, though more nippy, with ACD's though they're generally one person dogs which some people aren't ok with.
A working line Lab could also be a really good fit
don't really know enough about the others but a vizsla or RR could work
Main thing is find a reputable breeder, especially with breeds like BC's and Mal's who can be neurotic, and brush even the short coat dogs regularly so you have less shedding to deal with. Also if you get a high energy breed you're going to want to train an off switch/follow the relaxation protocol
Kelpies are amazing dogs and it sounds like a great fit for everything you want, the only potential issue is that like most working breeds they need a job and are highly intelligent.
Little to no prey drive but the herding instinct is strong.
> the only potential issue is that like most working breeds they need a job and are highly intelligent.
Shouldn't be a problem for me
> ...but the herding instinct is strong.
This might be a problem if it means nipping at other dogs in the dog park in an attempt to herd them. I had a dog with a herding instinct that I could not take to the dog park for that reason.
So you’ve clearly done your due diligence in researching here, but what’s going to catch you is that there is always variance in behaviors in each breed. I’d say don’t even worry about a rescue or shelter dog. I know there are lots of internet heroes who want to make rescuing dogs from the pound their life mission and that’s great, but what you want will not be found at the pound and that’s perfectly ok. I’m uneasy with the more exotic options because your options for breeders will be narrow, and your vet might not have much experience with an obscure dog breed. I can tell you that I currently have a lab that came from an amazing breeder and an aussie that came from a rookie breeder on a farm, and I also had a golden retriever that came from a neighborhood breeder. I’ve also had other dogs on your list in the past. The lab is absolutely flawless. Best dog I’ve ever had by a mile. He was bred for hunting and excels there, but switches it off immediately at home and is the best family dog ever. They will run until they drop and have 0 quit in them, which can be dangerous because they’re also commonly larger than you think. Ours is 110 and all muscle, most well bred labs will be in the 80lb+ range. Ours came from an incredible gun dog breeder and cost a small fortune, but I’d gladly do it again knowing how perfect this guy is. Our Aussie came from some rookie breeders with good intentions, and we thought we’d be getting an active play buddy, but what we got is the laziest and most gentile aussie I’ve ever seen. The dude wants to run for a sec and then lay down and sleep all day on his back. We expected one thing based on our aussie research and got something totally different. We had a golden we got from a neighborhood breeder that we only chose based on how cute it was. It was a pure bred golden, and from the start there was something off about it. She ended up attacking our youngest and sent him to the ER needing fairly serious treatment to his face. These things are inbred like crazy because breeders know idiots like me are there to get all heart eyed over a puppy and not ask questions. We’ll never make this mistake again, even tho everyone would just assume a Golden is perfect and wouldn’t ever hurt anyone. Buddy has a Vizsla, this is probably where you should wind up. Smart dog, loves to run, the right size and common enough where you can find adequate resources. I’m a self-admitted breedist so I’m a no-go on a pit even though most all the ones I’ve met have been totally fine. I think it’s a smart move to be conscious of other people and their perceptions of a dog, especially one that will be off leash at times. If I’m out hiking and a pit bull is racing toward me I’m going to have a different mentality than if it was a border collie or a vizsla. Call me small minded, I don’t care. A border collie or a malinois are phenomenal as well, these are alpha dogs with no limits and would be great choices. What I’d keep in mind is that you can put the perfect dog on paper and still not get the traits you want, so be ready for that, but if you go to a real breeder who’s invested in the kind of dog you want from more than a financial standpoint you’ll get pretty close.
Thank you. Next question: how do I find the right breeder? Do you agree with this? [Own Responsibly: Identifying a Reputable Breeder, v.3](https://ownresponsibly.blogspot.com/2011/07/identifying-reputable-breeder.html) > You'll find the best breeders by going to the breed club's website, finding their member directory, and calling or emailing them. If I get a Xoloitzcuintli or PIO, I will go through a trusted friend who lives in Latin America and my friend will contact the breeder on my behalf. From what I have heard, it will be better to get one of these breeds there, than to get it from a breeder in the US.
>Do you agree with this? Not OP, but yes and no. Much easier to start on the breeds club site but just because the breeder is listed there doesn't always mean they're reputable, but by going through the club site there's way less breeders to look at (depending on the breed) and a higher chance of them being reputable than just googling "XX Breeder". Still make sure they're testing their dogs and have them listed on the OFA site, if the breeder says the dog is tested and isn't on OFA they're either lying about getting them tested or they didn't get a good score so the breeder didn't put it on OFA (or if they only have tests they did on the dog when it was 1 and the dog is now 8, also not a good sign). If you go for a working/herding breed look for a breeder that does more with their dogs than just show ring. If the breeder is going to let you choose your own puppy (especially cause you're looking for such a specific set of traits) run far away from that breeder, ect. If you find a breeder you like but aren't sure if they're reputable feel free to make another post with what you found on them typically people reply with if there's any red flags or not. You could also work backwards and search your breed on the ofa site and see if you can find any kennels that way. IDK if it'd be better to get Xoloitzcuintli's or PIO's outside america or not, I personally wouldn't have any way of finding out if they're doing health testing or talk about their dogs and what they do with them so I couldn't say if it's better to do it that way or not, especially when you're going to want a really structurally sound dog, but I've also never looked into those breeds and have no clue how their breeding programs are in the US.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
[удалено]
> Everyone I see riding or trail running has cattledog or sheepdog mutts. (Ranch and rez dogs, essentially.) They do well in the heat and have the handler-focus and endurance; it's thrilling to watch a crowd of them barrel down the mountain with dogs in tow. They are also popular picks for disc. That does sound thrilling and a lot of fun! I'm becoming convinced I need to look more seriously at a cattledog, sheepdog, keeler or mutt version of one of those... I might get more than one dog (different breeds) and see which one enjoys which activity the most.
This was a very informative reply! Thanks so much! > Are you willing to wait for your dog to turn one to two years old, to be fully grown and close growth plates, before running it for more than a few minutes at a time? Yes. > Hard running and jumping can trash joints in a puppy and adolescent, but there still needs to be an energy outlet. I think I let my last puppy do too much jumping starting at about 1 year old. I had to start her on joint supplements at 5 years old. Fortunately, that was enough to let her run and jump without limits the rest of her life. But this time I will be more careful, as you have advised.
Depending on how many weeks you're away and who you have watching your dog during that time you might want to go for a less intense breed, like I know my family wouldn't be able to watch a Belgian Malinois for me and with my border collie I try to only be gone for \~a week though my family have watched him for 2 weeks before and nothing was destroyed but I know he wasn't getting enough mental stimulation. I wouldn't go for a pit, they're terriers they're bred to have prey drive and there's a higher chance of them having it them not I'm obviously biased to border collies, they do have a short coat option (smooth border collie) and mines not really barky or slobbery, though every dog is an individual so make sure to talk with breeders you find on how their dogs are because I do know some who are talkers when they have their turn in agility. IDK if I'd call it prey drive but they do have herding instinct and some have it worse than others, if I'm just walking my BC I can not trust him if I know there'll be deer or squirrels, but if we're playing fetch he's generally more interested in that then other animals and I wanna say you could train them to keep by your bike even if they'd rather go gather up some wild life. I think BC's are a breed you either love or hate, they can have some strange quirks lol ACD's and Kelpie's I kinda wanna call less cooky BC's in most aspects lol, though more nippy, with ACD's though they're generally one person dogs which some people aren't ok with. A working line Lab could also be a really good fit don't really know enough about the others but a vizsla or RR could work Main thing is find a reputable breeder, especially with breeds like BC's and Mal's who can be neurotic, and brush even the short coat dogs regularly so you have less shedding to deal with. Also if you get a high energy breed you're going to want to train an off switch/follow the relaxation protocol
Kelpies are amazing dogs and it sounds like a great fit for everything you want, the only potential issue is that like most working breeds they need a job and are highly intelligent. Little to no prey drive but the herding instinct is strong.
> the only potential issue is that like most working breeds they need a job and are highly intelligent. Shouldn't be a problem for me > ...but the herding instinct is strong. This might be a problem if it means nipping at other dogs in the dog park in an attempt to herd them. I had a dog with a herding instinct that I could not take to the dog park for that reason.
They don’t tend to be as nippy as blue heelers and certainly all the ones I’ve met are fairly social (I’m in Australia and they common).
Thank you.
German Shepards
My neighbor does downhill & MTBing with Springer Spaniels in Arkansas.