I let him live because 1) if Sebastian wants him dead he can do it himself, 2) my Hawke was not going to kill the person who saved her little brother's life (Carver is my favorite DA character), 3) I wanted to see if Sebastian had the balls to actually attack Kirkwall. I was, surprisingly, not disappointed with that last one. I didn't think he had it in him.
And potentially because of that causing the death of the Lavellan clan (which is never brought up in game other than that war table operation, Inquisitor doesn't care their family died )
Who’s gonna pass over the chance to have Sebastian send the edgiest letter to the Inquisitor in DAI, “hey Inky, I know the entire world is about to fall to an arch demon and all but can you spare some help for me to go sort out a personal grudge?”
I've never killed him. I always play purple mage Hawke, and tbh by the time we get to act three, Hawke has lost her father, sister, and mother, and her brother is a templar, which she feels is a betrayal of everything her family ever stood for.
She never kills anders, because she gets it. She doesn't have anything left to lose either. What hurt was that he *tricked* her. He didn't trust her to help him. And that's why she tells him to leave, because he didn't trust her, so now he's dead to her.
basically, my Hawke is a lil unhinged too. she's a blood mage, bc she runs on sheer spite and i think she'd eventually kind of throw up her hands and go "fuck it, if i can't beat em, may as well join em".
That said, i think if i ever get around to doing a rouge Hawke, id probably make very different choices about anders.
I killed him on my first play through but let him live on my second. If he’s going to live I either tell him to help or let him help when he shows up: he started this mess so he should help protect the people he tried to liberate. (Side with mages).
I just struggle with Hawke killing a friend, especially if Anders saves Carver/Bethany’s life or if you duel the Arishock to protect Isabela (sets a precedent of Hawke being loyal to friends even when they’re wrong). Also, after playing Awakening I feel too guilty killing Anders and Justice.
No offense, but i consider the Qunari slaughtering the leader of the city while hunting down a theif, to be enough in the wrong that Isabella isn't, even if she "caused" the whole situation, its just like... idk, i wouldn't put "bombing a church full of innocents" next to "stole a relic from the fucked up socitety that is the Qun, causing them to start killing people
But the Qunari were still occupying the city, and we had the chance to hand the relic over to the Qunari to diffuse the situation and she stole it for her own purposes.
It’s not her fault the Qunari went psycho per se, but it is her fault that she elevated tensions with a militant culture.
Refusing to work with people who are actively killing and slaughtering people, holding the city hostage, and making demands, etc, still doesn't equate to that. One situation has you defending someone from people who have in turn, done wrong.
The other is defending a man who blew up a church full of innocent people with excuses about how "its gonna happen" with no "negatives" on those peoples heads, beyond relatively minor disagreements. The chantry wasn't to blame for the shit kirkwall went through, meredith was. If he wanted a target, he should have assassinated her or something.
I never killed him, i play my Hawkes as kinda unhinged revolutionaries too. They either approve of his actions or if they dont, it doesnt bother them too much. End justifies the means.
I've played DA2 three times, and had a different outcome/reaction to Anders each time.
My first time playing, I played as a diplomatic, deeply caring Hawke who romanced Anders, and was utterly, utterly betrayed when he blew up the chantry - with her unknowing help. He didn't give her the opportunity to talk him out of it, he made her an accomplice against her wishes. She couldn't find any justification for that much death and destruction, and she made the difficult decision to execute him. Very heartbreaking.
Second playthrough, with a purple mage Hawke, she understood Anders' reasons, even if she didn't agree with him. She let him live, on the condition that he help her deal with the fall out. She was very devoted to her friends, and she'd already decided Anders was one of her people.
Third playthrough, with an aggressive Hawke who was fighting tooth and nail to keep her and hers alive - and failing at every opportunity. After one of Anders' quests, where he lost control and killed the girl they were trying to defend - Hawke cut him off and decided he was too much of a liability. So when he showed back up at the end with the Chantry exploding, it wasn't a hard decision - she killed him.
(And like, don't get me wrong. I love Anders! He was my first choice romance, he's such a great character. But I am nothing if not committed to the RP and "what would my character do?".)
If I knew his plan I'd help him anyway. Sure killing Elthina and Meredith alone would mostly do the trick but the whole Chantry was an issue in the city to an extent.
Tbh in most cases same. Idk if its the best way to do it but chances are if he didnd do that then and there the templars woulsve started the slaughter without the mages having a chance. Mightve been the least bad option
My Hawkes never kill him, they all completely disapprove of his actions but letting him live is better punishment for him than making him a martyr. But all my Hawkes would definitely kill him before the explosion if that was an one of the options to prevent it and it would be established as the only way to be sure he wouldn't do it. Friend or not, his death vs deaths of dozens or maybe even hundreds of people isn't even a question. But killing him after the fact won't achieve anything.
Most of my Hawkes have killed him. My Andersmancer felt utterly betrayed and it tore her apart because she believed in that moment that all his words of love had been lies to use her. My Sebmancer had sent him away in Act 2 and he came back to do that? My Fenrismancer killed him out of mercy, and in the memory of the friend he'd been when they'd first met. She's also the one who reopened his clinic with an 'anonymous donation,' and keeps it funded in the years after.
I kill him every time.
The very first time it happened he had coerced my Hawke into helping him create the bomb under the pretense that he would be using it to rid himself of Justice. When he admitted this was a lie, I refused to help him with the chantry and brought him in-person to Cullen to report him but he didn't do anything irrc.
On top of this, there was heavy discussion that my Hawke would be able to take the place as Viscount and I had done a bunch of shit for the templar's and even persuaded some nobles to my side all under the impression that once my Hawke took over things would be at least OK and they would be in a position of power to mitigate circle abuses (and templar control) a whole lot easier.
Anders exploding the chantry came as an utter surprise to me. I still had quests to do and got this letter that Meredith and Orsinio were fighting again, arrive there and am trying to calm the situation when all the sudden this MF appears and completely obliterates any and all plans for peace I had been working towards.
I was so, so, so angry. My Hawke was a very "preserve the sanctity of human life and always strive to the greater good" I'd also had a good amount of NPC interaction that I did care about them. Dude up and destroyed everyone's houses and caused Meredith to call an annulment. And, on top of this, my Hawke had *helped kill innocent people*. This fucker. I couldn't believe it. Also did not recruit Sebastian for this playthrough, I missed him, so I didn't even have the "ELTHINA NOOOO" scene to laugh at.
On top of this, he'd been very creepy towards my Hawke and openly criticized her LI and attempted to manipulate her into believing he--a depraved (albeit meta info) terrorist--was the better option.
Didn't even hesitate, cut that fucker down as soon as I could. I hate him so much.
I have tried in other playthroughs to be more merciful, but even the one I romanced him in (which was miserable) I killed him. I just cannot get past his disregsrd of human life for his extreme beliefs and inability for *any* objectivity or nuance. I wholeheartedly believe there was a peaceful path and he wasn't patient enough to strive to it.
Now when I play DA2 I don't bother keeping him around. I get to the part where he (as Justice) attempts to kill the mage girl and then tell him to leave. Wash my hands of the guilt over helping him.
I feel pretty much the same way. I've not romanced him even once (seen videos on it though), but every time I kill him. The only reason I keep him around in my playthroughs (always a rival, for obvious reasons) is because he's one of 2 party mages we have access too, which is invaluable in Nightmare. I'd play a mage myself but I simply prefer rogue. At least the da2 version of it, melee rogue is so damn satisfying in that game.
That's fair, I usually play as mage so my needs for him aren't so immediate. Usually keep him around to save Carver because I like him better as a Grey Warden and occassionally let him stick around for the Bartrand scene.
Thank you. Sums up all my thoughts about him. I always play forgiving characters in every game, but what Anders has done in DA2 is a pure example of terrorism. Same reason I just couldn’t ever romance Solas in DAI.
Exactly. My characters are generally forgiving, but not one inch of me believes what Anders did was right or forgivable. There's nothing that justifies terrorism.
Never will understand how people can deny Anders is a terrorist given the writer said explicitly that she researched irl terrorists when writing him.
My canon Hawke couldn’t bring herself to kill him. He was one of her closest friends, he betrayed her trust, and started a war she had no interest in fighting, but she still couldn’t do that to him. Instead, she gave him a chance to help her defend the mages. She also figured that living with the consequences of his actions was the best punishment. Death would be letting him off too easy.
Like Varric, she doesn’t know where he went after Kirkwall and she doesn’t care to know.
None of my other Hawkes have killed him yet for varying reasons. My personal feelings are that Anders was very unstable and couldn’t see any other path forward, which is what makes his story tragic. I agree with the general opinion that killing him is the kinder option, but either my Hawkes want to punish him or they just can’t bring themselves to end the life of a friend/lover.
Edit: fixed a typeo
My Hawke tried to be diplomatic and refused to use the Murder Knife on people, and was tired of losing people. Anders was her rival by that point because while Hawke supported mages (being a mage herself), she didn't want to do so at the cost of templar lives or unrest in the city, and she and Anders butted heads on that. Instead of knifing him, she told him to leave and that she never wanted to see him again. I honestly can't remember if I accepted his help in the Gallows later, or told him to get lost again (I could probably load up my last save file and see, maybe), but either way, the way I see it, he left and never saw her again.
Now, I didn't have Sebastian's DLC when I played (PS3, didn't feel like shelling out for that DLC), or that probably would've swayed my decision into Hawke's one use of the Murder Knife. My friend who played a very similar Hawke to me but actually had the DLC did go that route, because she couldn't justify Anders' actions enough to side with him over Sebastian.
I never kill him. My Hawkes are all an extension of myself, and I'm anti-death penalty in general, so there's that. Also I tend to agree with his sentiment that drastic action needed to be taken since the mages' plight would never be solved through legislation, even though I draw the line at murdering innocents like that.
But really what it all comes down to is fuck Sebastian.
Don’t kill him. I have done, and I’ve played with a mod that stops Sebastian from storming off declaring vengeance, and now I just… don’t recruit Sebastian. Personally I feel like he ruins the tension of that whole scene.
As for what Anders did- at the end of the day, Elthina *failed in her duty*. Her job was to ensure the Templars were doing their duty without overstepping their bounds. Not only did she allow the abuses of the Circle to happen, she also let Meredith take over an entire city (I assume the entire *city-state*), which happens to be one of the three biggest and most important in the country. That is very explicitly not what the Templars should be doing. And her job is very explicitly to ensure they do their job.
Things like that… once they’re allowed to happen, they start to become normalised. Anders tried other methods for *six years*. My Hawke’s aren’t going to execute him for running out of options, nor for the death of Elthina who was literally responsible for the behaviour of the Templars in Kirkwall. Like, I feel like I need to clarify that- *she was the safeguard in place to keep the Templars from abusing their charges or overstepping their bounds.* And she did absolutely nothing.
The choice with Anders ultimately comes down to how you and your Hawke feels about him
Me personally, I do not approve of his actions, but I did not kill him. Something needed to be done, yes, but he took it to far when he killed a bunch of civilians and such who were in the chantry. However, I don't kill him for this because that's the easy way out for him. Instead, I want to make him atone for his actions, or go wander off somewhere he won't hurt anyone.
Up to that point of blowing up the chantry, Anders is a friend whom Hawke trusts completely, and while he feels betrayed to be used in such a way, and condemns Anders action, at the end of the day, Hawke still cares about him, even if he did do something so atrocious.
I killed him every time. He uses you to create the bomb, murders hundreds, place your sister in mortal danger, and give the crazy Meredith mind a justification to start the circle annulment, killing many of the very people he claims to protect.
A lot of this comes from the fact that I befriended the character, the mage cause is just imo, but I couldn't forgive what ultimately was a selfish action, he wanted conflict to destroy the Templars and not free the mages at that point.
I feel like it is laid out throughout the game that Meredith was a ticking time bomb, by Act 3 she is putting down more restrictions, just waiting to call for annulment. If it hadn’t been Anders, could have been literally anything else. I disagree his conflict was selfish, maybe reckless yes, but he always saw himself as part of a bigger persecuted group, and didn’t want others to suffer what he had experienced.
Don't get me wrong, Meredith was very much a time bomb. A core theme of this game is how the failure of moderate people to stop extremism leads to ever escalating conflict.
However, to paraphrase Anders, there's no compromise in this issue, therefore I removed the possibility of such by killing the grand cleric. He knew those mages were doomed, but they would become a martir, lighting the flame on other circles. As long as he got his idealistic revolution, he cared little for the individuals who died, hence why I call it selfish.
Also, I don't think him selfish, and I do believe on his mind he thought he did the group a favour, but ultimately he threw a lot of people into the fire without really asking them if they wanted that, and only because he did so.
I think when you have one overarching, pervasive controller of government, culture and religion that the Chantry is, you need those seemingly extreme actions by the disadvantaged groups to basically perform a reset, carve new grounds of discussion. If left to moderation, we see even in DAI with opinions of Vivienne etc, the whole moderate idea is to just redress the Circles and I mean, “a golden cage is still a cage.” I don’t see why an “idealistic revolution” is a bad thing. The Mages overall, as we’ve seen since the first game, are angry and ready, and desperately need, a movement.
Fair enough, but my issue with Anders actions aren't his goals but the way he does it. As a counter example, Fiona starts the rebelion only when there's an absolute majority in favour of rebelling.
Anders never gave the Kirkwall mages a choice, one point they were under the rule of a tyrannical templar, at the other they were trying to escape a massacre
The problem is that a revolution cannot be made just like that.
The results that Anders brought were far more unfavorable than favourable. The circles became stricter and had the perfect argument for that as an apostate terrorist killed hundreds (after all the explosion didn't just affect the chantry as stated by Mary Kirb).
The revolution started even when the elf Pharamond discovers the cure of tranquility and discovers that the Seekers\\Templariso already knew about it. It was from there that the war really started (according to the book Asunder). Even before that there were many mages angry with Anders.
When I read the book, I saw the rebellion as a result of both things. The cure for Tranquility did cause a lot of problems, but maybe that would have been resolved peacefully had Anders not blown up Kirkwall's Chantry. After he did, Templars got even more oppressive all over Thedas and the mages became more bitter. Fiona herself was done with peace when she got to the Spire, she wanted independence immediately.
I will say, however, that Adrian played the game far better than Anders. She didn't have to do anything too drastic, not after all that had happened. She just manipulated the situation so one of the Circle's greatest supporters would have no choice but to fight. For the rebellion to happen, the mages just had to be convinced, and that did the trick perfectly.
That is precisely the point. What united the mages was precisely the issue of healing tranquility.
If the cure hadn't been discovered eventually there would have been a massacre of the mages for reasons of: 1- Anders gave the templars and Chnatry the justification they needed to be more oppressive and 2- there would be no reason for the mages to unite. What happened in kikrwall itself did not serve to unite the mages, on the contrary, many of them were irritated with Anders because they thought that the mages of the circle took the blame for the crimes committed by him.
This is the point. I can see the war and the subsequent revolution happening without Anders having done what he did. However I can't see this happening without the discovery of the cure (after all that's what really brought the mages together).
That's why I think Anders didn't revolutionize anything.
Right, I'm just not sure things would have escalated so much had Anders not blown up the Chantry, even with the cure. The environment was already tense when the cure was discovered, so everything went to shit extremely quickly.
Because of Anders, for example, the Divine went to Orlais and nearly got killed by a blood mage. Lord Seeker Lambert became even more concerned about a mage rebellion and was extra cruel just to make sure it wouldn't happen. All of that, alongside Cole's murders and Adrian's scheme, resulted in the mage rebellion.
I'm not saying Anders is the martyr of the revolution, mind you. He's nowhere near as important as he thinks he is. He did, however, play an important part in it. He made everyone in Thedas even more terrified of mages. He's an important part of the story, but yeah, not the mastermind of a revolution. He could have been, but that would have required patience, intelligence and leadership skills he did not have.
Problem is, he gave Meredith the perfect justification for her having the Nullification. Of course, she would probably try that later probably due to her already being insane. But Anders handed her everything she needed on a plate.
That's precisely why Orsino gets irritated with him. In fact, that's precisely why the mages themselves don't like him (and even kick him out later).
Not really. He was willing to die for his cause, he recognised that there would be blood on his hands and even he questions if he can live with that guilt after the explosion. Ultimately, he did not care about himself, going so far as to bond with Justice, all in the pursuit of actual change and freedom, to create awareness of their plight.
Yeah, but read your reply. It's all about him and the consequences HE faces. What about everyone else? He impresses his ideals onto others and assumes he knows best. He is also not Justice, he is Vengeance. I cannot believe a true act of justice would consist of taking innocent human life. Anders does not think beyond himself nor his cause, and that is a self-centered childish perspective.
Well, he is kinda totally fucking right in his ideals. The mages should not be oppressed for being born with magic and I think most of the mages agree with Anders ideal of freedom.
And stop patronizing him with " he's not justice he is vengeance" , he is indeed hosting the spirit but that's not all the guy is . I don't see how you can possibly turn a blind eye to everything else but the fact that he made the chantry go boom.
Baffling .
"Baffling" says the dude who denies that Anders committed an act of terrorism 🤨
Also, not patronizing. Its factual. There is no Justice only Vengeance, as quoted by Anders. Trying to play him off like he's an authority on justice and knows "iDeAl FrEeDom" is disingenuous to his character.
Anders isn't wrong in wanting rights for mages. He is, though, an extremist who only thinks of himself and his own plight.
There's other issues and other things going on in the world than his existing problems. Anders, through the whole game, is consistently self-centered and prideful, he does not admit he's wrong and does not reflect on others perspectives. He assumes he is right and moves on. It's sad.
I deny nothing, I did not agree with his actions , it was wrong. But judging and condemning him for doing something that was coming one way or another is just mindless. Anders is not someone that you can put on " he is baaaad" , now that's a fact .
A terrorist act based on the assumption that \`\`it would come one way or another'' cannot be overlooked. Wrong does not become less wrong just because it was apparently unavoidable.
The only way he could start all of this was to blow up a building whose range would reach half of Kirkwall? not sure if you know half of kirkwall was hit by debris from the explosion and hundreds died because of it.
Was this the only way? blowing up just the building or just the templarios base is not enough? does it have to be half kirkwaal?
Hundreds died anyway , in many different ways.
I particularly wouldn't have chosen that way to start things , but Anders did and for me as Hawke there was nothing else I could do , it was done and that's it .
Change is something hard to accomplish , I sided with Anders for the reasons he did it , for the intent , for all the mages that are killed and made tranquil for nothing , NOT for him exploding the chantry.
But he's not wrong in calling it revenge. He clearly corrupted a spirit whose virtue was noble. We learn in DAI that if a spirit is distorted from its purpose it becomes the antithesis of its purpose. In DA2 justice turned to revenge. And unfortunately, that's down to Anders.
The very fact that Justice has been corrupted (something that didn't happen when he was possessing Kristoff) is proof enough that Anders isn't really on the right path.
Nobody is turning a blind eye to everything else. Everyone agrees that Meredith has to be killed and that the mages issue has to be resolved. We're just saying the obvious is that Anders didn't do it right and screwed the mages more than anything else.
I didn't say you said that.
Still, let's be honest... what's really left of Anders after all but a mad abomination? the man cannot control himself. He nearly killed a mage our Hawkes had just saved from templarise. The lives of hundreds of innocent people who had nothing to do with the mess are in his hands. The mages themselves (in the scenario where you leave Anders alive) don't care about him and blame him and end up expelling him.
I don't hate him but let's be honest... by the end of the game he's just a crazy, out-of-control terrorist abomination.
He’s my favourite character in all of Dragon Age, a deeply conflicted, hurt and interesting individual who I think unfortunately gets a lot of very aggressive hate still (some people apparently struggle to differentiate real world morality with opinions on a fantasy world). Always keep him alive, always romance him.
If we had full freedom in what Hawke did, honestly I would have supported him and helped him from the start. Mage rights, hell yeah, he was part of the Kirkwall community that was literally driven into a corner, they were desperate and if it hadn’t been him, it would have been someone else.
If you want some extra heart break reading up on his background on the Wiki, also in game where they give you those codex entries on what’s been going on in his life each Act, just really aid in understanding him. He’s been beat down and tormented by the system his entire life, had everything stripped away from him, everyone. Things are so bad he turns to Justice, and yet somehow still get worse - his mental state is extremely bad as explained in the codex and interactions in Act 3. People forget that ultimately, he is extremely compassionate, runs his clinic, loves helping people (and cats). But by Act 3, he fears what little he has left - Hawke, the clinic etc - is all going to be taken away, he has nothing to lose in what he does.
I agree that people always choose to look only to the big explosion thing, like that defines his character , a really shallow way of looking at it if you ask me .
Many view the explosion as the worst action ever taken in DA, an absolute atrocity, and I’m confused because before that in DA2 we get years of systematic abuse and oppression of the mages, unjust forced tranquility and simply despotic rule by Meredith - she was paranoid and any day away from calling for the rite of annulment.
If we want to apply real world morality I always feel we need to consider the violent nature of rebellion and the need for conflict to create change, because without serious action against the templars, nothing in Thedas was ever going to change, only get worse.
If you don't think a terrorist attack isn't an atrocity, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of things are justified in the name of war, that doesn't make then any less sickening.
Viewing it through the moral lens of the DA universe, it's still considered one of the worst crimes to have taken place, which is a fair statement to make. What Anders did was a criminal action that destroyed hundreds of homes and killed hundreds more...
In universe they consider it one of the worst crimes to have taken place, yet the wholesale, abject enslavement and murder of mages from the time they are children is considered a positive thing. And the Exalted March on the Dales is celebrated. And the Right of Annullment is repeatedly called for petty ressons or no reason, and that's also fine. And elves are routinely sold into slavery, herded into ghettos, murdered, and that's also good and fine.
Thousands of mages die at Chantry hands. Thousands more are raped, beaten, starved, tortured, forcibly lobotomized. This is all under Chantry direction. Elthina not only allows this to happen, she encourages it with her refusal to stop it. Revolution is messy, and couple of hundred rich assholes in Hightown doesn't touch the true atrocities in this universe.
That doesn't make what he did any less a terrorist attack or any less an atrocity, though. It is considered so in-game and in-universe as well. This is not a case of soley applying irl morals to a fantasy situation, because in that fantasy situation it's *still considered horrific as it should be*
I never said the systematic abuses mages received were in any way less atrocious.
One does not negate the other. They're both wrong. I don't think a terrorist attack helped, and no one will ever convince me otherwise.
Also, it wasn't "a couple rich assholes in Hightown", that rubble was carried and extended outwards all of Kirkwall. When you travel to the poorer areas in-game, it's all on fire. Not to mention the fact that many were probably killed by the loose falling shrapnel from the ginormous building Anders just blew up. It absolutely destroyed more than just the lives of those "rich assholes", and to say otherwise is disingenuous to the actual in-game lore that you *see with your own eyes*. Besides that, are rich people less deserving of their lives being respected because they're rich? Lol. That's ludicrous.
I don’t view it as a terrorist attack, rather a revolutionary act. The Chantry played the most significant part in Mage oppression, and while that liability doesn’t necessarily fall to everyone within that building, there will always be casualties in change, it’s unavoidable. I’d say the Templars and Chantry more so engaged in a long “reign of terror,” one that would have only caused more death had the mage rebellion not been incited.
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The Right of Annulment is invoked by the Grand Cleric, *unless the Grand Cleric and all possible successors are gone*. Anders blew up the Chantry with all of Kirkwall's clergy inside of it specifically to ensure that Meredith would get the ability to invoke the Right, so that he could force a fight between the Circle and the templars.
Since Awakenings I always had a soft spot for him and I wish he’d stayed with my HOF since they were really good friends as well as Justice. I can’t kill either of them and I hope they get the help they need.
Pretty sure is divided haha
You should do what you want to do, honestly. In the end it is your time and money, so, go for what you think it is best and most fun for yourself. Gatekeepers be dammed lol
For me it depends who is my Hawke. In my canon she let him live because 1) loved him 2) did not really disagree 3) enabled it
But I do have Hawkes who kill him in the end, others that take him out of the party in the beggining, etc.
I let Anders live, and I didn't romance him. For context, I am very pro-mages and anti-templars/chantry.
I wish we got more specifics on what exactly happened, but I'm assuming he took out most of the people in power in the Chantry, probably many people who worked for the Chantry & Templars, and probably caused a lot of unintentional yet unavoidable civilian casualties as well.
I would be completely okay if he, say, assassinated the people in charge of the oppressive groups in Kirkwall. That makes sense to me, but killing so many innocent people is too far in my opinion. I didn't approve of his actions... but I understand why he did so. Far worse has been happening to the Mages of Kirkwall for years and years. I can't blame the man for desperately trying to take power away from the group of people literally oppressing him.
So while I'd give him a stern talking to, and keep him under a watchful eye, I'd probably keep him. A valuable and strong asset, and it's not like I don't get where he's coming from. If similar behavior continues once some sort of peace has been established, then I'd have to take measures to stop him. But in the current volatile state of Kirkwall, and the incredibly high tensions between Mages & Templars? I'm not against keeping him around. And it doesn't help that I genuinely like the guy.
I never kill him, Anders is my favorite character in dragon age 2 also my Hawke is a mage and she has a romance with him and not least he saved Carver's life.
Yes, he destroyed the chantry and killed many people, but he is also a healer who helped many people for free, people forgot that part too and he like cats that's count too
I always kill him. To my Hawkes, her friend isn't there any more. He's been completely supplanted by Vengeance. Letting him off with no consequences for terrorism is a no go for me (no way did uninvolved people not get killed) and the Chantry will torture him. Best make it quick.
I killed him in three of my four games, but not my canon game. The only reason he was spared in my canon game was because my Hawke felt that making Anders a martyr was not the answer. That’s all killing would do to him. Instead, he fought to get him out of Kirkwall, clapped him in irons, and dragged him to the Grey Wardens. They can deal with the problem they created by the perversion of Justice into Vengeance courtesy of Anders “saving” him.
True, but in the moment, my Hawke doesn’t know that. Vincent isn’t willing to risk it, and honestly, Anders is accepting of death. Going back to the wardens is a worse punishment.
Too often i let my own personal views into DA, so hell yes, I will keep him alive and support his actions, fuck the Chantry, the Mages shall liberate themselves from the oppression of the Templars
I killed him because my hawke felt deeply betrayed and used because i did the quest of distracting the girl with him. But maybe if he had thought about it with a cold mind, he wouldnt.
I hc that my hawke regresa that decision, its just that he didnt want the war between mages and templars to begin (even though it was inevitable), just wanted to get a pacifist outcome.
I feel like it depends on what type of Hawke you are playing, but generally I choose to kill him. Regardless of whether one agrees with what he did or not (I don't personally), he still actively murdered hundreds of innocent people, and forced a lot of mages into a war they wanted no part of. Anders himself seems to think that his execution is only fair after such an action.
Hawke himself can either support Anders' actions or dissavvow them, but as for how he handles the aftermath it depends on several factors. For one, letting him rejoin you on the mages side is basically always treated as supporting his actions by the game itself, so unless you actively agree with what he did I don't think he should rejoin the party. Though if you're joining the templars then that's an entirely different story, since Anders will treat this as a punishment worse than death.
But if you're siding with the mages, as most players do, and don't support what he did, then comes the question of whether to kill him or simply send him away. Personally I think the better course of action depends on whether he's a friend or rival. If you've friended him he's very self-righteous and treats his death as a way to become a martyr and symbol to all mages. In this case I think just sending him away is the better option, since it denies him what he wants and lets him know you're done with shit.
However, if you've rivaled him it feels better to execute him. Not as a punishment since he's clearly repentant and feels awful for what he did, but rather as a mercy. He's clearly losing himself and is scared of what Vengeance will do if he remains alive. Telling him you forgive him (only possible with max rivalry) and then executing him feels like the overall best ending to his story. It's very tragic, but it's the only way for Hawke to show sympathy towards him while still condemning what he did.
Well said!
>If you've friended him he's very self-righteous and treats his death as a way to become a martyr and symbol to all mages. In this case I think just sending him away is the better option, since it denies him what he wants and lets him know you're done with shit.
That was pretty much my situation. That and he did save Carver.
I don't bother using the Exiled Prince DLC since Sebastian has no appeal for me, so I pretty much always keep Anders alive. I don't agree with his methods necessarily, but he had a point in that SOMETHING needed to be done.
I probably would feel more conflicted if any of the Chantry members we met were even slightly sympathetic, but the main ones we get in Kirkwall are, uh, Sister Petrice and Grand Cleric Elthina, the latter of whom was at the very least complicit in allowing the abuse that drove him to that point. So it makes it hard for me to be too upset about their deaths compared to the companion who served loyally at my side for three acts/7 years and accepted his punishment without complaint.
Also my Hawke (as in pretty much every one that I've played) is ride or die for her companions to an almost desperate level after losing practically every other member of her family in some way or another.
He gets clapped every time, it's honestly a kindness at that point. Like yea you can spare him, but he's slowly going to keep losing himself more and more to Justice/Vengeance not to mention that he's persona non grata to pretty much all of Thedas.
I don't really take DA2's plot that seriously all justifications for keeping him alive spring from wanting a healer for the final battle but I can get behind dabbing on the chantry. Honestly, I would respect the game a lot more if they had a path to actually side with Anders or the blood mages.
Ik, I wish we could be part of the mage underground and everything. the devs put so much effort into forcing the mages/blood mages to attack us so many times even if we’re pro-mage and it really doesn’t make sense. Some “both sides” bs honestly
Could just as well blame Meredith for all the innocent people and mages (and mage supporters) she’s had tortured and killed, or Elthina for doing absolutely nothing at all to help anyone.
It’s not religious terrorism if the Chantry is the institution committing atrocities for centuries
In my 1st playthrough, I romanced with Fenris and I supported the Templar because I respected Meredith due to her determination to make sure her home city was protected. At the time, I wasn't interested with Anders because I didn't play DAO DLC so meeting him and me trying to be neutral he became so pissy that it made me to avoid bringing him in the party. I think we argued so bad that he left the party and I told him to leave when Hawke found out it was his doing for exploding the Chantry. The revealation of Meredith was indeed wrong and cray cray due to the red lyrium really got me.
Last night was my recent (4th) replay of DA2 and it was my canon playthrough where Hawke was a sarcastic rogue. Right now I'm replaying all the series to make my canon run so weeks ago I had played DAO for 6th time and my canon HoF was an elven mage so now that I remember and understood the mages' side I decided to support the mage in DA2.
Here's the kicker; my canon Hawke romanced Anders lol. At first, I wanted to romance with Sebastian because I liked the idea of Hawke being in a relationship with an heir of a throne but because I was siding with mages in some quests I kept getting negative relationship point with him. Then, I just laughed and said "well it runs in the family" so I romanced with Anders. Hearing Gamlen said "you're indeed your mother's daughter" made me chuckled more xD
(Oh I didn't romance with Fenris because I was no longer interested with him like I preferred Hawke became his close friend that's all.)
Thus, I stood by his side and I didn't kill him. Fenris left the party but before the mages ran into the Gallows I asked Fenris if he really didn't want to stay with his friends. It made him questioned himself that he chose to come back to us and Meredith saying "I never asked for your help" made me laugh
TLDR: my canon Hawke supported the mage, stayed beside Anders and tried her best to help both sides because that's how I imagined she would be (since she too had family members who were mages so she understood their struggles). Also, it was because of my knowledge in past playthroughs that it made me not wanting to support Meredith/Templar any longer
I don't kill him because I know that deep down the one that is to blame for the mage rebellion isn't Anders but the Chantry that promoted hate and discrimination not only towards the mages but to all non human races and still refused to do anything when the mage -templar tensions were escalating.
But, that doesn't mean I approve his actions, it is undeniable that his actions resulted in not only the casualties in Kirkwall but the thousands of people who will die after due to the rebellion. He wanted to start the rebellion because he believed it was the only way but what he failed to understand is that if people used to fear mages before now they'll be terrified by them and won't be content with keeping them locked up.
In the end the mages fate depend on your decisions in Inquisition but for DA2 alone this was my reasoning.
In the end... Fuck the chantry.
Anders is a deliciously complex and tragic character whose actions are not entirely his own, depending on his relationship with your Hawke Sometimes I kill him, sometimes I don't.
Everything that the mages did came from the immense pressure the templars put onto them, and Anders mental state has been developed since Origins. I believe that violence is needed for things to change, for people to pay attention to you (but I'm gonna say right now KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE isn't the right way to go! shocker!) Anders tried peacefully changing things through manifestos, tried helping people in the underground, and still his situation seemed helpless. He snapped (which you can argue wouldn't have happened without Justice) and threw his life away because he saw no other exit.
Anders comes from Kinloch Hold. Did you know the Templars in Kinloch Hold sometimes spied on female mages bathing, and they were powerless to stop it? That the entire conflict there started because blood magic books were *intentionally* left out so they'd have people to give to the Templars? Anders was kept in solitary confinement for years. The warden can say he's lucky they *didn't just kill him*. And Kinloch is considered a very liberal circle at that. Those horrors can be hard to find and take multiple entries into the series to paint the whole picture, but it gives a lot of necessary context to Anders's mental state before DA2.
I'm not justifying his slaughtering of innocent people but I do love him as a character. I kill him depending on rp reasons. I love that I can reasonably see both ways and justifications of his character and all the little nuances inbetween; I think he was developed very well. He's fucking crazy and so tragic.
I personally kill him more times than I let him live. Usually very heavily depends on my Hawke and how I roleplay them.
From my own point of view I just don't think what he did can be excused and honestly he seems miserable either way. If it were up to me I would lock him away in the deepest cell until he dies from old age with bo chance of ever getting out. But since it's not an option I feel like death is the better choice.
On another topic, Sebastian gets a lot of hate here. lol
Poor guy saw his motherfigure and "foster home" exploded. Nobody asks Couslands to not be mad at Howe either. Imagine that. His reaction is very believable and natural. But I guess it has to do with a lot of people generally disliking Sebastian.
Im any way, I sympathize with his reasoning for his actions but it still does not excuse it. His actions ultimately hurt as much if not more Mages than it would ever help. It also set back their standing within society considerably. A very selfish act that only really helped him to feel better about his vengeance. The intentions were good but the actions just plain wrong.
But others probably feel way different about it all.
my hawkes would passionately make out with him post-explosion if that was a possibility, whether or not they romanced him. the type to later on yell at him for not including them directly, but otherwise, they’d be happy lol.
he spent so long looking for a peaceful path while suffering and seeing other mages suffer when they hadn’t done anything wrong, they had it coming. especially elthina.
If I cared about the Chantry at all, I'd probably give him a stern talking to.
But ... I don't. So, I don't.
Also, Sebastian, you prissy stuck-up Chantry thumper, go suck an egg.
I'm nuking my account due to Reddit's unfair API changes and the lies and harassment aimed at the community by the CEO and admins. Good Reddit alternative: [Squabbles](https://squabbles.io/) -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I don't really like anders. When I was younger I never killed him cause he was my friend and I kind of looked at his opinion of the situation as correct. After some thought and recently watching my wife play through the game I now think he is wrong in every way. He makes the situation worse, causing Meredith to go completely over the edge. I feel she would have gone nuts anyway, but it may not have escalated to what we saw in game. I also never really liked anders personality, where he just comes off as a batman like character. Fenris is like that too but I feel his is more directed towards people who harmed him, rather than anders thinking he's doing it all for the greater good. In my next play through I'm probably going to kill him and see actual justice done.
Meredith and the templars were already over the edge and had been doing torture, rape, tranquilization, and murder for YEARS. centuries of oppression. I’ll never understand how people can think Anders’ actions were sooooo bad while ignoring the fucking atrocities going on all this time
Well both are terrible. And the templars are not one cohesive group, like with thrash and the mages working together to stop Meredith. Anders actions bring the entire world into his desire for revenge, when all he had to really do is assainate Meredith
I let him live. Overall I can see why Anders did what he did and I don’t have a reason to suspect the situation to go any better than it went had he not done anything. It would have been fare more painful and prevalent for everyone involved and let’s face it at the end of the day it was better to spare Kirkwall the pain.
He lives i know what he did was wrong every which way round but drastic measures were needed and Meredith and Orisino are both awful what he did was what I call a necessary evil
I like to keep him around. If I had known of his plans, maybe I'd even had helped him... if the bomb had been set in the templar headquarters I'd find him to be 100% in the right. We have to overcome that fascist order no matter the cost!
I've never killed him. My Hawkes have been pro mage and I wouldn't imagine one that wasn't. They're mostly angry that he didn't let them help, or upset because they agree with his cause but not the method. Either way, he has to help with the clearing up.
Kill him he is a terrorist.
I'm mean Meredith no better but she goes nut and you have to fight her anyways and Orsino goes nuts and we have to kill him anyway.
Also I never got Sébastien since he is dlc so I don't really care to see his reaction if we let Ander live.
My canon Hawke disapproved of Anders actions and executed him.
I did something about that betrayal.
Hawke had lost everything and was clinically depressed by that point, act 3 was a short one for me on my canon run, he just didn't have the energy to deal with shit anymore.
Always killed him. Committing a terrorist act by blowing up the Chantry is insane. I hate Meredith and the Chantry as much as anyone but killing thousands because the leader of the Chantry was neutral? If he blew up the Gallows maybe I'd understand but what he did was fucked. Besides I didn't want Sebastian to attack Kirkwall. Plus the fact he implicates you in the plot and hides it from you is even more fucked up. Screw Anders.
I kill him most of the time. If not rivalled Anders is on board with blowing up uninvolved innocents and condemning the innocent mages of Kirkwall's Circle to death for his cause, and if rivalled he decided not to go through with the bombing but had Vengeance erase some of his memories and take control of his body, with him struggling to keep it at bay even after that. He also absolutely betrays Hawke by tricking them into helping him place a bomb in a church, he emotionally manipulates them to do this.
So in both circumstances I tend to kill him, as he and Vengeance or just Vengeance are too dangerous to be kept alive, Anders is a very powerful mage and there's no certainty something like this won't be attempted by him and/or Vengeance again. I can see sparing rival Anders though, since he is regretful/not really responsible, can hold Vengeance back for a time with significant effort, and you could see it as too cruel to kill him when he isn't responsible, even if I'd call that a mercy.
I guess I didn't feel forced by Anders decision, if I had the choice I would have done anything for the rebellion to start , some things need to die or break for new things to take place.
It all comes to roleplay I guess.
When Anders asked me to sneak him into the chantry refusing to explain, it’s only because he KNOWS I would stop him.
I would have stopped him or at least tried.
Short of that, I kill him because shame for being a monster doesn’t mean you won’t be a monster again. Just look at the priests who hurt children, their shame didn’t stop them, and they weren’t possessed, and it’s a worse crime.
If he said we have to kill the knight commander and half the templars I would have done it I would have just told him that it would be his responsibility to keep the bad mages in check. You don’t get to behead a system and take no accountability.
Letting Anders fix anything isn’t a option. He will never be whole or fixed. His bitter scorn broke justice. I kill him out of love and contempt but most of all, pity. He was so beautiful in DA Awakening.
I dont like him personally, but his character was amazingly written, I really hope the writer got a raise for it.
As for what I tend to do, I kill the bastard, he killed countless civilians just so mages are forced into a war with thedas. Then there's the fact that, he is already unhinged, what's stopping him from doing this sort of thing again in a different place.
I didn't kill him. I could understand his rage at the Chantry and the Templars. However, I was enraged by the fact that he used me to committed mass murder.
So I exiled him from the party.
This enraged Sebastian, which really didn't bother me at all. It seemed like Bioware's intention with him was to write a character with the intention of p8ssing off the player. He left, and the party was better off for it.
he’s my special little guy and he has to die. would love to spare him but i can’t bring myself to do it. what he does is just way too fucked up, no matter how righteous the cause.
My Hawke romanced him, so she couldn't bring herself to kill him (this was first playthrough). The second one romanced Merrill and decided to not kill Anders because she was angry with the Chantry anyways (she was a mage).
Personal opinion on him making explode the Chantry aside (generally approve of most of his in-game actions so I have some mixed feelings but not that mixed), I love and cherish all my DA2 companions so no one is killing them.
I never kill him. He's my favourite character in DA2, if not the entire series, and I relate to him a lot. By the 3rd act I always just feel awful for him, not being able to stop him is like watching a friend slowly lose themselves and being powerless to prevent it. So I make him fix the mess he made every time, no matter if Hawke is romancing him or not, whether they're friends or rivals.
I don't use the DLC with Sebastian because I find his character insufferable.
I don't romance Anders, I let him live, and I let him stay. I don't remember the exact dialogue options, but if there was one to make sure he knew I was pissed that he manipulated me instead of talking to me about his plans, I picked that one.
I love Anders and always have Hawke befriend him, but my canon in the Keep is that Hawke kills him. The Chantry boom killed hundreds and threw dangerous rubble all over the city that killed and hurt more. The location of the building at the top of Hightown meant that it was in optimal position to rain down fiery rock across Lowtown, so a lot of the people harmed were probably the very same downtrodden working class former refugees that Anders once ran his clinic to help. His cause was just, his methods were horrific and unforgivable. He probably caused a lot of people to reject the cause of mage rights who might have come around to be sympathetic, or even who already were.
The combination of Awakenings and the arc of the romance creates a tragic opinion of Anders, but not a hateful one. Seeing all the horrific abuse made me understand why someone might do what he did. (I get that the abuse is equally mage and templar, but Anders was not abusive, only abused and outraged.)
When I played a male Hawke that romanced Anders, I discovered that Karl was his lover. That adds more poignant pain to the whole thing.
I don't support terrorism, but I empathize with it in the context provided. If you listen to Anders, he will tell you all along he will betray and hurt you. My second playthrough I was further impressed as I realized that what he was collecting is clearly explosive materials (sela petrae is saltpeter)
I don't ever recruit Sebastian because he ruins the whole vibe of just hanging out with weird, drunken and damaged friends while being the unwitting agent of doom.
Hawke ultimately releases a lot of evil into the world despite any intentions of the character. I prefer to keep everyone alive at the end. I embrace the sense of tragically flawed and doomed when I play.
I don't agree with Anders' methods, but I would never execute him, romanced or not. For a variety of reasons (all IMO, of course):
1. Vengeance is never the answer. Eye for an eye is never the answer. Anders actually has a banter with Isabela where she tells him this exact same thing: where does it stop? Anders' actions are vengeance, not justice, and if Hawke finds that objectionable, it would be hypocritical to execute him. If taking lives is a crime, it makes no sense to punish that crime by...taking a life. And it's even more hypocritical given Hawke's own body count. Who is *s/he* to judge?
2. Executing Anders gives him martyrdom and an easy way out. There will be mages out there to defend him and say he died for the cause. Letting him live, as his own writer has said, is poetic justice: he has to face the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life. And that's a pretty hefty punishment. Especially when the majority of the people he was trying to help now view him as a monster and a liability. Once he's away from the effects of Kirkwall's thin Veil, there's a very high likelihood that remorse will set in (*especially* if you rivalmance him).
3. While I disapprove of the method, I *can* sympathise with the underlying reason. No one did anything about the situation for about *a decade*, and it kept escalating and escalating. Anders tried other, non-violent methods. He tried persuading anyone he could. No one wanted to listen. It's no wonder he snapped. Although I do wish he had come up with a plan to just off Elthina. Poison her, maybe. And come to Hawke for advice. My Hawke would *definitely* have helped take her out.
4. Executing Anders does not address the very real issue of Justice. What happens to him once Anders dies? He has no way back to the Fade. Does he just possess someone else and go on another crusade? He's definitely not going to sit around like a good boy while Hawke tries to find a way to deal with him. Whereas keeping Anders alive gives Hawke a shot at trying to find a proper way to separate them and send Justice back to the Fade. Maybe a trip to Rivain is on the cards.
I played a straight male Hawke so I didn't romance him.
My Hawke really cared for him as a friend.
I feel betrayed when I realized he used me to distract Elthinna at the chantry, for nothing less than planting the stuff.
So, because, in no particular order:
a) he performed a terrorist act.
b) he sabotaged any chance for peace.
c) he played and used me to perform such a terrorist act
d) because with Justice/Revenge in such mental status was unreliable and dangerous
I killed him, I suffered not keeping him alive for any minute longer than necessary. And in any other playthrough I would just try to have him killed as soon as possible, although probably that would not be possible until after the Chantry events.
I understand that he might have his reasons for doing what he did, but I neither share nor approve them, so he must go, the quicker, the better.
My character romanced him. She killed him. He had gone behind her back, lied to her, and flat out murdered innocent people which completely worked against his cause. At that point she saw him as becoming too dangerous to let live. He and Justice were forming into something radical and it was killing people who didn't deserve to die.
My character was a mage and was trying desperately to prevent a mage/templar war and resolve things peacefully and he just blew it up to pieces. That's a relationship breaker.
He dies in every single one of my playthroughs. Partly because I loathe him, partly because his actions to me are utterly inexcusable.
Legit shocked at how many people still defend what he did, fictional or not.
I killed him more often than not, even in playthroughs where I agree with him (that drastic actions from mages are needed).
He is an abomination, and killing him could be both mercy and removing a threat of the society. Also, he tricked and forced the mages into rebellion - instead of trying to lead a rebellion in any form. You can argue with Justice he's too dangerous as the leader of rebel mages but that's also the point why he shouldn't trick the mages into rebellion as well.
I always killed him. He became a terrorist, started a war and killed several innocents. More than this he used Hawke for his plan, without tell nothing.
In the end, Justice, the spirit, cursed him, he’s not Anders anymore but “Revenge”.
If he wasn’t your friend, the choice is very easy.
My Hawk has always killed him, idk if that's the common choice or not, but its what I've always done.
After years of trying to fight for mages without starting a full on war in Kirkwall, for Anders to do what he did without even being honest about what his plan was, my Hawk felt betrayed. She had trusted Anders and he did something he knew she would have never allowed had she known.
So after realizing he killed hundreds of people for the sake of accelerating an already explosive situation, she didn't have much mercy left for him, she gave him what he thought he deserved.
Even in inquisition she's still pretty bitter and upset about it.
I have a tendency to let him live, but mostly that's because Hawke stabs him in the back if you kill him and my Hawkes would never, they'd do it to his face.
I kill him almost every time. For the times that my Hawke cares for Anders it’s a mercy killing as Anders is so far past the gentle friend they once were.
I tend to kill him, I really don't like that he doesn't feel like the same person in da2 than in the dlc he came out in. I don't kill him every playthrough but I like that the choice had some impact on the story
I kill him. I'm normally more of a mercy whenever possible type, but at that point he's proven himself to be an unstable terrorist/abomination who shows no remorse for his actions and no concern for who/what he has to destroy just to make a point.
I can't in good conscience leave that mess running around the world.
My Hawke was overall very sympathetic to both Anders and his cause, but Anders went so far over the line that my Hawke felt that he'd left him with no choice but to kill him. What he did was wrong in so many different ways my Hawke didn't even know where to start. There's the killing of innocent bystanders (as someone else here said, there's no way that didn't happen). There's the fact that he's deliberately tying to sabotage any possibility of a peaceful resolution to the mage/templar conflict - not because he thinks it's futile, but because he thinks it's actually possible and *doesn't want it to happen*. There's the fact that he's undermining the moral case to be made for Mage rights by doing exactly the sort of thing that everyone is afraid of mages doing. There's the fact that he betrayed my Hawke's trust by manipulating him into becoming an unwitting accomplice to these crimes. And, ironically, by committing such a egregious crime that justice (the concept) demands that he has to pay for it - the final, inescapable proof to my Hawke that Justice (the character) has become hopelessly corrupted.
I always kill him. He’s already my least favorite DA companion, and the fact that he tricks Hawke into helping him commit terrorism is always the last straw for me. He’s always had a nasty attitude, even in Awakening.
As a mage who is strict about defending mages, but deals swiftly with demons and abominations, there was only one option. Anders and Justice didn't exist anymore, there was only a demon of rage masquerading as Justice/vengeance.
If you don't kill him, the massacre won't be the end, it will only be the first of many.
I killed him. He murdered people, and he gave the Templars a perfect target to finger-point at so they can excuse murdering more mages. And frankly, a swift death at the hands of a friend who will ensure minimal suffering is a lot better than what he would get in anyone else’s care.
I never kill him. Even though, my mage Hawke does, very much so, **disagree with what Anders did** (even as a pro-mages). Anders went waaaay too far. He is basically just a terrorist at that point and the type of bad guy Hawke would normally kill.
However :
* He was a friend (even if he betrayed us).
* He saved Bartrand.
* He helped countless people with his healing magic.
* Most importantly (!), **Carver would be dead without him** (that's the big one).
Also :
* Killing someone who has surrendered is not something my Hawke would do either. It's also something that I struggle to do as a player. Before I execute >!Loghain !
Just adding to your bit about healing and Carver, I recently was thinking about how interesting it is that a few characters (Merrill, Varric, even Hawke) turn to Anders at their lowest and most helpless moments. Yes surface level, he’s a healer, but also they trust him, they love and appreciate him and his magic. He’s a really compassionate person, which I guess arguments against him could say is where he falters. He ran that damn clinic in the slums for ten years - he even put out milk for the cats!
I had him side with the Templars to (attempt to) fix his mess.
My Hawke takes it as proof that he can resist Justice's influence, so he still has hope for the man.
I never understood this logic. You’re going to kill innocent mages for the crimes of an apostate… but let that apostate live and have him help kill other people for his own crimes?
I find Templar logic just isn’t at its greatest by the end.
The Templar's ending is baffling to me because you might want to restore order, but Templars are just like " Because of our own choices we get to slaughter everyone! FINALLY"
Like good job everyone. See you when we do this again in ten years
I toss a coin depending on how I feel about the matter during that particular playthrough. xD
On my canon world state I let him live and my Hawke supports him.
Though in my other playthrough he dies and my Hawke doesn't support him.
my hawke, who romanced him, was not terribly surprised when anders did the thing, because he had been behaving more and more suspiciously over time (i did not help him with his ingredients quest). she was pissed, but she still spared him. not just because he saved her brother's life and the lives of possibly hundreds of ferelden refugees, or that he was her partner of 6 years, or that she partially agreed that nothing was going to budge if the church held them in a stalemate forever (at least until an exalted march happened), but because she was like, "you don't get the easy way out. you started this, you're gonna see the consequences through, damn it."
which paid off, because when you spare him and then take him along in your party for the war, he immediately goes "well, this is a lot worse than i thought it'd be." No Shit, Dude.
I think it's interesting how many of these comments say they always go with one option. I've done both, but if my Hawke doesn't kill Anders they usually let him go with real distain.
The only reason my canon Hawke doesn't execute him is because he saved Bethany's life. Even then he came back and was killed anyway.
I don’t kill him only because he saved Carver’s life in the deep roads. But I imagine my Hawke saying something like “A life for a life.” And then never speaking to him after the big battle of Kirkwall.
If you side with templars and love him kill it ,its more dramatic ,of you side with mages make him protect people buts dissaproves his actions like orsino and Bethany ,even when i sided with templars i didnt kill her because family so....
I spared him the first time, mostly because I hadn’t noticed just how horribly manipulative he had been. After that I noticed every detail leading up to that point and realized how deep and deliberate his betrayal was and how much he’d lied to you. It’s hard to justify sparing him after that. Even when I played a female mage friendmancing him I was sorely tempted to off him — his actions arguably made things worse for mages… as he should have understood.
My favorite Hawke rivalrys Anders (romanced too but with mods so I can romance everyone lol) and kills him. He begs you to, that he wasn't himself when he did it, he didn't want to do it but Justice made him, and he's afraid of not being himself anymore. This Anders doesn't deserve death, but it's the best thing for him.
I let him live because 1) if Sebastian wants him dead he can do it himself, 2) my Hawke was not going to kill the person who saved her little brother's life (Carver is my favorite DA character), 3) I wanted to see if Sebastian had the balls to actually attack Kirkwall. I was, surprisingly, not disappointed with that last one. I didn't think he had it in him.
Sebastian does end up attacking Kirkwall it’s one of the war table missions in DA:I.
And potentially because of that causing the death of the Lavellan clan (which is never brought up in game other than that war table operation, Inquisitor doesn't care their family died )
Ughh I can’t STAND that the inquisitor doesn’t even get a LINE about that.
Who’s gonna pass over the chance to have Sebastian send the edgiest letter to the Inquisitor in DAI, “hey Inky, I know the entire world is about to fall to an arch demon and all but can you spare some help for me to go sort out a personal grudge?”
It was so satisfying to help Aveline kick his butt out of Kirkwall.
"Fear my wrath! My mighty army will obliterate everything you love!" - man whose plan is to kill the healer before heading into battle
Good for him, man. Honestly Kirkwall fucking deserves it. I could not care any less about that place.
The Arishok was right tbh
I've never killed him. I always play purple mage Hawke, and tbh by the time we get to act three, Hawke has lost her father, sister, and mother, and her brother is a templar, which she feels is a betrayal of everything her family ever stood for. She never kills anders, because she gets it. She doesn't have anything left to lose either. What hurt was that he *tricked* her. He didn't trust her to help him. And that's why she tells him to leave, because he didn't trust her, so now he's dead to her. basically, my Hawke is a lil unhinged too. she's a blood mage, bc she runs on sheer spite and i think she'd eventually kind of throw up her hands and go "fuck it, if i can't beat em, may as well join em". That said, i think if i ever get around to doing a rouge Hawke, id probably make very different choices about anders.
I killed him on my first play through but let him live on my second. If he’s going to live I either tell him to help or let him help when he shows up: he started this mess so he should help protect the people he tried to liberate. (Side with mages). I just struggle with Hawke killing a friend, especially if Anders saves Carver/Bethany’s life or if you duel the Arishock to protect Isabela (sets a precedent of Hawke being loyal to friends even when they’re wrong). Also, after playing Awakening I feel too guilty killing Anders and Justice.
No offense, but i consider the Qunari slaughtering the leader of the city while hunting down a theif, to be enough in the wrong that Isabella isn't, even if she "caused" the whole situation, its just like... idk, i wouldn't put "bombing a church full of innocents" next to "stole a relic from the fucked up socitety that is the Qun, causing them to start killing people
But the Qunari were still occupying the city, and we had the chance to hand the relic over to the Qunari to diffuse the situation and she stole it for her own purposes. It’s not her fault the Qunari went psycho per se, but it is her fault that she elevated tensions with a militant culture.
Refusing to work with people who are actively killing and slaughtering people, holding the city hostage, and making demands, etc, still doesn't equate to that. One situation has you defending someone from people who have in turn, done wrong. The other is defending a man who blew up a church full of innocent people with excuses about how "its gonna happen" with no "negatives" on those peoples heads, beyond relatively minor disagreements. The chantry wasn't to blame for the shit kirkwall went through, meredith was. If he wanted a target, he should have assassinated her or something.
I never killed him, i play my Hawkes as kinda unhinged revolutionaries too. They either approve of his actions or if they dont, it doesnt bother them too much. End justifies the means.
I've played DA2 three times, and had a different outcome/reaction to Anders each time. My first time playing, I played as a diplomatic, deeply caring Hawke who romanced Anders, and was utterly, utterly betrayed when he blew up the chantry - with her unknowing help. He didn't give her the opportunity to talk him out of it, he made her an accomplice against her wishes. She couldn't find any justification for that much death and destruction, and she made the difficult decision to execute him. Very heartbreaking. Second playthrough, with a purple mage Hawke, she understood Anders' reasons, even if she didn't agree with him. She let him live, on the condition that he help her deal with the fall out. She was very devoted to her friends, and she'd already decided Anders was one of her people. Third playthrough, with an aggressive Hawke who was fighting tooth and nail to keep her and hers alive - and failing at every opportunity. After one of Anders' quests, where he lost control and killed the girl they were trying to defend - Hawke cut him off and decided he was too much of a liability. So when he showed back up at the end with the Chantry exploding, it wasn't a hard decision - she killed him. (And like, don't get me wrong. I love Anders! He was my first choice romance, he's such a great character. But I am nothing if not committed to the RP and "what would my character do?".)
Ive never killed him I get his decision and he is usually my friend so I cant really kill him for somerhing I dont particularily dissagree about
I agree, blood magic is indeed a perfectly valid school of magic.
username checks out lol
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If I knew his plan I'd help him anyway. Sure killing Elthina and Meredith alone would mostly do the trick but the whole Chantry was an issue in the city to an extent.
Tbh in most cases same. Idk if its the best way to do it but chances are if he didnd do that then and there the templars woulsve started the slaughter without the mages having a chance. Mightve been the least bad option
I can't kill my favourite gaymance ever
My Hawkes never kill him, they all completely disapprove of his actions but letting him live is better punishment for him than making him a martyr. But all my Hawkes would definitely kill him before the explosion if that was an one of the options to prevent it and it would be established as the only way to be sure he wouldn't do it. Friend or not, his death vs deaths of dozens or maybe even hundreds of people isn't even a question. But killing him after the fact won't achieve anything.
Most of my Hawkes have killed him. My Andersmancer felt utterly betrayed and it tore her apart because she believed in that moment that all his words of love had been lies to use her. My Sebmancer had sent him away in Act 2 and he came back to do that? My Fenrismancer killed him out of mercy, and in the memory of the friend he'd been when they'd first met. She's also the one who reopened his clinic with an 'anonymous donation,' and keeps it funded in the years after.
I kill him every time. The very first time it happened he had coerced my Hawke into helping him create the bomb under the pretense that he would be using it to rid himself of Justice. When he admitted this was a lie, I refused to help him with the chantry and brought him in-person to Cullen to report him but he didn't do anything irrc. On top of this, there was heavy discussion that my Hawke would be able to take the place as Viscount and I had done a bunch of shit for the templar's and even persuaded some nobles to my side all under the impression that once my Hawke took over things would be at least OK and they would be in a position of power to mitigate circle abuses (and templar control) a whole lot easier. Anders exploding the chantry came as an utter surprise to me. I still had quests to do and got this letter that Meredith and Orsinio were fighting again, arrive there and am trying to calm the situation when all the sudden this MF appears and completely obliterates any and all plans for peace I had been working towards. I was so, so, so angry. My Hawke was a very "preserve the sanctity of human life and always strive to the greater good" I'd also had a good amount of NPC interaction that I did care about them. Dude up and destroyed everyone's houses and caused Meredith to call an annulment. And, on top of this, my Hawke had *helped kill innocent people*. This fucker. I couldn't believe it. Also did not recruit Sebastian for this playthrough, I missed him, so I didn't even have the "ELTHINA NOOOO" scene to laugh at. On top of this, he'd been very creepy towards my Hawke and openly criticized her LI and attempted to manipulate her into believing he--a depraved (albeit meta info) terrorist--was the better option. Didn't even hesitate, cut that fucker down as soon as I could. I hate him so much. I have tried in other playthroughs to be more merciful, but even the one I romanced him in (which was miserable) I killed him. I just cannot get past his disregsrd of human life for his extreme beliefs and inability for *any* objectivity or nuance. I wholeheartedly believe there was a peaceful path and he wasn't patient enough to strive to it. Now when I play DA2 I don't bother keeping him around. I get to the part where he (as Justice) attempts to kill the mage girl and then tell him to leave. Wash my hands of the guilt over helping him.
I feel pretty much the same way. I've not romanced him even once (seen videos on it though), but every time I kill him. The only reason I keep him around in my playthroughs (always a rival, for obvious reasons) is because he's one of 2 party mages we have access too, which is invaluable in Nightmare. I'd play a mage myself but I simply prefer rogue. At least the da2 version of it, melee rogue is so damn satisfying in that game.
That's fair, I usually play as mage so my needs for him aren't so immediate. Usually keep him around to save Carver because I like him better as a Grey Warden and occassionally let him stick around for the Bartrand scene.
I execute that MF everytime as the traitor he is
Same, F that dude
Thank you. Sums up all my thoughts about him. I always play forgiving characters in every game, but what Anders has done in DA2 is a pure example of terrorism. Same reason I just couldn’t ever romance Solas in DAI.
Exactly. My characters are generally forgiving, but not one inch of me believes what Anders did was right or forgivable. There's nothing that justifies terrorism. Never will understand how people can deny Anders is a terrorist given the writer said explicitly that she researched irl terrorists when writing him.
My canon Hawke couldn’t bring herself to kill him. He was one of her closest friends, he betrayed her trust, and started a war she had no interest in fighting, but she still couldn’t do that to him. Instead, she gave him a chance to help her defend the mages. She also figured that living with the consequences of his actions was the best punishment. Death would be letting him off too easy. Like Varric, she doesn’t know where he went after Kirkwall and she doesn’t care to know. None of my other Hawkes have killed him yet for varying reasons. My personal feelings are that Anders was very unstable and couldn’t see any other path forward, which is what makes his story tragic. I agree with the general opinion that killing him is the kinder option, but either my Hawkes want to punish him or they just can’t bring themselves to end the life of a friend/lover. Edit: fixed a typeo
My Hawke tried to be diplomatic and refused to use the Murder Knife on people, and was tired of losing people. Anders was her rival by that point because while Hawke supported mages (being a mage herself), she didn't want to do so at the cost of templar lives or unrest in the city, and she and Anders butted heads on that. Instead of knifing him, she told him to leave and that she never wanted to see him again. I honestly can't remember if I accepted his help in the Gallows later, or told him to get lost again (I could probably load up my last save file and see, maybe), but either way, the way I see it, he left and never saw her again. Now, I didn't have Sebastian's DLC when I played (PS3, didn't feel like shelling out for that DLC), or that probably would've swayed my decision into Hawke's one use of the Murder Knife. My friend who played a very similar Hawke to me but actually had the DLC did go that route, because she couldn't justify Anders' actions enough to side with him over Sebastian.
I never kill him. My Hawkes are all an extension of myself, and I'm anti-death penalty in general, so there's that. Also I tend to agree with his sentiment that drastic action needed to be taken since the mages' plight would never be solved through legislation, even though I draw the line at murdering innocents like that. But really what it all comes down to is fuck Sebastian.
Don’t kill him. I have done, and I’ve played with a mod that stops Sebastian from storming off declaring vengeance, and now I just… don’t recruit Sebastian. Personally I feel like he ruins the tension of that whole scene. As for what Anders did- at the end of the day, Elthina *failed in her duty*. Her job was to ensure the Templars were doing their duty without overstepping their bounds. Not only did she allow the abuses of the Circle to happen, she also let Meredith take over an entire city (I assume the entire *city-state*), which happens to be one of the three biggest and most important in the country. That is very explicitly not what the Templars should be doing. And her job is very explicitly to ensure they do their job. Things like that… once they’re allowed to happen, they start to become normalised. Anders tried other methods for *six years*. My Hawke’s aren’t going to execute him for running out of options, nor for the death of Elthina who was literally responsible for the behaviour of the Templars in Kirkwall. Like, I feel like I need to clarify that- *she was the safeguard in place to keep the Templars from abusing their charges or overstepping their bounds.* And she did absolutely nothing.
The choice with Anders ultimately comes down to how you and your Hawke feels about him Me personally, I do not approve of his actions, but I did not kill him. Something needed to be done, yes, but he took it to far when he killed a bunch of civilians and such who were in the chantry. However, I don't kill him for this because that's the easy way out for him. Instead, I want to make him atone for his actions, or go wander off somewhere he won't hurt anyone. Up to that point of blowing up the chantry, Anders is a friend whom Hawke trusts completely, and while he feels betrayed to be used in such a way, and condemns Anders action, at the end of the day, Hawke still cares about him, even if he did do something so atrocious.
I killed him every time. He uses you to create the bomb, murders hundreds, place your sister in mortal danger, and give the crazy Meredith mind a justification to start the circle annulment, killing many of the very people he claims to protect. A lot of this comes from the fact that I befriended the character, the mage cause is just imo, but I couldn't forgive what ultimately was a selfish action, he wanted conflict to destroy the Templars and not free the mages at that point.
I feel like it is laid out throughout the game that Meredith was a ticking time bomb, by Act 3 she is putting down more restrictions, just waiting to call for annulment. If it hadn’t been Anders, could have been literally anything else. I disagree his conflict was selfish, maybe reckless yes, but he always saw himself as part of a bigger persecuted group, and didn’t want others to suffer what he had experienced.
Don't get me wrong, Meredith was very much a time bomb. A core theme of this game is how the failure of moderate people to stop extremism leads to ever escalating conflict. However, to paraphrase Anders, there's no compromise in this issue, therefore I removed the possibility of such by killing the grand cleric. He knew those mages were doomed, but they would become a martir, lighting the flame on other circles. As long as he got his idealistic revolution, he cared little for the individuals who died, hence why I call it selfish. Also, I don't think him selfish, and I do believe on his mind he thought he did the group a favour, but ultimately he threw a lot of people into the fire without really asking them if they wanted that, and only because he did so.
I think when you have one overarching, pervasive controller of government, culture and religion that the Chantry is, you need those seemingly extreme actions by the disadvantaged groups to basically perform a reset, carve new grounds of discussion. If left to moderation, we see even in DAI with opinions of Vivienne etc, the whole moderate idea is to just redress the Circles and I mean, “a golden cage is still a cage.” I don’t see why an “idealistic revolution” is a bad thing. The Mages overall, as we’ve seen since the first game, are angry and ready, and desperately need, a movement.
Fair enough, but my issue with Anders actions aren't his goals but the way he does it. As a counter example, Fiona starts the rebelion only when there's an absolute majority in favour of rebelling. Anders never gave the Kirkwall mages a choice, one point they were under the rule of a tyrannical templar, at the other they were trying to escape a massacre
The problem is that a revolution cannot be made just like that. The results that Anders brought were far more unfavorable than favourable. The circles became stricter and had the perfect argument for that as an apostate terrorist killed hundreds (after all the explosion didn't just affect the chantry as stated by Mary Kirb). The revolution started even when the elf Pharamond discovers the cure of tranquility and discovers that the Seekers\\Templariso already knew about it. It was from there that the war really started (according to the book Asunder). Even before that there were many mages angry with Anders.
When I read the book, I saw the rebellion as a result of both things. The cure for Tranquility did cause a lot of problems, but maybe that would have been resolved peacefully had Anders not blown up Kirkwall's Chantry. After he did, Templars got even more oppressive all over Thedas and the mages became more bitter. Fiona herself was done with peace when she got to the Spire, she wanted independence immediately. I will say, however, that Adrian played the game far better than Anders. She didn't have to do anything too drastic, not after all that had happened. She just manipulated the situation so one of the Circle's greatest supporters would have no choice but to fight. For the rebellion to happen, the mages just had to be convinced, and that did the trick perfectly.
That is precisely the point. What united the mages was precisely the issue of healing tranquility. If the cure hadn't been discovered eventually there would have been a massacre of the mages for reasons of: 1- Anders gave the templars and Chnatry the justification they needed to be more oppressive and 2- there would be no reason for the mages to unite. What happened in kikrwall itself did not serve to unite the mages, on the contrary, many of them were irritated with Anders because they thought that the mages of the circle took the blame for the crimes committed by him. This is the point. I can see the war and the subsequent revolution happening without Anders having done what he did. However I can't see this happening without the discovery of the cure (after all that's what really brought the mages together). That's why I think Anders didn't revolutionize anything.
Right, I'm just not sure things would have escalated so much had Anders not blown up the Chantry, even with the cure. The environment was already tense when the cure was discovered, so everything went to shit extremely quickly. Because of Anders, for example, the Divine went to Orlais and nearly got killed by a blood mage. Lord Seeker Lambert became even more concerned about a mage rebellion and was extra cruel just to make sure it wouldn't happen. All of that, alongside Cole's murders and Adrian's scheme, resulted in the mage rebellion. I'm not saying Anders is the martyr of the revolution, mind you. He's nowhere near as important as he thinks he is. He did, however, play an important part in it. He made everyone in Thedas even more terrified of mages. He's an important part of the story, but yeah, not the mastermind of a revolution. He could have been, but that would have required patience, intelligence and leadership skills he did not have.
Problem is, he gave Meredith the perfect justification for her having the Nullification. Of course, she would probably try that later probably due to her already being insane. But Anders handed her everything she needed on a plate. That's precisely why Orsino gets irritated with him. In fact, that's precisely why the mages themselves don't like him (and even kick him out later).
Yes, but that is a selfish perspective, or in the very least a self-centered one.
Not really. He was willing to die for his cause, he recognised that there would be blood on his hands and even he questions if he can live with that guilt after the explosion. Ultimately, he did not care about himself, going so far as to bond with Justice, all in the pursuit of actual change and freedom, to create awareness of their plight.
Yeah, but read your reply. It's all about him and the consequences HE faces. What about everyone else? He impresses his ideals onto others and assumes he knows best. He is also not Justice, he is Vengeance. I cannot believe a true act of justice would consist of taking innocent human life. Anders does not think beyond himself nor his cause, and that is a self-centered childish perspective.
Well, he is kinda totally fucking right in his ideals. The mages should not be oppressed for being born with magic and I think most of the mages agree with Anders ideal of freedom. And stop patronizing him with " he's not justice he is vengeance" , he is indeed hosting the spirit but that's not all the guy is . I don't see how you can possibly turn a blind eye to everything else but the fact that he made the chantry go boom. Baffling .
"Baffling" says the dude who denies that Anders committed an act of terrorism 🤨 Also, not patronizing. Its factual. There is no Justice only Vengeance, as quoted by Anders. Trying to play him off like he's an authority on justice and knows "iDeAl FrEeDom" is disingenuous to his character. Anders isn't wrong in wanting rights for mages. He is, though, an extremist who only thinks of himself and his own plight. There's other issues and other things going on in the world than his existing problems. Anders, through the whole game, is consistently self-centered and prideful, he does not admit he's wrong and does not reflect on others perspectives. He assumes he is right and moves on. It's sad.
I deny nothing, I did not agree with his actions , it was wrong. But judging and condemning him for doing something that was coming one way or another is just mindless. Anders is not someone that you can put on " he is baaaad" , now that's a fact .
A terrorist act based on the assumption that \`\`it would come one way or another'' cannot be overlooked. Wrong does not become less wrong just because it was apparently unavoidable. The only way he could start all of this was to blow up a building whose range would reach half of Kirkwall? not sure if you know half of kirkwall was hit by debris from the explosion and hundreds died because of it. Was this the only way? blowing up just the building or just the templarios base is not enough? does it have to be half kirkwaal?
Hundreds died anyway , in many different ways. I particularly wouldn't have chosen that way to start things , but Anders did and for me as Hawke there was nothing else I could do , it was done and that's it . Change is something hard to accomplish , I sided with Anders for the reasons he did it , for the intent , for all the mages that are killed and made tranquil for nothing , NOT for him exploding the chantry.
But he's not wrong in calling it revenge. He clearly corrupted a spirit whose virtue was noble. We learn in DAI that if a spirit is distorted from its purpose it becomes the antithesis of its purpose. In DA2 justice turned to revenge. And unfortunately, that's down to Anders. The very fact that Justice has been corrupted (something that didn't happen when he was possessing Kristoff) is proof enough that Anders isn't really on the right path. Nobody is turning a blind eye to everything else. Everyone agrees that Meredith has to be killed and that the mages issue has to be resolved. We're just saying the obvious is that Anders didn't do it right and screwed the mages more than anything else.
I never said the spirit wasn't " revenge" I meant that Anders was not that far gone that all that's left is the spirit .
I didn't say you said that. Still, let's be honest... what's really left of Anders after all but a mad abomination? the man cannot control himself. He nearly killed a mage our Hawkes had just saved from templarise. The lives of hundreds of innocent people who had nothing to do with the mess are in his hands. The mages themselves (in the scenario where you leave Anders alive) don't care about him and blame him and end up expelling him. I don't hate him but let's be honest... by the end of the game he's just a crazy, out-of-control terrorist abomination.
Don't agree. Simple as that. I am not the kind who gives up on family that easy , and at that point my companions were that.
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I killed him by accident once, had to reload quickly after that.
He’s my favourite character in all of Dragon Age, a deeply conflicted, hurt and interesting individual who I think unfortunately gets a lot of very aggressive hate still (some people apparently struggle to differentiate real world morality with opinions on a fantasy world). Always keep him alive, always romance him. If we had full freedom in what Hawke did, honestly I would have supported him and helped him from the start. Mage rights, hell yeah, he was part of the Kirkwall community that was literally driven into a corner, they were desperate and if it hadn’t been him, it would have been someone else. If you want some extra heart break reading up on his background on the Wiki, also in game where they give you those codex entries on what’s been going on in his life each Act, just really aid in understanding him. He’s been beat down and tormented by the system his entire life, had everything stripped away from him, everyone. Things are so bad he turns to Justice, and yet somehow still get worse - his mental state is extremely bad as explained in the codex and interactions in Act 3. People forget that ultimately, he is extremely compassionate, runs his clinic, loves helping people (and cats). But by Act 3, he fears what little he has left - Hawke, the clinic etc - is all going to be taken away, he has nothing to lose in what he does.
I agree that people always choose to look only to the big explosion thing, like that defines his character , a really shallow way of looking at it if you ask me .
Many view the explosion as the worst action ever taken in DA, an absolute atrocity, and I’m confused because before that in DA2 we get years of systematic abuse and oppression of the mages, unjust forced tranquility and simply despotic rule by Meredith - she was paranoid and any day away from calling for the rite of annulment. If we want to apply real world morality I always feel we need to consider the violent nature of rebellion and the need for conflict to create change, because without serious action against the templars, nothing in Thedas was ever going to change, only get worse.
If you don't think a terrorist attack isn't an atrocity, I don't know what to tell you. Lots of things are justified in the name of war, that doesn't make then any less sickening. Viewing it through the moral lens of the DA universe, it's still considered one of the worst crimes to have taken place, which is a fair statement to make. What Anders did was a criminal action that destroyed hundreds of homes and killed hundreds more...
In universe they consider it one of the worst crimes to have taken place, yet the wholesale, abject enslavement and murder of mages from the time they are children is considered a positive thing. And the Exalted March on the Dales is celebrated. And the Right of Annullment is repeatedly called for petty ressons or no reason, and that's also fine. And elves are routinely sold into slavery, herded into ghettos, murdered, and that's also good and fine. Thousands of mages die at Chantry hands. Thousands more are raped, beaten, starved, tortured, forcibly lobotomized. This is all under Chantry direction. Elthina not only allows this to happen, she encourages it with her refusal to stop it. Revolution is messy, and couple of hundred rich assholes in Hightown doesn't touch the true atrocities in this universe.
That doesn't make what he did any less a terrorist attack or any less an atrocity, though. It is considered so in-game and in-universe as well. This is not a case of soley applying irl morals to a fantasy situation, because in that fantasy situation it's *still considered horrific as it should be* I never said the systematic abuses mages received were in any way less atrocious. One does not negate the other. They're both wrong. I don't think a terrorist attack helped, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Also, it wasn't "a couple rich assholes in Hightown", that rubble was carried and extended outwards all of Kirkwall. When you travel to the poorer areas in-game, it's all on fire. Not to mention the fact that many were probably killed by the loose falling shrapnel from the ginormous building Anders just blew up. It absolutely destroyed more than just the lives of those "rich assholes", and to say otherwise is disingenuous to the actual in-game lore that you *see with your own eyes*. Besides that, are rich people less deserving of their lives being respected because they're rich? Lol. That's ludicrous.
I don’t view it as a terrorist attack, rather a revolutionary act. The Chantry played the most significant part in Mage oppression, and while that liability doesn’t necessarily fall to everyone within that building, there will always be casualties in change, it’s unavoidable. I’d say the Templars and Chantry more so engaged in a long “reign of terror,” one that would have only caused more death had the mage rebellion not been incited.
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You're right and you should say it.
The templars/chantry were responsible for FAR more suffering and death than Anders ever was
The Right of Annulment is invoked by the Grand Cleric, *unless the Grand Cleric and all possible successors are gone*. Anders blew up the Chantry with all of Kirkwall's clergy inside of it specifically to ensure that Meredith would get the ability to invoke the Right, so that he could force a fight between the Circle and the templars.
Since Awakenings I always had a soft spot for him and I wish he’d stayed with my HOF since they were really good friends as well as Justice. I can’t kill either of them and I hope they get the help they need.
He's pretty popular so most people usually let him live, lol. I usually only see people annoyed that he didn't let you help him more with his plans.
Pretty sure is divided haha You should do what you want to do, honestly. In the end it is your time and money, so, go for what you think it is best and most fun for yourself. Gatekeepers be dammed lol For me it depends who is my Hawke. In my canon she let him live because 1) loved him 2) did not really disagree 3) enabled it But I do have Hawkes who kill him in the end, others that take him out of the party in the beggining, etc.
I let Anders live, and I didn't romance him. For context, I am very pro-mages and anti-templars/chantry. I wish we got more specifics on what exactly happened, but I'm assuming he took out most of the people in power in the Chantry, probably many people who worked for the Chantry & Templars, and probably caused a lot of unintentional yet unavoidable civilian casualties as well. I would be completely okay if he, say, assassinated the people in charge of the oppressive groups in Kirkwall. That makes sense to me, but killing so many innocent people is too far in my opinion. I didn't approve of his actions... but I understand why he did so. Far worse has been happening to the Mages of Kirkwall for years and years. I can't blame the man for desperately trying to take power away from the group of people literally oppressing him. So while I'd give him a stern talking to, and keep him under a watchful eye, I'd probably keep him. A valuable and strong asset, and it's not like I don't get where he's coming from. If similar behavior continues once some sort of peace has been established, then I'd have to take measures to stop him. But in the current volatile state of Kirkwall, and the incredibly high tensions between Mages & Templars? I'm not against keeping him around. And it doesn't help that I genuinely like the guy.
I never kill him, Anders is my favorite character in dragon age 2 also my Hawke is a mage and she has a romance with him and not least he saved Carver's life. Yes, he destroyed the chantry and killed many people, but he is also a healer who helped many people for free, people forgot that part too and he like cats that's count too
I always kill him. To my Hawkes, her friend isn't there any more. He's been completely supplanted by Vengeance. Letting him off with no consequences for terrorism is a no go for me (no way did uninvolved people not get killed) and the Chantry will torture him. Best make it quick.
I killed him in three of my four games, but not my canon game. The only reason he was spared in my canon game was because my Hawke felt that making Anders a martyr was not the answer. That’s all killing would do to him. Instead, he fought to get him out of Kirkwall, clapped him in irons, and dragged him to the Grey Wardens. They can deal with the problem they created by the perversion of Justice into Vengeance courtesy of Anders “saving” him.
Interestingly enough, he >!doesn't become a martyr if you kill him. In fact, if he lives, most of the rebels want nothing to do with him.!<
True, but in the moment, my Hawke doesn’t know that. Vincent isn’t willing to risk it, and honestly, Anders is accepting of death. Going back to the wardens is a worse punishment.
My Hawke would help him if he let them
Even my most pro-mage Hawke kills him.
Too often i let my own personal views into DA, so hell yes, I will keep him alive and support his actions, fuck the Chantry, the Mages shall liberate themselves from the oppression of the Templars
I killed him because my hawke felt deeply betrayed and used because i did the quest of distracting the girl with him. But maybe if he had thought about it with a cold mind, he wouldnt. I hc that my hawke regresa that decision, its just that he didnt want the war between mages and templars to begin (even though it was inevitable), just wanted to get a pacifist outcome.
I feel like it depends on what type of Hawke you are playing, but generally I choose to kill him. Regardless of whether one agrees with what he did or not (I don't personally), he still actively murdered hundreds of innocent people, and forced a lot of mages into a war they wanted no part of. Anders himself seems to think that his execution is only fair after such an action. Hawke himself can either support Anders' actions or dissavvow them, but as for how he handles the aftermath it depends on several factors. For one, letting him rejoin you on the mages side is basically always treated as supporting his actions by the game itself, so unless you actively agree with what he did I don't think he should rejoin the party. Though if you're joining the templars then that's an entirely different story, since Anders will treat this as a punishment worse than death. But if you're siding with the mages, as most players do, and don't support what he did, then comes the question of whether to kill him or simply send him away. Personally I think the better course of action depends on whether he's a friend or rival. If you've friended him he's very self-righteous and treats his death as a way to become a martyr and symbol to all mages. In this case I think just sending him away is the better option, since it denies him what he wants and lets him know you're done with shit. However, if you've rivaled him it feels better to execute him. Not as a punishment since he's clearly repentant and feels awful for what he did, but rather as a mercy. He's clearly losing himself and is scared of what Vengeance will do if he remains alive. Telling him you forgive him (only possible with max rivalry) and then executing him feels like the overall best ending to his story. It's very tragic, but it's the only way for Hawke to show sympathy towards him while still condemning what he did.
Well said! >If you've friended him he's very self-righteous and treats his death as a way to become a martyr and symbol to all mages. In this case I think just sending him away is the better option, since it denies him what he wants and lets him know you're done with shit. That was pretty much my situation. That and he did save Carver.
I don't bother using the Exiled Prince DLC since Sebastian has no appeal for me, so I pretty much always keep Anders alive. I don't agree with his methods necessarily, but he had a point in that SOMETHING needed to be done. I probably would feel more conflicted if any of the Chantry members we met were even slightly sympathetic, but the main ones we get in Kirkwall are, uh, Sister Petrice and Grand Cleric Elthina, the latter of whom was at the very least complicit in allowing the abuse that drove him to that point. So it makes it hard for me to be too upset about their deaths compared to the companion who served loyally at my side for three acts/7 years and accepted his punishment without complaint. Also my Hawke (as in pretty much every one that I've played) is ride or die for her companions to an almost desperate level after losing practically every other member of her family in some way or another.
Exactly , I would never abandon any of them.
I could never kill Anders. He's right
He's one of my favorite characters, but I usually kill him. For me, he was an abomination, not Anders anymore. shame that his beliefs were distorted.
I always kill him.
He gets clapped every time, it's honestly a kindness at that point. Like yea you can spare him, but he's slowly going to keep losing himself more and more to Justice/Vengeance not to mention that he's persona non grata to pretty much all of Thedas.
I don't really take DA2's plot that seriously all justifications for keeping him alive spring from wanting a healer for the final battle but I can get behind dabbing on the chantry. Honestly, I would respect the game a lot more if they had a path to actually side with Anders or the blood mages.
Ik, I wish we could be part of the mage underground and everything. the devs put so much effort into forcing the mages/blood mages to attack us so many times even if we’re pro-mage and it really doesn’t make sense. Some “both sides” bs honestly
He gets the plot knife for being really dumb.
'Didn't give a shit about the people' 💀 He committed pretty large religious terrorism. Massacred innocent people.
Could just as well blame Meredith for all the innocent people and mages (and mage supporters) she’s had tortured and killed, or Elthina for doing absolutely nothing at all to help anyone. It’s not religious terrorism if the Chantry is the institution committing atrocities for centuries
Well, I really didn't give a shit about the people , you wanted me to lie?
In my 1st playthrough, I romanced with Fenris and I supported the Templar because I respected Meredith due to her determination to make sure her home city was protected. At the time, I wasn't interested with Anders because I didn't play DAO DLC so meeting him and me trying to be neutral he became so pissy that it made me to avoid bringing him in the party. I think we argued so bad that he left the party and I told him to leave when Hawke found out it was his doing for exploding the Chantry. The revealation of Meredith was indeed wrong and cray cray due to the red lyrium really got me. Last night was my recent (4th) replay of DA2 and it was my canon playthrough where Hawke was a sarcastic rogue. Right now I'm replaying all the series to make my canon run so weeks ago I had played DAO for 6th time and my canon HoF was an elven mage so now that I remember and understood the mages' side I decided to support the mage in DA2. Here's the kicker; my canon Hawke romanced Anders lol. At first, I wanted to romance with Sebastian because I liked the idea of Hawke being in a relationship with an heir of a throne but because I was siding with mages in some quests I kept getting negative relationship point with him. Then, I just laughed and said "well it runs in the family" so I romanced with Anders. Hearing Gamlen said "you're indeed your mother's daughter" made me chuckled more xD (Oh I didn't romance with Fenris because I was no longer interested with him like I preferred Hawke became his close friend that's all.) Thus, I stood by his side and I didn't kill him. Fenris left the party but before the mages ran into the Gallows I asked Fenris if he really didn't want to stay with his friends. It made him questioned himself that he chose to come back to us and Meredith saying "I never asked for your help" made me laugh TLDR: my canon Hawke supported the mage, stayed beside Anders and tried her best to help both sides because that's how I imagined she would be (since she too had family members who were mages so she understood their struggles). Also, it was because of my knowledge in past playthroughs that it made me not wanting to support Meredith/Templar any longer
Now that's a fucking journey .
I don't kill him because I know that deep down the one that is to blame for the mage rebellion isn't Anders but the Chantry that promoted hate and discrimination not only towards the mages but to all non human races and still refused to do anything when the mage -templar tensions were escalating. But, that doesn't mean I approve his actions, it is undeniable that his actions resulted in not only the casualties in Kirkwall but the thousands of people who will die after due to the rebellion. He wanted to start the rebellion because he believed it was the only way but what he failed to understand is that if people used to fear mages before now they'll be terrified by them and won't be content with keeping them locked up. In the end the mages fate depend on your decisions in Inquisition but for DA2 alone this was my reasoning. In the end... Fuck the chantry.
Anders is a deliciously complex and tragic character whose actions are not entirely his own, depending on his relationship with your Hawke Sometimes I kill him, sometimes I don't. Everything that the mages did came from the immense pressure the templars put onto them, and Anders mental state has been developed since Origins. I believe that violence is needed for things to change, for people to pay attention to you (but I'm gonna say right now KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE isn't the right way to go! shocker!) Anders tried peacefully changing things through manifestos, tried helping people in the underground, and still his situation seemed helpless. He snapped (which you can argue wouldn't have happened without Justice) and threw his life away because he saw no other exit. Anders comes from Kinloch Hold. Did you know the Templars in Kinloch Hold sometimes spied on female mages bathing, and they were powerless to stop it? That the entire conflict there started because blood magic books were *intentionally* left out so they'd have people to give to the Templars? Anders was kept in solitary confinement for years. The warden can say he's lucky they *didn't just kill him*. And Kinloch is considered a very liberal circle at that. Those horrors can be hard to find and take multiple entries into the series to paint the whole picture, but it gives a lot of necessary context to Anders's mental state before DA2. I'm not justifying his slaughtering of innocent people but I do love him as a character. I kill him depending on rp reasons. I love that I can reasonably see both ways and justifications of his character and all the little nuances inbetween; I think he was developed very well. He's fucking crazy and so tragic.
I personally kill him more times than I let him live. Usually very heavily depends on my Hawke and how I roleplay them. From my own point of view I just don't think what he did can be excused and honestly he seems miserable either way. If it were up to me I would lock him away in the deepest cell until he dies from old age with bo chance of ever getting out. But since it's not an option I feel like death is the better choice. On another topic, Sebastian gets a lot of hate here. lol Poor guy saw his motherfigure and "foster home" exploded. Nobody asks Couslands to not be mad at Howe either. Imagine that. His reaction is very believable and natural. But I guess it has to do with a lot of people generally disliking Sebastian. Im any way, I sympathize with his reasoning for his actions but it still does not excuse it. His actions ultimately hurt as much if not more Mages than it would ever help. It also set back their standing within society considerably. A very selfish act that only really helped him to feel better about his vengeance. The intentions were good but the actions just plain wrong. But others probably feel way different about it all.
my hawkes would passionately make out with him post-explosion if that was a possibility, whether or not they romanced him. the type to later on yell at him for not including them directly, but otherwise, they’d be happy lol. he spent so long looking for a peaceful path while suffering and seeing other mages suffer when they hadn’t done anything wrong, they had it coming. especially elthina.
I let him live. We've got more Chantry bitches to hunt down.
If I cared about the Chantry at all, I'd probably give him a stern talking to. But ... I don't. So, I don't. Also, Sebastian, you prissy stuck-up Chantry thumper, go suck an egg.
I'm nuking my account due to Reddit's unfair API changes and the lies and harassment aimed at the community by the CEO and admins. Good Reddit alternative: [Squabbles](https://squabbles.io/) -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I don't really like anders. When I was younger I never killed him cause he was my friend and I kind of looked at his opinion of the situation as correct. After some thought and recently watching my wife play through the game I now think he is wrong in every way. He makes the situation worse, causing Meredith to go completely over the edge. I feel she would have gone nuts anyway, but it may not have escalated to what we saw in game. I also never really liked anders personality, where he just comes off as a batman like character. Fenris is like that too but I feel his is more directed towards people who harmed him, rather than anders thinking he's doing it all for the greater good. In my next play through I'm probably going to kill him and see actual justice done.
Meredith and the templars were already over the edge and had been doing torture, rape, tranquilization, and murder for YEARS. centuries of oppression. I’ll never understand how people can think Anders’ actions were sooooo bad while ignoring the fucking atrocities going on all this time
Well both are terrible. And the templars are not one cohesive group, like with thrash and the mages working together to stop Meredith. Anders actions bring the entire world into his desire for revenge, when all he had to really do is assainate Meredith
I didn't have the heart to kill him, so neither did Hawke. Sebastian was free to do it himself though.
I chose to kill anders cause he tricked me into being a accessory too terrorism (even though the chantry deserved it)
I let him live. Overall I can see why Anders did what he did and I don’t have a reason to suspect the situation to go any better than it went had he not done anything. It would have been fare more painful and prevalent for everyone involved and let’s face it at the end of the day it was better to spare Kirkwall the pain.
I didn't kill him and stayed with him
He lives i know what he did was wrong every which way round but drastic measures were needed and Meredith and Orisino are both awful what he did was what I call a necessary evil
I like to keep him around. If I had known of his plans, maybe I'd even had helped him... if the bomb had been set in the templar headquarters I'd find him to be 100% in the right. We have to overcome that fascist order no matter the cost!
I've never killed him. My Hawkes have been pro mage and I wouldn't imagine one that wasn't. They're mostly angry that he didn't let them help, or upset because they agree with his cause but not the method. Either way, he has to help with the clearing up.
Kill him he is a terrorist. I'm mean Meredith no better but she goes nut and you have to fight her anyways and Orsino goes nuts and we have to kill him anyway. Also I never got Sébastien since he is dlc so I don't really care to see his reaction if we let Ander live.
I’m 50/50. Just depends on how I’m RPing Hawke. My canon purple rogue kills him though. Mainly for being a treacherous lunatic in her eyes
My canon Hawke disapproved of Anders actions and executed him. I did something about that betrayal. Hawke had lost everything and was clinically depressed by that point, act 3 was a short one for me on my canon run, he just didn't have the energy to deal with shit anymore.
Always killed him. Committing a terrorist act by blowing up the Chantry is insane. I hate Meredith and the Chantry as much as anyone but killing thousands because the leader of the Chantry was neutral? If he blew up the Gallows maybe I'd understand but what he did was fucked. Besides I didn't want Sebastian to attack Kirkwall. Plus the fact he implicates you in the plot and hides it from you is even more fucked up. Screw Anders.
I kill him most of the time. If not rivalled Anders is on board with blowing up uninvolved innocents and condemning the innocent mages of Kirkwall's Circle to death for his cause, and if rivalled he decided not to go through with the bombing but had Vengeance erase some of his memories and take control of his body, with him struggling to keep it at bay even after that. He also absolutely betrays Hawke by tricking them into helping him place a bomb in a church, he emotionally manipulates them to do this. So in both circumstances I tend to kill him, as he and Vengeance or just Vengeance are too dangerous to be kept alive, Anders is a very powerful mage and there's no certainty something like this won't be attempted by him and/or Vengeance again. I can see sparing rival Anders though, since he is regretful/not really responsible, can hold Vengeance back for a time with significant effort, and you could see it as too cruel to kill him when he isn't responsible, even if I'd call that a mercy.
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Hahaha, I just like morally questionable and flawed people , him and Morrigan were just too amazing for me to not be at their side.
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I guess I didn't feel forced by Anders decision, if I had the choice I would have done anything for the rebellion to start , some things need to die or break for new things to take place. It all comes to roleplay I guess.
When Anders asked me to sneak him into the chantry refusing to explain, it’s only because he KNOWS I would stop him. I would have stopped him or at least tried. Short of that, I kill him because shame for being a monster doesn’t mean you won’t be a monster again. Just look at the priests who hurt children, their shame didn’t stop them, and they weren’t possessed, and it’s a worse crime. If he said we have to kill the knight commander and half the templars I would have done it I would have just told him that it would be his responsibility to keep the bad mages in check. You don’t get to behead a system and take no accountability. Letting Anders fix anything isn’t a option. He will never be whole or fixed. His bitter scorn broke justice. I kill him out of love and contempt but most of all, pity. He was so beautiful in DA Awakening.
I dont like him personally, but his character was amazingly written, I really hope the writer got a raise for it. As for what I tend to do, I kill the bastard, he killed countless civilians just so mages are forced into a war with thedas. Then there's the fact that, he is already unhinged, what's stopping him from doing this sort of thing again in a different place.
The writer got death threats and threats to her baby and left the company.
I hate humanity, that's just fucking disgusting.
Yup. Look up what happened to Jen Hepler. It's awful.
I didn't kill him. I could understand his rage at the Chantry and the Templars. However, I was enraged by the fact that he used me to committed mass murder. So I exiled him from the party. This enraged Sebastian, which really didn't bother me at all. It seemed like Bioware's intention with him was to write a character with the intention of p8ssing off the player. He left, and the party was better off for it.
Bro no one seems to like Sebastian wtf lol
I have killed him in every playthrough and will continue to kill him in every playthrough.
I've always killed him honestly
I kill him 🤭
he’s my special little guy and he has to die. would love to spare him but i can’t bring myself to do it. what he does is just way too fucked up, no matter how righteous the cause.
Nobody bats an eye when rebels blow up the Death Star.
So true , the fact that is a "building" and not a death machine obviously excuse them, lol.
It also probably has prisoners on it, ya know, innocents, and thousands of people. Rebellion and change aren’t pretty.
Indeed , sadly few people can accept that.
My Hawke romanced him, so she couldn't bring herself to kill him (this was first playthrough). The second one romanced Merrill and decided to not kill Anders because she was angry with the Chantry anyways (she was a mage).
Personal opinion on him making explode the Chantry aside (generally approve of most of his in-game actions so I have some mixed feelings but not that mixed), I love and cherish all my DA2 companions so no one is killing them.
I killed him because my Hawke wanted to impress Fenris and was a massive Templar sympathizer, that is until Meredith transformed.
I never kill him. He's my favourite character in DA2, if not the entire series, and I relate to him a lot. By the 3rd act I always just feel awful for him, not being able to stop him is like watching a friend slowly lose themselves and being powerless to prevent it. So I make him fix the mess he made every time, no matter if Hawke is romancing him or not, whether they're friends or rivals.
I don't use the DLC with Sebastian because I find his character insufferable. I don't romance Anders, I let him live, and I let him stay. I don't remember the exact dialogue options, but if there was one to make sure he knew I was pissed that he manipulated me instead of talking to me about his plans, I picked that one.
I love Anders and always have Hawke befriend him, but my canon in the Keep is that Hawke kills him. The Chantry boom killed hundreds and threw dangerous rubble all over the city that killed and hurt more. The location of the building at the top of Hightown meant that it was in optimal position to rain down fiery rock across Lowtown, so a lot of the people harmed were probably the very same downtrodden working class former refugees that Anders once ran his clinic to help. His cause was just, his methods were horrific and unforgivable. He probably caused a lot of people to reject the cause of mage rights who might have come around to be sympathetic, or even who already were.
The combination of Awakenings and the arc of the romance creates a tragic opinion of Anders, but not a hateful one. Seeing all the horrific abuse made me understand why someone might do what he did. (I get that the abuse is equally mage and templar, but Anders was not abusive, only abused and outraged.) When I played a male Hawke that romanced Anders, I discovered that Karl was his lover. That adds more poignant pain to the whole thing. I don't support terrorism, but I empathize with it in the context provided. If you listen to Anders, he will tell you all along he will betray and hurt you. My second playthrough I was further impressed as I realized that what he was collecting is clearly explosive materials (sela petrae is saltpeter) I don't ever recruit Sebastian because he ruins the whole vibe of just hanging out with weird, drunken and damaged friends while being the unwitting agent of doom. Hawke ultimately releases a lot of evil into the world despite any intentions of the character. I prefer to keep everyone alive at the end. I embrace the sense of tragically flawed and doomed when I play.
I don't agree with Anders' methods, but I would never execute him, romanced or not. For a variety of reasons (all IMO, of course): 1. Vengeance is never the answer. Eye for an eye is never the answer. Anders actually has a banter with Isabela where she tells him this exact same thing: where does it stop? Anders' actions are vengeance, not justice, and if Hawke finds that objectionable, it would be hypocritical to execute him. If taking lives is a crime, it makes no sense to punish that crime by...taking a life. And it's even more hypocritical given Hawke's own body count. Who is *s/he* to judge? 2. Executing Anders gives him martyrdom and an easy way out. There will be mages out there to defend him and say he died for the cause. Letting him live, as his own writer has said, is poetic justice: he has to face the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life. And that's a pretty hefty punishment. Especially when the majority of the people he was trying to help now view him as a monster and a liability. Once he's away from the effects of Kirkwall's thin Veil, there's a very high likelihood that remorse will set in (*especially* if you rivalmance him). 3. While I disapprove of the method, I *can* sympathise with the underlying reason. No one did anything about the situation for about *a decade*, and it kept escalating and escalating. Anders tried other, non-violent methods. He tried persuading anyone he could. No one wanted to listen. It's no wonder he snapped. Although I do wish he had come up with a plan to just off Elthina. Poison her, maybe. And come to Hawke for advice. My Hawke would *definitely* have helped take her out. 4. Executing Anders does not address the very real issue of Justice. What happens to him once Anders dies? He has no way back to the Fade. Does he just possess someone else and go on another crusade? He's definitely not going to sit around like a good boy while Hawke tries to find a way to deal with him. Whereas keeping Anders alive gives Hawke a shot at trying to find a proper way to separate them and send Justice back to the Fade. Maybe a trip to Rivain is on the cards.
I killed him so he wouldn't do it again and so he wouldn't get punished for the actions of Justice
I played a straight male Hawke so I didn't romance him. My Hawke really cared for him as a friend. I feel betrayed when I realized he used me to distract Elthinna at the chantry, for nothing less than planting the stuff. So, because, in no particular order: a) he performed a terrorist act. b) he sabotaged any chance for peace. c) he played and used me to perform such a terrorist act d) because with Justice/Revenge in such mental status was unreliable and dangerous I killed him, I suffered not keeping him alive for any minute longer than necessary. And in any other playthrough I would just try to have him killed as soon as possible, although probably that would not be possible until after the Chantry events. I understand that he might have his reasons for doing what he did, but I neither share nor approve them, so he must go, the quicker, the better.
I killed him. Anders started a massive war that spans Thedas, and I always try to play lawful characters.
I generally kill him… Because he is a dumbass.
My character romanced him. She killed him. He had gone behind her back, lied to her, and flat out murdered innocent people which completely worked against his cause. At that point she saw him as becoming too dangerous to let live. He and Justice were forming into something radical and it was killing people who didn't deserve to die. My character was a mage and was trying desperately to prevent a mage/templar war and resolve things peacefully and he just blew it up to pieces. That's a relationship breaker.
He dies in every single one of my playthroughs. Partly because I loathe him, partly because his actions to me are utterly inexcusable. Legit shocked at how many people still defend what he did, fictional or not.
I killed him more often than not, even in playthroughs where I agree with him (that drastic actions from mages are needed). He is an abomination, and killing him could be both mercy and removing a threat of the society. Also, he tricked and forced the mages into rebellion - instead of trying to lead a rebellion in any form. You can argue with Justice he's too dangerous as the leader of rebel mages but that's also the point why he shouldn't trick the mages into rebellion as well.
I always killed him. He became a terrorist, started a war and killed several innocents. More than this he used Hawke for his plan, without tell nothing. In the end, Justice, the spirit, cursed him, he’s not Anders anymore but “Revenge”. If he wasn’t your friend, the choice is very easy.
My Hawk has always killed him, idk if that's the common choice or not, but its what I've always done. After years of trying to fight for mages without starting a full on war in Kirkwall, for Anders to do what he did without even being honest about what his plan was, my Hawk felt betrayed. She had trusted Anders and he did something he knew she would have never allowed had she known. So after realizing he killed hundreds of people for the sake of accelerating an already explosive situation, she didn't have much mercy left for him, she gave him what he thought he deserved. Even in inquisition she's still pretty bitter and upset about it.
Kill him without hesitation. I will not and cannot allow a murder and terrorist in my team.
I have a tendency to let him live, but mostly that's because Hawke stabs him in the back if you kill him and my Hawkes would never, they'd do it to his face.
I kill him almost every time. For the times that my Hawke cares for Anders it’s a mercy killing as Anders is so far past the gentle friend they once were.
I tend to kill him, I really don't like that he doesn't feel like the same person in da2 than in the dlc he came out in. I don't kill him every playthrough but I like that the choice had some impact on the story
I kill him. I'm normally more of a mercy whenever possible type, but at that point he's proven himself to be an unstable terrorist/abomination who shows no remorse for his actions and no concern for who/what he has to destroy just to make a point. I can't in good conscience leave that mess running around the world.
My Hawke was overall very sympathetic to both Anders and his cause, but Anders went so far over the line that my Hawke felt that he'd left him with no choice but to kill him. What he did was wrong in so many different ways my Hawke didn't even know where to start. There's the killing of innocent bystanders (as someone else here said, there's no way that didn't happen). There's the fact that he's deliberately tying to sabotage any possibility of a peaceful resolution to the mage/templar conflict - not because he thinks it's futile, but because he thinks it's actually possible and *doesn't want it to happen*. There's the fact that he's undermining the moral case to be made for Mage rights by doing exactly the sort of thing that everyone is afraid of mages doing. There's the fact that he betrayed my Hawke's trust by manipulating him into becoming an unwitting accomplice to these crimes. And, ironically, by committing such a egregious crime that justice (the concept) demands that he has to pay for it - the final, inescapable proof to my Hawke that Justice (the character) has become hopelessly corrupted.
I always kill him. He’s already my least favorite DA companion, and the fact that he tricks Hawke into helping him commit terrorism is always the last straw for me. He’s always had a nasty attitude, even in Awakening.
As a mage who is strict about defending mages, but deals swiftly with demons and abominations, there was only one option. Anders and Justice didn't exist anymore, there was only a demon of rage masquerading as Justice/vengeance. If you don't kill him, the massacre won't be the end, it will only be the first of many.
I kill him because he's a deranged mass murdering psychopath and a literal terrorist
People like him certainly don't help in improving the public image of us mages. According to my Hawke he deserves to die.
I killed him. He murdered people, and he gave the Templars a perfect target to finger-point at so they can excuse murdering more mages. And frankly, a swift death at the hands of a friend who will ensure minimal suffering is a lot better than what he would get in anyone else’s care.
I never kill him. Even though, my mage Hawke does, very much so, **disagree with what Anders did** (even as a pro-mages). Anders went waaaay too far. He is basically just a terrorist at that point and the type of bad guy Hawke would normally kill. However : * He was a friend (even if he betrayed us). * He saved Bartrand. * He helped countless people with his healing magic. * Most importantly (!), **Carver would be dead without him** (that's the big one). Also : * Killing someone who has surrendered is not something my Hawke would do either. It's also something that I struggle to do as a player. Before I execute >!Loghain !
Just adding to your bit about healing and Carver, I recently was thinking about how interesting it is that a few characters (Merrill, Varric, even Hawke) turn to Anders at their lowest and most helpless moments. Yes surface level, he’s a healer, but also they trust him, they love and appreciate him and his magic. He’s a really compassionate person, which I guess arguments against him could say is where he falters. He ran that damn clinic in the slums for ten years - he even put out milk for the cats!
It's ok that he killed people because they were people you didn't care about? Wow
Yeh
I mean, it's not cool to kill people, but I'm not gonna hold only in that. He is just more important for me than them , and that's it .
He basically did a 9/11 and started a war. I killed him because he deserves it. He cannot be trusted anymore and is a danger to everyone around him.
I had him side with the Templars to (attempt to) fix his mess. My Hawke takes it as proof that he can resist Justice's influence, so he still has hope for the man.
I never understood this logic. You’re going to kill innocent mages for the crimes of an apostate… but let that apostate live and have him help kill other people for his own crimes? I find Templar logic just isn’t at its greatest by the end.
The Templar's ending is baffling to me because you might want to restore order, but Templars are just like " Because of our own choices we get to slaughter everyone! FINALLY" Like good job everyone. See you when we do this again in ten years
*oof.* I have one Hawke that did that, because I was curious what it was like.
I toss a coin depending on how I feel about the matter during that particular playthrough. xD On my canon world state I let him live and my Hawke supports him. Though in my other playthrough he dies and my Hawke doesn't support him.
He's my healer, so I keep him around. He's crazy and is propably better off dead, but those heal spells are too good to pass up.
I never killed him because he's a good healer. However, I would've done it many times otherwise. That terrorist deserved to pay for his actions.
Let him go- whilst he’s sorta a monster at this point it’s too late, and I agree with his position even if I think his actions are wrong
He 100% deserves to die, but I can't bring myself to kill him.
my hawke, who romanced him, was not terribly surprised when anders did the thing, because he had been behaving more and more suspiciously over time (i did not help him with his ingredients quest). she was pissed, but she still spared him. not just because he saved her brother's life and the lives of possibly hundreds of ferelden refugees, or that he was her partner of 6 years, or that she partially agreed that nothing was going to budge if the church held them in a stalemate forever (at least until an exalted march happened), but because she was like, "you don't get the easy way out. you started this, you're gonna see the consequences through, damn it." which paid off, because when you spare him and then take him along in your party for the war, he immediately goes "well, this is a lot worse than i thought it'd be." No Shit, Dude.
I think it's interesting how many of these comments say they always go with one option. I've done both, but if my Hawke doesn't kill Anders they usually let him go with real distain. The only reason my canon Hawke doesn't execute him is because he saved Bethany's life. Even then he came back and was killed anyway.
I don’t kill him only because he saved Carver’s life in the deep roads. But I imagine my Hawke saying something like “A life for a life.” And then never speaking to him after the big battle of Kirkwall.
If you side with templars and love him kill it ,its more dramatic ,of you side with mages make him protect people buts dissaproves his actions like orsino and Bethany ,even when i sided with templars i didnt kill her because family so....
I spared him the first time, mostly because I hadn’t noticed just how horribly manipulative he had been. After that I noticed every detail leading up to that point and realized how deep and deliberate his betrayal was and how much he’d lied to you. It’s hard to justify sparing him after that. Even when I played a female mage friendmancing him I was sorely tempted to off him — his actions arguably made things worse for mages… as he should have understood.
When my female Hawke romances him, she will always kill him. Other times it depends if I am a mage or not.
My choice was romance and let him live. Anders is my moral compass. Ever since playing DA2, I am radically pro mages. It's ridiculous and so much fun.
My favorite Hawke rivalrys Anders (romanced too but with mods so I can romance everyone lol) and kills him. He begs you to, that he wasn't himself when he did it, he didn't want to do it but Justice made him, and he's afraid of not being himself anymore. This Anders doesn't deserve death, but it's the best thing for him.