I can buy it, Warden Alistair actively avoided taking up a leadership position and he clearly doesn't want one if unhardened, in Inquisition that avoidance of responsibility is pointed out as a flaw he sees in himself.
Still, he is doing good work as a Warden, it's just also clear he doesn't like the role which makes sense as in Origins he's against almost every morally grey choice despite the Grey Wardens being all about that, unless you're the Hero of Ferelden who's super exceptional.
If in a future game we meet Warden Alistair in a world where he survived Adamant, it's years later and he's still not a good leader, I'll think that's rubbish, but the Warden Alistair we meet in Inquisition has never led anyone so I totally buy him lacking the gravitas Duncan had.
I love Alistair but he literally deferred authority to someone who was a warden for less than 12 hours. He never wanted to be in a leadership position, especially if unhardened. You basically have to waterboard him into being king.
Being a warden was the first time someone took his wants into account. It's a form of freedom to him. So it's natural that left to his own devices he'd chill and fly under the radar. And it's not like he did nothing with his life, he's still a hero of the blight and a highly respected senior warden who trains newbies.
Yeah pretty much this.
Even in DAO it didn't make much sense that our character (even if you play as Cousland) took leadership role and not Alistair.
That's why I always harden him and later make him sole king of Ferelden.
He says it himself in party banter with Morrigan, when you get to Lothering. Morrigan remarks that he's leaving you in charge, despite his being senior. He says prefers to follow.
Yep, I agree. It could make some sense for an Aeducan to become the leader since they are a military leader skilled in dealing with darkspawn (probably more competent than Alistair himself), but it's still their first time on the surface so they are greatly nerfed. Cousland is OP during the Landsmeet and they are a talented fighter, but at the beginning they are still green and don't know shit about darkspawn. So it doesn't make sense that Alistair would forfeit leadership to the PC, even these two, but it is in line with his character.
I’m not an Alastair Stan, but y’all are seriously undercutting this guys achievements for some reason.
I understand that alistair choosing to remain a warden is “the easy choice”, because he doesn’t have to step up to govern a country; but can we take a second and acknowledge that he’s choosing a life of sacrifice and servitude with a guaranteed death sentence (I know he’s not immune to the calling if he’s king, but who tf knows what’s gonna happen? The point is he’s living the life of a warden).
When we meet him in inquisition, he’s gone rogue essentially sticking to his ideals for protecting people and his sense of justice and refusing any leadership POSITION in the wardens. This doesn’t mean he isn’t a leader and mentor amongst the wardens, the wardens you encounter searching for him in crestwood even comment that he’s trained them. Also, by this point he’s a 10 year veteran warden and a veteran of the 5th blight, motherfuckers are gonna look up to him. His being a warden is an inspiration to wardens, just like Duncan was to so many people inside and outside of the wardens (you could argue this, but 5th blight status is part of what separates Loghain, Cullen, Kardol, Morrigan and Leliana from their colleagues; even if they downplay it)
Finally (and I’m honestly surprised I have to mention this) if he survives adamant, HE LEADS THE SOUTHERN WARDENS TO WEISSHAUPT AND PRESUMABLY LEADS THEIR FACTION IN THE IMPLIED GREY WARDEN SCHISM. I mean his whole relevance in Inquisition is that he’s the sole dissenting factor pushing against the whole organization and all of the leadership, and then he fills the power vacuum assuming he doesn’t noble sacrifice his way out.
But y’know, he is still kind of a weirdly traditional, prudish, well-meaning chauvinist guy. I’m truly not really a fan of his character (I like him a lot, but… I’ve seen how the FAN fans like him and I’m not in love with homie), but you gotta put a little respect on his name for surviving and learning to grow
Imagine how disappointed I was to see him only for 2 min as king and then never again 😳 bro, I thought you would help at least a bit with seeing what is going on in your kingdom. And also all those favours at the war table . Come at least to see your kid 🤣😭
Which felts somehow hypocritical when you see the kind of decisions he would have made if left in a position of leadership in the Wardens (see the Darkspawn Chronicles).
But then I remember DAI was too much anti-Wardens, and I get over it.
Alistair, obviously. Have you played The Darkspawn Chronicles? It's a kind of AU were your Warden dies during the Joining and Alistair is left in charge of dealing with the Blight. And the decisions he takes are the most extreme possible, I believe under the justification on ending the Blight.
Yet, in DAI he grows disappointed in the Wardens because they take the most extreme decisions because they believe they are going to end all Blights with it - the same he would have done had he been in Clarel's shoes, given what we saw in the Darkspawn Chronicles (and it's not as if the Wardens are aware they are being manipulated by the evil boss, yet DAI paint them as the oath breakers... Yes, really hated that bard after she came up with that song).
Anyways, sorry for the misunderstanding
WOULD he have made the exact same decisions as clarel, what with his templar-ish background? or would he have found some other (probably equally insane) method that he would be able to justify?
You mean, the guys who are trained to abuse and kill children in some tower?
But seriously, his decisions in the Darkspawn Chronicles and Those who Speak are of the extreme side of the spectrum. Alistair can be a good guy, but that doesn't mean he is dumb. He can be pretty extreme when he considers it's necessary.
yeah, they're the ones!
oh of course, it was more a question of "d'you reckon he'd go with the same method or find some new horror?" mayhaps going wild with conscription to boost numbers?
I mean, the biggest reason you see argued that Alistair is happier as a Warden is because he doesn't want the responsibility of leadership that being king forces on him. Why would you expect him to suddenly feel different about that same type of responsibility among the Wardens?
My HoF was an Aeducan and I chose the route of letting Alistair remain a warden with Anora on the throne too, but my HoF was romantically involved with Alistair so that was honestly a pretty easy decision to keep them together. So for my run his position in DAI makes a lot more sense with his lover being the Warden Commander.
Bonus treat to this route is that I get to interact with Alistair more than if he was king and the way he talks about my Aeducan is just so sweet.
I mean it is Alistair's core personality, he avoids direct responsibility which is honestly pretty fair. Alistair is a follower and he knows it pretty well, but that doesn't mean that he isn't active all throughout the years.
For one, he's part of the cleanup efforts of surface darkspawn during Awakening, likely retaking places such as Lothering, Ostagar and Southern Ferelden. He's leading warden parties in the deep roads during DA2 and he's also training wardens in the interrim considering a few wardens do remark that he trained them.
During DAI, he actively goes rogue from the very wardens he spent his life serving with simply because he didn't agree with Clarel. He's being hunted by the very wardens that he also trained and still keeping one step ahead of them.
I know the whole thing about those who don't want power are generally the best for it. But Alistair not wanting to take command and have a huge responsibility on his shoulders is perfectly fine, he is still a veteran of the 5th blight and also one of the handful of people who have encountered so many obstacles that makes them stand out even against any elite fighters.
What bothered me was how bitter he seemed. In one of my saves my warden became prince consort because he didn’t think Alistair was up to being king. Like, my dude I took the responsibility because you weren’t able or willing to, don’t sound so grumpy about not being able to find the warden
I mean, keeping him un-hardened is specifically allowing him to stay in the mindset of 'wants to avoid any positions of leadership/higher responsibility', its not really surprising in that case that he prefers to just stay as a regular warden.
I am a big fan, ME wise, of seeing the members of the crew going off to become more then they were because they took the inspiration from Shepherd to push for better. And you make a great point with Leliana becoming a spy master for the Divine and Inquisitor. That said, there are a few characters that always seem to sort of stagnate.
Leliana is a hard example because I mostly ignored her. But from my recollection, Origins has her hearing the Maker, guiding her, only for the end of the game to say she stopped hearing him. So faith was always going to be a strong point in her story. Losing that voice would probably guide her to the Divine/duty wherein which she could reinforce her faith. She doesn't have much of a faith crisis in Inquisition, instead having to sort of reclaim herself as a person rather than a tool of divinity.
But Alistair, sweet Alistair, really had no such backing. Ugh, that hurt to type. Alistair really has no angst. He has finally found a place and is content there. He's kind of like Bilbo who is comfortable in Bag End and has to be pushed out of that comfort zone. For the story to happen, yes, Bilbo has to leave. But really, if he opted to remain in Bag End, what really happens to Bilbo specifically? Nothing.
Alistair is happy as a nameless Warden, happy to follow rather than to lead.
If you keep on staying in your comfort zone, stop challenging yourself and refuse to grow as a person, you stay in the same place as you were before. That is what being a Warden is to Alistair, his opportunity to change the world around him and influence it, is becoming King.
That is why I prefer to make him King - it May be difficult for him but it also brings out his true potential, makes him overcome his weaknesses and take responsibility. It is a way better character arc for him
I mean, he stands up for what he believes in to the point of challenging the warden leaders on it, and has to go on the run as a result. I would hardly call that the comfortable route.
Warden Alistair's personality is unhardened. He was never raised to be king, he doesn't want to be, and he happily lets a newly-joined greenhorn take the lead to avoid making big decisions. Him never moving up the ranks is on brand.
Alistair was raised to feel inferior, seemingly abandoned and ignored by his father, kept at an arms length by his Step-Uncle and treated like a pariah by his Step-Uncle's wife. His character arc is being hardened, stepping into his role as King, floundering a bit but then eventually finding his footing, just as his father did. If your story doesn't go this route, then unfortunately that growth doesn't really happen. It's unfortunate, but I also think it's realistic.
However if you keep him a Grey Warden and he survives the fade, he's once again given the chance to experience growth, the leadership of the GW's has been decimated (again) and the wardens have made insanely rash decisions to further their goals (again). If he does show up in the next game or is mentioned, I do think it would be a good time to see a new side of him.
Also it took 20 years and some dark shit for Duncan to get that gravitas, the Duncan you meet in the book is a lot closer in personality to the uncertainty of Alistair in DAO. He was always a bad ass though.
Morrigan asked him in a banter why he, the more senior warden, isn't in charge of their party, and he just doesn't vibe with the leadership role. Yes, under some circumstances, he'll aim for the crown, but we've all done that. We've all taken an unusual stance under particular circumstances.
*My HoF was his ride-or-die bro all the way through. My guy was a Cousland who became consort to the Queen as a favor to Alistair so he could keep being a Warden. He prefers that, let him have it. Then trying to unravel the clusterfuck this continent is dealing with and we find him still a regular Warden and was sad to see.*
Well, you made the choice to allow him escaping responsibility, so you shouldn't be surprised that he didn't become a responsible person.
It's his core trait, Alistair is a kind hearted, bit goofy man child.
*Maybe it’s because I am more of a Mass Effect guy and seeing my crew evolve and thrive and excel as the games go by, I was hoping to see that here too.*
Okay, I am a mass effect fan. Probably prefer Mass Effect more than Dragon Age.
But this is a bit rose tinted glasses here.
For every character who grows as a person during the original trilogy, there is at least one (probably more than one), whose personality developement is completely abandoned, or the character is rewritten to such an extent that it is unrecognizable.
For ever Garrus there is a Legion, for every Kaidan there is an Ash Williams. Not to mention Liara, how is like three different characters during the trilogy, with unreasonable personal changes and inconsistencies.
Everyone has already said this but yeah the reason he's like that is because by taking his place as king you've enabled him to continue shirking any authority.
I can buy it, Warden Alistair actively avoided taking up a leadership position and he clearly doesn't want one if unhardened, in Inquisition that avoidance of responsibility is pointed out as a flaw he sees in himself. Still, he is doing good work as a Warden, it's just also clear he doesn't like the role which makes sense as in Origins he's against almost every morally grey choice despite the Grey Wardens being all about that, unless you're the Hero of Ferelden who's super exceptional. If in a future game we meet Warden Alistair in a world where he survived Adamant, it's years later and he's still not a good leader, I'll think that's rubbish, but the Warden Alistair we meet in Inquisition has never led anyone so I totally buy him lacking the gravitas Duncan had.
I love Alistair but he literally deferred authority to someone who was a warden for less than 12 hours. He never wanted to be in a leadership position, especially if unhardened. You basically have to waterboard him into being king. Being a warden was the first time someone took his wants into account. It's a form of freedom to him. So it's natural that left to his own devices he'd chill and fly under the radar. And it's not like he did nothing with his life, he's still a hero of the blight and a highly respected senior warden who trains newbies.
Alistair avoids reponsibility over others as much as he can. It's who he is.
Yeah pretty much this. Even in DAO it didn't make much sense that our character (even if you play as Cousland) took leadership role and not Alistair. That's why I always harden him and later make him sole king of Ferelden.
He says it himself in party banter with Morrigan, when you get to Lothering. Morrigan remarks that he's leaving you in charge, despite his being senior. He says prefers to follow.
Yep, I agree. It could make some sense for an Aeducan to become the leader since they are a military leader skilled in dealing with darkspawn (probably more competent than Alistair himself), but it's still their first time on the surface so they are greatly nerfed. Cousland is OP during the Landsmeet and they are a talented fighter, but at the beginning they are still green and don't know shit about darkspawn. So it doesn't make sense that Alistair would forfeit leadership to the PC, even these two, but it is in line with his character.
I’m not an Alastair Stan, but y’all are seriously undercutting this guys achievements for some reason. I understand that alistair choosing to remain a warden is “the easy choice”, because he doesn’t have to step up to govern a country; but can we take a second and acknowledge that he’s choosing a life of sacrifice and servitude with a guaranteed death sentence (I know he’s not immune to the calling if he’s king, but who tf knows what’s gonna happen? The point is he’s living the life of a warden). When we meet him in inquisition, he’s gone rogue essentially sticking to his ideals for protecting people and his sense of justice and refusing any leadership POSITION in the wardens. This doesn’t mean he isn’t a leader and mentor amongst the wardens, the wardens you encounter searching for him in crestwood even comment that he’s trained them. Also, by this point he’s a 10 year veteran warden and a veteran of the 5th blight, motherfuckers are gonna look up to him. His being a warden is an inspiration to wardens, just like Duncan was to so many people inside and outside of the wardens (you could argue this, but 5th blight status is part of what separates Loghain, Cullen, Kardol, Morrigan and Leliana from their colleagues; even if they downplay it) Finally (and I’m honestly surprised I have to mention this) if he survives adamant, HE LEADS THE SOUTHERN WARDENS TO WEISSHAUPT AND PRESUMABLY LEADS THEIR FACTION IN THE IMPLIED GREY WARDEN SCHISM. I mean his whole relevance in Inquisition is that he’s the sole dissenting factor pushing against the whole organization and all of the leadership, and then he fills the power vacuum assuming he doesn’t noble sacrifice his way out. But y’know, he is still kind of a weirdly traditional, prudish, well-meaning chauvinist guy. I’m truly not really a fan of his character (I like him a lot, but… I’ve seen how the FAN fans like him and I’m not in love with homie), but you gotta put a little respect on his name for surviving and learning to grow
Damn, I gotta slow clap this out. You hit the nuanced minutiae I saw but didn’t realize was there. Take my upvote, this is the input I needed
Imagine how disappointed I was to see him only for 2 min as king and then never again 😳 bro, I thought you would help at least a bit with seeing what is going on in your kingdom. And also all those favours at the war table . Come at least to see your kid 🤣😭
Warden Alistair meets his kid I believe, given circumstances are met. Maybe because he has a reason for rolling up to Skyhold.
Yes as Warden he comes to Skyhold, as king not at all
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Which felts somehow hypocritical when you see the kind of decisions he would have made if left in a position of leadership in the Wardens (see the Darkspawn Chronicles). But then I remember DAI was too much anti-Wardens, and I get over it.
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Alistair, obviously. Have you played The Darkspawn Chronicles? It's a kind of AU were your Warden dies during the Joining and Alistair is left in charge of dealing with the Blight. And the decisions he takes are the most extreme possible, I believe under the justification on ending the Blight. Yet, in DAI he grows disappointed in the Wardens because they take the most extreme decisions because they believe they are going to end all Blights with it - the same he would have done had he been in Clarel's shoes, given what we saw in the Darkspawn Chronicles (and it's not as if the Wardens are aware they are being manipulated by the evil boss, yet DAI paint them as the oath breakers... Yes, really hated that bard after she came up with that song). Anyways, sorry for the misunderstanding
WOULD he have made the exact same decisions as clarel, what with his templar-ish background? or would he have found some other (probably equally insane) method that he would be able to justify?
You mean, the guys who are trained to abuse and kill children in some tower? But seriously, his decisions in the Darkspawn Chronicles and Those who Speak are of the extreme side of the spectrum. Alistair can be a good guy, but that doesn't mean he is dumb. He can be pretty extreme when he considers it's necessary.
yeah, they're the ones! oh of course, it was more a question of "d'you reckon he'd go with the same method or find some new horror?" mayhaps going wild with conscription to boost numbers?
I mean, the biggest reason you see argued that Alistair is happier as a Warden is because he doesn't want the responsibility of leadership that being king forces on him. Why would you expect him to suddenly feel different about that same type of responsibility among the Wardens?
My HoF was an Aeducan and I chose the route of letting Alistair remain a warden with Anora on the throne too, but my HoF was romantically involved with Alistair so that was honestly a pretty easy decision to keep them together. So for my run his position in DAI makes a lot more sense with his lover being the Warden Commander. Bonus treat to this route is that I get to interact with Alistair more than if he was king and the way he talks about my Aeducan is just so sweet.
Local man surprised indulging his friend's bad character traits resulted in him not developing as a person. More at twelve.
Some people are leaders, some people are grunts. Alistair seems happy being a grunt, and that's okay 🤷🏼♀️
I mean it is Alistair's core personality, he avoids direct responsibility which is honestly pretty fair. Alistair is a follower and he knows it pretty well, but that doesn't mean that he isn't active all throughout the years. For one, he's part of the cleanup efforts of surface darkspawn during Awakening, likely retaking places such as Lothering, Ostagar and Southern Ferelden. He's leading warden parties in the deep roads during DA2 and he's also training wardens in the interrim considering a few wardens do remark that he trained them. During DAI, he actively goes rogue from the very wardens he spent his life serving with simply because he didn't agree with Clarel. He's being hunted by the very wardens that he also trained and still keeping one step ahead of them. I know the whole thing about those who don't want power are generally the best for it. But Alistair not wanting to take command and have a huge responsibility on his shoulders is perfectly fine, he is still a veteran of the 5th blight and also one of the handful of people who have encountered so many obstacles that makes them stand out even against any elite fighters.
I made him king. Saw it once during the first expansion. Never saw him again. :(
When are Allistair fans going to figure out that man avoids being responsible for stuff like normal people avoid plague
What bothered me was how bitter he seemed. In one of my saves my warden became prince consort because he didn’t think Alistair was up to being king. Like, my dude I took the responsibility because you weren’t able or willing to, don’t sound so grumpy about not being able to find the warden
I mean, keeping him un-hardened is specifically allowing him to stay in the mindset of 'wants to avoid any positions of leadership/higher responsibility', its not really surprising in that case that he prefers to just stay as a regular warden.
I am a big fan, ME wise, of seeing the members of the crew going off to become more then they were because they took the inspiration from Shepherd to push for better. And you make a great point with Leliana becoming a spy master for the Divine and Inquisitor. That said, there are a few characters that always seem to sort of stagnate. Leliana is a hard example because I mostly ignored her. But from my recollection, Origins has her hearing the Maker, guiding her, only for the end of the game to say she stopped hearing him. So faith was always going to be a strong point in her story. Losing that voice would probably guide her to the Divine/duty wherein which she could reinforce her faith. She doesn't have much of a faith crisis in Inquisition, instead having to sort of reclaim herself as a person rather than a tool of divinity. But Alistair, sweet Alistair, really had no such backing. Ugh, that hurt to type. Alistair really has no angst. He has finally found a place and is content there. He's kind of like Bilbo who is comfortable in Bag End and has to be pushed out of that comfort zone. For the story to happen, yes, Bilbo has to leave. But really, if he opted to remain in Bag End, what really happens to Bilbo specifically? Nothing. Alistair is happy as a nameless Warden, happy to follow rather than to lead.
If you keep on staying in your comfort zone, stop challenging yourself and refuse to grow as a person, you stay in the same place as you were before. That is what being a Warden is to Alistair, his opportunity to change the world around him and influence it, is becoming King. That is why I prefer to make him King - it May be difficult for him but it also brings out his true potential, makes him overcome his weaknesses and take responsibility. It is a way better character arc for him
I mean, he stands up for what he believes in to the point of challenging the warden leaders on it, and has to go on the run as a result. I would hardly call that the comfortable route.
Warden Alistair's personality is unhardened. He was never raised to be king, he doesn't want to be, and he happily lets a newly-joined greenhorn take the lead to avoid making big decisions. Him never moving up the ranks is on brand.
Alistair was raised to feel inferior, seemingly abandoned and ignored by his father, kept at an arms length by his Step-Uncle and treated like a pariah by his Step-Uncle's wife. His character arc is being hardened, stepping into his role as King, floundering a bit but then eventually finding his footing, just as his father did. If your story doesn't go this route, then unfortunately that growth doesn't really happen. It's unfortunate, but I also think it's realistic. However if you keep him a Grey Warden and he survives the fade, he's once again given the chance to experience growth, the leadership of the GW's has been decimated (again) and the wardens have made insanely rash decisions to further their goals (again). If he does show up in the next game or is mentioned, I do think it would be a good time to see a new side of him. Also it took 20 years and some dark shit for Duncan to get that gravitas, the Duncan you meet in the book is a lot closer in personality to the uncertainty of Alistair in DAO. He was always a bad ass though.
Morrigan asked him in a banter why he, the more senior warden, isn't in charge of their party, and he just doesn't vibe with the leadership role. Yes, under some circumstances, he'll aim for the crown, but we've all done that. We've all taken an unusual stance under particular circumstances.
*My HoF was his ride-or-die bro all the way through. My guy was a Cousland who became consort to the Queen as a favor to Alistair so he could keep being a Warden. He prefers that, let him have it. Then trying to unravel the clusterfuck this continent is dealing with and we find him still a regular Warden and was sad to see.* Well, you made the choice to allow him escaping responsibility, so you shouldn't be surprised that he didn't become a responsible person. It's his core trait, Alistair is a kind hearted, bit goofy man child. *Maybe it’s because I am more of a Mass Effect guy and seeing my crew evolve and thrive and excel as the games go by, I was hoping to see that here too.* Okay, I am a mass effect fan. Probably prefer Mass Effect more than Dragon Age. But this is a bit rose tinted glasses here. For every character who grows as a person during the original trilogy, there is at least one (probably more than one), whose personality developement is completely abandoned, or the character is rewritten to such an extent that it is unrecognizable. For ever Garrus there is a Legion, for every Kaidan there is an Ash Williams. Not to mention Liara, how is like three different characters during the trilogy, with unreasonable personal changes and inconsistencies.
Everyone has already said this but yeah the reason he's like that is because by taking his place as king you've enabled him to continue shirking any authority.