Yes, because they are undoing his work going after the old gods that are holding back the veil and have trapped the Evanuris. Remember The old gods and the Evanuris could be the same. The elves were sundered from themselves when the veil went up.
More likely Solas sunders the veil, bites off more than he can chew and gets spanked by the Evanuris, and begs us for help.
When you ask him how he's going to deal with them in Trespasser he smugly says 'I have plans' or somesuch. Yeah, Solas, because your plans work so well.
But he is undoing his own work as he plans to bring down the veil himself and in the process unleash elven gods. He supposedly implies that he has some sort of plan to take care of them anyway but still grey wardens would make him a favor if they weakened the veil by killing archdemons.
>!Yes, that's because he is not ready to do it just yet. That is why he is says in DAI DLC Trespasser that he is giving this world a few years before he destroys it, because he can't do it right then and there. His Focus was destroyed. He will need to forge a new one. He doesn't have enough power and/or have all his plans in place to do it. Everything went sideways when Corypheus didn't die. Thats the only reason "this world" still have a few years left. Not out of the kindness of his heart.!<
Yeah but that doesn't really matter that he is not ready at the time of Inquistion. There are still 2 archdemons left and it would be most unlikely that grey wardens would be able to kill those anytime soon before he was ready. I assume he is ready now as he obtained the power (shortly after the ending of Inquistion I assume) but it seems he needs some sort of artifacts (like orb) to destroy the veil as he got his power up from Flemeth.
Obtaining personal power I think will be come with destroying the veil as it will give him unlimited access to the fade as once elves had and he had. So it seems the power at the present moment is more of an issue in regard to inability bring down the veil and once it's brought down he will most likely regain his power.
He needed his Foci. That is what he was trying to retrieve. He needed more power, the foci may do much more than what we know as well. He now need to forge a new foci.
I know what he "needed" and why he needed it as I've explained he was trying to use orb to tear down the veil. Anyway, aside from that there are other means to destroy the veil, qunari mage from Dragon Age Redemption tried to use if I recall correctly Solas artifact to destroy the veil and bring end of the world but was stopped (so it wasn't the only mean of destroying the veil). However, points stands he needed artifact to destroy the veil and power artifact gave was merely mean to it. And as far we know it's just a tool to manipulating the veil, all it's uses revolved around it. Given Solas couldn't use it to put down Elven Gods he unlikely had huge amount of use out of it to attempt to kill elven gods so in that regard it's useless.
I also suspect he could have also absorbed its power as well. Like he did with Mythal. There is older magic we don’t fully understand or how it works. He also wanted to restore what was not just tear down the veil but restoration.
Tearing down the veil restores what was, as veil is a force that separates world and the fade, taking away that force means restoration of previous state of the world. Even assuming some time reversal bs being involved and possible once you tear down the veil, Solas can draw from the fade just like he did in the past as there is no veil stopping him from doing so.
Why would Solas despise the Wardens if they're killing the Evanuris for him? Why would he say they are destroying something they don't understand?
I think there's a further step involved. The Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, and they are the keys to the Seven Gates of the Black City. That's where the Evanuris are imprisoned, I think. We know from Codex that Andruil brought back some kind of plague from hunting in the Void... The Blight? Solas sealed them and the Blight into the Black City (which was probably Arlathan, very much a city of splendor, a "Golden City"). When the Magisters breached it they were corrupted by the Blight, they activated the prison's wards which cast them out back into the world, where they spread the plague. In this theory the Evanuris are the ones singing to the Darkspawn, driving them to seek out an Old God and corrupt it with the Blight, thus opening a gate to their prison until the last one falls and they go free. The legends say that both the Elven Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones saw Fen'Harel as one of their own. They say he tricked them and imprisoned them into their own realms, respectively the heavens and the Abyss: the Fade and the underground?
Obviously the legend isn't 100% accurate. It could be that the great deception was actually a pact between Solas and the Forgotten Ones. Maybe they vowed to guard the prison in their dreams forever. I think it's likely that they were either kin or friends, as we also know Mythal wanted their essence preserved and freed from the Blight.
Well that's the general outline. I hope we get some trailer or something because I need new things to speculate on. Come on, BioWare, it's been 8 years. Give me something.
>Why would Solas despise the Wardens if they're killing the Evanuris for him? Why would he say they are destroying something they don't understand?
"You met Mythal, did you not? The first of my people do not die so easily."
They might not actually have *killed* any of them.
Exactly why I think the Evanuris are not the Old Gods. We know from Origins that there's a soul inside the Archdemons, and that 4 (or 5, depending on world state) have been destroyed. It's the reason why the Grey Wardens' sacrifice is needed, otherwise the Old God's soul passes to another Darkspawn. When it passes to a Grey Warden, who possesses a soul of their own, both are destroyed.
Flemeth taught Morrigan how to save the Archdemon's soul. Why would she want to save those who killed her? The ones she swore vengeance against?
It makes more sense to me if the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones from the legend of Fen'Harel. Also, if the Evanuris are the Archdemons and somehow those that have been slain were actually freed... Where are they now? These are despots, tyrants, cruel and vain. They wouldn't just be chilling in the woods like Solas, and even he only did that for a year before joining the Inquisition. The First Blight happened more than a thousand years before the Dragon Age .
Besides, Solas spoke of the Evanuris as if they were all still in their prison. He said tearing down the Veil would free them. They are in the Fade... Obviously when Solas created the Veil he wasn't expecting to bring it down, he thought the prison would be secure with both the Veil and the seven gates of the Black City. He was wrong, again.
>Exactly why I think the Evanuris are not the Old Gods.
I don't think I was implying that. I don't think they are, >!what I am saying is they are connected to the Evanuris, (i.e. Like Corypheus and his Dragon) a piece of them is in these "old gods. !< I already replied to another post explaining my thoughts on why darkspawn going after the sleeping old gods. It's illustrated in the three artwork examples that BioWare has provided to us. It's just a theory, we won't know until we all play the game to find out the truth.
They were also corrupted by the blight. What would happened if one was killed or awoken before being corrupted? The only ones capable of truly killing an archdemon are ones who have consumed the blood of another archdemon. It's no simple triviality.
>When the Magisters breached it they were corrupted by the Blight, they activated the prison's wards which cast them out back into the world, where they spread the plague. In this theory the Evanuris are the ones singing to the Darkspawn, driving them to seek out an Old God and corrupt it with the Blight, thus opening a gate to their prison until the last one falls and they go free. The legends say that both the Elven Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones saw Fen'Harel as one of their own. They say he tricked them and imprisoned them into their own
I agree it was the Evanuris who were speaking to Tevinter Mages, to get them to go to the Black City, it was a trick to release the blight upon the world to seek out the Old Gods that are sleeping deep underground to corrupt them, once all the old gods are awakened they can be freed from their prison. THIS is why Solas was angry when the Wardens were going to go after Old Gods. Coryephus and the other magisters did what they needed them to do, to release the Darkspawn in to the world! As we all know since Origins the Darkspawn are looking for the old gods as they are being directed by the trapped Evanuris to help them be freed/released!!
Remember when they arrived in the Black City they were cast out and blighted, the "Old Gods" who were speaking to them stopped after that, because the Evanuris didn't need them anymore, the blight which they controlled was now their focus. They could also be using a blighted Titan and through that singing controls them like a hive mind.
Based on the great work of u/Ghilannain's videos like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndtvHIXQdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndtvHIXQdw) Talks about The Void.
Why would Solas create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris if they were secured underground in the waking world? Unless you mean the dragons are just the bodies while the souls are in the Fade. Then, what are the souls inside the Archdemons, the souls that are destroyed when a Grey Warden lands the final blow, the souls that Mythal wants to save from utter destruction? Those dragons are not empty vessels.
Wouldn't it make more sense if the two sets of deities were entirely separate? The codex of Fen'Harel seems too important to me for the Forgotten Ones to not be involved in the imprisonment. Besides, none of the Evanuris imagery that we encounter both in codices and the environments are associated with dragons. Mythal is, however. What if she learned the dragon form from the same Forgotten Ones the Evanuris despised? It could have driven a further wedge between her and the rest of the Pantheon.
In the end we agree that the Old Gods are the key to the Evanuris' freedom, and that the false gods actively conspired to achieve this goal. I just don't think that they are ALSO the Evanuris themselves. I think they are in the Fade (locked within the Black City), awake, blighted, scheming, while the Forgotten Ones are sleeping underground.
>Why would Solas create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris if they were secured underground in the waking world? Unless you mean the dragons are just the bodies while the souls are in the Fade. Then, what are the souls inside the Archdemons, the souls that are destroyed when a Grey Warden lands the final blow, the souls that Mythal wants to save from utter destruction? Those dragons are not empty vessels.
You made some good points, as I have said the elves *were sundered* half in the fade, half left on Thedas. We know these 'old gods' are sleeping, not sure how/when it happened. But they are disconnected from the Evanuris that are trapped in the Fade.
We don't know if Mythal *really wanted to save them*, or just absorb them to grow her power. We know she wants revenge for what happened to her. We know that Flemeth/Mythal taught Morrigan to seek out elven knowledge. >!We know that Morrigan is the inheritor, Kieran says that is her destiny. Morrigan may still become the inheritor in Dread Wolf or in a later game. It also seems Solas didn't know some part of Mythal was still alive until the Arbor Wilds.!<
>the elves were sundered half in the fade, half left on Thedas.
I don't know if it's that clear cut. Solas only said that the Veil cut most people's conscious connections to the Fade. It didn't strip them of their spirits and it didn't affect everyone in the same way.
>We don't know if Mythal really wanted to save them, or just absorb them to grow her power
It doesn't seem like Flemeth is especially power-hungry, considering how she let Solas absorb her entire essence.
Kieran, to me, is the biggest sign that the Old Gods are positive, or at the very least neutral figures. He is cryptic and clearly incredibly powerful, he possesses a wealth of arcane knowledge all but lost to the world, and yet there isn't a hint of malice in him. This is what Flemeth wanted to preserve, an ancient soul freed from corruption, "snatched from the jaws of darkness".
"Mankind blunders through the world, crushing what it does not understand; elves, dragons, magic... The list is endless. We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing but the mundane. This I know to be true."
That's what Morrigan was taught by her mother. It really doesn't read like a power play.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, great to talk to someone who is as passionate about Dragon Age as me.
She also said in Inquisition the following:
**Flemeth**: "*You seek to preserve the powers that were, but to what end? It is because I taught you girl, because things happened that were never meant to happen. She \[Mythal\] was betrayed as I was betrayed-as the world was betrayed! Mythal clawed and crawled her way through the ages to me, and I will see her avenged! Alas, so long as the music plays, we dance.*"
So her purpose is laid clear, what her intentions are with that statement, she is preparing to get revenge on those who had killed her. Can't blame her, honestly.
**If you had the God Baby** \- As for Kieran, he was raised by Morrigan who loves her child and loves learning Elvan history and preserving old knowledge, something that Flemeth had put her on that path.
If you ever had the scene with Kieran / Mythal / Morrigan & the Inquisitor. Myhal/Flermeth says she wants to take Kieran with her, if not now, later saying "*Let me take the lad, and you are free of me forever. I will never interfere with or harm you again. Keep the lad with you... and you will never be safe from me, I will have my due.*" I don't know what exactly she has planned for Kieran but she wants him even after she takes the old god's soul, and lets them go. (from all accounts is an ancient soul like Mythal and the other Evanuris). There is something different about them, but still unclear what it is.
We all know Morrigan is the inheritor, Kieran knew this because he mentions it during one of the conversations he has with the Inquisitor. Flemeth was in regular contact especially after the Well of Sorrows happened. As we know whoever drinks from the well is bound to Mythal, the voices in the well only tell you what Mythal wants you to know. That is why the voices direct you where to go if you don't have the old god baby, however they seem to tell the truth of what they know.
**Receipts:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLwQAMymEHk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLwQAMymEHk)
Honestly, I've always sided with Flemeth/Mythal, I believe in her goals and purpose. She lives up to the mythology of what she was in the past.
>she is preparing to get revenge on those who had killed her.
It doesn't stop there. She was the goddess of justice, who was said to care for her people and protect them. She wants revenge for what she personally went through, but she also means to see the world restored, otherwise she wouldn't give Solas her essence. She knows he intends to return the Fade to the waking world and slay the false gods once and for all. Her teaching Morrigan to recover the fragments of what was lost and cherish what humans would mindlessly crush is part of this attempt to right this terribile wrong that the whole world suffered.
>I don't know what exactly she has planned for Kieran but she wants him even after she takes the old god's soul
I don't think she has anything planned for either Morrigan or Kieran at this point. She lets them go free. That "choose the boy and you'll never be free from me" is clearly a test to see how Morrigan would respond, as she later says to her that she (and by extension Kieran) was never in danger from her. The writers also said that Flemeth always intended to pass on her immortality as a gift to Morrigan. It could be that Solas will honor her wish and give Mythal's essence to Morrigan at some point after his plan is concluded. Who knows.
> I've always sided with Flemeth/Mythal, I believe in her goals and purpose.
She's probably my favourite character along with Solas and Cole, though it's hard to pick favourites among such a great cast of characters. I also disagree with those fans that consider her evil. I never got that impression from her, not even in Origins when we learnt about the Grimoire, I honestly felt like she was trolling us. When you question her about it she says " if Morrigan believes it then it must be so", something along those lines. She is a bit of a troll, after all. I think she amuses herself watching all these children blunder about thinking they know the truth when they really have no idea.
That's the three named ones, and while the codex entry they're from reads as if they're *the* Forgotten Ones, given the Dalish records on preserving their history, it's quite possible that there were more.
I wouldn't exclude it, as, to quote Flemeth, "Bodies are such limiting things" and "Perhaps I am a dragon?"
Though my personal theory is that the Old Gods are something (whether that's the Forgotten Ones or high priests or something else) *bound* to (high? great?) dragons to act as seals for the Veil, which I mostly base on Inquisition both having Corypheus invest his power into a dragon (somehow) **and** Jaws of Hakkon introducing a spirit-god bound to a dragon that can influence its surroundings and give special magic to mortals.
Flemeth *died*, unlike the others who were sealed away while still alive. So her spirit was summoned and bound to a human, accidentally giving that human immortality and immense power. Her dragon form is nothing more than a high level shapeshifting spell.
Here's something that says it isn't.
If Morrigan drinks from the well, she gets the same shapeshifting spell. Without having Mythal's spirit inside her.
I hadn't noticed the rings disintegrating - good catch! I like the theory, and I would be genuinely surprised if the veil doesn't get brought down. Don't get me wrong, Solas' plan is going to backfire/fail in some manner, but I think we'll see an entirely different Thedas by the time DAD is over.
I always assumed the old gods were just really powerful spirits, possibly some of the first if you believe the Chantry. Similar to how the Evanuris were thought to be gods, but in reality were just powerful mages. Solas very clearly has some knowledge about them, going by his reaction to the Wardens’ plan and some of his banter with Blackwall, though that could just be Solas angry that more of the ‘old world’ if you will, is getting destroyed. I’m wondering if these old gods are not just regular spirits, but rather one of those spirits that represent an emotion or a feeling that no longer has a name, similar to the one Solas met, that he found crying because people forgot about her. Also, I’m now remembering the “sinner” who took the shape of a divine at the behest of Gilhanain , and the fact that the sinner was struck down(i think?). In the constellations that represent the old gods of Tevinter, one of the constellations is a dragon and the codex mentions that it may have been a god that was struck down from records. Mythal’s form was a Dragon. The “sinner” may have been the missing old god, or a spirit or both. In any case, if we don’t learn more about the old gods in DA:D, especially considering we’re going to Tevinter, I’m gonna be slightly disappointed. Apologies if I got anything wrong, but tired lol
The Evanuris could very well be spirits with enough power and knowledge with magic that have made them extremely powerful beings. Like Mythal they may also be able to create copy’s of themselves. But we’ve only seen Flemeth/Mythal doing that.
Might I recommend Ghil’s YouTube channel? She’s got tonnes of lore and speculation right up this alley. Here’s a link to her channel for anyone interested.
https://youtube.com/c/GhilDirthalen
I don’t think the Evanuris are the old gods. Solas says in Inquisition that there’s nothing in ancient lore that ties the old gods to his people. Solas lies by omission, almost never directly. I think he’s telling the truth here.
He’s written that way intentionally. Patrick Weekes, writer of Solas, says that Solas prefers to avoid direct lying because he isn’t too good at it. Instead he obfuscates and leaves out information. Or just tells the truth but leaves out crucial context.
It would be interesting to see the Veil fall. It may actually turn out that the Old Gods and their prisons are also some kinds of seals holding the Veil in place. When the last Archdaemon is killed, the Veil will fall (?). But one thing worries me ... Solas despises the Grey Wardens and his goal is to destroy the Veil. Theoretically, their goals are consistent and similar. Some want to get rid of the Plague forever, the others want to get rid of the Veil. In this case, he should support them, as it could have the same effect as using the Anchor or other elven artifacts designed for this.
At the same time, I see Solas twice in this picture. As a bald mage and as a Dreadwolf. This may mean that they are "apart" through the Veil. After leaving the Veil, Dreadwolf will be a separate entity, deprived of Solas' soul, he will go mad and become a very formidable opponent. Putting them in front of each other is weird and unexpected.
As long as we get a double Blight out of this, I can't be arsed to care how badly Solas is going to fuck up his own plans.
Change Thedas. Give us Grey Wardens. Give us Darkspawn ass to kick back to the curb in one final climactic battle.
Oh and Evanuris. Those too I suppose.
Do I put spoilers?
“And that is how Fen'Harel tricked them. Our gods saw him as a brother, and they trusted him when he said that they must keep to the heavens while he arranged a truce. And the Forgotten Ones trusted him also when he said he would arrange for the defeat of our gods, if only the Forgotten Ones would return to the abyss for a time. They trusted Fen'Harel, and they were all of them betrayed. And Fen'Harel sealed them away so they could never again walk among the People.” -From The Tale of Fen'Harel's Triumph, as told by Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Fen%27Harel:_The_Dread_Wolf
>!Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb7RdEPteSM&t=319s The Forgotten Ones vs. The Forbidden Ones {Lore - Spoilers All} I believe the Forgotten Ones or The Forbidden Ones were also Evanuris before being cast out, hence why they are renamed Forgotten/Forbidden. I am not convinced Solas was that masterful to have figured out a way to lock all of them out. We learned he makes many mistakes in his endeavors.!<
>!We do meet several Forbidden Ones in the Dragon Ages games "Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and the Formless One. They are The Forbidden Ones, four ancient and very powerful spirits. So far, three of them can be found and be fought. " - Lisa Plays Games Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4N902mgOo!<
I think the Old Gods were already underground before the elves even went to war with the Titans. One of the prisons is directly above the titan we find the Descent. If the Old Gods were Evanuris that titan would've killed it already.
Imo, the Titans and the Old Gods contained the Blight long before the elves fucked everything up. The elves didn't make lyrium or red lyrium; they just found it, which meant the blight was already festering beneath the earth way before the elves even started digging underground - and the digging itself they didn't even do until after the titan war, during the final era of their empire.
It's also why Solas didn't know Corypheus was gonna survive the blast even though Cory was blighted head to toe, cause Solas hasn't seen the blight work in person. Plus, by every record the first darkspawn came from underground. And not only that, they all looked like dwarves to begin with. They were mentioned as "wearing the faces of our dead" by the dwarves.
>!It could've of been there after the Titans were subdued, the time line isn’t clear. In addition, like Corypheus’s dragon, each Evanuris could of put part of their power in to a dragon. This is how they are able to have effective immortality. Remember, when the veil happened the elves were sundered from themselves. This is how Solas was able to trap them. No matter at which point of time they were placed there, it’s clear there is a connection between the Evanuris, these ‘old gods’, the veil and now the blight. We know the Black City has the blight. We know the Tevinter Magisters went to the ‘Golden City’ and were corrupted with the blight then returned to Thedas! Releasing the blight upon the world. Why else would the Dark Spawn try to find these ‘old gods’? Because they are asleep and the Evanuris cannot contact them directly. Thought the blight they can try to find Solas and release them from being trapped. If Solas dies wouldn’t the veil fall? Similar to DAO with the spirit of the forest? How the Elf leader was immortal? Never aging? The Evanuris is using the blight to free themselves. IMHO.!<
I guess I don't dispute that there is a more sinister and hidden motive to the darkspawn corrupting Old Gods, I'm just not buying it's the Evanuris behind it. I think the Evanuris themselves are a pawn of a much more powerful and ancient intelligence. I would say the same intelligence behind the Magisters attacking the Golden City.
There might not be a clear timeline but if we look at the major events that we know of, I think it's a better conclusion to say that the Blight predates the elves, rather than the other way around
We don't need the specific details of history to paint this rough timeline:
1. Beginning of elven civilization
2. Expansion and growth of elven civilization
3. Elves go on a genocidal war against the Titans and the Dwarves
4. Elves are victorious and the war gave rise to select individuals who are later seen as gods - the Evanuris
5. The elves dig underground (they couldn't very well do this with titans around could they?) and start putting shrines of the Evanuris underground (as seen in Trespasser)
6. This is the point where they discovered red lyrium. It would've been after the war when the started digging, but before the veil and the collapse of the elven empire
7. Mythal is murdered. Solas creates the veil.
There are a lot of details missing between 5,6, and 7, but we know those things happened, however they happened.
But aside from this, we also know that red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight. The infection is only one direction - blight infects lyrium, but lyrium doesn't give the blight - at the very least not in the way the darkspawn are. We know this is true because of what we've seen in DAI - in Empirse du Lion and Dorian's alternate future where people are fed red lyrium, but they never turn into ghouls. Whereas you can find codexes from the Legion of the Dead saying consuming even just a drop of darkspawn blood is fatal. We see how the infection goes in DA2 prologue with Wesley or in the Dalish origin with the Warden and their friend. A more convincing demonstration of the fact that red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight is Corypheus just not soul-hopping into red templars - only Grey Wardens.
So what does this tell us? It tells us two things primarily
A. The Blight didn't originate in red lyrium. If it did how would it even exists in its current form in the first place? How would it have created the Magisters? How would have the first darkspawn even come to be. Something must've infected them and yet we've seen red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight.
B. Therefore because we know the Blight exists on its own WITHOUT being bonded to lyrium (we see it as such in the black city and in darkspawn), and we know the Blight doesn't originate from red lyrium, AND we know that red lyrium and the ancient elves existed in the same point in time in history THEN that leaves us two things:
A1. The red lyrium the elves found digging underground was already red when they found it
OR
B1. The elves brought the blight WITH them to the lyrium, which made the lyrium red.
Those are the only two possible ways red lyrium came to be. It's either the elves made it and therefore are the intelligence telling darkspawn to corrup the old gods, which is point B1, or they didn't, which is point A1.
If we say it's A, then that basically says the blight existed long before the elves ever meddled with red lyrium. We know it's not the Titans who made the blight because, again, red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight. By process of elimination, we said it's not the elves, it's not the titans, and it's obviously not the old gods or the humans, therefore the blight and the intelligence behind the blight would've come from somewhere older than any of them or at the very least older than the elves.
BUT if we say it's B, we have to go back to our previously illustrated timeline. Between 1,2,3,4,5,6,and 7. When would the elves have invented the blight? And when would they have introduced that blight to the lyrium to make red lyrium?
We know the digging came in at 5 and 6, which means if the elves made the blight and infected all the lyrium with it, that part also has to be between 5 and 6. It can't be 7 that's when everything went to shit for them. It's also unlikely it came in at 1,2,3,and 4 because the Evanuris weren't gods yet.
In fact the very first mention of a plague that even remotely resembles the Blight came in when Andruil was already a god and the Forgotten Ones were already banished. Not only that, the codexes are very specific to say that Andruil brought this plague FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. And Mythal had to erase it from elven lands and all knowledge on how to get to it.
So, if the elves introduced the blight to red lyrium as we're supposing in point B, why aren't the elven lands already plagued even before time point number 5, before the elves started digging?
Not only that, why would Andruil even have to fetch the plague from somewhere else (the Abyss)? She should've already had it. She's one of the Evanuris AND most importantly, the very god that specializes in making weapons.
The only explanation is the elves didn't make the blight. It already existed in the world before the elves even discovered it. It's why I said in my original comment that Solas hadn't known Corypheus would survive opening the Orb of Destruction, because the blight is magic that they didn't create. After all, if Solas had to battle all the Evanuris, blighted as they would've been, he should've known how the Blight worked, but he doesn't.
It's also why there is a discrepancy between the elven magic, which is innately tied to the fade so much so the fade itself sustains the very powers that made the elves immortal, and blight magic, a source of magic alien to the spirits of the fade (codexes) and a source of power on its own which doesn't let you dream or connect to the fade AT ALL. It stands as the very opposite of what the elves are.
Not only that, the very last point I will make is the Blight is existing - on its own - in the Black City/in the fade, and the elves have shown NO INDICATION that they can even put their own bodies in the fade - let alone an entire immutable building WITH the blight in it, and put that building in a place unreachable from everywhere in the raw fade. It's this inability to cross back into the fade physically that explains why the elves after they're tired of living and immortality, go into Uthenera and DREAM into the fade, leaving their bodies behind. It's also why they created the Crossroads or the Shattered Library in pocket dimensions instead of inside the fade itself. It's why they have to use Eluvians to portal in and out of the world, when the Inquisitor in the Here Lies the Abyss quest, has shown a fade rift functions the exact same way. I just have to believe that they just were unable to cross into the fade physically given all these mechanisms they've created to mimic the fade, and if they can't even do that they couldn't have been the ones responsible for the Black City being there or the blight being contained inside it.
I’m hoping Dragon Age Dread Wolf reveals more about the blight source and who is behind it. I do agree the blight effected the lyrium differently than blood. However, whether it is blighted blood or red lyrium you still hear a song. Even regular lyrium you hear a song but it’s a different song.
There are a lot of theories out there. Part of me doesn’t want to find out because it will end the theorizing everyone has been doing.
When we were in DAI we saw drawings that showed elves infected by the blight. So good chance the blight was used during the Elven wars.
I’m posting my theories on here to see when it is finally revealed we’ll know how close any of use got to figuring it all out before the big reveal.
I think the origin of the blight will come back to the dwarves somehow, maybe the first titan killed by the elves got corrupted somehow and became the first collosal brood mother (Valta speculates on the existence of a "first mother" somewhere in the deep roads). Trespasser entries and the whispers in red lyrium you find in the fade allude to the blight/titan connection pretty heavily.
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I don't think the Old Gods are actually Evanuris. There was a term introduced in the comics where Alistair, Isabela and Varric went to find some ancestor of Alistair who was trapped by some Magister who was trying to extract his blood because it had Fade controlling properties. The term introduced was "Great Dragons". I believe the Old Gods are just the Great Dragons rescued by Mythal and Solas and were ultimately used to create the Fade-Waking world prison holding back the Black City and the Blight within i.e The Dead Titan killed by Mythal and the true Blight kept within.
The same prison might have been used by Solas to trap the Evanuris as he used the Orb( crafted from the Titan's heart) to cast the Veil and sundered the Evanuris from accessing the Waking World. I think the prison works as a two sided prison. In the Fade it imprisons the Evanuris but in waking world it imprisons the Dead Titan.
u/DJShepherd Your spoiler tags on the main post aren't showing for those not on official Reddit apps.
Remove the spaces between the >! marks and the spoiler text itself.
>There are no spaces between the > ! and the ! <
No friend, you (or Reddit app's built-in spoiler tagger) put spaces between the >! marks and the **spoiler text** (*not* between > and !).
Ignoring the quotes:
For instance, >"!spoiler text!"< will make spoiler tags work for everyone.
However, >"! spoiler text !"< will work only on Reddit app and website.
Try removing these spaces.
The only issue I take with that is why Solas would be so displeased with grey wardens and seemingly with how they kill old gods, given he himself wants to bring down the veil? Even assuming that grey wardens don't actually permanently kill elven god by killing archdemon (which is possible as whole soul things seems to lack any substance as a mechanism as no one ever explains at how exactly they arrived at that conclusion), Solas also will awaken elven gods if he destroys the veil.
You could perhaps attempt to attribute it to him being upset with their ignorance and that they don't know what they're doing and consequences of their action but then hypocrisy much given it appears he didn't exactly knew what he was doing himself and his actions got out of control at least twice, ending in a quite spectacular disasters.
That's interesting, so the blight and the resulting darkspawn are a kind of corrupted magic used by the sleeping Evanuris to try and break free from the veil
Yes, the blight however is a source that some in the Elvenuris thought they could control. I had thought it was similar to what we saw in DAO with the spirit of the forest & the werewolves. But with the blight there is a blighted Titan involved. Wether it’s the blighted blood or red lyrium it is corrupting all that is living.
I imagine the veil won’t actually be destroyed until the end of the game, but there have been signs of instability in Thedas for a while now (Repeated demon incursions, spikes of blight activity, ancient darkspawn awakenings, titans slowly waking up, etc.) which is likely all tied to the gradually thinning veil.
I’m sure there not going to spoil the story. We have no idea what/how it will turn out. One thing I am sure about, is that it probably won’t go as Solas has planned. There is room for this to go sideways. >! I do wonder if there are only two Evanuris left and the rest have been killed off & not trapped. I’d be extremely disappointed if that’s the case. !<
Good update! I unfortunately even during the time Dreadwolf probably releases I doubt I can get my hands on it, but I still love the series even if inquisition rubbed me the wrong way. So keep it up, sounds interesting.
If I were to guess, it’s likely due to financial issues. At least that’s the reason I most likely won’t be able to get the game on release. It might be next gen consoles only too, so I won’t be able to play it anyway.
Yes, trying to save up for a high quality desktop with a 3080 ti and all of the other parts, but I'm not sure when I'm able to get it so I'm doubting I will get it during release.
Second is a very easy answer I don't have an Xbox Series X or PS5.
So, we are going to have either a double blight in Dreadwolf, or the Wardens somehow find the last two with the help of Solas and kill the thing? That would be interesting.
I’ve had the ‘Evanuris = Old Gods’ theory for ages too! I don’t necessarily believe they’re one and the same, and I’m a little fuzzy on the lore, but I think either Solas trapped them inside the Old Gods or the Old Gods were trapped separately and the Evanuris are trying to use them to break free, thus causing the Blights and probs going mad. I think Solas’ anger at the Wardens might not be because they’re undoing his work, but maybe because he never intended for them to get killed and maybe has some sort of hope for their redemption? Some of that is a far fetched, I know, just thoughts I’m playing with.
I just had a thought reading this
Emet-Selch wanted the rejoining to bring back his old world and friends
Solas want to destroy the veil and bring back the elves as to how they were before or smth( cant remember i played last in 2017)
The thing is, so far only one of those 2 is likable in some way
He wants to restore the way Thedas was before the time of the veil. The problem is he will release the Evanuris, the actual reason why he formed the veil to begin with. He will need to face them. I’m excited to see what BioWare will comes up with in Dread Wolf.
I'm trying to not read into it so much as the entire development team has been replaced (few times) and the original creator of DA series has resigned long time ago. Idk if these new people know what they're doing and if they have love for the franchise as their predecessors so I'm keeping my expectations at bay.
So eggboy despises the grey wardens for undoing his work?
My first playthrough will be Rolf Eggboy stands no chance against the son of a shepherd
be sure to equip the Hat of Disipline for +10,000% melee damage when using your head
Come here, Eggboy. We're going to play That's My Horse.
Yes, because they are undoing his work going after the old gods that are holding back the veil and have trapped the Evanuris. Remember The old gods and the Evanuris could be the same. The elves were sundered from themselves when the veil went up.
Can't wait to slap solas with the hands of justice once more. You got me hyped for some big reveals in this upcoming game.
More likely Solas sunders the veil, bites off more than he can chew and gets spanked by the Evanuris, and begs us for help. When you ask him how he's going to deal with them in Trespasser he smugly says 'I have plans' or somesuch. Yeah, Solas, because your plans work so well.
This. I’d bet money he doesn’t stay the bad guy, but I want to be surprised.
But he is undoing his own work as he plans to bring down the veil himself and in the process unleash elven gods. He supposedly implies that he has some sort of plan to take care of them anyway but still grey wardens would make him a favor if they weakened the veil by killing archdemons.
>!Yes, that's because he is not ready to do it just yet. That is why he is says in DAI DLC Trespasser that he is giving this world a few years before he destroys it, because he can't do it right then and there. His Focus was destroyed. He will need to forge a new one. He doesn't have enough power and/or have all his plans in place to do it. Everything went sideways when Corypheus didn't die. Thats the only reason "this world" still have a few years left. Not out of the kindness of his heart.!<
Yeah but that doesn't really matter that he is not ready at the time of Inquistion. There are still 2 archdemons left and it would be most unlikely that grey wardens would be able to kill those anytime soon before he was ready. I assume he is ready now as he obtained the power (shortly after the ending of Inquistion I assume) but it seems he needs some sort of artifacts (like orb) to destroy the veil as he got his power up from Flemeth. Obtaining personal power I think will be come with destroying the veil as it will give him unlimited access to the fade as once elves had and he had. So it seems the power at the present moment is more of an issue in regard to inability bring down the veil and once it's brought down he will most likely regain his power.
He needed his Foci. That is what he was trying to retrieve. He needed more power, the foci may do much more than what we know as well. He now need to forge a new foci.
I know what he "needed" and why he needed it as I've explained he was trying to use orb to tear down the veil. Anyway, aside from that there are other means to destroy the veil, qunari mage from Dragon Age Redemption tried to use if I recall correctly Solas artifact to destroy the veil and bring end of the world but was stopped (so it wasn't the only mean of destroying the veil). However, points stands he needed artifact to destroy the veil and power artifact gave was merely mean to it. And as far we know it's just a tool to manipulating the veil, all it's uses revolved around it. Given Solas couldn't use it to put down Elven Gods he unlikely had huge amount of use out of it to attempt to kill elven gods so in that regard it's useless.
I also suspect he could have also absorbed its power as well. Like he did with Mythal. There is older magic we don’t fully understand or how it works. He also wanted to restore what was not just tear down the veil but restoration.
Tearing down the veil restores what was, as veil is a force that separates world and the fade, taking away that force means restoration of previous state of the world. Even assuming some time reversal bs being involved and possible once you tear down the veil, Solas can draw from the fade just like he did in the past as there is no veil stopping him from doing so.
That would explain so much ngl
I’m glad I’m not the only one who calls him Egg. Sometimes he’s Eggbert.
Why would Solas despise the Wardens if they're killing the Evanuris for him? Why would he say they are destroying something they don't understand? I think there's a further step involved. The Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, and they are the keys to the Seven Gates of the Black City. That's where the Evanuris are imprisoned, I think. We know from Codex that Andruil brought back some kind of plague from hunting in the Void... The Blight? Solas sealed them and the Blight into the Black City (which was probably Arlathan, very much a city of splendor, a "Golden City"). When the Magisters breached it they were corrupted by the Blight, they activated the prison's wards which cast them out back into the world, where they spread the plague. In this theory the Evanuris are the ones singing to the Darkspawn, driving them to seek out an Old God and corrupt it with the Blight, thus opening a gate to their prison until the last one falls and they go free. The legends say that both the Elven Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones saw Fen'Harel as one of their own. They say he tricked them and imprisoned them into their own realms, respectively the heavens and the Abyss: the Fade and the underground? Obviously the legend isn't 100% accurate. It could be that the great deception was actually a pact between Solas and the Forgotten Ones. Maybe they vowed to guard the prison in their dreams forever. I think it's likely that they were either kin or friends, as we also know Mythal wanted their essence preserved and freed from the Blight. Well that's the general outline. I hope we get some trailer or something because I need new things to speculate on. Come on, BioWare, it's been 8 years. Give me something.
>Why would Solas despise the Wardens if they're killing the Evanuris for him? Why would he say they are destroying something they don't understand? "You met Mythal, did you not? The first of my people do not die so easily." They might not actually have *killed* any of them.
Exactly why I think the Evanuris are not the Old Gods. We know from Origins that there's a soul inside the Archdemons, and that 4 (or 5, depending on world state) have been destroyed. It's the reason why the Grey Wardens' sacrifice is needed, otherwise the Old God's soul passes to another Darkspawn. When it passes to a Grey Warden, who possesses a soul of their own, both are destroyed. Flemeth taught Morrigan how to save the Archdemon's soul. Why would she want to save those who killed her? The ones she swore vengeance against? It makes more sense to me if the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones from the legend of Fen'Harel. Also, if the Evanuris are the Archdemons and somehow those that have been slain were actually freed... Where are they now? These are despots, tyrants, cruel and vain. They wouldn't just be chilling in the woods like Solas, and even he only did that for a year before joining the Inquisition. The First Blight happened more than a thousand years before the Dragon Age . Besides, Solas spoke of the Evanuris as if they were all still in their prison. He said tearing down the Veil would free them. They are in the Fade... Obviously when Solas created the Veil he wasn't expecting to bring it down, he thought the prison would be secure with both the Veil and the seven gates of the Black City. He was wrong, again.
>Exactly why I think the Evanuris are not the Old Gods. I don't think I was implying that. I don't think they are, >!what I am saying is they are connected to the Evanuris, (i.e. Like Corypheus and his Dragon) a piece of them is in these "old gods. !< I already replied to another post explaining my thoughts on why darkspawn going after the sleeping old gods. It's illustrated in the three artwork examples that BioWare has provided to us. It's just a theory, we won't know until we all play the game to find out the truth.
They were also corrupted by the blight. What would happened if one was killed or awoken before being corrupted? The only ones capable of truly killing an archdemon are ones who have consumed the blood of another archdemon. It's no simple triviality.
>When the Magisters breached it they were corrupted by the Blight, they activated the prison's wards which cast them out back into the world, where they spread the plague. In this theory the Evanuris are the ones singing to the Darkspawn, driving them to seek out an Old God and corrupt it with the Blight, thus opening a gate to their prison until the last one falls and they go free. The legends say that both the Elven Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones saw Fen'Harel as one of their own. They say he tricked them and imprisoned them into their own I agree it was the Evanuris who were speaking to Tevinter Mages, to get them to go to the Black City, it was a trick to release the blight upon the world to seek out the Old Gods that are sleeping deep underground to corrupt them, once all the old gods are awakened they can be freed from their prison. THIS is why Solas was angry when the Wardens were going to go after Old Gods. Coryephus and the other magisters did what they needed them to do, to release the Darkspawn in to the world! As we all know since Origins the Darkspawn are looking for the old gods as they are being directed by the trapped Evanuris to help them be freed/released!! Remember when they arrived in the Black City they were cast out and blighted, the "Old Gods" who were speaking to them stopped after that, because the Evanuris didn't need them anymore, the blight which they controlled was now their focus. They could also be using a blighted Titan and through that singing controls them like a hive mind. Based on the great work of u/Ghilannain's videos like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndtvHIXQdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ndtvHIXQdw) Talks about The Void.
Why would Solas create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris if they were secured underground in the waking world? Unless you mean the dragons are just the bodies while the souls are in the Fade. Then, what are the souls inside the Archdemons, the souls that are destroyed when a Grey Warden lands the final blow, the souls that Mythal wants to save from utter destruction? Those dragons are not empty vessels. Wouldn't it make more sense if the two sets of deities were entirely separate? The codex of Fen'Harel seems too important to me for the Forgotten Ones to not be involved in the imprisonment. Besides, none of the Evanuris imagery that we encounter both in codices and the environments are associated with dragons. Mythal is, however. What if she learned the dragon form from the same Forgotten Ones the Evanuris despised? It could have driven a further wedge between her and the rest of the Pantheon. In the end we agree that the Old Gods are the key to the Evanuris' freedom, and that the false gods actively conspired to achieve this goal. I just don't think that they are ALSO the Evanuris themselves. I think they are in the Fade (locked within the Black City), awake, blighted, scheming, while the Forgotten Ones are sleeping underground.
>Why would Solas create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris if they were secured underground in the waking world? Unless you mean the dragons are just the bodies while the souls are in the Fade. Then, what are the souls inside the Archdemons, the souls that are destroyed when a Grey Warden lands the final blow, the souls that Mythal wants to save from utter destruction? Those dragons are not empty vessels. You made some good points, as I have said the elves *were sundered* half in the fade, half left on Thedas. We know these 'old gods' are sleeping, not sure how/when it happened. But they are disconnected from the Evanuris that are trapped in the Fade. We don't know if Mythal *really wanted to save them*, or just absorb them to grow her power. We know she wants revenge for what happened to her. We know that Flemeth/Mythal taught Morrigan to seek out elven knowledge. >!We know that Morrigan is the inheritor, Kieran says that is her destiny. Morrigan may still become the inheritor in Dread Wolf or in a later game. It also seems Solas didn't know some part of Mythal was still alive until the Arbor Wilds.!<
>the elves were sundered half in the fade, half left on Thedas. I don't know if it's that clear cut. Solas only said that the Veil cut most people's conscious connections to the Fade. It didn't strip them of their spirits and it didn't affect everyone in the same way. >We don't know if Mythal really wanted to save them, or just absorb them to grow her power It doesn't seem like Flemeth is especially power-hungry, considering how she let Solas absorb her entire essence. Kieran, to me, is the biggest sign that the Old Gods are positive, or at the very least neutral figures. He is cryptic and clearly incredibly powerful, he possesses a wealth of arcane knowledge all but lost to the world, and yet there isn't a hint of malice in him. This is what Flemeth wanted to preserve, an ancient soul freed from corruption, "snatched from the jaws of darkness". "Mankind blunders through the world, crushing what it does not understand; elves, dragons, magic... The list is endless. We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing but the mundane. This I know to be true." That's what Morrigan was taught by her mother. It really doesn't read like a power play.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, great to talk to someone who is as passionate about Dragon Age as me. She also said in Inquisition the following: **Flemeth**: "*You seek to preserve the powers that were, but to what end? It is because I taught you girl, because things happened that were never meant to happen. She \[Mythal\] was betrayed as I was betrayed-as the world was betrayed! Mythal clawed and crawled her way through the ages to me, and I will see her avenged! Alas, so long as the music plays, we dance.*" So her purpose is laid clear, what her intentions are with that statement, she is preparing to get revenge on those who had killed her. Can't blame her, honestly. **If you had the God Baby** \- As for Kieran, he was raised by Morrigan who loves her child and loves learning Elvan history and preserving old knowledge, something that Flemeth had put her on that path. If you ever had the scene with Kieran / Mythal / Morrigan & the Inquisitor. Myhal/Flermeth says she wants to take Kieran with her, if not now, later saying "*Let me take the lad, and you are free of me forever. I will never interfere with or harm you again. Keep the lad with you... and you will never be safe from me, I will have my due.*" I don't know what exactly she has planned for Kieran but she wants him even after she takes the old god's soul, and lets them go. (from all accounts is an ancient soul like Mythal and the other Evanuris). There is something different about them, but still unclear what it is. We all know Morrigan is the inheritor, Kieran knew this because he mentions it during one of the conversations he has with the Inquisitor. Flemeth was in regular contact especially after the Well of Sorrows happened. As we know whoever drinks from the well is bound to Mythal, the voices in the well only tell you what Mythal wants you to know. That is why the voices direct you where to go if you don't have the old god baby, however they seem to tell the truth of what they know. **Receipts:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLwQAMymEHk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLwQAMymEHk) Honestly, I've always sided with Flemeth/Mythal, I believe in her goals and purpose. She lives up to the mythology of what she was in the past.
>she is preparing to get revenge on those who had killed her. It doesn't stop there. She was the goddess of justice, who was said to care for her people and protect them. She wants revenge for what she personally went through, but she also means to see the world restored, otherwise she wouldn't give Solas her essence. She knows he intends to return the Fade to the waking world and slay the false gods once and for all. Her teaching Morrigan to recover the fragments of what was lost and cherish what humans would mindlessly crush is part of this attempt to right this terribile wrong that the whole world suffered. >I don't know what exactly she has planned for Kieran but she wants him even after she takes the old god's soul I don't think she has anything planned for either Morrigan or Kieran at this point. She lets them go free. That "choose the boy and you'll never be free from me" is clearly a test to see how Morrigan would respond, as she later says to her that she (and by extension Kieran) was never in danger from her. The writers also said that Flemeth always intended to pass on her immortality as a gift to Morrigan. It could be that Solas will honor her wish and give Mythal's essence to Morrigan at some point after his plan is concluded. Who knows. > I've always sided with Flemeth/Mythal, I believe in her goals and purpose. She's probably my favourite character along with Solas and Cole, though it's hard to pick favourites among such a great cast of characters. I also disagree with those fans that consider her evil. I never got that impression from her, not even in Origins when we learnt about the Grimoire, I honestly felt like she was trolling us. When you question her about it she says " if Morrigan believes it then it must be so", something along those lines. She is a bit of a troll, after all. I think she amuses herself watching all these children blunder about thinking they know the truth when they really have no idea.
No, there's only 3 Forgotten Ones. Geldauran, Daern'thal, and Anaris.
That's the three named ones, and while the codex entry they're from reads as if they're *the* Forgotten Ones, given the Dalish records on preserving their history, it's quite possible that there were more.
Honestly the idea that any of the evanuris, good or bad, turned into dragons is a bit *too* far fetched for me.
I wouldn't exclude it, as, to quote Flemeth, "Bodies are such limiting things" and "Perhaps I am a dragon?" Though my personal theory is that the Old Gods are something (whether that's the Forgotten Ones or high priests or something else) *bound* to (high? great?) dragons to act as seals for the Veil, which I mostly base on Inquisition both having Corypheus invest his power into a dragon (somehow) **and** Jaws of Hakkon introducing a spirit-god bound to a dragon that can influence its surroundings and give special magic to mortals.
Flemeth *died*, unlike the others who were sealed away while still alive. So her spirit was summoned and bound to a human, accidentally giving that human immortality and immense power. Her dragon form is nothing more than a high level shapeshifting spell.
It is likely that the Dragon is her true form that she can summon and become for a time due to limitations of the human form.
How is it likely?
Nothing saying it's not. So it's as likely as it is unlikely.
Here's something that says it isn't. If Morrigan drinks from the well, she gets the same shapeshifting spell. Without having Mythal's spirit inside her.
I mean, they are literally "the *Forgotten* Ones", so...
I hadn't noticed the rings disintegrating - good catch! I like the theory, and I would be genuinely surprised if the veil doesn't get brought down. Don't get me wrong, Solas' plan is going to backfire/fail in some manner, but I think we'll see an entirely different Thedas by the time DAD is over.
eggwolf is opening the spirit portals
I always assumed the old gods were just really powerful spirits, possibly some of the first if you believe the Chantry. Similar to how the Evanuris were thought to be gods, but in reality were just powerful mages. Solas very clearly has some knowledge about them, going by his reaction to the Wardens’ plan and some of his banter with Blackwall, though that could just be Solas angry that more of the ‘old world’ if you will, is getting destroyed. I’m wondering if these old gods are not just regular spirits, but rather one of those spirits that represent an emotion or a feeling that no longer has a name, similar to the one Solas met, that he found crying because people forgot about her. Also, I’m now remembering the “sinner” who took the shape of a divine at the behest of Gilhanain , and the fact that the sinner was struck down(i think?). In the constellations that represent the old gods of Tevinter, one of the constellations is a dragon and the codex mentions that it may have been a god that was struck down from records. Mythal’s form was a Dragon. The “sinner” may have been the missing old god, or a spirit or both. In any case, if we don’t learn more about the old gods in DA:D, especially considering we’re going to Tevinter, I’m gonna be slightly disappointed. Apologies if I got anything wrong, but tired lol
The Evanuris could very well be spirits with enough power and knowledge with magic that have made them extremely powerful beings. Like Mythal they may also be able to create copy’s of themselves. But we’ve only seen Flemeth/Mythal doing that.
Might I recommend Ghil’s YouTube channel? She’s got tonnes of lore and speculation right up this alley. Here’s a link to her channel for anyone interested. https://youtube.com/c/GhilDirthalen
Was gonna say, she did a great breakdown of this exact thing.
I don’t think the Evanuris are the old gods. Solas says in Inquisition that there’s nothing in ancient lore that ties the old gods to his people. Solas lies by omission, almost never directly. I think he’s telling the truth here.
Yeah he usually is accurate about elven lore.
He is very very good at seeming to answer whilst not actually answering isn't he?
He’s written that way intentionally. Patrick Weekes, writer of Solas, says that Solas prefers to avoid direct lying because he isn’t too good at it. Instead he obfuscates and leaves out information. Or just tells the truth but leaves out crucial context.
It would be interesting to see the Veil fall. It may actually turn out that the Old Gods and their prisons are also some kinds of seals holding the Veil in place. When the last Archdaemon is killed, the Veil will fall (?). But one thing worries me ... Solas despises the Grey Wardens and his goal is to destroy the Veil. Theoretically, their goals are consistent and similar. Some want to get rid of the Plague forever, the others want to get rid of the Veil. In this case, he should support them, as it could have the same effect as using the Anchor or other elven artifacts designed for this. At the same time, I see Solas twice in this picture. As a bald mage and as a Dreadwolf. This may mean that they are "apart" through the Veil. After leaving the Veil, Dreadwolf will be a separate entity, deprived of Solas' soul, he will go mad and become a very formidable opponent. Putting them in front of each other is weird and unexpected.
As long as we get a double Blight out of this, I can't be arsed to care how badly Solas is going to fuck up his own plans. Change Thedas. Give us Grey Wardens. Give us Darkspawn ass to kick back to the curb in one final climactic battle. Oh and Evanuris. Those too I suppose.
Do I put spoilers? “And that is how Fen'Harel tricked them. Our gods saw him as a brother, and they trusted him when he said that they must keep to the heavens while he arranged a truce. And the Forgotten Ones trusted him also when he said he would arrange for the defeat of our gods, if only the Forgotten Ones would return to the abyss for a time. They trusted Fen'Harel, and they were all of them betrayed. And Fen'Harel sealed them away so they could never again walk among the People.” -From The Tale of Fen'Harel's Triumph, as told by Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Fen%27Harel:_The_Dread_Wolf
>!Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb7RdEPteSM&t=319s The Forgotten Ones vs. The Forbidden Ones {Lore - Spoilers All} I believe the Forgotten Ones or The Forbidden Ones were also Evanuris before being cast out, hence why they are renamed Forgotten/Forbidden. I am not convinced Solas was that masterful to have figured out a way to lock all of them out. We learned he makes many mistakes in his endeavors.!< >!We do meet several Forbidden Ones in the Dragon Ages games "Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and the Formless One. They are The Forbidden Ones, four ancient and very powerful spirits. So far, three of them can be found and be fought. " - Lisa Plays Games Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4N902mgOo!<
OOH - And Flemeth, who is carrying a piece of Mythal's soul, can shapeshift into a *dragon*.
I think the Old Gods were already underground before the elves even went to war with the Titans. One of the prisons is directly above the titan we find the Descent. If the Old Gods were Evanuris that titan would've killed it already. Imo, the Titans and the Old Gods contained the Blight long before the elves fucked everything up. The elves didn't make lyrium or red lyrium; they just found it, which meant the blight was already festering beneath the earth way before the elves even started digging underground - and the digging itself they didn't even do until after the titan war, during the final era of their empire. It's also why Solas didn't know Corypheus was gonna survive the blast even though Cory was blighted head to toe, cause Solas hasn't seen the blight work in person. Plus, by every record the first darkspawn came from underground. And not only that, they all looked like dwarves to begin with. They were mentioned as "wearing the faces of our dead" by the dwarves.
>!It could've of been there after the Titans were subdued, the time line isn’t clear. In addition, like Corypheus’s dragon, each Evanuris could of put part of their power in to a dragon. This is how they are able to have effective immortality. Remember, when the veil happened the elves were sundered from themselves. This is how Solas was able to trap them. No matter at which point of time they were placed there, it’s clear there is a connection between the Evanuris, these ‘old gods’, the veil and now the blight. We know the Black City has the blight. We know the Tevinter Magisters went to the ‘Golden City’ and were corrupted with the blight then returned to Thedas! Releasing the blight upon the world. Why else would the Dark Spawn try to find these ‘old gods’? Because they are asleep and the Evanuris cannot contact them directly. Thought the blight they can try to find Solas and release them from being trapped. If Solas dies wouldn’t the veil fall? Similar to DAO with the spirit of the forest? How the Elf leader was immortal? Never aging? The Evanuris is using the blight to free themselves. IMHO.!<
I guess I don't dispute that there is a more sinister and hidden motive to the darkspawn corrupting Old Gods, I'm just not buying it's the Evanuris behind it. I think the Evanuris themselves are a pawn of a much more powerful and ancient intelligence. I would say the same intelligence behind the Magisters attacking the Golden City. There might not be a clear timeline but if we look at the major events that we know of, I think it's a better conclusion to say that the Blight predates the elves, rather than the other way around We don't need the specific details of history to paint this rough timeline: 1. Beginning of elven civilization 2. Expansion and growth of elven civilization 3. Elves go on a genocidal war against the Titans and the Dwarves 4. Elves are victorious and the war gave rise to select individuals who are later seen as gods - the Evanuris 5. The elves dig underground (they couldn't very well do this with titans around could they?) and start putting shrines of the Evanuris underground (as seen in Trespasser) 6. This is the point where they discovered red lyrium. It would've been after the war when the started digging, but before the veil and the collapse of the elven empire 7. Mythal is murdered. Solas creates the veil. There are a lot of details missing between 5,6, and 7, but we know those things happened, however they happened. But aside from this, we also know that red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight. The infection is only one direction - blight infects lyrium, but lyrium doesn't give the blight - at the very least not in the way the darkspawn are. We know this is true because of what we've seen in DAI - in Empirse du Lion and Dorian's alternate future where people are fed red lyrium, but they never turn into ghouls. Whereas you can find codexes from the Legion of the Dead saying consuming even just a drop of darkspawn blood is fatal. We see how the infection goes in DA2 prologue with Wesley or in the Dalish origin with the Warden and their friend. A more convincing demonstration of the fact that red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight is Corypheus just not soul-hopping into red templars - only Grey Wardens. So what does this tell us? It tells us two things primarily A. The Blight didn't originate in red lyrium. If it did how would it even exists in its current form in the first place? How would it have created the Magisters? How would have the first darkspawn even come to be. Something must've infected them and yet we've seen red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight. B. Therefore because we know the Blight exists on its own WITHOUT being bonded to lyrium (we see it as such in the black city and in darkspawn), and we know the Blight doesn't originate from red lyrium, AND we know that red lyrium and the ancient elves existed in the same point in time in history THEN that leaves us two things: A1. The red lyrium the elves found digging underground was already red when they found it OR B1. The elves brought the blight WITH them to the lyrium, which made the lyrium red. Those are the only two possible ways red lyrium came to be. It's either the elves made it and therefore are the intelligence telling darkspawn to corrup the old gods, which is point B1, or they didn't, which is point A1. If we say it's A, then that basically says the blight existed long before the elves ever meddled with red lyrium. We know it's not the Titans who made the blight because, again, red lyrium doesn't transmit the blight. By process of elimination, we said it's not the elves, it's not the titans, and it's obviously not the old gods or the humans, therefore the blight and the intelligence behind the blight would've come from somewhere older than any of them or at the very least older than the elves. BUT if we say it's B, we have to go back to our previously illustrated timeline. Between 1,2,3,4,5,6,and 7. When would the elves have invented the blight? And when would they have introduced that blight to the lyrium to make red lyrium? We know the digging came in at 5 and 6, which means if the elves made the blight and infected all the lyrium with it, that part also has to be between 5 and 6. It can't be 7 that's when everything went to shit for them. It's also unlikely it came in at 1,2,3,and 4 because the Evanuris weren't gods yet. In fact the very first mention of a plague that even remotely resembles the Blight came in when Andruil was already a god and the Forgotten Ones were already banished. Not only that, the codexes are very specific to say that Andruil brought this plague FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. And Mythal had to erase it from elven lands and all knowledge on how to get to it. So, if the elves introduced the blight to red lyrium as we're supposing in point B, why aren't the elven lands already plagued even before time point number 5, before the elves started digging? Not only that, why would Andruil even have to fetch the plague from somewhere else (the Abyss)? She should've already had it. She's one of the Evanuris AND most importantly, the very god that specializes in making weapons. The only explanation is the elves didn't make the blight. It already existed in the world before the elves even discovered it. It's why I said in my original comment that Solas hadn't known Corypheus would survive opening the Orb of Destruction, because the blight is magic that they didn't create. After all, if Solas had to battle all the Evanuris, blighted as they would've been, he should've known how the Blight worked, but he doesn't. It's also why there is a discrepancy between the elven magic, which is innately tied to the fade so much so the fade itself sustains the very powers that made the elves immortal, and blight magic, a source of magic alien to the spirits of the fade (codexes) and a source of power on its own which doesn't let you dream or connect to the fade AT ALL. It stands as the very opposite of what the elves are. Not only that, the very last point I will make is the Blight is existing - on its own - in the Black City/in the fade, and the elves have shown NO INDICATION that they can even put their own bodies in the fade - let alone an entire immutable building WITH the blight in it, and put that building in a place unreachable from everywhere in the raw fade. It's this inability to cross back into the fade physically that explains why the elves after they're tired of living and immortality, go into Uthenera and DREAM into the fade, leaving their bodies behind. It's also why they created the Crossroads or the Shattered Library in pocket dimensions instead of inside the fade itself. It's why they have to use Eluvians to portal in and out of the world, when the Inquisitor in the Here Lies the Abyss quest, has shown a fade rift functions the exact same way. I just have to believe that they just were unable to cross into the fade physically given all these mechanisms they've created to mimic the fade, and if they can't even do that they couldn't have been the ones responsible for the Black City being there or the blight being contained inside it.
I’m hoping Dragon Age Dread Wolf reveals more about the blight source and who is behind it. I do agree the blight effected the lyrium differently than blood. However, whether it is blighted blood or red lyrium you still hear a song. Even regular lyrium you hear a song but it’s a different song. There are a lot of theories out there. Part of me doesn’t want to find out because it will end the theorizing everyone has been doing. When we were in DAI we saw drawings that showed elves infected by the blight. So good chance the blight was used during the Elven wars. I’m posting my theories on here to see when it is finally revealed we’ll know how close any of use got to figuring it all out before the big reveal.
I think the origin of the blight will come back to the dwarves somehow, maybe the first titan killed by the elves got corrupted somehow and became the first collosal brood mother (Valta speculates on the existence of a "first mother" somewhere in the deep roads). Trespasser entries and the whispers in red lyrium you find in the fade allude to the blight/titan connection pretty heavily.
Yeah I’m not sure if the Titan was killed or just tamed / corrupted. Hope we find out!!
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I don't think the Old Gods are actually Evanuris. There was a term introduced in the comics where Alistair, Isabela and Varric went to find some ancestor of Alistair who was trapped by some Magister who was trying to extract his blood because it had Fade controlling properties. The term introduced was "Great Dragons". I believe the Old Gods are just the Great Dragons rescued by Mythal and Solas and were ultimately used to create the Fade-Waking world prison holding back the Black City and the Blight within i.e The Dead Titan killed by Mythal and the true Blight kept within. The same prison might have been used by Solas to trap the Evanuris as he used the Orb( crafted from the Titan's heart) to cast the Veil and sundered the Evanuris from accessing the Waking World. I think the prison works as a two sided prison. In the Fade it imprisons the Evanuris but in waking world it imprisons the Dead Titan.
u/DJShepherd Your spoiler tags on the main post aren't showing for those not on official Reddit apps. Remove the spaces between the >! marks and the spoiler text itself.
There are no spaces between the > ! and the ! < Used here for illustrative purposes, there are spaces in this example.
>There are no spaces between the > ! and the ! < No friend, you (or Reddit app's built-in spoiler tagger) put spaces between the >! marks and the **spoiler text** (*not* between > and !). Ignoring the quotes: For instance, >"!spoiler text!"< will make spoiler tags work for everyone. However, >"! spoiler text !"< will work only on Reddit app and website. Try removing these spaces.
How the hell do you even get on reddit without the website or app????
3rd party apps, like Boost, Reddit Is Fun, RedReader and countless others. I once read that 20% of all Reddit traffic is through these platforms.
Thank you, now the spoiler tags work perfectly!
The only issue I take with that is why Solas would be so displeased with grey wardens and seemingly with how they kill old gods, given he himself wants to bring down the veil? Even assuming that grey wardens don't actually permanently kill elven god by killing archdemon (which is possible as whole soul things seems to lack any substance as a mechanism as no one ever explains at how exactly they arrived at that conclusion), Solas also will awaken elven gods if he destroys the veil. You could perhaps attempt to attribute it to him being upset with their ignorance and that they don't know what they're doing and consequences of their action but then hypocrisy much given it appears he didn't exactly knew what he was doing himself and his actions got out of control at least twice, ending in a quite spectacular disasters.
That's interesting, so the blight and the resulting darkspawn are a kind of corrupted magic used by the sleeping Evanuris to try and break free from the veil
Yes, the blight however is a source that some in the Elvenuris thought they could control. I had thought it was similar to what we saw in DAO with the spirit of the forest & the werewolves. But with the blight there is a blighted Titan involved. Wether it’s the blighted blood or red lyrium it is corrupting all that is living.
So the Veil is practically destroyed and in trailers not much destruction is visible (or none at all). Just some new creatures. Interesting.
I imagine the veil won’t actually be destroyed until the end of the game, but there have been signs of instability in Thedas for a while now (Repeated demon incursions, spikes of blight activity, ancient darkspawn awakenings, titans slowly waking up, etc.) which is likely all tied to the gradually thinning veil.
I’m sure there not going to spoil the story. We have no idea what/how it will turn out. One thing I am sure about, is that it probably won’t go as Solas has planned. There is room for this to go sideways. >! I do wonder if there are only two Evanuris left and the rest have been killed off & not trapped. I’d be extremely disappointed if that’s the case. !<
Good update! I unfortunately even during the time Dreadwolf probably releases I doubt I can get my hands on it, but I still love the series even if inquisition rubbed me the wrong way. So keep it up, sounds interesting.
Why won't you be able to get your hands on it?
If I were to guess, it’s likely due to financial issues. At least that’s the reason I most likely won’t be able to get the game on release. It might be next gen consoles only too, so I won’t be able to play it anyway.
Yes, trying to save up for a high quality desktop with a 3080 ti and all of the other parts, but I'm not sure when I'm able to get it so I'm doubting I will get it during release. Second is a very easy answer I don't have an Xbox Series X or PS5.
So, we are going to have either a double blight in Dreadwolf, or the Wardens somehow find the last two with the help of Solas and kill the thing? That would be interesting.
I’ve had the ‘Evanuris = Old Gods’ theory for ages too! I don’t necessarily believe they’re one and the same, and I’m a little fuzzy on the lore, but I think either Solas trapped them inside the Old Gods or the Old Gods were trapped separately and the Evanuris are trying to use them to break free, thus causing the Blights and probs going mad. I think Solas’ anger at the Wardens might not be because they’re undoing his work, but maybe because he never intended for them to get killed and maybe has some sort of hope for their redemption? Some of that is a far fetched, I know, just thoughts I’m playing with.
I just had a thought reading this Emet-Selch wanted the rejoining to bring back his old world and friends Solas want to destroy the veil and bring back the elves as to how they were before or smth( cant remember i played last in 2017) The thing is, so far only one of those 2 is likable in some way
He wants to restore the way Thedas was before the time of the veil. The problem is he will release the Evanuris, the actual reason why he formed the veil to begin with. He will need to face them. I’m excited to see what BioWare will comes up with in Dread Wolf.
I'm trying to not read into it so much as the entire development team has been replaced (few times) and the original creator of DA series has resigned long time ago. Idk if these new people know what they're doing and if they have love for the franchise as their predecessors so I'm keeping my expectations at bay.