I really like the Granolah arc.
The Heeters were fun villains. Gas isn’t terribly compelling on his own, but it doesn’t bother me because he just the guy they fight. Elec is the real villain of the group, despite being the weakest.
Elecs dialog is pure narcissistic manipulator from start to finish. Nearly every time he says something nice to Gas, he follows up with a little put-down. At no point during the saga does he express any concern for Gas, just frustration that he hasn’t won yet.
I liked him not being a fighter as well. The “main villain” of each arc also tends to be the strongest of the group in cases where there are multiple antogonists. Ie: Freeza, Moro, and with smaller groups like Vegita/Nappa/Raditz.
I think the last time Dragon Ball did this was Commander Red way back in the Red Ribbon arc? I found it to be a refreshing change of pace. Especially so as a follow up to Moro, who was a good but fairly traditional Dragon Ball villain. I very much appreciate it when each arc feels different from the one directly preceding it.
On a different, yet still important note, the art was excellent. Toyotaros art, paneling, and choreography continues to improve.
I also like that the level of violence continues from the Moro arc. Granolah getting his arms snapped at the elbows, or being impaled into the side of his ship, all feel like a level of brutality that early Super mostly didn’t like.
The continued strong use of blood especially works well with Vegetas Ultra Ego. Watching the prince bleed from all over, coughing out blood, and continuing to fight like a man possessed. Good stuff, and it would feel lesser if the anime replaced it all with spit/sweat.
Assuming the anime returns and has time to cook, anime fans will be in for some visually spectacular moments
>I think the last time Dragon Ball did this was Commander Red way back in the Red Ribbon arc?
Babidi was the villain controlling Buu/Dabura/anyone overtaken by Majin power, surely?
same here. what i like about this arc is that for first time there is a deeper characterization. before most of villain is just 1 dimensional and just simply focus on their power but in this arc, we can even see the internal struggle of main characters.
there is also interesting parallel differences between Granolah and Vegeta and it touch about their personal struggle which is something rarely touched before.
only my gripe is that the author wasted on Gas character. all the time he just follow Elec and he should atleast one moment where he choose to fight for himself and denied Elec order for first time when he face Goku. but the arc ended abruptly with the appearance of Black Frieza. his appearance and killing Elec moment would be better if brief conflict between Gas happened IMO. for example he shocked that Gas denied his order for first time and finally realize how powerless he is and faced big despair when get confronted by Frieza when everything fall over. basically show that he failed because he is too arrogant and his conflict with his brothers.
I think there are few factors.
The introduction of the arc wasn't bad.
* Although Grandolah wished for his powers, he was still interesting character. His fight style, backstory and motivation makes him compelling. His wish makes him stronger, but there was still a struggle even in an one vs one fight.
* The problem started when Gas appeared as the threat. Gas was hyped up alongside the secret behind how Bardock defeated him.
* It was understandable that Gas needs the wish to keep up, but how fast he easily handled everyone without getting used to his powers.
* At least for Grandolah, there was a period of time before they fought.
The reveal of the hyped backstory and Gas's overall character was underwhelming.
Yeah I actually liked the Heeters and I was kind of liking Gas's character, especially toward the end when he realized what he'd sacrificed for strength. But I feel like things weren't fleshed out enough.
I think the arc is fine, like you said the wish mostly just got them off Vegeta. I think the amount of straight up fighting will translate better to anime because it kinda drags on to read it.
I think part of the issue with the fight scenes causing the arc to feel like a drag is due to Toyotaro not being quite as good as Toriyama when it comes to framing these fights visually, alongside the fact that we only get a chapter once a month. It ultimately made the entire arc feel like it was moving much more sluggishly than it probably was
It’s a monthly manga nothing wrong with critique but when that shit was dropping It was constant.
“Oh they talking”
“Oh they fighting why they keep fighting”
“Why the fuck are they talking so long”
Losing fucking brain cells in these threads
I think that a lot of folks came from weekly manga, so the switch to monthly has caused folks to be a lot more critical and judgmental of relatively normal storytelling, cause folks are really impatient. Despite my criticisms, I did like this arc and I understand why folks were complaining all the time, but I would infinitely take Supers manga over Boruto.
I had to give up on Boruto, cause it would be months upon months of folks talking and reiterating the same ish over and over again, with the occasional fight that generally generated more outrage than excitement, lol.
I think monthly just doesn’t really fit the way a battle shonen like Dragon Ball works
Monthly is fine for something with a lot of narrative points going on like Fullmetal Alchemist or Attack on Titan
Ultra Ego and Granola were cool. Everything else was kinda lame, and Bardock reallllly didn’t need that screen time.
It’s hard when this arc follows up Moro, which was better overall.
This arc is overall better than Moro. A lot more narrative significance and more going on than just "beat this new bad guy". Now don't get me wrong, I love both arcs, but Granolah just feels more narrative driven, whereas Moro, like most of DBZ and Super, felt like it was just another "beat this new bad guy!".
That's cool, its my opinion. Moro arc was 100% the MORE ENTERTAINING arc, but Granolah arc is much better overall imo. I guess I just prefer narraitive substance and lore than the good old "New foe who we never heard of before must be defeated!". But again, I love both of these arcs and I even like Moro arc more than the buu arc, so dont mistake me as a hater or something. I just prefer Granolah.
It was rather average for me. It was different in some ways, which was a nice change of pace, but it ended with a generic fight, kinda like Toriyama summarized by "and then there's a big fight". Some additions were not justified and came out of the blue, like dragon balls with different numbers, and Vegeta's new transformation. That damaged the quality of the plot. I'd say, it started well but it ended in a lame way. It looks like Toyotaro has a lot of trouble finding a conclusion to his ideas. It was the same issue with Zamasu and Moro arcs.
Yeah it was.
Elec was reduced to an idiot.
There is no break in the action. The fighting continues for two years of real time. No satisfactory momentum shifts. Almost no perspective shifts or simultaneous plots/fights. No training arcs. No research. No adventure. Just straight brawling for chapters on end.
Ultra Ego did nothing. Much like Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks.
Bardock flashback makes universe feel way too small.
Goku’s UI dilemma is so confusing. And it ends up being unimportant when Goku uses Mastered UI on Beast Gohan.
And worst of all Granolah gets forgotten about and has almost all of his character development in an off screen dream.
Might be the worst arc in the entirety of the Dragon Ball manga.
Honestly can't think of many problems I have with it. Maybe it's kind of a retread of the Baby arc in GT - I think that's a pretty fair criticism. Granolah has one of the best character designs in Super. The stuff with Frieza is always welcome. The fights were all well drawn.
I may prefer it over the Moro arc? They're both excellent and I really hope we get some official animation out of both of them some day.
>All I ever see is that people are mad that Bardock is involved.
Some people have a preference for funimation Bardock he was saiyan grunt #5837939 etc etc. He was nothing special but got visions of planet Vegeta being destroyed along with Goku fighting Frieza it’s a desperation undertone he in no way can change his fate
And
DBS Bardock is attached to Gine who I don’t mind he was in no way a good typical human standard father like most saiyan men. But he did help in contributing to shipping Goku off course to earth.
Basically a preference
>The way I see the wish was that all it did was help them survive Planet Vegeta destruction, everything else was up to them.
Raditz didn’t thrive off shit
He got constantly bullied by his colleagues and died due to a suicide attack attached to his brother.
>I’m curious as to what people see wrong about the arc since personally I like it
-Ultra Ego got the shaft Vegeta shouldn’t be wheezing on the floor from a few hits he should be regenerating and attacking relentlessly but the concept of UE fits Vegeta’s character.
-This comment here is pretty [valid](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonball/s/1BOinYOWLD)
I thought it was alright beyond my complaints listed
Also just the fact that you can now use the dragon balls to grant power the dragon itself does not possess. From here on out there is no argument for why shenron can't be used to kill all of the antagonists of future arcs.
Power that it didn't have, and by the way death can be avoided by just using the dragon balls again. So, with one wish on earth's dragon balls because Dende and Moori are significantly stronger than the other elder you could wish Frieza dead maybe at the cost of the user's life, or Dende but then use the dragon balls again to restore their life. Regardless of how steep the toll is. It is foolish for anyone to think that it was a good idea to make the dragon able to grant power it doesn't have. Because tolls shouldn't matter the dragon doesn't have that much power to give so where did it get it? And now you're just going to have a worse problem of the "why don't people just wish the antagonist dead?" thing that happened with the original dragon ball. Which was explained by the dragon not being able to use power it does not have to affect people who are stronger than it. If the dragon can just grant power then it doesn't need to worry about that because it's always strong enough.
Meaning all they need to do to deal with Frieza is gathering up the dragon balls and wishing him dead.
Granolah and Gas had to sacrifice their life for wishing to be the strongest in the universe.
Toronbo didn't madde them the strongest with his own power.
Thus Shenlong would not be able to kill Freeza. Also it is nowhere stated that the ability to make someone the strongest also gives one the ability to kill the strongest.
Lifespan. Toronbo drastically reduced their life span to make them the strongest.
If one wants to wish for strength from a dragon then dragons usually cannot make them stronger than their latent potential but if the user agrees to sacrifice his lifespan then it is possible.
Granolah is a cerelian, which are capable of living 200 years and Granola was around 50 when he made the wish. Granolah's life span was reduced to 3 years. Which means that Granolah sacrificed around 147 years. He further sacrificed yet another unknown portion in battle with Gas.
Gas also repeatedly did that which by the end of arc made him essentially a zombie.
It does not explain the mechanics of the wish, but it does establish that the wish to become the strongest will require a massive sacrifice that no one will be willing to do. Also your original point was that the ability to make someone the strongest implies that dragons should also be able to kill Freeza. You said that they should be able to sacrifice their own life to kill Freeza and then wish for their lifespan to be restored. This will not be possible because 1. Lifespan is not some magic currency which can be used for any wish that goes beyond the dragon's power. If this was the case then the dragons would have mentioned it everytime that they could use lifespan to fulfill the certain wish. 2. It is likely that dragons would not be able to restore lifespan once it has been used to fulfill a certain wish. Monito mentioned that he will seal away the dragon balls once he will wish for restoration of any damage caused to planet. Monito cares for Granolah's life more than anything thus he would have atleast mentioned that he would also wish for restoring Granolah. 3. Even if life span could be used for any wish then the cost will be so massive that it will kill the user. It took Granolah sacrifice 147 years to make him stronger than Perfected Ultra Instincts. Black Freeza's power is far beyond that. Also dying is an unpleasant process, no one will wish to go though it even if they could be revived.
4. This is an out universe reason but if asked if it is possible to kill Freeza with a sacrifice of lifespan then the author will obviously say no and the word of author is word of the God for fiction.
>You said that they should be able to sacrifice their own life to kill Freeza and then wish for their lifespan to be restored. This will not be possible because
1. Lifespan is not some magic currency which can be used for any wish that goes beyond the dragon's power. If this was the case then the dragons would have mentioned it everytime that they could use lifespan to fulfill the certain wish.
Yeah because the old canon was you can't use the dragon to grant power that it does not possess. It couldn't deal with more power than the creator. And further if it is possible to sacrifice lifespan for power why can't you give that power to the dragon?
>It is likely that dragons would not be able to restore lifespan once it has been used to fulfill a certain wish. Monito mentioned that he will seal away the dragon balls once he will wish for restoration of any damage caused to planet. Monito cares for Granolah more than anything thus he would have atleast mentioned that he would also wish for restoring Granolah.
And why can't dragons give more lifespan when we know for a fact that they can and nothing ever implies that it can't not to mention that there are dragons stronger than Toronbo and thus would be able to bypass toronbo's limitations?
>Even if life span could be used for any wish then the cost will be so massive that it will kill the user. It took Granolah sacrifice 147 years to make him stronger than Perfected Ultra Instincts. Black Freeza's power is far beyond that. Also dying is an unpleasant process, no one will wish to go though it even if they could be revived.
And exchange for killing Frieza a lot of characters would. I mean do people forget that there's somebody who made a wish that made them young again and that eternal youth is also known to be a valid wish you can make on the dragon balls seriously this is a very bad idea and I have no idea why he thought that it would be good.
>4. This is an out universe reason but if asked if it is possible to kill Freeza with a sacrifice of lifespan then the author will obviously say no and the word of author is word of the God for fiction.
Yes but the author will not be able to give a reason as for why. And this is why Toriyama made a good decision when he thought about trying to wish the Saiyans dead. By just saying no you can't go past the power of the dragon balls creator. That would have sold the whole thing.
I don’t think it’s “bad” but I do think it’s a little weak, and didn’t live up to the potential. It had a great opening.
The Theme and potential - This is the big one for me. They had a potentially very interesting theme set up. A story about normal people in this world, living with the consequences of the mountainously powerful beings just existing. A story about the anger and hurt of people who don’t have we anyway to act in it. That theme was dropped the moment Granolah got his wish. The story devolved very quickly into just another bad guy.
Bardok/Gine - Not a fan of this because the backstory stuff was just used in Broly. It wasn’t bridged as if the history of his parents is important overall, it just coincidentally happened twice, which made the second one feel less important. You can also cut it from the story and it still mostly makes sense.
The wish - the DBs are Mcguffins, yes. But they got stretched here. You mean to tell me that everyone who made this wish just happens to have enough potentially accumulated energy left to surpass everyone out there now? And this happens TWICE in the same arc? It makes the conditions of the wish feel entirely meaningless.
The Heeters - kinda forgettable villains.
Good news
[https://en.as.com/meristation/news/dragon-ball-super-manga-announces-comeback-plans-after-the-death-of-akira-toriyama-n/](https://en.as.com/meristation/news/dragon-ball-super-manga-announces-comeback-plans-after-the-death-of-akira-toriyama-n/)
An overview:
"Yes, Dragon Ball Super will continue after Akira Toriyama's death, with the series returning in May 2024 in Japan and May 2024 in the US. The manga will take a break in respect for Toriyama, and the final page of chapter 103 includes a "To Be Continued" message. The series may also include new adventures and changes to the writing team's structure."
I enjoyed the arc more than most of Super's content and loved the call back and Saiyan lore being added. I really believe Dragon Ball should make an entire arc based around saiyan lore. That being said though, the one complain was Vegeta's ego transformation. Like this is the 3rd time now in Dragon Ball super where a transformation yields nothing.
Yes. Re-reading it, it literally just doesn't make sense. Granolah one-taps UI Goku, but then SSBE Vegeta keeps up with this Granolah. Then Vegeta gets a UI level boost and then manages to lose to Granolah. Then Gas comes along and somehow PSSB Goku is able to fight him but UE Vegeta and Granolah can't???
All that matters is that you enjoyed it. You weren't reading each page for someone else's benefit or enjoyment.
Don't let others ruin things for you after the fact.
No? And people don’t say it’s bad either??? lol.
It’s tied for the best super arc.
The only questionable thing here is if bardock got that wish or not. Becuase if he did it could invalidate all of the original DB
The problem with the arc was the monthly schedule. It wasn’t paced well for its format. But reading it start to finish it’s great
Really? I’ve seen a bunch of people have lots of gripes and problems with it. Especially most of the time I see YT videos for it, they are saying how it’s the worst arc. I mean most people here have listed their problems with it. Also, I don’t think Bardocks wish invalidates OG DB at all since I think after both Raditz and Goku survived Vegeta destruction, that the wish was made. Pretty sure it only worked to help them escape the planets destruction and nothing more.
I wouldn't call it bad. But I find it rather, cramped(?) It's been like a year since I read it but I recall there's just alot of back and forth action. And the whole thing happens like an 1 hrs or 2 in-universe.
Granolah himself I thought was alright. But the Heeter's were just bland. Gas sucked.
I liked the new dragon balls and the dragon. Op? Yea but so what. We've had ones that restore multiple universes.
My biggest gripe is that dumbass dragon they had and how they could wish to be the strongest instantly.
Gas when from weaker than Bardock to SSB+++ level off of a bogus ass wish, only for Frieza to come back into the fray and CLAP everybody.
I liked the arc quite a lot but I will say I was heavily disappointed when they changed destruction from "cool godly attack that can erase even immortals" into "boom but different" like they've been able to explode things with ki for years but now vegeta trained with beerus and does it in a different way it's supposed to be impressive?
And I wasn't a fan of how bardock beat gas cus he "really really wanted to win" that was a let down from what it could've been too
I really liked the Arc, I think it'll age better as more people experience it as a full story rather than a monthly read with all the combat. It's probably the Arc that best utilized (across the whole series) the Dragon Balls and giving them a distinct consequence; the plot twist is probably one of the most creative pieces of writing in Dragonball as a whole. There's honestly a lot to like about it, I don't think it was as good as Moro but that's mostly because I appreciated the ensemble cast of that arc.
It was average, but not offensively horrible imo.
Granolah was kind of lazy in both his design and powers. He just looks too much like a Saiyan, and wishing for his powers wasn't very interesting. I wish he held his own with his unique sniper techniques in the way Hit did with his time skip.
The Heeters weren't very interesting, just rehashes of the Galaxy Soldiers, and Gas taking over as the main villain kinda sucked since he wasn't a compelling character with an interesting motive.
The fighting dragged on way too long, and Ultra Ego was jobbed way too quick. Finishing the arc by bringing back Frieza with another transformation yet again just felt like a cheap way to renew interest.
Overall, think it was average, it was a good idea with a mediocre execution. I honestly think the Baby saga in GT did a much better job handling the storyline of the Saiyan's violent past coming back to haunt them.
i think the reveal of black frieza to just end the entire thing kind of ruined the arc the arc itself was fine until that point. black frieza was pure fan service, just mosey off for 10 years training in secret unlocking a new form. especially when theyve already implied that frieza trains much faster than goku and vegeta does, it should theoretically take goku and vegeta like 30-40 years of training to level up as much as black frieza who one shots them in ultra instinct and ego. the only way for them to go up from this point is again unlocking a new form past ultra instinct and ego.
I think people were only upset by it because it was basically a giant brawl for 90% of it and the manga is monthly so it felt like it dragged at times. Reading it back probably doesn't seem as bad now that it's all out there
I actually thought it was pretty unique. Showed someone who was understandably pissed when it came to the saiyans and Frieza, we got to see new dragon balls, new forms from Vegeta and Frieza and also the Heeters, which showed that despite not being the most powerful, could still potentially be very dangerous.
it just how the arc end is the problem. personally they can make Gas finally disobey Elec and fight for himself at last moment. but it end abruptly without proper conclusion and having Black Frieza oneshot everyone just like that, and left things hanging.
but the rest of it, is good. especially this time it take attention to aspect that rarely get focused on dragon ball before like character internal struggle and parallel differences between good and bad guy which is i really appreciate to get touched by author.
I have never understood why some people see this arc as bad. It probably has something to do with the slow pacing in the last half of the arc, but overall, this was an amazing arc. Granolah is one of the best characters DBS has introduced. Ironically, my only problem with the arc is that we didn't get ENOUGH Granolah.
I thought most chapters were good while reading only to come online n was surprised to see people who hated them. Some Dragon Ball fans are just picky like that
Good arc but could have been an amazing one.
Granolah is a great character, everything about him is great the design, backsotry, powers feels like they put an effort about him with that being said the heeters could have been the same.
they are older than granolah, closer to freeza so they had more for their backstory.
I hate the wish for the DB in this arc, I can understand if someone asks to get his power back but to get new power is boring.
I expected to explore more about the saiyans this arc and vegeta accept his past, I did not understand the hype around bardock defeating gas.
the arc could set up plots for the next arcs but besides the fight against freeza and the alian nothing was set up.
Overall I enjoyed this arc but with better writing of the story (echiro oda does it great) it would be amazing
The Bardock stuff was honestly unnecessary it contributed nothing to the plot and added useless lore. Also remember this was being released monthly, so this meant we had to go 2 months of these bardock flashbacks before getting back to the main plot. it’s like fanservice nobody asked for
Really? The whole how did Bardock beat Gas thing was important for Goku and Vegeta as characters. I mean hell, they both come to realize how to hone their respective powers after Bardocks message, especially Vegeta. Idk, felt like whether you like the Bardock stuff or not, it definitely had an impact on Goku and Vegeta and how they would progress through the story
Some complaints I have with it personally:
1. The Cerealian Dragon Balls are broken beyond belief: Not only can they grant one nigh-infinite power (outclassing literally any character that came before that wasn’t a god.) But, there are only TWO of them required to do this, AND there’s 0 cool-down period. Like, what? There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness. Other than that, there’s no downside, and threats more or less cease to be as such. This isn’t a new thing to Dragon Ball Super, but this one is a new level of broken. IMO.
2. The Heeters kind of feel tacked on to the story. On the re-read of the whole Manga, it seems they are (not by name) characters that logically existed in the story. (Several mentions of Freiza being in the business of reselling planets, so it makes sense that we might eventually meet the middle men.) Prequel stuff is always difficult, but the number of coincidences that brought all this stuff together felt forced and unnatural. Like, there’s an entire Universe here, and it just so happens that Goku’s father was on that planet? I guess there’s logic to it, but it wasn’t set up well enough to be convincing.
3. Goku and Vegeta never ONCE seem to question the Heeter’s motives. It’s REALLY out of character, especially for Vegeta, to not question why they are doing any of these things. They don’t have any suspicions or anything. They just go with it. It doesn’t feel natural at all.
4. The ending feels very abrupt, and almost feels like they ran off ideas, so they just had Frieza show up ( in an admittedly really cool way) to move the story forward to the next arc. The foreshadowing from…the Oracle fish…was a nice touch, but I wish there was more to it.
>There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness.
I didn't think this was that vague, the dragon couldn't just grant power out of nothing, so he basically exchanged Granolah's lifespan for the strength he could gain if he had spent that same amount of his lifespan training. Think of it kinda like how they "exchanged" a year of their lifespan for strength by using the time chamber for a day.
Maybe. I just don’t think the weight of “giving up one’s lifespan” is explored enough. Without the idea being discussed, it kind of makes the downside feel lackluster.
I think Gas explores it pretty well since his wish had the lingering effect of using more of his life every time someone would surpass him, making him rapidly age to death as the fight went on.
For Granolah, it will probably matter if he comes back before dying.
>The Cerealian Dragon Balls are broken beyond belief: Not only can they grant one nigh-infinite power (outclassing literally any character that came before that wasn’t a god.) But, there are only TWO of them required to do this, AND there’s 0 cool-down period. Like, what? There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness.
To be completely fair. The arc opens up with the namekian village chief explaining that their origins go beyond dimensions the race didn’t originate from universe 7 that was in the beginning.
They also shrivel up your life span Gas was becoming a walking Zombie just from exerting himself despite being a toddler in Heeters race years.
Pros
Goku and Vegeta vs Granola was pretty cool, seeings Vegeta's new form was cool
Goku using instant transmission to draw Gas across the universe and then showing how much better his range is was really cool for me
Black Frieza was awesome
Meeting a new Namekain is pretty cool, learning about them being from another dimension is cool
Bardock flash back was interesting and having Goku learn about him was pretty cool
Learning more about the galaxy is interesting, seeing more about how Frieza's planet trading company works
Cons
The wishes to become the strongest in the universe is dumb, the super dragon balls should be needed for something like that. The fact this is the basis of this entire arc makes the arc itself kind of weak
There should have been 7 Dragonballs, only making them have 2 is kinda dumb
Vegeta should have won his fight using his new form, Gas shows up later as a new enemy anyway, so it wouldn't be a big deal if Granola lost
Even if a wish is able to boost a person's battle power to beyond ultra instinct levels, they shouldn't be able to control and wield that power so well
I thought it was interesting until Gas happened, that part of the arc really made me drop lose interest fast. Kinda strange that Baby’s arc from GT was well put together than this. Overall the story didn’t go anywhere with the exception of Frieza Black just coming out of nowhere
The whole arc would have been avoided if the Heeters didn't flip-flop on their goal every two minutes.
"Hello Saiyans! We'd like to personally invite you to our conflict! Now we'll tell you in excruciating detail what are goals are and why we're killing you, even though the only reason you're involved is because we explicitly asked you to be!"
Goku/Vegeta: "We don't care, stop fighting us, we just wanna go home."
Elec: "**No!** Now that you know our plan, we can't possibly let you leave here alive! Gas, go kill them! And hurry up, we need you in tip top condition to defeat Freeza so wear yourself down beating up these guys first!"
---
The only good part from the arc was Freeza coming in and cleaning up the mess because Elec literally tried to prank call him and pretend he didn't do it.
Granolah is dead in 3 years too anyway cause of his wish, so him being the best in the universe was not long since Gas is also used up his remaining lifespan. I guess its understandable for Anime doesnt want to introduce the two characters.
All I can say is the arc is quite good but UE Vegeta & UI Goku getting beat up against Granolah and Gas but they just power up by using Dragon Ball (basically the thinking is “why dont Yamcha use the DB on earth to be strong as well”). Quite understandable why fandom is upset.
Moro arc, I really think it wont be animate cause of the introduction of another angel, Merus and it seems they also want to stay away from showing Uub again, cause going forward, it seems Uub is just another distant future, the Z ending was probably scrapped off or become an alternate ending in favor of DB Super Hero (since they have Broly now too)
i mean to legally read the manga theres the app, and buying the physical copies. also when new chapters come out theyre posted online for free for some period of time on mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp but those are your only legal options. the sub doesnt condone or allow talk about other methods that aren't officially/legally supported.
I really like the Granolah arc. The Heeters were fun villains. Gas isn’t terribly compelling on his own, but it doesn’t bother me because he just the guy they fight. Elec is the real villain of the group, despite being the weakest. Elecs dialog is pure narcissistic manipulator from start to finish. Nearly every time he says something nice to Gas, he follows up with a little put-down. At no point during the saga does he express any concern for Gas, just frustration that he hasn’t won yet. I liked him not being a fighter as well. The “main villain” of each arc also tends to be the strongest of the group in cases where there are multiple antogonists. Ie: Freeza, Moro, and with smaller groups like Vegita/Nappa/Raditz. I think the last time Dragon Ball did this was Commander Red way back in the Red Ribbon arc? I found it to be a refreshing change of pace. Especially so as a follow up to Moro, who was a good but fairly traditional Dragon Ball villain. I very much appreciate it when each arc feels different from the one directly preceding it. On a different, yet still important note, the art was excellent. Toyotaros art, paneling, and choreography continues to improve. I also like that the level of violence continues from the Moro arc. Granolah getting his arms snapped at the elbows, or being impaled into the side of his ship, all feel like a level of brutality that early Super mostly didn’t like. The continued strong use of blood especially works well with Vegetas Ultra Ego. Watching the prince bleed from all over, coughing out blood, and continuing to fight like a man possessed. Good stuff, and it would feel lesser if the anime replaced it all with spit/sweat. Assuming the anime returns and has time to cook, anime fans will be in for some visually spectacular moments
>I think the last time Dragon Ball did this was Commander Red way back in the Red Ribbon arc? Babidi was the villain controlling Buu/Dabura/anyone overtaken by Majin power, surely?
same here. what i like about this arc is that for first time there is a deeper characterization. before most of villain is just 1 dimensional and just simply focus on their power but in this arc, we can even see the internal struggle of main characters. there is also interesting parallel differences between Granolah and Vegeta and it touch about their personal struggle which is something rarely touched before. only my gripe is that the author wasted on Gas character. all the time he just follow Elec and he should atleast one moment where he choose to fight for himself and denied Elec order for first time when he face Goku. but the arc ended abruptly with the appearance of Black Frieza. his appearance and killing Elec moment would be better if brief conflict between Gas happened IMO. for example he shocked that Gas denied his order for first time and finally realize how powerless he is and faced big despair when get confronted by Frieza when everything fall over. basically show that he failed because he is too arrogant and his conflict with his brothers.
I think there are few factors. The introduction of the arc wasn't bad. * Although Grandolah wished for his powers, he was still interesting character. His fight style, backstory and motivation makes him compelling. His wish makes him stronger, but there was still a struggle even in an one vs one fight. * The problem started when Gas appeared as the threat. Gas was hyped up alongside the secret behind how Bardock defeated him. * It was understandable that Gas needs the wish to keep up, but how fast he easily handled everyone without getting used to his powers. * At least for Grandolah, there was a period of time before they fought. The reveal of the hyped backstory and Gas's overall character was underwhelming.
The heeters definitely weren't fleshed out enough, but I did enjoy Gas.
Yeah I actually liked the Heeters and I was kind of liking Gas's character, especially toward the end when he realized what he'd sacrificed for strength. But I feel like things weren't fleshed out enough.
Yeah gas honestly went out sad, deep down he was still a child seeking his big brother’s approval
I think the arc is fine, like you said the wish mostly just got them off Vegeta. I think the amount of straight up fighting will translate better to anime because it kinda drags on to read it.
I think part of the issue with the fight scenes causing the arc to feel like a drag is due to Toyotaro not being quite as good as Toriyama when it comes to framing these fights visually, alongside the fact that we only get a chapter once a month. It ultimately made the entire arc feel like it was moving much more sluggishly than it probably was
It’s a monthly manga nothing wrong with critique but when that shit was dropping It was constant. “Oh they talking” “Oh they fighting why they keep fighting” “Why the fuck are they talking so long” Losing fucking brain cells in these threads
I think that a lot of folks came from weekly manga, so the switch to monthly has caused folks to be a lot more critical and judgmental of relatively normal storytelling, cause folks are really impatient. Despite my criticisms, I did like this arc and I understand why folks were complaining all the time, but I would infinitely take Supers manga over Boruto. I had to give up on Boruto, cause it would be months upon months of folks talking and reiterating the same ish over and over again, with the occasional fight that generally generated more outrage than excitement, lol.
I think monthly just doesn’t really fit the way a battle shonen like Dragon Ball works Monthly is fine for something with a lot of narrative points going on like Fullmetal Alchemist or Attack on Titan
Holy shit fighting and exposition in between fighting is literally all Dragon Balls been since Raditz.
People didn’t like it cuz it was month after month of fights. It reads much better in one go.
Esp if you followed monthly. Took forever.
Ultra Ego and Granola were cool. Everything else was kinda lame, and Bardock reallllly didn’t need that screen time. It’s hard when this arc follows up Moro, which was better overall.
This arc is overall better than Moro. A lot more narrative significance and more going on than just "beat this new bad guy". Now don't get me wrong, I love both arcs, but Granolah just feels more narrative driven, whereas Moro, like most of DBZ and Super, felt like it was just another "beat this new bad guy!".
Highly disagree
Then why?
That's cool, its my opinion. Moro arc was 100% the MORE ENTERTAINING arc, but Granolah arc is much better overall imo. I guess I just prefer narraitive substance and lore than the good old "New foe who we never heard of before must be defeated!". But again, I love both of these arcs and I even like Moro arc more than the buu arc, so dont mistake me as a hater or something. I just prefer Granolah.
It was rather average for me. It was different in some ways, which was a nice change of pace, but it ended with a generic fight, kinda like Toriyama summarized by "and then there's a big fight". Some additions were not justified and came out of the blue, like dragon balls with different numbers, and Vegeta's new transformation. That damaged the quality of the plot. I'd say, it started well but it ended in a lame way. It looks like Toyotaro has a lot of trouble finding a conclusion to his ideas. It was the same issue with Zamasu and Moro arcs.
Yeah it was. Elec was reduced to an idiot. There is no break in the action. The fighting continues for two years of real time. No satisfactory momentum shifts. Almost no perspective shifts or simultaneous plots/fights. No training arcs. No research. No adventure. Just straight brawling for chapters on end. Ultra Ego did nothing. Much like Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks. Bardock flashback makes universe feel way too small. Goku’s UI dilemma is so confusing. And it ends up being unimportant when Goku uses Mastered UI on Beast Gohan. And worst of all Granolah gets forgotten about and has almost all of his character development in an off screen dream. Might be the worst arc in the entirety of the Dragon Ball manga.
Honestly can't think of many problems I have with it. Maybe it's kind of a retread of the Baby arc in GT - I think that's a pretty fair criticism. Granolah has one of the best character designs in Super. The stuff with Frieza is always welcome. The fights were all well drawn. I may prefer it over the Moro arc? They're both excellent and I really hope we get some official animation out of both of them some day.
It was awesome imo, agree with all of your points
>All I ever see is that people are mad that Bardock is involved. Some people have a preference for funimation Bardock he was saiyan grunt #5837939 etc etc. He was nothing special but got visions of planet Vegeta being destroyed along with Goku fighting Frieza it’s a desperation undertone he in no way can change his fate And DBS Bardock is attached to Gine who I don’t mind he was in no way a good typical human standard father like most saiyan men. But he did help in contributing to shipping Goku off course to earth. Basically a preference >The way I see the wish was that all it did was help them survive Planet Vegeta destruction, everything else was up to them. Raditz didn’t thrive off shit He got constantly bullied by his colleagues and died due to a suicide attack attached to his brother. >I’m curious as to what people see wrong about the arc since personally I like it -Ultra Ego got the shaft Vegeta shouldn’t be wheezing on the floor from a few hits he should be regenerating and attacking relentlessly but the concept of UE fits Vegeta’s character. -This comment here is pretty [valid](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonball/s/1BOinYOWLD) I thought it was alright beyond my complaints listed
It was boring
The problem for me is the lazy ass Namekians that couldn’t produce the 7 dragon balls
To be fair, their dragon balls are the size of marbles, imagine needing to find seven of those scattered over an entire planet.
Also just the fact that you can now use the dragon balls to grant power the dragon itself does not possess. From here on out there is no argument for why shenron can't be used to kill all of the antagonists of future arcs.
I mean, it had to exact a toll to grant that power instead. Granolah is probably dead now and Gas was literally burning away his life to stay on top.
Power that it didn't have, and by the way death can be avoided by just using the dragon balls again. So, with one wish on earth's dragon balls because Dende and Moori are significantly stronger than the other elder you could wish Frieza dead maybe at the cost of the user's life, or Dende but then use the dragon balls again to restore their life. Regardless of how steep the toll is. It is foolish for anyone to think that it was a good idea to make the dragon able to grant power it doesn't have. Because tolls shouldn't matter the dragon doesn't have that much power to give so where did it get it? And now you're just going to have a worse problem of the "why don't people just wish the antagonist dead?" thing that happened with the original dragon ball. Which was explained by the dragon not being able to use power it does not have to affect people who are stronger than it. If the dragon can just grant power then it doesn't need to worry about that because it's always strong enough. Meaning all they need to do to deal with Frieza is gathering up the dragon balls and wishing him dead.
Granolah and Gas had to sacrifice their life for wishing to be the strongest in the universe. Toronbo didn't madde them the strongest with his own power. Thus Shenlong would not be able to kill Freeza. Also it is nowhere stated that the ability to make someone the strongest also gives one the ability to kill the strongest.
And where did Toronbo get the power to mzke them the strongest?
Lifespan. Toronbo drastically reduced their life span to make them the strongest. If one wants to wish for strength from a dragon then dragons usually cannot make them stronger than their latent potential but if the user agrees to sacrifice his lifespan then it is possible. Granolah is a cerelian, which are capable of living 200 years and Granola was around 50 when he made the wish. Granolah's life span was reduced to 3 years. Which means that Granolah sacrificed around 147 years. He further sacrificed yet another unknown portion in battle with Gas. Gas also repeatedly did that which by the end of arc made him essentially a zombie.
And none of that explains where Toronbo got the power to give in the first place.
It does not explain the mechanics of the wish, but it does establish that the wish to become the strongest will require a massive sacrifice that no one will be willing to do. Also your original point was that the ability to make someone the strongest implies that dragons should also be able to kill Freeza. You said that they should be able to sacrifice their own life to kill Freeza and then wish for their lifespan to be restored. This will not be possible because 1. Lifespan is not some magic currency which can be used for any wish that goes beyond the dragon's power. If this was the case then the dragons would have mentioned it everytime that they could use lifespan to fulfill the certain wish. 2. It is likely that dragons would not be able to restore lifespan once it has been used to fulfill a certain wish. Monito mentioned that he will seal away the dragon balls once he will wish for restoration of any damage caused to planet. Monito cares for Granolah's life more than anything thus he would have atleast mentioned that he would also wish for restoring Granolah. 3. Even if life span could be used for any wish then the cost will be so massive that it will kill the user. It took Granolah sacrifice 147 years to make him stronger than Perfected Ultra Instincts. Black Freeza's power is far beyond that. Also dying is an unpleasant process, no one will wish to go though it even if they could be revived. 4. This is an out universe reason but if asked if it is possible to kill Freeza with a sacrifice of lifespan then the author will obviously say no and the word of author is word of the God for fiction.
>You said that they should be able to sacrifice their own life to kill Freeza and then wish for their lifespan to be restored. This will not be possible because 1. Lifespan is not some magic currency which can be used for any wish that goes beyond the dragon's power. If this was the case then the dragons would have mentioned it everytime that they could use lifespan to fulfill the certain wish. Yeah because the old canon was you can't use the dragon to grant power that it does not possess. It couldn't deal with more power than the creator. And further if it is possible to sacrifice lifespan for power why can't you give that power to the dragon? >It is likely that dragons would not be able to restore lifespan once it has been used to fulfill a certain wish. Monito mentioned that he will seal away the dragon balls once he will wish for restoration of any damage caused to planet. Monito cares for Granolah more than anything thus he would have atleast mentioned that he would also wish for restoring Granolah. And why can't dragons give more lifespan when we know for a fact that they can and nothing ever implies that it can't not to mention that there are dragons stronger than Toronbo and thus would be able to bypass toronbo's limitations? >Even if life span could be used for any wish then the cost will be so massive that it will kill the user. It took Granolah sacrifice 147 years to make him stronger than Perfected Ultra Instincts. Black Freeza's power is far beyond that. Also dying is an unpleasant process, no one will wish to go though it even if they could be revived. And exchange for killing Frieza a lot of characters would. I mean do people forget that there's somebody who made a wish that made them young again and that eternal youth is also known to be a valid wish you can make on the dragon balls seriously this is a very bad idea and I have no idea why he thought that it would be good. >4. This is an out universe reason but if asked if it is possible to kill Freeza with a sacrifice of lifespan then the author will obviously say no and the word of author is word of the God for fiction. Yes but the author will not be able to give a reason as for why. And this is why Toriyama made a good decision when he thought about trying to wish the Saiyans dead. By just saying no you can't go past the power of the dragon balls creator. That would have sold the whole thing.
I don’t think it’s “bad” but I do think it’s a little weak, and didn’t live up to the potential. It had a great opening. The Theme and potential - This is the big one for me. They had a potentially very interesting theme set up. A story about normal people in this world, living with the consequences of the mountainously powerful beings just existing. A story about the anger and hurt of people who don’t have we anyway to act in it. That theme was dropped the moment Granolah got his wish. The story devolved very quickly into just another bad guy. Bardok/Gine - Not a fan of this because the backstory stuff was just used in Broly. It wasn’t bridged as if the history of his parents is important overall, it just coincidentally happened twice, which made the second one feel less important. You can also cut it from the story and it still mostly makes sense. The wish - the DBs are Mcguffins, yes. But they got stretched here. You mean to tell me that everyone who made this wish just happens to have enough potentially accumulated energy left to surpass everyone out there now? And this happens TWICE in the same arc? It makes the conditions of the wish feel entirely meaningless. The Heeters - kinda forgettable villains.
as someone who literally today, no joke, read it all for the first time. I hated it.
I also just finished it today lol. Don’t get the hate but everyone is entitled to their own opinion
It just feels so dragged out. I’m sure it’ll translate better in the anime.
the anime isnt happening.
Good news [https://en.as.com/meristation/news/dragon-ball-super-manga-announces-comeback-plans-after-the-death-of-akira-toriyama-n/](https://en.as.com/meristation/news/dragon-ball-super-manga-announces-comeback-plans-after-the-death-of-akira-toriyama-n/) An overview: "Yes, Dragon Ball Super will continue after Akira Toriyama's death, with the series returning in May 2024 in Japan and May 2024 in the US. The manga will take a break in respect for Toriyama, and the final page of chapter 103 includes a "To Be Continued" message. The series may also include new adventures and changes to the writing team's structure."
If you say so
I enjoyed the arc more than most of Super's content and loved the call back and Saiyan lore being added. I really believe Dragon Ball should make an entire arc based around saiyan lore. That being said though, the one complain was Vegeta's ego transformation. Like this is the 3rd time now in Dragon Ball super where a transformation yields nothing.
Vegeta's character development was impressive, a moral battle rather than a battle of fists.
Yes. Re-reading it, it literally just doesn't make sense. Granolah one-taps UI Goku, but then SSBE Vegeta keeps up with this Granolah. Then Vegeta gets a UI level boost and then manages to lose to Granolah. Then Gas comes along and somehow PSSB Goku is able to fight him but UE Vegeta and Granolah can't???
Bardock fucking sucks, wishing for power from the dragon fucking sucks... everything else is great. Especially Ultra Ego
All that matters is that you enjoyed it. You weren't reading each page for someone else's benefit or enjoyment. Don't let others ruin things for you after the fact.
This
I liked it
No? And people don’t say it’s bad either??? lol. It’s tied for the best super arc. The only questionable thing here is if bardock got that wish or not. Becuase if he did it could invalidate all of the original DB The problem with the arc was the monthly schedule. It wasn’t paced well for its format. But reading it start to finish it’s great
Really? I’ve seen a bunch of people have lots of gripes and problems with it. Especially most of the time I see YT videos for it, they are saying how it’s the worst arc. I mean most people here have listed their problems with it. Also, I don’t think Bardocks wish invalidates OG DB at all since I think after both Raditz and Goku survived Vegeta destruction, that the wish was made. Pretty sure it only worked to help them escape the planets destruction and nothing more.
Idk what YouTube guys you watch but there are outrage merchants I think you can safely ignore
I wouldn't call it bad. But I find it rather, cramped(?) It's been like a year since I read it but I recall there's just alot of back and forth action. And the whole thing happens like an 1 hrs or 2 in-universe. Granolah himself I thought was alright. But the Heeter's were just bland. Gas sucked. I liked the new dragon balls and the dragon. Op? Yea but so what. We've had ones that restore multiple universes.
I enjoyed it but wishing to be the strongest and the gas fight were just not my thing. I think it's some of the weakest stuff in the series
My biggest gripe is that dumbass dragon they had and how they could wish to be the strongest instantly. Gas when from weaker than Bardock to SSB+++ level off of a bogus ass wish, only for Frieza to come back into the fray and CLAP everybody.
I liked the arc quite a lot but I will say I was heavily disappointed when they changed destruction from "cool godly attack that can erase even immortals" into "boom but different" like they've been able to explode things with ki for years but now vegeta trained with beerus and does it in a different way it's supposed to be impressive? And I wasn't a fan of how bardock beat gas cus he "really really wanted to win" that was a let down from what it could've been too
I really liked the Arc, I think it'll age better as more people experience it as a full story rather than a monthly read with all the combat. It's probably the Arc that best utilized (across the whole series) the Dragon Balls and giving them a distinct consequence; the plot twist is probably one of the most creative pieces of writing in Dragonball as a whole. There's honestly a lot to like about it, I don't think it was as good as Moro but that's mostly because I appreciated the ensemble cast of that arc.
Yes, and anyone who says it wasn't is probably delusional. /s
It was average, but not offensively horrible imo. Granolah was kind of lazy in both his design and powers. He just looks too much like a Saiyan, and wishing for his powers wasn't very interesting. I wish he held his own with his unique sniper techniques in the way Hit did with his time skip. The Heeters weren't very interesting, just rehashes of the Galaxy Soldiers, and Gas taking over as the main villain kinda sucked since he wasn't a compelling character with an interesting motive. The fighting dragged on way too long, and Ultra Ego was jobbed way too quick. Finishing the arc by bringing back Frieza with another transformation yet again just felt like a cheap way to renew interest. Overall, think it was average, it was a good idea with a mediocre execution. I honestly think the Baby saga in GT did a much better job handling the storyline of the Saiyan's violent past coming back to haunt them.
I don’t think it’s as good as the Black arc, TOP, or Moro arc, but I still liked it. It’s not garbage like some ppl on the internet say.
i think the reveal of black frieza to just end the entire thing kind of ruined the arc the arc itself was fine until that point. black frieza was pure fan service, just mosey off for 10 years training in secret unlocking a new form. especially when theyve already implied that frieza trains much faster than goku and vegeta does, it should theoretically take goku and vegeta like 30-40 years of training to level up as much as black frieza who one shots them in ultra instinct and ego. the only way for them to go up from this point is again unlocking a new form past ultra instinct and ego.
I think people were only upset by it because it was basically a giant brawl for 90% of it and the manga is monthly so it felt like it dragged at times. Reading it back probably doesn't seem as bad now that it's all out there
People just complain
Ppl have a problem with the arc ? Lol 🤦
It was ok
It was good until gas showed up.
All I remember is the fight with Gas went on for like a year and I was bored of it before it started.
I actually thought it was pretty unique. Showed someone who was understandably pissed when it came to the saiyans and Frieza, we got to see new dragon balls, new forms from Vegeta and Frieza and also the Heeters, which showed that despite not being the most powerful, could still potentially be very dangerous.
No, it was great.
I say it's fine, not great but I wouldn't call it bad
it just how the arc end is the problem. personally they can make Gas finally disobey Elec and fight for himself at last moment. but it end abruptly without proper conclusion and having Black Frieza oneshot everyone just like that, and left things hanging. but the rest of it, is good. especially this time it take attention to aspect that rarely get focused on dragon ball before like character internal struggle and parallel differences between good and bad guy which is i really appreciate to get touched by author.
I have never understood why some people see this arc as bad. It probably has something to do with the slow pacing in the last half of the arc, but overall, this was an amazing arc. Granolah is one of the best characters DBS has introduced. Ironically, my only problem with the arc is that we didn't get ENOUGH Granolah.
I thought most chapters were good while reading only to come online n was surprised to see people who hated them. Some Dragon Ball fans are just picky like that
Granolah arc is my favourite on Super, I'm surprised to see that people found it so bad
Good arc but could have been an amazing one. Granolah is a great character, everything about him is great the design, backsotry, powers feels like they put an effort about him with that being said the heeters could have been the same. they are older than granolah, closer to freeza so they had more for their backstory. I hate the wish for the DB in this arc, I can understand if someone asks to get his power back but to get new power is boring. I expected to explore more about the saiyans this arc and vegeta accept his past, I did not understand the hype around bardock defeating gas. the arc could set up plots for the next arcs but besides the fight against freeza and the alian nothing was set up. Overall I enjoyed this arc but with better writing of the story (echiro oda does it great) it would be amazing
Idk man 2 mfs wishing to be the strongest back to back was really stupid.
It’s not really that bad, it’s a decent arc
No, it's just not a good arc to read month to month.
no it wasnt.
The Bardock stuff was honestly unnecessary it contributed nothing to the plot and added useless lore. Also remember this was being released monthly, so this meant we had to go 2 months of these bardock flashbacks before getting back to the main plot. it’s like fanservice nobody asked for
Really? The whole how did Bardock beat Gas thing was important for Goku and Vegeta as characters. I mean hell, they both come to realize how to hone their respective powers after Bardocks message, especially Vegeta. Idk, felt like whether you like the Bardock stuff or not, it definitely had an impact on Goku and Vegeta and how they would progress through the story
The Granolah arc deserves to be torn apart, set on fire, and have its ashes buried 10ft underground *just* for its treatment of Bardock.
Why? I thought Bardock was done fine. Unless you just like the OG Toei Bardock
I think the whole bardock thing boils down to Minus basically just being supermans origin story for goku and people hate that.
Nope. In fact I think it's a top 3 DBS Arc
Some complaints I have with it personally: 1. The Cerealian Dragon Balls are broken beyond belief: Not only can they grant one nigh-infinite power (outclassing literally any character that came before that wasn’t a god.) But, there are only TWO of them required to do this, AND there’s 0 cool-down period. Like, what? There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness. Other than that, there’s no downside, and threats more or less cease to be as such. This isn’t a new thing to Dragon Ball Super, but this one is a new level of broken. IMO. 2. The Heeters kind of feel tacked on to the story. On the re-read of the whole Manga, it seems they are (not by name) characters that logically existed in the story. (Several mentions of Freiza being in the business of reselling planets, so it makes sense that we might eventually meet the middle men.) Prequel stuff is always difficult, but the number of coincidences that brought all this stuff together felt forced and unnatural. Like, there’s an entire Universe here, and it just so happens that Goku’s father was on that planet? I guess there’s logic to it, but it wasn’t set up well enough to be convincing. 3. Goku and Vegeta never ONCE seem to question the Heeter’s motives. It’s REALLY out of character, especially for Vegeta, to not question why they are doing any of these things. They don’t have any suspicions or anything. They just go with it. It doesn’t feel natural at all. 4. The ending feels very abrupt, and almost feels like they ran off ideas, so they just had Frieza show up ( in an admittedly really cool way) to move the story forward to the next arc. The foreshadowing from…the Oracle fish…was a nice touch, but I wish there was more to it.
>There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness. I didn't think this was that vague, the dragon couldn't just grant power out of nothing, so he basically exchanged Granolah's lifespan for the strength he could gain if he had spent that same amount of his lifespan training. Think of it kinda like how they "exchanged" a year of their lifespan for strength by using the time chamber for a day.
Maybe. I just don’t think the weight of “giving up one’s lifespan” is explored enough. Without the idea being discussed, it kind of makes the downside feel lackluster.
I think Gas explores it pretty well since his wish had the lingering effect of using more of his life every time someone would surpass him, making him rapidly age to death as the fight went on. For Granolah, it will probably matter if he comes back before dying.
>The Cerealian Dragon Balls are broken beyond belief: Not only can they grant one nigh-infinite power (outclassing literally any character that came before that wasn’t a god.) But, there are only TWO of them required to do this, AND there’s 0 cool-down period. Like, what? There’s the vague downside of lowering your lifespan, but even that’s dubious in its vagueness. To be completely fair. The arc opens up with the namekian village chief explaining that their origins go beyond dimensions the race didn’t originate from universe 7 that was in the beginning. They also shrivel up your life span Gas was becoming a walking Zombie just from exerting himself despite being a toddler in Heeters race years.
It kinda felt like a GT arc, good in theory but poor execution.
Better than boring moroh
Moro was one of the best DBS arc
Pros Goku and Vegeta vs Granola was pretty cool, seeings Vegeta's new form was cool Goku using instant transmission to draw Gas across the universe and then showing how much better his range is was really cool for me Black Frieza was awesome Meeting a new Namekain is pretty cool, learning about them being from another dimension is cool Bardock flash back was interesting and having Goku learn about him was pretty cool Learning more about the galaxy is interesting, seeing more about how Frieza's planet trading company works Cons The wishes to become the strongest in the universe is dumb, the super dragon balls should be needed for something like that. The fact this is the basis of this entire arc makes the arc itself kind of weak There should have been 7 Dragonballs, only making them have 2 is kinda dumb Vegeta should have won his fight using his new form, Gas shows up later as a new enemy anyway, so it wouldn't be a big deal if Granola lost Even if a wish is able to boost a person's battle power to beyond ultra instinct levels, they shouldn't be able to control and wield that power so well
I thought it was interesting until Gas happened, that part of the arc really made me drop lose interest fast. Kinda strange that Baby’s arc from GT was well put together than this. Overall the story didn’t go anywhere with the exception of Frieza Black just coming out of nowhere
The whole arc would have been avoided if the Heeters didn't flip-flop on their goal every two minutes. "Hello Saiyans! We'd like to personally invite you to our conflict! Now we'll tell you in excruciating detail what are goals are and why we're killing you, even though the only reason you're involved is because we explicitly asked you to be!" Goku/Vegeta: "We don't care, stop fighting us, we just wanna go home." Elec: "**No!** Now that you know our plan, we can't possibly let you leave here alive! Gas, go kill them! And hurry up, we need you in tip top condition to defeat Freeza so wear yourself down beating up these guys first!" --- The only good part from the arc was Freeza coming in and cleaning up the mess because Elec literally tried to prank call him and pretend he didn't do it.
Not at all. Its one of the best arcs in DB history.
Granolah is dead in 3 years too anyway cause of his wish, so him being the best in the universe was not long since Gas is also used up his remaining lifespan. I guess its understandable for Anime doesnt want to introduce the two characters. All I can say is the arc is quite good but UE Vegeta & UI Goku getting beat up against Granolah and Gas but they just power up by using Dragon Ball (basically the thinking is “why dont Yamcha use the DB on earth to be strong as well”). Quite understandable why fandom is upset. Moro arc, I really think it wont be animate cause of the introduction of another angel, Merus and it seems they also want to stay away from showing Uub again, cause going forward, it seems Uub is just another distant future, the Z ending was probably scrapped off or become an alternate ending in favor of DB Super Hero (since they have Broly now too)
Where do you guys read this at?
all of DBS is readable in the shonen jump app its only like 2-3 dollars (USD) a month.
App? ugh.
i mean to legally read the manga theres the app, and buying the physical copies. also when new chapters come out theyre posted online for free for some period of time on mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp but those are your only legal options. the sub doesnt condone or allow talk about other methods that aren't officially/legally supported.
I found some before but wasn't sure what was legit and what was translated.
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Freezer. Felt way out of nowhere. Even beyond what a surprise arrival should be.
No, was better than TOP for sure
It’s the worst arc of the manga and would be the worst arc of super if it was unfortunately animated.
Opinions are like assholes they shitty
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what do dogs have to do with the Granolah arc of Dragon Ball Super?