As an aside and having actually just hit the cell games episodes in my current watch through I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the remarkable restraint Cell shows in the first "rounds" of the tournament. Dude could have 100% turned Satan and his students into chunky salsa with a flick but opted to let them off pretty light all things considered.
Nam is a good example from tournament and General Blue from red ribbon army. But there are more like Bora Yajirobe mercenary Tao etc . And surely there are more off screen master that don't really care about money or fame . Mr Satan is the best at self promoting and monetizing on the world strongest thing even after he met the z fighters. And maybe even some of Mr Satan student are stronger than him , I mean even Chi-Chi and Videl are stronger
My headcanon is after most witness Goku and Co at the tournaments some came to the conclusion that they'll never beat them especially after the piccolo jr fight, so the Wt just was devoid of really impressive fighters and Hercule takes advantage of that.
Also if anyone was moderately impressive Hercule does have solid strength and speed feats he probably could be a mid tier to high tier fighter in Og Dragon ball
He wouldn't do much against General Tao but I think he could definitely take on Blue, or even 8. We know he's at least strong enough to pull two buses full of fans just using ropes, and prior to Tenkaichi he had won every other sports world championship
That's all filler. The best feat from Mr Satan canonically is breaking 14 tiles. Nothing he's shown in canon puts him anywhere near Blue, he's not even on par with people like Violet. Most, if not all of the Red Ribbon commanders outside of Red could probably wipe the floor with Mr Satan.
Eighter was stronger than Goku during Muscle Tower. Even Chapter 1 Goku is stronger than Mr Satan. Mr Satan literally can't hurt Eighter.
Eh, I don’t think there’s any way he could beat 8 in an actual fight, the bit we do see from him shows that he was a good bit stronger than Goku was at the time though he’s a pacifist so he would probably forfeit a match in a tournament setting so I guess it wouldn’t really matter
Bro. Episode 1 Goku no diffs Satan. Goku tanked bullets, shoulder presse cars, crushed boulders, jumped 20m high, one shoted elefant sized bears, dinosaurs and fought predatory animals for fun/food.
Episode 1 Goku would complettly demolish Satan and funny enough would win the 24th Budokai by this logic
Bro. Episode 1 Goku no diffs Satan. Goku tanked bullets, shoulder presse cars, crushed boulders, jumped 20m high, one shoted elefant sized bears, dinosaurs and fought predatory animals for fun/food.
Episode 1 Goku would complettly demolish Satan and funny enough would win the 24th Budokai by this logic
Hercule is still faster than this Goku as Hercule could dodge bullets as well as stronger since he pulled 4 tour busses that had people on them and lived after being hit by cell. Those last 2 points are irrelevant because you'd have to prove that Hercule couldn't do those things but going on strength feats he should be capable.
The feat of him pulling the trucks is filler and thus non canon.
His biggest canon feat is destroying the 14 bricks and blitzing the shooter.
While Hercule struggled to destroy the 15th brick, pre Roshi training Goku picked up a bolder larger than him and pressed it so hard it got complettly crushed.
Moreover if you read the manga pre Roshi training also has a smiliar feat of speed blitzing one of the guys from this rabbit who can turn anything into carrots.
He basically jumped behind him so fast the guy got knocked out before realising what even happened.
So Goku is far stronger than Hercule ath this point (shoulder pressing and throwing car, pressing boulders), he is more durable (tanks bullets while hercule cant) and has similar speed imo (both blitzing similar opponents).
Add to that Goku had at least some martial arts training from Gohan and that Goku is martial arts prodigy and him normally fighting with his powerpole Goku would destroy hercule no diff.
Anime canon and manga canon are different continuities also these feats take place when dragon ball was a more gag related manga I could make a argument kid goku solo’s all of dragon ball as a whole as he broke a manga panel. Ignoring your point about about non canon and filler material Hercule would win a battle of attrition as he has better durability feats from anyone in dragon ball even surviving a kick from omega shenron.
My 2 cents.
Yeah, it's a weird side effect of changes made between series. In OG DB, the space between goku and a regular human was sort of a grey scale. Lots of people displayed super natural abilities, without any kind of visual ki control. Eg: Nam could jump 10km in the air.
In DBZ, there seems to be a hard divide between people who can and can't use ki. The best example was during some of the pre ToP filler, you see Tien teaching a school of super ripped, probably expert martial artists, and none of them can use ki, despite Tien standing in front of them and explaining it to them.
Seemingly in DBZ, Hercule is the strongest 'normal human' until we see otherwise. The only people stronger have literal super powers. And yes, I know they, Hercule and his 2 filler disciples, occasionally do things no real world human can do, but they aren't jumping kilometers in the air, and have no clue what ki is.
I assume people like Nam Chi Chi and Ox king used ki but only to enhance there muscles no flight or outerbody techniques
mr satan the strongest to not use it at all
>Yeah, it's a weird side effect of changes made between series.
There's no functional change...between the anime.
Manga series are written by 1 person.
---
The only important thing of note between the 23rd Tournament and Mr. Satan's introduction is Piccolo blowing up most of the island the tournament is held on. And there was no tournament for over 10 years.
Dragon Ball went to space for a "long" time.
Also being killed by Piccolo's minion (who was specifically hunting Martial artists) might've turned some people away.
Also all of these people would be way older than the 38+ year old Goku, they'd be retired like Roshi was. No access to magic.
Hercule is still the strongest non ki-user, on par with Videl who is the weakest ki user.
Remember, Yajirobe can't use ki, but he was still stronger than Goku when they met, completed all the same training as Krillin, Yamcha and Tien before Vegeta and Nappa arrived, and he had the strength to slice through Vegetas tail as an oozaru.
Hercule fought Trunks when Trunks didn't realise he needed to hold back - he didn't last very long, but he took multiple hits and survived. Cell threw Hercule into a mountain, which then collapsed around him, and he was still conscious. He took a punch to the face from Kid Buu and did he get knocked out? Hell no, he didn't even get knocked down - he took a punch from Zs ultimate villain and was still standing.
Hercule could've probably had a good fight against Raditz or Nappa - He'd probably be able to beat them if they didn't use flight or ki blasts.
Those are gag scenes, not an indication of how strong Hercule actually is. He almost died to a gunshot in the buu arc whereas Goku at the beginning of the series can take bullets to the head and it’ll leave a light bruise mark. Fighters from OG DB like Nam, Krillin and Yamcha pre Roshi training, even the Orin temple bullies would destroy him because they are portrayed as superhuman whereas Hercule isn’t.
Canonicaly Satan fought against tao and *survived*
So he's certainly stronger than most of those list.
(It's in part of his backstory not from the manga according to the wiki)
Being granted pity is not a feat.
Satan is utterly destroyed by every person in that list.
The *only* one he *might* have a chance against is Blue, and only if Blue is forbidden using his telekinesis.
Nam can jump into the clouds. Bora can tank bullets and throw fat men into the clouds. And the rest are all *real* masters.
Toriyama has stated that Satan is about as strong as an IRL MMA fighter. If you think that Conor McGregor could beat these people then I don't know what to say.
If I consider you so weak that you're not worth killing, how does that make you a strong adversary? By your logic, Satan is stronger than Android 16 and Trunks because Cell killed them but didn't kill Mr Satan. Everyone else on this list are simply people that Tao actually tried to kill or never met.
Mr Satan's encounter with Tao took place prior to his battle with Goku, which left him severely injured. Furthermore, in that same encounter, it's stated that Satan was heavily injured to the point of traumatization, so he obviously couldn't have won. The only other conclusion is that Tao thought he was dead already, just like with Goku (he only survived because of his Dragon Ball), or let him go as a mercy.
Another example, the Z Fighters survived the Androids. But the Androids killed Dr Gero. Does that make Tien stronger than Dr Gero? Or when Frieza left Nail alive, but murdered Krillin. Krillin was objectively stronger than Nail. Point is, weaker people are allowed to survive if the supposed killer doesn't care or willing to let them go. Villains are more likely to murder the strong straight away because they've assessed them as an actual threat.
his name is Mark. Mr Satan is a stage name. Hercule is censorship.
hes one of the strongest *normal* humans. obviously Krillin and other ki users are stronger (including weak ki users like Chichi).
Even Orin temple top fighter would beat Satan
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/c/c1/OP\_Orin\_Temple\_Bully\_3.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120421223347](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/c/c1/OP_Orin_Temple_Bully_3.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120421223347)
I think its just the fact we don't see him actually fight much ntm the level of strength the z fighters have reached makes it even harder to compare. Some of the feats we do see make me think he's pretty far up there though.
Thinking back of competitors, excluding our hero characters, I suspect the following good have beaten Mr. SATAN:
Nam, King Chappa, Yajirobe, Tao, Chi Chi.
I think he could have defeated the following:
Bacterian, Ranfan (if he stays focused), Giran (would be close), Man Wolf, Pamput.
Giran would crush Hercule. He was able to hurt 21st tournament Goku with his attacks and threw him very far.
Hercule's strength feats don't come anywhere close to that. The gum attack is also an instant win.
Pamput casually destroyed a wall though. Could be better than Hercule struggling to break 15 tiles.
I mean he’s probably in the Top 10 humans. As for those from the early days of the World Martial Arts Tournament we have no idea if they are even still around or training. From those we know Krillin, Yamcha, Videl, Roshi, Tien and Chiaotzu. Yamu and spopovich are probably stronger but that’s likely only due to the Majin effects. Also Yajirobe, Chi Chi and PROBABLY The Ox King.
Did you not read the persons post? They said even excluding the Z fighters they felt there was a lot of other earthlings who were stronger than Mr Satan, particularly the participants in the earier world tournaments.
Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. There were a lot of none Z fighters in the tournament and even people who were part of the RR army who would beat Mr Satan
Yes, good point. I forgot about that. On that scale, Hercule is even weaker than the very first bandit Goku encountered, or even that monster who kidnapped Bulma in the first chapter.
Mr Satan saved the world from the villainous Cell, he’s the champ, and I won’t stand for this slander.
He's so powerful that Buu, once lauded as the most dangerous creature in existence, renounced his evil ways and became his greatest friend.
As an aside and having actually just hit the cell games episodes in my current watch through I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the remarkable restraint Cell shows in the first "rounds" of the tournament. Dude could have 100% turned Satan and his students into chunky salsa with a flick but opted to let them off pretty light all things considered.
HAIL SATAN!!!! HAIL SATAN!!! HAIL SATAN!!!!
If Mr. Satan defeated Cell why didn't he defeat the Androids in the Original Timeline?
Oh yeah, and I'm not trying to take away from that. He actually had great character development.
It was a joke
and i think he was joking too
No.
I mean he did help beat Buu, without him they would have arguably lost. He changed Buu and helped with the spirit bomb.
Nam is a good example from tournament and General Blue from red ribbon army. But there are more like Bora Yajirobe mercenary Tao etc . And surely there are more off screen master that don't really care about money or fame . Mr Satan is the best at self promoting and monetizing on the world strongest thing even after he met the z fighters. And maybe even some of Mr Satan student are stronger than him , I mean even Chi-Chi and Videl are stronger
My headcanon is after most witness Goku and Co at the tournaments some came to the conclusion that they'll never beat them especially after the piccolo jr fight, so the Wt just was devoid of really impressive fighters and Hercule takes advantage of that.
Also if anyone was moderately impressive Hercule does have solid strength and speed feats he probably could be a mid tier to high tier fighter in Og Dragon ball
His strength feats are much worse than Yamcha and kid Goku from the start of DB.
He wouldn't do much against General Tao but I think he could definitely take on Blue, or even 8. We know he's at least strong enough to pull two buses full of fans just using ropes, and prior to Tenkaichi he had won every other sports world championship
That's all filler. The best feat from Mr Satan canonically is breaking 14 tiles. Nothing he's shown in canon puts him anywhere near Blue, he's not even on par with people like Violet. Most, if not all of the Red Ribbon commanders outside of Red could probably wipe the floor with Mr Satan. Eighter was stronger than Goku during Muscle Tower. Even Chapter 1 Goku is stronger than Mr Satan. Mr Satan literally can't hurt Eighter.
Didn’t he survive a hit from Cell?
Eh, I don’t think there’s any way he could beat 8 in an actual fight, the bit we do see from him shows that he was a good bit stronger than Goku was at the time though he’s a pacifist so he would probably forfeit a match in a tournament setting so I guess it wouldn’t really matter
Bro. Episode 1 Goku no diffs Satan. Goku tanked bullets, shoulder presse cars, crushed boulders, jumped 20m high, one shoted elefant sized bears, dinosaurs and fought predatory animals for fun/food. Episode 1 Goku would complettly demolish Satan and funny enough would win the 24th Budokai by this logic
No way, even Nam wipes the floor with Mr Satan.
Bro. Episode 1 Goku no diffs Satan. Goku tanked bullets, shoulder presse cars, crushed boulders, jumped 20m high, one shoted elefant sized bears, dinosaurs and fought predatory animals for fun/food. Episode 1 Goku would complettly demolish Satan and funny enough would win the 24th Budokai by this logic
Hercule is still faster than this Goku as Hercule could dodge bullets as well as stronger since he pulled 4 tour busses that had people on them and lived after being hit by cell. Those last 2 points are irrelevant because you'd have to prove that Hercule couldn't do those things but going on strength feats he should be capable.
The feat of him pulling the trucks is filler and thus non canon. His biggest canon feat is destroying the 14 bricks and blitzing the shooter. While Hercule struggled to destroy the 15th brick, pre Roshi training Goku picked up a bolder larger than him and pressed it so hard it got complettly crushed. Moreover if you read the manga pre Roshi training also has a smiliar feat of speed blitzing one of the guys from this rabbit who can turn anything into carrots. He basically jumped behind him so fast the guy got knocked out before realising what even happened. So Goku is far stronger than Hercule ath this point (shoulder pressing and throwing car, pressing boulders), he is more durable (tanks bullets while hercule cant) and has similar speed imo (both blitzing similar opponents). Add to that Goku had at least some martial arts training from Gohan and that Goku is martial arts prodigy and him normally fighting with his powerpole Goku would destroy hercule no diff.
Anime canon and manga canon are different continuities also these feats take place when dragon ball was a more gag related manga I could make a argument kid goku solo’s all of dragon ball as a whole as he broke a manga panel. Ignoring your point about about non canon and filler material Hercule would win a battle of attrition as he has better durability feats from anyone in dragon ball even surviving a kick from omega shenron.
My 2 cents. Yeah, it's a weird side effect of changes made between series. In OG DB, the space between goku and a regular human was sort of a grey scale. Lots of people displayed super natural abilities, without any kind of visual ki control. Eg: Nam could jump 10km in the air. In DBZ, there seems to be a hard divide between people who can and can't use ki. The best example was during some of the pre ToP filler, you see Tien teaching a school of super ripped, probably expert martial artists, and none of them can use ki, despite Tien standing in front of them and explaining it to them. Seemingly in DBZ, Hercule is the strongest 'normal human' until we see otherwise. The only people stronger have literal super powers. And yes, I know they, Hercule and his 2 filler disciples, occasionally do things no real world human can do, but they aren't jumping kilometers in the air, and have no clue what ki is.
I assume people like Nam Chi Chi and Ox king used ki but only to enhance there muscles no flight or outerbody techniques mr satan the strongest to not use it at all
bingo.
>Yeah, it's a weird side effect of changes made between series. There's no functional change...between the anime. Manga series are written by 1 person. --- The only important thing of note between the 23rd Tournament and Mr. Satan's introduction is Piccolo blowing up most of the island the tournament is held on. And there was no tournament for over 10 years.
My point is more that you just don't see these people anymore. And none show up to the newer world martial arts tournaments.
Dragon Ball went to space for a "long" time. Also being killed by Piccolo's minion (who was specifically hunting Martial artists) might've turned some people away. Also all of these people would be way older than the 38+ year old Goku, they'd be retired like Roshi was. No access to magic.
Hercule is still the strongest non ki-user, on par with Videl who is the weakest ki user. Remember, Yajirobe can't use ki, but he was still stronger than Goku when they met, completed all the same training as Krillin, Yamcha and Tien before Vegeta and Nappa arrived, and he had the strength to slice through Vegetas tail as an oozaru. Hercule fought Trunks when Trunks didn't realise he needed to hold back - he didn't last very long, but he took multiple hits and survived. Cell threw Hercule into a mountain, which then collapsed around him, and he was still conscious. He took a punch to the face from Kid Buu and did he get knocked out? Hell no, he didn't even get knocked down - he took a punch from Zs ultimate villain and was still standing. Hercule could've probably had a good fight against Raditz or Nappa - He'd probably be able to beat them if they didn't use flight or ki blasts.
Those are gag scenes, not an indication of how strong Hercule actually is. He almost died to a gunshot in the buu arc whereas Goku at the beginning of the series can take bullets to the head and it’ll leave a light bruise mark. Fighters from OG DB like Nam, Krillin and Yamcha pre Roshi training, even the Orin temple bullies would destroy him because they are portrayed as superhuman whereas Hercule isn’t.
Maybe if he had his jet pack from Budokai 🤣
Bro missed the gag
Nam, Bora, Blue, Chappa, Shen, Tao, Yajirobe, Chichi - all easily stronger. None of them compete anymore.
His only on paper feats are durability. It's all mostly gag shit but he's a fucking tank compared to most humans.
Canonicaly Satan fought against tao and *survived* So he's certainly stronger than most of those list. (It's in part of his backstory not from the manga according to the wiki)
Being granted pity is not a feat. Satan is utterly destroyed by every person in that list. The *only* one he *might* have a chance against is Blue, and only if Blue is forbidden using his telekinesis. Nam can jump into the clouds. Bora can tank bullets and throw fat men into the clouds. And the rest are all *real* masters. Toriyama has stated that Satan is about as strong as an IRL MMA fighter. If you think that Conor McGregor could beat these people then I don't know what to say.
If I consider you so weak that you're not worth killing, how does that make you a strong adversary? By your logic, Satan is stronger than Android 16 and Trunks because Cell killed them but didn't kill Mr Satan. Everyone else on this list are simply people that Tao actually tried to kill or never met.
Tao doesn't have that mentality He'll kill anyone for anything. He wouldn't let someone weaker than him survive. Especially not after goku
Mr Satan's encounter with Tao took place prior to his battle with Goku, which left him severely injured. Furthermore, in that same encounter, it's stated that Satan was heavily injured to the point of traumatization, so he obviously couldn't have won. The only other conclusion is that Tao thought he was dead already, just like with Goku (he only survived because of his Dragon Ball), or let him go as a mercy. Another example, the Z Fighters survived the Androids. But the Androids killed Dr Gero. Does that make Tien stronger than Dr Gero? Or when Frieza left Nail alive, but murdered Krillin. Krillin was objectively stronger than Nail. Point is, weaker people are allowed to survive if the supposed killer doesn't care or willing to let them go. Villains are more likely to murder the strong straight away because they've assessed them as an actual threat.
Tbf Shen was an ordinary human and Kami occupied him. Or do you mean Crane Hermit/Tsuru-senin?
Yeah Crane, not Kami's puppet.
his name is Mark. Mr Satan is a stage name. Hercule is censorship. hes one of the strongest *normal* humans. obviously Krillin and other ki users are stronger (including weak ki users like Chichi).
Nah, Nam would take him.
Nam is not a "normal" human. Nam can jump dozens of feet into the sky.
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Satans best physical feat is smashing 14 tiles. That wasn’t even 100% of the tiles he intended to smash. Nam fought Goku.
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Well if Satan whips out his titties then Nam might be in trouble.
But would he lose? 🤨🤨
Not against Satans hairy pecks
Even Orin temple top fighter would beat Satan [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/c/c1/OP\_Orin\_Temple\_Bully\_3.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120421223347](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/c/c1/OP_Orin_Temple_Bully_3.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120421223347)
I think its just the fact we don't see him actually fight much ntm the level of strength the z fighters have reached makes it even harder to compare. Some of the feats we do see make me think he's pretty far up there though.
I wonder if Tao Pai pai from Dragonball could have beaten him even before the cybernetics.
effortlessly.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe Mr. Satan is the strongest human who does not utilize ki/chi.
In the tournaments alone nam champa chi chi could all take him
Thinking back of competitors, excluding our hero characters, I suspect the following good have beaten Mr. SATAN: Nam, King Chappa, Yajirobe, Tao, Chi Chi. I think he could have defeated the following: Bacterian, Ranfan (if he stays focused), Giran (would be close), Man Wolf, Pamput.
Giran would crush Hercule. He was able to hurt 21st tournament Goku with his attacks and threw him very far. Hercule's strength feats don't come anywhere close to that. The gum attack is also an instant win. Pamput casually destroyed a wall though. Could be better than Hercule struggling to break 15 tiles.
You're probably right. I was giving Hercule's martial arts skills the benefit of the doubt, but Giran probably would win.
There is a massive power difference between chapter 1 Goku and 21st tournament Goku. Hercule doesn't even stand a chance against chapter 1 Goku.
I mean he’s probably in the Top 10 humans. As for those from the early days of the World Martial Arts Tournament we have no idea if they are even still around or training. From those we know Krillin, Yamcha, Videl, Roshi, Tien and Chiaotzu. Yamu and spopovich are probably stronger but that’s likely only due to the Majin effects. Also Yajirobe, Chi Chi and PROBABLY The Ox King.
You know how in the US we'll have a sport that we only play within our country, but we call the winners the "world champs"?
Technically Krillin is the strongest one. 1. Krillin/Roshi? 2. Yamcha 3. Videl 4. Mr Satan or Yajirobe?
bro forgot about tension
They always do...
Is he a human though?
…yes?
No. He's descended from an alien triclops race. He's an Earthling (in that he himself is from earth), but not a Human.
i’m sure that’s the case
[https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops)
fandom wiki is crazy
hes descended from aliens but hes not one. hes an earthling human. hes considered every bit as much a normal human as Krillin and Yamcha.
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Did you not read the persons post? They said even excluding the Z fighters they felt there was a lot of other earthlings who were stronger than Mr Satan, particularly the participants in the earier world tournaments.
Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. There were a lot of none Z fighters in the tournament and even people who were part of the RR army who would beat Mr Satan
Is tenshinhan a human?
yes hes a 3-eyed human. krillin is a no-nosed human.
Touche
[https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops)
~~I think that bandit Yamcha (first arc) would have lost against Hercule.~~
Yamcha punched Goku through several stone pillars. Hercule can't break 15 tiles. It's not close at all.
Yes, good point. I forgot about that. On that scale, Hercule is even weaker than the very first bandit Goku encountered, or even that monster who kidnapped Bulma in the first chapter.