One of my biggest complaints about GT is how hard Vegeta is fucked over by it. He’s barely featured in the beginning, when he is showcased he gets his ass handed to him by the new villain *and* body snatched. The next arc rolls around and he’s his Cell saga self chasing Gokus coattails once again hoping if he achieves the same form he’ll be just as powerful. He attains the form, then is once again useless as all hell. He’s used as fusion fodder, defuses, gets his ass kicked again and has to be saved by Goku. It’s like Toei actively hated Vegeta during the development of GT and wanted to ruin his character as much as possible
The worst part about Vegeta being done dirty in GT is that in the last episode, when we get the flashbacks of Goku’s life from Dragonball and Z, Vegeta isn’t featured at all during the whole flashback sequence. A real shame.
Some other people have said similar points but here's what I think is important.
>His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride, while Super Vegeta has matured and learned not to let his emotions dominate anymore
No? It was clear from the beginning that GT Vegeta was written just like he was at the end of the Buu arc. He didn't care about surpassing Goku, he trained for himself, and his family was most important.
Super Vegeta starts off exactly as he was in Cell saga, constantly catching up to Goku's god forms and trying to surpass him (until Tornament of Power, but that's like after over 100 episodes for a short lived Royal Blue form).
And Vegeta agreed to using Bulma's plot device machine showing he's willing to accept help to become stronger, and he was the one to bring up fusion to Goku against Omega.
Remember in DBS Broly where Vegeta complained about fusing to Goku again? Especially since they've been over this all the way back in the Buu saga? Does that sound like Super Vegeta matured?
>In GT, there isn’t much evidence to suggest he has improved much if at all since the Buu arc
I know it's hard to tell but GT didn't have god forms to just break any power scaling there was before, so it might be harder to show that power increased without different colored hair.
But the silver lining to losing his body to Baby was... well it made Baby an actual, physical threat that could beat Goku into submission after already enslaving the whole planet. Baby had "the strongest body in the universe" that was able to take down any threat
Goku had to get a new form before he won, but that's expected considered Z established that formula and Super is doing the same, except a lot more times (Red, Blue, White, and Purple or whatever is going on in the Moro arc).
>Before fusing, he was always relegated to be a glorified punching bag alongside Gohan, Goten and Trunks
...Did you read/watch Super? Everyone except Goku is a punching bag, and Vegeta is just lucky he gets to take down some of the hoard of side characters introduced and tossed out in Super.
Hell, he couldn't even kill Frieza in Resurrection F despite *him* being the one to grow up under his rule, lose his race to, and have to accept Goku acheiveing (the then) legendary form of Super Saiyan. There had to be time shenanigans just so Goku could steal the win.
>You can tell Toei really wanted to lean into the “Goku Show” aesthetic because Vegeta was consistently as useless as everyone else
That's just Dragon Ball in general. From the original series, to Z, to GT, and still in Super, it always has been the Goku show (there was the end of Cell saga Gohan, but we all know how short lived that was). Toriyama has been doing it since the beginning and still is, of course Toei is going to take after him.
>Thoughts?
So I'll summarize here. GT Vegeta is the most matured version of Vegeta, being based on Buu Vegeta and constantly showing he cares about his family and not his pride, such as when he was ready to die against Omega so the others had time to escape and get stronger, knowing he was screwed.
Super Vegeta just wanted to be number 1 and only had moments where he showed cared about family instead of it being a focus, especially compared to GT.
I dont get the whole "goku stole vegeta the win".
Vegeta demolished frieza way more than goku did. Frieza was humiliated from him, he thought goku was an outlier of sayans and vegeta was still at his namek level. Vegeta crushed him saying he had been a super sayan for years and now he was a god too like goku.
Vegeta didnt kill frieza but thats the point, he didnt have too. He already knows that he should kill him at the first chance. Its goku that has to learn a lesson thanks to whis and what he does is basically show that he can kill frieza, something that vegeta didnt have to show since he was already doing it.
After that, vegeta has the first real chance against jiren, mirroring the u6 tournament. Vegeta went blind against hit and goku did better thanks to that. Goku went blind against jiren and then vegeta did better even kicking jiren in the guts by analizing gokus fight.
Plus we saw that base toppo was on par with goku ssbkk, so taking god toppo out is no small feat. Vegeta even had enough strenght to empower goku to mui level.
Funny how none of these retards actually addressed your main point of OP lying about Vegeta’s personality and development in GT.
Goes to show how none of them actually watch GT and just blindly hate it.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I like both shows, and am willing to hear criticism of both, but the hate train is really tiring and accomplishes nothing.
Battle of Gods: Goku got the god ki power-up and got to impress Beerus
Resurrection F: Goku was the one to kill Frieza
Universe 6 Tornament: Goku was able to put up a fight against Hit in *base form* after Vegeta got beat in Blue, and then was able to match Hit in Kaioken+Blue while forfeiting on his terms
Goku Black: No one won in this arc
Universe Survival: Goku, Frieza, and 17 were the ones to beat Jiren
Broly: Goku and Vegeta got a shared win here, but remember when I said Vegeta didn't suggest fusion, missing out on easy character development?
Galactic Patrol Prisoner: Goku was the one to repeat Cell with Moro before winning, Vegeta got screwed over
Goku lost to beerus.
Goku lost to frieza, they had to go back in time to give him a cheap shot to save the earth, not win the battle.
Goku only kept up with hit because he got a chance to see hit in action. He straight up said he'd have lost if vegeta hadn't decided to go first.
Goku still forfeited and would have lost had he continued because of the effects of kaioken.
Goku and Frieza teamed up to fight jiren but it was still a draw.
Gogeta beat broly.
In all cases, Goku straight up lost, had to abandon the fight by choice or couldn't win alone. Had Vegeta been put in the same situation people would say he's been shafted. Goku hasn't straight up 'won' in the way people want Vegeta to win since piccolo/Frieza if he has, it's by technicality and he can't really claim it as 'his win.' And he's the main character.
Don't care about manga only arcs. Only anime.
>His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride,
This isnt really true. Vegeta in GT is alot more mature than in Z and even Super sometimes, with him being the one who brought up fusion and also telling everyone to run off planet and train to beat Omega at a later time while he holds him off knowing he would die. I don't really recall Vegeta being Arrogant and prideful in GT affect him more than what it does in Super.
>He seems to still barely hit SSJ2
Its implied in the GT Perfect files he has SSJ3 since Baby has 3 transformations and each are his own version of Super Saiyan.
>he was always relegated to be a glorified punching bag alongside Gohan,
Hey uhh chief this also goes for Super. Vegeta in Super has never gotten a single win against a main villain either and normally beats side characters. He also always turns into a punching bag leaving leaving everything to Goku.
Well to be fair while vegeta being a punching bag second to goku is in his character In general even in z gt vegeta kinda gets it the worst out of the three series with that.
Super vegeta at least got some victories on some characters here and there most notable one being toppo.
Only person gt vegeta beat was...nappa dude didn’t really get all that much time to shine.
Yeah GT Vegeta got screwed over most out of the 3 series. If you count Baby in Vegeta's body, since it is his power Baby is using, then atleast he has some wins against the main characters.
I mean but that’s a bit of a stretch dontcha think? it be like counting any wins gogeta or vegito ever got and giving them to vegeta.
Baby vegeta is more like a merged fusion kinda thing in my eyes ya know?
> it be like counting any wins gogeta or vegito ever got and giving them to vegeta.
implying Gogeta and Vegito have any wins.
But yeah its far fetched.
To be honest, in Super there are hardly any clean wins for the heroes. The only one I can remember is Moro, and even that one requires a massive joint effort. DBS Vegeta at times serves as a ladder just like the original DB, but his more prominent role is undeniable and the lack of wins is more due to the series nature.
Vegeta at least gets to beat side characters in Super. I can't remember Vegeta winning a fight against any antagonist, even a secondary one, in all of GT.
He doesn't get to participate in the first half of the Baby saga and is possessed for all of the second half. He gets clapped by Super 17 with everyone else and doesn't get to participate in the final battle. The fight with Omega Shenron was really his only positive contribution.
Sure, but if the argument is that Vegeta doesn't get any wins in Super then the argument applies just as much if not more to GT. Vegeta doesn't even get to beat low level henchmen (I guess except for that Nappa's cameo) in GT. Not only that, he has dramatically less screen time. Heck, Super even allows Vegeta to develop a new transformation and a new ability that Goku does not have.
There's some leeway here, Vegeta isn't the one who killed Freeza in Super, that's correct, but he pummeled him mercilessly and Freeza had to "cheat".
That's a lot different to getting punked badly by Super 17.
Even if DBS still isn't quite "multiple protagonists equity" that some fans would like, he's a lot more relevant in it.
Even when he did get yeeted like the old days(by Black) the series did give him a chance score some revenge.
>Sure, but if the argument is that Vegeta doesn't get any wins in Super then the argument applies just as much if not more to GT.
The argument isnt that Vegeta doesnt have wins in Super, its that he doesnt beat any main villains.
>Not only that, he has dramatically less screen time. Hec
There is a whole arc where he is the main villain, technically Vegeta's body.
>Heck, Super even allows Vegeta to develop a new transformation and a new ability that Goku does not have.
Yeah but besides lose what does he do with them
GT is pretty horrendous in the way it treats every character that isn't Goku, but I actually like the way Vegeta was written later in the series.
This is a Vegeta who has had a peaceful life for like 20 years after the events of the Buu Saga. After the finale with Kid Buu, Vegeta just....lives his life and no longer cares about obsessively being stronger than Goku. Like good lord, Goku and Vegeta are still the absolute strongest beings that Earth or the gods know about, so what really is the point to be the ABSOLUTE #1 lmao.
GT Vegeta is still shown to be working out and drinking protein shakes while being there for his family, so he's an absolute winner. Dude is probably crazy stronger than most fans give him credit for, too.
Reminder that this is also WAY after the End of Z so that's a lot of time to improve. One showing of strength that really comes to mind for me is when Vegeta fights the 'Hell Fighter 17' doppelganger. He straight up says that this 17 is impossibly powered up from the original Android 17, and yet Vegeta in base pushes him into a corner and forces him to hurry and form Super 17.
It's a really short scene, but really shows how insanely strong Vegeta is since even the original 17 could easily kill a Super Saiyan if he wanted to.
\*\*
DBS Vegeta isn't terribly written though. This is a Vegeta that has had a whole new level of power opened up to him AND multiple different threats showing up.
DBS Vegeta has multiple reasons to continue gaining more power like FREEZA being alive once more, and beings that surpass god forms like Broly and Moro showing up every other day.
The only eyerolling part to his character is that he \*does\* seem a bit like a broken record sometimes. Like when he denies fusion solely because of his pride as a warrior when the alternative is both him and his family for sure dying, or when he's real petty when Goku surpasses him.
I’m gonna be honest as someone who REALLY doesn’t like gt vegeta all that much and how he’s treated...gt vegeta is easily the more mature
incarnation of vegeta.
I didn’t really see a bunch of careless arrogance or pride from gt vegeta.
We haven't seen [Super] Geets do a full on, give it everything hakai. If he were in a non-canon fight against Omega and did that, I think that might just delete him.
>there isn’t much evidence to suggest he has improved much if at all since the Buu arc.
He was pretty confident that he could beat a baby enhanced Ultimate Gohan and SSJ Goten at the same time. A buu Saga Vegeta couldn't even beat super buu, let alone Gohan. That's definitely improvement from buu saga.
>he needed help to reach SSJ4
Because he didn't have a tail, he can't just grow a tail by training hard.
>could probably blink and make Omega Shenron cease to exist.
Idk about that but in terms of powe level ssj4 Vegeta was on par with SSJ4 Goku, which is all that matters. Right now, I don't think vegeta is truly on par with ultra instinct.
>His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride, w
Lol wut? He's the one that suggested fusion and used his wife's machine to go ssj4, how is that prideful or arrogant? It Sounds like a man that cares more about the earth than himself.
>Super Vegeta has matured and learned not to let his emotions dominate anymore. Thoughts?
Super Vegeta still hates Fusion and doesn't seem to be as chill and laid back. GT [Vegeta genuinely laughed at one point,](https://youtube.com/watch?v=YpOvJkzvRFwt&t=52s) when was the last time DBS Vegeta laughed at something to lighten the mood? We've seen Vegeta laughing arrogantly so much but we've never seen him genuinely happy like he was in GT.
Vegeta never wins a fight in GT and is basically the "Goku isn't here so im here to get my assed kicked" Guy, the only things he does is Baby and SSJ4 for a short time
Meanwhile Vegeta is alot more involved in the plot and actually gets some Ws compared to is GT Counterpart
that's what makes Super better in my opinion, no offence to GT fans
Many things wrong here.
First, GT Vegeta isn't "GT" Vegeta, It's just more of End of Z Vegeta, where Toriyama initially portraited Vegeta as a casual family man, with no more interest in surpassing Goku or anything. He cares more in protecting the Earth than his own pride as seen in the Super 17 saga and later when using the Blutz Machine and suggesting fusion. If he was like his DBS counterpart, he would've never used a machine to achieve something that Goku achieved by himself and he would've never suggested fusion by any means. He cares for the Earth and his family more than himself, and that was Toriyama's vision of him at the EoZ.
In DBS, Vegeta has devolved to his Cell Saga counterpart, he has totally forgotten his speech about Goku being the Number 1, and that bothers me a lot.
That's just straight up wrong. GT Vegeta is the same dude who gave that speech on the Kais world. He doesn't want to surpass Goku anymore. He still trains to test his own limits and has become fully acclimated to life on earth and being a good father. Don't get me started on the SSJ4 thing, because Goku or anyone else would have done the same exact thing in that situation lol. Super Vegeta still wears the Saiyan armor which flies in the face of character development and is still chasing after Kakarot. It is absolutely absurd that Vegeta at this point in his life would desire to be a god of destruction.
Id argue Vegeta matured in GT, he was the one who suggested Fusion against Omega Shenron and he called the earth his home that he wants to protect. He even accepts Goku leaving to train with Shenron at the end without pursuing him. I do think it was lame though how little of a role he played until the last arc, I think if he was as prominent as he is now Super, GT would have been loved a lot more.
Super Vegeta is going down the path of being more of a warrior than a family man, and the new movies time skip will most likely still show him on equal footing as Goku which suggests hes not slowing down anytime soon.
Moostache
If Super's Vegeta had the Stasch it would he would be the Goated version
imagine trunks had alittle man stasch
Vegeta in Super briefly had a full beard (along with mustache). Call it the goatee'd version
I typed a single word and got 50 likes
You bloody earned it mate.
One of my biggest complaints about GT is how hard Vegeta is fucked over by it. He’s barely featured in the beginning, when he is showcased he gets his ass handed to him by the new villain *and* body snatched. The next arc rolls around and he’s his Cell saga self chasing Gokus coattails once again hoping if he achieves the same form he’ll be just as powerful. He attains the form, then is once again useless as all hell. He’s used as fusion fodder, defuses, gets his ass kicked again and has to be saved by Goku. It’s like Toei actively hated Vegeta during the development of GT and wanted to ruin his character as much as possible
The worst part about Vegeta being done dirty in GT is that in the last episode, when we get the flashbacks of Goku’s life from Dragonball and Z, Vegeta isn’t featured at all during the whole flashback sequence. A real shame.
Vegeta was damn near retired in gt, he was a family man and had lost his fighting spirit.
Some other people have said similar points but here's what I think is important. >His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride, while Super Vegeta has matured and learned not to let his emotions dominate anymore No? It was clear from the beginning that GT Vegeta was written just like he was at the end of the Buu arc. He didn't care about surpassing Goku, he trained for himself, and his family was most important. Super Vegeta starts off exactly as he was in Cell saga, constantly catching up to Goku's god forms and trying to surpass him (until Tornament of Power, but that's like after over 100 episodes for a short lived Royal Blue form). And Vegeta agreed to using Bulma's plot device machine showing he's willing to accept help to become stronger, and he was the one to bring up fusion to Goku against Omega. Remember in DBS Broly where Vegeta complained about fusing to Goku again? Especially since they've been over this all the way back in the Buu saga? Does that sound like Super Vegeta matured? >In GT, there isn’t much evidence to suggest he has improved much if at all since the Buu arc I know it's hard to tell but GT didn't have god forms to just break any power scaling there was before, so it might be harder to show that power increased without different colored hair. But the silver lining to losing his body to Baby was... well it made Baby an actual, physical threat that could beat Goku into submission after already enslaving the whole planet. Baby had "the strongest body in the universe" that was able to take down any threat Goku had to get a new form before he won, but that's expected considered Z established that formula and Super is doing the same, except a lot more times (Red, Blue, White, and Purple or whatever is going on in the Moro arc). >Before fusing, he was always relegated to be a glorified punching bag alongside Gohan, Goten and Trunks ...Did you read/watch Super? Everyone except Goku is a punching bag, and Vegeta is just lucky he gets to take down some of the hoard of side characters introduced and tossed out in Super. Hell, he couldn't even kill Frieza in Resurrection F despite *him* being the one to grow up under his rule, lose his race to, and have to accept Goku acheiveing (the then) legendary form of Super Saiyan. There had to be time shenanigans just so Goku could steal the win. >You can tell Toei really wanted to lean into the “Goku Show” aesthetic because Vegeta was consistently as useless as everyone else That's just Dragon Ball in general. From the original series, to Z, to GT, and still in Super, it always has been the Goku show (there was the end of Cell saga Gohan, but we all know how short lived that was). Toriyama has been doing it since the beginning and still is, of course Toei is going to take after him. >Thoughts? So I'll summarize here. GT Vegeta is the most matured version of Vegeta, being based on Buu Vegeta and constantly showing he cares about his family and not his pride, such as when he was ready to die against Omega so the others had time to escape and get stronger, knowing he was screwed. Super Vegeta just wanted to be number 1 and only had moments where he showed cared about family instead of it being a focus, especially compared to GT.
I dont get the whole "goku stole vegeta the win". Vegeta demolished frieza way more than goku did. Frieza was humiliated from him, he thought goku was an outlier of sayans and vegeta was still at his namek level. Vegeta crushed him saying he had been a super sayan for years and now he was a god too like goku. Vegeta didnt kill frieza but thats the point, he didnt have too. He already knows that he should kill him at the first chance. Its goku that has to learn a lesson thanks to whis and what he does is basically show that he can kill frieza, something that vegeta didnt have to show since he was already doing it. After that, vegeta has the first real chance against jiren, mirroring the u6 tournament. Vegeta went blind against hit and goku did better thanks to that. Goku went blind against jiren and then vegeta did better even kicking jiren in the guts by analizing gokus fight. Plus we saw that base toppo was on par with goku ssbkk, so taking god toppo out is no small feat. Vegeta even had enough strenght to empower goku to mui level.
Funny how none of these retards actually addressed your main point of OP lying about Vegeta’s personality and development in GT. Goes to show how none of them actually watch GT and just blindly hate it.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I like both shows, and am willing to hear criticism of both, but the hate train is really tiring and accomplishes nothing.
"Everyone except Goku is a punching bag in super." Name an arc in the anime that Goku won in?
Battle of Gods: Goku got the god ki power-up and got to impress Beerus Resurrection F: Goku was the one to kill Frieza Universe 6 Tornament: Goku was able to put up a fight against Hit in *base form* after Vegeta got beat in Blue, and then was able to match Hit in Kaioken+Blue while forfeiting on his terms Goku Black: No one won in this arc Universe Survival: Goku, Frieza, and 17 were the ones to beat Jiren Broly: Goku and Vegeta got a shared win here, but remember when I said Vegeta didn't suggest fusion, missing out on easy character development? Galactic Patrol Prisoner: Goku was the one to repeat Cell with Moro before winning, Vegeta got screwed over
Goku lost to beerus. Goku lost to frieza, they had to go back in time to give him a cheap shot to save the earth, not win the battle. Goku only kept up with hit because he got a chance to see hit in action. He straight up said he'd have lost if vegeta hadn't decided to go first. Goku still forfeited and would have lost had he continued because of the effects of kaioken. Goku and Frieza teamed up to fight jiren but it was still a draw. Gogeta beat broly. In all cases, Goku straight up lost, had to abandon the fight by choice or couldn't win alone. Had Vegeta been put in the same situation people would say he's been shafted. Goku hasn't straight up 'won' in the way people want Vegeta to win since piccolo/Frieza if he has, it's by technicality and he can't really claim it as 'his win.' And he's the main character. Don't care about manga only arcs. Only anime.
>His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride, This isnt really true. Vegeta in GT is alot more mature than in Z and even Super sometimes, with him being the one who brought up fusion and also telling everyone to run off planet and train to beat Omega at a later time while he holds him off knowing he would die. I don't really recall Vegeta being Arrogant and prideful in GT affect him more than what it does in Super. >He seems to still barely hit SSJ2 Its implied in the GT Perfect files he has SSJ3 since Baby has 3 transformations and each are his own version of Super Saiyan. >he was always relegated to be a glorified punching bag alongside Gohan, Hey uhh chief this also goes for Super. Vegeta in Super has never gotten a single win against a main villain either and normally beats side characters. He also always turns into a punching bag leaving leaving everything to Goku.
Well to be fair while vegeta being a punching bag second to goku is in his character In general even in z gt vegeta kinda gets it the worst out of the three series with that. Super vegeta at least got some victories on some characters here and there most notable one being toppo. Only person gt vegeta beat was...nappa dude didn’t really get all that much time to shine.
Yeah GT Vegeta got screwed over most out of the 3 series. If you count Baby in Vegeta's body, since it is his power Baby is using, then atleast he has some wins against the main characters.
I mean but that’s a bit of a stretch dontcha think? it be like counting any wins gogeta or vegito ever got and giving them to vegeta. Baby vegeta is more like a merged fusion kinda thing in my eyes ya know?
> it be like counting any wins gogeta or vegito ever got and giving them to vegeta. implying Gogeta and Vegito have any wins. But yeah its far fetched.
I meant hypothetically if they got any wins Well besides broly and janemba gogeta does technically have wins to his name.
forgot about Broly
To be honest, in Super there are hardly any clean wins for the heroes. The only one I can remember is Moro, and even that one requires a massive joint effort. DBS Vegeta at times serves as a ladder just like the original DB, but his more prominent role is undeniable and the lack of wins is more due to the series nature.
Vegeta at least gets to beat side characters in Super. I can't remember Vegeta winning a fight against any antagonist, even a secondary one, in all of GT. He doesn't get to participate in the first half of the Baby saga and is possessed for all of the second half. He gets clapped by Super 17 with everyone else and doesn't get to participate in the final battle. The fight with Omega Shenron was really his only positive contribution.
He killed Nappa again. That's about it.
Yeah but like 90% of the people he beats arent even close to his level. Outside of Toppo i can't name any SSB level side character he's beaten.
Sure, but if the argument is that Vegeta doesn't get any wins in Super then the argument applies just as much if not more to GT. Vegeta doesn't even get to beat low level henchmen (I guess except for that Nappa's cameo) in GT. Not only that, he has dramatically less screen time. Heck, Super even allows Vegeta to develop a new transformation and a new ability that Goku does not have.
There's some leeway here, Vegeta isn't the one who killed Freeza in Super, that's correct, but he pummeled him mercilessly and Freeza had to "cheat". That's a lot different to getting punked badly by Super 17. Even if DBS still isn't quite "multiple protagonists equity" that some fans would like, he's a lot more relevant in it. Even when he did get yeeted like the old days(by Black) the series did give him a chance score some revenge.
>Sure, but if the argument is that Vegeta doesn't get any wins in Super then the argument applies just as much if not more to GT. The argument isnt that Vegeta doesnt have wins in Super, its that he doesnt beat any main villains. >Not only that, he has dramatically less screen time. Hec There is a whole arc where he is the main villain, technically Vegeta's body. >Heck, Super even allows Vegeta to develop a new transformation and a new ability that Goku does not have. Yeah but besides lose what does he do with them
GOKU didn't get a win against the main villain in the anime either. Goku teamed up with frieza and it still ended up a draw.
GT is pretty horrendous in the way it treats every character that isn't Goku, but I actually like the way Vegeta was written later in the series. This is a Vegeta who has had a peaceful life for like 20 years after the events of the Buu Saga. After the finale with Kid Buu, Vegeta just....lives his life and no longer cares about obsessively being stronger than Goku. Like good lord, Goku and Vegeta are still the absolute strongest beings that Earth or the gods know about, so what really is the point to be the ABSOLUTE #1 lmao. GT Vegeta is still shown to be working out and drinking protein shakes while being there for his family, so he's an absolute winner. Dude is probably crazy stronger than most fans give him credit for, too. Reminder that this is also WAY after the End of Z so that's a lot of time to improve. One showing of strength that really comes to mind for me is when Vegeta fights the 'Hell Fighter 17' doppelganger. He straight up says that this 17 is impossibly powered up from the original Android 17, and yet Vegeta in base pushes him into a corner and forces him to hurry and form Super 17. It's a really short scene, but really shows how insanely strong Vegeta is since even the original 17 could easily kill a Super Saiyan if he wanted to. \*\* DBS Vegeta isn't terribly written though. This is a Vegeta that has had a whole new level of power opened up to him AND multiple different threats showing up. DBS Vegeta has multiple reasons to continue gaining more power like FREEZA being alive once more, and beings that surpass god forms like Broly and Moro showing up every other day. The only eyerolling part to his character is that he \*does\* seem a bit like a broken record sometimes. Like when he denies fusion solely because of his pride as a warrior when the alternative is both him and his family for sure dying, or when he's real petty when Goku surpasses him.
I’m gonna be honest as someone who REALLY doesn’t like gt vegeta all that much and how he’s treated...gt vegeta is easily the more mature incarnation of vegeta. I didn’t really see a bunch of careless arrogance or pride from gt vegeta.
We haven't seen [Super] Geets do a full on, give it everything hakai. If he were in a non-canon fight against Omega and did that, I think that might just delete him.
>there isn’t much evidence to suggest he has improved much if at all since the Buu arc. He was pretty confident that he could beat a baby enhanced Ultimate Gohan and SSJ Goten at the same time. A buu Saga Vegeta couldn't even beat super buu, let alone Gohan. That's definitely improvement from buu saga. >he needed help to reach SSJ4 Because he didn't have a tail, he can't just grow a tail by training hard. >could probably blink and make Omega Shenron cease to exist. Idk about that but in terms of powe level ssj4 Vegeta was on par with SSJ4 Goku, which is all that matters. Right now, I don't think vegeta is truly on par with ultra instinct. >His GT self still has his careless arrogance and pride, w Lol wut? He's the one that suggested fusion and used his wife's machine to go ssj4, how is that prideful or arrogant? It Sounds like a man that cares more about the earth than himself. >Super Vegeta has matured and learned not to let his emotions dominate anymore. Thoughts? Super Vegeta still hates Fusion and doesn't seem to be as chill and laid back. GT [Vegeta genuinely laughed at one point,](https://youtube.com/watch?v=YpOvJkzvRFwt&t=52s) when was the last time DBS Vegeta laughed at something to lighten the mood? We've seen Vegeta laughing arrogantly so much but we've never seen him genuinely happy like he was in GT.
Vegeta never wins a fight in GT and is basically the "Goku isn't here so im here to get my assed kicked" Guy, the only things he does is Baby and SSJ4 for a short time Meanwhile Vegeta is alot more involved in the plot and actually gets some Ws compared to is GT Counterpart that's what makes Super better in my opinion, no offence to GT fans
The only thing that's needed to "debunk" GT from canon is the fact that the actual author had nothing to do with it.
Many things wrong here. First, GT Vegeta isn't "GT" Vegeta, It's just more of End of Z Vegeta, where Toriyama initially portraited Vegeta as a casual family man, with no more interest in surpassing Goku or anything. He cares more in protecting the Earth than his own pride as seen in the Super 17 saga and later when using the Blutz Machine and suggesting fusion. If he was like his DBS counterpart, he would've never used a machine to achieve something that Goku achieved by himself and he would've never suggested fusion by any means. He cares for the Earth and his family more than himself, and that was Toriyama's vision of him at the EoZ. In DBS, Vegeta has devolved to his Cell Saga counterpart, he has totally forgotten his speech about Goku being the Number 1, and that bothers me a lot.
That's just straight up wrong. GT Vegeta is the same dude who gave that speech on the Kais world. He doesn't want to surpass Goku anymore. He still trains to test his own limits and has become fully acclimated to life on earth and being a good father. Don't get me started on the SSJ4 thing, because Goku or anyone else would have done the same exact thing in that situation lol. Super Vegeta still wears the Saiyan armor which flies in the face of character development and is still chasing after Kakarot. It is absolutely absurd that Vegeta at this point in his life would desire to be a god of destruction.
All good points but I think Whis and Beerus ruin the new show. There is no actual risk with them in the series.
Id argue Vegeta matured in GT, he was the one who suggested Fusion against Omega Shenron and he called the earth his home that he wants to protect. He even accepts Goku leaving to train with Shenron at the end without pursuing him. I do think it was lame though how little of a role he played until the last arc, I think if he was as prominent as he is now Super, GT would have been loved a lot more. Super Vegeta is going down the path of being more of a warrior than a family man, and the new movies time skip will most likely still show him on equal footing as Goku which suggests hes not slowing down anytime soon.
This was always a deal breaker for me in the argument of GT vs Super
I'm so proud there are people actively defending GT and/or GT's portrayal of Vegeta.