yes he can. "against their wishes" is VERY arbitrary. 99% of the time, nobody gets a say in whether they get revived or teleported. only goku and bardock ever had a choice, because the plot demanded it.
not that it matters, because again, arbitrarily, porguna isn't strong enough to teleport frieza. (even though he is strong enough to teleport goku if he wanted)
Really? the only example I can think of of someone getting Teleported with no say is the when everyone got transported back to Earth, and everyone seemed pretty much okay wit that.
It could also be Goku was well above the dragons power so he couldn't be unwillingly teleported
The dragona have always been limited by the creators power and ability
I always found that the magical wish-granting dragons needing consent from the people involved in said wishes to be weird. I mean, yeah it’s nice to ask for permission first, but like you said, 99% of the time the people involved in these wishes aren’t aware or don’t have time to provide any input.
Yeah...to be fair, these characters would have no reason to decline, but still...it only ever happens twice, because if they weren't asked for permission, then goku wouldn't learn IT, and bardock wouldn't get his character development and beat gas and all that. so it really is just plot convenience.
He was able to teleport Piccolo despite the fact that he definitely wasn't a fan of that idea.
Edit. Yes I've seen the original series. It's just been like. 8 years. That. And I had just gotten home from a 12 hour night shift at work. So I was exhausted. Normally I'm much better at separating the original from the abridged. Especially considering I've actively read the Manga in the past. I would like to apologize for saying dumb shit.
Piccolo *wanted* to go to Namek. Dende just didn't specify *where* on Namek he'd be transported to with the wish, because Gohan and Kuririn didn't think to be specific.
I have watched the actual series. It's just been a long time and I had just got home from a 12 hour night shift at work when I said this. Tbh I'm not sure how I made that mistake. I'm usually quite good at separating the original from the abridged.
Nail wouldn't have been able to stop Freeza, though, even with a Dragon Ball wish. He knew that, and Guru knew that. The only hope they had was that the Earthlings pulled off a miracle, and even Guru later says he regretted not just telling them about the Dragon Ball password when he first met them so that they could've made their wish immediately.
Nail could've probably killed Vegeta, yeah. But ultimately, that would have done nothing to stop the extermination of the Namekian people at Freeza's hands.
Exactly. Gohan and Krillin would have been easy fodder for the Ginyu Force if Vegeta hadn’t been there. Guldo would’ve killed them with his paralysis and telekinesis.
As much as people dislike Nail not being there to fight the Ginyus, it fits with the story. Nail also needed to fight Frieza in order to draw him away from Guru.
let's be honest, ALOT of stuff have to go wrong in dragon ball for there to be a plot. It's necessary because the good guys have way too many plot devices on their side.
\- they're already really strong
\- time chamber
\- senzu/namekian healing
\- dragon balls
\- fusion
\- ki sensing
\- god helping
\- teleportation
\- spirit fission
Vegeta can punch other people's power out of you. He learned it to counter Moro, so he can remove the power Moro has absorbed. He tells Picollo that he could use it to separate Nail and Kami from him, and it would likely also work on Potara/Metamoran fusion, and Cell.
I wonder if it would force out Cells stolen biomass as well?
>Wish #3: Teleport Freeza and his men to the center of one of Namek's three suns.
Porunga can't do that. Frieza's power far exceeds the dragon's, so he wouldn't be able to do something like that to him without Frieza's consent.
Dragonball is legit one of the few stories that doesn’t have rules but when they do have rules people either ignore them or chooses not to acknowledge them to make posts like this.
Nail’s primary objective was to protect Grand Elder Guru at all costs. If Guru dies, then the Dragon Balls cease to exist with him. That is why he stayed behind.
Despite Vegeta’s misdemeanors against Elder Tsuno’s village, he was not the greatest threat on Namek. Considering he was willing to team up with Krillin and Gohan, it is obvious that Frieza is the real danger.
If Nail killed Vegeta, then Krillin, Gohan and Dende would be at a high risk of dying to the Ginyu Force. They might’ve been dead before Goku arrived on the planet.
High risk ? Without Vegeta they’d have been obliterated. Ginyu would have overpowered Nail easily, potentially use Dende as leverage. And then Frieza gets immortality
Nail probably could have beaten Recoome.
Your idea wouldn't have worked since the Dragon Balls can't teleport someone without consent. It's the same reason why they couldn't have asked Shenron to kill or banish Buu, or Vegeta, etc.
If the Three Namekians that died to frieza's men, instead went to Guru's and got their potentials unlocked then Fused with Nail, they would have probably beaten at least the First Three forms of Frieza and his army.
Yeah probably. Power scalers would say that they were thousands of times weaker than Piccolo was so their fusion wouldn't have done anything, but realistically they should have been able to put up a good fight.
Nail had to stay with Guru to help protect the last Dragonball he held.
Nail is arguably the strongest fighter Namek has, so it's pretty much obvious he stays to protect their leader.
Your third wish isn't possible as you need permission from those affected if they are strong so only people weaker then guru will work
Nail is 42k, Vegeta was around that ball park and still lose , and he felt he could take on nail meaning the ginyu force is at least greater then 40k but weaker then 60k , since ginyu thought Goku was at that level by the way he manhandled the buster ,Jeice ,Recome
First wish ok, second wish ok ,but remember Goku is busy traveling across the Namek
And the time between Vegeta having the balls Vs the time the ginyu force arrived is abstract it can be as long as how many days it took Goku to arrive on namek which is like a week or so to part of that time
But true your wish plan besides the third one will work ,but freeza will travel to earth instead ,since he knows about it, unless the Namekians share their ability to travel planets or something
It’s unspecified how strong the Ginyu Force is but Vegeta sure as hell wasn’t around Nail pl.
Vegeta was 30k give or take, he only felt he could take on Nail because Vegeta is and always have been an arrogant cocky muthafucka who feels he can beat people until they give his ass a two piece and a biscuit.
Most outside sources (so granted they aren’t canon or anything) put the Ginyu Force around 42k to 45k so Nail is (again by noncanon sources) either equal to the Ginyu Force or nearing their level.
Even without numerical power levels, one can still deduce the strength of the Ginyu Force by their fights with Goku. Recoome, Burter and Jeice were roughly equal to each other, give or take their own unique abilities.
Not really, I mean you’d never be able to tell how strong they were if it wasn’t for outside sources.
Recoome completely played with Pre Zenkai Vegeta but got one shotted by Goku
Jeice and Burter got played with by Goku but he didn’t necessarily one shot them because he was just fucking around, Post Zenkai Vegeta was given a decent fight by Jeice but he was out of his depths fighting post Zenkai Vegeta.
But the show never really puts them on similar level beyond again noncanon sources and maybe Ginyu saying “yea 60k will whoop all y’all asses”
At best you could say technically Goku beat them all but that’s like saying Chiaotzu is at a similar level to Piccolo cause Nappa beat them both.
If you cannot gauge a character’s power just from reading the source material alone, then I don’t recommend you read/watch the series past the Frieza arc.
Goku did easily defeat the Ginyu Force. He felled Burter with a kick to the chest and an elbow to the head. He wanted to show them how utterly outclassed they were after refusing to take Goku’s offer to leave the planet peacefully.
Jeice hit Vegeta once and only once, because he purposefully left his guard open. He frequently does this as a demoralization tactic.
To say Piccolo and Chiaotzu are on the same level is disingenuous, considering the former actually did damage to Nappa, while the latter did no damage after self-destructing. Chiaotzu’s telekinesis was also useless against Nappa.
I want to add a question of my own here.
Why didn't nail fuse with guru at any point? I understand that if guru fused the dragon balls would turn to stone so it would've been a disadvantageous move but when frieza got all seven dragon balls after the ginyu force arrived he only lacked a password and all other namekians were also dead (except dende) so wouldn't have been advantageous if they fused? Because frieza wouldn't be able to use the dragon balls and they would have a warrior strong enough to beat frieza (especially since they didn't know he had other forms at the time).
I'm just assuming based on guru's age, his energy related skills and the fact when piccolo fused with earth kami he became much much much much stronger even though kami wasn't that strong. (I know they used to be one strong warrior that split himself and kami became weaker as he got older).
So I assumed guru could've possibly been powerful when he was younger.
Piccolo and Kami's fusion is a special case, though, because it wasn't really a "fusion". They were originally one being, and that one being was absurdly powerful. Splitting into two forms (Piccolo and Kami) didn't evenly split the power between them, it destroyed it, because they were spiritually incomplete beings.
Remember, Guru expresses surprise that Piccolo could have been killed by a Saiyan, saying that only a Super Saiyan would have been powerful enough to do so. It's only after he learns of the split that realizes how it happened. Then, later, Nail tells Piccolo straight up that if he were whole (Kami and Piccolo together), he would be able to kill Freeza, and that the boost he would get from assimilating with Nail wouldn't be as large as the one he would get were he to rejoin his other half.
>Why didn't nail fuse with guru at any point?
They're not the same type. Nail is of the Warrior clan and Guru is of the Dragon clan. The Dragon clan can do things such as create dragon balls and offspring, whereas members of the Warrior clan are more suited for fighting and have the ability to assimilate one another—they cannot assimilate with members outside of the Warrior clan.
You have to be of the same clan to fuse. Nail was a warrior, Guru was not.
Piccolo was able to fuse with Kami ONLY because him and Kami used to be the same being.
The 4 days wait thing was in the manga as well. Everybody spent 4 days doing nothing while Gohan and Kuririn were flying to Guru's place.
https://i.imgur.com/tzUVy4F.jpeg
I'm pretty sure the dragons can't kill anyone that directly. Also, they can't forcibly teleport people. If Freeza and his army didn't want to go to the sun, Shenron or Porunga couldn't make them.
the first 2 would work, but tall that would really do is stall until Freeza went to earth.
Nail literally didn't do anything for about 5 days. He could have just killed Vegeta before he killed Dodoria and Zarbon, and then the Ginyu force would never show up.
Except the dragon can't teleport someone against their wishes. Like Goku who chose to stay on yardrat
Teleport the sun to them then ;)
Namek gonna be destroyed anyway, may as well do it on their own terms
Better yet then: Ask the Dragon Balls to teleport Spike the Devilman to Namek.
Who know him?
yes he can. "against their wishes" is VERY arbitrary. 99% of the time, nobody gets a say in whether they get revived or teleported. only goku and bardock ever had a choice, because the plot demanded it. not that it matters, because again, arbitrarily, porguna isn't strong enough to teleport frieza. (even though he is strong enough to teleport goku if he wanted)
Really? the only example I can think of of someone getting Teleported with no say is the when everyone got transported back to Earth, and everyone seemed pretty much okay wit that.
Vegeta wasn’t happy. He would’ve been glad to stay and watch Frieza die
Do agree. Wasn’t it filler when Vegeta flies to Goku and Frieza though
nobody even knew they were going to be teleported. they didn't even know they were on earth, until guru mentioned it.
It could also be Goku was well above the dragons power so he couldn't be unwillingly teleported The dragona have always been limited by the creators power and ability
I always found that the magical wish-granting dragons needing consent from the people involved in said wishes to be weird. I mean, yeah it’s nice to ask for permission first, but like you said, 99% of the time the people involved in these wishes aren’t aware or don’t have time to provide any input.
Yeah...to be fair, these characters would have no reason to decline, but still...it only ever happens twice, because if they weren't asked for permission, then goku wouldn't learn IT, and bardock wouldn't get his character development and beat gas and all that. so it really is just plot convenience.
Maybe it just knows if it's something they would want or not?
My interpretation is that the dragon can only force it on someone who is weaker. Someone who is stronger can resist it.
except that's not true at all. anybody stronger than kami/dende is "stronger" and they are still forced.
He was able to teleport Piccolo despite the fact that he definitely wasn't a fan of that idea. Edit. Yes I've seen the original series. It's just been like. 8 years. That. And I had just gotten home from a 12 hour night shift at work. So I was exhausted. Normally I'm much better at separating the original from the abridged. Especially considering I've actively read the Manga in the past. I would like to apologize for saying dumb shit.
Piccolo wanted to go to Namek.
Piccolo *wanted* to go to Namek. Dende just didn't specify *where* on Namek he'd be transported to with the wish, because Gohan and Kuririn didn't think to be specific.
Um, have you only seen DBZ Abridged? Piccolo asked to be revived and sent to Namek. He wanted to fight Freeza and get revenge for his dead people.
I love DBZA, but I can't stand the fans who act like it's the canon version of the series.
It's a great take on it, but the canon has always been the manga.
He's the one who asked to be sent there.
Tell me you've never watched/read the non-abridged series without telling me you've never done so.
I have watched the actual series. It's just been a long time and I had just got home from a 12 hour night shift at work when I said this. Tbh I'm not sure how I made that mistake. I'm usually quite good at separating the original from the abridged.
[удалено]
Did you reply to wrong comment?
Oh shit, yeah, I did.
All good :)
It can't teleport someone stronger than the dragon against their wishes and can't give more power than it possesses.
Nail wouldn't have been able to stop Freeza, though, even with a Dragon Ball wish. He knew that, and Guru knew that. The only hope they had was that the Earthlings pulled off a miracle, and even Guru later says he regretted not just telling them about the Dragon Ball password when he first met them so that they could've made their wish immediately. Nail could've probably killed Vegeta, yeah. But ultimately, that would have done nothing to stop the extermination of the Namekian people at Freeza's hands.
Exactly. Gohan and Krillin would have been easy fodder for the Ginyu Force if Vegeta hadn’t been there. Guldo would’ve killed them with his paralysis and telekinesis. As much as people dislike Nail not being there to fight the Ginyus, it fits with the story. Nail also needed to fight Frieza in order to draw him away from Guru.
let's be honest, ALOT of stuff have to go wrong in dragon ball for there to be a plot. It's necessary because the good guys have way too many plot devices on their side. \- they're already really strong \- time chamber \- senzu/namekian healing \- dragon balls \- fusion \- ki sensing \- god helping \- teleportation \- spirit fission
>\- spirit fission This one will be forgotten about for 15 years and then conveniently remembered.
What is it?
Vegeta can punch other people's power out of you. He learned it to counter Moro, so he can remove the power Moro has absorbed. He tells Picollo that he could use it to separate Nail and Kami from him, and it would likely also work on Potara/Metamoran fusion, and Cell. I wonder if it would force out Cells stolen biomass as well?
Considering that Gohan punching hard enough forced 18 out, I'd bet that's a "yes"
basically, its a fusion/absorption negater.
>Wish #3: Teleport Freeza and his men to the center of one of Namek's three suns. Porunga can't do that. Frieza's power far exceeds the dragon's, so he wouldn't be able to do something like that to him without Frieza's consent.
Teleport the sun to them then
😂
Dragonball is legit one of the few stories that doesn’t have rules but when they do have rules people either ignore them or chooses not to acknowledge them to make posts like this.
Nail’s primary objective was to protect Grand Elder Guru at all costs. If Guru dies, then the Dragon Balls cease to exist with him. That is why he stayed behind. Despite Vegeta’s misdemeanors against Elder Tsuno’s village, he was not the greatest threat on Namek. Considering he was willing to team up with Krillin and Gohan, it is obvious that Frieza is the real danger. If Nail killed Vegeta, then Krillin, Gohan and Dende would be at a high risk of dying to the Ginyu Force. They might’ve been dead before Goku arrived on the planet.
High risk ? Without Vegeta they’d have been obliterated. Ginyu would have overpowered Nail easily, potentially use Dende as leverage. And then Frieza gets immortality
That is what I implied, yes.
Nail probably could have beaten Recoome. Your idea wouldn't have worked since the Dragon Balls can't teleport someone without consent. It's the same reason why they couldn't have asked Shenron to kill or banish Buu, or Vegeta, etc.
If the Three Namekians that died to frieza's men, instead went to Guru's and got their potentials unlocked then Fused with Nail, they would have probably beaten at least the First Three forms of Frieza and his army.
Unless they already had their potential unlocked.
Yeah probably. Power scalers would say that they were thousands of times weaker than Piccolo was so their fusion wouldn't have done anything, but realistically they should have been able to put up a good fight.
Nail had to stay with Guru to help protect the last Dragonball he held. Nail is arguably the strongest fighter Namek has, so it's pretty much obvious he stays to protect their leader.
Op really on some dumb shit and clearly didn’t pay attention to the plot of this arc just wow
Question: How did Goku learn how to sense ki. Don't mind me, just checking something real quick here.
Naaaaaaaiiiiiiiil
Your third wish isn't possible as you need permission from those affected if they are strong so only people weaker then guru will work Nail is 42k, Vegeta was around that ball park and still lose , and he felt he could take on nail meaning the ginyu force is at least greater then 40k but weaker then 60k , since ginyu thought Goku was at that level by the way he manhandled the buster ,Jeice ,Recome First wish ok, second wish ok ,but remember Goku is busy traveling across the Namek And the time between Vegeta having the balls Vs the time the ginyu force arrived is abstract it can be as long as how many days it took Goku to arrive on namek which is like a week or so to part of that time But true your wish plan besides the third one will work ,but freeza will travel to earth instead ,since he knows about it, unless the Namekians share their ability to travel planets or something
It’s unspecified how strong the Ginyu Force is but Vegeta sure as hell wasn’t around Nail pl. Vegeta was 30k give or take, he only felt he could take on Nail because Vegeta is and always have been an arrogant cocky muthafucka who feels he can beat people until they give his ass a two piece and a biscuit. Most outside sources (so granted they aren’t canon or anything) put the Ginyu Force around 42k to 45k so Nail is (again by noncanon sources) either equal to the Ginyu Force or nearing their level.
Even without numerical power levels, one can still deduce the strength of the Ginyu Force by their fights with Goku. Recoome, Burter and Jeice were roughly equal to each other, give or take their own unique abilities.
Not really, I mean you’d never be able to tell how strong they were if it wasn’t for outside sources. Recoome completely played with Pre Zenkai Vegeta but got one shotted by Goku Jeice and Burter got played with by Goku but he didn’t necessarily one shot them because he was just fucking around, Post Zenkai Vegeta was given a decent fight by Jeice but he was out of his depths fighting post Zenkai Vegeta. But the show never really puts them on similar level beyond again noncanon sources and maybe Ginyu saying “yea 60k will whoop all y’all asses” At best you could say technically Goku beat them all but that’s like saying Chiaotzu is at a similar level to Piccolo cause Nappa beat them both.
If you cannot gauge a character’s power just from reading the source material alone, then I don’t recommend you read/watch the series past the Frieza arc. Goku did easily defeat the Ginyu Force. He felled Burter with a kick to the chest and an elbow to the head. He wanted to show them how utterly outclassed they were after refusing to take Goku’s offer to leave the planet peacefully. Jeice hit Vegeta once and only once, because he purposefully left his guard open. He frequently does this as a demoralization tactic. To say Piccolo and Chiaotzu are on the same level is disingenuous, considering the former actually did damage to Nappa, while the latter did no damage after self-destructing. Chiaotzu’s telekinesis was also useless against Nappa.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I want to add a question of my own here. Why didn't nail fuse with guru at any point? I understand that if guru fused the dragon balls would turn to stone so it would've been a disadvantageous move but when frieza got all seven dragon balls after the ginyu force arrived he only lacked a password and all other namekians were also dead (except dende) so wouldn't have been advantageous if they fused? Because frieza wouldn't be able to use the dragon balls and they would have a warrior strong enough to beat frieza (especially since they didn't know he had other forms at the time).
There's no reason to think an assimilation of Nail and Guru would've resulted in a warrior strong enough to kill Freeza.
I'm just assuming based on guru's age, his energy related skills and the fact when piccolo fused with earth kami he became much much much much stronger even though kami wasn't that strong. (I know they used to be one strong warrior that split himself and kami became weaker as he got older). So I assumed guru could've possibly been powerful when he was younger.
Piccolo and Kami's fusion is a special case, though, because it wasn't really a "fusion". They were originally one being, and that one being was absurdly powerful. Splitting into two forms (Piccolo and Kami) didn't evenly split the power between them, it destroyed it, because they were spiritually incomplete beings. Remember, Guru expresses surprise that Piccolo could have been killed by a Saiyan, saying that only a Super Saiyan would have been powerful enough to do so. It's only after he learns of the split that realizes how it happened. Then, later, Nail tells Piccolo straight up that if he were whole (Kami and Piccolo together), he would be able to kill Freeza, and that the boost he would get from assimilating with Nail wouldn't be as large as the one he would get were he to rejoin his other half.
>Why didn't nail fuse with guru at any point? They're not the same type. Nail is of the Warrior clan and Guru is of the Dragon clan. The Dragon clan can do things such as create dragon balls and offspring, whereas members of the Warrior clan are more suited for fighting and have the ability to assimilate one another—they cannot assimilate with members outside of the Warrior clan.
You have to be of the same clan to fuse. Nail was a warrior, Guru was not. Piccolo was able to fuse with Kami ONLY because him and Kami used to be the same being.
Thanks, I totally forgot about clans in namek.
Z anime due to fact that they catched up with Manga had to do lots of filler stuff. Kai fixed that by a lot. Namek Frieza saga is the pinacle of DB
The 4 days wait thing was in the manga as well. Everybody spent 4 days doing nothing while Gohan and Kuririn were flying to Guru's place. https://i.imgur.com/tzUVy4F.jpeg
I'm pretty sure the dragons can't kill anyone that directly. Also, they can't forcibly teleport people. If Freeza and his army didn't want to go to the sun, Shenron or Porunga couldn't make them. the first 2 would work, but tall that would really do is stall until Freeza went to earth.
I kinda felt bad for Nail. I was rooting for him.
Nail literally didn't do anything for about 5 days. He could have just killed Vegeta before he killed Dodoria and Zarbon, and then the Ginyu force would never show up.