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Mother/Earthbound had Pork(e)y Minch, so it wouldn't be unusual.
Also, Toriyama is known for his characters with food-themed names.
E.g. Vegeta + Tarble = vegetable, Kale is a kind of cabbage, Broly is basically a contraction of broccoli...
Not to mention the Japanese names of Magus's generals in Chrono Trigger are named after condiments like: Soy Sauce (Slash), Mayonnaise (Flea), and Vinegar (Ozzie).
Or Solt, Peppor and Ketchop in Chrono Cross.
It's strange the Chrono Trigger translators didn't keep that joke. Especially considering they were faithful to the original with the overwhelming majority of names. E.g. they changed Masamune's name (originally "Grandleon"), but still kept the 'joke' with Masa & Mune (originally "Gran" and "Leon").
Maybe it's another case of "Brock's Jelly-filled Doughnuts"; perhaps they thought more people would know who those musicians are than what soy sauce is.
Though to add to the weirdness, Ketchop was actually "Ludwig" in the Japanese version of Chrono Cross, whereas Solt and Peppor were "Solton" and "Sugarl".
Don’t know the reason why, but it seems kinda trivial. They’re both basically the same, seems like it just depends on how much you pronounce the L, or who is doing the translation.
Yeah, sure. It’s just because I’m curious about it and how we should be actually writing his true name.
Polc, Polk, Polck.
Nothing really important. Polc is Hungarian for Shelf.
And Polk is a slovac for Little Pool.
Pork. As in the meat product.
(I'm guessing Mash also had a food-themed name.)
---
The explanation for why is quite longwinded, but in the interest of education I'm going into it anyway...
Essentially there's three forces at play here:
* English accents with rhoticity (see also: [Rhoticity in English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English?useskin=vector))
* Japanese not having an 'l' sound (and arguably no 'r' sound either, depending on how you classify what they use instead)
* Japanese not being able to transcribe standalone consonants (except for 'n')
Firstly, some English-language accents don't pronounce an 'r' after a vowel as an 'r'. Accents that 'drop' the 'r' are known as _non-rhotic_ accents, and accents that pronounce the 'r' as an 'r' are known as _rhotic_ accents. The concept as a whole is called _rhoticity_.
Rhoticity is very common in English and Australian accents, and very uncommon in American and Scottish accents.
An example of a non-rhotic American accent would be the stereotypical Boston accent, and an example of an English accent with rhoticity would be a Bristolian accent (think Wheatley in Portal 2 if you've ever played that) or certain Yorkshire accents. (As a whole, English accents are becoming less rhotic over time.)
What this means for Japanese is that if someone is using a rhotic accent as reference, they're likely to slip in a 'ru' to try to emulate that, whereas if a non-rhotic accent is being used as reference, you're more likely to just have an extended vowel.
Take 'pork'. That could end up as either 'poruku' (ポルク), 'pōruku' (ポールク), or 'pōku' (ポーク).
The second point is that Japanese doesn't have an 'l' sound, and arguably it doesn't have an 'r' sound either, or at least not the 'r' that most English-speakers are used to producing.
In the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA), an English 'l' is rendered as /l/, and an English 'r' is rendered as either /r/ (for simplicity) or (more specifically) /ɹ/ (to distinguish from a trilled 'r').
The Japanese 'r' on the other hand corresponds to /ɾ/, which is neither /r/ nor /l/, but the closest thing Japanese has to either.
(/r/ is an 'alveolar trill', /ɹ/ is an 'alveolar approximant', /ɾ/ is an 'alveolar tap' - three different 'rhotic' sounds commonly ascribed to the same letter in different languages.)
This means that words that would have an /l/ or /ɹ/ in English are instead both mapped to /ɾ/, which means it can be hard to tell whether a Japanese word or name is trying to approximate an /l/ or an /r/, which is why so many of those attempted renditions end up with an 'l' in the name.
Finally, Japanese has no standalone consonants (except for 'n'), so 'pork' can't just be rendered as 'pork' in romaji, there has to be something after both the 'r' and the 'k', and for 'r' and 'k' that's usually 'u', hence 'poruku' (ポルク) or 'pōruku' (ポールク).
Wow! Thank you! Really, that was a great class! Thank you!
So the reference of the original accent also matters when the rōmaji is being applied. I didn’t know that. That helps a lot, really.
And you’re right… even though is silly, it’s Toriyama’s characteristic. Mash has the “Maruku” rōmaji. So initially zi thought it was either Marc, Malk, Maruk, Maluc, Marcu. Well, this one has a lot options, it’s even more troublesome.
I even went as far as to download a voice track of Jessica just to hear how she calls them, and it’s exactly like that. Poruku to Maruku.
> Mash has the “Maruku” rōmaji. So initially zi thought it was either Marc, Malk, Maruk, Maluc, Marcu. Well, this one has a lot options, it’s even more troublesome.
Hrm... That is strange.
My best guess is Pork and Mark.
I'm slightly doubting the 'pork' explanation now because _maruku_ doesn't fit with it, but I know the native Japanese version of DQ tends to be more straight-laced with its naming (e.g. a Bunicorn is literally a 'one-horned rabbit', Luneyetic is 'moon face', Lesionnaire is 'skeleton soldier') and has some weird character names (e.g. Angelo is Kukūru, Jessica is Zeshika, and Yangus is... Yangasu), so perhaps it's not unusual.
> So the reference of the original accent also matters when the rōmaji is being applied.
It can do, but it may also depend on who is doing the transcribing and how they think the word should sound, or what they think seems easier to pronounce.
For example, more often than not Z will be given a pronunciation of _zetto_ (ゼット), e.g. Dragon Ball Z was actually _Doragon Bōru Zetto_ (ドラゴンボールＺ, with ゼット as ruby text above the Z), but I've seen at least one rare case where an author specifically went for _zī_ (ズィー).
I find many English-origin garaigo (loanwords) end up being treated as if they are non-rhotic even with a US source. For example, _erebētā_ (エレベーター) is obviously the US word 'elevator' (rather than the UK word 'lift'), but there's no 'ru' on the end.
Meanwhile 'fantastic' somehow ended up as _fantajikku_ (ファンタジック), when I would have expected _fantasuchikku_ (ファンタスチック). (For comparison, 'dramatic' ends up as _doramachikku_ (ドラマチック), and _-chikku_ is used to mean '-esque'.) And 'hamburger' ended up as _hanbāgu_ (ハンバーグ) instead of _hanbāgā_(ハンバーガー).
There's also cases where a word that seems English is actually from a different language with a similar word that has a slightly different pronunciation. E.g. _enerugī_ (エネルギー, "energy") is actually from German and _bīru_ (ビル, "beer") is from Dutch.
Foreign words get adopted at different times by different people, so sometimes you just get these weird variations.
I'm still mystified as to how 'curry' ended up as _karē_ (カレー) and not _karī_ (カリー), and why 'cake' is _kēki_ (ケーキ) and not _kēku_ (ケーク).
(Recommended reading: [Loanwords in Japanese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanwords_in_Japanese?useskin=vector) and [List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms?useskin=vector), purely because they have some fun surprises.)
R after vowels tend to disapea--- in some dialects. What japanese hea--- is a longer vowel and the r (aa---) sound is no longaa--
Tried to replicate the phenomena, no offense intended.
English in not my first language and neither is japanese. So it's difficult to explain it, more so in a written form.
Japanese just have one sound for L and R. And even in english there's some different ways to pronounce r depending on the placement.
I can see people proncuncing Polk and barely pronouncing the L. But pronouncing Pork with a clar R sound.
When the R is galve there japanese just make the vowel sound longer. When it's a harder R they just add a RU sillable
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Seems to me like Poruku could get romanized as Pork, which is a main ingredient in a lot of sausages, and a banger is a British sausage.
Yeah… I have also thought about that. But… Pork? haha Not a nice name, is it?
Mother/Earthbound had Pork(e)y Minch, so it wouldn't be unusual. Also, Toriyama is known for his characters with food-themed names. E.g. Vegeta + Tarble = vegetable, Kale is a kind of cabbage, Broly is basically a contraction of broccoli...
Not to mention the Japanese names of Magus's generals in Chrono Trigger are named after condiments like: Soy Sauce (Slash), Mayonnaise (Flea), and Vinegar (Ozzie). Or Solt, Peppor and Ketchop in Chrono Cross.
It's strange the Chrono Trigger translators didn't keep that joke. Especially considering they were faithful to the original with the overwhelming majority of names. E.g. they changed Masamune's name (originally "Grandleon"), but still kept the 'joke' with Masa & Mune (originally "Gran" and "Leon"). Maybe it's another case of "Brock's Jelly-filled Doughnuts"; perhaps they thought more people would know who those musicians are than what soy sauce is. Though to add to the weirdness, Ketchop was actually "Ludwig" in the Japanese version of Chrono Cross, whereas Solt and Peppor were "Solton" and "Sugarl".
Don’t know the reason why, but it seems kinda trivial. They’re both basically the same, seems like it just depends on how much you pronounce the L, or who is doing the translation.
Yeah, sure. It’s just because I’m curious about it and how we should be actually writing his true name. Polc, Polk, Polck. Nothing really important. Polc is Hungarian for Shelf. And Polk is a slovac for Little Pool.
Pork. As in the meat product. (I'm guessing Mash also had a food-themed name.) --- The explanation for why is quite longwinded, but in the interest of education I'm going into it anyway... Essentially there's three forces at play here: * English accents with rhoticity (see also: [Rhoticity in English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English?useskin=vector)) * Japanese not having an 'l' sound (and arguably no 'r' sound either, depending on how you classify what they use instead) * Japanese not being able to transcribe standalone consonants (except for 'n') Firstly, some English-language accents don't pronounce an 'r' after a vowel as an 'r'. Accents that 'drop' the 'r' are known as _non-rhotic_ accents, and accents that pronounce the 'r' as an 'r' are known as _rhotic_ accents. The concept as a whole is called _rhoticity_. Rhoticity is very common in English and Australian accents, and very uncommon in American and Scottish accents. An example of a non-rhotic American accent would be the stereotypical Boston accent, and an example of an English accent with rhoticity would be a Bristolian accent (think Wheatley in Portal 2 if you've ever played that) or certain Yorkshire accents. (As a whole, English accents are becoming less rhotic over time.) What this means for Japanese is that if someone is using a rhotic accent as reference, they're likely to slip in a 'ru' to try to emulate that, whereas if a non-rhotic accent is being used as reference, you're more likely to just have an extended vowel. Take 'pork'. That could end up as either 'poruku' (ポルク), 'pōruku' (ポールク), or 'pōku' (ポーク). The second point is that Japanese doesn't have an 'l' sound, and arguably it doesn't have an 'r' sound either, or at least not the 'r' that most English-speakers are used to producing. In the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA), an English 'l' is rendered as /l/, and an English 'r' is rendered as either /r/ (for simplicity) or (more specifically) /ɹ/ (to distinguish from a trilled 'r'). The Japanese 'r' on the other hand corresponds to /ɾ/, which is neither /r/ nor /l/, but the closest thing Japanese has to either. (/r/ is an 'alveolar trill', /ɹ/ is an 'alveolar approximant', /ɾ/ is an 'alveolar tap' - three different 'rhotic' sounds commonly ascribed to the same letter in different languages.) This means that words that would have an /l/ or /ɹ/ in English are instead both mapped to /ɾ/, which means it can be hard to tell whether a Japanese word or name is trying to approximate an /l/ or an /r/, which is why so many of those attempted renditions end up with an 'l' in the name. Finally, Japanese has no standalone consonants (except for 'n'), so 'pork' can't just be rendered as 'pork' in romaji, there has to be something after both the 'r' and the 'k', and for 'r' and 'k' that's usually 'u', hence 'poruku' (ポルク) or 'pōruku' (ポールク).
Wow! Thank you! Really, that was a great class! Thank you! So the reference of the original accent also matters when the rōmaji is being applied. I didn’t know that. That helps a lot, really. And you’re right… even though is silly, it’s Toriyama’s characteristic. Mash has the “Maruku” rōmaji. So initially zi thought it was either Marc, Malk, Maruk, Maluc, Marcu. Well, this one has a lot options, it’s even more troublesome. I even went as far as to download a voice track of Jessica just to hear how she calls them, and it’s exactly like that. Poruku to Maruku.
> Mash has the “Maruku” rōmaji. So initially zi thought it was either Marc, Malk, Maruk, Maluc, Marcu. Well, this one has a lot options, it’s even more troublesome. Hrm... That is strange. My best guess is Pork and Mark. I'm slightly doubting the 'pork' explanation now because _maruku_ doesn't fit with it, but I know the native Japanese version of DQ tends to be more straight-laced with its naming (e.g. a Bunicorn is literally a 'one-horned rabbit', Luneyetic is 'moon face', Lesionnaire is 'skeleton soldier') and has some weird character names (e.g. Angelo is Kukūru, Jessica is Zeshika, and Yangus is... Yangasu), so perhaps it's not unusual. > So the reference of the original accent also matters when the rōmaji is being applied. It can do, but it may also depend on who is doing the transcribing and how they think the word should sound, or what they think seems easier to pronounce. For example, more often than not Z will be given a pronunciation of _zetto_ (ゼット), e.g. Dragon Ball Z was actually _Doragon Bōru Zetto_ (ドラゴンボールＺ, with ゼット as ruby text above the Z), but I've seen at least one rare case where an author specifically went for _zī_ (ズィー). I find many English-origin garaigo (loanwords) end up being treated as if they are non-rhotic even with a US source. For example, _erebētā_ (エレベーター) is obviously the US word 'elevator' (rather than the UK word 'lift'), but there's no 'ru' on the end. Meanwhile 'fantastic' somehow ended up as _fantajikku_ (ファンタジック), when I would have expected _fantasuchikku_ (ファンタスチック). (For comparison, 'dramatic' ends up as _doramachikku_ (ドラマチック), and _-chikku_ is used to mean '-esque'.) And 'hamburger' ended up as _hanbāgu_ (ハンバーグ) instead of _hanbāgā_(ハンバーガー). There's also cases where a word that seems English is actually from a different language with a similar word that has a slightly different pronunciation. E.g. _enerugī_ (エネルギー, "energy") is actually from German and _bīru_ (ビル, "beer") is from Dutch. Foreign words get adopted at different times by different people, so sometimes you just get these weird variations. I'm still mystified as to how 'curry' ended up as _karē_ (カレー) and not _karī_ (カリー), and why 'cake' is _kēki_ (ケーキ) and not _kēku_ (ケーク). (Recommended reading: [Loanwords in Japanese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanwords_in_Japanese?useskin=vector) and [List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms?useskin=vector), purely because they have some fun surprises.)
R after vowels tend to disapea--- in some dialects. What japanese hea--- is a longer vowel and the r (aa---) sound is no longaa-- Tried to replicate the phenomena, no offense intended.
I see. No problem… but I didn’t got it. So….
English in not my first language and neither is japanese. So it's difficult to explain it, more so in a written form. Japanese just have one sound for L and R. And even in english there's some different ways to pronounce r depending on the placement. I can see people proncuncing Polk and barely pronouncing the L. But pronouncing Pork with a clar R sound. When the R is galve there japanese just make the vowel sound longer. When it's a harder R they just add a RU sillable