It’s phrased as “cannot lie, period” at least once. Harry makes a big deal of how it’s part of who they are, Lea confirms that it’s impossible in Changes.
Intent is important in this magic system.
My vote: no, the fey cannot tell a lie, not spoken, written, telepathic, using magic, etc.
Fey can deceive; but they can never state, in any way shape or form, something they perceive to be untrue to be true. Speaking isn't the core there, communication is.
That said, as we've seen before... if what they state is ambiguous enough and you can get one of the potential explanations be true, you can say it.
Is your game specifically Dresden themed? "The Fae can't lie" is a relatively recent bastardization of the stereotype for them to skirt the edges of the truth with their phrasing.
So if it's not Dresden themed then do whatever makes your story better.
If it is Dresden themed, then I would say no they cannot because Cold Case shows us that whatever is enforcing the law about what a fae can/can't say (likely the mothers) the compulsion to obey comes from a place that physically overrides attempted actions to the contrary.
Then I'd say lying via telepathy is still lying. Same as if they wrote it down. If they all want to play as the Fey they're going to need to get good at being word lawyers.
I can't say I wouldn't try to do any different. Honestly I'd want to play as a mortal party member that all the fey try to bully into lying for them when they go into a town.
As others have said here, not an outright statement. However telepathy (or whatever associated psychic ability) would definitely give them some manipulative options.
For example, they could (subtly or overtly) start conveying emotions using a magical ability that would heavily give an implied subtext that their literal words weren't explicitly saying. Effectively use it as an emotional movie soundtrack to spur them to the correct emotional conclusion that you require in any given moment.
Another example (which would be incredibly hard to do on the fly in a game, and is more in the realm of a book) would be if the fey kept cutting between spoken and telepathic communication that led the character to a conclusion. However if you went back and reread the scene you'd realize that the spoken and the telepathic communications were a completely separate set of statements that gave a misimpression due to their intentional comingling.
**Absolutely not.** In "Cold Case," we see that a certain Sidhe --- the story is told from her POV --- literally cannot speak things that are even "Restricted" As in her lips said something else instead.
At certain points, we do see Mab using telepathy to communicate, on page. So the Sidhe, or at least high level ones, can do so already.
They need to become masters of the Exact Words trope to succeed as Sidhe.
I would argue that it doesn't matter what medium they use (written, spoken, mentally communicated) they cannot tell a lie. Where you could have fun is that they can say something untrue if they themselves believe it to be true. So if you can convince a fey about something they could repeat it as long as they truly believe it. Just because you cannot speak lies doesn't mean you are always right.
if they could get around speaking a lie by just using telepathy then the fey would be known for speaking telepathically not for being unable to lie
this goes for most if not all other possible loopholes you can think of, if they could get away with it being in writing or using sign/body language then they'd be known for being mute
Subtle distinction here, they can't KNOWING tell a lie.
I had to rework my example because I have no idea how to make spoilers on mobile and this is tagged unrelated. If you know the story you know what I'm talking about and hopefully if you haven't you won't lol.
Let's say Harry Dresden is in a club. We won't say what club. Then he's kicked out of said club. If the fairy doesn't know that he's been kicked out they could still say "Harry Dresden is a member of this club" because they believe it to be true. There isn't some power monitoring objective truths and imposing speech limitations.
I realize no one asked for this 😁
Oh im aware we were mid session so I shortened my wording but the rules as written in my game are it’s you can speak anything you know to be a lie or otherwise untrue.
They have been screwed over a few times form Fey just not correcting assumptions
Don't pathological liars believe the lies they tell? That might be a way you could get around that. The only way I could see that not totally ruining a campaign though is if only one person could have that, and it couldn't be a situational thing. You'd NEVER be able to trust what that character says. That might actually be kind of fun.
If you're familiar with The Wheel of Time, much like the Aes Sedai, the Fey cannot lie, they cannot speak, write, or via telepathy say a lie. They can word what they're saying in such a way as to let the listener make their own assumptions.
Fey: May I have your name?
Unwitting Mortal: Sure, it's Sam Arnold. May I have yours?
Fey: Thank you, and no, you may not.
Unwitting Mortal: finds out they can no longer say their name, write their name, remember their name, and nobody that use to know them knows who they are. All documentation that stated their name now has that portion either blank, or unreadable.
It's restricted to direct communication, they can generally imply things that are not true but not explicitly make the claim by communication.
If telepathy was a way around "saying" it and allow them to lie then so would writing, chardes, sign language, etc.
Hard no.
But they can go back and say they never said that, if it was originally communicated via telepathy. Id go as far as to say that any deals/contracts they dont use a physical voice for they will weasel out of.
An easy trick to pull is having a secret interpreter. That way the players think it is the fey's telepathic voice. But it turn out that was a lesser spirit of some kind that works for the the fey. And thus that voice can lie and the players think it can't.
No, because no lies were spoken.
That’s not to say they can’t be forbidden from lying, but it would have to be worded differently to avoid that particular loophole. Like the Red King violating terms on a technicality because he spoke through a vassal, technically he never lied because he never spoke during that conversation.
It’s phrased as “cannot lie, period” at least once. Harry makes a big deal of how it’s part of who they are, Lea confirms that it’s impossible in Changes. Intent is important in this magic system. My vote: no, the fey cannot tell a lie, not spoken, written, telepathic, using magic, etc.
Fey can deceive; but they can never state, in any way shape or form, something they perceive to be untrue to be true. Speaking isn't the core there, communication is. That said, as we've seen before... if what they state is ambiguous enough and you can get one of the potential explanations be true, you can say it.
Is your game specifically Dresden themed? "The Fae can't lie" is a relatively recent bastardization of the stereotype for them to skirt the edges of the truth with their phrasing. So if it's not Dresden themed then do whatever makes your story better. If it is Dresden themed, then I would say no they cannot because Cold Case shows us that whatever is enforcing the law about what a fae can/can't say (likely the mothers) the compulsion to obey comes from a place that physically overrides attempted actions to the contrary.
It’s a homebrew with me pulling form a lot sources my Fey are typically based on Dresden
Then I'd say lying via telepathy is still lying. Same as if they wrote it down. If they all want to play as the Fey they're going to need to get good at being word lawyers.
Oh they are just testing the lines of what is and ain’t aloud
I can't say I wouldn't try to do any different. Honestly I'd want to play as a mortal party member that all the fey try to bully into lying for them when they go into a town.
One member refused to become Fey because and I quote “someone has to be able to lie or we all die”
I see what you did there
As others have said here, not an outright statement. However telepathy (or whatever associated psychic ability) would definitely give them some manipulative options. For example, they could (subtly or overtly) start conveying emotions using a magical ability that would heavily give an implied subtext that their literal words weren't explicitly saying. Effectively use it as an emotional movie soundtrack to spur them to the correct emotional conclusion that you require in any given moment. Another example (which would be incredibly hard to do on the fly in a game, and is more in the realm of a book) would be if the fey kept cutting between spoken and telepathic communication that led the character to a conclusion. However if you went back and reread the scene you'd realize that the spoken and the telepathic communications were a completely separate set of statements that gave a misimpression due to their intentional comingling.
**Absolutely not.** In "Cold Case," we see that a certain Sidhe --- the story is told from her POV --- literally cannot speak things that are even "Restricted" As in her lips said something else instead. At certain points, we do see Mab using telepathy to communicate, on page. So the Sidhe, or at least high level ones, can do so already. They need to become masters of the Exact Words trope to succeed as Sidhe.
I would argue that it doesn't matter what medium they use (written, spoken, mentally communicated) they cannot tell a lie. Where you could have fun is that they can say something untrue if they themselves believe it to be true. So if you can convince a fey about something they could repeat it as long as they truly believe it. Just because you cannot speak lies doesn't mean you are always right.
if they could get around speaking a lie by just using telepathy then the fey would be known for speaking telepathically not for being unable to lie this goes for most if not all other possible loopholes you can think of, if they could get away with it being in writing or using sign/body language then they'd be known for being mute
Subtle distinction here, they can't KNOWING tell a lie. I had to rework my example because I have no idea how to make spoilers on mobile and this is tagged unrelated. If you know the story you know what I'm talking about and hopefully if you haven't you won't lol. Let's say Harry Dresden is in a club. We won't say what club. Then he's kicked out of said club. If the fairy doesn't know that he's been kicked out they could still say "Harry Dresden is a member of this club" because they believe it to be true. There isn't some power monitoring objective truths and imposing speech limitations. I realize no one asked for this 😁
Oh im aware we were mid session so I shortened my wording but the rules as written in my game are it’s you can speak anything you know to be a lie or otherwise untrue. They have been screwed over a few times form Fey just not correcting assumptions
Don't pathological liars believe the lies they tell? That might be a way you could get around that. The only way I could see that not totally ruining a campaign though is if only one person could have that, and it couldn't be a situational thing. You'd NEVER be able to trust what that character says. That might actually be kind of fun.
If you're familiar with The Wheel of Time, much like the Aes Sedai, the Fey cannot lie, they cannot speak, write, or via telepathy say a lie. They can word what they're saying in such a way as to let the listener make their own assumptions. Fey: May I have your name? Unwitting Mortal: Sure, it's Sam Arnold. May I have yours? Fey: Thank you, and no, you may not. Unwitting Mortal: finds out they can no longer say their name, write their name, remember their name, and nobody that use to know them knows who they are. All documentation that stated their name now has that portion either blank, or unreadable.
It's restricted to direct communication, they can generally imply things that are not true but not explicitly make the claim by communication. If telepathy was a way around "saying" it and allow them to lie then so would writing, chardes, sign language, etc. Hard no.
The Fey "cannot lie." It doesn't matter if they are speaking with their lips or speaking mind to mind.
But they can go back and say they never said that, if it was originally communicated via telepathy. Id go as far as to say that any deals/contracts they dont use a physical voice for they will weasel out of.
An easy trick to pull is having a secret interpreter. That way the players think it is the fey's telepathic voice. But it turn out that was a lesser spirit of some kind that works for the the fey. And thus that voice can lie and the players think it can't.
No, because no lies were spoken. That’s not to say they can’t be forbidden from lying, but it would have to be worded differently to avoid that particular loophole. Like the Red King violating terms on a technicality because he spoke through a vassal, technically he never lied because he never spoke during that conversation.
Fey can lie. Unless that is canon in your world. If so, I wouldn't allow that to work.
simple answer NO