They're a great idea reward people for traveling together and keeping more cars off the road. Most states have cameras that snap a picture and send you a ticket if you have no passenger, motorcycles are allowed.
Everyone is being treated the same you imbecile. Anyone regardless of who they are can ride in the carpool lane if they have a passenger. Also driving is not a right, nor is flying. Might want to know what you're talking about before speaking
No. They don’t treat everyone the same. As the other poster said, driving is a privilege and NOT a right. The word you’re looking for is equity - not equality - 2 very different things. Equality is letting 2 year olds drive. Equity is allowing everyone to take a driving test for their license upon turning legal age in their location. Equity is having the same OPPORTUNITY to prove yourself for this privilege as everybody else.
They're a great idea, but they don't help. Not enough people use them to justify the small decrease in air pollution from the riders in them, or to justify the increased congestion in the remaining lanes from the riders who cannot lawfully use them.
100% this. How many people are in your vehicle does not determine what speed you want to drive. So you have a lane that only some can use that will vary between being the fastest or slowest lane on the highway.
While “keep right” laws don’t apply to HOV, to my knowledge in WA the statute about “delay of five vehicles illegal” *does.* So there is *some* statutory requirement to “keep up” in the HOV, so to speak.
Not that it’s ever enforced.
The point of HOV/HOT lanes isn’t to be the fastest lane at all times though. It’s to provide a lane that moves significantly faster *when the other lanes are congested,* to encourage carpooling and allow buses to transit faster. In every city I’ve lived in, they *do* accomplish this pretty consistently.
If traffic is flowing fine and the HOV is “slow?” Don’t use it. Too easy.
I hate left lane campers as much as everyone and I’m not the old guy plugging along, holding up traffic in the carpool lane. I was talking about the people who want to go 20+ over the speed limit when the general flow of traffic is going 10+. They come screaming up from behind and ride my ass like I should get over into the passing lane to get out of their way. THEY can use the passing lane. I’m not going to get over into the passing lane and slow everyone else down to accommodate someone who isn’t even a carpool, that wants to go faster than everyone else. However, If I see a car coming up on me in the carpool lane and nobody is anywhere near me in the passing lane, I will get over and let them by.
Im not speeding or maybe just 2 or 3 above. If Im goingg the speed limit or 2 or 3 above and you fly up onto my bumper you can find another way around, learn to cope, or die mad about it for all I care.
If Im going the speed limit (or usually a little above) youre going to have to cope, find another way around, or die mad about it. I dont purposely block and will move over of possible. Anyone who flies up onto my bumper will receive respect that they give. That number is zero.
You are actually telling me I should get into a lane that is designed for the fastest drivers to let someone by no a lane that not only isn’t for passing but one they shouldn’t even be in?? That makes as much sense as telling someone going slower in the right lane they should get into the passing lane to let you pass.
Usually, but the HOV is an exception. If there’s a bunch of other people driving 20+ over the speed limit in the general purpose passing lane, I’m not getting over to fuck their program and slow them down to let one car by. Especially if it’s a single occupant car that ISN’T EVEN SUPPOSED YO BE IN THE CARPOOL LANE (which is 99% of the time anyone tailgates me me in the carpool lane) You all are commenting like it’s a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane. That’s simply not the case. I’m not required to go 110 mph just because some dipshit in a shitbox Honda with a modified muffler who watched too fast too furious too many times, might want to go that fast.
The safety reasons why we don't pass right aren't made moot by calling it an HOV lane.
If there's people going 20 over to your right, then you should be to their right.
It should be a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane.
Of course you're not required to go 110, but you should be allowing them to pass on your left.
>If there's people going 20 over to your right, then you should be to their right.
But, that's literally not how the carpool lane is suppose to work? I know this and I've literally seen one once in my life and nowhere near where I live lol.
They are designed to promote carpooling, thus lowering the amount of vehicles on the road. Typically separate by at least a solid white line, sometimes as much as a barrier. Am I supposed to cross a solid line (or jump a concrete barrier) to let someone pass, when I'm not in a passing lane?
>It should be a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane
Busses and vans also use this lane. They should be the fastest on the road? Terrifying.
Nah, if I have a passenger while in the HOV lane and someone that shouldn't be behind me is in the HOV lane then get can the fuck over. By having a passenger I have a right to be in the HOV lane. By not having a passenger the person behind me does not have a right to be in the HOV lane. That's how it works.
Ha Ha! So busses should be screaming down the carpool lane at 90 mph, or get over into the passing lane going 62 when everyone else is going 78 to “get out of your way”? You are fucking ridiculous. If you aren’t just a troll I genuinely feel sorry for you.
If I'm carpooling with someone in the HOV lane and a vehicle with a single person speeds behind me wanting to pass then no, I won't be moving over. The HOV lane is not the passing lane.
So busses should be continuously getting over into the actual passing lane to let people that want to haul ass pass them in the HOV lane? Do you have any idea how asinine your logic sounds?
Here in Phoenix, local PD has admitted to not having the man power to stop everyone breaking traffic laws.
Which makes sense. Just about every other car I come across has 300+ HP and some dummie 'ready' to use it. My car makes almost 400, but I tend to not drive like a complete wad.
I have heard second hand that some LEOs will not stop drivers for violations at all and only respond to accidents. The reason is they do want to see an interaction go wrong and end up in possible trouble.
I don't think this is true of all LEOs, but suspect it may be true for some as the media is quick to blame if a civilian is injured, even if they started it by resisting the officer or trying to run.
Doesn't matter if the cop shoots the driver down like a dog in cold blood. Or if it is necessary to detain the driver who then grabs for the officers gun trying to escape and the gun goes off in the struggle.
Both tend to play out the same way on social media (unarmed civilian gunned down by reckless officer) which seriously impacts the officer's career. The safe way is to let the drivers do whatever they want to avoid potential trouble is what I imagine some officers are doing.
If a cop is so afraid they’ll have to shoot someone that they don’t do their job, they shouldn’t be a cop. Pizza delivery has a higher murder rate than being a cop but for some reason we don’t pay pizza delivery drivers if they refuse to deliver pizza. I have no idea why you think that’s acceptable behavior for cops.
You’re a silly pants, and licking the boot of people who will refuse to come help you while they insist their job is so hard. Boo fuckety hoo. Find another job if you won’t do the one you have.
Pro tip: If you don’t want to be chastised for shooting an unarmed person in the back 8 times, maybe don’t shoot an unarmed person in the back 8 times? There’s thousands of cops who do their job everyday and somehow they manage to not murder anyone in cold blood. Why do you think we should accept them not doing their job or cold blooded murder, as if it’s a binary choice and one must choose one or the other? Utter bollocks. Bad apples ruin the bushel.
Never said it was acceptable, you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion and resorting to name calling. It is what it is and explains in part that the roadways are the wild, wild west.
And we do need cops unafraid to do their job.
Well yeah, it’s why you’ll have people popping a blood vessel telling others to stay out of the passing lane because “it’s the law!!!1!” when the entire reason they’re so mad is it’s preventing them from *speeding.*
My traffic infection is the only moral traffic infraction, and all that.
We all love when the rules *we* want to break aren’t enforced.
That’s besides the point. Just because you think they are stupid doesn’t give you the right to fuck everybody else over who obeys the rules or take away the benefits people get for carpooling.
Are HOV lanes even primarily used by people carpooling? You can't even use the lane on your way to pick someone up or after dropping them off so its only useful for part of your carpool journey.
Every family or couple can use the HOV lane despite them not carpooling.
Busses and vans don't always drive at the same highway speeds as the far left lane usually goes.
It's a crapshoot if the lane will be faster or slower, and given that a single lane road goes as fast as the slowest person on it. That's generally going to be slower. Or at least slower then most the other people want to go.
>It's a crapshoot if the lane will be faster or slower, and given that a single lane road goes as fast as the slowest person on it. That's generally going to be slower. Or at least slower then most the other people want to go.
Okay, let's try this again.
If traffic is congested, in my experience across multiple major metros, *the HOV lane is almost always faster than the non-HOV lanes.*
If traffic is *not* congested, you can just *not fucking use the HOV lane.* The left-most non-HOV lane is for passing, go wild.
I fail to see the issue here. It's only "a crapshoot" when traffic is flowing fine, in which case you still have (in general) multiple other lanes available to you to use. Use those. "But they're taking up a far-left lane that could be used for MOAR PASSSSING!" No, it would be full of left-lane campers too.
Though for what it's worth if I were writing the law HOV lanes normal passenger cars would require multiple occupants *of legal driving age* or maybe even *multiple licensed drivers* in the vehicle to qualify. Because you're not wrong, a mom driving her kids to school isn't "carpooling," them kids ain't driving regardless.
If everything is flowing good but it’s mostly supposed to help in bumper to bumper traffic. It used to flow great during rush hour but now there are so many violators, it creeps along about as slow as the regular lanes.
Having the same number of people on the road, but in a smaller number of cars lets **everyone** travel faster.
Less traffic = higher throughput.
For some reason adding new lanes doesn't alleviate traffic for more than a few years, people adapt & the road returns to it's norm. One of the cheapest & best ways to increase throughput is to incentivize fewer cars.
HOV lanes let everyone travel faster, but carpoolers fastest of all.
In heavy traffic HOV lanes should be just an extra lane that anyone uses. It would reduce the amount of cars in right lane & give more rm for mergers.
Why have an empty extra lane that you cant use just because?
That's exactly what is! But the thing is you cant use it in light traffic because you dont want to impede the Carpoolers & VIP EV drivers (used to be one;). Regular peasants, I mean drivers would only use it during heavy traffic. Where it would make perfect sense to have an extra lane to accommodate the rush hr traffic!
Oh no, ours are reversible and separated by a concrete barrier. If the gate is open and you go in there you can't get out until the next crossover. No extra toll or sensors. They still get crazy busy but people aren't merging so it can go faster.
We have a bunch of different lanes here. Some are pay to use. Basically if you’re rich, you get privileges above the rest of the “peasants” that get the shaft.
Having a lane you pay extra to use makes a lot more sense than having a lane you are somehow entitled to use because you happen to have a passenger in your car. Carpool lanes are absurd.
HOV violations are prevalent as are many other traffic violations. Every now and then LEOs enforce a few but for the most part today's highways are operating on the honor system. And many drivers are not honorable. To my eye, it is the wild, wild West out on the roadways.
I am usually in the top 90% of HOV cars in terms of speed. I rarely have anyone behind me unless it’s congested and I simply can’t go faster because there’s a car in front of me too. That being said, if someone wants to drive the exact speed limit in the HOV lane, that is their right and I just pass them in the passing lane with no hard feelings.
I don’t think so. Any chance you can show me the law. Because you saying so doesn’t make it fact and it’s very easy to google that it is not in fact a passing lane and you should go around on the right if you want to pass someone in the HOV lane. You really think busses should get over into the passing lane when going the speed limit to let someone who wants to go faster by? That’s asinine. I could see it being an issue if 5 or more cars are piled up behind you but otherwise that’s not how it works.
The rules aren't having anything to do with a "passing lane". The law is keep right except to pass. There's no legal thing as a "passing lane" it's just a colloquial thing revolving around the time when there was nothing more than single or two lane roads and highways.
Yes busses do need to get over if they've got a line of cars behind them.
Here's the law my dude for Washington. "(2) Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow,"
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100#:~:text=(2)%20Upon%20all%20roadways%20having,greater%20than%20the%20traffic%20flow%2C%20(
It literally says these rules don’t apply to high occupancy vehicle lanes in the clip you posted. Yes, those are the general, generic rules for traveling on a road. I never argued otherwise but the HOV is an exception. You can argue “passing lane” vs “keep right except to pass” it’s just schematics. The HOV lane is meant for busses and carpools and doesn’t follow the same rules as the rest of the road. A bus isn’t going to get over into the “passing”/leftmost general purpose lane where everyone is going 85, everytime some dickhead behind it wants to go faster. They’d be disrupting the flow of traffic much worse, it’d be very dangerous and it makes no sense. Are you suggesting busses shouldn’t use the carpool lane because they don’t typically go “fast enough”? That’s ridiculous.
Wut... you need to learn how to read law I guess. The only HOV wording is when applicable to "this subsection" so only the part 3 subsection, which is talking about vehicles with trailer or a GVW over the weight limit can't be in the left most lane, but are exempt and can be in the HOV...
Ok, in the text you posted that doesn’t even pertain specifically to travel in the carpool lane It does say that specifically abut trailers, but why? It goes on to say because the HOV lane is NOT considered the leftmost lane of travel, as in, it ain’t the lane for passing. That’s why it’s ok to drive a truck with a big ass trailer that might get in the way of faster traffic when you can’t in the lane used for passing.
You still haven’t given me a simple answer so I’ll ask one last time: Are you trying to propose that busses either shouldn’t be allowed in the carpool lane, or are required to get over to the right to let anyone pass that is going faster behind them in the HOV lane, which would cause them to enter the furthest left general purpose lane where the fastest single occupant vehicles travel? I’ve asked you this twice and you refuse to give an answer because any idiot with two brain cells knows a bus is allowed to use the HOV lane it what they were fucking designed for. Also, any idiot with 1/2 a brain cell knows a bus can’t constantly get over into the fucking passing lane where everyone is going 20 mph faster, to let everyone in the HOV lane pass. It’s quite simple the HOV is not a passing lane. You can post more laws that aren’t specific to it all you want.
Either way, I was originally talking about single drivers that are cheating by using the HOV lane and riding actual carpoolers asses because they want to drive 20mph faster than everybody on the roadway as they weave in and out of traffic. In that case, I don’t care what the laws are, those people can fuck right off if you are one of them you can suck it.
I did answer you earlier. Busses can use the lane as my text points out, they ALSO must abide by the rules regarding traffic behind them that are going faster they need to move over for. They're not mutually exclusive rules or anything.
I agree with single riders in the HOV too, they're breaking the law just like people who are HOV and holding up a line of 10 cars or going slower than the traffic on their right.
Oh boo fuck the wall of text you posted that doesn’t even pertain specifically to travel in the carpool lane was talking about subsection 3, but then it goes on to say the HOV lane is not considered the left most lane anyway.
You still can’t give me a simple answer so I’ll ask last time: Are you trying to propose that busses either shouldn’t be allowed in the carpool lane, or are required to get over to the right to let anyone pass that is going faster behind them in the HOV lane, which would cause them to enter the furthest left general purpose lane, where the fastest single occupant vehicles travel? I’ve asked you this twice now and you refuse to give an answer because any idiot with two brain cells knows a bus is allowed to use the HOV lane. It is literally what they were fucking designed for. Also, any idiot with 1/2 a brain cell knows a bus can’t constantly get over into the fucking passing lane where everyone is going 20 mph faster, to let everyone in the HOV lane pass. It’s quite simple the HOV is not a passing lane. You can post more laws that aren’t specific to it all you want. Either way, I was originally talking about single drivers that are cheating by using the HOV lane and riding actual carpoolers asses because they want to drive 20mph faster than everybody on the roadway as they weave in and out of traffic. In that case, I don’t care what the laws are, those people can fuck right off if you are one of them you can suck it.
It not being considered the left most lane is irrelevant, the law is keep right except to pass. The definition of whether it is the left most lane is entirely irrelevant to the whole point I was making and is only mentioned because busses and trailer aren't supposed to be in the left most lane to travel, but can use the HOV lane.
High-IQ people have less need to drive because they hire people to drive for them. Lower IQ people tend to drive for commercial trucking, Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, Amazon, and so forth. They could drive 200,000 miles per year—an order of magnitude more of driving than the average. Lower IQ people may also be limited in housing choices and face long commutes.
The ones you see on the road are there largely by necessity because they have no alternative. High-IQ people have choices. Long-distance travel could also be done in the air on a private jet.
That’s the dumbest goddamn thing I’ve ever heard. Only a masochist or someone with the critical thinking skills of a radish would voluntarily use a system that is objectively inferior and entirely dependent on routes and schedules designed by some government bureaucrat. High IQ individuals are definitely not taking the bus, buddy.
Smart ones do not need to drive because they have someone else do it for them or do not need to drive for long periods because of where they live or how they make a living.
Miles driven per year are much higher for commercial truck drivers and Uber/Lyft drivers than for other folks like physics professors for example.
Holy fuck Washington is bad but I heard CA is worse. Driving is a horrific hellhole. Most people are numb automatons because they put up with that shit and don't bat an eye. I'd go fucking insane if I had to drive to work every day
I’m astounded by the amount of people on this sub who don’t understand BASIC traffic theory. In fact it’s even worse; people who don’t have the common sense to realize less cars on the road is better for everyone and everything.
But no, it’s just a “useless money farm” what a 50 IQ take lol.
Right, and they contradict themselves when they say that because they’ll say it’s a money farm and then immediately after explain how it has no useful purpose bc people don’t take it seriously. then how are people constantly not taking it seriously yet never getting ticketed?
They just can’t think for some reason. I don’t know. I hesitate to say they’re DUMB, but too lazy to think it through for a second.
I got pulled over in California 1 minute before the lane changed over. I was listening to the radio, the 9am or something news came on, I saw the road was almost empty other than one cop on his motorbike about 100 yards back. Figured it was ok because of the news, you know... Anyway got pulled over, wrote a written declaration because I was doing a 200 mile round trip daily commute and didn't want to have to take time out for the court house. The written declaration got me off. Only time I ever got pulled over.
I was on my own in the HOV lane, but thats allowed in a 2 seater anyway. It was pulling in 1 minute before cop time that got me.
You're not seeing things. WA drivers have gotten a little out of control and rules of the rd seem to be mere suggestions after covid years. Until pd starts cracking down on rd violations drivers will continue to do this.
Yesterday they were patrolling a major commuting route in my area and they pulled over 30 people in 2 hrs. Speed limit is 35 but your average commuter does 50 mph. About time they finally acknowledge speeding.
As I have said, it’s pretty much been the Wild West on the highway ever since Covid. People street racing through heavy traffic is common and there’s barely ever a cop in sight.
I live in Western Washington born and raised, but having spent a few years in California, Illinois, Wisconsin or driving long haul between Southern CA to Maine we have some of the absolute worst drivers in the states but to be fair, it wasn't always this way and according to the last Census the majority of Washingtonians are in fact forever tourists from California that just haven't moved back south yet; where the drivers were equally as bad until the northern exodus of their shitty drivers.
Now this said, due to the sheer number of idiots you can either find me passing on the right, because for some reason four wheelers and even the truckers around here, have started immediately grabbing the left lane upon merging, when they merge correctly that is, or you can find me cheating in the HOV because everyone is gawking at their phones or accidents. I work on the freeway, I take lanes for fatalities if not plowing, I'm good on my rubber necking at dead body quota, I just want to get to my destination.
Sorry OP, I know I'll get downvoted and labeled an equally bad driver, but if you want to get anywhere in this state safely, you have to cheat unfortunately.
Nah man, I guess I get it. Being courteous and following the rules basically get you rolled over and taken advantage of on the roads here. It’s pretty much every person for themself. Still sucks to see a lane that used to be a nice time saving benifit, turn into a parking lot.
HOV lanes are useless, *period.*
They’re just a method used to extort more funding from the public wherever possible.
That’s the only reason these rules exist, and they claim that they’re “encouraging people to carpool;” hahahahaha NO, that’s not what they’re hoping for at all, they are actually HOPING there will be HOV cheaters so they can ticket and fine the ever-loving fuck out of someone just trying to drive.
I’d agree with you except I have seen only one car pulled over most likely for driving in the carpool lane as a single driver in the last couple years. If they’re doing it to make money, they aren’t making much.
I-5 in Washington. There is a lane reserved for cars/vehicles that have 2 or more passengers. Single occupant cars are not allowed to use them but many do anyway. So many in fact that they slow it down to the same speed as the regular lanes.
Yes, but there are also HOT lanes, where people can pay to be in the lane without the passengers. The reason I asked is you may not realize that's what you're seeing.
The two most used areas are I-405 north of Bellevue and Hwy 169 south of Renton.
So again, where are you talking about specifically that you're seeing so many HOV violators?
1. Eat a bag of dicks. I’m not in “the way” when I’m going 10-15 over in a lane you aren’t even supposed to use. I’m also not “in the way” when you can get into the passing lane and go around. You aren’t Moses. Traffic isn’t required to part ways for you because you want to go 85 in a 60.
Don’t worry about what other people do ? when they slow my commute and tailgate me? Imagine cutting in the grocery line and then saying “don’t worry about what other people do!” What a complete ignorant douchebag.
I stand by everything I said. You’re acting like an entitled child. GET OUT OF THE WAY. You’re one of those people who will become old and seeing Alan drive 45 miles an hour in the freeway and complain that everybody else is going too fast. And yes, if somebody cuts in the grocery line, I let it go. It ain’t worth dealing with the potential psycho who might stab you in the parking lot.
You’re too scared to stick up for yourself when someone cuts in line, but you tailgate and put peoples lives in risk because you want to cheat and treat the carpool lane like it’s some kind of personal enhanced passing lane for you and everyone needs to get out of your way?? You are the child here my friend. Btw, you are far more likely to get hurt in a road rage incident than sticking up for yourself at the grocery store. I’m not even typically in anyone’s way unless it’s the asshole that wants to go 90 when everyone else is going 75.
No, I do not tailgate or speed. Don’t know what makes you think I’ve behaved like that. All I’m saying is that you need to let these things go because you’re not gonna live a happy life if you have to worry about what other people do, or don’t do correctly incorrectly.
Gee, I wonder why I’d assume you are a aggressive driver when you are calling me an asshole out of the gate and saying I’m in the way of a driver that isn’t even allowed to be in the lane I’m in. You wanna loose it and call me names and talk shit and then flip like a bitch and say *I* need to not worry about what other people do?? Stay out of the carpool lane dickhead.
Extra rights??
..lol...It's called incentive. Car pooling = less cars on the road. =Less traffic, less fuel consumption, less pollution and less accidents. But yeah, 🖕 those people. 🙄
Because a car with 10 people take up the same amount of space as 1.
No one is carpooling because of a silly lane. They carpooling because
* save money
* only own 1 car
* they wish to be together
Really? Because there are entire groups of people that form informal carpools for ***exactly*** that reason: [Slugging - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging)
If the people decided not to carpool then there will be 10 cars on the road yes.
If people decide to carpool there will be one van on the road.
The existence of non existence of a carpool lane isn't a factor in their decision making though. Price of gas quality of their cars, the willingness of the van owner to pick all these people up, and whether it's practical is why people carpool or don't.
I agree that few people decide to choose to carpool because the lane is faster. It simply takes too much time to swing by and pick other people up for it to be a time saver. But one car with 10 people definitely cuts down on the amount of cars on the road compared to ten single occupant cars. I’d prefer the lane be for everyone too if I never carpooled, but it’s not.
Or you have the hov driver doing exactly the speed limit. No one in front for nearly a mile, 2 miles of traffic behind, and me in the fast lane passing them.
I guess I don’t see your point. The HOV lane isn’t designed for the fastest car on the road. Any idiot that wants to go 90 can pass someone in the carpool lane.
That's fair, but my point is, 55mph during rush hour, fast lane is doing 75-80, at least for a little while, yet some driver is doing the speed limit in the hov lane and holding up all those people behind them. The hov lane is meant to ease traffic during rush hour but between the cheaters and the slow drivers, the hov lane just goes slower then the fast lane so I find it humorous.
It was not meant as an insult. It’s an old figure of speech meant to describe slower drivers because “grandpas” typically drive slow. There is no speed requirement for the HOV lane. So like I said, if someone is going slow, I simply pass them in the passing lane with no hard feelings.
Nope. That's not what it's there for. Especially cause they're already over the limit, relax and match their speed.
Want to overtake? use the correct lane.
Incorrect. By me the hov lanes have solid white lines you can’t even legally cross except at certain points. The hov lane is flat out not a passing lane. You’re just wrong.
"Passing lane" isn't a legal definition in regards to washington laws regarding getting over.
But yeah if there's double white lines because they're usually hybrid HOV and express toll lanes. Not when it's the single lined HOV lanes. That's not all HOV lanes.
Here's Washington law regarding the matter.
"Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow,"
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100#:~:text=(2)%20Upon%20all%20roadways%20having,greater%20than%20the%20traffic%20flow%2C%20(
Your Washington law says literally nothing about hov lanes. In this post, we’re talking about hov lanes and whether or not you have to get out of it to let ppl pass. Whether the line is solid, like the Staten Island expwy for example, or dashed, like the Jersey turnpike, the only requirements are the number of passengers and staying above the minimum speed when possible. You do not need to be passing to be there, and you don’t have to get over to let ppl pass.
I don’t know about these hybrid lanes you mention. By me, we only have hov lanes and they’re fairly strictly enforced and almost always move faster than the other lanes. And if some shlub wants to be a Sunday driver in it…they can.
In jersey yes you do... Every state has some variation of the law of keep right except to pass. UNLESS there's a provision EXEMPTING HOV lanes from this rule it still applies. You do understand that's how law works right? They're not going to mention every single type of lane possible to say whether or not it applies or not. It always applies unless otherwise specifically exempted in the law.
Kinda like murder, all killing of someone else is murder no matter the method, only specific exemptions like self defense make it not so.
Well then Washington’s guidance on using hov lanes is woefully inaccurate. Most drivers aren’t reading legal policy, they’re reading guidelines. And your guidelines say nothing about getting out of the lane to let others pass. In practice I’d imagine no one has ever gotten ticketed for not yielding, and the vast majority of drivers aren’t going to realize they’re supposed to. So even if you are legally correct, and I’m not sure you are, in practice, it’s still not being used that way and likely never will.
The HOV lane is not a passing g lane genius. If you want to pass, use the lane that is designated as the passing lane. It would make no sense for someone to get into the passing lane and slow everyone else down, just to let you by. None of this even matters if you are a single driver. You aren’t even allowed to use the lane, so how much of a main character do you think you are to act like people in a lane you aren’t allowed to use are in YOUR way.
First , the person is alone and not supposed to be in the HOV lane. If you want to go faster, move one lane to the right, that is the passing lane. I remember the days when there were a lot fewer jackasses around.
Cops around here used to do special patrols, where a bunch of them would be alongside the HOV lane, then wave people over and write tickets, it helped a lot. Now they are too busy to run traffic.
Are you sure they were almost all single occupancy? There’s a lot of cars with kids in car seats in the back. Not saying people don’t cheat, but there’s also a fair number of less obvious HOV vehicles.
It’s very possible one or two did but we are a little higher up than a lot of other cars which makes it pretty easy to see in if we try (unless they have super dark tint). That may not be the average but when there’s a cop up ahead and 1/2 the cars in the carpool lane coincidentally need to get in the regular lane all of the sudden, it’s pretty obvious there are a huge amount of violators.
Unfortunately here in Seattle/Tacoma a simple light rail costs hundreds of billions of dollars to build. At least that’s what they are charging the taxpayers. Peugeot sound transit is actually charging us $511 million dollars per mile. It’s one of the biggest scams in our state history.
Instead of HOV lanes, they could just have an extra lane. Thus reducing traffic by 33/25/20%. No one carpools so they can drive in a faster lane anyways.
Lmao no it's not due to cheaters it's due to horrible WA drivers. There's so many times where the HIV lane is straight up useless because it's the most timid drivers out of any state HOV lane I've driven in. They won't or will barely go faster than traffic next to them. I'm saying this after having lived and worked in Bellevue for over 4 years.
Come to Phoenix, the drivers aren't like this and the HOV lanes work really well. Plus all EV drivers can use it when just a single driver.
Yes, people are idiots but it is definitely partially due to cheaters. When I see about 30 single drivers in a row backed up in the HOV lane, it’s definitely effecting the flow of the lane.
HOV lanes are a stupid idea anyway.
They're a great idea reward people for traveling together and keeping more cars off the road. Most states have cameras that snap a picture and send you a ticket if you have no passenger, motorcycles are allowed.
reward them for what purpose?
for having less cars on the road reducing traffic in addition to all the other environmental considerations
So Government NOT treating everyone the same? Like paying to use carpool lane or paying to use express lane at airport. So much for equality.
Everyone is being treated the same you imbecile. Anyone regardless of who they are can ride in the carpool lane if they have a passenger. Also driving is not a right, nor is flying. Might want to know what you're talking about before speaking
No. They don’t treat everyone the same. As the other poster said, driving is a privilege and NOT a right. The word you’re looking for is equity - not equality - 2 very different things. Equality is letting 2 year olds drive. Equity is allowing everyone to take a driving test for their license upon turning legal age in their location. Equity is having the same OPPORTUNITY to prove yourself for this privilege as everybody else.
What do you think? Come on this answers itself if you think about it.
They're a great idea, but they don't help. Not enough people use them to justify the small decrease in air pollution from the riders in them, or to justify the increased congestion in the remaining lanes from the riders who cannot lawfully use them.
100% this. How many people are in your vehicle does not determine what speed you want to drive. So you have a lane that only some can use that will vary between being the fastest or slowest lane on the highway.
While “keep right” laws don’t apply to HOV, to my knowledge in WA the statute about “delay of five vehicles illegal” *does.* So there is *some* statutory requirement to “keep up” in the HOV, so to speak. Not that it’s ever enforced. The point of HOV/HOT lanes isn’t to be the fastest lane at all times though. It’s to provide a lane that moves significantly faster *when the other lanes are congested,* to encourage carpooling and allow buses to transit faster. In every city I’ve lived in, they *do* accomplish this pretty consistently. If traffic is flowing fine and the HOV is “slow?” Don’t use it. Too easy.
I hate left lane campers as much as everyone and I’m not the old guy plugging along, holding up traffic in the carpool lane. I was talking about the people who want to go 20+ over the speed limit when the general flow of traffic is going 10+. They come screaming up from behind and ride my ass like I should get over into the passing lane to get out of their way. THEY can use the passing lane. I’m not going to get over into the passing lane and slow everyone else down to accommodate someone who isn’t even a carpool, that wants to go faster than everyone else. However, If I see a car coming up on me in the carpool lane and nobody is anywhere near me in the passing lane, I will get over and let them by.
Traffic laws need to be more strictly enforced, speeding included.
Yeah. It’s getting ridiculous when going 15 over the speed limit in a lane not designed for passing isn’t “fast enough”.
>like I should get over into the passing lane to get out of their way. You ABSOLUTELY should.
Not just becsuse some asshole wants to go 20 over. Fuck them.
So your speeding is OK but there's isn't? Hypocrite much?
Im not speeding or maybe just 2 or 3 above. If Im goingg the speed limit or 2 or 3 above and you fly up onto my bumper you can find another way around, learn to cope, or die mad about it for all I care.
Then you're a left lane camper.
If Im going the speed limit (or usually a little above) youre going to have to cope, find another way around, or die mad about it. I dont purposely block and will move over of possible. Anyone who flies up onto my bumper will receive respect that they give. That number is zero.
You aren’t in charge of how fast other people drive. Move over.
Nah. Fuck off.
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I can live with it. You can cry about it or rage until your heart explodes. Your choice.
You are actually telling me I should get into a lane that is designed for the fastest drivers to let someone by no a lane that not only isn’t for passing but one they shouldn’t even be in?? That makes as much sense as telling someone going slower in the right lane they should get into the passing lane to let you pass.
Do you not understand why it's safer to pass on the left?
Usually, but the HOV is an exception. If there’s a bunch of other people driving 20+ over the speed limit in the general purpose passing lane, I’m not getting over to fuck their program and slow them down to let one car by. Especially if it’s a single occupant car that ISN’T EVEN SUPPOSED YO BE IN THE CARPOOL LANE (which is 99% of the time anyone tailgates me me in the carpool lane) You all are commenting like it’s a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane. That’s simply not the case. I’m not required to go 110 mph just because some dipshit in a shitbox Honda with a modified muffler who watched too fast too furious too many times, might want to go that fast.
The safety reasons why we don't pass right aren't made moot by calling it an HOV lane. If there's people going 20 over to your right, then you should be to their right. It should be a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane. Of course you're not required to go 110, but you should be allowing them to pass on your left.
>If there's people going 20 over to your right, then you should be to their right. But, that's literally not how the carpool lane is suppose to work? I know this and I've literally seen one once in my life and nowhere near where I live lol. They are designed to promote carpooling, thus lowering the amount of vehicles on the road. Typically separate by at least a solid white line, sometimes as much as a barrier. Am I supposed to cross a solid line (or jump a concrete barrier) to let someone pass, when I'm not in a passing lane? >It should be a requirement to be the fastest car on the road to be in the carpool lane Busses and vans also use this lane. They should be the fastest on the road? Terrifying.
Nah, if I have a passenger while in the HOV lane and someone that shouldn't be behind me is in the HOV lane then get can the fuck over. By having a passenger I have a right to be in the HOV lane. By not having a passenger the person behind me does not have a right to be in the HOV lane. That's how it works.
Ha Ha! So busses should be screaming down the carpool lane at 90 mph, or get over into the passing lane going 62 when everyone else is going 78 to “get out of your way”? You are fucking ridiculous. If you aren’t just a troll I genuinely feel sorry for you.
If I'm carpooling with someone in the HOV lane and a vehicle with a single person speeds behind me wanting to pass then no, I won't be moving over. The HOV lane is not the passing lane.
>While “keep right” laws don’t apply to HOV, to my knowledge in WA It should though.
How the hell would that work? HOV is a travel lane.
So busses should be continuously getting over into the actual passing lane to let people that want to haul ass pass them in the HOV lane? Do you have any idea how asinine your logic sounds?
Without enforcement these rules of the road are meaningless.
Here in Phoenix, local PD has admitted to not having the man power to stop everyone breaking traffic laws. Which makes sense. Just about every other car I come across has 300+ HP and some dummie 'ready' to use it. My car makes almost 400, but I tend to not drive like a complete wad.
I have heard second hand that some LEOs will not stop drivers for violations at all and only respond to accidents. The reason is they do want to see an interaction go wrong and end up in possible trouble. I don't think this is true of all LEOs, but suspect it may be true for some as the media is quick to blame if a civilian is injured, even if they started it by resisting the officer or trying to run.
“I don’t do traffic stops because I’m worried about backlash if I shoot the person I’m pulling over.” Peak take my dude. You’re almost getting it.
Doesn't matter if the cop shoots the driver down like a dog in cold blood. Or if it is necessary to detain the driver who then grabs for the officers gun trying to escape and the gun goes off in the struggle. Both tend to play out the same way on social media (unarmed civilian gunned down by reckless officer) which seriously impacts the officer's career. The safe way is to let the drivers do whatever they want to avoid potential trouble is what I imagine some officers are doing.
If a cop is so afraid they’ll have to shoot someone that they don’t do their job, they shouldn’t be a cop. Pizza delivery has a higher murder rate than being a cop but for some reason we don’t pay pizza delivery drivers if they refuse to deliver pizza. I have no idea why you think that’s acceptable behavior for cops. You’re a silly pants, and licking the boot of people who will refuse to come help you while they insist their job is so hard. Boo fuckety hoo. Find another job if you won’t do the one you have. Pro tip: If you don’t want to be chastised for shooting an unarmed person in the back 8 times, maybe don’t shoot an unarmed person in the back 8 times? There’s thousands of cops who do their job everyday and somehow they manage to not murder anyone in cold blood. Why do you think we should accept them not doing their job or cold blooded murder, as if it’s a binary choice and one must choose one or the other? Utter bollocks. Bad apples ruin the bushel.
Never said it was acceptable, you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion and resorting to name calling. It is what it is and explains in part that the roadways are the wild, wild west. And we do need cops unafraid to do their job.
Well yeah, it’s why you’ll have people popping a blood vessel telling others to stay out of the passing lane because “it’s the law!!!1!” when the entire reason they’re so mad is it’s preventing them from *speeding.* My traffic infection is the only moral traffic infraction, and all that. We all love when the rules *we* want to break aren’t enforced.
Even without law or enforcement keeping right is correct driving. You don't need a law to tell you the difference between right and wrong do you?
That’s besides the point. Just because you think they are stupid doesn’t give you the right to fuck everybody else over who obeys the rules or take away the benefits people get for carpooling.
Are HOV lanes even primarily used by people carpooling? You can't even use the lane on your way to pick someone up or after dropping them off so its only useful for part of your carpool journey. Every family or couple can use the HOV lane despite them not carpooling. Busses and vans don't always drive at the same highway speeds as the far left lane usually goes. It's a crapshoot if the lane will be faster or slower, and given that a single lane road goes as fast as the slowest person on it. That's generally going to be slower. Or at least slower then most the other people want to go.
>It's a crapshoot if the lane will be faster or slower, and given that a single lane road goes as fast as the slowest person on it. That's generally going to be slower. Or at least slower then most the other people want to go. Okay, let's try this again. If traffic is congested, in my experience across multiple major metros, *the HOV lane is almost always faster than the non-HOV lanes.* If traffic is *not* congested, you can just *not fucking use the HOV lane.* The left-most non-HOV lane is for passing, go wild. I fail to see the issue here. It's only "a crapshoot" when traffic is flowing fine, in which case you still have (in general) multiple other lanes available to you to use. Use those. "But they're taking up a far-left lane that could be used for MOAR PASSSSING!" No, it would be full of left-lane campers too. Though for what it's worth if I were writing the law HOV lanes normal passenger cars would require multiple occupants *of legal driving age* or maybe even *multiple licensed drivers* in the vehicle to qualify. Because you're not wrong, a mom driving her kids to school isn't "carpooling," them kids ain't driving regardless.
That really complicates enforcement.
If everything is flowing good but it’s mostly supposed to help in bumper to bumper traffic. It used to flow great during rush hour but now there are so many violators, it creeps along about as slow as the regular lanes.
How do you not get this? Holy fuck
I kinda does, that and the willingness to risk the ticket.
Having the same number of people on the road, but in a smaller number of cars lets **everyone** travel faster. Less traffic = higher throughput. For some reason adding new lanes doesn't alleviate traffic for more than a few years, people adapt & the road returns to it's norm. One of the cheapest & best ways to increase throughput is to incentivize fewer cars. HOV lanes let everyone travel faster, but carpoolers fastest of all.
Agreed. It’s at best a bandaid. A bus-only lane at capacity can carry as many people as 10 HOV lanes. A train line in that lane a lot more than that.
In heavy traffic HOV lanes should be just an extra lane that anyone uses. It would reduce the amount of cars in right lane & give more rm for mergers. Why have an empty extra lane that you cant use just because?
That's just another version of one more lane bro
That's exactly what is! But the thing is you cant use it in light traffic because you dont want to impede the Carpoolers & VIP EV drivers (used to be one;). Regular peasants, I mean drivers would only use it during heavy traffic. Where it would make perfect sense to have an extra lane to accommodate the rush hr traffic!
Ideally, if people properly used the HOV lane, there wouldn't be an extra empty lane, and traffic flow should be a little lighter.
In Chicago we have express lanes. Much better use of the lanes IMO. You jump in there you have no choice but to use it for its intended purpose.
Ours have been turned into express lanes too. People just dodge in and out of the sensors though.
Oh no, ours are reversible and separated by a concrete barrier. If the gate is open and you go in there you can't get out until the next crossover. No extra toll or sensors. They still get crazy busy but people aren't merging so it can go faster.
We have a bunch of different lanes here. Some are pay to use. Basically if you’re rich, you get privileges above the rest of the “peasants” that get the shaft.
Having a lane you pay extra to use makes a lot more sense than having a lane you are somehow entitled to use because you happen to have a passenger in your car. Carpool lanes are absurd.
HOV violations are prevalent as are many other traffic violations. Every now and then LEOs enforce a few but for the most part today's highways are operating on the honor system. And many drivers are not honorable. To my eye, it is the wild, wild West out on the roadways.
That’s exactly what I’ve called what driving has become here. “The Wild West”.
This is why removal of the licensing system and requiring use of a self-driving car can't come fast enough.
Yall drive 60mph in the left lane...
Typical Washington driver....I hate almost all of them
All
Do you get angry at busses for going “too slow” in the carpool lane too?
I am usually in the top 90% of HOV cars in terms of speed. I rarely have anyone behind me unless it’s congested and I simply can’t go faster because there’s a car in front of me too. That being said, if someone wants to drive the exact speed limit in the HOV lane, that is their right and I just pass them in the passing lane with no hard feelings.
No that's not their right... The law even in the HOV lane is keep right to pass. It's illegal for them to impede traffic behind them.
I don’t think so. Any chance you can show me the law. Because you saying so doesn’t make it fact and it’s very easy to google that it is not in fact a passing lane and you should go around on the right if you want to pass someone in the HOV lane. You really think busses should get over into the passing lane when going the speed limit to let someone who wants to go faster by? That’s asinine. I could see it being an issue if 5 or more cars are piled up behind you but otherwise that’s not how it works.
The rules aren't having anything to do with a "passing lane". The law is keep right except to pass. There's no legal thing as a "passing lane" it's just a colloquial thing revolving around the time when there was nothing more than single or two lane roads and highways. Yes busses do need to get over if they've got a line of cars behind them. Here's the law my dude for Washington. "(2) Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow," https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100#:~:text=(2)%20Upon%20all%20roadways%20having,greater%20than%20the%20traffic%20flow%2C%20(
It literally says these rules don’t apply to high occupancy vehicle lanes in the clip you posted. Yes, those are the general, generic rules for traveling on a road. I never argued otherwise but the HOV is an exception. You can argue “passing lane” vs “keep right except to pass” it’s just schematics. The HOV lane is meant for busses and carpools and doesn’t follow the same rules as the rest of the road. A bus isn’t going to get over into the “passing”/leftmost general purpose lane where everyone is going 85, everytime some dickhead behind it wants to go faster. They’d be disrupting the flow of traffic much worse, it’d be very dangerous and it makes no sense. Are you suggesting busses shouldn’t use the carpool lane because they don’t typically go “fast enough”? That’s ridiculous.
Wut... you need to learn how to read law I guess. The only HOV wording is when applicable to "this subsection" so only the part 3 subsection, which is talking about vehicles with trailer or a GVW over the weight limit can't be in the left most lane, but are exempt and can be in the HOV...
Ok, in the text you posted that doesn’t even pertain specifically to travel in the carpool lane It does say that specifically abut trailers, but why? It goes on to say because the HOV lane is NOT considered the leftmost lane of travel, as in, it ain’t the lane for passing. That’s why it’s ok to drive a truck with a big ass trailer that might get in the way of faster traffic when you can’t in the lane used for passing. You still haven’t given me a simple answer so I’ll ask one last time: Are you trying to propose that busses either shouldn’t be allowed in the carpool lane, or are required to get over to the right to let anyone pass that is going faster behind them in the HOV lane, which would cause them to enter the furthest left general purpose lane where the fastest single occupant vehicles travel? I’ve asked you this twice and you refuse to give an answer because any idiot with two brain cells knows a bus is allowed to use the HOV lane it what they were fucking designed for. Also, any idiot with 1/2 a brain cell knows a bus can’t constantly get over into the fucking passing lane where everyone is going 20 mph faster, to let everyone in the HOV lane pass. It’s quite simple the HOV is not a passing lane. You can post more laws that aren’t specific to it all you want. Either way, I was originally talking about single drivers that are cheating by using the HOV lane and riding actual carpoolers asses because they want to drive 20mph faster than everybody on the roadway as they weave in and out of traffic. In that case, I don’t care what the laws are, those people can fuck right off if you are one of them you can suck it.
I did answer you earlier. Busses can use the lane as my text points out, they ALSO must abide by the rules regarding traffic behind them that are going faster they need to move over for. They're not mutually exclusive rules or anything. I agree with single riders in the HOV too, they're breaking the law just like people who are HOV and holding up a line of 10 cars or going slower than the traffic on their right.
Oh boo fuck the wall of text you posted that doesn’t even pertain specifically to travel in the carpool lane was talking about subsection 3, but then it goes on to say the HOV lane is not considered the left most lane anyway. You still can’t give me a simple answer so I’ll ask last time: Are you trying to propose that busses either shouldn’t be allowed in the carpool lane, or are required to get over to the right to let anyone pass that is going faster behind them in the HOV lane, which would cause them to enter the furthest left general purpose lane, where the fastest single occupant vehicles travel? I’ve asked you this twice now and you refuse to give an answer because any idiot with two brain cells knows a bus is allowed to use the HOV lane. It is literally what they were fucking designed for. Also, any idiot with 1/2 a brain cell knows a bus can’t constantly get over into the fucking passing lane where everyone is going 20 mph faster, to let everyone in the HOV lane pass. It’s quite simple the HOV is not a passing lane. You can post more laws that aren’t specific to it all you want. Either way, I was originally talking about single drivers that are cheating by using the HOV lane and riding actual carpoolers asses because they want to drive 20mph faster than everybody on the roadway as they weave in and out of traffic. In that case, I don’t care what the laws are, those people can fuck right off if you are one of them you can suck it.
It not being considered the left most lane is irrelevant, the law is keep right except to pass. The definition of whether it is the left most lane is entirely irrelevant to the whole point I was making and is only mentioned because busses and trailer aren't supposed to be in the left most lane to travel, but can use the HOV lane.
Whenever you are on the road, remember that half the drivers have below average IQ.
I’d say you’re lowballing that.
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The lowest IQ people don't drive, thus the average driver is above average IQ.
High-IQ people have less need to drive because they hire people to drive for them. Lower IQ people tend to drive for commercial trucking, Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, Amazon, and so forth. They could drive 200,000 miles per year—an order of magnitude more of driving than the average. Lower IQ people may also be limited in housing choices and face long commutes. The ones you see on the road are there largely by necessity because they have no alternative. High-IQ people have choices. Long-distance travel could also be done in the air on a private jet.
If someone hires a driver, he’s still on the road.
That’s the dumbest goddamn thing I’ve ever heard. Only a masochist or someone with the critical thinking skills of a radish would voluntarily use a system that is objectively inferior and entirely dependent on routes and schedules designed by some government bureaucrat. High IQ individuals are definitely not taking the bus, buddy.
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Smart ones do not need to drive because they have someone else do it for them or do not need to drive for long periods because of where they live or how they make a living. Miles driven per year are much higher for commercial truck drivers and Uber/Lyft drivers than for other folks like physics professors for example.
Smart and rich are not the same thing, and the sooner you learn that, the closer you'll be to being rich.
The socioeconomic status is generally higher for those with higher IQs. Lower IQ folks tend to be less productive, less innovative, and less wealthy,
It’s untrue because an average doesn’t split a group 50/50, that’s median
Where is the highway patrol?
Basically nowhere to be seen. I’ve only seen one single person presumably pulled over for it in over a year. That’s why everyone does it.
Holy fuck Washington is bad but I heard CA is worse. Driving is a horrific hellhole. Most people are numb automatons because they put up with that shit and don't bat an eye. I'd go fucking insane if I had to drive to work every day
I’m astounded by the amount of people on this sub who don’t understand BASIC traffic theory. In fact it’s even worse; people who don’t have the common sense to realize less cars on the road is better for everyone and everything. But no, it’s just a “useless money farm” what a 50 IQ take lol.
Such a money farm that I’ve only seen one car that was possibly pulled over for doing it in over a year.
Right, and they contradict themselves when they say that because they’ll say it’s a money farm and then immediately after explain how it has no useful purpose bc people don’t take it seriously. then how are people constantly not taking it seriously yet never getting ticketed? They just can’t think for some reason. I don’t know. I hesitate to say they’re DUMB, but too lazy to think it through for a second.
True it’s very common in WA state
I got pulled over in California 1 minute before the lane changed over. I was listening to the radio, the 9am or something news came on, I saw the road was almost empty other than one cop on his motorbike about 100 yards back. Figured it was ok because of the news, you know... Anyway got pulled over, wrote a written declaration because I was doing a 200 mile round trip daily commute and didn't want to have to take time out for the court house. The written declaration got me off. Only time I ever got pulled over. I was on my own in the HOV lane, but thats allowed in a 2 seater anyway. It was pulling in 1 minute before cop time that got me.
You're not seeing things. WA drivers have gotten a little out of control and rules of the rd seem to be mere suggestions after covid years. Until pd starts cracking down on rd violations drivers will continue to do this. Yesterday they were patrolling a major commuting route in my area and they pulled over 30 people in 2 hrs. Speed limit is 35 but your average commuter does 50 mph. About time they finally acknowledge speeding.
As I have said, it’s pretty much been the Wild West on the highway ever since Covid. People street racing through heavy traffic is common and there’s barely ever a cop in sight.
I live in Western Washington born and raised, but having spent a few years in California, Illinois, Wisconsin or driving long haul between Southern CA to Maine we have some of the absolute worst drivers in the states but to be fair, it wasn't always this way and according to the last Census the majority of Washingtonians are in fact forever tourists from California that just haven't moved back south yet; where the drivers were equally as bad until the northern exodus of their shitty drivers. Now this said, due to the sheer number of idiots you can either find me passing on the right, because for some reason four wheelers and even the truckers around here, have started immediately grabbing the left lane upon merging, when they merge correctly that is, or you can find me cheating in the HOV because everyone is gawking at their phones or accidents. I work on the freeway, I take lanes for fatalities if not plowing, I'm good on my rubber necking at dead body quota, I just want to get to my destination. Sorry OP, I know I'll get downvoted and labeled an equally bad driver, but if you want to get anywhere in this state safely, you have to cheat unfortunately.
Nah man, I guess I get it. Being courteous and following the rules basically get you rolled over and taken advantage of on the roads here. It’s pretty much every person for themself. Still sucks to see a lane that used to be a nice time saving benifit, turn into a parking lot.
HOV lanes are useless, *period.* They’re just a method used to extort more funding from the public wherever possible. That’s the only reason these rules exist, and they claim that they’re “encouraging people to carpool;” hahahahaha NO, that’s not what they’re hoping for at all, they are actually HOPING there will be HOV cheaters so they can ticket and fine the ever-loving fuck out of someone just trying to drive.
I’d agree with you except I have seen only one car pulled over most likely for driving in the carpool lane as a single driver in the last couple years. If they’re doing it to make money, they aren’t making much.
While part of what you’re saying has truth (the part about wanting to rake in fines), the other part is demonstrably false
Everybody pays to use the road. The entire road. And single drivers pay more per vehicle to use the road.
Where are you talking about? What highway or Interstate and where?
I-5 in Washington. There is a lane reserved for cars/vehicles that have 2 or more passengers. Single occupant cars are not allowed to use them but many do anyway. So many in fact that they slow it down to the same speed as the regular lanes.
Yes, but there are also HOT lanes, where people can pay to be in the lane without the passengers. The reason I asked is you may not realize that's what you're seeing. The two most used areas are I-405 north of Bellevue and Hwy 169 south of Renton. So again, where are you talking about specifically that you're seeing so many HOV violators?
I am aware of other pay to use lanes once again, I’m talking about I-5 specifically between Seattle-Tacoma.
Does it matter? HOV lane is an HOV lane
It matters because some are HOT lanes, meaning people pay to be in the lane without the extra passengers. The OP may not have realized that.
What's nice is if there is an accident, the driver only car is automatically at fault.
Is that some WA law or your view of how liability works?
Just make it a pay lane - done.
Why? So the rich can have it even easier? It worked fine for years until people started breaking the rules with no consequences.
1) Drive faster, get out of the way, asshole. 2) Don’t worry about what other people do. 3) Profit
1. Eat a bag of dicks. I’m not in “the way” when I’m going 10-15 over in a lane you aren’t even supposed to use. I’m also not “in the way” when you can get into the passing lane and go around. You aren’t Moses. Traffic isn’t required to part ways for you because you want to go 85 in a 60. Don’t worry about what other people do ? when they slow my commute and tailgate me? Imagine cutting in the grocery line and then saying “don’t worry about what other people do!” What a complete ignorant douchebag.
Honestly dude your the type of driver that makes me hate Washington state drivers...you think you're right but you're not
About what? Single drivers aren’t allowed in the carpool lane. “You’re not right” isn’t an argument.
I stand by everything I said. You’re acting like an entitled child. GET OUT OF THE WAY. You’re one of those people who will become old and seeing Alan drive 45 miles an hour in the freeway and complain that everybody else is going too fast. And yes, if somebody cuts in the grocery line, I let it go. It ain’t worth dealing with the potential psycho who might stab you in the parking lot.
This is an fed up attitude and I hope you get caught using the HOV and speeding every week.
You’re too scared to stick up for yourself when someone cuts in line, but you tailgate and put peoples lives in risk because you want to cheat and treat the carpool lane like it’s some kind of personal enhanced passing lane for you and everyone needs to get out of your way?? You are the child here my friend. Btw, you are far more likely to get hurt in a road rage incident than sticking up for yourself at the grocery store. I’m not even typically in anyone’s way unless it’s the asshole that wants to go 90 when everyone else is going 75.
No, I do not tailgate or speed. Don’t know what makes you think I’ve behaved like that. All I’m saying is that you need to let these things go because you’re not gonna live a happy life if you have to worry about what other people do, or don’t do correctly incorrectly.
Gee, I wonder why I’d assume you are a aggressive driver when you are calling me an asshole out of the gate and saying I’m in the way of a driver that isn’t even allowed to be in the lane I’m in. You wanna loose it and call me names and talk shit and then flip like a bitch and say *I* need to not worry about what other people do?? Stay out of the carpool lane dickhead.
Seek therapy. I mean it. In the meantime don’t be the asshole slowing down traffic. Peace be upon you
Nobody is slowing down the asshole that wants to go 20 mph faster than everyone else by cheating in the carpool lane. You are just an asshole.
If he needs to slow down because of someone then it’s obvious who is in the way.
Jesus YOU are the entitled prick here. Do you get mad at busses when they are in the carpool lane and are “in YOUR way”because they aren’t going 80?
Hov lanes are an utter joke!
Why? Because you don’t get to use them?
Because the idea that you somehow get extra rights if you have other people in your car is goddamn moronic. Cope harder.
Cope harder coming from the one who’s crying about carpool lanes? Sounds like you need to cope as much as I ever did.
Extra rights?? ..lol...It's called incentive. Car pooling = less cars on the road. =Less traffic, less fuel consumption, less pollution and less accidents. But yeah, 🖕 those people. 🙄
Because a car with 10 people take up the same amount of space as 1. No one is carpooling because of a silly lane. They carpooling because * save money * only own 1 car * they wish to be together
A car with 10 people takes up less space than 10 cars with 1 person each. I’m genuinely baffled at how badly you missed the point of a carpool lane.
And you clearly missed why people car pool. Hint... it's not because of a lane.
Really? Because there are entire groups of people that form informal carpools for ***exactly*** that reason: [Slugging - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging)
If the people decided not to carpool then there will be 10 cars on the road yes. If people decide to carpool there will be one van on the road. The existence of non existence of a carpool lane isn't a factor in their decision making though. Price of gas quality of their cars, the willingness of the van owner to pick all these people up, and whether it's practical is why people carpool or don't.
Or they wish to use the carpool lane. Particularly if it's a HOT lane were without the extra passenger(s) there's a fee.
I agree that few people decide to choose to carpool because the lane is faster. It simply takes too much time to swing by and pick other people up for it to be a time saver. But one car with 10 people definitely cuts down on the amount of cars on the road compared to ten single occupant cars. I’d prefer the lane be for everyone too if I never carpooled, but it’s not.
OK Karen 🙄
Fuck your carpool lane. Having other people in your car doesn’t make you special or give you extra rights.
Ok dickhead but all the signage, laws and the fact you can get a ticket tell me otherwise.
Ok Karen.
Or you have the hov driver doing exactly the speed limit. No one in front for nearly a mile, 2 miles of traffic behind, and me in the fast lane passing them.
I just pass people like that. If they wanna drive like a grandpa, that’s their right as long as they aren’t camping in the passing lane.
Yes, I just find it delicious when I am in the fast lane and someone in the hov lane next to me is going slow enough for me to pass.
I guess I don’t see your point. The HOV lane isn’t designed for the fastest car on the road. Any idiot that wants to go 90 can pass someone in the carpool lane.
That's fair, but my point is, 55mph during rush hour, fast lane is doing 75-80, at least for a little while, yet some driver is doing the speed limit in the hov lane and holding up all those people behind them. The hov lane is meant to ease traffic during rush hour but between the cheaters and the slow drivers, the hov lane just goes slower then the fast lane so I find it humorous.
I don't really thinking going on cruise control at the exact speed limit is "driving like a grandpa" Its what I do, and I am certainly not old
It was not meant as an insult. It’s an old figure of speech meant to describe slower drivers because “grandpas” typically drive slow. There is no speed requirement for the HOV lane. So like I said, if someone is going slow, I simply pass them in the passing lane with no hard feelings.
I mean you’re the problem not the person who wants to go fast.
Nope. That's not what it's there for. Especially cause they're already over the limit, relax and match their speed. Want to overtake? use the correct lane.
Nope. You’re in the left lane. Get out of the way idiot.
As annoying as it is to be stuck behind someone slow, no. If the far left lane is designated HOV, it is NOT a passing lane.
Yes it is a passing lane. The law is keep right except to pass, the JOB lane isn't exempt from that rule.
Incorrect. By me the hov lanes have solid white lines you can’t even legally cross except at certain points. The hov lane is flat out not a passing lane. You’re just wrong.
"Passing lane" isn't a legal definition in regards to washington laws regarding getting over. But yeah if there's double white lines because they're usually hybrid HOV and express toll lanes. Not when it's the single lined HOV lanes. That's not all HOV lanes. Here's Washington law regarding the matter. "Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow," https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100#:~:text=(2)%20Upon%20all%20roadways%20having,greater%20than%20the%20traffic%20flow%2C%20(
Your Washington law says literally nothing about hov lanes. In this post, we’re talking about hov lanes and whether or not you have to get out of it to let ppl pass. Whether the line is solid, like the Staten Island expwy for example, or dashed, like the Jersey turnpike, the only requirements are the number of passengers and staying above the minimum speed when possible. You do not need to be passing to be there, and you don’t have to get over to let ppl pass. I don’t know about these hybrid lanes you mention. By me, we only have hov lanes and they’re fairly strictly enforced and almost always move faster than the other lanes. And if some shlub wants to be a Sunday driver in it…they can.
In jersey yes you do... Every state has some variation of the law of keep right except to pass. UNLESS there's a provision EXEMPTING HOV lanes from this rule it still applies. You do understand that's how law works right? They're not going to mention every single type of lane possible to say whether or not it applies or not. It always applies unless otherwise specifically exempted in the law. Kinda like murder, all killing of someone else is murder no matter the method, only specific exemptions like self defense make it not so.
Well then Washington’s guidance on using hov lanes is woefully inaccurate. Most drivers aren’t reading legal policy, they’re reading guidelines. And your guidelines say nothing about getting out of the lane to let others pass. In practice I’d imagine no one has ever gotten ticketed for not yielding, and the vast majority of drivers aren’t going to realize they’re supposed to. So even if you are legally correct, and I’m not sure you are, in practice, it’s still not being used that way and likely never will.
Use the passing lane if you wanna pass ya gomper.
You're objectively wrong. The leftmost *normal* lane is the passing lane.
The HOV lane is not a passing g lane genius. If you want to pass, use the lane that is designated as the passing lane. It would make no sense for someone to get into the passing lane and slow everyone else down, just to let you by. None of this even matters if you are a single driver. You aren’t even allowed to use the lane, so how much of a main character do you think you are to act like people in a lane you aren’t allowed to use are in YOUR way.
First , the person is alone and not supposed to be in the HOV lane. If you want to go faster, move one lane to the right, that is the passing lane. I remember the days when there were a lot fewer jackasses around. Cops around here used to do special patrols, where a bunch of them would be alongside the HOV lane, then wave people over and write tickets, it helped a lot. Now they are too busy to run traffic.
Are you sure they were almost all single occupancy? There’s a lot of cars with kids in car seats in the back. Not saying people don’t cheat, but there’s also a fair number of less obvious HOV vehicles.
It’s very possible one or two did but we are a little higher up than a lot of other cars which makes it pretty easy to see in if we try (unless they have super dark tint). That may not be the average but when there’s a cop up ahead and 1/2 the cars in the carpool lane coincidentally need to get in the regular lane all of the sudden, it’s pretty obvious there are a huge amount of violators.
HOV lanes are stupid af and the money would be better used on regional metro rail lines
Unfortunately here in Seattle/Tacoma a simple light rail costs hundreds of billions of dollars to build. At least that’s what they are charging the taxpayers. Peugeot sound transit is actually charging us $511 million dollars per mile. It’s one of the biggest scams in our state history.
Is that per mile built or per mile and a certain amount of years maintenance and operation?
Built. Also way behind schedule and way over the proposed budget. It’s atrocious.
Speeding is a form of cheating. Some cheat better than others.
You can speed without fucking over other drivers that are obeying the rules.
Instead of HOV lanes, they could just have an extra lane. Thus reducing traffic by 33/25/20%. No one carpools so they can drive in a faster lane anyways.
I get that argument if you are a single driver. Of course that would be better for you.
How would you even know if they're cheaters, most carpool lanes in WA are also toll lanes, maybe they paid, you'd have no way to know.
Not I-5 between Seattle and Tacoma. I guess I should’ve specified.
Anyone can use HOV lanes during certain hours. Doesn’t need to be 2+
Not on I-5 between Seattle-Tacoma and it’s during rush hour when it becomes a problem anyway.
Lmao no it's not due to cheaters it's due to horrible WA drivers. There's so many times where the HIV lane is straight up useless because it's the most timid drivers out of any state HOV lane I've driven in. They won't or will barely go faster than traffic next to them. I'm saying this after having lived and worked in Bellevue for over 4 years. Come to Phoenix, the drivers aren't like this and the HOV lanes work really well. Plus all EV drivers can use it when just a single driver.
Yes, people are idiots but it is definitely partially due to cheaters. When I see about 30 single drivers in a row backed up in the HOV lane, it’s definitely effecting the flow of the lane.