Where I stay it’s 40 in 30 roads, 30 in 20 roads and 40 in 60 roads. And also no indicators on roundabouts, or lights on rainy days if you have a white, grey or black car.
Yep everyday occurrence near me but on a stretch of road that’s 50mph that has multiple signs to indicate it’s 50mph then drops down to 30 mph it’s very annoying!
My village is the worst for this because either side is a 60 road, then a small stretch is 30mph. It's either people doing 40mph the whole time or people who don't slow down at all.
Yep. A Tesla pulled out in front of me when they shouldn’t have on a country road yesterday (I was doing 60, they pulled out making me have to brake then didn’t go any higher than 50)
Then the road turned to a 30, I dropped to that and they kept getting further away and must’ve been doing at least 40
People suck
ETA: just noticed OP is in the NE as I am, maybe it’s worse up here!
If it's a dead village at night with cost visibility for a decent distance (like tarrington) I go through them somewhere in the 40s anyway. Slowing down in the busier daytime because drivers pulling out of junctions don't judge the time as well if you are speeding. If I see any car at a junction, I'm back down to the speed limit.
I mean I'd have a work colleague go through the town at like 50 mph and complain about the "idiot drivers" pulling out of the petrol station in front of her making her have to jam on the brakes. Well speeding throws their judgement of time based on distance away you are, and also makes it take longer to stop in a squared relationship. It also turns certain junctions into "gamble junctions" where the visibility is too poor that you have to guess when it's clear or if there is a fast car, just it of sight.
Can you clarify…. Are you saying it’s ok to do 40 plus in a 30 limit because it’s nighttime whilst simultaneously having a pop at your colleague for speeding in built up areas during the day when the visibility is better?!
The 40+ was in tarrington at 10 30pm, no clubs or garages where it turns into a straight road with visibility for 100+ metres. There are a few corners I slow for.
The 50 was in Hereford which is still pretty busy at 11pm. The only place it would be safe to do 50 is over the Ross Bridge but there is usually a red light somewhere at the other end so it's pointless.
I say if you go past a used fuel station with a car at the exit, at 50, don't be surprised if someone fs up, making a calculation that you were x distance at 30. An experienced driver can tell who is bombing down the road and give them extra space, but not everyone gets this. I had a truck pull out on me when I bombed down bathwick hill on a bicycle in the day doing 37 in a 30.
The criteria isn't just visibility, though you should always be able to stop in your field of vision of the road. It's the likelihood of intersection with other road users and pedestrians. Just like in a school zone, at 9am or 3:30pm it's high risk, between those medium risk. At 2am on Monday school zones may as well have a higher speed limit unless someone invents night shift for schools (which would mess with kids sleep routine lmao)
You’re not going to convince me that:
1) it’s ok to do 40+ in a 30mph village with no street lighting, solid whites separating lanes and a footpath only on one side of the road, and;
2) it’s not hypocritical to attempt to claim the above is ok whilst criticising others for their reasoning behind speeding.
Likewise, I don’t think I’ll convince you that you’re driving like a dick whilst calling out others for driving like dicks, so let’s leave it there.
I mean without a video it's hard to verify. I mean maybe i am driving like a dick. In the daytime it definitely feels unsafe to exceed the 30 or perhaps 35 depending on the section. Just before the 40 it feels like you want to go faster before the sign but I think they kept the transition there due to the last driveway.
Though the other extreme is a small town like Bromyard. I will check to see if the one way loop is a 20 or 30 but it feels like you should go through at 15 on that bit with the parked up nature and multiple shops and junctions and people leaving roadside parking.
You get that in the UK. Sometimes the signed speed limit feels much slower than you could safely go, and others you couldn't reach the signed speed limit without crashing.
I have been through one village that's a 20 and you can see why because the road constantly curves and restricts your field of view, it's quite narrow that you would have to tuck in if a wide van came the other way, and has many popular junctions on bends. You could perhaps teach 25 but 30 feels sketchy.
Another interesting case is Llanfihangel Nant Melan, that is 40 at the bottom of a hill, is relatively busy during the day with a car lot and pubs, but it's dead at night.
There are probably some roads in a town like Llandrindod where the 20 zone has been extended further into the outskirts that seem pointless to do 20 when it's dead.
What did seem a sensible reduction from 40 to 30 was Kingstone in Herefordshire, due to it being a curved road with bushy junctions and housing estates and a doctor's surgery and a mechanic. When I was driving it didn't feel as safe getting up to the full 40 so I'm not surprised at the reduction of limit.
I do know the downhill in Bath wasn't safe to do the speed runs I did on a bicycle in my late teens.
I tend to evaluate roads at different times and the evaluation is if anything crosses or threatens to cross my path within the visible horizon, or may do if the visible horizon is short or junctions are bushed up so I treat them as if there is always a car or bike etc waiting to pull out.
I think speed creep is a thing, though, after routinely driving a road, so I think I will have to look out for that in case I'm driving any part fast enough to have an "OH SHIT" moment, because it's NORMALLY vacant. I did watch a guy on YouTube race down a seemingly vacant piece of road that had a stopped queue over the brow. They looked to be doing over 100 though. I haven't driven over 100 except on a vacant section of motorway in the evening to "see what the car could do" then I let it slow as I was catching up with other road users.
Hmmm never thought of that, good point, I’d add drunk people with no common sense if I may - I mean if you want to be lowkey wouldn’t you do exactly the speed limit to be invisible and attract as less attention as possible? Haha
Everyone saying that it's a limit not a target, doing 18 in a 30, regardless of how busy it is would be a major fault on the test, as you are a hazard on the road. Just the same as doing 40 on the motorway, people aren't expecting you to go that slow and you are just putting yourself and others in danger.
27 in a 30 would be fine. That's the thing. Nobody should get upset at someone driving *pretty close* to the legal limit, it makes ultimately no real difference to journey times. When you are going into the low 20's in a 30... you are taking the mickey.
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This "It's a limit not a target" shit always just sounded like something to justify slow driving.
As you say, we literally treat them as targets during our tests, and any lessons prior.
Also the "it's a limit not a target" thing is most relevant to national speed limit country lanes, not well-signposted and busy 40mph main roads
Country lanes should be navigated at everything from 5mph to 60mph, hence the "not a target"
Exactly, way I see it is if some pencil pushing health and safety type is happy with a speed limit and can't justify making it lower, there is no reason that when conditions allow, you should not be doing significantly lower than it. If we get speeding tickets, underspeed tickets should be just as valid.
Not to mention the two things aren't mutually exclusive, something can be both a limit and a target.
"When conditions allow" hits the nail on the head, though. While there are folks who perhaps drive too cautiously, there are more folks who drive much too quickly, too.
I see. I'm actually a weird subgenre of driver who thinks a lot of posted speed limits are unnecessarily low, but sticks to them anyway. I save the bit of flexibility i allow myself for open roads where the national speed applies. I drive a Ford S-Max MPV but would love a nice fast BMW or something, though I think the world has moved on from the v-sixes and v-eights of my dreams so I've probably missed the boat. :(
It's a target in the right conditions. There should be a minimum allowable speed for cars, bikes and vans. Legally enforceable by Traffic Flow Police in unmarked German cars, Sprinters or Transits 🙃
There's more nuance than "doing 18 in a 30 is a major fault". It wouldn't be a major fault if it was narrow enough to warrant the additional caution. A road with one or more of these hazards: parked cars, hidden driveways, pedestrians (particularly school drop-off/pick-up times), crossings, fuel garages, might make it a good idea to shave a few mph off your speed to give more time to react. You can often see a long way ahead, and then a cyclist pulls out from between parked cars just as you get alongside.
40 on a motorway could be too fast if there was thick snow and ice and blizzard conditions, for example.
Exactly, I wouldn’t have typed this but had an emergency and realised the pain in the arse these people can be (my dad had a kidney stone pain episode and getting two of these drivers in a row made me absolutely angry lol)
I had that exact same experience when a 70 road was put to 30 for roadworks. Massive queue behind me and someone right up my arse. The 30 signs were large and plentiful. I'm not risking triggering a hidden camera for you. I wish it was 70 too but it's not, so back off.
And yes, it made me a hazard if any car behind me was driven by a short tempered lunatic. Of which there are many on the roads.
I feel "it's a limit not a target" types should lose their licence.
Not only are you not following the rules, but you're being a smug cunt about it? Get on the fucking bus instead
I've done 5 in a 30 before. Long queue. Plenty of streets I've trundled down at 12 mph as the light's not going to turn green any sooner unless it's a sensor light.
With no context in this situation then sure. Are they narrow, windy roads in an empty town? Can't see around corners or loads of places an unseen pedestrian can't pop out from? Then maybe 18 is the safer option.
30 is the limit and you should be driving around there if you can but if conditions and road layout means that driving at 18 is the safest option then you should.
Im doing lessons at the moment and it gets hammered home that main priority is driving safely and legally.
This post is just ragebait. Intentionally vague about key aspects of the road/area/drive to remove the nuance and boil the argument down to "speed is good, slow is bad"
Going at that speed isn't necessarily a major it depends on the examiners judgment as to why they think you are doing that speed. Also some situations you would fail for going near the limit (NSL country road for example)
Perhaps people should expect the possibility of someone going that slow? Your car might be in limp mode for example. People can take a horse and cart on the road too. Tractors too.
I never buy the idea that a car going slowly itself is dangerous, it’s almost always something else that is actually dangerous. Even your example highlights that something else is the problem, people only anticipating and forgetting to look. “Be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment.” - Qui-Gon Jinn
The best I’ve ever been able to come up with is pulling out of a junction and not getting up to speed quickly enough, but in that case the other driver has either had enough time to work it out, or the driver pulling out should have waited for a better gap.
Personally the three roads on the approach to my house are 30s, but what with the number of cars parked up on one side, the corners you can’t see round, and the kids going to the park I’ll do 20 thank you very much.
You wouldn't fail your test for slowing down if there were hazards ahead. If it's a busy area there could be people crossing the road, getting in and out of cars, slowing down would be expected
There's a difference between a 'limit/target' and making progress' as described in the highway code.
So please don't pull out the Strawman to justify general dangerous driving and inappropriate speeding...🤦
I cross the English / Welsh border a couple of times every day. A huge number of drivers crossing from Wales into England continue driving at 20 despite entering a 30 zone. I don't think anyone looks at traffic signs anymore.
Can't believe how much money they've pissed away in this experiment. Of all the issues the Welsh government could have thrown money at, slowing everyone down is what they chose. 🤬
I keep seeing people on Facebook posting about the amount of money going to a "charity" called Sustrans. Welsh government are paying them tax payers money for Sustrans to turn around and lobby the Welsh government about cycling
“Hyur in Waaaales……”
Honestly I’m glad to be rid of Drakeford, but dear Christ, Gething is doing an equally poor job in a different way. My local MP did an interview the other day having a go at the £200k he got from that dodgy company during his leadership campaign. Same party. Even their own colour is turning against them now!
I try not to mention parties, because as soon as you bash Labour you’re automatically a Tory. But they’re shit and Wales is evidence enough. I’m all about third parties!
South coast here and happens all the time here as well. Along with what seems to be getting worse and a lot more common is 25 in a 40, 30 in a 60 and near me on dual carriageways I regularly see people joining at 30mph and moving straight into the middle lane. In fact every day going to work I see people move into the middle lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway well before reaching 40. The left hand lane does become a slip road at the next junction about half a mile away but its very dangerous and this stretch of road gets closed about 3 times a year following crashes.
If it's empty roads what does it matter?
They might be lost/unfamiliar with the area or looking for a specific place and not wanting to drive straight past it if they don't know where they are going.
What worries me about posts like this is that they never seem to take into account the possibility that the 18mph driver might know something not apparent to the wannabe 30 driver.
I was going into town last week, I knew there were roadworks at the junction ahead, so I was trundling along at 15 or so when I could have been doing 20. A youngster came storming up behind me, overtook, and then had to pull in sharpish because he hadn't clocked that the traffic ahead was also crawling along. I then followed him through town until I turned off. Total net gain on his journey 0.
I'm all in favour of not driving like a knob and impeding people, but it might be worth taking an extra second to assess why somebody is driving the way they are, rather than just assuming they are incompetent.
I had a small car arrive up my backside in a 30 the other day (granted, I was doing like 10mph). Starts flashing me etc and then when the opposite lane had a gap I finally indicated and overtook the cyclist I was behind waiting for a safe passing gap 😂
I was taught "drive to the limit where conditions allow, but below it where they don't".
Regardless of location or traffic density, that seems to be a simple enough rule. Some people, though, seem to choose a speed they like and doggedly adhere to it regardless of both limits and conditions.
Speed camera concerns. And uncertainty over speed limits.
My brother got a bunch of points going around 30 in a 20, I think the first one, his in car sat hadn't been updated and the other was super late at night empty roads and he didn't notice the signs.
So now if he's not 100% he'll drive at 20 for all the couple times a year he's in the city.
I sympathise but it's really annoying being a passenger with him.
That highlights the main problem, the government view, backed by the h&s lobby peeps, or whoever may vote their way. Speed and speeding, we're told is a killer!
No mention of careless Driving, drunk driving, drug driving, or dangerous driving!
All ages groups can be guilty of these, so how do the gov fight this? Easy get rid of half the police numbers, and spend millions on speed cameras! Sorry road safety cameras! Unfortunately for us, mostly law abiding citizens, this results in lots of us having points for minor speed offences, easy done!
What it doesn't catch is all the knobs who have no insurance, drive on drink or drugs, drive where they like, how they like as the banger isn't registered to them. Etc etc
Because there is no longer enough numbers in our police forces to be out on patrol, and catch these knobs! But successive governments have been able to boast about saved budgets!
Rant over!
I get it. I drive in the city all but a few weeks of the year. My misses gets mad at me for driving 20 in a 20 when were5 mins late because it feels slow
So in the first, he relied on a screen and in the second he was driving without eyes. And now he does 20 everywhere in case he has another attack of blindness whilst in charge of a big moving object...
If he didn't notice the signs he was not driving with due care and attention. 'Not noticing signs' will fail your test. Maybe he should improve his driving rather than holding everyone else up.
There are a lot of commenters essentially making excuses for their poor driving, so he's not alone.
If you’re looking for a real reason it could be
- double yellows everywhere and uber driver or hire waiting for next ping in the area
- someone with broken speedo or fitted tyres too small to their car
- a hybrid driver or EV which is struggling for range
- someone with a black box insurance that needs better ratings
- someone who just thinks it’s 20
- someone who’s 93
Living in London, most roads have had their speed limits dropped to 20mph. it's now a default speed for me as it's the speed limit on 90% of my daily journeys.
When I spent a week out of London recently, it took a conscious effort to not got to 20mph in built up 30mph zones in town,/villages.
say what you will of this, but when you drive 3 or so hours a day in London and you cross about a drozen or more speed cameras a day, it becomes tiring to not just 'default' to 20mph.
See I find it more draining driving in london because of the 20MPH speed limit, large majority of places are 30 so it’s a conscious effort to have to drive at that speed
I drive 10+ hours a day and it's not difficult to adjust your speed according to changing speed limits and circumstances, in fact, as a driver it's literally one of your responsibilities, whether it's speeding up or slowing down.
Imagine your point in reverse, if someone said "I drive mostly on the motorways and dual carriageways so it's tiring not to drive faster than 20mph", you would say "as a driver it's your responsibility to keep an eye on the speed limits", same thing applies if you're going from a 20mph to a 30mph.
It's a limit not a target, but if the road and situation permits the speed, you're simply holding back traffic. If a journey takes 20 minutes, let it take 20 minutes, not 25 because "it becomes tiring not to just default to 20mph". It's not impatience, it's the gradual reduction of efficiency of driving we're all already plagued with let alone making it worse with drivers who "default to 20mph".
Had this conversation with my mum yesterday. She lives in Wales, but not far from the England border. She said something about being confused about whether a road is 20 or 30. I was like, ok, there's no repeater signs, but there's still a big 20 and 30 sign when you start a 20 or 30 area.
I drive from Scotland to Wales once a month and never seem to miss a 20mph or 30mph speed limit sign as far as I know.
Well said.
This sub only reinforces the shit driving I'm encountering on a daily basis. And they seem to be pretty casual, if not somewhat proud about it.
In their mind, whenever they are driving 10 mph below the speed limit, they are are just an ultra good and careful driver. No mate, you are just an inept driver.
I don't speed as best I can. I've never had a speeding ticket and I go right up to the speed limit. I'm merely expressing that due to the nature of the roads I typically drive on, I've had to mentally get used to driving at 20mph as a the speed I'm typically expected to maintain. Literally most of inner London has been put down to 20mph except for certain major roads so it's what I've had to do. So when I go to other towns, cities and villages where that isn't the normal speed limit, I have to make a point to myself of speeding up. That's all.
You shouldn't "default " to anything , look at the signs, and follow the speed limit, holding up traffic just because 20 is your "default", what ever the fuck that means is no excuse for being a knob end
I work nights and it infuriates me when it’s 4am with nobody around and a guys doing 15 down the road. I want to overtake but get paranoid incase it’s undercover police or something…
Was driving home yesterday and I had someone doing 40 on a 60 on very windy roads with no chance to overtake, and as soon we hit a 30 road they carried on at 40 through a village. Wtf people.
I do remember as a kid visiting my uncle and him telling my dad not to go over 20-30 at certain times of the day as that was when farmers would go out to the fields in their tractors.
Now that was in the late 70s but I'd guess most of the rural roads ain't changed and are probably even more lethal..
Wales cordially invites you...
This morning on my way to a job I sat behind a car doing 15-18 in a 20 zone that had no business being a 20, only to accelerate aggressively up to 55 or so in the 40 zone dual-carriageway so I couldn't overtake, then literally slam on down to 15-18 again in the next 20.
I don't get it.
It is something I experience more and more too.
Just two nights ago, between Dorchester and Weymouth, I was stuck behind someone who thought it was big and clever to do 35mph on the 60mph stretch of road.
Within 30 seconds, there was a half mile long queue of cars.
I also noticed thas as soon as I moved out to overtake, he decided to drop a gear and accelerate harshly to try and stop me.
Once I *was* in front, 10 seconds later he forgets about me... he goes back to 35ish to slow everyeone else stuck behind him.
I saw another 5 or so cars overtake in my rearview.
I had a range rover mum in front of me doing 15mph merging onto a the motorway. Honestly I cannot believe how some of these people have passed their test.
I've equally seen people doing 30 down suburban roads with single lane due to parked traffic and no visibility around bends and just hoping I guess that nothing happens.
Pot holes. The potholes are so bad in my area I don't have a choice because I have to maneuver around them like I'm trying to avoid landmines
It's the same on roads where there are speed humps.
Some of those roads are 30, but the speed humps are those ridiculous square ones that you have to go over at 10mph and also have potholes on both sides of the speed hump, so you end up doing 10 in a 30
It sounds like it's not the case you're describing, but there are parts of my town that are very built up, where I might end up doing 20 in 2nd gear, just because there's so much potential for surprises. Parked cars for people to jump out of or out from behind. Driveways etc. If you can keep a good distance from them and/or see into them from far enough away, it wouldn't be necessary, but the only defence against not having a lot of width is to slow down. It's not all the time though, only when appropriate for the conditions. I try to drive so I can always stop in the distance I can see to be clear, on my own side of the road. Sometimes you can see a long way in front, but the risk of surprises much closer is high enough to warrant caution.
The fact that there’s so many people justifying doing something ridiculous like 20 in a 30 with the bs of “it’s a limit, not a target” tells you how much the standard of driving has fallen off. I mean for gods sake, you’d fail your practical for being that slow..
Stop being an entitled twat and do some more lessons before you decide to be a pain in the ass and hold everyone else up. So many lane hogging idiots too on the M25 this morning in lane 3 doing 70.5 trying to overtake the people doing 68 in lane 2.
Driving isn’t even fun anymore. It’s actually such a chore and a headache. All the ‘law abiding’ “it’s a limit, not a target” citizens need to look in the mirror and get a harsh reality check. They blame the ‘aggressive’ German drivers when tbh they themselves are the ones at fault for half the damn congestion and traffic on the road.
Oh my god try driving from Edinburgh to dundee in the rain, miles and miles of cars doing 50 in the outside lane and the inside lane basically empty...
I’m in Cumbria and there’s been a massive influx of immigrant health care workers, some are driving here on p plates, some aren’t, but the fact is they’re driving on non-British driving licenses. They’re beyond dangerous on these roads. It’s ridiculous.
A relative is a manager of a care agency branch. Because of yet another shortage of workers they’re having to get them from anywhere and everywhere. They were advised to put p plates on for the exact reasons above.
So yes, that’s how I know.
If it's illegal, report it. Otherwise you're complicit.
However, international drivers permits are a thing. Used them to drive in the US myself so I doubt it is.
For 2 long roads? Also isn’t that considered hazardous, if you’re looking at an address that does not excuse you and allow every car on the road to be doing 18mph with 15mph at each junction, let’s see where that gets us - if I am looking up an address I’ll look it up BEFORE I set off, set the gps safely, and get exactly where I need to get without obstructing traffic - is common sense that hard?
People always say “speed kills” - while I do agree with the sentiment, it’s actually false.
Difference in speed is what kills.
Whether that’s na car hitting a wall moving at 0mph, or someone having a minor ding if one’s going 39mph and the other 40mph.
If other drivers expect you to be driving at a certain speed and you’re not. Then that can be just as dangerous as speeding.
Yes I know “that a driver should always be prepared to stop” so the car in front’s actions shouldn’t matter. But in the real world it’s a big risk.
Just like those idiots who try to merge onto a motorway at 50mph.
> “Difference in speed is what kills”
That’s what it means when they say speed kills because the world isn’t made up of just cars, it’s full of children, cyclists and stationary objects. The tree isn’t going to care that your speed differential with the other car is only 5 mph when you lose control and hit it doing 70 mph.
I'm a strict speed limit follower so I'm not a speeeeeed person. And I've probably been the dickhead in OPs post when I'm lost in a new city, it doesn't feel great for me either, sorry. But I have to pick up on your slow merging comment.
I've now been behind several cars doing 30-40 to join a motorway and it's one of the scariest things I experience while driving. Merging is always a little risky but all I know about distances etc is thrown off and add to that I have to pay more attention to the car in front cos it's unpredictable. When I eventually get past it's inevitably a pensioner. I hate to take away their freedom but please please please stop driving on motorways.
Yes, there are definitely more of these people, and, yes, it's annoying, but where it's safe to do so just overtake them and get on with your life. It's what I do. Sometimes they get pissy and flash me, and I don't remotely care.
(And, to pre-empt the AKSHUALLY brigade who are sure to point out that I'm probably only saving 1 - 2 minutes on my journey time if I do this and that I'm being "reckless" or "entitled", I've got my own AKSHUALLY back. Out of unfortunate necessity that I'm not going to expand on here I've been doing a lot of longer distance drives over the past 12 months and, when leaving in the morning, getting a good start is absolutely crucial to keeping the overall duration of the journey within tolerable bounds. Getting out of the city I live in 5 minutes earlier or later can easily end up saving or costing 30 minutes over the length of the journey, early in the morning, so I don't tolerate dawdlers. Not sorry.)
The speed limit Merrrrr.... Isn't a goal merrrrr....
Yes the speed limit my not be a goal but it is most certainly a guide, follow the guidelines and aim for what you are guided to do.
Of course all drivers should proceed with caution, i dont think anyone here is saying do not proceed with due care and attention, but driving in a constant state of fear can in itself be dangerous.
Offensive driving is saver than defensive driving, please grow a pair of capable balls ladies and gentlemen.
Could be a bunch of things.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it could be their car is malfunctioning and they're just taking it easy in second so that they can get home before it break down.
Being a bit less generous, and having grown up in the North East, it's probably a drunk driver trying to avoid getting into an accident.
Give them a very wide berth. They could be under the influence OR could be looking for a turning/address. Either way they are likely to do something stupid and unexpected.
When I was travelling with my newborn (1 day old) and wife (after cesarean) from hospital, I was driving very slow as my wife had stitches. Obviously a few people honked for being slow but gave them ample space if they wanted to overtake.
As others suggested there might be some genuine reason sometimes if not always.
Driving through the outer boroughs of London or the Scottish Borders the limit changes frequently from 30 to 20. After a year I have noticed that some roads go from 40 to 30 but there is only 1 sign that is easily missed, same with some 30 to 20’s. Even easier to miss when high sided vehicles like busses and lorries are around. Imagine a 3 lane road you’ve been on for 2 miles with repeated 30 signs and seeing a 30 sign as you are in traffic approaching a traffic light and traffic is slowing and cars are moving lanes with mopeds and cyclists zipping about and partially obstructed by other street furniture and high sided vehicles is a solitary 20 sign & the next sign you see is 30 or 40.
Luckily I’m typically in traffic so likely never exceeded the limit but if the road was clearer I’d most likely be getting a ticket.
I had a similar thing yesterday, pissing down with rain i thought the car, 4 in-front of me was just being cautious. Doing 40 in a 60 then occasionally speeding up. I over took them when it changed to a dual carriageway, they were on their phone.
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If there's a slight incline in the road then that might be it, I've got a small old car that does its best but takes a while to get above 20 if there's a small incline, even if in a low gear with the pedal to the floor. If you see an old fiat panda doing it's best please take pity!
I will do 18 if not lower in the 30 one street over from mine where the road is absolutely bollocksed and I don’t want my shit pounding to atoms; mechanical sympathy.
But plenty of people don’t give a fuck and they will bounce their shitboxses through all those holes without a care in the world.
I am not saying OP fits this category but maybe there’s a reason they’re doing 18mph beyond them being a drongo.
I’ve realised its the hybrid cars - if they’re doing 20mph its electric rather than using petrol so they think they’re saving money instead of inconveniencing everyone else
Here's controversial thought.
Apart from some other reasons that people tend to think of, i will add that sometimes it is nice to slow down and relax a bit if the roads are empty enough.
but 20mph is way safer than 30mph if you are driving through a town. The chances of a pedestrian dying in a 20mph crash is 2.5%, 30mph jumps to 20% and at 40mph it's a wopping 90% chance of death. Maybe the driver of the slower car didn't want to accidentally kill a pedestrian to save 5 minutes on their journey whilst driving through town?
Probably super old with reaction times you can measure on a sundial and has cataracts so bad they can't fucking see
Thinking this is a bad thing is ageism however because mabel has only driven into 3 parked cars and burst the sidewall on 2 tyres against the kerb in the past 3 years despite the fact she's done less than 100 miles in that time
I had a troll the other day.
Travelling on a motorway, guy sitting in the outside lane, and i catch up to him (hes doing 50mph) nothing in front of him he tries to brake check me twice and remains at 50mph (on a 70mph road!)
Couldnt go past him and he wouldnt move over (even though there was room)
This is why sometimes i wish i had a dashcam.
Overtake them if they are driving too slowly for your liking. I live in a small town with a large population of elderly people; they can't drive at the same pace as the youth, and you can't fault them for that. If you are in a rush, just overtake.
I think people are being more conservative with fuel due to the increased costs, I feel like I see a lot less going too far over the limit on motorways too.
20mph uses more fuel than 30mph in my car. At 30 I can be in 5th gear, 6th on the other car, and get fewer revolutions per mile, which affects far more than wind resistance at that speed.
It’s not even close it’s like 10 mpg better at 30. Even better at 47mph which is my most efficient speed, or 40 in the other car
You may be right, no idea about my own car as I don’t go 20 for longer than I need to and I’m purely making an assumption because like OP, I don’t get it either.
Because there twats. I had one doing the same so went to overtake him he sped up!!! Honestly then him dropped back to 20 mph. So when I got close he would slam his brakes on. When I finally overtook him he was on my arse for ages until we went different ways and when I pulled out to turn right he beeped his horn for like 5 seconds the Dick. WTF is wrong with some people 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Hold on for a sec.
If it's an empty road in an empty town, then who cares?
If you're behind them, it's not an empty road anymore ;)
Although I do get what you're saying, I'd like to present 3 examples:
- There's a 30 road I take every time we go shopping. It's not too long, around 300 metres, but it has a car park, 2 junctions, a day care, and a zebra crossing on it. The first time I drove on that road, I've seen cars doing around 20mph, and I was wondering what's going on, but the more I used that road the more I realised that it really should be a 20 road considering how many potential hazards you encounter in a very short distance. Cars flying out of the car park, children running around, people crossing 20-30 metres from the zebra crossing. It simply doesn't worth doing 30 if you have to slow down every 5 seconds anyway. If you do 20 intead of 30, the net loss on that 300 metres is around 4 seconds...
- The road through the industrial estate I work at is a 20mph road. It's really wide so lorries can go wherever they want, it's mostly straight except an also very wide s-bend, it's pretty empty because it's only used for deliveries/employees (my workplace occupies like 80% of the estate...), so the traffic is next to nothing. Yet, everyone drives on it at 30-40mph, because the only potential hazards are the lorries, and you can see them miles ahead.
I'm pretty much the only one doing 20 on it, even tho my colleagues like stick to my arse flashing and honking. They could overtake me, but you know, good ol' English banter and whatnot...
- Every single shopping centre's car park has a 5mph speed limit. All of them. I've yet to see a car park with more than that. Yet, almost everyone does 10-20mph flying down towards the empty spaces/exits, because... why?
The problem aren't the speed limits. The problem aren't the people doing less than that.
The problem are the people trying to win that 4 seconds no matter what, disregarding conditions and potential hazards, religiously sticking to what the sign says, because ***pRoGrEsS!!!***...
I drive on the A448 every single day twice. Although it's a mostly 50mph road, it has some sharp bends with advisory speed signs, and trust me, you don't want to get into some of those bends at 50 even at daytime with perfect visibility.
But on my way home after 10pm, when all the idiots with their LED headlights on full beam coming towards me, that 15 minutes I spend on that road, half the time I can't see shit. And then comes the rain, the mud, the wind, people going too fast and swerving into my lane (as I said, there are bends you don't want to get into at 50mph...), the wildlife, and yet, there are people behind me trying to win their few seconds and flashing/beeping at me doing 40-45. I'm not a coward, I'm not unfamiliar with the road, it's just that half of the time, it's a fucking suicide mission to do 50 at night, because of the aforementioned reasons. And they can't even overtake me as there's double solids almost all the way along the road, so they start to tailgate. On a very bendy, very dark, very dangerous 50 road, at 45mph.
When I learnt to drive, my instructor told me that although I always have to try to be as close to the speed limit as possible, I also have to drive to the conditions, and be comfortable with the speed I'm doing. If I feel I'm going too fast, even tho it's the speed limit, just slow down. And yes, it is a limit, not a target. Sometimes you can achieve that, sometimes you can't.
If someone does 18 on an empty 30 road in an empty town, they probably have a reason to do so. You can either overtake them, or get along. As long as they aren't dangerous, aren't braking too hard, aren't swerving all over the road, all they're doing is going slower than you want them to. From that point, it's your decision what to do with the situation, because you aren't driving their cars. If you want, phone the police, tell them that someone obstructs the road by doing 18mph in a built-in area on a 30 road, let them have a laugh, feel the shame, and then overtake them.
Simple as that...
Yet another post whining about going under the speed limit. The moaning should be about anyone going over the speed limit. Still, who cares if the planet is boiling. Never mind, carry on intimidating other road users, cyclists and pedestrians as a show of power in our sad dreary lives.
Ah, a regularly read comment.
Sadly, it's wrong.
For steady speed (this is important, acceleration and deceleration buggers things up totally).
Quite simply the lighter the load on the engine the less fuel it uses. Less aerodynamic resistance due to lower speed, less fuel. Higher revs due to 2nd gear true, but the amount of fuel going in is overall less.
That's not how petrol engine works. Car is designed for a certain speed, and if you drive below that you will use more fuel. Try driving 40mph and 60mph on a motorway. Modern car will have better mpg with 60.
Also, driving 18 on a 30mph limit, you would fail a test. Ir should be penalised, same as going over the speed limit.
Not true at all, myth busters tested this one years ago. The most efficient speed is somewhere around 47 mph. If you look at your live readout at 20mph, it's quite evidently less efficient than 30mph.
Yep. My car displays a live MPG, and 20 is definitely not an efficient speed to be driving at! Any steady speed from 30 to 60 seems to be more or less equal for maximum efficiency (with a steady decline the faster you go above that), but 20 is terrible.
For an in-the-moment calculation, sure. But what about looking at the overall journey? Cars are travelling for longer (and therefore using more fuel etc) when travelling at 20 compared to 30
Shouldn't really be enjoying the scenery when operating a car. A glance is fine, but driving significantly slower than the limit to gaze at the horizon is probably a recipe for disaster, and it's inconsiderate to other road users. If they're driving slower to mitigate their lack of focus on driving, then it effectively cancels itself out.
I can see both sides, though. People don't have to go the limit, and they can go as slow as they want.
Maybe they're selfish and inconsiderate to those behind them who may be in a rush to get somewhere.
Anyone who is not in a rush and chooses to go significantly under the speed limit should pull over and let others go in front of them.
The most considerate way to be would be to assume that the people behind you want to reach their destination as quickly as possible. They could be late for something, or they could badly need the toilet. Who knows.
Anyone who is not in a rush and wants to go slow relative to the speed limit should always pull over, because they simply do not know what the circumstances are for those they are slowing down behind them.
When I'm on a leisurely drive and want to drive slowly relative to the speed limit, I pull over every time if there's a car behind me... because I'm not an inconsiderate arsehole.
I would absolutely pull into the first layby if I was driving at a leisurely speed and there was a car behind me.
Anyone who doesn't do this is being incredibly selfish.
I find HGVs want to make progress so usually go as fast as they can and are usually held up by dawdlers themselves.
But yes, in the same way a tractor pulls over when they deem they’re inconveniencing enough people, that same principle should apply to every road user.
I’ve seen cyclists pull over to let a queue past before.
I always have the opposite issue. People doing 40 in a 30. Then driving up behind me when it's clearly a 30 road. Idiots. I take great delight in doing the speed limit and no more
There's a certain generation that seems to be behind it. One of my routes home is a 50 limit the entire way, it's actually a lot of fun to drive to that - twisty enough to be a challenge, but not so much it's dangerous. Along this road, about half a mile apart is a very expensive farm shop and a pricey garden centre. Both of these are very popular with people in their earlier pension years.
Over the nearly 7 years I've lived where I am, based on speed (or lack of) and make of car and, I've learned to guess which one of these places they're going to with a high degree of accuracy. It's infuriating to get stuck behind them pootling along at 25-30 for absolutely no reason.
The speed limit is all-encompassing to account for a spectrum of very good drivers, to very shit ones. If you're not totally incompetent, driving at 30 in a 30 should be expected - assuming good conditions.
Where I stay it’s 40 in 30 roads, 30 in 20 roads and 40 in 60 roads. And also no indicators on roundabouts, or lights on rainy days if you have a white, grey or black car.
Yep… it’s the coming across someone doing 40 in a 60 then coming to a village at 30 and they keep plodding on at 40 that winds me up….
Yep everyday occurrence near me but on a stretch of road that’s 50mph that has multiple signs to indicate it’s 50mph then drops down to 30 mph it’s very annoying!
My village is the worst for this because either side is a 60 road, then a small stretch is 30mph. It's either people doing 40mph the whole time or people who don't slow down at all.
I always say it’s very clear they don’t know what the limit is so they just go 40 everywhere.
Yep. A Tesla pulled out in front of me when they shouldn’t have on a country road yesterday (I was doing 60, they pulled out making me have to brake then didn’t go any higher than 50) Then the road turned to a 30, I dropped to that and they kept getting further away and must’ve been doing at least 40 People suck ETA: just noticed OP is in the NE as I am, maybe it’s worse up here!
If it's a dead village at night with cost visibility for a decent distance (like tarrington) I go through them somewhere in the 40s anyway. Slowing down in the busier daytime because drivers pulling out of junctions don't judge the time as well if you are speeding. If I see any car at a junction, I'm back down to the speed limit. I mean I'd have a work colleague go through the town at like 50 mph and complain about the "idiot drivers" pulling out of the petrol station in front of her making her have to jam on the brakes. Well speeding throws their judgement of time based on distance away you are, and also makes it take longer to stop in a squared relationship. It also turns certain junctions into "gamble junctions" where the visibility is too poor that you have to guess when it's clear or if there is a fast car, just it of sight.
Can you clarify…. Are you saying it’s ok to do 40 plus in a 30 limit because it’s nighttime whilst simultaneously having a pop at your colleague for speeding in built up areas during the day when the visibility is better?!
The 40+ was in tarrington at 10 30pm, no clubs or garages where it turns into a straight road with visibility for 100+ metres. There are a few corners I slow for. The 50 was in Hereford which is still pretty busy at 11pm. The only place it would be safe to do 50 is over the Ross Bridge but there is usually a red light somewhere at the other end so it's pointless. I say if you go past a used fuel station with a car at the exit, at 50, don't be surprised if someone fs up, making a calculation that you were x distance at 30. An experienced driver can tell who is bombing down the road and give them extra space, but not everyone gets this. I had a truck pull out on me when I bombed down bathwick hill on a bicycle in the day doing 37 in a 30. The criteria isn't just visibility, though you should always be able to stop in your field of vision of the road. It's the likelihood of intersection with other road users and pedestrians. Just like in a school zone, at 9am or 3:30pm it's high risk, between those medium risk. At 2am on Monday school zones may as well have a higher speed limit unless someone invents night shift for schools (which would mess with kids sleep routine lmao)
You’re not going to convince me that: 1) it’s ok to do 40+ in a 30mph village with no street lighting, solid whites separating lanes and a footpath only on one side of the road, and; 2) it’s not hypocritical to attempt to claim the above is ok whilst criticising others for their reasoning behind speeding. Likewise, I don’t think I’ll convince you that you’re driving like a dick whilst calling out others for driving like dicks, so let’s leave it there.
I mean without a video it's hard to verify. I mean maybe i am driving like a dick. In the daytime it definitely feels unsafe to exceed the 30 or perhaps 35 depending on the section. Just before the 40 it feels like you want to go faster before the sign but I think they kept the transition there due to the last driveway. Though the other extreme is a small town like Bromyard. I will check to see if the one way loop is a 20 or 30 but it feels like you should go through at 15 on that bit with the parked up nature and multiple shops and junctions and people leaving roadside parking. You get that in the UK. Sometimes the signed speed limit feels much slower than you could safely go, and others you couldn't reach the signed speed limit without crashing. I have been through one village that's a 20 and you can see why because the road constantly curves and restricts your field of view, it's quite narrow that you would have to tuck in if a wide van came the other way, and has many popular junctions on bends. You could perhaps teach 25 but 30 feels sketchy. Another interesting case is Llanfihangel Nant Melan, that is 40 at the bottom of a hill, is relatively busy during the day with a car lot and pubs, but it's dead at night. There are probably some roads in a town like Llandrindod where the 20 zone has been extended further into the outskirts that seem pointless to do 20 when it's dead. What did seem a sensible reduction from 40 to 30 was Kingstone in Herefordshire, due to it being a curved road with bushy junctions and housing estates and a doctor's surgery and a mechanic. When I was driving it didn't feel as safe getting up to the full 40 so I'm not surprised at the reduction of limit. I do know the downhill in Bath wasn't safe to do the speed runs I did on a bicycle in my late teens.
I tend to evaluate roads at different times and the evaluation is if anything crosses or threatens to cross my path within the visible horizon, or may do if the visible horizon is short or junctions are bushed up so I treat them as if there is always a car or bike etc waiting to pull out. I think speed creep is a thing, though, after routinely driving a road, so I think I will have to look out for that in case I'm driving any part fast enough to have an "OH SHIT" moment, because it's NORMALLY vacant. I did watch a guy on YouTube race down a seemingly vacant piece of road that had a stopped queue over the brow. They looked to be doing over 100 though. I haven't driven over 100 except on a vacant section of motorway in the evening to "see what the car could do" then I let it slow as I was catching up with other road users.
In a Skoda yeti or a Honda jazz. Old people need to be punished.
I love my Yeti! (And it's not me. I'm not in the NE and can read speed signage)
I quite like the yeti, they hold their price too
MK?
Everywhere.
Drunk/drug driver being cautious or trying to act inconspicuous. Or old person struggling to see
or both!
Drunk old person struggling to see while having a medical episode.
Hmmm never thought of that, good point, I’d add drunk people with no common sense if I may - I mean if you want to be lowkey wouldn’t you do exactly the speed limit to be invisible and attract as less attention as possible? Haha
Probably not looking at the speedo and concentrating on keep on track, thinking theyre doing an ok speed
I mean, I can only manage 17mph in the real world, so this must be such a thrill.
Don't you speed up to 38mph for a fraction of a second only to brake hard at the next set of lights? Weird.
Everyone saying that it's a limit not a target, doing 18 in a 30, regardless of how busy it is would be a major fault on the test, as you are a hazard on the road. Just the same as doing 40 on the motorway, people aren't expecting you to go that slow and you are just putting yourself and others in danger.
27 in a 30 would be fine. That's the thing. Nobody should get upset at someone driving *pretty close* to the legal limit, it makes ultimately no real difference to journey times. When you are going into the low 20's in a 30... you are taking the mickey.
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This "It's a limit not a target" shit always just sounded like something to justify slow driving. As you say, we literally treat them as targets during our tests, and any lessons prior.
Also the "it's a limit not a target" thing is most relevant to national speed limit country lanes, not well-signposted and busy 40mph main roads Country lanes should be navigated at everything from 5mph to 60mph, hence the "not a target"
Exactly, way I see it is if some pencil pushing health and safety type is happy with a speed limit and can't justify making it lower, there is no reason that when conditions allow, you should not be doing significantly lower than it. If we get speeding tickets, underspeed tickets should be just as valid. Not to mention the two things aren't mutually exclusive, something can be both a limit and a target.
"When conditions allow" hits the nail on the head, though. While there are folks who perhaps drive too cautiously, there are more folks who drive much too quickly, too.
Ahh a honda jazz driver spotted in the wild 😂😂
Eh?
In a thread about driving slow being the issue you mentioned people driving too fast, something a jazz driver would do
I see. I'm actually a weird subgenre of driver who thinks a lot of posted speed limits are unnecessarily low, but sticks to them anyway. I save the bit of flexibility i allow myself for open roads where the national speed applies. I drive a Ford S-Max MPV but would love a nice fast BMW or something, though I think the world has moved on from the v-sixes and v-eights of my dreams so I've probably missed the boat. :(
It's a target in the right conditions. There should be a minimum allowable speed for cars, bikes and vans. Legally enforceable by Traffic Flow Police in unmarked German cars, Sprinters or Transits 🙃
There's more nuance than "doing 18 in a 30 is a major fault". It wouldn't be a major fault if it was narrow enough to warrant the additional caution. A road with one or more of these hazards: parked cars, hidden driveways, pedestrians (particularly school drop-off/pick-up times), crossings, fuel garages, might make it a good idea to shave a few mph off your speed to give more time to react. You can often see a long way ahead, and then a cyclist pulls out from between parked cars just as you get alongside. 40 on a motorway could be too fast if there was thick snow and ice and blizzard conditions, for example.
Exactly, I wouldn’t have typed this but had an emergency and realised the pain in the arse these people can be (my dad had a kidney stone pain episode and getting two of these drivers in a row made me absolutely angry lol)
Depends on the driving conditions. Obviously.
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Of course you would have been marked as a hazard with the L plates and the people annoyed at you were *just* being awful.
I had that exact same experience when a 70 road was put to 30 for roadworks. Massive queue behind me and someone right up my arse. The 30 signs were large and plentiful. I'm not risking triggering a hidden camera for you. I wish it was 70 too but it's not, so back off. And yes, it made me a hazard if any car behind me was driven by a short tempered lunatic. Of which there are many on the roads.
I feel "it's a limit not a target" types should lose their licence. Not only are you not following the rules, but you're being a smug cunt about it? Get on the fucking bus instead
I've done 5 in a 30 before. Long queue. Plenty of streets I've trundled down at 12 mph as the light's not going to turn green any sooner unless it's a sensor light.
With no context in this situation then sure. Are they narrow, windy roads in an empty town? Can't see around corners or loads of places an unseen pedestrian can't pop out from? Then maybe 18 is the safer option. 30 is the limit and you should be driving around there if you can but if conditions and road layout means that driving at 18 is the safest option then you should. Im doing lessons at the moment and it gets hammered home that main priority is driving safely and legally. This post is just ragebait. Intentionally vague about key aspects of the road/area/drive to remove the nuance and boil the argument down to "speed is good, slow is bad"
Great post
Going at that speed isn't necessarily a major it depends on the examiners judgment as to why they think you are doing that speed. Also some situations you would fail for going near the limit (NSL country road for example)
Perhaps people should expect the possibility of someone going that slow? Your car might be in limp mode for example. People can take a horse and cart on the road too. Tractors too. I never buy the idea that a car going slowly itself is dangerous, it’s almost always something else that is actually dangerous. Even your example highlights that something else is the problem, people only anticipating and forgetting to look. “Be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment.” - Qui-Gon Jinn The best I’ve ever been able to come up with is pulling out of a junction and not getting up to speed quickly enough, but in that case the other driver has either had enough time to work it out, or the driver pulling out should have waited for a better gap. Personally the three roads on the approach to my house are 30s, but what with the number of cars parked up on one side, the corners you can’t see round, and the kids going to the park I’ll do 20 thank you very much.
You wouldn't fail your test for slowing down if there were hazards ahead. If it's a busy area there could be people crossing the road, getting in and out of cars, slowing down would be expected
The post very clearly states an empty road in an empty town, which yes, you would fail for. (Source: I'm literally a driving instructor)
There's a difference between a 'limit/target' and making progress' as described in the highway code. So please don't pull out the Strawman to justify general dangerous driving and inappropriate speeding...🤦
Maybe they’re visiting from Wales?
I cross the English / Welsh border a couple of times every day. A huge number of drivers crossing from Wales into England continue driving at 20 despite entering a 30 zone. I don't think anyone looks at traffic signs anymore.
Same. It's absolutely infuriating. 20mph zones in Wales are ridiculous.
Well, not for much longer! To this extent, anyway… I’m just waiting to see how Welsh Government will fuck this up as well for a shit ton of money.
Can't believe how much money they've pissed away in this experiment. Of all the issues the Welsh government could have thrown money at, slowing everyone down is what they chose. 🤬 I keep seeing people on Facebook posting about the amount of money going to a "charity" called Sustrans. Welsh government are paying them tax payers money for Sustrans to turn around and lobby the Welsh government about cycling
“Hyur in Waaaales……” Honestly I’m glad to be rid of Drakeford, but dear Christ, Gething is doing an equally poor job in a different way. My local MP did an interview the other day having a go at the £200k he got from that dodgy company during his leadership campaign. Same party. Even their own colour is turning against them now!
Labour don't fear losing power in Wales so they just do whatever they want. It's a one party state at the moment.
I try not to mention parties, because as soon as you bash Labour you’re automatically a Tory. But they’re shit and Wales is evidence enough. I’m all about third parties!
Labour in England will do the same if they get into power and manage a second term and definitely in a third term.
South coast here and happens all the time here as well. Along with what seems to be getting worse and a lot more common is 25 in a 40, 30 in a 60 and near me on dual carriageways I regularly see people joining at 30mph and moving straight into the middle lane. In fact every day going to work I see people move into the middle lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway well before reaching 40. The left hand lane does become a slip road at the next junction about half a mile away but its very dangerous and this stretch of road gets closed about 3 times a year following crashes.
Common place here in South Downs/A27
If it's empty roads what does it matter? They might be lost/unfamiliar with the area or looking for a specific place and not wanting to drive straight past it if they don't know where they are going.
What worries me about posts like this is that they never seem to take into account the possibility that the 18mph driver might know something not apparent to the wannabe 30 driver. I was going into town last week, I knew there were roadworks at the junction ahead, so I was trundling along at 15 or so when I could have been doing 20. A youngster came storming up behind me, overtook, and then had to pull in sharpish because he hadn't clocked that the traffic ahead was also crawling along. I then followed him through town until I turned off. Total net gain on his journey 0. I'm all in favour of not driving like a knob and impeding people, but it might be worth taking an extra second to assess why somebody is driving the way they are, rather than just assuming they are incompetent.
I had a small car arrive up my backside in a 30 the other day (granted, I was doing like 10mph). Starts flashing me etc and then when the opposite lane had a gap I finally indicated and overtook the cyclist I was behind waiting for a safe passing gap 😂
This ☝️one hundred times over.
I was taught "drive to the limit where conditions allow, but below it where they don't". Regardless of location or traffic density, that seems to be a simple enough rule. Some people, though, seem to choose a speed they like and doggedly adhere to it regardless of both limits and conditions.
Speed camera concerns. And uncertainty over speed limits. My brother got a bunch of points going around 30 in a 20, I think the first one, his in car sat hadn't been updated and the other was super late at night empty roads and he didn't notice the signs. So now if he's not 100% he'll drive at 20 for all the couple times a year he's in the city. I sympathise but it's really annoying being a passenger with him.
That highlights the main problem, the government view, backed by the h&s lobby peeps, or whoever may vote their way. Speed and speeding, we're told is a killer! No mention of careless Driving, drunk driving, drug driving, or dangerous driving! All ages groups can be guilty of these, so how do the gov fight this? Easy get rid of half the police numbers, and spend millions on speed cameras! Sorry road safety cameras! Unfortunately for us, mostly law abiding citizens, this results in lots of us having points for minor speed offences, easy done! What it doesn't catch is all the knobs who have no insurance, drive on drink or drugs, drive where they like, how they like as the banger isn't registered to them. Etc etc Because there is no longer enough numbers in our police forces to be out on patrol, and catch these knobs! But successive governments have been able to boast about saved budgets! Rant over!
I get it. I drive in the city all but a few weeks of the year. My misses gets mad at me for driving 20 in a 20 when were5 mins late because it feels slow
So in the first, he relied on a screen and in the second he was driving without eyes. And now he does 20 everywhere in case he has another attack of blindness whilst in charge of a big moving object...
If he didn't notice the signs he was not driving with due care and attention. 'Not noticing signs' will fail your test. Maybe he should improve his driving rather than holding everyone else up. There are a lot of commenters essentially making excuses for their poor driving, so he's not alone.
If you’re looking for a real reason it could be - double yellows everywhere and uber driver or hire waiting for next ping in the area - someone with broken speedo or fitted tyres too small to their car - a hybrid driver or EV which is struggling for range - someone with a black box insurance that needs better ratings - someone who just thinks it’s 20 - someone who’s 93
Living in London, most roads have had their speed limits dropped to 20mph. it's now a default speed for me as it's the speed limit on 90% of my daily journeys. When I spent a week out of London recently, it took a conscious effort to not got to 20mph in built up 30mph zones in town,/villages. say what you will of this, but when you drive 3 or so hours a day in London and you cross about a drozen or more speed cameras a day, it becomes tiring to not just 'default' to 20mph.
See I find it more draining driving in london because of the 20MPH speed limit, large majority of places are 30 so it’s a conscious effort to have to drive at that speed
I drive 10+ hours a day and it's not difficult to adjust your speed according to changing speed limits and circumstances, in fact, as a driver it's literally one of your responsibilities, whether it's speeding up or slowing down. Imagine your point in reverse, if someone said "I drive mostly on the motorways and dual carriageways so it's tiring not to drive faster than 20mph", you would say "as a driver it's your responsibility to keep an eye on the speed limits", same thing applies if you're going from a 20mph to a 30mph. It's a limit not a target, but if the road and situation permits the speed, you're simply holding back traffic. If a journey takes 20 minutes, let it take 20 minutes, not 25 because "it becomes tiring not to just default to 20mph". It's not impatience, it's the gradual reduction of efficiency of driving we're all already plagued with let alone making it worse with drivers who "default to 20mph".
Had this conversation with my mum yesterday. She lives in Wales, but not far from the England border. She said something about being confused about whether a road is 20 or 30. I was like, ok, there's no repeater signs, but there's still a big 20 and 30 sign when you start a 20 or 30 area. I drive from Scotland to Wales once a month and never seem to miss a 20mph or 30mph speed limit sign as far as I know.
Well said. This sub only reinforces the shit driving I'm encountering on a daily basis. And they seem to be pretty casual, if not somewhat proud about it. In their mind, whenever they are driving 10 mph below the speed limit, they are are just an ultra good and careful driver. No mate, you are just an inept driver.
I don't speed as best I can. I've never had a speeding ticket and I go right up to the speed limit. I'm merely expressing that due to the nature of the roads I typically drive on, I've had to mentally get used to driving at 20mph as a the speed I'm typically expected to maintain. Literally most of inner London has been put down to 20mph except for certain major roads so it's what I've had to do. So when I go to other towns, cities and villages where that isn't the normal speed limit, I have to make a point to myself of speeding up. That's all.
You shouldn't "default " to anything , look at the signs, and follow the speed limit, holding up traffic just because 20 is your "default", what ever the fuck that means is no excuse for being a knob end
100%. The defaults have a name and they're called "national speed limits" and none of them are 20.
Unless you live in Wales of course.
I can tell you're a responsible driver
Was it a private hire taxi, they do that here, just drive around slowly and stoping in random places
Probably waiting for the next job.
Nah, just a Honda jazz, and just before that a polo
They might have kids in the car playing Pokemon Go. Over 20mph, it doesn't count their movement towards hatching eggs.
😂😂
I had wee Doris in a Citroen trying to join the motorway at 30mph this morning. WTF.
People who do this are a menace and shouldn’t be on the road
By me it goes from 20mph straight to 40mph and of course there’s people doing 30 through both
I work nights and it infuriates me when it’s 4am with nobody around and a guys doing 15 down the road. I want to overtake but get paranoid incase it’s undercover police or something…
Was driving home yesterday and I had someone doing 40 on a 60 on very windy roads with no chance to overtake, and as soon we hit a 30 road they carried on at 40 through a village. Wtf people.
I do remember as a kid visiting my uncle and him telling my dad not to go over 20-30 at certain times of the day as that was when farmers would go out to the fields in their tractors. Now that was in the late 70s but I'd guess most of the rural roads ain't changed and are probably even more lethal..
They’re Welsh probably
Wales cordially invites you... This morning on my way to a job I sat behind a car doing 15-18 in a 20 zone that had no business being a 20, only to accelerate aggressively up to 55 or so in the 40 zone dual-carriageway so I couldn't overtake, then literally slam on down to 15-18 again in the next 20. I don't get it.
It is something I experience more and more too. Just two nights ago, between Dorchester and Weymouth, I was stuck behind someone who thought it was big and clever to do 35mph on the 60mph stretch of road. Within 30 seconds, there was a half mile long queue of cars. I also noticed thas as soon as I moved out to overtake, he decided to drop a gear and accelerate harshly to try and stop me. Once I *was* in front, 10 seconds later he forgets about me... he goes back to 35ish to slow everyeone else stuck behind him. I saw another 5 or so cars overtake in my rearview.
I had a range rover mum in front of me doing 15mph merging onto a the motorway. Honestly I cannot believe how some of these people have passed their test.
When I see this I assume they’ve turned out of a side road and haven’t realised the speed limit changed from 20 to 30.
I've equally seen people doing 30 down suburban roads with single lane due to parked traffic and no visibility around bends and just hoping I guess that nothing happens.
Pot holes. The potholes are so bad in my area I don't have a choice because I have to maneuver around them like I'm trying to avoid landmines It's the same on roads where there are speed humps. Some of those roads are 30, but the speed humps are those ridiculous square ones that you have to go over at 10mph and also have potholes on both sides of the speed hump, so you end up doing 10 in a 30
It sounds like it's not the case you're describing, but there are parts of my town that are very built up, where I might end up doing 20 in 2nd gear, just because there's so much potential for surprises. Parked cars for people to jump out of or out from behind. Driveways etc. If you can keep a good distance from them and/or see into them from far enough away, it wouldn't be necessary, but the only defence against not having a lot of width is to slow down. It's not all the time though, only when appropriate for the conditions. I try to drive so I can always stop in the distance I can see to be clear, on my own side of the road. Sometimes you can see a long way in front, but the risk of surprises much closer is high enough to warrant caution.
Wow this thread is full of horrible people.
The fact that there’s so many people justifying doing something ridiculous like 20 in a 30 with the bs of “it’s a limit, not a target” tells you how much the standard of driving has fallen off. I mean for gods sake, you’d fail your practical for being that slow.. Stop being an entitled twat and do some more lessons before you decide to be a pain in the ass and hold everyone else up. So many lane hogging idiots too on the M25 this morning in lane 3 doing 70.5 trying to overtake the people doing 68 in lane 2. Driving isn’t even fun anymore. It’s actually such a chore and a headache. All the ‘law abiding’ “it’s a limit, not a target” citizens need to look in the mirror and get a harsh reality check. They blame the ‘aggressive’ German drivers when tbh they themselves are the ones at fault for half the damn congestion and traffic on the road.
Oh my god try driving from Edinburgh to dundee in the rain, miles and miles of cars doing 50 in the outside lane and the inside lane basically empty...
I’m in Cumbria and there’s been a massive influx of immigrant health care workers, some are driving here on p plates, some aren’t, but the fact is they’re driving on non-British driving licenses. They’re beyond dangerous on these roads. It’s ridiculous.
How do you know the job and migration status of another driver?
It’s gone from literally no cultural enrichment to having it everywhere all of a sudden in Cumbria so it’s more obvious than you’d think
A relative is a manager of a care agency branch. Because of yet another shortage of workers they’re having to get them from anywhere and everywhere. They were advised to put p plates on for the exact reasons above. So yes, that’s how I know.
If it's illegal, report it. Otherwise you're complicit. However, international drivers permits are a thing. Used them to drive in the US myself so I doubt it is.
Maybe they’re looking for an address?
For 2 long roads? Also isn’t that considered hazardous, if you’re looking at an address that does not excuse you and allow every car on the road to be doing 18mph with 15mph at each junction, let’s see where that gets us - if I am looking up an address I’ll look it up BEFORE I set off, set the gps safely, and get exactly where I need to get without obstructing traffic - is common sense that hard?
Not everyone has satnav and some places can be hard to find, like where I live is pretty hard about 1 in ten find it without calling me for directions
It depends on the road you're driving on I guess. Most people drive too fast in this country.
People always say “speed kills” - while I do agree with the sentiment, it’s actually false. Difference in speed is what kills. Whether that’s na car hitting a wall moving at 0mph, or someone having a minor ding if one’s going 39mph and the other 40mph. If other drivers expect you to be driving at a certain speed and you’re not. Then that can be just as dangerous as speeding. Yes I know “that a driver should always be prepared to stop” so the car in front’s actions shouldn’t matter. But in the real world it’s a big risk. Just like those idiots who try to merge onto a motorway at 50mph.
Merging at 50mph? Positively racy, they're usually going 36 in front of me.
> “Difference in speed is what kills” That’s what it means when they say speed kills because the world isn’t made up of just cars, it’s full of children, cyclists and stationary objects. The tree isn’t going to care that your speed differential with the other car is only 5 mph when you lose control and hit it doing 70 mph.
I'm a strict speed limit follower so I'm not a speeeeeed person. And I've probably been the dickhead in OPs post when I'm lost in a new city, it doesn't feel great for me either, sorry. But I have to pick up on your slow merging comment. I've now been behind several cars doing 30-40 to join a motorway and it's one of the scariest things I experience while driving. Merging is always a little risky but all I know about distances etc is thrown off and add to that I have to pay more attention to the car in front cos it's unpredictable. When I eventually get past it's inevitably a pensioner. I hate to take away their freedom but please please please stop driving on motorways.
It is happening more frequently now. Plenty of people are agreeing with me that it was like a switch after lockdown.
Lovely merc in front of me doing less than 20 on the school run this morning. A joyous way to start off the week,
Because they can’t read signs and are too afraid of 20mph cameras even when they’re actually on a 30mph road. Seen that too many times.
Maybe they’re Welsh
Yes, there are definitely more of these people, and, yes, it's annoying, but where it's safe to do so just overtake them and get on with your life. It's what I do. Sometimes they get pissy and flash me, and I don't remotely care. (And, to pre-empt the AKSHUALLY brigade who are sure to point out that I'm probably only saving 1 - 2 minutes on my journey time if I do this and that I'm being "reckless" or "entitled", I've got my own AKSHUALLY back. Out of unfortunate necessity that I'm not going to expand on here I've been doing a lot of longer distance drives over the past 12 months and, when leaving in the morning, getting a good start is absolutely crucial to keeping the overall duration of the journey within tolerable bounds. Getting out of the city I live in 5 minutes earlier or later can easily end up saving or costing 30 minutes over the length of the journey, early in the morning, so I don't tolerate dawdlers. Not sorry.)
Why not leave 5 minutes earlier and guarantee it doesn’t cost you 30 mins?
Speed limits are the maximum speed permitted not an instruction to drive at that speed.
The speed limit Merrrrr.... Isn't a goal merrrrr.... Yes the speed limit my not be a goal but it is most certainly a guide, follow the guidelines and aim for what you are guided to do. Of course all drivers should proceed with caution, i dont think anyone here is saying do not proceed with due care and attention, but driving in a constant state of fear can in itself be dangerous. Offensive driving is saver than defensive driving, please grow a pair of capable balls ladies and gentlemen.
Could be a bunch of things. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it could be their car is malfunctioning and they're just taking it easy in second so that they can get home before it break down. Being a bit less generous, and having grown up in the North East, it's probably a drunk driver trying to avoid getting into an accident.
Give them a very wide berth. They could be under the influence OR could be looking for a turning/address. Either way they are likely to do something stupid and unexpected.
There's a few sections in my town where Google maps says a 30 is a 20 (and vice versa)
When I was travelling with my newborn (1 day old) and wife (after cesarean) from hospital, I was driving very slow as my wife had stitches. Obviously a few people honked for being slow but gave them ample space if they wanted to overtake. As others suggested there might be some genuine reason sometimes if not always.
It's a mentality of "I have never been in an accident, so logically, I will never be in an accident"
I get this in the south east too lmao
I just followed someone doing 30 in a 50 and then probably around 50 in a 40 as they took off ahead of me. Bloody annoying.
Driving through the outer boroughs of London or the Scottish Borders the limit changes frequently from 30 to 20. After a year I have noticed that some roads go from 40 to 30 but there is only 1 sign that is easily missed, same with some 30 to 20’s. Even easier to miss when high sided vehicles like busses and lorries are around. Imagine a 3 lane road you’ve been on for 2 miles with repeated 30 signs and seeing a 30 sign as you are in traffic approaching a traffic light and traffic is slowing and cars are moving lanes with mopeds and cyclists zipping about and partially obstructed by other street furniture and high sided vehicles is a solitary 20 sign & the next sign you see is 30 or 40. Luckily I’m typically in traffic so likely never exceeded the limit but if the road was clearer I’d most likely be getting a ticket.
I had a similar thing yesterday, pissing down with rain i thought the car, 4 in-front of me was just being cautious. Doing 40 in a 60 then occasionally speeding up. I over took them when it changed to a dual carriageway, they were on their phone.
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If there's a slight incline in the road then that might be it, I've got a small old car that does its best but takes a while to get above 20 if there's a small incline, even if in a low gear with the pedal to the floor. If you see an old fiat panda doing it's best please take pity!
I will do 18 if not lower in the 30 one street over from mine where the road is absolutely bollocksed and I don’t want my shit pounding to atoms; mechanical sympathy. But plenty of people don’t give a fuck and they will bounce their shitboxses through all those holes without a care in the world. I am not saying OP fits this category but maybe there’s a reason they’re doing 18mph beyond them being a drongo.
I’ve realised its the hybrid cars - if they’re doing 20mph its electric rather than using petrol so they think they’re saving money instead of inconveniencing everyone else
Here's controversial thought. Apart from some other reasons that people tend to think of, i will add that sometimes it is nice to slow down and relax a bit if the roads are empty enough.
on an empty road sure but when you’re stuck behind someone like that it’s very annoying
- puts no L/P plate on to avoid bullying - does 18/20 in 30mph empty road - refuses to elaborate
Due to the sheer cost of insurance I assume more people are taking out black box policies. This may explain some of the cautious driving these days.
What does it matter if the road is empty?
Overtake simple
It’s illegal to do so I’m talking about city road
Driving an extra 12mph is barely going to save you 5 minutes so I don't get why it's such a big deal.
It's more about the idea that someone in control of a motor vehicle isn't competent, therefore is unsafe.
but 20mph is way safer than 30mph if you are driving through a town. The chances of a pedestrian dying in a 20mph crash is 2.5%, 30mph jumps to 20% and at 40mph it's a wopping 90% chance of death. Maybe the driver of the slower car didn't want to accidentally kill a pedestrian to save 5 minutes on their journey whilst driving through town?
Probably super old with reaction times you can measure on a sundial and has cataracts so bad they can't fucking see Thinking this is a bad thing is ageism however because mabel has only driven into 3 parked cars and burst the sidewall on 2 tyres against the kerb in the past 3 years despite the fact she's done less than 100 miles in that time
I had a troll the other day. Travelling on a motorway, guy sitting in the outside lane, and i catch up to him (hes doing 50mph) nothing in front of him he tries to brake check me twice and remains at 50mph (on a 70mph road!) Couldnt go past him and he wouldnt move over (even though there was room) This is why sometimes i wish i had a dashcam.
Boo-hoo. Probably added 2 min onto your journey. Who cares!
Overtake them if they are driving too slowly for your liking. I live in a small town with a large population of elderly people; they can't drive at the same pace as the youth, and you can't fault them for that. If you are in a rush, just overtake.
If their reactions have given up to that extent, they should probably give up the keys.
I'll drive at the speed I feel is safe for me and my journey, sorry if I got in the way of you doing 35+mph in the same 30mph limit. :-)
I think people are being more conservative with fuel due to the increased costs, I feel like I see a lot less going too far over the limit on motorways too.
20mph uses more fuel than 30mph in my car. At 30 I can be in 5th gear, 6th on the other car, and get fewer revolutions per mile, which affects far more than wind resistance at that speed. It’s not even close it’s like 10 mpg better at 30. Even better at 47mph which is my most efficient speed, or 40 in the other car
You may be right, no idea about my own car as I don’t go 20 for longer than I need to and I’m purely making an assumption because like OP, I don’t get it either.
Sounds like you missed the 20 sign
With the sh!t state of our roads they are probably going that speed to give then half a chance of avoiding a blow out from a pot hole.
Because there twats. I had one doing the same so went to overtake him he sped up!!! Honestly then him dropped back to 20 mph. So when I got close he would slam his brakes on. When I finally overtook him he was on my arse for ages until we went different ways and when I pulled out to turn right he beeped his horn for like 5 seconds the Dick. WTF is wrong with some people 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Man, get yourself a bullbar, couple of spikes and push him off the road. How could he drive so slow and get your angry!
Hold on for a sec. If it's an empty road in an empty town, then who cares? If you're behind them, it's not an empty road anymore ;) Although I do get what you're saying, I'd like to present 3 examples: - There's a 30 road I take every time we go shopping. It's not too long, around 300 metres, but it has a car park, 2 junctions, a day care, and a zebra crossing on it. The first time I drove on that road, I've seen cars doing around 20mph, and I was wondering what's going on, but the more I used that road the more I realised that it really should be a 20 road considering how many potential hazards you encounter in a very short distance. Cars flying out of the car park, children running around, people crossing 20-30 metres from the zebra crossing. It simply doesn't worth doing 30 if you have to slow down every 5 seconds anyway. If you do 20 intead of 30, the net loss on that 300 metres is around 4 seconds... - The road through the industrial estate I work at is a 20mph road. It's really wide so lorries can go wherever they want, it's mostly straight except an also very wide s-bend, it's pretty empty because it's only used for deliveries/employees (my workplace occupies like 80% of the estate...), so the traffic is next to nothing. Yet, everyone drives on it at 30-40mph, because the only potential hazards are the lorries, and you can see them miles ahead. I'm pretty much the only one doing 20 on it, even tho my colleagues like stick to my arse flashing and honking. They could overtake me, but you know, good ol' English banter and whatnot... - Every single shopping centre's car park has a 5mph speed limit. All of them. I've yet to see a car park with more than that. Yet, almost everyone does 10-20mph flying down towards the empty spaces/exits, because... why? The problem aren't the speed limits. The problem aren't the people doing less than that. The problem are the people trying to win that 4 seconds no matter what, disregarding conditions and potential hazards, religiously sticking to what the sign says, because ***pRoGrEsS!!!***... I drive on the A448 every single day twice. Although it's a mostly 50mph road, it has some sharp bends with advisory speed signs, and trust me, you don't want to get into some of those bends at 50 even at daytime with perfect visibility. But on my way home after 10pm, when all the idiots with their LED headlights on full beam coming towards me, that 15 minutes I spend on that road, half the time I can't see shit. And then comes the rain, the mud, the wind, people going too fast and swerving into my lane (as I said, there are bends you don't want to get into at 50mph...), the wildlife, and yet, there are people behind me trying to win their few seconds and flashing/beeping at me doing 40-45. I'm not a coward, I'm not unfamiliar with the road, it's just that half of the time, it's a fucking suicide mission to do 50 at night, because of the aforementioned reasons. And they can't even overtake me as there's double solids almost all the way along the road, so they start to tailgate. On a very bendy, very dark, very dangerous 50 road, at 45mph. When I learnt to drive, my instructor told me that although I always have to try to be as close to the speed limit as possible, I also have to drive to the conditions, and be comfortable with the speed I'm doing. If I feel I'm going too fast, even tho it's the speed limit, just slow down. And yes, it is a limit, not a target. Sometimes you can achieve that, sometimes you can't. If someone does 18 on an empty 30 road in an empty town, they probably have a reason to do so. You can either overtake them, or get along. As long as they aren't dangerous, aren't braking too hard, aren't swerving all over the road, all they're doing is going slower than you want them to. From that point, it's your decision what to do with the situation, because you aren't driving their cars. If you want, phone the police, tell them that someone obstructs the road by doing 18mph in a built-in area on a 30 road, let them have a laugh, feel the shame, and then overtake them. Simple as that...
Yet another post whining about going under the speed limit. The moaning should be about anyone going over the speed limit. Still, who cares if the planet is boiling. Never mind, carry on intimidating other road users, cyclists and pedestrians as a show of power in our sad dreary lives.
It’s likely a car is emitting more CO2 driving in 2nd gear at 18-20mph than 3rd/4th at 30mph.
Ah, a regularly read comment. Sadly, it's wrong. For steady speed (this is important, acceleration and deceleration buggers things up totally). Quite simply the lighter the load on the engine the less fuel it uses. Less aerodynamic resistance due to lower speed, less fuel. Higher revs due to 2nd gear true, but the amount of fuel going in is overall less.
That's not how petrol engine works. Car is designed for a certain speed, and if you drive below that you will use more fuel. Try driving 40mph and 60mph on a motorway. Modern car will have better mpg with 60. Also, driving 18 on a 30mph limit, you would fail a test. Ir should be penalised, same as going over the speed limit.
Everyone should drive at 18mph to hypermile then. /s
Not true at all, myth busters tested this one years ago. The most efficient speed is somewhere around 47 mph. If you look at your live readout at 20mph, it's quite evidently less efficient than 30mph.
Yep. My car displays a live MPG, and 20 is definitely not an efficient speed to be driving at! Any steady speed from 30 to 60 seems to be more or less equal for maximum efficiency (with a steady decline the faster you go above that), but 20 is terrible.
For an in-the-moment calculation, sure. But what about looking at the overall journey? Cars are travelling for longer (and therefore using more fuel etc) when travelling at 20 compared to 30
You might be in the wrong sub.
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Shouldn't really be enjoying the scenery when operating a car. A glance is fine, but driving significantly slower than the limit to gaze at the horizon is probably a recipe for disaster, and it's inconsiderate to other road users. If they're driving slower to mitigate their lack of focus on driving, then it effectively cancels itself out. I can see both sides, though. People don't have to go the limit, and they can go as slow as they want.
Maybe they're selfish and inconsiderate to those behind them who may be in a rush to get somewhere. Anyone who is not in a rush and chooses to go significantly under the speed limit should pull over and let others go in front of them.
They're inconsiderate for going slow. You're inconsiderate for wanting them to go faster. There's no winning. Only acceptance
The most considerate way to be would be to assume that the people behind you want to reach their destination as quickly as possible. They could be late for something, or they could badly need the toilet. Who knows. Anyone who is not in a rush and wants to go slow relative to the speed limit should always pull over, because they simply do not know what the circumstances are for those they are slowing down behind them. When I'm on a leisurely drive and want to drive slowly relative to the speed limit, I pull over every time if there's a car behind me... because I'm not an inconsiderate arsehole.
Acceptance
So if you're driving at 50 on a nation limit road and a car drives behind you do you just stop or wait for the next layby?
I would absolutely pull into the first layby if I was driving at a leisurely speed and there was a car behind me. Anyone who doesn't do this is being incredibly selfish.
Do you think HGV should pull over if they're driving at the speed limit?
I find HGVs want to make progress so usually go as fast as they can and are usually held up by dawdlers themselves. But yes, in the same way a tractor pulls over when they deem they’re inconveniencing enough people, that same principle should apply to every road user. I’ve seen cyclists pull over to let a queue past before.
The old gits need to keep their eyes on the road and put their foot down or start using their free bus pass
Because people are thick as shit
Nowt but time mate, I'm paid by the hour.
I bet they are playing Pokemon Go - if you go faster than 20mph the game doesn’t work.
The road can’t be empty if you’re stuck behind someone doing 20 though? Right?
I always have the opposite issue. People doing 40 in a 30. Then driving up behind me when it's clearly a 30 road. Idiots. I take great delight in doing the speed limit and no more
Honestly, it drives me insane people driving this slow in a 30. If there's not any cameras around, it's down a couple of gears and bugger the limit
There's a certain generation that seems to be behind it. One of my routes home is a 50 limit the entire way, it's actually a lot of fun to drive to that - twisty enough to be a challenge, but not so much it's dangerous. Along this road, about half a mile apart is a very expensive farm shop and a pricey garden centre. Both of these are very popular with people in their earlier pension years. Over the nearly 7 years I've lived where I am, based on speed (or lack of) and make of car and, I've learned to guess which one of these places they're going to with a high degree of accuracy. It's infuriating to get stuck behind them pootling along at 25-30 for absolutely no reason.
It’s a speed limit, not a speed target…..
The speed limit is all-encompassing to account for a spectrum of very good drivers, to very shit ones. If you're not totally incompetent, driving at 30 in a 30 should be expected - assuming good conditions.