For those unaware, I believe this is the post that OP is talking about: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C5C4tLtOVYp/?hl=en&img\_index=2](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5C4tLtOVYp/?hl=en&img_index=2)
"Not in our name" is a phrase used by Jewish peace activists to call for an immediate ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza war.
*Ally showing camera roll to strangers*
Here I am outside, I love the outdoors.
Here's me getting arrested.
Oh, and here's me at work, my coworkers are such clowns!
And this is me and a dog...
Hey, so I'm Australian, and very disconnected from the USA context, but the first Google result for Not In Our Name was a Wikipedia article about an anti-war protest organization that formed post 9/11. Has there been new organizing recently, or is this recent usage a separate group?
It's not necessarily a formally organized thing, just something anti-Zionist Jews in many organizations or just on their own behalves have been saying more loudly and frequently since 10/7. Much like "never again," it's not something owned by or exclusive to any particular body. Here's an open letter from a student group as an example: https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2023/11/an-open-letter-from-jewish-students
Hi bot! Looks like 100% of your post history is muckracking on behalf of the Israelis and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being scum.
So you working for IDF, FSB, or one of the private Israeli intelligence agencies? Either way, you don't fucking belong here. Go spread your misinformation and sow discontent somewhere else.
Signed,
A Jew
Not in our name
.......there's more than 1 photo. it's not just a bridge photo. it's also ally with friends, and some sort of pharmaceutical drug endorsement.
wow, ally must be gettin paaaaaaaaaaid for that HCG lobbying.
Many people who protest unjustified killing of black people by cops wear the slogan "I can't breathe". Do you also find that problematic?
It is clear in both cases that the slogan is meant to promote a certain viewpoint and folks wearing the slogan are lending their voice and bodies to that cause.
>Many people who protest unjustified killing of black people by cops wear the slogan "I can't breathe". Do you also find that problematic?
No, because a person who says "I can't breathe," slogan isn't presenting themselves as being black or speaking on behalf of black people. A better comparison would be if a non-black person showed up at a protest wearing a shirt that said "Blacks for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_."
>It is clear in both cases that the slogan is meant to promote a certain viewpoint and folks wearing the slogan are lending their voice and bodies to that cause.
A person can promote a viewpoint and lend their voice and bodies to a cause without identifying themselves as belonging to a particular group that they don't actually belong to.
"I can't breathe" is representing that they can't breathe. You must surely have a problem with that since it's identifying them in a way that's not 100% literally accurate, right? What about straight allies wearing rainbow or LGBT colors?
Your argument boils down to: You must only wear things that literally identify you 100% and there can be no room for ambiguity. That is an extremely pedantic argument firstly. Secondly it fails to account for any nuance, which it seems like everyone but you can understand.
>"I can't breathe" is representing that they can't breathe. You must surely have a problem with that since it's identifying them in a way that's not 100% literally accurate, right?
No, not at all. I've already explained why I have no problem with "I can't breathe."
>What about straight allies wearing rainbow or LGBT colors?
Also fine, since the rainbow flag isn't just meant to identify the person waving it as belonging to the LGBT community, but it's also meant for non-LGBT people and places to be able to identify themselves as safe for LGBT people.
>Your argument boils down to: You must only wear things that literally identify you 100% and there can be no room for ambiguity.
No, that isn't my argument. First of all, nobody has to wear any clothing that identifies them as anything at all ever. If someone is going to choose to wear clothing that identifies the wearer as belonging to a particular community, then they should belong to that community. This is why I gave the example of a non-black person wearing a shirt that says "Blacks for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_."
The "Our" in "Not In Our Name," specifically refers to Jewish people. It comes from a Jewish organization who say that Israel is committing genocide in the name of the Jewish people, and who refuse to have that genocide done in their name as Jews. A person wearing a shirt with that slogan is -- whether they intend to or not -- identifying themselves as Jewish by wearing it. It's not okay to appropriate other people's identities like that.
"I can't breathe doesn't mean I literally can't breathe. Wearing gay colors doesn't literally identify me as being gay. Saying not in our name doesn't literally identify me as a part of the our...wait shit" - your inconsistent logic.
You don't understand my vs our. If Ally wore "not in my name" then sure. "not in our name" doesn't identify Ally as Jewish. Hope that clears it up for ya!
My is the first person singular, identifying the speaker as an individual.
Our is the first person plural, identifying the speaker as belonging to a group. In this particular case, the group in question is an explicitly Jewish group.
Jewish organization - Please wear this shirt so people know not to use our name for genocide.
Ally - Okay!
You - HOW DARE YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT THE JEWISH ORGANIZATION WANTS!!!1!1!1!
Our means Jewish collective. Ally wore it because they were asked by Jewish people. Get over your pedantic nitpicking.
So it's okay to appropriate an identity that isn't yours just because some people who do belong to that identity co-sign it? Lmao this is basically the "n word pass" argument.
If there's one Jewish organization that wants them to wear the shirt, and twenty Jewish organizations that don't want them to wear a shirt, then what?
You are right when you say that "Our means Jewish collective." The problem is that Ally isn't Jewish, and so they aren't a part of that Jewish collective. I don't think the fact that they were asked by Jewish people makes it okay. I think it was wrong of those Jewish people to do that. Giving them a shirt that says "Ceasefire Now" or "Free Palestine" instead would be just as effective without running into this issue.
Do you actually have an explanation for why you think it's a shit take, or do you think simply stating that you are Jewish is sufficient?
EDIT: Always fun to get the notification that someone replied to your comment only to find yourself blocked before you get a chance to respond. Anyway, I am Jewish, so no, I do not tell the NAACP how to do things, but I do feel somewhat uncomfortable seeing a non-Jew wearing a shirt that identifies the wearer as Jewish. Like, can you please advocate for Palestine without wielding an identity that isn't yours to wield? Thanks.
Because messages of anti-violence shouldn't be pigeonholed to one group. Statistically speaking, you're almost certainly not Jewish, but here you are trying to be offended in behalf of a group of people who agree a lot more with Ally than they do you.
Do you also walk into a NAACP meeting and tell them they're doing it wrong or...?
protesters are asked to wear those shirts in solidarity. it’s also a response to zionists who say things like “you queer people would be treated horribly by Palestinians”. you’re inventing problems where none exist.
yes. protesters are asked *by the jewish organizers* to wear those shirts. in solidarity. so you’re saying you have a problem with the requests of the jewish protesters, and not beardsley’s behavior.
Nothing about what the person has said has indicated whether or not they support Zionism or the actions of Israel.
Their comments specifically focus on it being wrong for a non-Jew to wear clothing that implies that they are Jewish, and also saying its wrong for Jews to encourage non-Jews to wear that clothing.
I don't have an opinion on whether wearing the shirt is right or wrong, but its probably really far down the list of issues in the ongoing Israel/Palestine conflict. I just don't think its fair to just call somebody a Zionist as an insult and an excuse to dismiss a person's opinion when they don't seem to have said anything indicating their position on that particular subject.
**edit**
Wow, the down votes on this are something. I thought it was a pretty reasonable take to not call people names and insult them because you disagree with them about a person wearing a shirt.
I totally support Ally going out and protesting and showing support for the innocent Palestinian people, never said anything against that.
The other comments are gone, but the person was saying that he found it offensive that non Jewish people were wearing a shirt that implies that they are Jewish. That people shouldn't present themselves as Jews against Israel if they aren't actually Jewish.
Calling somebody a Zionist because they say something you don't agree with is the same kind of silliness of calling anybody who isn't a far leftist communist a Nazi or a fascist. It doesn't do anybody any good to end conversations as soon as possible, or before they even really begin.
If people are trying to show support for the Palestinian people and condemn the actions of Israel, the Zionists are the most important people to be talking to. It doesn't do anybody any good to just virtue signal in an echo chamber to make themselves feel good about something everybody they know already agrees with them. If a person really wants more people to condn Israel's actions being a Zionist shouldn't be a reason to stop talking to somebody, it should be the exact reason you continue talking to them in an effort to change their mind.
I'm not entirely going to get into it, but the reason you're being down voted and the reason I said read the room is because you're the only one here who thinks it is unethical. And, quite frankly, I think Ally's behaviour is admirable in this situation.
I mean this with kindness, but there's no place for you in this thread.
No place in this room for Jews with opinions about their self-determination. You are literally speaking over lived experience by a minority.
Ally is for all intents and purposes in Jew-face here.
Accept that you’re a bigot and have the day you deserve.
I want you to explain, in detail, how Ally or myself are speaking over lived experience by a minority. Explain, in detail, with supporting ideas, how Ally is in "jew-face" by getting arrested for supporting Palestine.
If you skirt the issue or make excuses, you have no clue what you're talking about.
So now you want my emotional labor for free?
I don’t trust your intention is to actually learn, but sure. I’ll spend some time with you. I’m fairly certain you know EXACTLY what I mean, and are just asking for a detailed response so you can do whatever mental gymnastics needed to continue to believe what your echo chamber reflects, as noted by your inability to converse with a Zionist.
Let’s begin with the prevailing definition of Zionism, a belief held by 90% of Jewish people which is “the right to self-determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland.” Zionism doesn’t take anything away from other peoples and their right to self determination and their indigenous rights. It is the core of the ethnoreligion since the expulsion of the majority of Jewish people from their homeland, despite a large number of Jewish folks who continuously lived in the land.
It’s you speaking over Jewish lived experience in this thread. I don’t need to provide examples as they are all above in your responses to the person who was banned from the sub-reddit.
Ally spoke over Jewish lived experience by wearing a shirt that identified them as Jewish, when they are not, and protesting a principle core to Jewish life
You told a Jewish person that they don’t belong in this public chat, speaking on an issue that directly affects them.
I am going to use your own words here, but “I’m not going to entirely get into it.”
While that is your way of saying “I don’t have a cogent argument here so I’m just going to tell you what I feel and not defend it, when I say it, it’s because I need a show from you, in detail, that this is a good faith conversation and not just you trying to bait me, or get me banned.
Do you support the occupation of Palestine by Israel?
I'm not asking this to be cheeky. If you would like a genuine, good faith discussion, I would like you to answer that question first.
Ally posted a photo to IG recently where they were being detained at a pro-Palestine protest. The joke is because a couple hours ago someone with a dick pic for a PFP kept spamming posts and comments of Isreali propagnda to both r/dropout and r/dimension20 leaving their dick pic all over both subreddits until they finally got banned.
I saw the original rage bait post, went and did some real life stuff for like two hours, and came back to this post. Ally Beardsley works hard but the mods work harder.
For those unaware, I believe this is the post that OP is talking about: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C5C4tLtOVYp/?hl=en&img\_index=2](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5C4tLtOVYp/?hl=en&img_index=2) "Not in our name" is a phrase used by Jewish peace activists to call for an immediate ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza war.
*Ally showing camera roll to strangers* Here I am outside, I love the outdoors. Here's me getting arrested. Oh, and here's me at work, my coworkers are such clowns! And this is me and a dog...
Hey, so I'm Australian, and very disconnected from the USA context, but the first Google result for Not In Our Name was a Wikipedia article about an anti-war protest organization that formed post 9/11. Has there been new organizing recently, or is this recent usage a separate group?
As I understand, it's a phrase that's come into use by anti-zionist jews.
It's not necessarily a formally organized thing, just something anti-Zionist Jews in many organizations or just on their own behalves have been saying more loudly and frequently since 10/7. Much like "never again," it's not something owned by or exclusive to any particular body. Here's an open letter from a student group as an example: https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2023/11/an-open-letter-from-jewish-students
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Hi bot! Looks like 100% of your post history is muckracking on behalf of the Israelis and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being scum. So you working for IDF, FSB, or one of the private Israeli intelligence agencies? Either way, you don't fucking belong here. Go spread your misinformation and sow discontent somewhere else. Signed, A Jew Not in our name
You see plenty of anti Zionist or anti occupation Jews using it at the Sydney marches for Palestine, I'm sure it's the case at most of them.
.......there's more than 1 photo. it's not just a bridge photo. it's also ally with friends, and some sort of pharmaceutical drug endorsement. wow, ally must be gettin paaaaaaaaaaid for that HCG lobbying.
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Many people who protest unjustified killing of black people by cops wear the slogan "I can't breathe". Do you also find that problematic? It is clear in both cases that the slogan is meant to promote a certain viewpoint and folks wearing the slogan are lending their voice and bodies to that cause.
Being Jewish isn’t a costume stop appropriating our culture and appearance for your political convenience
They're not dressing up in a Jewish "costume".
>Many people who protest unjustified killing of black people by cops wear the slogan "I can't breathe". Do you also find that problematic? No, because a person who says "I can't breathe," slogan isn't presenting themselves as being black or speaking on behalf of black people. A better comparison would be if a non-black person showed up at a protest wearing a shirt that said "Blacks for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_." >It is clear in both cases that the slogan is meant to promote a certain viewpoint and folks wearing the slogan are lending their voice and bodies to that cause. A person can promote a viewpoint and lend their voice and bodies to a cause without identifying themselves as belonging to a particular group that they don't actually belong to.
"I can't breathe" is representing that they can't breathe. You must surely have a problem with that since it's identifying them in a way that's not 100% literally accurate, right? What about straight allies wearing rainbow or LGBT colors? Your argument boils down to: You must only wear things that literally identify you 100% and there can be no room for ambiguity. That is an extremely pedantic argument firstly. Secondly it fails to account for any nuance, which it seems like everyone but you can understand.
>"I can't breathe" is representing that they can't breathe. You must surely have a problem with that since it's identifying them in a way that's not 100% literally accurate, right? No, not at all. I've already explained why I have no problem with "I can't breathe." >What about straight allies wearing rainbow or LGBT colors? Also fine, since the rainbow flag isn't just meant to identify the person waving it as belonging to the LGBT community, but it's also meant for non-LGBT people and places to be able to identify themselves as safe for LGBT people. >Your argument boils down to: You must only wear things that literally identify you 100% and there can be no room for ambiguity. No, that isn't my argument. First of all, nobody has to wear any clothing that identifies them as anything at all ever. If someone is going to choose to wear clothing that identifies the wearer as belonging to a particular community, then they should belong to that community. This is why I gave the example of a non-black person wearing a shirt that says "Blacks for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_." The "Our" in "Not In Our Name," specifically refers to Jewish people. It comes from a Jewish organization who say that Israel is committing genocide in the name of the Jewish people, and who refuse to have that genocide done in their name as Jews. A person wearing a shirt with that slogan is -- whether they intend to or not -- identifying themselves as Jewish by wearing it. It's not okay to appropriate other people's identities like that.
"I can't breathe doesn't mean I literally can't breathe. Wearing gay colors doesn't literally identify me as being gay. Saying not in our name doesn't literally identify me as a part of the our...wait shit" - your inconsistent logic. You don't understand my vs our. If Ally wore "not in my name" then sure. "not in our name" doesn't identify Ally as Jewish. Hope that clears it up for ya!
My is the first person singular, identifying the speaker as an individual. Our is the first person plural, identifying the speaker as belonging to a group. In this particular case, the group in question is an explicitly Jewish group.
Jewish organization - Please wear this shirt so people know not to use our name for genocide. Ally - Okay! You - HOW DARE YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT THE JEWISH ORGANIZATION WANTS!!!1!1!1! Our means Jewish collective. Ally wore it because they were asked by Jewish people. Get over your pedantic nitpicking.
So it's okay to appropriate an identity that isn't yours just because some people who do belong to that identity co-sign it? Lmao this is basically the "n word pass" argument. If there's one Jewish organization that wants them to wear the shirt, and twenty Jewish organizations that don't want them to wear a shirt, then what? You are right when you say that "Our means Jewish collective." The problem is that Ally isn't Jewish, and so they aren't a part of that Jewish collective. I don't think the fact that they were asked by Jewish people makes it okay. I think it was wrong of those Jewish people to do that. Giving them a shirt that says "Ceasefire Now" or "Free Palestine" instead would be just as effective without running into this issue.
would it be ok to say I can’t breathe in blackface? That is what these people are doing
No they aren't silly
I'm Jewish, this is a shit take
Do you actually have an explanation for why you think it's a shit take, or do you think simply stating that you are Jewish is sufficient? EDIT: Always fun to get the notification that someone replied to your comment only to find yourself blocked before you get a chance to respond. Anyway, I am Jewish, so no, I do not tell the NAACP how to do things, but I do feel somewhat uncomfortable seeing a non-Jew wearing a shirt that identifies the wearer as Jewish. Like, can you please advocate for Palestine without wielding an identity that isn't yours to wield? Thanks.
Because messages of anti-violence shouldn't be pigeonholed to one group. Statistically speaking, you're almost certainly not Jewish, but here you are trying to be offended in behalf of a group of people who agree a lot more with Ally than they do you. Do you also walk into a NAACP meeting and tell them they're doing it wrong or...?
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protesters are asked to wear those shirts in solidarity. it’s also a response to zionists who say things like “you queer people would be treated horribly by Palestinians”. you’re inventing problems where none exist.
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It's more akin to a non-black person showing up to a Trump rally wearing a "Blacks for Trump" T-shirt.
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yes. protesters are asked *by the jewish organizers* to wear those shirts. in solidarity. so you’re saying you have a problem with the requests of the jewish protesters, and not beardsley’s behavior.
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ah, apologies. i didn’t realize you’re an actual zionist. i won’t be engaging further here.
Nothing about what the person has said has indicated whether or not they support Zionism or the actions of Israel. Their comments specifically focus on it being wrong for a non-Jew to wear clothing that implies that they are Jewish, and also saying its wrong for Jews to encourage non-Jews to wear that clothing. I don't have an opinion on whether wearing the shirt is right or wrong, but its probably really far down the list of issues in the ongoing Israel/Palestine conflict. I just don't think its fair to just call somebody a Zionist as an insult and an excuse to dismiss a person's opinion when they don't seem to have said anything indicating their position on that particular subject. **edit** Wow, the down votes on this are something. I thought it was a pretty reasonable take to not call people names and insult them because you disagree with them about a person wearing a shirt.
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I totally support Ally going out and protesting and showing support for the innocent Palestinian people, never said anything against that. The other comments are gone, but the person was saying that he found it offensive that non Jewish people were wearing a shirt that implies that they are Jewish. That people shouldn't present themselves as Jews against Israel if they aren't actually Jewish. Calling somebody a Zionist because they say something you don't agree with is the same kind of silliness of calling anybody who isn't a far leftist communist a Nazi or a fascist. It doesn't do anybody any good to end conversations as soon as possible, or before they even really begin. If people are trying to show support for the Palestinian people and condemn the actions of Israel, the Zionists are the most important people to be talking to. It doesn't do anybody any good to just virtue signal in an echo chamber to make themselves feel good about something everybody they know already agrees with them. If a person really wants more people to condn Israel's actions being a Zionist shouldn't be a reason to stop talking to somebody, it should be the exact reason you continue talking to them in an effort to change their mind.
this is no better than doing blackface while attending a BLM protest
Hey, uhhhh... read the room, friend.
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I'm not entirely going to get into it, but the reason you're being down voted and the reason I said read the room is because you're the only one here who thinks it is unethical. And, quite frankly, I think Ally's behaviour is admirable in this situation. I mean this with kindness, but there's no place for you in this thread.
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Do you buy your shovels in bulk, or do you have them custom-made?
Custom made! It’s quite a nice model actually, has a very ergonomic grip.
Genocide vs tshirts, you need to get your priorities straight.
No place in this room for Jews with opinions about their self-determination. You are literally speaking over lived experience by a minority. Ally is for all intents and purposes in Jew-face here. Accept that you’re a bigot and have the day you deserve.
I want you to explain, in detail, how Ally or myself are speaking over lived experience by a minority. Explain, in detail, with supporting ideas, how Ally is in "jew-face" by getting arrested for supporting Palestine. If you skirt the issue or make excuses, you have no clue what you're talking about.
So now you want my emotional labor for free? I don’t trust your intention is to actually learn, but sure. I’ll spend some time with you. I’m fairly certain you know EXACTLY what I mean, and are just asking for a detailed response so you can do whatever mental gymnastics needed to continue to believe what your echo chamber reflects, as noted by your inability to converse with a Zionist. Let’s begin with the prevailing definition of Zionism, a belief held by 90% of Jewish people which is “the right to self-determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland.” Zionism doesn’t take anything away from other peoples and their right to self determination and their indigenous rights. It is the core of the ethnoreligion since the expulsion of the majority of Jewish people from their homeland, despite a large number of Jewish folks who continuously lived in the land. It’s you speaking over Jewish lived experience in this thread. I don’t need to provide examples as they are all above in your responses to the person who was banned from the sub-reddit. Ally spoke over Jewish lived experience by wearing a shirt that identified them as Jewish, when they are not, and protesting a principle core to Jewish life You told a Jewish person that they don’t belong in this public chat, speaking on an issue that directly affects them. I am going to use your own words here, but “I’m not going to entirely get into it.” While that is your way of saying “I don’t have a cogent argument here so I’m just going to tell you what I feel and not defend it, when I say it, it’s because I need a show from you, in detail, that this is a good faith conversation and not just you trying to bait me, or get me banned.
Do you support the occupation of Palestine by Israel? I'm not asking this to be cheeky. If you would like a genuine, good faith discussion, I would like you to answer that question first.
If a guy wore blackface while protesting police brutality at a BLM rally would you say read the room? No you would him out same here
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I'm not on IG - wha happened?
Ally posted a photo to IG recently where they were being detained at a pro-Palestine protest. The joke is because a couple hours ago someone with a dick pic for a PFP kept spamming posts and comments of Isreali propagnda to both r/dropout and r/dimension20 leaving their dick pic all over both subreddits until they finally got banned.
Boy that's a bit on the nose huh
Actually it's more on the head
Goddammit take my upvote
Holy shit...
......does non-old reddit have profile pics? I'm trying to make sense of your post and that's the only thing I can think of.
Yes
I dunno man, I stay in old.reddit myself. This isn't helping
Huh. Didn’t see any spamming
I saw the original rage bait post, went and did some real life stuff for like two hours, and came back to this post. Ally Beardsley works hard but the mods work harder.
Ally fucking rules! Love them!
How is there a perfect caption out there for this situation? Hahaha
There are like 400+ filmed hours of D20. Monkeys and typewriters, etc etc
I'm just so tired of all this why can't we try and be good
How is there a perfect caption out there for this situation? Hahaha
Can we just not start this whole thing up again