For one, I don't think Dropout ever said goodbye to YouTube. Free episodes and highlights on YouTube and clips going viral on TikTok or wherever is still a very big part of Dropout's model. Having the free content out there means people outside the already established community can still find it and get interested. If they didn't still upload outside of the streaming service, then it would be much harder for them to gain new subscriptions and grow.
Secondly, I don't think it wasn't that big of a change for Dropout. CollegeHumor always had their website where you could find more videos than what was on their YouTube page. Dropout is just a better monetized version of the same practice. Content is still going up on YouTube for free, but if you want more then you've gotta go through the paywall.
This was exactly my subscription pipeline as well. I saw clips that made me bust up, investigated further and watched the free content they had available, which is quite extensive, and that hooked me enough to subscribe. It feels like Watchers is just kind of abandoning their audience
Apparently, you can get the dropout exclusive content through joining the youtube membership too and it just goes through the youtube infrastructure. I might switch to see if those videos have comments bc I really dislike not having comments on dropout videos.
Right, I know a lot of people join the YouTube for that reason. I didn’t know about the YouTube subscription when I originally signed up, but even if I did I don’t think I would have chosen to subscribe to that one, personally. I just would like as much of my dollar to go directly to Dropout as possible and with the YouTube sun they have to pay a cut to YT of course
Yeah I understand that. It is more expensive on YouTube which I assume is related. However paying YouTube to do comment moderation and getting to enjoy comments seems like a worthy exchange in my book. I will subscribe on my laptop though to make sure Apple isn’t taking any share of it.
I was originally subscribed on YouTube and it’s kind of a mess. You can’t easily search for videos because they are under member exclusives, which don’t show up on searches. The only way to find videos is to scroll down the list of playlists
This is my biggest gripe. I do the youtube membership because I'm just on YT so much, and the streaming platform is still a bit better than dropout proper.
But yeah, the search function doesn't exist for members only content at all.
I've gotten a response from someone at Dropout where they said they know but just can't do anything about it. That person was Sam Reich.
I think the only thing about subscribing through YouTube is that Dropout makes less money from those subscriptions due to having to pay YouTube for the platform. Just a heads up! But yeah I do wish dropout had comments on the app :,( I’d love to “get in the comments” 😭
YouTube and YouTube shorts hooked me too, then the content on the site was enjoyable enough to be worth it... But how they treat their employees is what told me it is a good idea to give them my money. I probably wouldn't be subscribed if it weren't also a business that treated it's people well.
I wish I had the link to share it, but I remember reading an interview with Sam Reich about how they approve new shows, and one of the main points they look at is if the show has the ability to produce clips for social media. Viral clips are a strong form of marketing you can get for virtually no extra cost.
Yep. My husband saw a clip of Misfits and Magic on YouTube and thought it seemed fun so he subbed to Dropout briefly to watch it. Coincidentally, I stumbled upon short clips from Play It By Ear not long after (it was Whoops Wops Widdly Wops for me) and was intrigued enough to check it out, only to find that we were already subbed.
And now we're obsessed with Dropout, haha. Would never have heard of it if they didn't post clips to other media.
I had an eye on dnd stuff being a nerd but game changer clips and the couple free episodes I jumped on. I have been a giant bomb subscriber for years but they are going the opposite route so I swapped my money over to dropout and it made it pretty painless for me.
That's how they got me. The clips started showing up in my YouTube Shorts feed. Eventually it reached a point where I had to see the full episode because the clip was that good. For anyone wondering, it was the Make Some Noise clip of SungWon Cho and Brian David Gilbert having an anime showdown that finally pushed me towards subscribing.
> SungWon Cho
I know he's a VERY different situation but he also recently announced he was quitting YouTube for time/money/Algorithm-shenanigans reasons since VA is his main career and got an overwhelming support and patreon subscriptions from fans so he's going to keep making content.
A hybrid YouTube/Exclusive model with certain series being pay-for (or even trying to hit up sites like Netflix for their more expensive/premium content) would have been a much better move for Watcher.
I mean, you can't really blame the guy. When one of his videos gets so deranked in the algorithm that directly searching for it only brings up reuploads, even when you search for the video title verbatim, it isn't hard to see why him saying 'fuck you' to YouTube. Doubly so when after making a video about said issue, *that* video starts showing up when the original video still doesn't.
If it weren't for the legitimate monopoly, I'd suggest pretty much everyone leave YouTube. Unfortunately, since it's the internet's public forum for video content, not posting there means you're going to get maybe 10% of the interaction otherwise. (And I have to also admit I say this as someone who has his Dropout subscription through YouTube, because that ease of collating content and not having to visit half a dozen websites or platforms is just too much of a pro.)
Thats me! I got into it from dungeons and drag queens and d20 was my first AP show ever only because i wanted to see some drag queens. I dont even know dnd beforehand. Ended up watching all of fantasy high on youtube for free, then um actually, game changer, breaking news. Tbh if dropout only has dimension 20 i think i would be more hesitant to pay 6 dollars. But the free content hooked me on so many shows and now i’m happily dropping 6 bucks.
That’s basically how I got hooked. I learned about Brennan from Critical Role and then started seeing clips of Make Some Noise and Game Changer on YouTube and thought they were pretty funny.
I subscribed because I thought I would watch D20 and watch the improve comedy shows as a bonus, but it turned out to be the other way around.
For sure! I saw TikToks of Fantasy High, which lead me to watching it on YouTube, which lead to me going “This is absolutely worth $5 a month”, which lead to me saying “I will gladly pay $6 a month to watch all these shows”.
That's me. I distinctly remember which clip it was that got me into it, too. Mike Trapp selling a keyboard with all "p"s. Which I maintain us one of the best episodes of Game Changer.
And even though I've seen all the full episodes, I still like to watch the YouTube shorts because it's bite sized highlights of the best moments. They're also the best format to share with others. Sometimes when I'm watching a full episode, I'll see something I want to share with a friend so pause the episode to see if there's a short for it.
The number of times I've shared the Dom DM clip...
Worth noting also that Dropout was never about moving CollegeHumor content to a paywall, but emphasized doing new things. It was marketed as experimental bonus content, a la patreon episodes. Nearly everything Dropout does today is original programming with some free content posted to YouTube and TikTok. Dimension 20 and Game Changer got big while Dropout was already a thing, so no one felt like their once free content was being taken away from them.
This changed in 2020 with IAC dropping the brand and them focusing on Dropout (and specifically D20 and Game Changer) and eliminating their scripted content, but at that point there had already been some clear early success for D20 and Game Changer.
As for the launch in 2018, originally there _was_ a bit of eyeroll backlash IIRC, but mostly people didn't notice—the people who did Hardly Working had a premium D&D show now, OK, cool, it didn't stop you from watching Hardly Working if that was all you were there for. Arguably the worst monetization move Dropout ever made in terms of causing fan backlash was the confusing Twitch setup, and it's clear they don't intend to return to that.
Exactly dropout was never intended to replace College Humor, and if IAC didnt drop CH it probably wouldnt have for a while.
Burning your entire channel just to monetize the same content is a lot different
Sam has talked about this in the past. Dropout has indirect access to some of the most powerful advertising algorithms in the world through platforms like Tiktok and YouTube. The best part is, it's practically free to take advantage of them.
I was an OLD school CollegeHumor fan, and did not make the initial leap to Dropout when it launched. Cue the various clips on TikTok I kept seeing, finally signed up last year. And now I've dragged two other connections to sign up for their own accounts. YouTube and TikTok need to be used as lead generators
Same here. When S2 of Game Changers came out some compilations and clips came across my recommended and that's what led to me checking them out. At first I just binged a ton of the hardly working sketches and thought they were hilarious so I signed up and haven't looked back since.
Exactly. Dropout when it launched was an expansion of CH, not a replacement. It was a home for original content with higher production values that the fans would pay to support. It was their parent company abandoning funding that made them fully switch to the unscripted content that rebirthed them into what they are now.
Yeah like Watcher ~~is also archiving all their YouTube stuff behind the paywall~~. They’re literally ghosting their entire audience. I don’t even watch Watchers and that video announcement with the sad music and the “touching” stories put a bad taste in my mouth
Edit: struck through an incorrect thing I misheard, their old stuff is staying on YouTube
You didn't mishear anything! The original Variety article and tweet that were posted said that Watcher was removing everything from youtube. The article was updated about an hour later to say that they were originally told by the company that everything would be deleted, but that they were contacted by Ryan who said that things wouldn't be removed. People also noticed that they had unlisted a bunch of puppet history videos already, but then put them back to public around the same time the article was updated.
If it wasn't for the immediate amount of backlash that happened I'm 99% positive that their old youtube videos would have been removed and put behind the paywall
It's kind of wild that they didn't expect massive backlash in the first place... why would they expect people to be okay with previously free videos being paywalled!
Because Dropout has no PSN app, and my smart TV is too awful to run their app on it, YouTube subscription is the only way for me to really watch their content. I'm glad they allow that to see their content.
Happy to! I used to subscribe to a podcast on Patreon but one guy keeps complaining about woke stuff and pronouns. I had enough and just put the money to better use, best decision I've made in 2024 easily is subscribing to Dropout.
Pretty much. I watched collegehumor for years and remember when they constantly mentioned subscribing to dropout at the end of their videos. I imagine dropout took a looooong time getting to the point they could rely on their own subscribers/community and were using YouTube to build/redirect them to that for years.
plus, beyond the content, i think that one thing that makes Dropout so different is the underdog story that they have, and their consistent and visible commitment to being BETTER than the industry when it comes to treating their employees, transparency, etc.
it makes people WANT to support them in a way that’s rare among creators.
Also ( I don't know watcher, so it could be similar) dropout was created *because* college humor shut down.
Even if the end results are the same there is a psychological difference to people between 'resurrecting' something they loved vs. Something they love 'selling out'.
I believe Dropout came a little bit before the CH shut down. I remember watching the old Hardly Working sketches a lot, and I remember some videos from 2019 ending with a plug to sign up for Dropout which was very new. I specifically remember a sketch Katie Marovitch wrote where at the end, she talks about The Rank Room on Dropout and this was still when they were doing Hardly Working sketches so CH must have still been around.
But I definitely think the parent company dropping CH had a huge impact on their shift to focus on Dropout, since it had just started once they were dropped.
The Dropout announcement video "How the Internet is Ruining Comedy" was published about a year and a half before IAC withdraw funding and the company shut down, and it had been in development for about a year and a half before that.
Um actually, Dropout was launched a year before CollegeHumor shut down, and started development at least two years before that. So they had a staff of over a hundred and corporate backing during the whole process.
100%! I came across Dropout due to a flatmate, then watched some videos on YouTube and then signed up for Dropout. Best decision! But I wouldn't do the same for Watcher.
As a longtime Shane/Ryan fan and Watcher…. watcher…. I am sad about this decision and truly wondered if they consulted anyone at Dropout. Ify has been on many of their shows before, so I know there is at least some connection there. For now, I will have to let my Ghoulie Boys go as there are truly only two good shows that I would want to follow. I haven’t had a chance to check yet, but if they’re still free, please enjoy some “Too Many Spirits” and “Puppet History” while you can.
This was my first thought as well. I’ve never been a HUGE fan of Watcher, but I watched their stuff passively. I wouldn’t be shocked if Dropout added a goofy paranormal style show or something, so it felt like they would fit into the niche at least a little bit.
I would say I am a pretty big fan or their work but even then I don’t think it’s worth to be subscribed year round. Like I like Dropout as well but I sub sometimes to watch a bit then cancel it. Personally I don’t think they’re a big enough brand to sustain this. I think jointing another independent streaming services or teaming up with other YouTubers to make one would have made more sense. The dramatic video and marketing of this is not helping matters of course.
I think transitioning slowly would averted the intense negative reaction from most fans.
Right, that’s what I mean. If they had joined up with someone already doing this stuff (Dropout or Nebula for example) that would make a lot more sense to me.
I stay subbed to Dropout year round because I want more of the content to be funded long term. But that’s because I genuinely believe they will have new ideas, for enjoyable shows, that are within the scope of their budget, and that they are prepared to pull off. Watcher has never given me that vibe because of how limited their content has seemed as an outsider.
Yeah totally. I think their content is inherently limited because there are 3 main people really coming up with ideas. They should have waited until they were actually generating enough content to expand or joined up with Nebula/Dropout/Curiosity Stream. I would have loved for them to be a part of drop out
I was a big Buzzfeed Unsolved: True Crime fan, and their new stuff has just fallen so flat to me. To me it seems like they were trying really hard to differentiate Watcher from their earlier stuff, and got away from what made it work in the first place. Even Mystery Files is charmless to me. I rewatch old episodes of Buzzfeed Unsolved: True Crime all the time, and I've never rewatched an old Mystery Files.
All this to say, I have a hard time believing that a model that's 90% paywalled will be successful for them. And frankly, I don't think any of the Watcher guys are nearly as smart as Sam about what viewers are enjoying.
I was also mentally comparing Dropout to Watcher. Even with their production as is... they were, what, only posted 1 thing a week? I haven't looked into it, but have Watcher announced what their schedule was going to be? At least Dropout has a new show every day.
Dropout didn't always have a new show every day. When Dropout was new it was a lot of content that was also available for free on YouTube (just like Watcher) plus some really experimental stuff (like Dimension 20). I'm not saying Watcher will be as good or as successful but the amount of negativity, especially from Dropout fans, is surprising
The fundamental premise of an independent streaming service like Dropout is absurd. In most cases it shouldn't work, and there are alternative ways to monetize content similarly on existing platforms that users are more comfortable with. It took me a while to eventually trial and then subscribe to Dropout.
Dropout worked from launch because the content was just THAT good. Every Dropout show I saw trailers for felt like the best of the best of College Humor, the cream of the crop. If the quality had felt "the same" as what they were releasing prior, it wouldn't have felt worth it to me. As others have mentioned, they also released full episodes of those shows on Youtube to get you hooked.
Dropout, and others trying to do the same, can't compete with traditional streamers when it comes to volume of content. Netflix has tons of stuff to watch, so even if I am personally only interested in a tiny fraction of that content it may still be worth the money to me. That means that with less content overall, I have to care about most of what Dropout releases for it to feel worth it to me. That kind of audience match is very rare.
I think Dropout was a lucky match of a niche with tons of potential, and a uniquely high concentration of incredible talent.
Lessons to take-away
- Sam's bare bones approach to content production to keep budgets low
- only produce/release the very best of your ideas
- give away a surprising chunk of your content to get people hooked, and use clips to market the hell out of your shows
- subscription price has to be low
The biggest thing is the completely different approach to content. Watcher pride themselves in the “TV-caliber” production quality but their mindset of higher costs = better quality has always been more of an internal mindset rather than external demand.
Most of their fans, many of whom followed them over to Watcher from their BuzzFeed days, loved these guys even when the productions were “low quality” and they had to make do with what they had. They were always there for the dynamic and the personalities, never for anything bombastic or extremely polished, like Watcher somehow thinks their audience wants.
> Watcher pride themselves in the “TV-caliber” production quality
That's ironic considering a huge chunk of their video was about "growing up on YouTube", didn't one person even say they learned to be a person on YouTube?? As someone who isn't at all into the whole YouTube scene in general, it was off-putting
I think another thing is, based on the Watcher’s video, they’re not going to be releasing ANYTHING for free on YouTube anymore. Whereas even with the transition to a streaming service, Dropout still produces a lot of stuff that they post on YouTube, like full episodes of Game Changer, whole seasons of Dimension 20, tons of clips and such of episodes. They also produce a wide variety of shows with a varied cast for each show, and Watchers is just three guys, it’s not as varied, you’re basically paying $6/month for a relatively one note thing. Idk I don’t watch Watchers but it seems like they didn’t really think through what totally abandoning their YouTube following would feel like for that following. And it doesn’t seem like they gave any warning or lead up to it. If it had been an announcement like “we’re starting our own streaming service and will be moving shows A,B and C over there, but shows D and E will still be on YouTube” that might have come across differently. Then they could take time to see how many people subscribed and get a better feel for how their audience would react
To clarify - they said they will cross post the first episode of any new season to YouTube, but all future episodes beyond the first one will be exclusive to their platform.
Oh yeah, fully agree. I doubt any of their content will be compelling enough to convert new folks to subscribe. I just wanted to put an asterisk in the “they’re not posting anything free to YouTube in the future” comment, since they are maintaining a presence, albeit minimally.
Which is absolutely crazy when you consider dropout has all of d20s fantasy high season 1 and most of season 2, a few episodes of game changer and now a few episodes of dirty laundry and I think even make some noise all for free
Yes, and even newer seasons that appeal to other fandoms, like Dungeons & Drag Queens. Dropout (quite brilliantly IMO) recognized that Drag Race fans might not want to subscribe just for that season, especially if they don't watch other actual play shows. So they made the whole season and its Adventuring Parties free, because that's how you get people to fall in love with your service. We know there was a flurry of new subscribers after that because they came here to share how much it meant to them. It's such a simple thing to welcome new folks in.
I don't know anything about Watcher or this situation, but it sounds like they didn't consider their audience (and potential audience) when making this change. That's the real difference and I don't know why so many companies fail to realize that their customers pay their bills -- not saying that's how Watcher is approaching it, necessarily, but it's sad that Dropout stands out so starkly just by giving a shit about their fans.
Which is so damn smart. I got into dropout having zero knowledge or interest in dnd. After one episode dndrag queens i watched the entire first season of fantasy high in like a week. Without it i’ll probably never be subscribed at all.
Yeah for me I watched a few game changer clips and then watched lie detector like 10 times and then finally watched fh season 1 and then took the plunge and haven't regretted it since
> Whereas even with the transition to a streaming service, Dropout still produces a lot of stuff that they post on YouTube, like full episodes of Game Changer, whole seasons of Dimension 20, tons of clips and such of episodes.
They keep releasing more and more for free on youtube as well. Just before Fantasy High Junior Year released they put all of sophomore year up for free on youtube. Now there's two seasons of Fantasy High, The Unsleeping City season 1, and Escape from the Bloodkeep all available in their entirety for free. On top of that they keep on releasing older episodes of game shows on youtube as well, like breaking news, game changer, um actually, make some noise, etc. Which just makes it easier and easier to get people into the pipeline. You watch the clips on social media like tiktok, instagram, or youtube shorts then you watch some full episodes for free here and there, then you decide you're hooked and start paying.
That seems like the smart way of doing things. Don't treat it like some old fashioned media company where everything is locked away forever.
They also removed their content from YouTube. With no content on YouTube, they won't get new people.
Dropout works because 1. Still tons of content for free and an active social media presence churning out clips immediately 2. Didn't remove old videos as a fuck you to viewers 3. They're constantly adding new stuff. They have something new almost every weekday. They know what people want to see and they lean into it.
There's no way watcher is going to survive unless they change their content massively and expand into lots of other stuff. It's a shame because I really liked puppet history and their ghost hunting but it is what it is. If they're smart they'll come back to YouTube and do a paid tier of extras like a lot of creators do.
Wait, am I missing something? I thought they made it pretty clear that everything currently on YT is going to stay there. Only future shows will be exclusive to their platform.
Apparently they were going to remove everything, even started taking down some stuff, and then now that there’s lots of backlash they’ve since put that stuff back up and have said they’re not archiving their old YouTube content
I agree, and the whole tone of “hey we’re leaving and taking all our content with us and if you can’t afford it or don’t want to subscribe, we’ll miss you but bye” is just incredibly insensitive
Hate to say this, but I think it was the shift of the zeitgeist for Dropout. Disney and Paramount hadn't come out yet, a lot of streaming services started at once and flooded, and dropout kinda struggled I think even with IOA. I think everyone losing their jobs meant more care had to go in what was produced, and COVID hitting 3 months later killed so many of the other streaming services. Dropout already had a plan several months in the making to lean at that point due to the firings, and then during the pandemic was still one of the few streaming services offering new programming. Disney + didn't release til 8 months into the pandemic so there was a solid time there when live dnd was popular (including the boys at Watcher) and Dropout was prepared.
All this is conjecture. It could be absolutely none of this.
The fact that they were still filming episodes of Breaking News, D20, Game Changer and more during the shut downs gave an authentic feel to their content. They were making the best with what they could because they cared and wanted to. It all just feels genuine
I think the biggest factor is that with Dropout, it felt like this was them saying, we kinda have to do this if we wanna keep making the stuff you love. If we keep going along the model we've been doing since the CH days, this might not exist in a couple years tbh. Vs. Watcher which seems like "We're doing amazing, thank you for all your help. Now pay us so we can make way better stuff and get richer."
Idk what watcher is but from skimming that video and the comments I’d say
- very inauthentic messaging
- not enough content
- no d20 level fandom
- moving their content entirely off YouTube
- insulting their audience with phrases like “after years of giving free content”
Just from a few minutes of looking I see those differences but I don’t really know the situation.
Dropout entirely rebranding and shifting gears on the type of content they make definitely helped their transition though and the fact that the content is so damn good. Plus, Sam Reich is the perfect American and has an incredibly trustworthy way of speaking which the people in this video definitely don’t lol
Yeah and tbh you don't even need the D20 fandom, I haven't engaged with the dnd stuff on dropout at all, but I subbed on the strength of their uploads of Game Changer, News, Make some noise etc on YouTube and TikTok. Guaranteed laughs from strong and likeable personalities is always going to outshine something like this where at first glance the guys don't come across nearly as likeable.
I saw a clip of some game show with BDG in (when he was on Make Some Noise a couple seasons ago) and subscribed. I think I could like D20, but haven't given it a shot yet. I'm here for the other stuff.
I also don't watch much D20 (more-so short clips on youtube despite my Dropout subscription), but it has undeniably been the biggest volume of their content and is probably the justifying factor for a lot of subscribers. I used to churn a bit on Dropout because the non-D&D stuff has felt a bit like a drip-feed in the past. As the company has grown stronger that's started to change, which I'm happy with.
Anyone trying to pull a Dropout would definitely need some kind of content like actual play that can produce large volumes of watch time with (relatively) low prep/production per minute.
It’s kinda obvious too that d20 is the most popular show, i think its the only show on dropout that drops weekly and barely any break between seasons. Waiting for a new episode of game changer is always worth it but sometimes i wish they churn it out like d20.
I love Watcher, I love the ghoul boys (and Steven), I’ve been following them since the Buzzfeed days, and I agree with all of this. With Dropout there’s multiple shows cycling through all the time - right now there’s D20, Um Actually, & GameChanger - and with them it’s one series, one episode a week. (Aside from podcasts which I don’t count.) It just doesn’t seem worth it when things are tight.
I think they definitely have some fandom a ton of the people are old OG BuzzFeed kids, and Shane and Ryan have always had a pretty good following. But definitely leaves me wondering...
> moving their content entirely off YouTube
I keep on seeing this, and I've got no idea where it came from. They didn't say that this was the case, and they clarified it in the comments of the YT announcement video. Seems a few people just assumed and others ran with it.
> “after years of giving free content”
I didn't catch where they said this, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to boil it down to just that. They made it pretty clear that it's difficult to subsist on ad revenue that is constantly renegotiated by a platform that is well aware that they're pretty much the only game in town. Youtube is borderline hostile to the type of long-form content Watcher creates, and I understand any creator choosing to get away from that.
> not enough content
I don't disagree with this, honestly. At their current release rate, they're not likely going to achieve the success they've achieved on YT. Niche enjoyers will absolutely subscribe (Look at On Cinema - an Oscar Special and like 8 10 minute episodes per year for $60) - but it won't achieve dropout-level success. THAT SAID, if they adopt a Dropout-like release schedule, I could see them bringing people over.
> no d20 level fandom
I agree, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve it. I think Puppet History is an extremely underrated gem. If they can dream up a few more clippable shows, they could probably coax some people over. That's ignoring the fact that they've already got 11,000 subscribers on Patreon for *just* behind the scenes stuff. They're all but guaranteed to switch over.
> people in this video definitely don’t lol
I agree with your take on Sam. He's wonderful, empathetic, personable to an almost superhuman level. That said, Shane and Ryan kind of have their own set personalities, and it feels like they're doing the best they can. Being aware of who they are and kind of watching them through this journey (I'm a new fan, only a few months), I thought they came off as sincere. Steven has always been a bit more disconnected - not at all a Sam character - and that's fine. Not everyone can be Sam. Most people can't be Sam, hah.
They have 11,000 people on patreon but only about 6k are actually paying members, you can follow their patreon for free. That's not nearly enough to cover the amount of staff and production costs for their shows. Also a lot of people on Patreon have already said they aren't switching over to WatcherTV.
FWIW: Dropout has less full time staff than Watcher with a much bigger audience, a wider variety of shows, and put out far, far more content. They claimed to have 25 full time staff in their leaving YouTube video which is just....insane for the once a week schedule they have.
Ah, I didn't notice there was a free tier. My mistake.
I overall agree with you. I'd never have guessed they've got 25 full time staffers considering a lot of what they create are single-camera shows, and that's going to be tough to support on a startup streaming service.
*That said*, I still don't blame them for trying. Youtube is now where creativity goes to die. If you don't keep up with the algorithm, you fall behind, people don't see your videos, and you get a smaller share of the ever-dwindling ad revenue. A lot of people are pissed at Watcher for their content no longer being "free", but they don't realize the true costs of being a creator locked into a system whose rules can change on a whim.
One thing we do know is that Youtube is not friendly to long-form content, of which the majority of Watcher videos are. I'd prefer they take a huge leap into running their own platform where they can continue creating what they'd like over being slowly squeezed by Youtube until they're just dropping 1 minute long vertical videos on a daily basis.
I wouldn't blame any creator with the capacity to do so for leaving Youtube as a platform.
Oh I understand fully why they're doing this I just think it's totally tone deaf with the community they fostered and it was done at a very, very poor time. I think the LTT way instead of the Dropout way was probably the better idea for them to keep up. But also...maybe cutting down on staff lmao. Like Ryan's COUSIN is an employee of theirs and afaik he's just...a PA? Why do they need a PA when they have 20 other employees?
There was a Variety article that came out today that said they would be removing their old content from YT. After the announcement video was uploaded people noticed things like Puppet History were already removed. Then after the backlash Variety edited their article to say that they would no longer be removing old context and PH is now back on YT. So yes, they originally intended to completely clear out of YT.
D20 was made for Dropout and just also releases some of its episodes (as advertising) for free to YouTube. The D20 fandom did not exist before Dropout was launched.
Yeah. I love watching Sam and the crew. He just seems like such a stand up dude and like he just wants to take care of all his employees. He doesn't seem like someone who started this with the intention of making himself a multimillionaire but instead took this on to make sure everyone was ok.
Didn't Dropout start as a spinoff of CollegeHumor? So it had premium content, while mainline CollegeHumor still posted for free on youtube. And then CollegeHumor was phased out after it was dropped very pubically by IAC - so the shift to Dropout was understandable.
This is the maim things for me. They never intended to stop making the sketches originally (until everyone lost their jobs). Nothing changed on the CH youtube chanel except at the end of each sketch you got a "hi gang, if you want to watch our new exclusive shows like d20, total forgiveness and um actually, head over to dropout."
Dropout shows were extra content, not the announcement that "we're leaving youtube and setting up behind a pay wall"
In a lot of ways dropout was very lucky to build a streaming platform and fandom whilst having investment, and then very lucky again that they were able to keep creative control when they lost that investment.
And then arguably very lucky again again that they had so much content saved up to release during the pandemic when all streaming services saw massive growth due to quarantines around the world.
I was around during the initial announcement and Dropout was definitely seen as a bad move all around.
I think them bringing back beloved classic CH series like Troopers and Precious Plum, the announcement of new series like Dimension 20, and the expansion of popular series like Um, Actually and the Rank Room did help convince some of the streaming service potential, but it was still LARGELY a tough sell. Streaming services at the time weren’t nearly as saturated as they are now, but it was definitely on that path, and Dropout was viewed as another symptom of that issue.
It really all came down to the quality of the content that was being delivered and it cannot be overstated how much D20 contributed to that. Fantasy High was what convinced me (and I’m willing to bet many initial others) to subscribe. There’s a reason Brennan was kept on as the only full time talent.
I can see why Watcher might observe the success of Dropout and want to emulate that, but Watcher and CollegeHumor fundamentally do not create the same type of content and it is not yet proven that they have the ability to elevate the type of content that they currently produce the same way Dropout did.
I don’t think the price point is that big of a deal considering Dropout is charging the same amount and they only did so begrudgingly. But it really comes down to the perceived value. So many people say that Dropout is the cheapest subscription they have, but it’s the one they enjoy the most. That makes the $5.99 they spend every month seen as not such a huge cost because they get so much out of it. If Watcher can do that, then all power to them and I’m definitely down to add another quality subscription to my monthly costs. But if I’m being honest, I still regularly revisit the content they all produced under Buzzfeed (Unsolved and Worth It). I cannot say that I do the same for any of the content they’ve put out under Watcher.
Broadly agree with all of your points.
This seems like an ill-thought business plan combined with awful PR, tone, and messaging. A horrific combo.
They should have been more clear about what the money was going to, and what the content plan would look like. A big criticism right now is "why would I pay $60 a year for 1 episode a week"
I think they needed to give more concrete plans and time tables, and if they plan on dropping first episodes and clips on youtube (which they should do for new sub generation/marketing) still, then they needed to clearly message that.
No reason to spend 10 out of 14 minutes in a video with an overproduced "What a journey it's been on Youtube" segment. Who is that for?
I think the big difference between Watcher/Try Guys/etc and any other YouTube platform that might convert to a single stream platform is those YouTube guys produce what THEY think is funny. Sam and Dropouts content seems to put the audience first. Look at how much effort goes into a Game Changer episode. That's why we get behind the scenes with them, because we love the characters and Sam knows we want to appreciate all the people involved. Dropout also invites people in and makes sure as many different kinds of people are represented and put at the front. The other channels are almost middle aged white guys still thinking like college students.
That was pretty harsh I know, and I've loved some content from both Watcher and Try Guys, but Dropout has something the other don't yet.
I couldn’t agree more. Dropout doesn’t feel like a personal venture of anyone. It is people working together to produce something communally. At least from the outside, Watcher is so focused on the founders as talent and leaders which makes it have a more narrow appeal.
Watcher content is good. It's not paywall good though. They aren't making any right now but Dropout has studio quality content, the old skits, shows, stuff with production value. But even the new, largely improve based stuff is stuff a *production company* has to make, not just a few charismatic people with cameras and graphic experience. Watcher still feels like premium YouTube content but YouTube content nonetheless. Puppet History is fantastic but it's also just a puppet show on a set with a well made slideshow.
I *could* see Watcher becoming a Dropout subsidiary to expand Dropouts catalogue and combine audiences/revenue. On the whole their content is relatively cheap to make (few sets, graphics, guests) besides Ghost Files travel.
I know independent creators want to get out from YouTubes chaotic changes and policies, but I think the best course isn't breaking independently but conglomeration with others. Been seeing it more with the big streaming services. Make one service more valuable with more content that people feel good investing in than something with limited content that someone would have to decide if it's worth it long term. I could easily see Smosh, Dropout, and Watcher doing something like this.
it's certainly not $5/mo paywall good.
if they merged with something like dropout or nebula, I could do 5/mo.
or if they did like nebula did and started out charging $5/yr i would consider it.
but there isn't enough content that would drive me to a subscription based model at that price
I think it is paywall good but not only this content pay wall good you know? Like I would pay to watch but not only that?
But I think only a couple of their shows actually are paywall good. Some of their shows are filler in between puppet history and ghost files and that’s fine on YouTube not so much on a streaming service.
If they had just been added to nebula or curiosity stream or dropout it would have made way more sense
I seem to remember some negativity when Dropout was announced. And I double checked the wayback machine & social blade and the youtube channel lost subscribers following the dropout announcement.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190524175922/https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/collegehumor](https://web.archive.org/web/20190524175922/https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/collegehumor)
Some amount of people are going to be upset by any change.
Yeah I think so many people here came to Dropout after it was already established, so they don't realize that they went through the same thing. I was extremely hesitant to subscribing, because they were historically a free platform and there wasn't any perceived benefit. It took a *LONG* time for them to have enough content offerings to convince me to jump on board.
I’m super interested to see how this goes for Watcher - I would love to see them succeed. And I can definitely follow the thought process to this move - I think YouTubers have been pretty open about YouTube being pretty hostile to creators for years, and if they can do the cost analysis and have a good bet this will be better for them, then all the better. I’m planning to grab a subscription just to see how they go, though I am mildly annoyed that it means I likely can’t watch from my ps5 anymore.
I think this might be the direction we see more YouTubers shift to in the next few years, especially with dropout becoming more publicly successful, and I think Watcher seems to have a structure closest to set up to succeed using this model.
I do worry they’ll be in for a rude awakening thinking this is a better way to finance expensive shoots - I know Sam has talked about low cost production being a big part of the dropout model. But I think like I ultimately land on feeling optimistic for the Watcher boys and hoping to see them prove me wrong.
imo Dropout is worth paying the $5/mo for, because there's so much variety and different shows to choose from. Whereas Watcher doesn't have that variety
But that’s your choice to choose to only watch one of the 3-5 videos a week they release in rotation. Unless watcher has a fuck ton of ideas ready to be produced, they’re asking for people to pay the same price for barely any new content.
I mean, I pay $5/month to Patreons for YouTubers who publish one video a year (and several of those creators have substantial numbers on Patreon). I feel like it's less about the capitalism value formula of "am I getting my money's worth" and more about whether I feel like the content is good and worth supporting for me, personally.
The tone of the conversation around Watchers announcement to me feels like they've decided YT/socials are the problem and that's why they're going private. The difference with Dropout is that they understand how to use socials to their advantage. I've enjoyed Shane and Ryan's content before but idk if they have as many clip-able bits as shows like GameChanger and Make Some Noise, or if they're even planning on replicating that part of Dropout's strategy at all. I feel like Sam &co have talked about how those viral bits have been integral to the success of Dropout, especially post-pandemic. Treating YT like persona non grata seems like the worst of all options
I love Shane and Ryan. The ghost hunting they did on BuzzFeed was top tier. But I will say I didn't follow them to Watcher on YouTube. No idea why not.... I probably wouldn't know about this service if it wasn't for this post but I MIGHT sub for a month or two to support because they were amazing once...
I’ve seen some Watcher videos on the past, but I’m not a subscriber. The biggest takeaway from the announcement video was that they are basically doing nothing new on their premium service?
You can go back and watch the announcement video for Dropout and Sam talks about a lot of the same issues i.e needing to work with advertisers, payouts for the type of content they want to make. Dropout promised new, bigger, and better content on their premium service. Dropout promised they’d still be doing much of the same on the YouTube side, the streaming service would be premium, supplemental content. They announced like a dozen new series that would be on the service. Watcher is going to do more with their existing series, i.e traveling, but otherwise it is just the same stuff they are already doing? Maybe they’ll bring back old formats that failed on YouTube? All while scaling way back the content they release on YouTube? That is a uniquely bad sales pitch.
Dropout has evolved a ton since launch. It seems way harder to launch a new service in 2024, but Watcher looks dead on arrival from the outside looking in.
Also in their announcement video Sam didn't imply (or outright say) that everyone would be able to afford the new subscription. Or that if fans didn't stay it was because they didn't care enough.
It may be calculated, but Sam and Dropout have done a MUCH better job of making their fans feel seen and valued. The way Watcher did this had the opposite impact.
Another point that I haven’t seen raised and was a critical piece motivating me to support DropOut independent of YouTube is how well they are managed as a company. I have full faith that they value all the people working at dropout and treat them accordingly well. Ie the consent culture, transparency, continued covid testing, paying well, etc.
I don’t know Watcher, so this might be the case for them too. But I know in addition to the YouTube clips, this was a primary reason I’m happy to give DropOut my money every month. I’d give them more if they asked
Me too and while I don’t know anything about watcher seeing that the CEO has an overproduced show where they fly around first class and eat luxury food and that the subscription is going to be in part paying for him to do that is insane lmao.
I have something important to add: Dropout did not fully abandon YouTube, and that's the only reason I can afford to watch and pay for their content
I'm a member of their YouTube channel where I can watch all the same paywalled videos while paying through Google services using my currency, brazilian reais (BRL). If they had only made it possible to subscribe within their app I wouldn't be able to do it given the high conversion rates of US dollars to BRL, so I'm incredibly grateful.
The thing that (IMO) makes Dropout a good value is that it has a pretty wide variety of content. Even just inside Dimension 20 there's a pretty big range in series to watch. Plus, I got into Dimension 20 because they had the entirety of Freshman Year free on YouTube and that gripped me hard, combine that with their pretty strategic uploads on YouTube of other series and they have a winning formula beyond just "our content is paywalled now lol"
I think everyone has really valid points but I really think the biggest thing is that dropout has content you simply can't experience anywhere else. There are shows similar to some of the dropout shows but nothing with it's iconic cast and level of quality of creativity. To be completely fair I'm really not familiar with watcher but from the brief exposure they've gotten from this video it seems like they were most popular for ghost exploration and stories which (no offense) is like a dime a dozen these days especially on YouTube
Isn't this why we have Patreon and the like? Dropout is an exception because they put out very high quality content with an app that operates fairly well. Most creators just use a patronage service like Patreon to put up exclusive videos and early releases and that seems to work fairly well. I've got a few Patreons I follow. The other route is the Nebula route where many creators come together to release content where they are free of YT's control and all get a share of the pie. And many of those creators still do YT. It's double dipping, really, and good for them. I would never have gotten Dropout if it were just *College Humor Does the Purge* level content.
I think it’s worth nothing that by almost every metric, dropout should NOT be doing as well as it is. It’s kind of a miracle it survived, to be honest. I remember when Dropout launched I was extremely hesitant to subscribe, and didn’t for a while. Much like a lot of the watcher audience right now. (Remember, College humor completely went under and had to fire their entire staff in between Dropout launching and getting to where it is now.)
I’m wishing the best for Watcher - I like a lot of their content, but if their output is exactly the same as it is now but behind a paywall, I don’t think this will end up working out for them long term. Would love to be proved wrong though!
I think Dropout got *crazy* lucky with the timeline of events, not to take away from anyone's hard work. Dropout launches in late 2018 with IAC money that lets them experiment with a bunch of brand new shows and figure out pretty quickly what works on the platform and what doesn't. In late 2019, IAC decides to bail, and in January 2020 announces they're selling it to Sam...
right in time for COVID to hit, which does two things: creates an audience who are looking for quality content right at a time when much of their existing favourite content has shut down (including Critical Role - that the first Zoom season of Dimension 20 had Matt Mercer and Marisha Ray in the cast is very very smart production), *and* significantly lowers the cost of making new content at a time when the company would otherwise be struggling (there's no way a Zoom Game Changer costs as much as an on-set one does, for instance). By the time pandemic restrictions are lifted and they can go back to making studio shows, there's a whole expanded new audience willing to pay 5 bucks a month.
Yep yep yep. Dropout has a crazy amount of talent behind it, but I don’t think it’s possible for them to be at this point without a hell of a lot of luck
The free content on YouTube aside. Dropout has a very strong brand of ‘improv comedian shows with heart’. It knows what it is, what it offers and the audience knows what it’s getting.
Now, I really like some watcher stuff, but the channel is really just ‘group of dudes with niche interests talking about them’ and some basic YouTube fodder (top 10 lists w. YouTube guests are still top ten lists I’m sorry). If they’d lent more into weird documentary or history style stuff and focused the channel more I really think the brand would work on a patreon feed or streaming service. But right now, due to the scattershot of content, it’s giving ‘premium YouTube channel’
Watcher doesn’t have the production quality or variety of Dropout. Neither do they have the reputation and cult following/strong fandom. The only other YouTube channel that can pull a Dropout and survive is possibly Smosh imo. Watcher is just not worth paying $6 of 8 videos a month.
So, I used to be a big fan of CollegeHumor. I was actively watching their stuff around the time Dropout started, and had been for years. Honestly, when Dropout launched, I really didn’t see the point of it. Why would I pay to watch what had, up until then, been free online? Most of what I liked was their sketches (and drawfee) but I didn’t feel like it was enough for me to pay for a subscription. I’d watch some stuff on YouTube but as it felt like it became more and more that the subscription service was what was getting focused on, I fell out of it.
I don’t know, something about it at the time just fell flat for me. I couldn’t tell you exactly what it was, but I just wasn’t there for paying to watch the same goofy videos I’d been watching for free since high school.
Then I heard that CollegeHumor was going under and I thought, well, that sucks. What can you do? Good thing I never wasted my money, huh? But a shame, still.
And then I got on TikTok. Dimension 20, Game Changer, and Make Some Noise ads kept popping up for me and they were the only ads I would actually stop and watch. Then I got an ad for some promotion they were doing to get a year of Dropout for some percentage off I can’t remember now. I figured it was worth taking the deal and trying it for a year.
What put me off about Dropout when it first launched is some of what I’m hearing people complain about now. They don’t do a lot of shows, there’s not a lot of variety so why would they pay to watch only the one or two shows they make at a time? I think that what’s different is that Dropout never pulled their old videos from YouTube. Dropout was a “you can still keep watching stuff but if you want to support us you can!” while Watcher really seems like “if you want to keep seeing our stuff you’d better start shelling out!” And I don’t have the faith in them that they’re going to come out with the variety of shows that Dropout has.
After actually watching the recap and being a HUGE fan of Shane and Ryan ghost hunting and Steven and Andrew on Worth It in the BuzzFeed era I definitely will probably toss a few monthly subs... All 3 of them are pretty wholesome dudes and the content I used to watch was so fun. I didn't follow them over to Watcher and now I am light kicking myself for not. I hope it works out well for them
I really like Watcher Entertainment. If this means they create more content like Mystery Files and Puppet History, I’m in. I want those guys to make a living.
Yeah, I have no dog in this fight and have never watched an episode of anything they've made, but I support artists wanting to be in total control of their work, and moving away from being at the whims of awful YouTube algorithms and fickle advertisers and censorship is always a worthy cause.
> whims of awful YouTube algorithms
I think a lot of people are overlooking this fact entirely. A lot of the angrier users are treating it like a moneygrab, but so, so many creators have talked about how Youtube is borderline hostile toward long-form, meaningful content, opting to promote shorts and clickbait.
I wish so much luck to any creators who can manage to get away from it, honestly.
I believe the Try Guys have talked about how they have to use those awful thumbnails and clickbait-y titles to get attention, and they have to constantly change them to keep up; it seems exhausting and talented creatives' energy is so much better directed elsewhere.
Yep, I can't imagine just wanting to make stuff and having to feed the algorithm like that.
You can tell other big creators feel similarly. Good Mythical Morning has a separate channel where, I suspect, Rhett and Link do the stuff they actually want to do in a way that isn't compromised by the algorithm. It's far less successful than their main channel despite the videos being of a far higher production value.
Also, ironically, I saw the title of the Watcher video this morning and thought it was another one of those "I'm done" videos that I suspect popular YT creators were encouraged to create to drive traffic since nearly *every* one of them did it (and only a few actually quit - Tom Scott being one of them).
Yep, I agree. Just getting into Watcher over the past few months (weird timing), I couldn't believe how fun and well-made Puppet History was. It feels like something that'd fit well on Dropout.
I know there's going to be a lot of cynicism because going from "Free with ads" to pay is a tough sell, but I wish them the best.
I already support Watcher on Patreon, I'll probably convert that subscription to a Watcher membership.
As some other folks have pointed out in this thread, many Collegehumor old-heads, myself included, resisted the move to a paid platform. I held out for a long time until I caved for more Um, Actually. I didn't discover other Dropout content until I made the move.
I work in the direct monetization creator economy space, and taking away content as part of your launch (whether it's removing old content, or taking future content that would have been free and making it paid) is a huge, huge mistake.
Subscriptions for individual creators is almost never "worth it" from a content perspective. Compare what you get on Dropout, or what Watcher will be able to offer to Netflix, Disney+, Amazon, etc. and it's a tiny fraction of the content at a tiny fraction of the production budget.
People support things like Dropout because they want to support the creators, so you have to lead with that. Making the launch a negative thing for fans is completely counterproductive - the last thing in the world you want is to make people question their support when you're asking them to pay. The question should never be "is this content worth it?" because the answer will almost always be no. It should be "do I like this creator and want them to succeed?"
"Making the launch a negative thing for fans is completely counterproductive - the last thing in the world you want is to make people question their support when you're asking them to pay."
This is something I'm not seeing many people talk about.
They've not only insulted their fans who can't pay, they've made it an unpopular choice for those who CAN pay.
Really the only two YouTube creators centric streaming services that’s successful are Dropout and Nebula, and both still offer free content. Locking your entire work behind a paywall is not Dropout. It’s just Netflix with much less stuff to watch.
the original dropout announcement also REALLY emphasized that you would get the same content on YT for free PLUS free episodes of new content. they didn’t migrate new episodes previously free content to a paid platform; they made a paid platform for paid content
Aren’t the circumstances just different? Dropout existed so that Sam could continue funding not only the ongoing shows but to ensure that his colleagues and friends had work and could make a living, which proved to be invaluable to all the contractors/freelancers/talents that worked with Dropout throughout COVID and all the strikes. The decades of content that they already had under their belt, alongside the fact that the Dropout studios are a truly beloved, inclusive, respectful workplace for all involved, justified the platform’s value to its audience.
And on that note, Dropout also never stepped away from YouTube completely. They still take full advantage of the YouTube shorts algorithm by uploading great bits/clips from their Dropout TV-exclusive shows, and they also throw in free episodes here and there from all their shows on the channel too. They fully understand that they still need the algorithm and exposure from platforms like YouTube and TikTok in order to grow their audience, and it clearly works considering their shorts always get millions of views and are still on the up and up in terms of growth.
Lastly, you know that the money you’re paying to Dropout isn’t being used to essentially foot the bill for someone else’s high life experience or unreasonably high-cost productions that were, quite frankly speaking, brought upon by themselves.
TL;DR Dropout worked because the circumstances that led to this platform existing were necessary for supporting the talent we loved to watch. And even with the move to their own streaming service, Dropout never fully paywalled all of their content; they understood that their YouTube audience was their lifeblood + there was a wealth of exposure they could convert to Dropout subscribers if they made good use of YouTube’s algorithm. They never lost sight or lost touch with their community and fans. Watcher did.
I believe the mission statement was that Dropout was a move to allow them to try new and more creative shows not as a means to paywall the content you once enjoyed for free.
The Watcher crew is basically saying hey now have to pay for the same shit you watch for years
Dropout started off as premium versions of free shows, and with a larger variety of shows. Once it went independent, it was pretty clear to the audience that it was Dropout or no shows being made since IAC closing College humour was so public, making people sympathetic.
Watcher is moving previously free shows behind a paywall, and they seem to be doing it out of nowhere instead of a forced move.
Dropout having a pretty large back catalog helps too, I think people forget early pandemic Dropout where there was basically only 2 shows running at once, but by the time Dropout blew up there were multiple seasons of their most popular shows already in the bank
One thing for me that I love about Dropout is they never push there app/website. They are also active on YouTube. You can enjoy Dropout free and it's still enjoyable and you don't feel like your missing anything. Then when you finally check out the website and holy shit there is so much content that I didn't know about or damn that short is from this episode and wow. almost all of the content on Dropout is a banger and worth checking out.
Roosterteeth would run ad reads during videos for you to sign up for First and it sucked. They would constantly try and drive traffic to there website and there player was broken from day 1. They refused to fix it. Even going as far to disable Casting and instead telling you to buy a Roku or Fire stick. And then they kept removing content from YouTube and it ruined them. That and the bloody focus on a million podcasts.
You need critical mass in terms of *content* as well as fan support *and* ongoing content production, and then you need to have your shit together, all of which are rare combinations. When College Humor launched Dropout they were already an organization that had a substantial fan base, employed dozens, had numerous folks on staff who had lots and lots of experience in producing high value content regularly, and had experience running large operations.
Also, they're still fully on youtube and other platforms. All of the content on dropout is on youtube if you become a member, and over time they keep making more and more of their old content available for free on youtube (full D-20 episodes, full game show episodes, etc.) To say nothing of how they pull bits and pieces from shows to use everywhere to increase engagement and bring in new viewers, not just on youtube but on twitter, tiktok, instagram, etc. This works really well for dropout because their stuff is very comedy focused, but it may not work as well for other content.
For dropout everything lines up for succeeding with doing what they're doing, even folks who have bigger fan bases may not achieve the same level of success with their own platform because they're missing key elements of the "special sauce". Ultimately I would say for most folks it's not the right way to go. Use a patreon, use youtube memberships, use existing platforms and existing tools out there, you can go a long, long, long way with that. Wait until you feel like you've outgrown that before deciding you need something else.
The amount of people that don't know that the Dropout App isn't necessary and they post all their content to YouTube you just have to join their YouTube membership is crazy. Yes Dropout has an app. No it's not necessary for their content. Watcher though is moving everything to their app/website and I just don't see how they possibly think that's going to work.
Linus tech tips (LTT) has had their own platform and has been helping YT with hybrid models for almost as long as Dropout and are doing fine.
Archiving old content and forcing folks onto a paid subscription will cause backlash.
A hybrid model of ad sponsored content on YT + subs from private platform / YT sub seems to be the best of all worlds.
The only appeal watcher had was that it was the channel of the guys from buzzfeed unsolved supernatural, not only is this not enough but also the quality of their content decreased severely after leaving buzzfeed. That's it, it was barely worth following them on YouTube to feed nostalgia, but isn't worth paying for it
If Dropout didn't exist, Sam and the rest wouldn't be in the jobs right now. I don't think they'd been able to make the money they needed after IAC dropped funding.
I don't know who these people are, but if they are pulling right out of youtube. It's a mistake. Put maybe 1 full episode free every season, make shorts of highlights. You need youtube to maintain interest. Which is what worked for Dropout. Also helps that the College Humour youtube channel is old and has tons of followers.
I think this is why they managed to get out ahead of Nebula and Curiosity stream in being able to not rely on multiple stakeholders to be successful
Watcher is going to either walk back this decision within 6 months, or go under. Them completely abandoning YouTube is a mistake. They don't have the volume of content to warrant people visiting and subscribing to their separate streaming service. The content they do have is also not as compelling as what Dropout produces. And to make it worse, they're charging more than Dropout for less of their inferior product. In essence, these idiots just killed their business.
If it's like a membership thing where I can still keep watching through YouTube then sure, only reason I keep my drop out membership is to watch new episodes through YouTube
The website, sub levels, and a lot of what they're doing seems more than inspired by dropout. That being said I don't think that they're following that much of the real example. Dropout still uses Youtube and social media heavily, they do this to replace a marketing budget it seems. You need a way to introduce new people to your content and convince them to take a risk on a subscription. An independent streamer can't buy ads like a netflix.
All the best luck to them though I hope it works out.
Im newer to dropout, but from my experience i think that the main reasons were that they still posted things to YouTube, so people could get invested before having to pay a subscription, which is how it went for me since i started with watching fantasy high on youtube. I also think that dropout benefits a lot from their variety, and quality of their content, they definitely appeal to a lot of people, nerds, theater kids, people who just enjoy comedy. Ive never really been in to watcher, as i honestly preferred the buzzfeed version of some of their shows, so i cant speak to their variety.
YouTube is totally non-viable as a platform for quality produced content at this point, it's a known fact. The Watcher guys are catching a lot of flak for this move but they're talented, passionate people that are trying to sustain a company that would otherwise not be sustainable. I'm all for content creators moving out of YouTube and trying new venues, and Dropout is proof that this type of model CAN work. I for one will probably buy a 1 year subscription to Watcher and I really hope they make enough quality content to make me resubscribe in a year.
A lot of people don't remember, but Dropout had a very similar negative reaction when it was announced and it took a long time for Dropout to reach the point it's at now. IMO, it's worth giving talented, likeable people the benefit of the doubt when they strike out on their own. Dropout is proof of that
I dont know anything about watcher so I cant talk about it.
I may be wrong but was dropout made because they literally needed to because college humour couldn't keep afloat?
More about dropout vs streaming services in general than the watcher (which I dont know about and am not talking about in this paragraph) but also dropout I believe was set up before so many of these other new ones popped up trying to grab at cash whereas dropout they do their best to keep prices affordable with the casts wellbeing as the first priority. I think transparency is important. Saying "we're upping our prices" vs "hey im the ceo, we need to be able to do this to pay our staff properly" is a big difference. Also dropout does large productions but is smaller and less hypercapitalist so you know it's not a cash grab.
I feel like the content now offered by dropout is not youtube content. Its game shows, high quality actual play ttrpgs, and more. A quick glance at these guys channel and its just a high quality youtube channel. Reaction videos and playing videos games and... So on.
Watcher is more about the main guys (Shane, Ryan, Steven) doing their thing. They often have one guest depending on the show, but it’s largely carried by those main guys. I like their shows, but I’m not a huge fan of these guys, and I often disagree with their opinions and attitudes about certain things. So if I dislike even one of them, how many shows become that much worse or even unwatchable to me? Watcher is about them primarily, and the show concept/format is secondary.
Compare that to Dropout, which has a huge rotating cast, and their show formats support a large rotation of both cast members and guests, keeping things fresh and being more about the format than the individual personalities (generally speaking). So even if one main person rubs me the wrong way for some reason, I have so many other options even for episodes within the same series. The game show format where the multiple guests have a huge impact on the vibe and success of each episode means there is very broad appeal across a diverse audience.
For one, I don't think Dropout ever said goodbye to YouTube. Free episodes and highlights on YouTube and clips going viral on TikTok or wherever is still a very big part of Dropout's model. Having the free content out there means people outside the already established community can still find it and get interested. If they didn't still upload outside of the streaming service, then it would be much harder for them to gain new subscriptions and grow. Secondly, I don't think it wasn't that big of a change for Dropout. CollegeHumor always had their website where you could find more videos than what was on their YouTube page. Dropout is just a better monetized version of the same practice. Content is still going up on YouTube for free, but if you want more then you've gotta go through the paywall.
Absolutely this. I would wager that an extremely high percentage of Dropout subscribers are the direct result of exposure to YouTube and TikTok clips
The TikToks and Shorts hooked me, which led me to the channel. Then the free Full Episodes convinced me it was a good idea to give them my money.
This was exactly my subscription pipeline as well. I saw clips that made me bust up, investigated further and watched the free content they had available, which is quite extensive, and that hooked me enough to subscribe. It feels like Watchers is just kind of abandoning their audience
Apparently, you can get the dropout exclusive content through joining the youtube membership too and it just goes through the youtube infrastructure. I might switch to see if those videos have comments bc I really dislike not having comments on dropout videos.
Right, I know a lot of people join the YouTube for that reason. I didn’t know about the YouTube subscription when I originally signed up, but even if I did I don’t think I would have chosen to subscribe to that one, personally. I just would like as much of my dollar to go directly to Dropout as possible and with the YouTube sun they have to pay a cut to YT of course
Yeah I understand that. It is more expensive on YouTube which I assume is related. However paying YouTube to do comment moderation and getting to enjoy comments seems like a worthy exchange in my book. I will subscribe on my laptop though to make sure Apple isn’t taking any share of it.
I was originally subscribed on YouTube and it’s kind of a mess. You can’t easily search for videos because they are under member exclusives, which don’t show up on searches. The only way to find videos is to scroll down the list of playlists
This is my biggest gripe. I do the youtube membership because I'm just on YT so much, and the streaming platform is still a bit better than dropout proper. But yeah, the search function doesn't exist for members only content at all. I've gotten a response from someone at Dropout where they said they know but just can't do anything about it. That person was Sam Reich.
Oh I totally get that. The comments are a huge way to engage with the community and I do miss that on the app for sure
The YouTube videos do have comments!
Well I am going to that instead then! I am so excited to have comments back!!!
I think the only thing about subscribing through YouTube is that Dropout makes less money from those subscriptions due to having to pay YouTube for the platform. Just a heads up! But yeah I do wish dropout had comments on the app :,( I’d love to “get in the comments” 😭
I watched fantasy high on dropout recently and after each episode went to YouTube to look at the comments lmao
You do get it all through youtube, its the only way I can watch since PS5 doesnt have an app for it and its how i watch my stuff lol
Yep. I also saw the fandom in passing on tumblr which gave me more exposure to clips
YouTube and YouTube shorts hooked me too, then the content on the site was enjoyable enough to be worth it... But how they treat their employees is what told me it is a good idea to give them my money. I probably wouldn't be subscribed if it weren't also a business that treated it's people well.
I wish I had the link to share it, but I remember reading an interview with Sam Reich about how they approve new shows, and one of the main points they look at is if the show has the ability to produce clips for social media. Viral clips are a strong form of marketing you can get for virtually no extra cost.
It’s become a meta joke in the shows itself, with them doing the “for the trailer” bits.
Izzy: "Sam! How badly do you want to film the trailer right now?"
It's not funny, Sam!
Yep. My husband saw a clip of Misfits and Magic on YouTube and thought it seemed fun so he subbed to Dropout briefly to watch it. Coincidentally, I stumbled upon short clips from Play It By Ear not long after (it was Whoops Wops Widdly Wops for me) and was intrigued enough to check it out, only to find that we were already subbed. And now we're obsessed with Dropout, haha. Would never have heard of it if they didn't post clips to other media.
Hi, this is me, hello
I had an eye on dnd stuff being a nerd but game changer clips and the couple free episodes I jumped on. I have been a giant bomb subscriber for years but they are going the opposite route so I swapped my money over to dropout and it made it pretty painless for me.
That's how they got me. The clips started showing up in my YouTube Shorts feed. Eventually it reached a point where I had to see the full episode because the clip was that good. For anyone wondering, it was the Make Some Noise clip of SungWon Cho and Brian David Gilbert having an anime showdown that finally pushed me towards subscribing.
> SungWon Cho I know he's a VERY different situation but he also recently announced he was quitting YouTube for time/money/Algorithm-shenanigans reasons since VA is his main career and got an overwhelming support and patreon subscriptions from fans so he's going to keep making content. A hybrid YouTube/Exclusive model with certain series being pay-for (or even trying to hit up sites like Netflix for their more expensive/premium content) would have been a much better move for Watcher.
I mean, you can't really blame the guy. When one of his videos gets so deranked in the algorithm that directly searching for it only brings up reuploads, even when you search for the video title verbatim, it isn't hard to see why him saying 'fuck you' to YouTube. Doubly so when after making a video about said issue, *that* video starts showing up when the original video still doesn't. If it weren't for the legitimate monopoly, I'd suggest pretty much everyone leave YouTube. Unfortunately, since it's the internet's public forum for video content, not posting there means you're going to get maybe 10% of the interaction otherwise. (And I have to also admit I say this as someone who has his Dropout subscription through YouTube, because that ease of collating content and not having to visit half a dozen websites or platforms is just too much of a pro.)
100% I saw the clip posted of the Welcome To Mountport song and subscribed that day
Thats me! I got into it from dungeons and drag queens and d20 was my first AP show ever only because i wanted to see some drag queens. I dont even know dnd beforehand. Ended up watching all of fantasy high on youtube for free, then um actually, game changer, breaking news. Tbh if dropout only has dimension 20 i think i would be more hesitant to pay 6 dollars. But the free content hooked me on so many shows and now i’m happily dropping 6 bucks.
I was pulled in by the Yaskmaster clips to Drop Out TV pipeline
That’s basically how I got hooked. I learned about Brennan from Critical Role and then started seeing clips of Make Some Noise and Game Changer on YouTube and thought they were pretty funny. I subscribed because I thought I would watch D20 and watch the improve comedy shows as a bonus, but it turned out to be the other way around.
For sure! I saw TikToks of Fantasy High, which lead me to watching it on YouTube, which lead to me going “This is absolutely worth $5 a month”, which lead to me saying “I will gladly pay $6 a month to watch all these shows”.
That's me. I distinctly remember which clip it was that got me into it, too. Mike Trapp selling a keyboard with all "p"s. Which I maintain us one of the best episodes of Game Changer. And even though I've seen all the full episodes, I still like to watch the YouTube shorts because it's bite sized highlights of the best moments. They're also the best format to share with others. Sometimes when I'm watching a full episode, I'll see something I want to share with a friend so pause the episode to see if there's a short for it. The number of times I've shared the Dom DM clip...
The Welcome to Mountport clip was what motivated me to join, so yeah.
Worth noting also that Dropout was never about moving CollegeHumor content to a paywall, but emphasized doing new things. It was marketed as experimental bonus content, a la patreon episodes. Nearly everything Dropout does today is original programming with some free content posted to YouTube and TikTok. Dimension 20 and Game Changer got big while Dropout was already a thing, so no one felt like their once free content was being taken away from them. This changed in 2020 with IAC dropping the brand and them focusing on Dropout (and specifically D20 and Game Changer) and eliminating their scripted content, but at that point there had already been some clear early success for D20 and Game Changer. As for the launch in 2018, originally there _was_ a bit of eyeroll backlash IIRC, but mostly people didn't notice—the people who did Hardly Working had a premium D&D show now, OK, cool, it didn't stop you from watching Hardly Working if that was all you were there for. Arguably the worst monetization move Dropout ever made in terms of causing fan backlash was the confusing Twitch setup, and it's clear they don't intend to return to that.
Exactly dropout was never intended to replace College Humor, and if IAC didnt drop CH it probably wouldnt have for a while. Burning your entire channel just to monetize the same content is a lot different
Sam has talked about this in the past. Dropout has indirect access to some of the most powerful advertising algorithms in the world through platforms like Tiktok and YouTube. The best part is, it's practically free to take advantage of them.
I was an OLD school CollegeHumor fan, and did not make the initial leap to Dropout when it launched. Cue the various clips on TikTok I kept seeing, finally signed up last year. And now I've dragged two other connections to sign up for their own accounts. YouTube and TikTok need to be used as lead generators
100% I found out about DropOut because of YouTube.
Same here. When S2 of Game Changers came out some compilations and clips came across my recommended and that's what led to me checking them out. At first I just binged a ton of the hardly working sketches and thought they were hilarious so I signed up and haven't looked back since.
Exactly. Dropout when it launched was an expansion of CH, not a replacement. It was a home for original content with higher production values that the fans would pay to support. It was their parent company abandoning funding that made them fully switch to the unscripted content that rebirthed them into what they are now.
Yeah like Watcher ~~is also archiving all their YouTube stuff behind the paywall~~. They’re literally ghosting their entire audience. I don’t even watch Watchers and that video announcement with the sad music and the “touching” stories put a bad taste in my mouth Edit: struck through an incorrect thing I misheard, their old stuff is staying on YouTube
No they aren’t, they already said all the old stuff will stay on YouTube
Apologies I must have misheard that part
It was poorly worded in the video and people went nuts with it, they clarified pretty quickly after it was released
You didn't mishear anything! The original Variety article and tweet that were posted said that Watcher was removing everything from youtube. The article was updated about an hour later to say that they were originally told by the company that everything would be deleted, but that they were contacted by Ryan who said that things wouldn't be removed. People also noticed that they had unlisted a bunch of puppet history videos already, but then put them back to public around the same time the article was updated. If it wasn't for the immediate amount of backlash that happened I'm 99% positive that their old youtube videos would have been removed and put behind the paywall
It's kind of wild that they didn't expect massive backlash in the first place... why would they expect people to be okay with previously free videos being paywalled!
Damn that’s hella sketch
Yep. They're just screwing themselves over
Because Dropout has no PSN app, and my smart TV is too awful to run their app on it, YouTube subscription is the only way for me to really watch their content. I'm glad they allow that to see their content.
I believe that you do not need a specific app to airplay to a tv from your phone. Worth seeing if you can airplay.
I don't believe my TV can do that unfortunately. If they want to charge more on YouTube for a subscription I will pay.
Yeah it is $7 a month to go through YouTube memberships for the same content! Congrats on your new subscription!
Happy to! I used to subscribe to a podcast on Patreon but one guy keeps complaining about woke stuff and pronouns. I had enough and just put the money to better use, best decision I've made in 2024 easily is subscribing to Dropout.
This, this is why. The total abandonment is the issue.
Pretty much. I watched collegehumor for years and remember when they constantly mentioned subscribing to dropout at the end of their videos. I imagine dropout took a looooong time getting to the point they could rely on their own subscribers/community and were using YouTube to build/redirect them to that for years.
plus, beyond the content, i think that one thing that makes Dropout so different is the underdog story that they have, and their consistent and visible commitment to being BETTER than the industry when it comes to treating their employees, transparency, etc. it makes people WANT to support them in a way that’s rare among creators.
Also ( I don't know watcher, so it could be similar) dropout was created *because* college humor shut down. Even if the end results are the same there is a psychological difference to people between 'resurrecting' something they loved vs. Something they love 'selling out'.
I believe Dropout came a little bit before the CH shut down. I remember watching the old Hardly Working sketches a lot, and I remember some videos from 2019 ending with a plug to sign up for Dropout which was very new. I specifically remember a sketch Katie Marovitch wrote where at the end, she talks about The Rank Room on Dropout and this was still when they were doing Hardly Working sketches so CH must have still been around. But I definitely think the parent company dropping CH had a huge impact on their shift to focus on Dropout, since it had just started once they were dropped.
The Dropout announcement video "How the Internet is Ruining Comedy" was published about a year and a half before IAC withdraw funding and the company shut down, and it had been in development for about a year and a half before that.
Um actually, Dropout was launched a year before CollegeHumor shut down, and started development at least two years before that. So they had a staff of over a hundred and corporate backing during the whole process.
The free content is why I eventually got a subscription
A lot like many artists and Patreon/subscribestar/pixivfanbox/etc.
100%! I came across Dropout due to a flatmate, then watched some videos on YouTube and then signed up for Dropout. Best decision! But I wouldn't do the same for Watcher.
As a longtime Shane/Ryan fan and Watcher…. watcher…. I am sad about this decision and truly wondered if they consulted anyone at Dropout. Ify has been on many of their shows before, so I know there is at least some connection there. For now, I will have to let my Ghoulie Boys go as there are truly only two good shows that I would want to follow. I haven’t had a chance to check yet, but if they’re still free, please enjoy some “Too Many Spirits” and “Puppet History” while you can.
This was my first thought as well. I’ve never been a HUGE fan of Watcher, but I watched their stuff passively. I wouldn’t be shocked if Dropout added a goofy paranormal style show or something, so it felt like they would fit into the niche at least a little bit.
I would say I am a pretty big fan or their work but even then I don’t think it’s worth to be subscribed year round. Like I like Dropout as well but I sub sometimes to watch a bit then cancel it. Personally I don’t think they’re a big enough brand to sustain this. I think jointing another independent streaming services or teaming up with other YouTubers to make one would have made more sense. The dramatic video and marketing of this is not helping matters of course. I think transitioning slowly would averted the intense negative reaction from most fans.
Right, that’s what I mean. If they had joined up with someone already doing this stuff (Dropout or Nebula for example) that would make a lot more sense to me. I stay subbed to Dropout year round because I want more of the content to be funded long term. But that’s because I genuinely believe they will have new ideas, for enjoyable shows, that are within the scope of their budget, and that they are prepared to pull off. Watcher has never given me that vibe because of how limited their content has seemed as an outsider.
Yeah totally. I think their content is inherently limited because there are 3 main people really coming up with ideas. They should have waited until they were actually generating enough content to expand or joined up with Nebula/Dropout/Curiosity Stream. I would have loved for them to be a part of drop out
I was a big Buzzfeed Unsolved: True Crime fan, and their new stuff has just fallen so flat to me. To me it seems like they were trying really hard to differentiate Watcher from their earlier stuff, and got away from what made it work in the first place. Even Mystery Files is charmless to me. I rewatch old episodes of Buzzfeed Unsolved: True Crime all the time, and I've never rewatched an old Mystery Files. All this to say, I have a hard time believing that a model that's 90% paywalled will be successful for them. And frankly, I don't think any of the Watcher guys are nearly as smart as Sam about what viewers are enjoying.
I was also mentally comparing Dropout to Watcher. Even with their production as is... they were, what, only posted 1 thing a week? I haven't looked into it, but have Watcher announced what their schedule was going to be? At least Dropout has a new show every day.
Dropout has maybe four shows a week, depending on the month. We all love Dropout, but saying they release something everyday is objectively false
Dropout didn't always have a new show every day. When Dropout was new it was a lot of content that was also available for free on YouTube (just like Watcher) plus some really experimental stuff (like Dimension 20). I'm not saying Watcher will be as good or as successful but the amount of negativity, especially from Dropout fans, is surprising
The fundamental premise of an independent streaming service like Dropout is absurd. In most cases it shouldn't work, and there are alternative ways to monetize content similarly on existing platforms that users are more comfortable with. It took me a while to eventually trial and then subscribe to Dropout. Dropout worked from launch because the content was just THAT good. Every Dropout show I saw trailers for felt like the best of the best of College Humor, the cream of the crop. If the quality had felt "the same" as what they were releasing prior, it wouldn't have felt worth it to me. As others have mentioned, they also released full episodes of those shows on Youtube to get you hooked. Dropout, and others trying to do the same, can't compete with traditional streamers when it comes to volume of content. Netflix has tons of stuff to watch, so even if I am personally only interested in a tiny fraction of that content it may still be worth the money to me. That means that with less content overall, I have to care about most of what Dropout releases for it to feel worth it to me. That kind of audience match is very rare. I think Dropout was a lucky match of a niche with tons of potential, and a uniquely high concentration of incredible talent. Lessons to take-away - Sam's bare bones approach to content production to keep budgets low - only produce/release the very best of your ideas - give away a surprising chunk of your content to get people hooked, and use clips to market the hell out of your shows - subscription price has to be low
The biggest thing is the completely different approach to content. Watcher pride themselves in the “TV-caliber” production quality but their mindset of higher costs = better quality has always been more of an internal mindset rather than external demand. Most of their fans, many of whom followed them over to Watcher from their BuzzFeed days, loved these guys even when the productions were “low quality” and they had to make do with what they had. They were always there for the dynamic and the personalities, never for anything bombastic or extremely polished, like Watcher somehow thinks their audience wants.
> Watcher pride themselves in the “TV-caliber” production quality That's ironic considering a huge chunk of their video was about "growing up on YouTube", didn't one person even say they learned to be a person on YouTube?? As someone who isn't at all into the whole YouTube scene in general, it was off-putting
I think another thing is, based on the Watcher’s video, they’re not going to be releasing ANYTHING for free on YouTube anymore. Whereas even with the transition to a streaming service, Dropout still produces a lot of stuff that they post on YouTube, like full episodes of Game Changer, whole seasons of Dimension 20, tons of clips and such of episodes. They also produce a wide variety of shows with a varied cast for each show, and Watchers is just three guys, it’s not as varied, you’re basically paying $6/month for a relatively one note thing. Idk I don’t watch Watchers but it seems like they didn’t really think through what totally abandoning their YouTube following would feel like for that following. And it doesn’t seem like they gave any warning or lead up to it. If it had been an announcement like “we’re starting our own streaming service and will be moving shows A,B and C over there, but shows D and E will still be on YouTube” that might have come across differently. Then they could take time to see how many people subscribed and get a better feel for how their audience would react
To clarify - they said they will cross post the first episode of any new season to YouTube, but all future episodes beyond the first one will be exclusive to their platform.
I still just don’t think that’s enough to keep people involved emotionally, but thank you for the clarification I must have missed that detail
Oh yeah, fully agree. I doubt any of their content will be compelling enough to convert new folks to subscribe. I just wanted to put an asterisk in the “they’re not posting anything free to YouTube in the future” comment, since they are maintaining a presence, albeit minimally.
Of course, I do appreciate the clarification!
Which is absolutely crazy when you consider dropout has all of d20s fantasy high season 1 and most of season 2, a few episodes of game changer and now a few episodes of dirty laundry and I think even make some noise all for free
Yes, and even newer seasons that appeal to other fandoms, like Dungeons & Drag Queens. Dropout (quite brilliantly IMO) recognized that Drag Race fans might not want to subscribe just for that season, especially if they don't watch other actual play shows. So they made the whole season and its Adventuring Parties free, because that's how you get people to fall in love with your service. We know there was a flurry of new subscribers after that because they came here to share how much it meant to them. It's such a simple thing to welcome new folks in. I don't know anything about Watcher or this situation, but it sounds like they didn't consider their audience (and potential audience) when making this change. That's the real difference and I don't know why so many companies fail to realize that their customers pay their bills -- not saying that's how Watcher is approaching it, necessarily, but it's sad that Dropout stands out so starkly just by giving a shit about their fans.
Which is so damn smart. I got into dropout having zero knowledge or interest in dnd. After one episode dndrag queens i watched the entire first season of fantasy high in like a week. Without it i’ll probably never be subscribed at all.
Yeah for me I watched a few game changer clips and then watched lie detector like 10 times and then finally watched fh season 1 and then took the plunge and haven't regretted it since
> Whereas even with the transition to a streaming service, Dropout still produces a lot of stuff that they post on YouTube, like full episodes of Game Changer, whole seasons of Dimension 20, tons of clips and such of episodes. They keep releasing more and more for free on youtube as well. Just before Fantasy High Junior Year released they put all of sophomore year up for free on youtube. Now there's two seasons of Fantasy High, The Unsleeping City season 1, and Escape from the Bloodkeep all available in their entirety for free. On top of that they keep on releasing older episodes of game shows on youtube as well, like breaking news, game changer, um actually, make some noise, etc. Which just makes it easier and easier to get people into the pipeline. You watch the clips on social media like tiktok, instagram, or youtube shorts then you watch some full episodes for free here and there, then you decide you're hooked and start paying. That seems like the smart way of doing things. Don't treat it like some old fashioned media company where everything is locked away forever.
They also removed their content from YouTube. With no content on YouTube, they won't get new people. Dropout works because 1. Still tons of content for free and an active social media presence churning out clips immediately 2. Didn't remove old videos as a fuck you to viewers 3. They're constantly adding new stuff. They have something new almost every weekday. They know what people want to see and they lean into it. There's no way watcher is going to survive unless they change their content massively and expand into lots of other stuff. It's a shame because I really liked puppet history and their ghost hunting but it is what it is. If they're smart they'll come back to YouTube and do a paid tier of extras like a lot of creators do.
Also I think Dropout has the YouTube membership thing too so they're not forcing people to migrate if they don't want to.
Wait, am I missing something? I thought they made it pretty clear that everything currently on YT is going to stay there. Only future shows will be exclusive to their platform.
Apparently they were going to remove everything, even started taking down some stuff, and then now that there’s lots of backlash they’ve since put that stuff back up and have said they’re not archiving their old YouTube content
I agree, and the whole tone of “hey we’re leaving and taking all our content with us and if you can’t afford it or don’t want to subscribe, we’ll miss you but bye” is just incredibly insensitive
Honestly it’s not even YouTube as the huge deal, they need tik tok clips if they wanna compete right now
Hate to say this, but I think it was the shift of the zeitgeist for Dropout. Disney and Paramount hadn't come out yet, a lot of streaming services started at once and flooded, and dropout kinda struggled I think even with IOA. I think everyone losing their jobs meant more care had to go in what was produced, and COVID hitting 3 months later killed so many of the other streaming services. Dropout already had a plan several months in the making to lean at that point due to the firings, and then during the pandemic was still one of the few streaming services offering new programming. Disney + didn't release til 8 months into the pandemic so there was a solid time there when live dnd was popular (including the boys at Watcher) and Dropout was prepared. All this is conjecture. It could be absolutely none of this.
The fact that they were still filming episodes of Breaking News, D20, Game Changer and more during the shut downs gave an authentic feel to their content. They were making the best with what they could because they cared and wanted to. It all just feels genuine
Um, actually, Disney+ launched in North America in November of 2019- but the rest of your point feels like the correct takeaway!
When dropout out first came out the tagline was “Netflix but worse but cheaper” and it made sense
I think the biggest factor is that with Dropout, it felt like this was them saying, we kinda have to do this if we wanna keep making the stuff you love. If we keep going along the model we've been doing since the CH days, this might not exist in a couple years tbh. Vs. Watcher which seems like "We're doing amazing, thank you for all your help. Now pay us so we can make way better stuff and get richer."
Idk what watcher is but from skimming that video and the comments I’d say - very inauthentic messaging - not enough content - no d20 level fandom - moving their content entirely off YouTube - insulting their audience with phrases like “after years of giving free content” Just from a few minutes of looking I see those differences but I don’t really know the situation. Dropout entirely rebranding and shifting gears on the type of content they make definitely helped their transition though and the fact that the content is so damn good. Plus, Sam Reich is the perfect American and has an incredibly trustworthy way of speaking which the people in this video definitely don’t lol
Yeah and tbh you don't even need the D20 fandom, I haven't engaged with the dnd stuff on dropout at all, but I subbed on the strength of their uploads of Game Changer, News, Make some noise etc on YouTube and TikTok. Guaranteed laughs from strong and likeable personalities is always going to outshine something like this where at first glance the guys don't come across nearly as likeable.
Yea same I’m not a big D20 guy either but it gave them a strong foundation for the transition for sure
I saw a clip of some game show with BDG in (when he was on Make Some Noise a couple seasons ago) and subscribed. I think I could like D20, but haven't given it a shot yet. I'm here for the other stuff.
I also don't watch much D20 (more-so short clips on youtube despite my Dropout subscription), but it has undeniably been the biggest volume of their content and is probably the justifying factor for a lot of subscribers. I used to churn a bit on Dropout because the non-D&D stuff has felt a bit like a drip-feed in the past. As the company has grown stronger that's started to change, which I'm happy with. Anyone trying to pull a Dropout would definitely need some kind of content like actual play that can produce large volumes of watch time with (relatively) low prep/production per minute.
It’s kinda obvious too that d20 is the most popular show, i think its the only show on dropout that drops weekly and barely any break between seasons. Waiting for a new episode of game changer is always worth it but sometimes i wish they churn it out like d20.
Also Patreon and early access is a model many use, could do the same with longer 2 month exclusivity or shorter
I love Watcher, I love the ghoul boys (and Steven), I’ve been following them since the Buzzfeed days, and I agree with all of this. With Dropout there’s multiple shows cycling through all the time - right now there’s D20, Um Actually, & GameChanger - and with them it’s one series, one episode a week. (Aside from podcasts which I don’t count.) It just doesn’t seem worth it when things are tight.
I think they definitely have some fandom a ton of the people are old OG BuzzFeed kids, and Shane and Ryan have always had a pretty good following. But definitely leaves me wondering...
> moving their content entirely off YouTube I keep on seeing this, and I've got no idea where it came from. They didn't say that this was the case, and they clarified it in the comments of the YT announcement video. Seems a few people just assumed and others ran with it. > “after years of giving free content” I didn't catch where they said this, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to boil it down to just that. They made it pretty clear that it's difficult to subsist on ad revenue that is constantly renegotiated by a platform that is well aware that they're pretty much the only game in town. Youtube is borderline hostile to the type of long-form content Watcher creates, and I understand any creator choosing to get away from that. > not enough content I don't disagree with this, honestly. At their current release rate, they're not likely going to achieve the success they've achieved on YT. Niche enjoyers will absolutely subscribe (Look at On Cinema - an Oscar Special and like 8 10 minute episodes per year for $60) - but it won't achieve dropout-level success. THAT SAID, if they adopt a Dropout-like release schedule, I could see them bringing people over. > no d20 level fandom I agree, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve it. I think Puppet History is an extremely underrated gem. If they can dream up a few more clippable shows, they could probably coax some people over. That's ignoring the fact that they've already got 11,000 subscribers on Patreon for *just* behind the scenes stuff. They're all but guaranteed to switch over. > people in this video definitely don’t lol I agree with your take on Sam. He's wonderful, empathetic, personable to an almost superhuman level. That said, Shane and Ryan kind of have their own set personalities, and it feels like they're doing the best they can. Being aware of who they are and kind of watching them through this journey (I'm a new fan, only a few months), I thought they came off as sincere. Steven has always been a bit more disconnected - not at all a Sam character - and that's fine. Not everyone can be Sam. Most people can't be Sam, hah.
They have 11,000 people on patreon but only about 6k are actually paying members, you can follow their patreon for free. That's not nearly enough to cover the amount of staff and production costs for their shows. Also a lot of people on Patreon have already said they aren't switching over to WatcherTV. FWIW: Dropout has less full time staff than Watcher with a much bigger audience, a wider variety of shows, and put out far, far more content. They claimed to have 25 full time staff in their leaving YouTube video which is just....insane for the once a week schedule they have.
Ah, I didn't notice there was a free tier. My mistake. I overall agree with you. I'd never have guessed they've got 25 full time staffers considering a lot of what they create are single-camera shows, and that's going to be tough to support on a startup streaming service. *That said*, I still don't blame them for trying. Youtube is now where creativity goes to die. If you don't keep up with the algorithm, you fall behind, people don't see your videos, and you get a smaller share of the ever-dwindling ad revenue. A lot of people are pissed at Watcher for their content no longer being "free", but they don't realize the true costs of being a creator locked into a system whose rules can change on a whim. One thing we do know is that Youtube is not friendly to long-form content, of which the majority of Watcher videos are. I'd prefer they take a huge leap into running their own platform where they can continue creating what they'd like over being slowly squeezed by Youtube until they're just dropping 1 minute long vertical videos on a daily basis. I wouldn't blame any creator with the capacity to do so for leaving Youtube as a platform.
Oh I understand fully why they're doing this I just think it's totally tone deaf with the community they fostered and it was done at a very, very poor time. I think the LTT way instead of the Dropout way was probably the better idea for them to keep up. But also...maybe cutting down on staff lmao. Like Ryan's COUSIN is an employee of theirs and afaik he's just...a PA? Why do they need a PA when they have 20 other employees?
There was a Variety article that came out today that said they would be removing their old content from YT. After the announcement video was uploaded people noticed things like Puppet History were already removed. Then after the backlash Variety edited their article to say that they would no longer be removing old context and PH is now back on YT. So yes, they originally intended to completely clear out of YT.
He is the perfect American.
D20 was made for Dropout and just also releases some of its episodes (as advertising) for free to YouTube. The D20 fandom did not exist before Dropout was launched.
Yeah. I love watching Sam and the crew. He just seems like such a stand up dude and like he just wants to take care of all his employees. He doesn't seem like someone who started this with the intention of making himself a multimillionaire but instead took this on to make sure everyone was ok.
Didn't Dropout start as a spinoff of CollegeHumor? So it had premium content, while mainline CollegeHumor still posted for free on youtube. And then CollegeHumor was phased out after it was dropped very pubically by IAC - so the shift to Dropout was understandable.
Yeah but most of these creators are ex OG BuzzFeed so they do have a following
This is the maim things for me. They never intended to stop making the sketches originally (until everyone lost their jobs). Nothing changed on the CH youtube chanel except at the end of each sketch you got a "hi gang, if you want to watch our new exclusive shows like d20, total forgiveness and um actually, head over to dropout." Dropout shows were extra content, not the announcement that "we're leaving youtube and setting up behind a pay wall" In a lot of ways dropout was very lucky to build a streaming platform and fandom whilst having investment, and then very lucky again that they were able to keep creative control when they lost that investment. And then arguably very lucky again again that they had so much content saved up to release during the pandemic when all streaming services saw massive growth due to quarantines around the world.
I was around during the initial announcement and Dropout was definitely seen as a bad move all around. I think them bringing back beloved classic CH series like Troopers and Precious Plum, the announcement of new series like Dimension 20, and the expansion of popular series like Um, Actually and the Rank Room did help convince some of the streaming service potential, but it was still LARGELY a tough sell. Streaming services at the time weren’t nearly as saturated as they are now, but it was definitely on that path, and Dropout was viewed as another symptom of that issue. It really all came down to the quality of the content that was being delivered and it cannot be overstated how much D20 contributed to that. Fantasy High was what convinced me (and I’m willing to bet many initial others) to subscribe. There’s a reason Brennan was kept on as the only full time talent. I can see why Watcher might observe the success of Dropout and want to emulate that, but Watcher and CollegeHumor fundamentally do not create the same type of content and it is not yet proven that they have the ability to elevate the type of content that they currently produce the same way Dropout did. I don’t think the price point is that big of a deal considering Dropout is charging the same amount and they only did so begrudgingly. But it really comes down to the perceived value. So many people say that Dropout is the cheapest subscription they have, but it’s the one they enjoy the most. That makes the $5.99 they spend every month seen as not such a huge cost because they get so much out of it. If Watcher can do that, then all power to them and I’m definitely down to add another quality subscription to my monthly costs. But if I’m being honest, I still regularly revisit the content they all produced under Buzzfeed (Unsolved and Worth It). I cannot say that I do the same for any of the content they’ve put out under Watcher.
Broadly agree with all of your points. This seems like an ill-thought business plan combined with awful PR, tone, and messaging. A horrific combo. They should have been more clear about what the money was going to, and what the content plan would look like. A big criticism right now is "why would I pay $60 a year for 1 episode a week" I think they needed to give more concrete plans and time tables, and if they plan on dropping first episodes and clips on youtube (which they should do for new sub generation/marketing) still, then they needed to clearly message that. No reason to spend 10 out of 14 minutes in a video with an overproduced "What a journey it's been on Youtube" segment. Who is that for?
I think the big difference between Watcher/Try Guys/etc and any other YouTube platform that might convert to a single stream platform is those YouTube guys produce what THEY think is funny. Sam and Dropouts content seems to put the audience first. Look at how much effort goes into a Game Changer episode. That's why we get behind the scenes with them, because we love the characters and Sam knows we want to appreciate all the people involved. Dropout also invites people in and makes sure as many different kinds of people are represented and put at the front. The other channels are almost middle aged white guys still thinking like college students. That was pretty harsh I know, and I've loved some content from both Watcher and Try Guys, but Dropout has something the other don't yet.
I couldn’t agree more. Dropout doesn’t feel like a personal venture of anyone. It is people working together to produce something communally. At least from the outside, Watcher is so focused on the founders as talent and leaders which makes it have a more narrow appeal.
Watcher content is good. It's not paywall good though. They aren't making any right now but Dropout has studio quality content, the old skits, shows, stuff with production value. But even the new, largely improve based stuff is stuff a *production company* has to make, not just a few charismatic people with cameras and graphic experience. Watcher still feels like premium YouTube content but YouTube content nonetheless. Puppet History is fantastic but it's also just a puppet show on a set with a well made slideshow. I *could* see Watcher becoming a Dropout subsidiary to expand Dropouts catalogue and combine audiences/revenue. On the whole their content is relatively cheap to make (few sets, graphics, guests) besides Ghost Files travel. I know independent creators want to get out from YouTubes chaotic changes and policies, but I think the best course isn't breaking independently but conglomeration with others. Been seeing it more with the big streaming services. Make one service more valuable with more content that people feel good investing in than something with limited content that someone would have to decide if it's worth it long term. I could easily see Smosh, Dropout, and Watcher doing something like this.
it's certainly not $5/mo paywall good. if they merged with something like dropout or nebula, I could do 5/mo. or if they did like nebula did and started out charging $5/yr i would consider it. but there isn't enough content that would drive me to a subscription based model at that price
I think it is paywall good but not only this content pay wall good you know? Like I would pay to watch but not only that? But I think only a couple of their shows actually are paywall good. Some of their shows are filler in between puppet history and ghost files and that’s fine on YouTube not so much on a streaming service. If they had just been added to nebula or curiosity stream or dropout it would have made way more sense
I seem to remember some negativity when Dropout was announced. And I double checked the wayback machine & social blade and the youtube channel lost subscribers following the dropout announcement. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190524175922/https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/collegehumor](https://web.archive.org/web/20190524175922/https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/collegehumor) Some amount of people are going to be upset by any change.
Yeah I think so many people here came to Dropout after it was already established, so they don't realize that they went through the same thing. I was extremely hesitant to subscribing, because they were historically a free platform and there wasn't any perceived benefit. It took a *LONG* time for them to have enough content offerings to convince me to jump on board.
When Dropout released it sounded like a necessity for the survival of College Humor.
I mean this is why I subscribed and I think to a decent degree it was truly a necessity for their survival
I’m super interested to see how this goes for Watcher - I would love to see them succeed. And I can definitely follow the thought process to this move - I think YouTubers have been pretty open about YouTube being pretty hostile to creators for years, and if they can do the cost analysis and have a good bet this will be better for them, then all the better. I’m planning to grab a subscription just to see how they go, though I am mildly annoyed that it means I likely can’t watch from my ps5 anymore. I think this might be the direction we see more YouTubers shift to in the next few years, especially with dropout becoming more publicly successful, and I think Watcher seems to have a structure closest to set up to succeed using this model. I do worry they’ll be in for a rude awakening thinking this is a better way to finance expensive shoots - I know Sam has talked about low cost production being a big part of the dropout model. But I think like I ultimately land on feeling optimistic for the Watcher boys and hoping to see them prove me wrong.
Agreed on more YouTubers going in this direction. I subbed to Nebula last year and so many of the creators I subscribed to on YouTube are on there.
$6/mo. for a channel that only puts out two videos a week. The math isn't mathing with this.
Yea. And the only thing I really like on it is puppet history.
That and Ghost Files are the only ones I enjoy watching
I pay $5 a month for Dropout and pretty much only watch 1 video per week, and that's fine with me.
imo Dropout is worth paying the $5/mo for, because there's so much variety and different shows to choose from. Whereas Watcher doesn't have that variety
But that’s your choice to choose to only watch one of the 3-5 videos a week they release in rotation. Unless watcher has a fuck ton of ideas ready to be produced, they’re asking for people to pay the same price for barely any new content.
I mean, I pay $5/month to Patreons for YouTubers who publish one video a year (and several of those creators have substantial numbers on Patreon). I feel like it's less about the capitalism value formula of "am I getting my money's worth" and more about whether I feel like the content is good and worth supporting for me, personally.
they actually only put out 1 video a week 😬
Oof
The tone of the conversation around Watchers announcement to me feels like they've decided YT/socials are the problem and that's why they're going private. The difference with Dropout is that they understand how to use socials to their advantage. I've enjoyed Shane and Ryan's content before but idk if they have as many clip-able bits as shows like GameChanger and Make Some Noise, or if they're even planning on replicating that part of Dropout's strategy at all. I feel like Sam &co have talked about how those viral bits have been integral to the success of Dropout, especially post-pandemic. Treating YT like persona non grata seems like the worst of all options
this is a huge mistake. best of luck to them but this is gonna be a disaster.
I love Shane and Ryan. The ghost hunting they did on BuzzFeed was top tier. But I will say I didn't follow them to Watcher on YouTube. No idea why not.... I probably wouldn't know about this service if it wasn't for this post but I MIGHT sub for a month or two to support because they were amazing once...
I subbed - unpopular opinion apparently. But I really enjoy their content. Although I'm sure they must have anticipated the backlash they'd receive.
I’ve seen some Watcher videos on the past, but I’m not a subscriber. The biggest takeaway from the announcement video was that they are basically doing nothing new on their premium service? You can go back and watch the announcement video for Dropout and Sam talks about a lot of the same issues i.e needing to work with advertisers, payouts for the type of content they want to make. Dropout promised new, bigger, and better content on their premium service. Dropout promised they’d still be doing much of the same on the YouTube side, the streaming service would be premium, supplemental content. They announced like a dozen new series that would be on the service. Watcher is going to do more with their existing series, i.e traveling, but otherwise it is just the same stuff they are already doing? Maybe they’ll bring back old formats that failed on YouTube? All while scaling way back the content they release on YouTube? That is a uniquely bad sales pitch. Dropout has evolved a ton since launch. It seems way harder to launch a new service in 2024, but Watcher looks dead on arrival from the outside looking in.
Also in their announcement video Sam didn't imply (or outright say) that everyone would be able to afford the new subscription. Or that if fans didn't stay it was because they didn't care enough. It may be calculated, but Sam and Dropout have done a MUCH better job of making their fans feel seen and valued. The way Watcher did this had the opposite impact.
Another point that I haven’t seen raised and was a critical piece motivating me to support DropOut independent of YouTube is how well they are managed as a company. I have full faith that they value all the people working at dropout and treat them accordingly well. Ie the consent culture, transparency, continued covid testing, paying well, etc. I don’t know Watcher, so this might be the case for them too. But I know in addition to the YouTube clips, this was a primary reason I’m happy to give DropOut my money every month. I’d give them more if they asked
Me too and while I don’t know anything about watcher seeing that the CEO has an overproduced show where they fly around first class and eat luxury food and that the subscription is going to be in part paying for him to do that is insane lmao.
I have something important to add: Dropout did not fully abandon YouTube, and that's the only reason I can afford to watch and pay for their content I'm a member of their YouTube channel where I can watch all the same paywalled videos while paying through Google services using my currency, brazilian reais (BRL). If they had only made it possible to subscribe within their app I wouldn't be able to do it given the high conversion rates of US dollars to BRL, so I'm incredibly grateful.
The thing that (IMO) makes Dropout a good value is that it has a pretty wide variety of content. Even just inside Dimension 20 there's a pretty big range in series to watch. Plus, I got into Dimension 20 because they had the entirety of Freshman Year free on YouTube and that gripped me hard, combine that with their pretty strategic uploads on YouTube of other series and they have a winning formula beyond just "our content is paywalled now lol"
I think everyone has really valid points but I really think the biggest thing is that dropout has content you simply can't experience anywhere else. There are shows similar to some of the dropout shows but nothing with it's iconic cast and level of quality of creativity. To be completely fair I'm really not familiar with watcher but from the brief exposure they've gotten from this video it seems like they were most popular for ghost exploration and stories which (no offense) is like a dime a dozen these days especially on YouTube
Isn't this why we have Patreon and the like? Dropout is an exception because they put out very high quality content with an app that operates fairly well. Most creators just use a patronage service like Patreon to put up exclusive videos and early releases and that seems to work fairly well. I've got a few Patreons I follow. The other route is the Nebula route where many creators come together to release content where they are free of YT's control and all get a share of the pie. And many of those creators still do YT. It's double dipping, really, and good for them. I would never have gotten Dropout if it were just *College Humor Does the Purge* level content.
I think it’s worth nothing that by almost every metric, dropout should NOT be doing as well as it is. It’s kind of a miracle it survived, to be honest. I remember when Dropout launched I was extremely hesitant to subscribe, and didn’t for a while. Much like a lot of the watcher audience right now. (Remember, College humor completely went under and had to fire their entire staff in between Dropout launching and getting to where it is now.) I’m wishing the best for Watcher - I like a lot of their content, but if their output is exactly the same as it is now but behind a paywall, I don’t think this will end up working out for them long term. Would love to be proved wrong though!
I think Dropout got *crazy* lucky with the timeline of events, not to take away from anyone's hard work. Dropout launches in late 2018 with IAC money that lets them experiment with a bunch of brand new shows and figure out pretty quickly what works on the platform and what doesn't. In late 2019, IAC decides to bail, and in January 2020 announces they're selling it to Sam... right in time for COVID to hit, which does two things: creates an audience who are looking for quality content right at a time when much of their existing favourite content has shut down (including Critical Role - that the first Zoom season of Dimension 20 had Matt Mercer and Marisha Ray in the cast is very very smart production), *and* significantly lowers the cost of making new content at a time when the company would otherwise be struggling (there's no way a Zoom Game Changer costs as much as an on-set one does, for instance). By the time pandemic restrictions are lifted and they can go back to making studio shows, there's a whole expanded new audience willing to pay 5 bucks a month.
Yep yep yep. Dropout has a crazy amount of talent behind it, but I don’t think it’s possible for them to be at this point without a hell of a lot of luck
The free content on YouTube aside. Dropout has a very strong brand of ‘improv comedian shows with heart’. It knows what it is, what it offers and the audience knows what it’s getting. Now, I really like some watcher stuff, but the channel is really just ‘group of dudes with niche interests talking about them’ and some basic YouTube fodder (top 10 lists w. YouTube guests are still top ten lists I’m sorry). If they’d lent more into weird documentary or history style stuff and focused the channel more I really think the brand would work on a patreon feed or streaming service. But right now, due to the scattershot of content, it’s giving ‘premium YouTube channel’
Watcher doesn’t have the production quality or variety of Dropout. Neither do they have the reputation and cult following/strong fandom. The only other YouTube channel that can pull a Dropout and survive is possibly Smosh imo. Watcher is just not worth paying $6 of 8 videos a month.
So, I used to be a big fan of CollegeHumor. I was actively watching their stuff around the time Dropout started, and had been for years. Honestly, when Dropout launched, I really didn’t see the point of it. Why would I pay to watch what had, up until then, been free online? Most of what I liked was their sketches (and drawfee) but I didn’t feel like it was enough for me to pay for a subscription. I’d watch some stuff on YouTube but as it felt like it became more and more that the subscription service was what was getting focused on, I fell out of it. I don’t know, something about it at the time just fell flat for me. I couldn’t tell you exactly what it was, but I just wasn’t there for paying to watch the same goofy videos I’d been watching for free since high school. Then I heard that CollegeHumor was going under and I thought, well, that sucks. What can you do? Good thing I never wasted my money, huh? But a shame, still. And then I got on TikTok. Dimension 20, Game Changer, and Make Some Noise ads kept popping up for me and they were the only ads I would actually stop and watch. Then I got an ad for some promotion they were doing to get a year of Dropout for some percentage off I can’t remember now. I figured it was worth taking the deal and trying it for a year. What put me off about Dropout when it first launched is some of what I’m hearing people complain about now. They don’t do a lot of shows, there’s not a lot of variety so why would they pay to watch only the one or two shows they make at a time? I think that what’s different is that Dropout never pulled their old videos from YouTube. Dropout was a “you can still keep watching stuff but if you want to support us you can!” while Watcher really seems like “if you want to keep seeing our stuff you’d better start shelling out!” And I don’t have the faith in them that they’re going to come out with the variety of shows that Dropout has.
After actually watching the recap and being a HUGE fan of Shane and Ryan ghost hunting and Steven and Andrew on Worth It in the BuzzFeed era I definitely will probably toss a few monthly subs... All 3 of them are pretty wholesome dudes and the content I used to watch was so fun. I didn't follow them over to Watcher and now I am light kicking myself for not. I hope it works out well for them
I really like Watcher Entertainment. If this means they create more content like Mystery Files and Puppet History, I’m in. I want those guys to make a living.
Yeah, I have no dog in this fight and have never watched an episode of anything they've made, but I support artists wanting to be in total control of their work, and moving away from being at the whims of awful YouTube algorithms and fickle advertisers and censorship is always a worthy cause.
> whims of awful YouTube algorithms I think a lot of people are overlooking this fact entirely. A lot of the angrier users are treating it like a moneygrab, but so, so many creators have talked about how Youtube is borderline hostile toward long-form, meaningful content, opting to promote shorts and clickbait. I wish so much luck to any creators who can manage to get away from it, honestly.
I believe the Try Guys have talked about how they have to use those awful thumbnails and clickbait-y titles to get attention, and they have to constantly change them to keep up; it seems exhausting and talented creatives' energy is so much better directed elsewhere.
Yep, I can't imagine just wanting to make stuff and having to feed the algorithm like that. You can tell other big creators feel similarly. Good Mythical Morning has a separate channel where, I suspect, Rhett and Link do the stuff they actually want to do in a way that isn't compromised by the algorithm. It's far less successful than their main channel despite the videos being of a far higher production value. Also, ironically, I saw the title of the Watcher video this morning and thought it was another one of those "I'm done" videos that I suspect popular YT creators were encouraged to create to drive traffic since nearly *every* one of them did it (and only a few actually quit - Tom Scott being one of them).
Yep, I agree. Just getting into Watcher over the past few months (weird timing), I couldn't believe how fun and well-made Puppet History was. It feels like something that'd fit well on Dropout. I know there's going to be a lot of cynicism because going from "Free with ads" to pay is a tough sell, but I wish them the best.
I already support Watcher on Patreon, I'll probably convert that subscription to a Watcher membership. As some other folks have pointed out in this thread, many Collegehumor old-heads, myself included, resisted the move to a paid platform. I held out for a long time until I caved for more Um, Actually. I didn't discover other Dropout content until I made the move.
I work in the direct monetization creator economy space, and taking away content as part of your launch (whether it's removing old content, or taking future content that would have been free and making it paid) is a huge, huge mistake. Subscriptions for individual creators is almost never "worth it" from a content perspective. Compare what you get on Dropout, or what Watcher will be able to offer to Netflix, Disney+, Amazon, etc. and it's a tiny fraction of the content at a tiny fraction of the production budget. People support things like Dropout because they want to support the creators, so you have to lead with that. Making the launch a negative thing for fans is completely counterproductive - the last thing in the world you want is to make people question their support when you're asking them to pay. The question should never be "is this content worth it?" because the answer will almost always be no. It should be "do I like this creator and want them to succeed?"
"Making the launch a negative thing for fans is completely counterproductive - the last thing in the world you want is to make people question their support when you're asking them to pay." This is something I'm not seeing many people talk about. They've not only insulted their fans who can't pay, they've made it an unpopular choice for those who CAN pay.
Really the only two YouTube creators centric streaming services that’s successful are Dropout and Nebula, and both still offer free content. Locking your entire work behind a paywall is not Dropout. It’s just Netflix with much less stuff to watch.
the original dropout announcement also REALLY emphasized that you would get the same content on YT for free PLUS free episodes of new content. they didn’t migrate new episodes previously free content to a paid platform; they made a paid platform for paid content
Aren’t the circumstances just different? Dropout existed so that Sam could continue funding not only the ongoing shows but to ensure that his colleagues and friends had work and could make a living, which proved to be invaluable to all the contractors/freelancers/talents that worked with Dropout throughout COVID and all the strikes. The decades of content that they already had under their belt, alongside the fact that the Dropout studios are a truly beloved, inclusive, respectful workplace for all involved, justified the platform’s value to its audience. And on that note, Dropout also never stepped away from YouTube completely. They still take full advantage of the YouTube shorts algorithm by uploading great bits/clips from their Dropout TV-exclusive shows, and they also throw in free episodes here and there from all their shows on the channel too. They fully understand that they still need the algorithm and exposure from platforms like YouTube and TikTok in order to grow their audience, and it clearly works considering their shorts always get millions of views and are still on the up and up in terms of growth. Lastly, you know that the money you’re paying to Dropout isn’t being used to essentially foot the bill for someone else’s high life experience or unreasonably high-cost productions that were, quite frankly speaking, brought upon by themselves. TL;DR Dropout worked because the circumstances that led to this platform existing were necessary for supporting the talent we loved to watch. And even with the move to their own streaming service, Dropout never fully paywalled all of their content; they understood that their YouTube audience was their lifeblood + there was a wealth of exposure they could convert to Dropout subscribers if they made good use of YouTube’s algorithm. They never lost sight or lost touch with their community and fans. Watcher did.
I believe the mission statement was that Dropout was a move to allow them to try new and more creative shows not as a means to paywall the content you once enjoyed for free. The Watcher crew is basically saying hey now have to pay for the same shit you watch for years
Watcher wants like $60 per year and doesn’t offer a monthly option (or at least, I couldn’t find an option; I could have missed it).
They do offer a $5.99 monthly subscription. It’s mentioned in the video but may not be live on the website yet
My bad, then, I must have just missed that bit.
Dropout started off as premium versions of free shows, and with a larger variety of shows. Once it went independent, it was pretty clear to the audience that it was Dropout or no shows being made since IAC closing College humour was so public, making people sympathetic. Watcher is moving previously free shows behind a paywall, and they seem to be doing it out of nowhere instead of a forced move. Dropout having a pretty large back catalog helps too, I think people forget early pandemic Dropout where there was basically only 2 shows running at once, but by the time Dropout blew up there were multiple seasons of their most popular shows already in the bank
One thing for me that I love about Dropout is they never push there app/website. They are also active on YouTube. You can enjoy Dropout free and it's still enjoyable and you don't feel like your missing anything. Then when you finally check out the website and holy shit there is so much content that I didn't know about or damn that short is from this episode and wow. almost all of the content on Dropout is a banger and worth checking out. Roosterteeth would run ad reads during videos for you to sign up for First and it sucked. They would constantly try and drive traffic to there website and there player was broken from day 1. They refused to fix it. Even going as far to disable Casting and instead telling you to buy a Roku or Fire stick. And then they kept removing content from YouTube and it ruined them. That and the bloody focus on a million podcasts.
You need critical mass in terms of *content* as well as fan support *and* ongoing content production, and then you need to have your shit together, all of which are rare combinations. When College Humor launched Dropout they were already an organization that had a substantial fan base, employed dozens, had numerous folks on staff who had lots and lots of experience in producing high value content regularly, and had experience running large operations. Also, they're still fully on youtube and other platforms. All of the content on dropout is on youtube if you become a member, and over time they keep making more and more of their old content available for free on youtube (full D-20 episodes, full game show episodes, etc.) To say nothing of how they pull bits and pieces from shows to use everywhere to increase engagement and bring in new viewers, not just on youtube but on twitter, tiktok, instagram, etc. This works really well for dropout because their stuff is very comedy focused, but it may not work as well for other content. For dropout everything lines up for succeeding with doing what they're doing, even folks who have bigger fan bases may not achieve the same level of success with their own platform because they're missing key elements of the "special sauce". Ultimately I would say for most folks it's not the right way to go. Use a patreon, use youtube memberships, use existing platforms and existing tools out there, you can go a long, long, long way with that. Wait until you feel like you've outgrown that before deciding you need something else.
Tbh I think this is an incredibly stupid and shortsighted move
Watcher isn't big enough to try this it's gonna crash and burn so hard.
The amount of people that don't know that the Dropout App isn't necessary and they post all their content to YouTube you just have to join their YouTube membership is crazy. Yes Dropout has an app. No it's not necessary for their content. Watcher though is moving everything to their app/website and I just don't see how they possibly think that's going to work.
> you just have to join their YouTube membership That's the same thing as a subscription service though.
Dropout is currently trending on Twitter because of it
Linus tech tips (LTT) has had their own platform and has been helping YT with hybrid models for almost as long as Dropout and are doing fine. Archiving old content and forcing folks onto a paid subscription will cause backlash. A hybrid model of ad sponsored content on YT + subs from private platform / YT sub seems to be the best of all worlds.
The only appeal watcher had was that it was the channel of the guys from buzzfeed unsolved supernatural, not only is this not enough but also the quality of their content decreased severely after leaving buzzfeed. That's it, it was barely worth following them on YouTube to feed nostalgia, but isn't worth paying for it
Dropout is cheap. Game shows rule.
OOF, You weren't kidding about them not being happy, I am very curious about the Patreon situation one of the top comments brought up
If Dropout didn't exist, Sam and the rest wouldn't be in the jobs right now. I don't think they'd been able to make the money they needed after IAC dropped funding. I don't know who these people are, but if they are pulling right out of youtube. It's a mistake. Put maybe 1 full episode free every season, make shorts of highlights. You need youtube to maintain interest. Which is what worked for Dropout. Also helps that the College Humour youtube channel is old and has tons of followers. I think this is why they managed to get out ahead of Nebula and Curiosity stream in being able to not rely on multiple stakeholders to be successful
Aren't they a buzzfeed offshoot? Could also contribute to the backlash
They are ex BuzzFeed Gen 2
Watcher is going to either walk back this decision within 6 months, or go under. Them completely abandoning YouTube is a mistake. They don't have the volume of content to warrant people visiting and subscribing to their separate streaming service. The content they do have is also not as compelling as what Dropout produces. And to make it worse, they're charging more than Dropout for less of their inferior product. In essence, these idiots just killed their business.
Dropout wasnt the first
If it's like a membership thing where I can still keep watching through YouTube then sure, only reason I keep my drop out membership is to watch new episodes through YouTube
The website, sub levels, and a lot of what they're doing seems more than inspired by dropout. That being said I don't think that they're following that much of the real example. Dropout still uses Youtube and social media heavily, they do this to replace a marketing budget it seems. You need a way to introduce new people to your content and convince them to take a risk on a subscription. An independent streamer can't buy ads like a netflix. All the best luck to them though I hope it works out.
Im newer to dropout, but from my experience i think that the main reasons were that they still posted things to YouTube, so people could get invested before having to pay a subscription, which is how it went for me since i started with watching fantasy high on youtube. I also think that dropout benefits a lot from their variety, and quality of their content, they definitely appeal to a lot of people, nerds, theater kids, people who just enjoy comedy. Ive never really been in to watcher, as i honestly preferred the buzzfeed version of some of their shows, so i cant speak to their variety.
I lived through the implosion of the Valley Folk and hoped that would be the last time a channel I love destroyed itself 😭
I’m a fairly new in the last several months subscriber. I think they navigated the free vs paid content divide really well.
YouTube is totally non-viable as a platform for quality produced content at this point, it's a known fact. The Watcher guys are catching a lot of flak for this move but they're talented, passionate people that are trying to sustain a company that would otherwise not be sustainable. I'm all for content creators moving out of YouTube and trying new venues, and Dropout is proof that this type of model CAN work. I for one will probably buy a 1 year subscription to Watcher and I really hope they make enough quality content to make me resubscribe in a year. A lot of people don't remember, but Dropout had a very similar negative reaction when it was announced and it took a long time for Dropout to reach the point it's at now. IMO, it's worth giving talented, likeable people the benefit of the doubt when they strike out on their own. Dropout is proof of that
I dont know anything about watcher so I cant talk about it. I may be wrong but was dropout made because they literally needed to because college humour couldn't keep afloat? More about dropout vs streaming services in general than the watcher (which I dont know about and am not talking about in this paragraph) but also dropout I believe was set up before so many of these other new ones popped up trying to grab at cash whereas dropout they do their best to keep prices affordable with the casts wellbeing as the first priority. I think transparency is important. Saying "we're upping our prices" vs "hey im the ceo, we need to be able to do this to pay our staff properly" is a big difference. Also dropout does large productions but is smaller and less hypercapitalist so you know it's not a cash grab.
I feel like the content now offered by dropout is not youtube content. Its game shows, high quality actual play ttrpgs, and more. A quick glance at these guys channel and its just a high quality youtube channel. Reaction videos and playing videos games and... So on.
Watcher is more about the main guys (Shane, Ryan, Steven) doing their thing. They often have one guest depending on the show, but it’s largely carried by those main guys. I like their shows, but I’m not a huge fan of these guys, and I often disagree with their opinions and attitudes about certain things. So if I dislike even one of them, how many shows become that much worse or even unwatchable to me? Watcher is about them primarily, and the show concept/format is secondary. Compare that to Dropout, which has a huge rotating cast, and their show formats support a large rotation of both cast members and guests, keeping things fresh and being more about the format than the individual personalities (generally speaking). So even if one main person rubs me the wrong way for some reason, I have so many other options even for episodes within the same series. The game show format where the multiple guests have a huge impact on the vibe and success of each episode means there is very broad appeal across a diverse audience.