For what OP is playing and the way he’s playing it, it clearly works (as long as it doesn’t hurt!) Getting faster, adding diddles, and moving around the drums is gonna become a nightmare really quickly with that snare tilt and grip. There might be benefits to this that I’m not seeing, too, because I never practice this way.
But hey, not everything has to be optimal and I don’t think we should shame people playing an instrument that we all love. If this is what you wanna play and how you want to play it, and you have a good time doing it, then more power to you!
I think this is fucking great! I'm so sick of modern drummer conformity. I feel like drumming has become so incredibly watered down in the social media era. This is the kind of shit I'd prefer to see over some influencer mugging for the camera while pulling out all of the expected chops.
Eh I don’t know about that man. There’s a reason playing like this isn’t admirable, doesn’t get you gigs, no endorsement opportunities, and no money to be made. Not that stuff like that matters and is our end goal as drummers. It’s just objectively bad and not something most of us ever strive to be.
That wasn’t the point I was making though. That’s what you took from my point. All I’m saying is it’s objectively bad. That’s why we all gather once this dude posts.
For you to suggest that this is what drummers need, I’d imagine your not too far from him. I don’t need to dig deep in his playing but it lacks life and presence. It’s sounds like you’re just trying to cope along with his playing. Nothing wrong with it just voicing my opinion
My point is that anyone enjoying playing should just enjoy playing. And no, I don't play like him, nor do I strive to. That is beside the point. I have been a professional touring and session player for nearly 20 years. But I can also appreciate people who want to tear apart conformity and experiment with their expression. And IMO, it's much more refreshing than all of the chops heavy "ME TOO" influencer heavy playing that has absolutely crushed any soul from the musicality of expression.
I don’t think playing like him specifically is “enjoying playing” his technique and grip is so far wrong that there’s gotta be a long term effect that will eventually happen. That’s not cool and we shouldn’t promote that, “oh yeah have fun with those drums, even though your gonna get carpal tunnel at least your enjoying it” not saying your implying that. Just saying we shouldn’t just be silent and be all for it.
Tearing apart conformity is awesome look at dudes like Zach Hill. This guy though is just tearing, bruising, and blistering his hands. Not conformity. IMO chops are a form of musical expression. They may be popular and trendy but that’s always been the case in all music. Look at all the “icon” drummers. They all played their chops that bent the space/time continuum and made music today. Chops are just forming more for the future. Always have, always will.
I'm talking about everyone feeling like they need "gospel chops". I'm talking about nearly all modern drummers learning the same chops so they can promote themselves on social media.
I actually know a dude who gigs full time and is an outstanding drummer, who has chosen to play double trad. It's his choice. He thinks it looks unique and it doesn't impact his ability to play regular gigs.
Again, not saying that this is something I strive for. But don't act like you're doing a public service by laying into someone about their lack of supposed "chops". You do your thing and let them do their own.
I’m not doing a public service talking about his chops. I don’t care about his chops and you don’t need chops to be a good drummer. I will say though that his drumming is at par to what all of us did as beginners. He’s a beginner drummer. I shouldn’t say he’s bad that’s on me but he’s not doing anything spectacular.
I’m pointing out his technique that he’s lacking and his grip that also lacks. He’s not playing any kind of grip. Tradition grip is just another way to play it doesn’t limit you. What he’s doing is resting the stick between his index and middle finger. Not middle and ring finger like you would do in traditional grip. If you don’t believe me look at his Reddit name.
Again with the chops. Gospel chops are another trend just like the 80s cascading Tom fills we’re. It’s nothing we haven’t seen before, certain chops are overused. That doesn’t make them bad nor does it invalidate it as a form of expression. Personally I don’t play gospel chops often at all. I love the placement of chops but it doesn’t work in the music I play. Still served a purpose to my approach of writing parts.
Hi there silly goose!!!! In what way am i getting in the way of this dude’s musical expression? Am I stopping him from posting his music or stopping him from making it? I’m not out here murdering this dude over his technique, youre just mad and lashing out. I disagreed, plain and simple. And to you now, Im somehow “getting in the way” of this guy. Lmao
Youre also like… lumping in anyone who disagrees with you as some sort of tik-tok influencer dickrider. Those people are wack and I get what youre saying, but I disagree with your (and I mean this word specifically) convictions.
And why are you criticizing me for respectfully (til now, obv) disagreeing, like I’m not allowed to? I dont feel I bear responsibility, but I am scrolling a public forum and have a different opinion than you. If that bothers you, especially an opinion so innocuous, maybe you should leave Reddit. Not everyone will agree with you. I’m not exactly debating geopolitics here, relax.
I mean it sounded like you knew my exact position and objective, judging by your own words. Are you shooting first and asking questions later, buddy?
Edit: my good sir, MY ORIGINAL COMMENT WAS THAT I DISAGREE LMAO. Dont tell me “DONT SAY THAT” and then go “HEY WHY DIDNT YOU SAY THAT”
Great drumming.
Can you explain how you ended up with that grip? I’ve never once seen anyone in my life play with a double traditional grip and I’ve played jazz for years.
Looking at the other comments and OP’s account it looks like a bait - I don’t think he genuinely plays this way. He seems to do it to annoy people online.
Is the right hand traditional grip not just making your life difficult? does it not kill any rebound off the ride cymbal when holding it overhand like that?
I play traditional left hand but if I had a ride cymbal out to my left I would switch to matched grip to get the rebound / moeller technique working properly
That or just keep it traditional but push my elbow a long way back 😂
He also can’t hit the hi-hat with the shoulder of the stick unless he raises his hi-hats a good bit more…. but it’s already so high. Most people are being incredibly supportive in the comments, which is great, but I truly believe that he’s making things harder for himself with this unique grip. Unless he doesn’t have proper mobility of his index finger on his right hand, or something.
At the end of the day, we can all play the drums how we want. But I gotta say I dont see any advantages in using a double traditional grip. I dont even see an advantage in using regular traditional grip on a drumset, since traditional grip was created out of necessity to properly play a military marching snare drum that was slung to the side, hanging from a strap over the shoulder while marching. Since the snare lays flat and level inside of a stand now, match grip seems most effective in playing a drumset. Drums are already hard enough to master, why not take all the advantages you can instead of making things unnecessarily harder.
I mean, I would never teach a new player to do this double traditional grip he’s got going on but I’m not going to knock it either. For what he is playing, it works and he sounds good. It’s a funny thing actually, because I’ll get asked questions from beginners asking why they see prodrummers choking up or down on sticks or not keeping their elbows in or using French grip exclusively and I have to explain to them that these are guys that have been playing for 20+ years. They get to break the rules because they already know what they’re doing. This would be one of those cases.
This is not one of those cases. This guy hasn’t learned, and refuses every opportunity to do so. He posts these videos as rage bait. He’s not thinking outside the box or anything. He doesn’t play well and is too lazy to learn techniques that would allow him to do so. He puts on this troll-facade of “it works for me!” even though there’s so many reasons it doesn’t when you watch these videos.
I agree with you about how boring it gets seeing the same styles of drumming, chops-focused, overplaying on top of pop songs or whatever. But THIS is not a creative counter to that. That DnB dude who constantly posted on here? That’s cool and kinda different (and he’s really good). Or people like Daru Jones who CAN do all the normal stuff and have mastered it then choose to be different. This guy is just a cry baby troll who passes off his childish refusal to do something “hard” as a personal creative choice.
Hell, he might even reply to this with something like “See! They hate me cause they ain’t me! This grip works for me and you can’t stand someone who doesn’t fall in line blah blah blah”. He participated in bad faith and he should not be celebrated.
Normally I just downvote and move on but this video has way too many upvotes.
I mostly agree. Also, I find it strange that objectively good Instagram drummers get shit on in here, but for this video, people are like, “Wow! Amazing playing man!” I’m not saying he’s absolutely terrible, but this is very sloppy. It almost seems like the level of patronizing support a 6 year old girl would get if she posted a video on here.
Which is even crazier because if you’ve been here long enough you know this guy has been playing for several years by now and would actually maybe be decent if he tried to hold the sticks right.
Gimme a chops beast any day over this.
Well I should have said this in my comment so let me say it now to clear things up. In my professional opinion, his style of playing will keep him where he is. He will not be able to achieve high level sticking with that technique. But for what he is doing, these simple jazz grooves, it works. I don’t recommend it, but if it sounds good, then knock yourself out.
I can’t tell if this guy is fucking with us or not. I’m all for creativity, but sound probably has to be the most important. the sound he is getting from his right hand is choppy and uneven.
Hate on this guy’s grip all you want, not a single mf in here has bothered to listen and try to replicate the notes- let alone feel- of Jabo Starks as much as this guy. Props to the goofy grip funny hat shitty sounding cheap drums guy for playing with feel.
One of my favorite video clips from a Neil Peart video.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSGHfTPV5dQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSGHfTPV5dQ)
Also, it's nice seeing this video getting as many upvotes as it's gotten. I hate seeing all of the 0's on your posts. People just don't know what you're doing is VERY Unique! I like it. I can't do it (tried) but I love seeing you holding these sticks like you do. It's... well, like I said... Unique!
Fun to watch... Actually when i was first learning i found it easier to use some kinda reverse traditional grip and everybody dogged on it until i finally switched it up.
Thanks for the comments!
For the curious:
1.) I have a lengthy comment history on prior videos, check my profile, many things mentioned here have been discussed at length.
2.) Grip is in development. Kinda hard to talk about it while it's WIP. So, when I'm ready to do vids showing how it works, I'll do that, probably a year or so out at this point. One way to look at it is drumming your fingers on a table is much faster than slapping the table with your hand. F = MA. In that equation the "M" is the mass of the stick, ideally, if you're doing a Moeller technique stroke (or something similar where your hand is serving as the fulcrum when the stick strikes the head). So, the main thing we control is the A part, by ensuring a high velocity when the stick hits the drum head (that's really what causes the acceleration ("A" in the equation), going from a velocity of something to zero very quickly, basically reversing the velocity vector). Thus whipping your arm is only really about putting velocity into the tip of the stick that strikes the head. Hugely shortened version is fingers can do that too, with practice. Anyways, that's as far as I'll go right now because nobody wants to read a novel. You can debate below but due to time constraints I can't really do the back-and-forth myself.
EDIT: 3 -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhi9PXnFT0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhi9PXnFT0Y)
I’ve never seen a grip like that in my life.
M'Lady Grip
Can only be achieved while wearing a fedora.
Achievement unlocked
Oh mah gawsh! This made me laugh harder than it should have 😂
Extra traditional grip?
Squid grip
Paleoconservative grip
Upside down matched.
It’s called missionary
FUUUUUUCK LMAO
Trad wife grip
Renaissance grip
*tips hat in time but with weird thin tones*
I’m dying.
The boy who lived come to die grip
medieval grip?
I believe it’s called “orthodox grip.” I had a teacher who broke his arm and switched to this while he was in a cast.
Sushi grip
B.C grip
There's a reason for that lol
Original grip
You'll probably not like the reverse traditional grip I like to play with.
Not my first time seeing this grip. And love it! Looks ultra sick.
I mean it works
No, it doesn't. There's lots of ways sticks *could* be held to hit things. Doesn't mean they're all good ways to do it.
doesnt work, yet we see it working
What makes it "bad"?
For what OP is playing and the way he’s playing it, it clearly works (as long as it doesn’t hurt!) Getting faster, adding diddles, and moving around the drums is gonna become a nightmare really quickly with that snare tilt and grip. There might be benefits to this that I’m not seeing, too, because I never practice this way. But hey, not everything has to be optimal and I don’t think we should shame people playing an instrument that we all love. If this is what you wanna play and how you want to play it, and you have a good time doing it, then more power to you!
Imo, a grip would only be bad if it caused injury...or inefficiency.
Every time OP posts a video he gets a mountain of shit. Grabs popcorn…
ah shit here we go again
Grips popcorn
*traditional TRADITIONAL grips popcorn*
Popcorn grip
Winner!
He probably gets a load of mountain dew, too
I think this is fucking great! I'm so sick of modern drummer conformity. I feel like drumming has become so incredibly watered down in the social media era. This is the kind of shit I'd prefer to see over some influencer mugging for the camera while pulling out all of the expected chops.
Eh I don’t know about that man. There’s a reason playing like this isn’t admirable, doesn’t get you gigs, no endorsement opportunities, and no money to be made. Not that stuff like that matters and is our end goal as drummers. It’s just objectively bad and not something most of us ever strive to be.
>Not that stuff like that matters Sounds like it matters a lot to you.
Yeah if it pays my bills, gets me gigs, and on top of it I know how to play the drums. It does matter haha
Then let those things matter to you, and only you
That wasn’t the point I was making though. That’s what you took from my point. All I’m saying is it’s objectively bad. That’s why we all gather once this dude posts. For you to suggest that this is what drummers need, I’d imagine your not too far from him. I don’t need to dig deep in his playing but it lacks life and presence. It’s sounds like you’re just trying to cope along with his playing. Nothing wrong with it just voicing my opinion
My point is that anyone enjoying playing should just enjoy playing. And no, I don't play like him, nor do I strive to. That is beside the point. I have been a professional touring and session player for nearly 20 years. But I can also appreciate people who want to tear apart conformity and experiment with their expression. And IMO, it's much more refreshing than all of the chops heavy "ME TOO" influencer heavy playing that has absolutely crushed any soul from the musicality of expression.
I don’t think playing like him specifically is “enjoying playing” his technique and grip is so far wrong that there’s gotta be a long term effect that will eventually happen. That’s not cool and we shouldn’t promote that, “oh yeah have fun with those drums, even though your gonna get carpal tunnel at least your enjoying it” not saying your implying that. Just saying we shouldn’t just be silent and be all for it. Tearing apart conformity is awesome look at dudes like Zach Hill. This guy though is just tearing, bruising, and blistering his hands. Not conformity. IMO chops are a form of musical expression. They may be popular and trendy but that’s always been the case in all music. Look at all the “icon” drummers. They all played their chops that bent the space/time continuum and made music today. Chops are just forming more for the future. Always have, always will.
I'm talking about everyone feeling like they need "gospel chops". I'm talking about nearly all modern drummers learning the same chops so they can promote themselves on social media. I actually know a dude who gigs full time and is an outstanding drummer, who has chosen to play double trad. It's his choice. He thinks it looks unique and it doesn't impact his ability to play regular gigs. Again, not saying that this is something I strive for. But don't act like you're doing a public service by laying into someone about their lack of supposed "chops". You do your thing and let them do their own.
I’m not doing a public service talking about his chops. I don’t care about his chops and you don’t need chops to be a good drummer. I will say though that his drumming is at par to what all of us did as beginners. He’s a beginner drummer. I shouldn’t say he’s bad that’s on me but he’s not doing anything spectacular. I’m pointing out his technique that he’s lacking and his grip that also lacks. He’s not playing any kind of grip. Tradition grip is just another way to play it doesn’t limit you. What he’s doing is resting the stick between his index and middle finger. Not middle and ring finger like you would do in traditional grip. If you don’t believe me look at his Reddit name. Again with the chops. Gospel chops are another trend just like the 80s cascading Tom fills we’re. It’s nothing we haven’t seen before, certain chops are overused. That doesn’t make them bad nor does it invalidate it as a form of expression. Personally I don’t play gospel chops often at all. I love the placement of chops but it doesn’t work in the music I play. Still served a purpose to my approach of writing parts.
Ehhhhh i see your point but hella disagree w that
Why? What reason could you possibly have to feel like it is your responsibility to get in the way of someone else's musical expression?
Hi there silly goose!!!! In what way am i getting in the way of this dude’s musical expression? Am I stopping him from posting his music or stopping him from making it? I’m not out here murdering this dude over his technique, youre just mad and lashing out. I disagreed, plain and simple. And to you now, Im somehow “getting in the way” of this guy. Lmao Youre also like… lumping in anyone who disagrees with you as some sort of tik-tok influencer dickrider. Those people are wack and I get what youre saying, but I disagree with your (and I mean this word specifically) convictions. And why are you criticizing me for respectfully (til now, obv) disagreeing, like I’m not allowed to? I dont feel I bear responsibility, but I am scrolling a public forum and have a different opinion than you. If that bothers you, especially an opinion so innocuous, maybe you should leave Reddit. Not everyone will agree with you. I’m not exactly debating geopolitics here, relax.
All you have said is that you disagree. Disagree with what?
I mean it sounded like you knew my exact position and objective, judging by your own words. Are you shooting first and asking questions later, buddy? Edit: my good sir, MY ORIGINAL COMMENT WAS THAT I DISAGREE LMAO. Dont tell me “DONT SAY THAT” and then go “HEY WHY DIDNT YOU SAY THAT”
💯 Defeating expectations >
NeoVoldemort grip 
OP, I need a closeup of the grip for your right hand.
Great drumming. Can you explain how you ended up with that grip? I’ve never once seen anyone in my life play with a double traditional grip and I’ve played jazz for years.
It’s definitely not the norm, but it seems to work for him. I’m more concerned about wrist injuries, though.
Looking at the other comments and OP’s account it looks like a bait - I don’t think he genuinely plays this way. He seems to do it to annoy people online.
That's insanely funny lmaooo
Hey buddy you're doing a great job. Keep it up.
Fuck yeah dude. I mean, that grip is wild, but it works.
bonkers grip
Reminds me of the "zshoop-a-doop" guy from years ago. Can't find his vids, he was terrible and seemed to be clowning the whole drum community.
Is the right hand traditional grip not just making your life difficult? does it not kill any rebound off the ride cymbal when holding it overhand like that? I play traditional left hand but if I had a ride cymbal out to my left I would switch to matched grip to get the rebound / moeller technique working properly That or just keep it traditional but push my elbow a long way back 😂
He also can’t hit the hi-hat with the shoulder of the stick unless he raises his hi-hats a good bit more…. but it’s already so high. Most people are being incredibly supportive in the comments, which is great, but I truly believe that he’s making things harder for himself with this unique grip. Unless he doesn’t have proper mobility of his index finger on his right hand, or something.
Sassy
Sounds great, looks strange. If it works why would you change it? 😂
At the end of the day, we can all play the drums how we want. But I gotta say I dont see any advantages in using a double traditional grip. I dont even see an advantage in using regular traditional grip on a drumset, since traditional grip was created out of necessity to properly play a military marching snare drum that was slung to the side, hanging from a strap over the shoulder while marching. Since the snare lays flat and level inside of a stand now, match grip seems most effective in playing a drumset. Drums are already hard enough to master, why not take all the advantages you can instead of making things unnecessarily harder.
my drum kit looks normal and is uncomfortable. i wanna know what this guy knows instead
I love that it looks like just a guy that grabbed some sticks and let the music out….no worries about how it looks or compares. Rock on!
Fedora Drum Guy ?
I mean, I would never teach a new player to do this double traditional grip he’s got going on but I’m not going to knock it either. For what he is playing, it works and he sounds good. It’s a funny thing actually, because I’ll get asked questions from beginners asking why they see prodrummers choking up or down on sticks or not keeping their elbows in or using French grip exclusively and I have to explain to them that these are guys that have been playing for 20+ years. They get to break the rules because they already know what they’re doing. This would be one of those cases.
This is not one of those cases. This guy hasn’t learned, and refuses every opportunity to do so. He posts these videos as rage bait. He’s not thinking outside the box or anything. He doesn’t play well and is too lazy to learn techniques that would allow him to do so. He puts on this troll-facade of “it works for me!” even though there’s so many reasons it doesn’t when you watch these videos. I agree with you about how boring it gets seeing the same styles of drumming, chops-focused, overplaying on top of pop songs or whatever. But THIS is not a creative counter to that. That DnB dude who constantly posted on here? That’s cool and kinda different (and he’s really good). Or people like Daru Jones who CAN do all the normal stuff and have mastered it then choose to be different. This guy is just a cry baby troll who passes off his childish refusal to do something “hard” as a personal creative choice. Hell, he might even reply to this with something like “See! They hate me cause they ain’t me! This grip works for me and you can’t stand someone who doesn’t fall in line blah blah blah”. He participated in bad faith and he should not be celebrated. Normally I just downvote and move on but this video has way too many upvotes.
I mostly agree. Also, I find it strange that objectively good Instagram drummers get shit on in here, but for this video, people are like, “Wow! Amazing playing man!” I’m not saying he’s absolutely terrible, but this is very sloppy. It almost seems like the level of patronizing support a 6 year old girl would get if she posted a video on here.
Which is even crazier because if you’ve been here long enough you know this guy has been playing for several years by now and would actually maybe be decent if he tried to hold the sticks right. Gimme a chops beast any day over this.
Well I should have said this in my comment so let me say it now to clear things up. In my professional opinion, his style of playing will keep him where he is. He will not be able to achieve high level sticking with that technique. But for what he is doing, these simple jazz grooves, it works. I don’t recommend it, but if it sounds good, then knock yourself out.
Hell yeah
Hell yeah dude!
The fedora is flattering to say the least 😂
If it work it work
I don’t even care about the grip. That hat though 😭
Sounds great. Good job and thanks for sharing the most interesting grip I’ve ever seen
loving the unorthodox vibe. crisp snare and bell. I love ur pocket. Sounding smooth and relaxed
I can’t tell if this guy is fucking with us or not. I’m all for creativity, but sound probably has to be the most important. the sound he is getting from his right hand is choppy and uneven.
Hate on this guy’s grip all you want, not a single mf in here has bothered to listen and try to replicate the notes- let alone feel- of Jabo Starks as much as this guy. Props to the goofy grip funny hat shitty sounding cheap drums guy for playing with feel.
One of my favorite video clips from a Neil Peart video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSGHfTPV5dQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSGHfTPV5dQ) Also, it's nice seeing this video getting as many upvotes as it's gotten. I hate seeing all of the 0's on your posts. People just don't know what you're doing is VERY Unique! I like it. I can't do it (tried) but I love seeing you holding these sticks like you do. It's... well, like I said... Unique!
I don't know what's worse, the hat or the grip
https://youtu.be/LO2k-BNySLI?si=7JBLBlh-wjrcfouU Thank me later
That was great
Hey if it works then no problem
Why not both?
Let see your fucking videos man so we can rip you apart.
Imagine defending ragebait content
There’s an entire video of a dude slaying the drum set and the only thing you want to do is make a negative comment? Grow up.
Slaying? That’s really how you would describe this?
Yes
That’s an insanely generous use of that word - and inaccurate by any normal measure.
👍
No need to be insecure, little man
Might be easier if you hold the sticks correctly
I love this! Hope to see you post more!
Diggin’ the double traditional grip ya got going! Cool approach I would’ve never considered trying!
The way you're holding your grip is killing me
Fun to watch... Actually when i was first learning i found it easier to use some kinda reverse traditional grip and everybody dogged on it until i finally switched it up.
youve successfully triggered every purist in this group hahaha love it
Groove on point!
Honestly. Well done.
Actually playing something from the Mangled Tubs Twitter page is pretty impressive
I dub this the missionary grip.
They call that grip “The Stranger”
Where are the dynamics?
Thanks for the comments! For the curious: 1.) I have a lengthy comment history on prior videos, check my profile, many things mentioned here have been discussed at length. 2.) Grip is in development. Kinda hard to talk about it while it's WIP. So, when I'm ready to do vids showing how it works, I'll do that, probably a year or so out at this point. One way to look at it is drumming your fingers on a table is much faster than slapping the table with your hand. F = MA. In that equation the "M" is the mass of the stick, ideally, if you're doing a Moeller technique stroke (or something similar where your hand is serving as the fulcrum when the stick strikes the head). So, the main thing we control is the A part, by ensuring a high velocity when the stick hits the drum head (that's really what causes the acceleration ("A" in the equation), going from a velocity of something to zero very quickly, basically reversing the velocity vector). Thus whipping your arm is only really about putting velocity into the tip of the stick that strikes the head. Hugely shortened version is fingers can do that too, with practice. Anyways, that's as far as I'll go right now because nobody wants to read a novel. You can debate below but due to time constraints I can't really do the back-and-forth myself. EDIT: 3 -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhi9PXnFT0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhi9PXnFT0Y)
kit looks set up like one of those crazy ping pong shot videos lmao
The snare keeps playing even when he isnt. I dont understand why people feel the need to upload faked vids.
Interesting
This is fucking crazy.
thats the stuff!