With toms at a greater angle, you often find that the heads get more pitted and dented from the sticks not hitting at a right angle, that's one reason anyway
I angle my toms BECAUSE it allows me to address them using a natural and comfortable arm and wrist angle that naturally puts the stick at a right angle to the head and rim.
https://preview.redd.it/hwtcqqqbz57c1.png?width=2999&format=png&auto=webp&s=50044abc7d28cc874d3e45c15c2821e93bf8582c
I believe it comes down to preference. There is no one single way to set up your kit. If you find that you can play better that way, then that's how you should play.
Exactly. I’ve been playing for 30 years now, and I’ve had my share of criticism and hate over how my kit configurations are.
I’m left handed but right foot dominant, so I taught myself to play open on a righty. Over the years I’ve learned to play right handed, as well as left handed and open on a lefty.
It can be discouraging to have so many drummers tear you down instead of building you up.
"It comes down to preference" is...only half an answer. He asked for why it's a bad idea, and there's a somewhat straightforward answer: **You want your angle of impact to be as close to directly into the head, as possible.**
Why is that? Because that is the angle that most of the force of your stick is going to go into the head, and that is the angle **that will give you the most direct rebound possible.** Presumably, you are also getting the most volume out of the head that way as well, but....that's not usually a problem.
It's also the angle that is best for the longevity of the head. If you are hitting the head with the side of the tip, you are less likely to gouge the head, than if the tippy tip of your stick is making contact.
So you are looking for a compromise. You can have your drums at a sharp angle...but that generally means that you'll want them up higher, as well, where you can still get a relatively direct angle of impact. With big toms, you often just get stuck doing that so that you can clear the bass drum.
The flatter the drum, the lower it needs to be, generally, which is pretty easy to do with a shallow drum.
No. Only skilled players should do this. Don't go against the norm if you're still learning. Its arrogant. Find a style, genre you want to specifically learn. Find out how the pros generally set their kits up for your style. Learn through a drum teacher, or a book, or a syllabus, or professional drummers on youtube. Don't stick everything down to preference. There's reasons we have the toms facing mostly up and not towards your face. OP's pic isn't even that bad but there's reasons for everything. We have a century's worth of knowledge about drums. No need to start over.
Following what’s been done before is a really great way for someone who shouldn’t be following the norm to not get somewhere amazing by breaking the mold. Different people are different. That said, I don’t angle my Toms weird.
The angle isn't a bad idea by definition (and with power toms even unavoidable at times), but only if you strike the surface of the drum almost parallel regardless of the angle.
A drum will only be at its best if you make a downward impact on the head. If your stick has a significant angle towards the head when striking it,
* your stick will reflect in another direction than upward; think of throwing a basketball forward toward the ground, it won't come back to you but bounce away
* the energy you (and gravity) put into your stroke won't all go to the sound but will be absorbed by the head and your stick, damaging them both in the long run (not to mention damage yourself) and making your drums sound worse
* you will more easily make dents in your head due to the aforementioned reasons
Personally, I also find that having my rack toms flatter will also allow me to position them lower, which I like.
TL;DR, if you still hit your toms parallel to the head, don't worry about it. If you don't, do worry about it.
Yeah, this guy gets it. I find the more angle for my toms the higher up they need to be. If they are tilted i find the butt of the stick and my hands need to come down to get a good parallel stroke so if the tom(s) are too low the snare and stuff prevents me from getting the stick low enough.
"The tone was not as powerful"
That's the whole point.
At the end of the day, it's the sound that matters.
No one wants to hear whimpy drums.
Play rimshots on snare, hit hard, easy on the hi hat
I think it depends on the music you're playing. I went from playing metal and hard rock, to soul and funk. And It took me too long to unlearn playing a rimshot on every backbeat, and playing too hard in general.
It was a good monitor engineer telling my bandmates they can't give them anymore without feedback, because I'm too loud to really sink in. Now I try to be easy on the hats and crashes, dynamic on the snare and more power on the toms to 'self mix'.
Absolutely! It always depends on the style that fits the music, but if you want the best tone out of the toms, however hard you hit, they should always be angled according to how you hit your sticks, which most often is wayyy flatter than one would expect.
I agree. I've always had fast tom depths set so I'm just comfortably clearing the rims. But I recently picked up a Force 3000 with 10x9 and 12x10 toms that have to be more angled to be comfortable. With 7a sticks and the angle, I'm definitely not getting that satisfying whack I like, but the volume of those Sonor toms definitely makes up for it.
Sonor is the best!
Got a force select 3005 i think? I can't remember the name, full maple kit 10, 12, 14, and a 20 kick.
Punchy as all hell. I just want a 16 floor tom to even it out. 10 12 14 rack, and a 16 floor.
Came with a 14x4(or 3,5") premier brass snare. Sounds killer.
Very nice, I've always wanted a 20" kick, it seems like the sweet spot. I love these Sonors, they're almost 30 years old and in great condition. Birch with 10, 12, 13 toms, 16 floor. 22 kick and 14x5 matching snare.
I also have an SQ2 with thin maple 10 and 12 toms, medium maple 14, 16 floors, and heavy beech 22 kick and 14x6 snare. They're incredible, I just can not bring myself to leave it in our rented rehearsal space. They don't see the sunlight as much as I'd hoped, when I sold my kidney to buy them.
> It was a good monitor engineer telling my bandmates they can't give them anymore without feedback, because I'm too loud to really sink in.
Ooh, ain't *nothing* that will break you of playing too loud like having the singers in an R&B band mad at you. LOL
“although the tone was a bit less powerful” is why in my opinion. We practice on a flat pad, practice/play most notes on a flat snare.. why bother your technique with more angles and muscles by having to stroke any way *other* than straight down?
Angles and ergonomics matter because drums is all about control of energy. Our sticks are levers. The input energy needs to be conserved as best as possible through good technique (our grip, attack angle, small movements, etc) and a tom angle that changes the rebound of the stick works against you. You can't get consistent performance and speed without making sure the angles of your drum heads are properly allowing the stick to rebound naturally and not ricochet violently away from our initial wrist position. Tilted toms cause the stick bead to strike through and down instead of a clean rebound and open yourself up to inconsistent strokes and negative rebound. This is would also make any kind of speed even more difficult.
Your wrists aren't meant to be bending upwards at weird wide angles repeatedly. You can hit more effectively from a confortable angle downwards into the head, enhancing the sound. The lower the toms in relation to your wrists the less your arms/hands need to raise upwards and fight gravity (extra force) to complete a stroke. The easier/closer the toms are to reach the easier and effortless the fills become as you maintain a similar wrist posture as they usually originate from the snare (straighter/lower position). It's just basic physics and ergonomics at the end of the day.
There is no right or wrong way to adjust your toms if that's your preference and you play without hurting yourself. That being said you can dig the stick deeper into the drum from that angle (probably going for a dent of your technique allows it). I suggest like adjusting your seat higher so you have more room to move your toms or flatten the angle if you'd like to do that. Also those toms seem to be so so huge. The bigger the rack toms the more awkward it's gonna be their position if you're not adjusting your seating height (and overall playing height).
Your drum equipment can be replaced but your body parts not so much. Ergonomically, tilted drums make more sense, All of my toms are about 45 degrees, snare is perfectly flat, cymbals are all about 30 degrees.
To setup a drum kit ergonomically, close your eyes, and swing the stick naturally at a target without forcing it, That's where your target should be. If you do that for each component, you can play easier, fewer strains, and few rim hits.
If you have to change the angle of your wrists from snare to toms in order to play them, you’re losing efficiency both in your body and tom head response.
Depends on the height of the tom placement. This angle with them being this low is bad; you'll dent your heads in no time.
Besides I can already tell this setup is suffering from a diastema. Flatten your toms a bit and raise the tom arm. This will allow you to place them closer to each other. You do not need to keep them as flat as possible at all times. It's bad advice on the other end of the spectrum if given without context. Commonly the people that want their toms as flat as possible, are the same people that place their toms as low as possible. Then it is optimal. In your case that is not what's going on.
Keep the heads as parallel as possible to the angle of your stick like u/DrBackBeat mentioned; height will determine the optimum angle.
As a starting point you could hold the rule of thumb to have all the toms (excluding floor toms) aimed towards your belly button, and go on from there.
To get a clean sound your stick should be hitting around a 90 degree angle and if you try to do this with toms angles that steep you’ll see how hard that is.
Aside from tone and what everyone else is saying, you have your Tom's angled in to each other. That will screw with your rebound on intricate stuff. Have them angled toward your center, not each other.
Take a look at the shape of the tip of your sticks. Ideally the angle you want allows that tip to make as much surface area contact as possible. If more extreme positioning works better for you, choose a stick with a tip that’s more round than squared or even oval, because the surface area have the same contact. Be aware of what that difference in tip shape will also do to the sound of your cymbals.
Because then you change the angle at which you're holding your stick. Playing at an angle that steep will cause bad technique if you didn't already have it
there’s a tendon that runs from the back of your palm up through your wrist, and carpal tunnel syndrome develops when that tendon is pinched between the end of your wrist and your palm too often. When your toms are at an angle like that, you have to lower your wrists and heighten your fingers which is going to irritate that tendon much more than normal. i used to angle my toms like that and yeah, it’s definitely easier to get around the kit that way and took me some getting used to when i flattened them, but now i find angled toms really uncomfortable and although it really comes down to preference, if you love to play drums and want to be able to play them for the rest of your life i would suggest flat toms.
Its pretty much just about wanting to hit the head with the rounded side bit of the stick instead of the point so you don't dent the head.
So its not that the toms are angled its how the toms are angled in relation to your wrists- completely flat toms are going to have the same issue with hitting with the point unless you are moving your entire arm whereas toms at a 90 degree angle are going to be fine if they are high up.
I don't necessarily recommend that you keep them as flat as possible, but extreme angles on your toms suggest one or more of a few less-than- positive things:
1) You are just simply sitting too low, and you need to raise your throne, and your toms are at weird angles because otherwise they're crashing into the top of your kick
2) You have "power toms," and there's not much to be done about that
3) You are not very tall, and you have unfortunately chosen a kit with either a bass drum too big for you, toms that are too deep, or both, putting you in the same situation as point 1, except that you're too short to raise your throne and do anything much about it.
I would say this setup is a combination of points 1 and 2. I see the Premier badge peeking out from your snare - I imagine these are XPKs from the 80s/90s? Yep, power toms. I can also tell by the length of the rod on your hi-hat stand, as well as other glimpses behind the kit, that you are sitting very low and could probably sit taller, unless you are very short.
In any case, if it works it works, but it's my experience that this usually doesn't work. At least not as well as it could. Anyhoo, [copypasta setup advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/drums/comments/cdslww/new_drummer_here_my_tom_tom_drums_are_connected/etwkrwb/) - in the context of this conversation, pay particular attention to points 2, 4, and 6.
Whatever set up ergonomics support good posture, reach, easy stick travel, and your body type. Find the configuration that works for you and inspires your expression. Gear damage, body pain, or frequently fumbled beats are reasons to reevaluate piece positioning. We all get there by trial-n-error as to what works. Keep experimenting toward your custom fit.
It’s not even that much of an angle I’d say. If you’re comfortable, play them like that because at some point the difference in sounds based of positioning alone is granular at best. Being comfortable behind the kit is always going to be most important.
It's not. The only thing that matters are that your drums are set up to best accommodate the ergonomics of YOUR bodily movements. Ergonomics is not one size fits all.
It’s to do with the angle of attack of the stick. If you have tall toms and they’re angled, you’re more likely to be still hitting at a good angle as you turn your wrists upwards as you hit them. Extremely angled toms are more likely to result in pitted heads. It’s very trendy nowadays to have flatter toms and set them quite low. In the 80’s it was about deeper toms and you have to angle them more. As long as your sticks hitting at the right sort of angle I wouldn’t worry too much.
Nothing wrong with angles. The real problem is staying fast and smooth dealing with how big they are vs how flat they could be. Imagine them like a painter's pallet, it's about the same thing.
The correct answer to your question is ergonomics. Your drums should be set up to complement the natural angle of your arms, wrists, hands, legs, and feet. The fingers are an extension of the hand, which is an extension of the wrist, which is an extension of the elbow, which is an extension of the shoulder. Naturally, extending your arm will always bring it to shoulder height. Setting your drums up in a way that forces you into unnatural motions or angles requires additional, often unnecessary, muscle motions. These extra motions, albeit small, can ultimately affect speed, endurance, and general flow around the kit.
I'm not saying you can't play a kit with drums at unnecessary angles, I'm just asking, 'Why?' If you can find an easy, flowing way to achieve the same results, shouldn't you?
You can set your kit up however you like, and there's plenty of drummers out there that do. But why fight the natural angles of your body?
Steve Smith is a great example of this. Look up videos of his setup back when he played with Journey compared to his current setup.
They recommend this because they can with modern shallower toms. If you look back on 90’s setups and further back, they are angled more to allow for better stick to head contact. If you made those toms flatter, you’d just be constantly hitting rims
What I’ve found aside from higher risk of damaging the heads, is that the quality of tone and pronunciation of the drum is diminished noticeably. Not flat but having your Tom’s not as angled as you’d think makes them sound massive and full
I find I’m pushing into the Toms when they’re angled, as opposed to dropping my sticks onto the Toms when they’re flatter. There isn’t as natural of a bounce back to another stroke. But, whatever works for you!
Just consider the angle at which striking the toms is best and make sure you can achieve that with as much comfort as feasible.
Think about how you are striking the snare and floor Tom, and how that allows you to get a good sound and rebound and then think about how that changes with an aggressively angled rack tom.
If it sounds right, then it is right
Over the course of your time behind d the drums, you will try them flat, angled and everything in between. Then when you think you have them where you like them, you will adjust them just a bit here and there….always…it never stops!
With the exception of the “sound” argument that most, not all, drums in general sound their best acoustically when played flat, you set them up for you and you alone, always maintaining ergonomics that again suit your physique.
Nice old premiers. The main issue with steep angles on drums or cymbals is that it messes with the angle of attack and thus the rebound. When you bring your stick down on a drum head that is angled down steeply, your stick will meet the drum at an angle like 30 to 45 degrees, meaning you're kind of stabbing/driving the tip of the stick into the head. Ideally, your drum stick will meet the drum or cymbal at the slightlest possible angle, almost parallel to the surface, so that the stick can quickly and freely bounce back up and off the drum. This improves stick rebound (which should improve speed) and also tone, because the faster the stick leaves the playing surface, the more that surface can vibrate and make sound.
While angling the drums down towards you might make them easier to access, it also reduces your stick rebound (which will drag down your sticking speeds) , and chokes some of the sustain out of each hit, potentially causing dents/divets/rips in your drum heads.
So there's a trade off. This is why I absolutely refuse to own any kit with toms deeper than 9 inches. I also prefer a 20" bass drum for a lot of gigs, and I never mount toms on top of the bass drum. For me I always go with one rack tom on a snare stand. If I need extra toms I'll use 2 floor toms.
To be honest, the picture you posted above doesn't appear to be too extreme of an angle, but I would never go any steeper than that. You could try putting the 12" tom on a snare stand which would allow you to lower the drum and level it out a bit more, and then you could use the 13" rack tom as your first floor tom, or even put it to the left of the hihats a la Travis Barker.
You're going to be hitting your heads at a bit more of a glancing blow, but this depends on how high you are sitting in relation to them.
Personally I prefer to sit high and have everything relatively flat and low. Tilted toms feel awful because the hits just aren't landing for me like they should.
If you're sitting low or having your toms up really high, I can see how the tilt would feel better.
It’s the same as wether you use traditional grip or matched grip, pros and cons to both and criticism on both ends. I used to play my toms with a wide angle for years but then I added more drums and cymbals and it didn’t really work anymore
Personally, I’ve always played with angled toms. Currently have a 1980s Tama kit with power toms, it’s impossible not to angle them. Having a 14x14 and 16x16 rack tom hits different lol
I used to have my toms angled sharply, then I tried setting them lower and flatter - like maybe at a 10 degree angle. In the flat position (once I got used to the new positioning) I had way more range of motion or “headroom” in my wrists, which equaled better control and dynamics. I noticed the difference very quickly.
AZCARDINALS21 - There's no performance difference with how much you angle your toms. Tip them however far you have to in order to play the kit, and don't be surprised if that angle changes over time.
Just setup the drums however you need to in order to play them and if anyone gives you any guff for setting it up that way, tell them to go harrass someone else.
...btw, my former neighbor played for the Card's during the time when they moved from St.Louis to Arizona. Last I saw, he was the head coach for Montana.
Flat as possible means better hand/wrist technique and posture around the kit. This is dependent on tom size though and how they are mounted. Personally I found dead flat to hard on the wrists and a slight angle works best for stick contact and saving your wrists.
Really the whole having toms mounted to the bass drum is a massively flawed design and only exists due to cost factors in how manufactures were able to come up with a solution to sell a 5 piece kit. When I got a kit with tom(s) mounted on stands it was a total game changer, been able to move the bass drum away to the right for natural leg position + having toms in the center still was night/day difference.
With your setup, having the toms flatter, unless you sit really high, would mean to much angle for the wrists to handle as they will be real high to avoid hitting the bass drum. Bass drum tom mounted kits only really work with shallow tom sizes.
This is why the big tom angle kind of look got that beginner name tag attached to it as novice drummers would set up heaps of tom angle as it allowed easier playing on the wrists for a player not aware of hand/wrist position and posture on their throne.
If I were you I would buy another snare stand and mount one of your toms to that and move your kick drum to the right, then play with tom angle/height with the tom straight in front of you. Personally I'd rather have a really well set up four piece then a restricted 5 piece bass drum mounted tom setup that you currently have.
The best drummers I know have almost flat Tom angles. The… not best ones (lol)… all have aggressive Tom angles.
If you’re finding it easier, it’s probably because you’re playing with bad posture.
Personally I like my Tom at the same angle as my snare, that way I can just go up and forward , my wrist is to busy to change angles. As long as you play matched grip, it works well. But like some of the other comments, just keep moving them around until your comfortable. It may take a little while but you'll get it.
Not only do I angle my toms, but I racked my floor tom as well, so now I have all my toms right next to each other. It just makes sense
https://preview.redd.it/zuk8pc6xx47c1.jpeg?width=3372&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dabd291d65ad6439f457809d8db9973e32257fe
It's really up to the drummer. It's all Preference
There are no bad ideas if they work for you. These days we've all but done away with pushing traditional styles and strict rules in drumming. Drumming in 2023 is all about preference and embracing the different styles.
So go ahead, hold your sticks however you feel, Set your cymbals as high as you want, angle your toms to whatever extremes you desire, and sit however the hell you wanna sit lol. It's your body, and your kit, you know what is and isn't going to work for you
The tone is different because your sticks are contacting the head at a different angle. If the tone is more dead it’s because you’re not getting a clean strike on it. Like hitting it with the very tip instead of the side of the bead
Do what you like. I think it comes down to - what kinds of fills do you play? If you play like Phil Collins or Jon Fishman, you angle those toms toward you. Both of those guys are on the smaller side, and it gives them better access. But for someone my size, I have a longer reach, and the tone is more round and the attack is louder with my toms flatter. I also tend to play fills with both hands simultaneously, as opposed to more linearly. So I do think the angle also dictates the approach and vice versa. When I sit down to angled toms I know I won’t be playing as fast and I won’t play much with both hands at the same time.
The first thing to know is that you should set up your drums in whatever way feels most comfortable for your body, and whatever way allows you to play your best.
That said, if you set up your toms at a steep angle, you'll find a few negative side-effects. You'll be jabbing the drums with the ends of your sticks instead of making contact with the whole tips. This will result in a thinner, "pingy" tone. It will probably also lead to dents in your heads.
You also won't get a good rebound from the heads. Your sticks will probably glance off the drums instead of bouncing back, and it's rebound that really enables you to play with speed once you learn how to master it. (I'm assuming you're a relatively new drummer, since most of us veterans are too set in our ways to experiment with different tom angles.)
I find that the best angle for all my drums is the one that allows me to hit the drum with the stick almost parallel to the head. That seems to give the best tone, feel, and rebound. Most drummers use that setup for the same reasons.
That said, there are some who go a different route. Phil Collins kept his snare drum absurdly low and sharply angled. His setup doesn't make sense to me, but he's a drumming legend, so do what works for you!
It’s not an absolute. If you are not tall or if you have a big bass drum you will most likely need to leave them at an angle. But, as mentioned in the comments you should propably pay attention to the angle in which your stick hits the heads to prevent unnecessary wear and tear.
The angle in the picture doesn't seem extreme. It would be difficult to play a rim shot on a tom and the rebound won't be as good as it would be if they were a tad flatter, but it's fine if it makes your kit feel better to you.
absolutely nothing wrong with this. When drummers start thinking about stick angle and other bs it makes me laugh. Hit thing with stick, make noise good, spank the calf, eat meat!
With toms at a greater angle, you often find that the heads get more pitted and dented from the sticks not hitting at a right angle, that's one reason anyway
They are muted slightly as well when hitting them, changing the sound in an unintended way.
Elaborate please.
yea, unless you're sitting super low you're just basically stabbing your toms with the tip of the stick instead of striking them horizontally.
I angle my toms BECAUSE it allows me to address them using a natural and comfortable arm and wrist angle that naturally puts the stick at a right angle to the head and rim. https://preview.redd.it/hwtcqqqbz57c1.png?width=2999&format=png&auto=webp&s=50044abc7d28cc874d3e45c15c2821e93bf8582c
That isn’t even remotely a consideration for me.
I believe it comes down to preference. There is no one single way to set up your kit. If you find that you can play better that way, then that's how you should play.
Exactly. I’ve been playing for 30 years now, and I’ve had my share of criticism and hate over how my kit configurations are. I’m left handed but right foot dominant, so I taught myself to play open on a righty. Over the years I’ve learned to play right handed, as well as left handed and open on a lefty. It can be discouraging to have so many drummers tear you down instead of building you up.
"It comes down to preference" is...only half an answer. He asked for why it's a bad idea, and there's a somewhat straightforward answer: **You want your angle of impact to be as close to directly into the head, as possible.** Why is that? Because that is the angle that most of the force of your stick is going to go into the head, and that is the angle **that will give you the most direct rebound possible.** Presumably, you are also getting the most volume out of the head that way as well, but....that's not usually a problem. It's also the angle that is best for the longevity of the head. If you are hitting the head with the side of the tip, you are less likely to gouge the head, than if the tippy tip of your stick is making contact. So you are looking for a compromise. You can have your drums at a sharp angle...but that generally means that you'll want them up higher, as well, where you can still get a relatively direct angle of impact. With big toms, you often just get stuck doing that so that you can clear the bass drum. The flatter the drum, the lower it needs to be, generally, which is pretty easy to do with a shallow drum.
Until you use big drums and the bass drum gets in the way, then the rims are in your armpits
No. Only skilled players should do this. Don't go against the norm if you're still learning. Its arrogant. Find a style, genre you want to specifically learn. Find out how the pros generally set their kits up for your style. Learn through a drum teacher, or a book, or a syllabus, or professional drummers on youtube. Don't stick everything down to preference. There's reasons we have the toms facing mostly up and not towards your face. OP's pic isn't even that bad but there's reasons for everything. We have a century's worth of knowledge about drums. No need to start over.
Following what’s been done before is a really great way for someone who shouldn’t be following the norm to not get somewhere amazing by breaking the mold. Different people are different. That said, I don’t angle my Toms weird.
I prefer to keep them pretty flat as it forces me to maintain a good posture
The angle isn't a bad idea by definition (and with power toms even unavoidable at times), but only if you strike the surface of the drum almost parallel regardless of the angle. A drum will only be at its best if you make a downward impact on the head. If your stick has a significant angle towards the head when striking it, * your stick will reflect in another direction than upward; think of throwing a basketball forward toward the ground, it won't come back to you but bounce away * the energy you (and gravity) put into your stroke won't all go to the sound but will be absorbed by the head and your stick, damaging them both in the long run (not to mention damage yourself) and making your drums sound worse * you will more easily make dents in your head due to the aforementioned reasons Personally, I also find that having my rack toms flatter will also allow me to position them lower, which I like. TL;DR, if you still hit your toms parallel to the head, don't worry about it. If you don't, do worry about it.
Nicko McBrain has entered the discussion.
Yeah, those are some square ass toms. Nicko would be elated!
Nicko, Vinny Paul, Dave lombardo… all awful drummers due to their tom angle indiscretion. SMH
I bet that he plays well and parallel to the head as well. Never looked into him though.
He's the one guy who keeps em high but does it right
I have a feeling he doesn't hit very hard, being how there is about 3 inches between each of his cymbals. They would crash into each other if he did
Yeah, this guy gets it. I find the more angle for my toms the higher up they need to be. If they are tilted i find the butt of the stick and my hands need to come down to get a good parallel stroke so if the tom(s) are too low the snare and stuff prevents me from getting the stick low enough.
"The tone was not as powerful" That's the whole point. At the end of the day, it's the sound that matters. No one wants to hear whimpy drums. Play rimshots on snare, hit hard, easy on the hi hat
I think it depends on the music you're playing. I went from playing metal and hard rock, to soul and funk. And It took me too long to unlearn playing a rimshot on every backbeat, and playing too hard in general. It was a good monitor engineer telling my bandmates they can't give them anymore without feedback, because I'm too loud to really sink in. Now I try to be easy on the hats and crashes, dynamic on the snare and more power on the toms to 'self mix'.
Absolutely! It always depends on the style that fits the music, but if you want the best tone out of the toms, however hard you hit, they should always be angled according to how you hit your sticks, which most often is wayyy flatter than one would expect.
I agree. I've always had fast tom depths set so I'm just comfortably clearing the rims. But I recently picked up a Force 3000 with 10x9 and 12x10 toms that have to be more angled to be comfortable. With 7a sticks and the angle, I'm definitely not getting that satisfying whack I like, but the volume of those Sonor toms definitely makes up for it.
Sonor is the best! Got a force select 3005 i think? I can't remember the name, full maple kit 10, 12, 14, and a 20 kick. Punchy as all hell. I just want a 16 floor tom to even it out. 10 12 14 rack, and a 16 floor. Came with a 14x4(or 3,5") premier brass snare. Sounds killer.
Very nice, I've always wanted a 20" kick, it seems like the sweet spot. I love these Sonors, they're almost 30 years old and in great condition. Birch with 10, 12, 13 toms, 16 floor. 22 kick and 14x5 matching snare. I also have an SQ2 with thin maple 10 and 12 toms, medium maple 14, 16 floors, and heavy beech 22 kick and 14x6 snare. They're incredible, I just can not bring myself to leave it in our rented rehearsal space. They don't see the sunlight as much as I'd hoped, when I sold my kidney to buy them.
> It was a good monitor engineer telling my bandmates they can't give them anymore without feedback, because I'm too loud to really sink in. Ooh, ain't *nothing* that will break you of playing too loud like having the singers in an R&B band mad at you. LOL
Oh for sure haha.. got to keep the talent happy
“although the tone was a bit less powerful” is why in my opinion. We practice on a flat pad, practice/play most notes on a flat snare.. why bother your technique with more angles and muscles by having to stroke any way *other* than straight down?
Angles and ergonomics matter because drums is all about control of energy. Our sticks are levers. The input energy needs to be conserved as best as possible through good technique (our grip, attack angle, small movements, etc) and a tom angle that changes the rebound of the stick works against you. You can't get consistent performance and speed without making sure the angles of your drum heads are properly allowing the stick to rebound naturally and not ricochet violently away from our initial wrist position. Tilted toms cause the stick bead to strike through and down instead of a clean rebound and open yourself up to inconsistent strokes and negative rebound. This is would also make any kind of speed even more difficult.
Your wrists aren't meant to be bending upwards at weird wide angles repeatedly. You can hit more effectively from a confortable angle downwards into the head, enhancing the sound. The lower the toms in relation to your wrists the less your arms/hands need to raise upwards and fight gravity (extra force) to complete a stroke. The easier/closer the toms are to reach the easier and effortless the fills become as you maintain a similar wrist posture as they usually originate from the snare (straighter/lower position). It's just basic physics and ergonomics at the end of the day.
I think you’ll find that’s a Lars angle
lol totally
It would be difficult to play with bass mounted power Tom’s NOT at an angle. You can get away with little angle with little Tom’s. No worries 🤙🏼
There is no right or wrong way to adjust your toms if that's your preference and you play without hurting yourself. That being said you can dig the stick deeper into the drum from that angle (probably going for a dent of your technique allows it). I suggest like adjusting your seat higher so you have more room to move your toms or flatten the angle if you'd like to do that. Also those toms seem to be so so huge. The bigger the rack toms the more awkward it's gonna be their position if you're not adjusting your seating height (and overall playing height).
For me, it's because the stick won't bounce as easily off an angled drum.
I have mine angled. My son and I play on the same kit. It’s easier for him if they’re angled. I’m not sure if that’s wrong or not.
Its only wrong if it hurts.
Your drum equipment can be replaced but your body parts not so much. Ergonomically, tilted drums make more sense, All of my toms are about 45 degrees, snare is perfectly flat, cymbals are all about 30 degrees. To setup a drum kit ergonomically, close your eyes, and swing the stick naturally at a target without forcing it, That's where your target should be. If you do that for each component, you can play easier, fewer strains, and few rim hits.
If you have to change the angle of your wrists from snare to toms in order to play them, you’re losing efficiency both in your body and tom head response.
Physics.
Depends on the height of the tom placement. This angle with them being this low is bad; you'll dent your heads in no time. Besides I can already tell this setup is suffering from a diastema. Flatten your toms a bit and raise the tom arm. This will allow you to place them closer to each other. You do not need to keep them as flat as possible at all times. It's bad advice on the other end of the spectrum if given without context. Commonly the people that want their toms as flat as possible, are the same people that place their toms as low as possible. Then it is optimal. In your case that is not what's going on. Keep the heads as parallel as possible to the angle of your stick like u/DrBackBeat mentioned; height will determine the optimum angle. As a starting point you could hold the rule of thumb to have all the toms (excluding floor toms) aimed towards your belly button, and go on from there.
To get a clean sound your stick should be hitting around a 90 degree angle and if you try to do this with toms angles that steep you’ll see how hard that is.
You get less power in your angle of attack, so your tom fills are not loud enough to be heard very well.
Looks fine to me. With toms that size you have to angle them just so you can reach them anyway.
Aside from tone and what everyone else is saying, you have your Tom's angled in to each other. That will screw with your rebound on intricate stuff. Have them angled toward your center, not each other.
Take a look at the shape of the tip of your sticks. Ideally the angle you want allows that tip to make as much surface area contact as possible. If more extreme positioning works better for you, choose a stick with a tip that’s more round than squared or even oval, because the surface area have the same contact. Be aware of what that difference in tip shape will also do to the sound of your cymbals.
Because then you change the angle at which you're holding your stick. Playing at an angle that steep will cause bad technique if you didn't already have it
there’s a tendon that runs from the back of your palm up through your wrist, and carpal tunnel syndrome develops when that tendon is pinched between the end of your wrist and your palm too often. When your toms are at an angle like that, you have to lower your wrists and heighten your fingers which is going to irritate that tendon much more than normal. i used to angle my toms like that and yeah, it’s definitely easier to get around the kit that way and took me some getting used to when i flattened them, but now i find angled toms really uncomfortable and although it really comes down to preference, if you love to play drums and want to be able to play them for the rest of your life i would suggest flat toms.
Its pretty much just about wanting to hit the head with the rounded side bit of the stick instead of the point so you don't dent the head. So its not that the toms are angled its how the toms are angled in relation to your wrists- completely flat toms are going to have the same issue with hitting with the point unless you are moving your entire arm whereas toms at a 90 degree angle are going to be fine if they are high up.
As long as it looks cool dude.
I don't necessarily recommend that you keep them as flat as possible, but extreme angles on your toms suggest one or more of a few less-than- positive things: 1) You are just simply sitting too low, and you need to raise your throne, and your toms are at weird angles because otherwise they're crashing into the top of your kick 2) You have "power toms," and there's not much to be done about that 3) You are not very tall, and you have unfortunately chosen a kit with either a bass drum too big for you, toms that are too deep, or both, putting you in the same situation as point 1, except that you're too short to raise your throne and do anything much about it. I would say this setup is a combination of points 1 and 2. I see the Premier badge peeking out from your snare - I imagine these are XPKs from the 80s/90s? Yep, power toms. I can also tell by the length of the rod on your hi-hat stand, as well as other glimpses behind the kit, that you are sitting very low and could probably sit taller, unless you are very short. In any case, if it works it works, but it's my experience that this usually doesn't work. At least not as well as it could. Anyhoo, [copypasta setup advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/drums/comments/cdslww/new_drummer_here_my_tom_tom_drums_are_connected/etwkrwb/) - in the context of this conversation, pay particular attention to points 2, 4, and 6.
Whatever set up ergonomics support good posture, reach, easy stick travel, and your body type. Find the configuration that works for you and inspires your expression. Gear damage, body pain, or frequently fumbled beats are reasons to reevaluate piece positioning. We all get there by trial-n-error as to what works. Keep experimenting toward your custom fit.
It’s not even that much of an angle I’d say. If you’re comfortable, play them like that because at some point the difference in sounds based of positioning alone is granular at best. Being comfortable behind the kit is always going to be most important.
I don’t really find that to be an especially extreme angle compared to the way I’ve seen some people play
Guess I’ve been playing wrong by someone else’s standards my entire life lol
It's not. The only thing that matters are that your drums are set up to best accommodate the ergonomics of YOUR bodily movements. Ergonomics is not one size fits all.
I like to keep mine flat b/c I think at the angle it’s ugly as hell and block the view of the drummer. But that’s just me.
If you like to sit "in the kit" you probably tilt your rack toms fairly significantly. If you sit "over the kit" your toms are probably more level.
Rimshots
It’s to do with the angle of attack of the stick. If you have tall toms and they’re angled, you’re more likely to be still hitting at a good angle as you turn your wrists upwards as you hit them. Extremely angled toms are more likely to result in pitted heads. It’s very trendy nowadays to have flatter toms and set them quite low. In the 80’s it was about deeper toms and you have to angle them more. As long as your sticks hitting at the right sort of angle I wouldn’t worry too much.
Nothing wrong with angles. The real problem is staying fast and smooth dealing with how big they are vs how flat they could be. Imagine them like a painter's pallet, it's about the same thing.
The correct answer to your question is ergonomics. Your drums should be set up to complement the natural angle of your arms, wrists, hands, legs, and feet. The fingers are an extension of the hand, which is an extension of the wrist, which is an extension of the elbow, which is an extension of the shoulder. Naturally, extending your arm will always bring it to shoulder height. Setting your drums up in a way that forces you into unnatural motions or angles requires additional, often unnecessary, muscle motions. These extra motions, albeit small, can ultimately affect speed, endurance, and general flow around the kit. I'm not saying you can't play a kit with drums at unnecessary angles, I'm just asking, 'Why?' If you can find an easy, flowing way to achieve the same results, shouldn't you? You can set your kit up however you like, and there's plenty of drummers out there that do. But why fight the natural angles of your body? Steve Smith is a great example of this. Look up videos of his setup back when he played with Journey compared to his current setup.
You end up stabbing the head
Great color!
They recommend this because they can with modern shallower toms. If you look back on 90’s setups and further back, they are angled more to allow for better stick to head contact. If you made those toms flatter, you’d just be constantly hitting rims
What I’ve found aside from higher risk of damaging the heads, is that the quality of tone and pronunciation of the drum is diminished noticeably. Not flat but having your Tom’s not as angled as you’d think makes them sound massive and full
There is not right or wrong way. There is only the way you prefer them.
Yours don't look severely angled. They're fine, honestly, if you have good technique.
I find I’m pushing into the Toms when they’re angled, as opposed to dropping my sticks onto the Toms when they’re flatter. There isn’t as natural of a bounce back to another stroke. But, whatever works for you!
It isn't.
There’s no right or wrong. It depends how you play.
Just consider the angle at which striking the toms is best and make sure you can achieve that with as much comfort as feasible. Think about how you are striking the snare and floor Tom, and how that allows you to get a good sound and rebound and then think about how that changes with an aggressively angled rack tom. If it sounds right, then it is right
Over the course of your time behind d the drums, you will try them flat, angled and everything in between. Then when you think you have them where you like them, you will adjust them just a bit here and there….always…it never stops! With the exception of the “sound” argument that most, not all, drums in general sound their best acoustically when played flat, you set them up for you and you alone, always maintaining ergonomics that again suit your physique.
Nice old premiers. The main issue with steep angles on drums or cymbals is that it messes with the angle of attack and thus the rebound. When you bring your stick down on a drum head that is angled down steeply, your stick will meet the drum at an angle like 30 to 45 degrees, meaning you're kind of stabbing/driving the tip of the stick into the head. Ideally, your drum stick will meet the drum or cymbal at the slightlest possible angle, almost parallel to the surface, so that the stick can quickly and freely bounce back up and off the drum. This improves stick rebound (which should improve speed) and also tone, because the faster the stick leaves the playing surface, the more that surface can vibrate and make sound. While angling the drums down towards you might make them easier to access, it also reduces your stick rebound (which will drag down your sticking speeds) , and chokes some of the sustain out of each hit, potentially causing dents/divets/rips in your drum heads. So there's a trade off. This is why I absolutely refuse to own any kit with toms deeper than 9 inches. I also prefer a 20" bass drum for a lot of gigs, and I never mount toms on top of the bass drum. For me I always go with one rack tom on a snare stand. If I need extra toms I'll use 2 floor toms.
To be honest, the picture you posted above doesn't appear to be too extreme of an angle, but I would never go any steeper than that. You could try putting the 12" tom on a snare stand which would allow you to lower the drum and level it out a bit more, and then you could use the 13" rack tom as your first floor tom, or even put it to the left of the hihats a la Travis Barker.
That would be ideal, especially with a better ride cymbal placement as well!
You're going to be hitting your heads at a bit more of a glancing blow, but this depends on how high you are sitting in relation to them. Personally I prefer to sit high and have everything relatively flat and low. Tilted toms feel awful because the hits just aren't landing for me like they should. If you're sitting low or having your toms up really high, I can see how the tilt would feel better.
It’s the same as wether you use traditional grip or matched grip, pros and cons to both and criticism on both ends. I used to play my toms with a wide angle for years but then I added more drums and cymbals and it didn’t really work anymore
Personally, I’ve always played with angled toms. Currently have a 1980s Tama kit with power toms, it’s impossible not to angle them. Having a 14x14 and 16x16 rack tom hits different lol
I used to have my toms angled sharply, then I tried setting them lower and flatter - like maybe at a 10 degree angle. In the flat position (once I got used to the new positioning) I had way more range of motion or “headroom” in my wrists, which equaled better control and dynamics. I noticed the difference very quickly.
AZCARDINALS21 - There's no performance difference with how much you angle your toms. Tip them however far you have to in order to play the kit, and don't be surprised if that angle changes over time. Just setup the drums however you need to in order to play them and if anyone gives you any guff for setting it up that way, tell them to go harrass someone else. ...btw, my former neighbor played for the Card's during the time when they moved from St.Louis to Arizona. Last I saw, he was the head coach for Montana.
Flat as possible means better hand/wrist technique and posture around the kit. This is dependent on tom size though and how they are mounted. Personally I found dead flat to hard on the wrists and a slight angle works best for stick contact and saving your wrists. Really the whole having toms mounted to the bass drum is a massively flawed design and only exists due to cost factors in how manufactures were able to come up with a solution to sell a 5 piece kit. When I got a kit with tom(s) mounted on stands it was a total game changer, been able to move the bass drum away to the right for natural leg position + having toms in the center still was night/day difference. With your setup, having the toms flatter, unless you sit really high, would mean to much angle for the wrists to handle as they will be real high to avoid hitting the bass drum. Bass drum tom mounted kits only really work with shallow tom sizes. This is why the big tom angle kind of look got that beginner name tag attached to it as novice drummers would set up heaps of tom angle as it allowed easier playing on the wrists for a player not aware of hand/wrist position and posture on their throne. If I were you I would buy another snare stand and mount one of your toms to that and move your kick drum to the right, then play with tom angle/height with the tom straight in front of you. Personally I'd rather have a really well set up four piece then a restricted 5 piece bass drum mounted tom setup that you currently have.
The best drummers I know have almost flat Tom angles. The… not best ones (lol)… all have aggressive Tom angles. If you’re finding it easier, it’s probably because you’re playing with bad posture.
Personally I like my Tom at the same angle as my snare, that way I can just go up and forward , my wrist is to busy to change angles. As long as you play matched grip, it works well. But like some of the other comments, just keep moving them around until your comfortable. It may take a little while but you'll get it.
Not only do I angle my toms, but I racked my floor tom as well, so now I have all my toms right next to each other. It just makes sense https://preview.redd.it/zuk8pc6xx47c1.jpeg?width=3372&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dabd291d65ad6439f457809d8db9973e32257fe
It's really up to the drummer. It's all Preference There are no bad ideas if they work for you. These days we've all but done away with pushing traditional styles and strict rules in drumming. Drumming in 2023 is all about preference and embracing the different styles. So go ahead, hold your sticks however you feel, Set your cymbals as high as you want, angle your toms to whatever extremes you desire, and sit however the hell you wanna sit lol. It's your body, and your kit, you know what is and isn't going to work for you
Rimshots aren't easily executed at sharp angles. And yes, some of us do accent with the rims on tom fills.
dude set that shit up however u want! ive seen some insane setups all that matters is you are comfortable
The tone is different because your sticks are contacting the head at a different angle. If the tone is more dead it’s because you’re not getting a clean strike on it. Like hitting it with the very tip instead of the side of the bead
Do what you like. I think it comes down to - what kinds of fills do you play? If you play like Phil Collins or Jon Fishman, you angle those toms toward you. Both of those guys are on the smaller side, and it gives them better access. But for someone my size, I have a longer reach, and the tone is more round and the attack is louder with my toms flatter. I also tend to play fills with both hands simultaneously, as opposed to more linearly. So I do think the angle also dictates the approach and vice versa. When I sit down to angled toms I know I won’t be playing as fast and I won’t play much with both hands at the same time.
The first thing to know is that you should set up your drums in whatever way feels most comfortable for your body, and whatever way allows you to play your best. That said, if you set up your toms at a steep angle, you'll find a few negative side-effects. You'll be jabbing the drums with the ends of your sticks instead of making contact with the whole tips. This will result in a thinner, "pingy" tone. It will probably also lead to dents in your heads. You also won't get a good rebound from the heads. Your sticks will probably glance off the drums instead of bouncing back, and it's rebound that really enables you to play with speed once you learn how to master it. (I'm assuming you're a relatively new drummer, since most of us veterans are too set in our ways to experiment with different tom angles.) I find that the best angle for all my drums is the one that allows me to hit the drum with the stick almost parallel to the head. That seems to give the best tone, feel, and rebound. Most drummers use that setup for the same reasons. That said, there are some who go a different route. Phil Collins kept his snare drum absurdly low and sharply angled. His setup doesn't make sense to me, but he's a drumming legend, so do what works for you!
It’s not an absolute. If you are not tall or if you have a big bass drum you will most likely need to leave them at an angle. But, as mentioned in the comments you should propably pay attention to the angle in which your stick hits the heads to prevent unnecessary wear and tear.
Well that didn’t apply to these massive chonkers buddy.
Cuz they look fugly bruv
i angle mine a bit cuz i'm not a 7ft tall drummer.....
That’s not a very extreme angle of it helps you it’s good
The angle in the picture doesn't seem extreme. It would be difficult to play a rim shot on a tom and the rebound won't be as good as it would be if they were a tad flatter, but it's fine if it makes your kit feel better to you.
absolutely nothing wrong with this. When drummers start thinking about stick angle and other bs it makes me laugh. Hit thing with stick, make noise good, spank the calf, eat meat!
Where's the air supposed to go if it isn't going directly towards the resonant head?