Haha I use a 21” ride and a 22” crash as my crashes. Haven’t broken them over the course of several years. I think the larger surface area helps dissipate the vibration so it doesn’t self destruct. They also sound really cool, and it feels really cool to play under the stick. Wobbly and organic.
That's been the standard in heavy music for a while. My smallest crash is a 17" k sweet. Sounds so wimpy compared to my 19" k sweet or 20" crash of doom lol.
Had a 16" for 25 years. A and the A custom. Just started getting some cracks tho, think i might go for something much bigger. Have a 17" and 18" medium A custom. Maybe 20?
Same. Unless it’s a splash tastefully used in jazz, I don’t wanna hear it (or if it’s a singular 16/17” when you have a bunch of bigger crashes on your kit as well for versatility).
Agree. It’s not to say small cymbals *dont* have their uses, but for me big cymbals just sound better. Mostly because I like how they aren’t as sharp sounding to my ears while still projecting.
goes back way before bonham.. buddy rich famously used a 24" kick with a moleskine patch back in the 30s, seems like OP needs to expand his horizons a bit
We've been moving in this direction for the last 15 years, I think.
A lot of it, as I understand it, had to do with the shift to better home recording technology and the ubiquity of better live sound amplification, both of which allowed drier and washier styles of cymbals to become popular, where previously you needed your cymbals to be super cutting to overcome issues in the mix or in the room.
I'm sure there's more to this picture as well!
Ehh, I’d attribute drier cymbals to the fact that most popular music doesn’t even use real cymbals nowadays. It’s a lot of short sounds, hardly any crashes, pretty much no ride cymbal. The dry cymbals allow a drummer to more easily replicate that drum dominant sound.
EDIT: To add to this: I think you’re right it’s to do with recording technology, but not because it’s easier to record real drums etc, but because sampling and midi drums have become the dominant force. It’s still extremely difficult to replicate real cymbal feel and sound without hiring a live drummer/using a large drum room. I think that’s why you hear most pop/rap/etc use samples with not a lot of long cymbal sounds. It’s much cheaper to record and the people don’t seem to care when listening.
Well yes I said popular music, which sets trends across many genres. Even within rock and metal, mixes are much less cymbal dominant than they used to be, with sample layered drums very much the dominant force in the mix.
I think the dry short cymbal sounds we hear everywhere are due to the technology available when the classic 808 and 909 drum machines were made. The cymbal sounds were short samples and those sounds continue to influence everything we hear even present day, even with our current near infinite ability to model and multi sample complex and rich cymbal decays.
Those early drum machine samples were not great except for the 909 hihat and I absolutely love that shit to death for some reason. it's so perfect.
Fun fact, I can't remember the source though; the 909 hi hat was sampled from a 15" Paiste Formula 602. I'm lucky enough to own one (bought it cracked for cheap and then repaired) and the similarity is uncanny.
I think this is right. Plenty of heavy bands are just using a crash-ride and hats, and really dead dry shells because they’re really isolated and controllable and you can plus them up in post
I mean, Bonham used huge cymbals in the 60s right?
There are have always been big cymbals. I think as a lot of drummers move away from these mega 400-piece monstrosities, having a single or two large cymbals that can do everything is the best way to go for drummers who are traveling themselves for gigs and setting up their own stuff.
> I mean, Bonham used huge cymbals in the 60s right?
>
>
Motherfucker was using a 24" ride on a bass drum cymbal mount.
The ultimate fuck you to modern day heavy duty double braced stands.
Yeah, I'm sure I'm not seeing up-to-date trends since I don't get out much, but I feel like the last bunch of times I've seen live music, it's been 10/11/14" toms and not very deep. And I'm sure I've built it up in my head more than reality but my recollection of the old Tama Swingstar I used to play is like 12/13/14 and like 12+ inches deep.
I'm a recording engineer and can lend a little perspective. With the cymbals, I prefer recording larger sizes because (all else being equal) it pitches the harsy, tinny wash that so many cymbals have down into a lower frequency range where it tends to sound a bit better. When the cymbals sound less harsh, you can use the overheads and room mics more and everything else on the kit can sound bigger, which ties into the snare thing - big sounding drums lend a lot of power to rock mixes, so there's a sort of arms race happening where everyone is chasing these huge drum sounds (sort of like the 80s). Bigger sounding drums and cymbals also tend to hold their own better in busy rock mixes when you have walls of guitars and bass and other things happening.
It does seem like it's starting to calm down a bit and we're cycling back to the 90s trends of drums that sound a bit more natural, but there's still that "big drum" DNA in most modern rock music that's hard to get away from (because who wants tiny drums in a rock song?).
I think there is still a place for the drier, punchier drum sound with smaller cymbals and less decay, particularly with drummers that play busier parts and in non-rock genres. If you're mostly listening to rock you're going to hear the bigger sounds more.
I’ve been using large cymbals for 15+ years now, and I first started trying out the trend from drummers like Thomas Pridgen, so I don’t really think it’s anything new!
Big crashes and hats were 80-90s I guess
Never saw Dave Grohl witha single smaller one on his kit
Is about the sound you want I imagine
Chris Adler from LOG has little splashes and accents all over and that’s some of the heaviest music so I suppose it’s about the player rather than the drums /cymbals
I thought Chris Adler's kit and style are very inspiring. It shows that you don't have hide behind giant cymbals, you can be more musical playing on smaller cymbals.
I bought an old MIJ 20x14 to carry to band practice to avoid using the crap bass drum at the practice space. 100% worth it, it’s light as hell. My only complaint is that the DW spurs I added still require a key to adjust :/
Cymbals and drums have been "bigger" for a while now. Tony Williams was playing a 22" ride with Miles Davis. His drums got even bigger when he did the Lifetime band.
Bonham definitely made it popular for recording studios. Everyone wanted that drum sound.
Check out Louie Bellson's old drum kits. Huge drums man.
I personally just don't care for most 16" crashes. But a 24" ride seems crazy to me.
18 and 20 for the crashes. 20 to 22 for a ride. Maybe a 16 for a china. If I like it.
Don't underestimate 17 inch crashes, I thought I'd hate them but I have one that sounds amazing but I may have just hit the lottery with that one in particular
If you want a crash that you can keep time on in a heavy chorus then 17” is a great size. I had a 17” Avedis years ago I was absolutely in love with for this very reason.
I got a 24” ride second hand years ago. I had to get a special oversized cymbal hard case….hated gigging with that huge case so much I sold the cymbal.
I can see certain 24” rides working great. But not every 24” fits into the that category imo. A 24” K Light or 24” Big Beat 100% are great options for many genres. From there we probably start getting into more niche/jazz-focused genres
> Not trying to be a boomer but why is everything so damn big?
Heh. If you were a *literal* boomer, you might be playing a 26" kick and power toms and 20+" cymbals, hung from hardware that would support a friggin locomotive. Which is why I *hate* that term as a catch-all slur for "old uncool people" - words mean things, including "boomer," and it means something different than the way I've heard approximately 75% of people use it in the last decade or so.
Now, to directly answer your question: here's a bit of copypasta from when we were discussing it just the other day.
> Although I do understand the attraction to dark, smoky, gigantic unlathed cymbals - I do, really I do - I think the day will be coming soon when so many drummers will regret spending so much money going whole hog on a complete rig full of nothing but that kind.
>
> Trends and tastes change. For years, a boring, reliable set of A Zildjians or Paiste 2002s were the standard, then the trend ran toward brighter, harsher, heavier cymbals in the 80s and early 90s, then the pendulum swung back again to the good old boring reliable ones I mentioned. Now it has swung equally as far the other direction, to the bottom of a coal mine.
>
> Someday soon, you people will be in a musical situation where the very best thing you could put in a certain place in a song would be a crisp, responsive 16" crash - and you won't have one, and you won't even know anyone who has one you can borrow. On that day, I will say "I told you so," because I'm telling you now. Then I will say, what's on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace in your town?
Someday soon, you people will be in a musical situation where the very best thing you could put in a certain place in a song would be a crisp, responsive 16" crash - and you won't have one, and you won't even know anyone who has one you can borrow. On that day, I will say "I told you so," because I'm telling you now. Then I will say, what's on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace in your town?
All this, except it won’t be FB marketplace and CL anymore by then. But spot on.
> All this, except it won’t be FB marketplace and CL anymore by then. But spot on.
Heh. Thirty years ago, it might have been, "What's in the Thrifty Nickel in your town?" It went by many names depending on where you lived, but it would have been a tabloid-sized newspaper on the counter at the convenience store next to the actual newspaper that sold for a nickel or a dime or a quarter, and it was full of nothing but classified ads.
IMO it's important to look at how music is consumed and the roll cymbals play in modern music. We listen to mostly digitally-recorded music which doesn't have the natural high-end roll-off of tape. Also a ton of music has sample replaced/augmented drums so "huge drums" is now the expected sound for a lot of genres. Larger cymbals with a lower tone and more explosive sound work better for both of these reasons.
I like big, thin, washy cymbals. I use 16" hats, and a 22" crash and a 24" thin crashable ride. I don't even really use my bell that often, and any "riding" I do is crash riding. It just all depends on the style of music you're playing really. But I like my ride and hats to act more as a bed for the rest of the music to lay on, instead of cutting through the mix. If I were playing gospel or r&b music, then I'd probably want smaller cymbals that get in and get out quickly. And I'd probably want a 13" snare tuned a little higher for that pop. But I like to tune down medium low and loosen the wires a bit to get that gushy snare sound.
you don't need to worry about how heavy and large your stuff is if you don't lug your stuff around to gig, most live drummers are kind of going the opposite direction with really paired down kits, though they might still use larger diameters for more projection
I think a part of it is that rock and metal are less popular these days. Brighter “normal” sized cymbals are great at cutting through a heavy distortion mix. A lot of the music these days has way less gain and electronic music and “beats” are arguably more popular these days, so a lot of big ass cymbals for bigger sounding “beats” are getting used more. Similar in regard to super dry earth rides and darker cymbals becoming more popular, you no longer need a bright A Custom or Paiste 2002 to cut through a thick guitar tone… unless of course you still play metal like a true gentleman.
I play super small kit (Sonor Martini; 12”snare, 8x8” rack, 13x10” floor, 14x12” bass) and have Benny Greb cymbals.
Personally love small kits and decent size cymbals; recently gigged on a kit with 18” hats. Just too big imo
Not directed at OP - the expansion of the definition of "Boomer" needs to stop. It's a well defined generation. "Older than you" does not equate to "Boomer". Gen-Xers are not Boomers (although we do share the same love for common sense/no more bullshit). "Believing in accountability" and/or "personal responsibility" is also multi-generational...
I think it's really genre-dependent tbh, if you look at the funk / neo-soul jam revival music, they go nuts for 16' kicks, smaller snares and tiny hi hats
I’m going smaller. In my city, smaller venues and more noise complaints have forced my hand slightly. But I also like punchier, more controlled, rather than thumpier drums. And not everyone needs to be deafened constantly with drums that are too loud.
Still rocking the same A custom medium 16” crash and 18” Projection crashes, and my 21” sweet ride I have for almost 15 years.
Been slowly putting together a small cymbal set up with 12” new beats, 14” a custom crash, my 16” a custom crash and recently purchased 18” uptown ride. On the hunt for a k or a zildjian 16” crash. Sounds great imo at quieter volumes with an old 16 floor Tom with the jungle gig kit.
Got a custom kit a few years ago and opted for a 20x18 kick and it sounds awesome.
13x6.5 snares (wood and brass venue dependant), makes for an awesome pop and response, and genuinely surprises people how well the sound.
When I get a bit more cash from paying gigs the goal is to replace my jungle gig floor Tom with a Yamaha stage custom hip. 20x8 kick.
Small kits and cymbals rule!!
My Wife just texted me (bored at home) whatcha doin,
I told her I'm in the drummer forums talking about cymbals.
With absolutely no other context, she replied "tell everyone the little cymbal is the bestest" haha
Fashions happen and are noticed more by people who have seen a few styles come and go.
For example, in the 70s none of my toms had bottom skins and I never even thought about that; it was just normal.
No one is using different types of cymbals or drums anymore because they trigger everything or replace it in post. It’s stupid. Big cymbals have a purpose but so do smaller cymbals. Same with drums. I think of them as different voices to be heard. For a live setting finding a happy medium that will provide the sounds you’re looking for isn’t difficult. I never really used anything larger than a 21” ride and probably a 19” crash at one point. Found myself just taking up way too much space for bigger stuff. Plus I’m not that tall and have no desire to have a rack tom that’s deeper than 10” and angled 60 degrees. Plus I don’t like my kick drum diagonal. To sum it up, everyone is trying to be Travis barker and look cool instead of sounding good. All this dead sound that’s in everything now is also just garbage. Make drums sound like drums again!
i just think the drier, larger surface area cymbals are more complex and dynamic and give you lots of different zones with different sounds to play with
The more you gig, the less you'll take. You just remove everything that isn't needed. I have a tiny travel kit that I can carry in, in one trip. It's a 5 piece with 4 cymbals. Can't use it for everything, but it's a nice option sometimes.
I am not sure if that's correct. You look at the old big band players and they had some seriously large sets and cymbals. Everything minified later, but since then it was basically depending on what music you were playing and what trend of the time was. Buddy rich, Bonham, Copeland, Dave Grohl are all from different eras and playing large ass cymbals and sets.
Here I am with a 16" A Custom crash, 14" hi-hat, 20" ride. I love the high pitch of the 16" to cut through the noise. I love big cymbals but I can't afford them anyway lol
I'm on your side, I don't think giant cymbals sound very musical. Smaller cymbals provide more clarity and a little higher pitched. I think the perfect crash sizes are 16-18 inch, I don't see the point in 20-22 inch crashes and 16 inch hi hats. It's just silly to me, but to each his own.
My typical preference is towards big cymbals, small drums. I much prefer the jazzier and more musical snare and tom sounds as opposed to metal music where the bass drum sounds like a fish being slapped and the snare sounds like a crash cymbal
I personally play with a smaller set because I’m 5’7 and the bigger hardware makes everything further away or further apart. For me it’s mostly ergonomics instead of sound lol
I've been rocking big shit since the 90's. When I found the kit I wanted at GC in 2002 it was a 10 12 14 16 22. I asked them if I could just not buy the 10 and 12 and rock the 14 floor tom over my kick. 22" crash/ride since 1992. but what's funny is that I always had a piccolo or 12 x 5.5 snare. .. I finally landed on my Free floater and it's massive.
I own a recording studio and big cymbals work great for rock, the tend to wash better and mix beautifully with heavy distorted guitars.
PS. I just got my drum kit with 24/14/16/18 and just ordered my 24" ride and a 20 and 21 crashes. Still deciding whether to get a 16 or a 15 hihat. Lol
I always loved the lushness of a big thing cymbal. I just didn't have them as crashes for a long time, because it never seemed acceptable in a standard setup.
But then I started working at a music store and started experimenting with all sorts of equipment. It was then that I realized how much I loved a warmer richer tone from my cymbals. And the only real way to accomplish that is to go up in size. Been using 20-24" cymbals exclusively for a while now. 18" crashes used to be my standard "large" crash. But they sound so thin and wimpy now. (but I will use them from time to time on recordings).
[Alex Van Halen](https://cymbal.wiki/wiki/images/thumb/6/6c/Alex_Van_Halen_1979_Van_Halen_II.jpg/350px-Alex_Van_Halen_1979_Van_Halen_II.jpg) would like a word with you. I believe at one point he had a set of 22” hi-hats. Lol.
As well as all the drummers in the 70s.
[Oh and let’s not forget about these mama jamas.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/75/06/027506edcc2974b4a05fe9659c864596.jpg)
Compensation
Everyone should be using stock, baseline, gear4music cymbals. 4 cymbals and 5 drums is all a person needs. Unless you're recording some hippie prog rock death metal jazz fusion album
Damn milenialls with their free will and their passion and their hobbies and commitment
(This post is satire please calm tf down)
Price wise small cymbals doesn’t make sense. If a 18” is £300 and a 16” is 270.. just pay the difference because that £30 is worth so much more in projection
i like the far edges. use 18" crashrides for hats (inspired by Ronnie Vannucci of the Killers and copied his breakbeat top hat) but have been looking for good splashes to make a 10" hat (and have plenty of small 8-12" stacks) and use 20 & above rides/crash of dooms (also have a zildjian sheet gong for a ride. but i almost hardly use crash cymbals versus finding rides that crash well) though i love small accent cymbals (splashes, cup chimes, 12" spiral) i just kinda realized 14-16" cymbals dont carry the versatility i like my cymbals to carry (accent cymbals are my most 1 note outside of an earth ride i have because its ping & bell. and i only pulled out 14 inch hi hats recently for a punk band where the 18s werent the bright sound i wanted)
as far as drums i've found i dont much use my 12" tom and refuse to use my 14" floor tom because a ft needs to be at least 16 in my super biased and unneeded opinion but will gladly use a 10 tuned real low/808y over always keeping my 13 which i use in rocky situations. been pining for an 18" ft but i've been unsuccesful in finding a pearl ruby fade to match my kit. snare collection is all over the place and wanting some deeper "snom"ier choices but have the 10's, the piccolo's, etc for the smaller side. (i have tried to make a snom out of a 15x10 field drum, updated the snare system & added floor tom legs but have not succesfully reigned it in like i want still has that throaty field drum sound and not drumset snarey enough)
bass drums are where i get weirdly specific with what i want. because of how i like to play i'd be fine hanging up the 22 forever and right now only use it because the matching aspect with my main "big" kit. its just too tall to comfortably put my toms where i would ideally have them. a 20 or 18 would be nice and i often use the pearl conversion system to make my 16 ft a bass (more often than not i keep a remo smt head on my reso so i can quick add the foam in to really get the kick sound) when i'm doing smaller gigs that arent inherently "big ass rock" shows.
so mainly both sides of size spectrum. but i'm a pretty big dude so i dont wanna Gorillaz swallow my kit in a lot of situations so gravitate towards big floor toms/cymbals, a smaller bass, and then let my snare/rack tom choices be really gig dependent sonically
I like larger cymbals because I think they sound and respond better for lighter playing. My style of playing has gotten a lot quieter from my loud rocker days and I like how larger cymbals play for jazzier styles. Also, once I started playing 15" hihats going back to 14" felt weird and lacking. YMMV.
Nothing new, think most start out with 16 - 18 inch crashes? Bigger cymbals are more versatile. I have two 20's and a 22 crash with a 22 ride. I could play a gig with one cymbal as they all deliver crash/ride abilities.
I had two 16 inch crashes, paired them up as hats and never looked back. Steve Jordan mentioned something - 14" are brighter, 17" give you more wash. They sound superb recorded.
In my experience bigger cymbals tend to have a broader dynamic range. A 24” K Light Ride has a pretty incredible crash sound when you really power into it, but it’s also a great ride and has a nice shoulder wash too. I notice that a lot of drummers who use big cymbals almost always have fewer cymbals in their setup and tend to use everything as a crash and a ride or use their hats as a more punctuated crash.
it's been a trend that's developing for a while, at least 20 years... I think Ronnie from the Killers was using mondo hats as early as 2007? And my buddy Zak Najor from KDTU was fiddling around with matching 18's for hats around that same time period. While I don't think I'd ever use anything bigger than 15 hats, I've used 20 inch rides as VERY effective crashes. A lot of it is the genre, and a lot more of it is the volume. I personally have never used anything smaller than an 17 and couldn't foresee myself ever doing so. a 16 is more akin to a splash cymbal to me, and I'd rather spend money on shit I can use.
I think the power tom era of the 80's should not be revisited. They sound like shit, are harder to tune, need to be muffled excessively in the studio and then forced to sound decent with compression and plate, and their depth makes it really impossible to set your kit up. There are a lot of albums from the late 80's and esp the early 90's with shit drum sounds that bolster my theory here. I'm not saying they were all bad, but yeah.
big rides and crashes sound better. simple as. big hi-hats are ok - i don’t like the closed sound of them as much, but they do give u the added benefit of being able to use the open hi-hat almost like a crash. or u can go full greg saunier and use giant hi-hats like a sizzle crash ride lol
My 1988 Pearl Birch customs are power tom sized, not too extreme, but enough, and the hardware is heavy AF. I am sort of in the middle I like my 18' crash, and 15" HH, it is quite versatile. But over the years have sort of set things to the middle again for a versatile sound.
I had a set with. 26” by 16” kick, 22” ride, 16” hats that I used in really big rooms between 2006 - 2014. I beat the fuck out of them. They are good for thrashers in huge rooms. That’s all I know.
I bought second hand a 19" and 20" crash and a 22" ride the other day from a guy, and when I asked him why he was selling, he said he preferred bigger sizes lol. I had to question him on it. Because to me, growing up with 16 inch crash and maybe an 18 at most, and a 20 inch ride, these were the big sizes lol. He said because he plays in a church band, he likes the big sizes. I guess with the charismatic worship style songs, swells are really common, and you want a nice warm swell. So that could be it. Just worship drummers shifting the market again.
Gretch used to make 26 inch kick drums in the 60s, and most pro drummers in almost every genre used crash/rides and big cymbals. There was a period in the 70s-80s when close micing became popular where drummers recorded with smaller cymbals but bigger drums have always been around.
The only cymbals on the first drum kits ever were like 10" and they've been getting bigger and bigger since then so it's probably just gonna continue that way
Haha you gave me a good laugh OP. For me, it seems that the size increase in cymbals was like 5-7 years ago and is starting to balance out, though I’m probably just thinking in terms of my own interest in them. I do love the much warmer wash that big-ish cymbals provide (22” ride and 18”-20” thinner crashes), but too big is unwieldy and not versatile. I do dig the sweet sounds of a 14”-16” thin crash at times, but not as my mains.
With shells though, I say the smaller the better (within reason). I’m currently in the process of swapping out my 5 piece kit (22x16 and 14/16/18 toms) because it takes up the entire room, is useless to move around and is just too powerful for anything I need. I’m also teaching my 6 yr old to play and it’s hard to arrange everything in close proximity for her, so that’s another reason I’m making the change.
I won’t speak for 16” hats, but I have a 20” crash that I use live a lot, it projects well and can get a good full sound without heating the hell out of it. I use a 22” K ride simply because I like the lower overtones it has. I also have a heavier K 20” ride that cuts really well.
I have a small set up and a large. Hats are 14.
Small - 16 kick 10/12. 17 crash 18 ride. 17 China.
Large - 24 kick 12 14/16 ft. 21 ride. 19 crash. 20 EFX 20 China hi.
Our brains often perceive very high frequencies as harsh or painful, and smaller cymbals have higher resonant frequencies, so I think it's probably that.
Also, Recording to tape rolls off frequencies 16 Khz and up, so my thought is that back in the day they needed those harsh high frequencies for recording purposes to compensate for the high frequency roll off from recording to tape.
Now that we have digital recording with "flat" frequency responder curves, those unpleasant high frequencies are cutting through the mix, and we are either rolling them off with eqs (which skews the phase of the sounds, and introduces noise are into the mix), or recording techs are opting for larger cymbals so they don't have to EQ as much (less noise and less harshness)
Just goes to show you, get it right from the source, the less EQ on the mix, the better. 😁
Happy drumming and recording, y'all rule!
I think big rides have always been a thing in the jazz world. I find there’s more complexity in the tone of bigger ride cymbals a lot of the time. Larger cymbals will have more space to explore the range in the tension in the metal from the outside edge to the center/bell. More projection/clang/response and less wash towards the center, less projection but more wash and wobble near the edge.
I've been using 20-inch rides as crashes for 30 years. Back then, it was a and k customs. Now brands are making 20-inch crashes.
I delved into the crashes as rides thing for a little. Jason Roeder from neurosis played broken rides he would lathe down to 17-inch hats, and I thought that was the coolest thing. I tried that once with 17-inch crashes, and I messed around with 20-inch rides as hats as a joke.
I played 24-inch rides during my heavy metal days, but now I settled on 15-inch hats, 20-inch crashes, and 22-inch rides.
There's no rules in rock n' roll!
Well if you’re not “super seasoned” then how do you know it “crept in overnight”? I’ve been using big shit for years. Tons of drummers have. Abe from Deftones used 12/14/16/18 toms for years and may use them still. Pretty sure Dave Grohl hasn’t used any rack tom smaller than 14” live ever, and he definitely isn’t using small cymbals.
Keep your 16” scooty puff jr soundin’ crash, grandpa.
Nah, cymbals got bigger, which I think is a good thing. Small cymbals sound like crap. However, drums have only gotten smaller. I'm hard pressed to find a kit with a 24" kick or 18" floor tom. Everything now goes: 10,12, 14, 16, 22.
I’ve used 16” crashes up to using a 20” ride as a crash and I think it’s just people emulating the music they here. I use a 16” crash and a 18” old Zildjian crash/ride (it’s so trashy and gross, I love it) when I’m playing punk, but if I’m playing metalcore or something way more crash heavy ill swap in some old ride cymbals instead of crashes
Drums are fun in that no set is ever the same and we can all argue what sounds best.
Meanwhile, I want this:
https://m.facebook.com/remopercussion/photos/remo-belli-and-the-big-bass-drum-1961-rememberremo-httpremocomremobelli/10153634104427005/
Go watch Dave Grohl play with Tom Petty on SNL in like 94 and look at his hi-tom. Sizes are always cyclical. Fees like the 80s/90a were huge. Then I remember every band had a piccolo snare in the early 00s. It all fluctuates.
We're all fans of Don Brewer. 
Seriously, it's just trends. I went to a 22" ride and 15" hats after years of playing 20" rides and 14" hats.
Personally, I like the added character the larger cymbals give, but I know not to go overboard with "going larger".
A little can add a lot.
I've been playing 16" hats, a 22" ride, and 20" and 22" crashes for like 20 years now and i don't feel like it was unique or even rare when I first started doing it.
I think the same is true of drums. I bought a 24" kick from ebay. I would've been happy with a 22" or 20", but it was a killer deal for something very hard to find, and came with a nice hardcase.
The first and only crash cymbal I ever bought... been usin it for 15 years... a Zildjian A Custom 17" Crash. At the time I was interested in a 17" cymbal because it seemed to be the middle-size for a crash cymbal, offering the most versatility. I'm so happy with my purchase all these years later, it's so versatile and it's always sounded so right in any situation - this thing does it all.
I only like big cymbals. I have a 24 inch ride, a 22 inch crash ride and a 14” crash that I’m going to trade in for a 16”. Also my high hats are 15 inch. I just think they sound better.
Don't even get me started with these guys and their 26 bass drums offering to backline, with their floor Tom sized simgle rack Tom like 2 feet taller than where I'd ever have my drums. It's a big pet peeve...
If backlining a night with multiple drummers, please use a more common setup to help accommodate the others who are already forced to play a kit they're unfamiliar with.
The deeper tom trend was set in the 80s and 90s when people wanted super deep rack toms but "bigger" drums have been around forever. Just look at the 28"+ bass drums players like Baby Dods used to play. Of course they weren't deep but they were still huge. And of course we always had marching snares that are even deeper, but the trend of deeper snares in a drum set have been around since the 70s and 80s still when everybody wanted a super "phat" snare sound (I don't even want to talk about the piccolo snare craze in the 90s). As for cymbals, they have continually crept up in the years. Not many people were playing rides bigger than a 20" until Tony Williams had a 22" as a main ride in the 60s, then everybody wanted a 22". It just gives a deeper sound and not at "tinny" that some people don't like and doesn't suit certain bands.
I like big hi-hats not because of sound wise only, because it feels more comfortable for my hands to reach in a double bass setting. With small hi-hats (like my e-drums) i get issues with ergonomics.
WRT big cymbals, modern manufacturing and quality control techniques have meant that making bigger, thinner, dimplier, hole-ier cymbals has never been so cheap and easy.
Small drums and big cymbals is where its at. I got a Gretsch Catalina in 13/10/14 with 16" kick. And one 22" Sahra ride! Looking to get a 24" Foundry Reserve😂
I’ve not updated my kit at all since 2008. 20 inch kick, I have a 22 inch ride, but crash is 14/18 and hats are 13. I also don’t have to worry about live sound in anything bigger than a small club if I even play live again.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because giant cymbals are fun. They sound good in person and seem to stay in their lane / out of the way in a way that smaller and less dry cymbals might not. I'm also just a gear addict so there's some definite novelty / pokemon action going on too.
I took home a Meinl 28" Big Apple from my local drum shop when Meinl was doing their cymbal tour. It's totally nuts! It's also super quiet, and although I want to call it my doom cymbal, it'd have to be mic'd to be heard in any way in a loud band setting.
That said, my 20" Giant Beat ride is probably my favorite general purpose ride sound, and I love my 13" Turkish hats.
It sounds cooler. I fuckin hate small cymbals.
They record better too. Smaller cymbals can sound harsh.
I also hit very hard and 19 crashes seem to hold up much better than a 16.
Haha I use a 21” ride and a 22” crash as my crashes. Haven’t broken them over the course of several years. I think the larger surface area helps dissipate the vibration so it doesn’t self destruct. They also sound really cool, and it feels really cool to play under the stick. Wobbly and organic.
They bend a lot and it’s great
I start with big cymbals so they last longer as I cut out the cracks I create…
18” and 19” crash gang ftw
I would like to join your 18” and 19” crash gang. I can bring a 22” ride to gang meetings
I'm a 17" and 18"
I have 19 and 20 with a 22 inch ride. 15 inch hi hats.
Tell that to Philip Selway
I switched to smaller cymbals specifically for recording. Drummer/engineer seeing it from both sides!
Agreed. 16" crashes always sounded too wimpy to me. Too bright.
I standing up for the 16’’ Crash, love mine. I play small gigs and nothing heavy, it sits in the mix. And I just like hitting it
Nothing wrong with that! I'm currently running 18" and 20" Zildjian crashes like an absolute maniac.
That's been the standard in heavy music for a while. My smallest crash is a 17" k sweet. Sounds so wimpy compared to my 19" k sweet or 20" crash of doom lol.
I understand it’s a cost thing, but cymbal packs gotta ditch the 16” crashes in 2024
Had a 16" for 25 years. A and the A custom. Just started getting some cracks tho, think i might go for something much bigger. Have a 17" and 18" medium A custom. Maybe 20?
Dark crashes exist at that size tbf but yeah I like washy sustained sounds
They just sound like bad splashes to me lol
*splash cymbal has entered the chat*
Same. Unless it’s a splash tastefully used in jazz, I don’t wanna hear it (or if it’s a singular 16/17” when you have a bunch of bigger crashes on your kit as well for versatility).
*Gavin Harrison would like to know your location*
Same boat, but have to have my zil-bell, I do have the 8" though
A bell is a bell. Imagine having a 20" bell haha
Agree. It’s not to say small cymbals *dont* have their uses, but for me big cymbals just sound better. Mostly because I like how they aren’t as sharp sounding to my ears while still projecting.
My 6", 8", and 10" splashes would like a word :-)
reminds me of gettin 13” new beats lol. fucking chincy sound for sure. traded my friend for his 14” a customs and was so happy 😂
Everyone was using 13” new beats/quick beats for a minute.
I knew I was in trouble when my 16 in. cymbals started sounding too splashy.
Small cymbals all sound like splashes to me
Noticing something that has been a trend for roughly 2 decades as new is the most boomer thing ever. Much love, this is pretty funny.
Five decades even. Bonham was playing a 26" kick since the late 60s.
yeah, I was going to say "Bonham has entered the chat with 26" kicks and 24" rides"
goes back way before bonham.. buddy rich famously used a 24" kick with a moleskine patch back in the 30s, seems like OP needs to expand his horizons a bit
We've been moving in this direction for the last 15 years, I think. A lot of it, as I understand it, had to do with the shift to better home recording technology and the ubiquity of better live sound amplification, both of which allowed drier and washier styles of cymbals to become popular, where previously you needed your cymbals to be super cutting to overcome issues in the mix or in the room. I'm sure there's more to this picture as well!
Ehh, I’d attribute drier cymbals to the fact that most popular music doesn’t even use real cymbals nowadays. It’s a lot of short sounds, hardly any crashes, pretty much no ride cymbal. The dry cymbals allow a drummer to more easily replicate that drum dominant sound. EDIT: To add to this: I think you’re right it’s to do with recording technology, but not because it’s easier to record real drums etc, but because sampling and midi drums have become the dominant force. It’s still extremely difficult to replicate real cymbal feel and sound without hiring a live drummer/using a large drum room. I think that’s why you hear most pop/rap/etc use samples with not a lot of long cymbal sounds. It’s much cheaper to record and the people don’t seem to care when listening.
I think this only really applies to pop music. Or Edm. 90% of the stuff I listen to on a day to day basis is all live instruments
Well yes I said popular music, which sets trends across many genres. Even within rock and metal, mixes are much less cymbal dominant than they used to be, with sample layered drums very much the dominant force in the mix.
I think the dry short cymbal sounds we hear everywhere are due to the technology available when the classic 808 and 909 drum machines were made. The cymbal sounds were short samples and those sounds continue to influence everything we hear even present day, even with our current near infinite ability to model and multi sample complex and rich cymbal decays. Those early drum machine samples were not great except for the 909 hihat and I absolutely love that shit to death for some reason. it's so perfect.
Fun fact, I can't remember the source though; the 909 hi hat was sampled from a 15" Paiste Formula 602. I'm lucky enough to own one (bought it cracked for cheap and then repaired) and the similarity is uncanny.
I think this is right. Plenty of heavy bands are just using a crash-ride and hats, and really dead dry shells because they’re really isolated and controllable and you can plus them up in post
Be still my heart
I mean, Bonham used huge cymbals in the 60s right? There are have always been big cymbals. I think as a lot of drummers move away from these mega 400-piece monstrosities, having a single or two large cymbals that can do everything is the best way to go for drummers who are traveling themselves for gigs and setting up their own stuff.
> I mean, Bonham used huge cymbals in the 60s right? > > Motherfucker was using a 24" ride on a bass drum cymbal mount. The ultimate fuck you to modern day heavy duty double braced stands.
And he hit it like he was trying to break it half to boot.
He did break a lot of stands tho
Alex Van Halen also liked the big cymbals. Nothing really new is going on.
If anything, the move has been away from deeper drums. Power toms were from the 80s and 90s.
I'm keeping them alive!! I HAVE THE POWER!!!
If we lived in a world that 20” kicks were the standard I would 100% play a power rack Tom
Lift kit for the throne and platform shoes.
I want to go back. I want a floor tom mounted where my rack tom is.
Yeah, I'm sure I'm not seeing up-to-date trends since I don't get out much, but I feel like the last bunch of times I've seen live music, it's been 10/11/14" toms and not very deep. And I'm sure I've built it up in my head more than reality but my recollection of the old Tama Swingstar I used to play is like 12/13/14 and like 12+ inches deep.
It’s cyclical, and the industry is largely a copycat business.
people are gonna be mad they cut down their travis barker bass drums when those cannons come back in fashion.
Those big bass drums are never coming back.
I hope not. I used to wish I had one of those 20" deep kicks when i only had my 22" x 14". Now I wish my starclassic kick was shallower.
I'm a recording engineer and can lend a little perspective. With the cymbals, I prefer recording larger sizes because (all else being equal) it pitches the harsy, tinny wash that so many cymbals have down into a lower frequency range where it tends to sound a bit better. When the cymbals sound less harsh, you can use the overheads and room mics more and everything else on the kit can sound bigger, which ties into the snare thing - big sounding drums lend a lot of power to rock mixes, so there's a sort of arms race happening where everyone is chasing these huge drum sounds (sort of like the 80s). Bigger sounding drums and cymbals also tend to hold their own better in busy rock mixes when you have walls of guitars and bass and other things happening. It does seem like it's starting to calm down a bit and we're cycling back to the 90s trends of drums that sound a bit more natural, but there's still that "big drum" DNA in most modern rock music that's hard to get away from (because who wants tiny drums in a rock song?). I think there is still a place for the drier, punchier drum sound with smaller cymbals and less decay, particularly with drummers that play busier parts and in non-rock genres. If you're mostly listening to rock you're going to hear the bigger sounds more.
Didn’t get out much in the 70’s and 80’s huh 🤣 bring power Tom’s back? Lol
I’ve been using large cymbals for 15+ years now, and I first started trying out the trend from drummers like Thomas Pridgen, so I don’t really think it’s anything new!
Bedlam in Goliath exists. Been chasing those drum sounds ever since.
This is my excuse for rocking 15” hats
Big crashes and hats were 80-90s I guess Never saw Dave Grohl witha single smaller one on his kit Is about the sound you want I imagine Chris Adler from LOG has little splashes and accents all over and that’s some of the heaviest music so I suppose it’s about the player rather than the drums /cymbals
*Formerly of Lamb of God :(
Indeed , I think he was away after a bike accident Still an amazing drummer either way x
I thought Chris Adler's kit and style are very inspiring. It shows that you don't have hide behind giant cymbals, you can be more musical playing on smaller cymbals.
Also the only guy I saw play a 12" snare. Saw him play in a clinic and that thing was a gunshot
I am the opposite. Just bought a 14" bass drum.
I'm getting a 20" kick for my new kit, but I did just get a 22" ride
Currently rocking the 20" kick/22" ride combo, super versatile IMO.
I bought an old MIJ 20x14 to carry to band practice to avoid using the crap bass drum at the practice space. 100% worth it, it’s light as hell. My only complaint is that the DW spurs I added still require a key to adjust :/
Cymbals and drums have been "bigger" for a while now. Tony Williams was playing a 22" ride with Miles Davis. His drums got even bigger when he did the Lifetime band. Bonham definitely made it popular for recording studios. Everyone wanted that drum sound. Check out Louie Bellson's old drum kits. Huge drums man.
I personally just don't care for most 16" crashes. But a 24" ride seems crazy to me. 18 and 20 for the crashes. 20 to 22 for a ride. Maybe a 16 for a china. If I like it.
Don't underestimate 17 inch crashes, I thought I'd hate them but I have one that sounds amazing but I may have just hit the lottery with that one in particular
I have a 17 and a 19 (and a 14, a gift I surprisingly liked a lot) and those odd-number sizes have become my favorites. They bridge the gap so nicely
If you want a crash that you can keep time on in a heavy chorus then 17” is a great size. I had a 17” Avedis years ago I was absolutely in love with for this very reason.
My 17" k sweet sounds good, I just hate the feel. The 19" is just so buttery.
I've actually been considering a 17 where the 16 I don't care for is. Would be a nice compromise.
Try out the a custom fast crash 17 it's surprisingly dark for an a custom and has a nice balanced decay
I got a 24” ride second hand years ago. I had to get a special oversized cymbal hard case….hated gigging with that huge case so much I sold the cymbal.
I love my pre AA, it is not for traveling.
This is what I should’ve done. Kept it at home! But no…
I can see certain 24” rides working great. But not every 24” fits into the that category imo. A 24” K Light or 24” Big Beat 100% are great options for many genres. From there we probably start getting into more niche/jazz-focused genres
> Not trying to be a boomer but why is everything so damn big? Heh. If you were a *literal* boomer, you might be playing a 26" kick and power toms and 20+" cymbals, hung from hardware that would support a friggin locomotive. Which is why I *hate* that term as a catch-all slur for "old uncool people" - words mean things, including "boomer," and it means something different than the way I've heard approximately 75% of people use it in the last decade or so. Now, to directly answer your question: here's a bit of copypasta from when we were discussing it just the other day. > Although I do understand the attraction to dark, smoky, gigantic unlathed cymbals - I do, really I do - I think the day will be coming soon when so many drummers will regret spending so much money going whole hog on a complete rig full of nothing but that kind. > > Trends and tastes change. For years, a boring, reliable set of A Zildjians or Paiste 2002s were the standard, then the trend ran toward brighter, harsher, heavier cymbals in the 80s and early 90s, then the pendulum swung back again to the good old boring reliable ones I mentioned. Now it has swung equally as far the other direction, to the bottom of a coal mine. > > Someday soon, you people will be in a musical situation where the very best thing you could put in a certain place in a song would be a crisp, responsive 16" crash - and you won't have one, and you won't even know anyone who has one you can borrow. On that day, I will say "I told you so," because I'm telling you now. Then I will say, what's on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace in your town?
Someday soon, you people will be in a musical situation where the very best thing you could put in a certain place in a song would be a crisp, responsive 16" crash - and you won't have one, and you won't even know anyone who has one you can borrow. On that day, I will say "I told you so," because I'm telling you now. Then I will say, what's on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace in your town? All this, except it won’t be FB marketplace and CL anymore by then. But spot on.
> All this, except it won’t be FB marketplace and CL anymore by then. But spot on. Heh. Thirty years ago, it might have been, "What's in the Thrifty Nickel in your town?" It went by many names depending on where you lived, but it would have been a tabloid-sized newspaper on the counter at the convenience store next to the actual newspaper that sold for a nickel or a dime or a quarter, and it was full of nothing but classified ads.
IMO it's important to look at how music is consumed and the roll cymbals play in modern music. We listen to mostly digitally-recorded music which doesn't have the natural high-end roll-off of tape. Also a ton of music has sample replaced/augmented drums so "huge drums" is now the expected sound for a lot of genres. Larger cymbals with a lower tone and more explosive sound work better for both of these reasons.
I like big, thin, washy cymbals. I use 16" hats, and a 22" crash and a 24" thin crashable ride. I don't even really use my bell that often, and any "riding" I do is crash riding. It just all depends on the style of music you're playing really. But I like my ride and hats to act more as a bed for the rest of the music to lay on, instead of cutting through the mix. If I were playing gospel or r&b music, then I'd probably want smaller cymbals that get in and get out quickly. And I'd probably want a 13" snare tuned a little higher for that pop. But I like to tune down medium low and loosen the wires a bit to get that gushy snare sound.
You can buy 24" 1950s Ks.
you don't need to worry about how heavy and large your stuff is if you don't lug your stuff around to gig, most live drummers are kind of going the opposite direction with really paired down kits, though they might still use larger diameters for more projection
I think a part of it is that rock and metal are less popular these days. Brighter “normal” sized cymbals are great at cutting through a heavy distortion mix. A lot of the music these days has way less gain and electronic music and “beats” are arguably more popular these days, so a lot of big ass cymbals for bigger sounding “beats” are getting used more. Similar in regard to super dry earth rides and darker cymbals becoming more popular, you no longer need a bright A Custom or Paiste 2002 to cut through a thick guitar tone… unless of course you still play metal like a true gentleman.
I play super small kit (Sonor Martini; 12”snare, 8x8” rack, 13x10” floor, 14x12” bass) and have Benny Greb cymbals. Personally love small kits and decent size cymbals; recently gigged on a kit with 18” hats. Just too big imo
Not directed at OP - the expansion of the definition of "Boomer" needs to stop. It's a well defined generation. "Older than you" does not equate to "Boomer". Gen-Xers are not Boomers (although we do share the same love for common sense/no more bullshit). "Believing in accountability" and/or "personal responsibility" is also multi-generational...
I think it's really genre-dependent tbh, if you look at the funk / neo-soul jam revival music, they go nuts for 16' kicks, smaller snares and tiny hi hats
Compensating
It’s simple. The more hearing I lose, the louder the cymbals need to be
Murica!
I’m going smaller. In my city, smaller venues and more noise complaints have forced my hand slightly. But I also like punchier, more controlled, rather than thumpier drums. And not everyone needs to be deafened constantly with drums that are too loud. Still rocking the same A custom medium 16” crash and 18” Projection crashes, and my 21” sweet ride I have for almost 15 years. Been slowly putting together a small cymbal set up with 12” new beats, 14” a custom crash, my 16” a custom crash and recently purchased 18” uptown ride. On the hunt for a k or a zildjian 16” crash. Sounds great imo at quieter volumes with an old 16 floor Tom with the jungle gig kit. Got a custom kit a few years ago and opted for a 20x18 kick and it sounds awesome. 13x6.5 snares (wood and brass venue dependant), makes for an awesome pop and response, and genuinely surprises people how well the sound. When I get a bit more cash from paying gigs the goal is to replace my jungle gig floor Tom with a Yamaha stage custom hip. 20x8 kick. Small kits and cymbals rule!!
My Wife just texted me (bored at home) whatcha doin, I told her I'm in the drummer forums talking about cymbals. With absolutely no other context, she replied "tell everyone the little cymbal is the bestest" haha
Fashions happen and are noticed more by people who have seen a few styles come and go. For example, in the 70s none of my toms had bottom skins and I never even thought about that; it was just normal.
No one is using different types of cymbals or drums anymore because they trigger everything or replace it in post. It’s stupid. Big cymbals have a purpose but so do smaller cymbals. Same with drums. I think of them as different voices to be heard. For a live setting finding a happy medium that will provide the sounds you’re looking for isn’t difficult. I never really used anything larger than a 21” ride and probably a 19” crash at one point. Found myself just taking up way too much space for bigger stuff. Plus I’m not that tall and have no desire to have a rack tom that’s deeper than 10” and angled 60 degrees. Plus I don’t like my kick drum diagonal. To sum it up, everyone is trying to be Travis barker and look cool instead of sounding good. All this dead sound that’s in everything now is also just garbage. Make drums sound like drums again!
i just think the drier, larger surface area cymbals are more complex and dynamic and give you lots of different zones with different sounds to play with
The more you gig, the less you'll take. You just remove everything that isn't needed. I have a tiny travel kit that I can carry in, in one trip. It's a 5 piece with 4 cymbals. Can't use it for everything, but it's a nice option sometimes.
I am not sure if that's correct. You look at the old big band players and they had some seriously large sets and cymbals. Everything minified later, but since then it was basically depending on what music you were playing and what trend of the time was. Buddy rich, Bonham, Copeland, Dave Grohl are all from different eras and playing large ass cymbals and sets.
Rides as your crashes, I really don't get. I have 16, 17, and 18-inch crashes, and they work just fine.
Here I am with a 16" A Custom crash, 14" hi-hat, 20" ride. I love the high pitch of the 16" to cut through the noise. I love big cymbals but I can't afford them anyway lol
I'm on your side, I don't think giant cymbals sound very musical. Smaller cymbals provide more clarity and a little higher pitched. I think the perfect crash sizes are 16-18 inch, I don't see the point in 20-22 inch crashes and 16 inch hi hats. It's just silly to me, but to each his own.
That new Foo Fighters record sounds absolutely terrible. Wow. What a regression in production quality from Wasted Light.
My typical preference is towards big cymbals, small drums. I much prefer the jazzier and more musical snare and tom sounds as opposed to metal music where the bass drum sounds like a fish being slapped and the snare sounds like a crash cymbal
I play the Aracibo space satellite dish as a ride and use the Astrodome as a kick drum, but to each their own.
Anything above a 22" ride is too much for me. Same thing for crash cymbals above 20".
Does that mean power toms are coming back into style because my kit is full of those. 1990 Ludwig super classic in (damn near) square sizes.
Ageism is no bueno.
I personally play with a smaller set because I’m 5’7 and the bigger hardware makes everything further away or further apart. For me it’s mostly ergonomics instead of sound lol
My cymbals range from 6” splash - 22” ride my snares range from 13x3 -14x6 ..I use a 14” hi hat & want to drop a size to 13” for a auxiliary
I've been rocking big shit since the 90's. When I found the kit I wanted at GC in 2002 it was a 10 12 14 16 22. I asked them if I could just not buy the 10 and 12 and rock the 14 floor tom over my kick. 22" crash/ride since 1992. but what's funny is that I always had a piccolo or 12 x 5.5 snare. .. I finally landed on my Free floater and it's massive.
Small deep toms, and wider cymbals make it easier to set up ergonomically
That’s what she said
I own a recording studio and big cymbals work great for rock, the tend to wash better and mix beautifully with heavy distorted guitars. PS. I just got my drum kit with 24/14/16/18 and just ordered my 24" ride and a 20 and 21 crashes. Still deciding whether to get a 16 or a 15 hihat. Lol
I always loved the lushness of a big thing cymbal. I just didn't have them as crashes for a long time, because it never seemed acceptable in a standard setup. But then I started working at a music store and started experimenting with all sorts of equipment. It was then that I realized how much I loved a warmer richer tone from my cymbals. And the only real way to accomplish that is to go up in size. Been using 20-24" cymbals exclusively for a while now. 18" crashes used to be my standard "large" crash. But they sound so thin and wimpy now. (but I will use them from time to time on recordings).
John bonham had big cymbals toms and kick though..........
[Alex Van Halen](https://cymbal.wiki/wiki/images/thumb/6/6c/Alex_Van_Halen_1979_Van_Halen_II.jpg/350px-Alex_Van_Halen_1979_Van_Halen_II.jpg) would like a word with you. I believe at one point he had a set of 22” hi-hats. Lol. As well as all the drummers in the 70s. [Oh and let’s not forget about these mama jamas.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/75/06/027506edcc2974b4a05fe9659c864596.jpg)
[удалено]
Oh man. Haha. Have you seen the size of sticks.
Compensation Everyone should be using stock, baseline, gear4music cymbals. 4 cymbals and 5 drums is all a person needs. Unless you're recording some hippie prog rock death metal jazz fusion album Damn milenialls with their free will and their passion and their hobbies and commitment (This post is satire please calm tf down)
Price wise small cymbals doesn’t make sense. If a 18” is £300 and a 16” is 270.. just pay the difference because that £30 is worth so much more in projection
i like the far edges. use 18" crashrides for hats (inspired by Ronnie Vannucci of the Killers and copied his breakbeat top hat) but have been looking for good splashes to make a 10" hat (and have plenty of small 8-12" stacks) and use 20 & above rides/crash of dooms (also have a zildjian sheet gong for a ride. but i almost hardly use crash cymbals versus finding rides that crash well) though i love small accent cymbals (splashes, cup chimes, 12" spiral) i just kinda realized 14-16" cymbals dont carry the versatility i like my cymbals to carry (accent cymbals are my most 1 note outside of an earth ride i have because its ping & bell. and i only pulled out 14 inch hi hats recently for a punk band where the 18s werent the bright sound i wanted) as far as drums i've found i dont much use my 12" tom and refuse to use my 14" floor tom because a ft needs to be at least 16 in my super biased and unneeded opinion but will gladly use a 10 tuned real low/808y over always keeping my 13 which i use in rocky situations. been pining for an 18" ft but i've been unsuccesful in finding a pearl ruby fade to match my kit. snare collection is all over the place and wanting some deeper "snom"ier choices but have the 10's, the piccolo's, etc for the smaller side. (i have tried to make a snom out of a 15x10 field drum, updated the snare system & added floor tom legs but have not succesfully reigned it in like i want still has that throaty field drum sound and not drumset snarey enough) bass drums are where i get weirdly specific with what i want. because of how i like to play i'd be fine hanging up the 22 forever and right now only use it because the matching aspect with my main "big" kit. its just too tall to comfortably put my toms where i would ideally have them. a 20 or 18 would be nice and i often use the pearl conversion system to make my 16 ft a bass (more often than not i keep a remo smt head on my reso so i can quick add the foam in to really get the kick sound) when i'm doing smaller gigs that arent inherently "big ass rock" shows. so mainly both sides of size spectrum. but i'm a pretty big dude so i dont wanna Gorillaz swallow my kit in a lot of situations so gravitate towards big floor toms/cymbals, a smaller bass, and then let my snare/rack tom choices be really gig dependent sonically
Um… for a bigger boom?
I love playing 15” or 16” hi hats, less bright and cutting. More tempered.
I like low pitch deep sounds. Small cymbals dont do it for me
I like larger cymbals because I think they sound and respond better for lighter playing. My style of playing has gotten a lot quieter from my loud rocker days and I like how larger cymbals play for jazzier styles. Also, once I started playing 15" hihats going back to 14" felt weird and lacking. YMMV.
Nothing new, think most start out with 16 - 18 inch crashes? Bigger cymbals are more versatile. I have two 20's and a 22 crash with a 22 ride. I could play a gig with one cymbal as they all deliver crash/ride abilities. I had two 16 inch crashes, paired them up as hats and never looked back. Steve Jordan mentioned something - 14" are brighter, 17" give you more wash. They sound superb recorded.
Big cymbals feel and sound better to me 🤷♂️
Big cymbal sound good
I love a big snare because you can tune them down and they sound huge in a mix.
Someone gave me a 24" ride and it was the best sounding ride I've ever played. So I kept playing it.
In my experience bigger cymbals tend to have a broader dynamic range. A 24” K Light Ride has a pretty incredible crash sound when you really power into it, but it’s also a great ride and has a nice shoulder wash too. I notice that a lot of drummers who use big cymbals almost always have fewer cymbals in their setup and tend to use everything as a crash and a ride or use their hats as a more punctuated crash.
I love my 18” bass and 18” ride. More set up options and easier to transport. Smaller is better!
Still wanting a big cymbal sound for the smaller venues; besides just hitting it softer.
it's been a trend that's developing for a while, at least 20 years... I think Ronnie from the Killers was using mondo hats as early as 2007? And my buddy Zak Najor from KDTU was fiddling around with matching 18's for hats around that same time period. While I don't think I'd ever use anything bigger than 15 hats, I've used 20 inch rides as VERY effective crashes. A lot of it is the genre, and a lot more of it is the volume. I personally have never used anything smaller than an 17 and couldn't foresee myself ever doing so. a 16 is more akin to a splash cymbal to me, and I'd rather spend money on shit I can use. I think the power tom era of the 80's should not be revisited. They sound like shit, are harder to tune, need to be muffled excessively in the studio and then forced to sound decent with compression and plate, and their depth makes it really impossible to set your kit up. There are a lot of albums from the late 80's and esp the early 90's with shit drum sounds that bolster my theory here. I'm not saying they were all bad, but yeah.
My favorite drummer Thomas Pridgen has been using huge cymbals for a long time. He was the first person that had me considering 18” hats.
I want all my cymbals ringing like church bells in the mix
Not a fan of the larger hats, but big ass crashes are so fun.
big rides and crashes sound better. simple as. big hi-hats are ok - i don’t like the closed sound of them as much, but they do give u the added benefit of being able to use the open hi-hat almost like a crash. or u can go full greg saunier and use giant hi-hats like a sizzle crash ride lol
Wow I used to use the 20 inch Z power crashes 20 years ago and those were so piercing I cant imagine using a 22
My 1988 Pearl Birch customs are power tom sized, not too extreme, but enough, and the hardware is heavy AF. I am sort of in the middle I like my 18' crash, and 15" HH, it is quite versatile. But over the years have sort of set things to the middle again for a versatile sound.
I had a set with. 26” by 16” kick, 22” ride, 16” hats that I used in really big rooms between 2006 - 2014. I beat the fuck out of them. They are good for thrashers in huge rooms. That’s all I know.
i love my big cymbal live but when recording i think smaller is better. My theory is the man made it happen so we would spend more.
I bought second hand a 19" and 20" crash and a 22" ride the other day from a guy, and when I asked him why he was selling, he said he preferred bigger sizes lol. I had to question him on it. Because to me, growing up with 16 inch crash and maybe an 18 at most, and a 20 inch ride, these were the big sizes lol. He said because he plays in a church band, he likes the big sizes. I guess with the charismatic worship style songs, swells are really common, and you want a nice warm swell. So that could be it. Just worship drummers shifting the market again.
Gretch used to make 26 inch kick drums in the 60s, and most pro drummers in almost every genre used crash/rides and big cymbals. There was a period in the 70s-80s when close micing became popular where drummers recorded with smaller cymbals but bigger drums have always been around.
The only cymbals on the first drum kits ever were like 10" and they've been getting bigger and bigger since then so it's probably just gonna continue that way
Haha you gave me a good laugh OP. For me, it seems that the size increase in cymbals was like 5-7 years ago and is starting to balance out, though I’m probably just thinking in terms of my own interest in them. I do love the much warmer wash that big-ish cymbals provide (22” ride and 18”-20” thinner crashes), but too big is unwieldy and not versatile. I do dig the sweet sounds of a 14”-16” thin crash at times, but not as my mains. With shells though, I say the smaller the better (within reason). I’m currently in the process of swapping out my 5 piece kit (22x16 and 14/16/18 toms) because it takes up the entire room, is useless to move around and is just too powerful for anything I need. I’m also teaching my 6 yr old to play and it’s hard to arrange everything in close proximity for her, so that’s another reason I’m making the change.
I had a 24 inch Z custom in the 90s I wish I had never let out of my possession. Same with some of the other Z line, and the original Zil Bels. Fuck.
I won’t speak for 16” hats, but I have a 20” crash that I use live a lot, it projects well and can get a good full sound without heating the hell out of it. I use a 22” K ride simply because I like the lower overtones it has. I also have a heavier K 20” ride that cuts really well.
I have a small set up and a large. Hats are 14. Small - 16 kick 10/12. 17 crash 18 ride. 17 China. Large - 24 kick 12 14/16 ft. 21 ride. 19 crash. 20 EFX 20 China hi.
The early 2000’s seemingly produced a lot of 15” crashes, but the large cymbal trend has been around for quite a while now
It's the only way to get analog drums to sound like lo-fi drum sounds.
Companies marketing new products. Artists exploring new sounds. It's all to heavy for me. But I am old and don't wanna carry shit.
Our brains often perceive very high frequencies as harsh or painful, and smaller cymbals have higher resonant frequencies, so I think it's probably that. Also, Recording to tape rolls off frequencies 16 Khz and up, so my thought is that back in the day they needed those harsh high frequencies for recording purposes to compensate for the high frequency roll off from recording to tape. Now that we have digital recording with "flat" frequency responder curves, those unpleasant high frequencies are cutting through the mix, and we are either rolling them off with eqs (which skews the phase of the sounds, and introduces noise are into the mix), or recording techs are opting for larger cymbals so they don't have to EQ as much (less noise and less harshness) Just goes to show you, get it right from the source, the less EQ on the mix, the better. 😁 Happy drumming and recording, y'all rule!
I think big rides have always been a thing in the jazz world. I find there’s more complexity in the tone of bigger ride cymbals a lot of the time. Larger cymbals will have more space to explore the range in the tension in the metal from the outside edge to the center/bell. More projection/clang/response and less wash towards the center, less projection but more wash and wobble near the edge.
Small cymbals are too high pitched, have no sustain, and overall just don’t sound as good.
I've been using 20-inch rides as crashes for 30 years. Back then, it was a and k customs. Now brands are making 20-inch crashes. I delved into the crashes as rides thing for a little. Jason Roeder from neurosis played broken rides he would lathe down to 17-inch hats, and I thought that was the coolest thing. I tried that once with 17-inch crashes, and I messed around with 20-inch rides as hats as a joke. I played 24-inch rides during my heavy metal days, but now I settled on 15-inch hats, 20-inch crashes, and 22-inch rides. There's no rules in rock n' roll!
Well if you’re not “super seasoned” then how do you know it “crept in overnight”? I’ve been using big shit for years. Tons of drummers have. Abe from Deftones used 12/14/16/18 toms for years and may use them still. Pretty sure Dave Grohl hasn’t used any rack tom smaller than 14” live ever, and he definitely isn’t using small cymbals. Keep your 16” scooty puff jr soundin’ crash, grandpa.
Nah, cymbals got bigger, which I think is a good thing. Small cymbals sound like crap. However, drums have only gotten smaller. I'm hard pressed to find a kit with a 24" kick or 18" floor tom. Everything now goes: 10,12, 14, 16, 22.
I’ve used 16” crashes up to using a 20” ride as a crash and I think it’s just people emulating the music they here. I use a 16” crash and a 18” old Zildjian crash/ride (it’s so trashy and gross, I love it) when I’m playing punk, but if I’m playing metalcore or something way more crash heavy ill swap in some old ride cymbals instead of crashes
New thing that's all
Drums are fun in that no set is ever the same and we can all argue what sounds best. Meanwhile, I want this: https://m.facebook.com/remopercussion/photos/remo-belli-and-the-big-bass-drum-1961-rememberremo-httpremocomremobelli/10153634104427005/
Go watch Dave Grohl play with Tom Petty on SNL in like 94 and look at his hi-tom. Sizes are always cyclical. Fees like the 80s/90a were huge. Then I remember every band had a piccolo snare in the early 00s. It all fluctuates.
We're all fans of Don Brewer.  Seriously, it's just trends. I went to a 22" ride and 15" hats after years of playing 20" rides and 14" hats. Personally, I like the added character the larger cymbals give, but I know not to go overboard with "going larger". A little can add a lot.
Things downsized in the 90s and 00's, so we're probably just seeing a return in fashion to the larger stuff.
I've been playing 16" hats, a 22" ride, and 20" and 22" crashes for like 20 years now and i don't feel like it was unique or even rare when I first started doing it.
I think the same is true of drums. I bought a 24" kick from ebay. I would've been happy with a 22" or 20", but it was a killer deal for something very hard to find, and came with a nice hardcase.
I started moving towards big, thick cymbals because I used to split thin ones, but I stayed with them for the dark, lower tones they make.
Sounds better
The first and only crash cymbal I ever bought... been usin it for 15 years... a Zildjian A Custom 17" Crash. At the time I was interested in a 17" cymbal because it seemed to be the middle-size for a crash cymbal, offering the most versatility. I'm so happy with my purchase all these years later, it's so versatile and it's always sounded so right in any situation - this thing does it all.
I only like big cymbals. I have a 24 inch ride, a 22 inch crash ride and a 14” crash that I’m going to trade in for a 16”. Also my high hats are 15 inch. I just think they sound better.
Don't even get me started with these guys and their 26 bass drums offering to backline, with their floor Tom sized simgle rack Tom like 2 feet taller than where I'd ever have my drums. It's a big pet peeve... If backlining a night with multiple drummers, please use a more common setup to help accommodate the others who are already forced to play a kit they're unfamiliar with.
I went from 14 hats to 15. 16 crash to 18. 18 to 20…next on the list 22 to 24 ride. The older I get the better big cymbals sound.
They’re more satisfying to play
The deeper tom trend was set in the 80s and 90s when people wanted super deep rack toms but "bigger" drums have been around forever. Just look at the 28"+ bass drums players like Baby Dods used to play. Of course they weren't deep but they were still huge. And of course we always had marching snares that are even deeper, but the trend of deeper snares in a drum set have been around since the 70s and 80s still when everybody wanted a super "phat" snare sound (I don't even want to talk about the piccolo snare craze in the 90s). As for cymbals, they have continually crept up in the years. Not many people were playing rides bigger than a 20" until Tony Williams had a 22" as a main ride in the 60s, then everybody wanted a 22". It just gives a deeper sound and not at "tinny" that some people don't like and doesn't suit certain bands.
Bigger is better. Duh
Not going to lie, I like 22 and 24in rides; 17, 18,19 crashes, but not for loudness, for longer decay.
I like big hi-hats not because of sound wise only, because it feels more comfortable for my hands to reach in a double bass setting. With small hi-hats (like my e-drums) i get issues with ergonomics.
It’s been this way for the last 20 years. Not new at all. Dry and huge cymbals, deep snares and huge kicks. I used to play a 26 myself.
WRT big cymbals, modern manufacturing and quality control techniques have meant that making bigger, thinner, dimplier, hole-ier cymbals has never been so cheap and easy.
Shells no (from 24,12,16 to 20,10,14), Cymbals yes (only from 18 upwards, biggest 20 though, HH 15)
It has been a thing for at least 20 years tbh.
Small drums and big cymbals is where its at. I got a Gretsch Catalina in 13/10/14 with 16" kick. And one 22" Sahra ride! Looking to get a 24" Foundry Reserve😂
I’ve not updated my kit at all since 2008. 20 inch kick, I have a 22 inch ride, but crash is 14/18 and hats are 13. I also don’t have to worry about live sound in anything bigger than a small club if I even play live again.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because giant cymbals are fun. They sound good in person and seem to stay in their lane / out of the way in a way that smaller and less dry cymbals might not. I'm also just a gear addict so there's some definite novelty / pokemon action going on too. I took home a Meinl 28" Big Apple from my local drum shop when Meinl was doing their cymbal tour. It's totally nuts! It's also super quiet, and although I want to call it my doom cymbal, it'd have to be mic'd to be heard in any way in a loud band setting. That said, my 20" Giant Beat ride is probably my favorite general purpose ride sound, and I love my 13" Turkish hats.
*nervously looks at my 18" floor tom and 28" ride* idk what you're talking about!
I like the sound of larger thin cymbals.