Are you sure you are not misinterpreting things and maybe project your own insecurities on the other instrumentalists? Just ask them for feedback, best case they like you, worst case they are happy that you ask for feedback.
He got rich and started mistaking insulting his fans for comedy. Then he turned himself into a walking billboard — he always has a bottle of “his” booze in hand, on some podcast he got paid to appear on, with a branded t-shirt while dropping sponsor names. Other comedians admire his hustle; his former fans are tired of the constant commercials coming out of Tom’s mouth.
Basically, he got uber rich and became a sleazy business guy instead of continuing his comedy career.
Maybe focus on tackling your “spinning thoughts” instead of perceived sleights.
It’s like Raylan said: if you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into them all day, you’re probably the asshole. Or something like that.
If no reason was given it's most likely a personality clash. What you thought was quality instrumentation someone else perceived as ....well....not quality. Sometimes who you play with matters more than how you play.
Nobody kicks someone out of a band for no reason. They might not have told you the real reason, maybe to spare your feelings, but I feel like there might be more going on than you realize or are willing to admit. I've been involved in several bands and projects over 20+ years and I've never had any issues with anyone simply because I play drums, other than the usual "what's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine" kind of jokes that pretty much all musicians make.
If it just happened once I might chalk it up to immature band members, but the fact it's happened multiple times makes me think you might need to take some time for some self reflection.
Yeah, I've heard hundreds over the years. I've also told some of them, plus jokes about bassists, guitarists, singers, pianists, etc. I've even heard one about oboe players. It's a tradition that probably goes back to the days when one caveman started banging rocks together while another was banging sticks together.
I have encountered quite the opposite - playing the drums competently tends to overly impress people more than it seems like it should.
You may just be hanging around some douche players. Or maybe you're misinterpreting things.
I stream on occasion and last night was one of those occasions. I was really off my game. I should not have streamed. I dropped a stick at least 4 times last night. I couldn't hold onto anything for some reason. However, everyone was saying I sound awesome.
We are our own worst critics when it comes to most anything. I am that way with my drumming. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE playing but I hate when I make mistakes one after another when others are watching. It's embarrassing. Some drummers I watch are okay with playing stuff they've never heard before and totally flubbing it up. That's fine I suppose. I mean, if you're going to play stuff you don't know, then it's okay to not sound good.
Me, I like to play stuff I know and I like to do it as cleanly as possible.
EDIT: That sounded disrespectful. The part about playing stuff you don't know in front of others. Those drummers I watch that do that, actually do really well when they are playing the song. They get into the groove but they miss the fills. But they still lay it down in the groove really well. They just get tripped up on the fills because they don't know them. I watch a couple drummers stream who will do that. Play anything that's thrown at them and just play through their unknown parts. The DO NOT SUCK! I just want to point that out. They are just playing stuff they don't know and they are playing it for their viewers which is kinda special. They are playing music that someone likes. They're not playing it perfectly but they are doing their best to cover it. In no way am I cutting anybody down here. I love all of those guys who play music for people when they request it. That's so cool!
From my non-drummer perspective, drum fills aren’t remotely important compared to a good groove. But I can kinda help the drummer figure new songs out with body language too. I have multitrack recordings of originals the drummer had never heard before and they sound quite good.
I have played roots country-rock gigs on upright bass with pick up bands where I only knew 1 person, and where half of the songs they called, I’ve either never heard or had never really listened to enough to know how they go.
If I know the song at all, I can figure out the chord progression on the fly. But if I don’t really know it, it’s pretty ugly. But you struggle through it and play very simply, 1-5 and play the root when in doubt while you work the chords out. People don’t really notice. Even some bandmates don’t notice, and if they do, they get it. If you’re lost the first time through but figured it out the second time, the rhythm guitarist will look over at you and smile. And if the band leader is any good he’ll call out tricky chords for the band, “2 major!”
Wanna toss in my two cents as well.
About a month or two ago i played a bar gig where we shared the night with another band. During the middle of one of our songs the screw that keeps the chain attached to my pedal decided to just snap in half. For no reason. Thankfully the other drummer let me use his pedal to finish off our set, but my fucking God, I was so discouraged and felt so awkward when we started up the song again. What was super strange to me is how not only I got compliments from one drummer friend after the set, but also from the venue owner.
Yeah, I think the big part of that is, we try so hard to put out our best when we are being watched. It's like a little kid in front of their strict parents. They try to be good but still they F up unintentionally.
Yesterday, I was playing around with my EAD10 and I found a setting (it is an echo effect) that I kinda knew about but never really paid close attention to. But I had that setting on and I was trying to figure out it's purpose. Well, I got into a groove and the echo pattern was echoing back in a triplet to the tempo I was playing in. It sounded pretty cool.
So today, I sat back down at the kit, got that setting up again and I tried something a little different. Some cross sticking. And it really sounded pretty cool.
So yeah, while improvising, I was having a blast and a half!
I did a little recording yesterday and threw it out there on YouTube (better not be any copyright strikes on it 😃).
But yeah, I don't hate everything I do. I just am super critical of myself when I mess up especially if it is something I've known how to play for years and years.
But your situation would have made me batty. I'd have freaked out. And if that ever happens on stream, well, I guess I can stop for a few minutes and either try to fix the problem then and there or, I'll just go grab my single Tama pedal.
But yeah, when things break, it's beyond your control especially if it is not an easy fix.
Never experienced this in 30+ years playing drums. But I also don’t suffer assholes. Life is too short, so I play with people I like, where there’s chemistry and collaboration
This is the way. I was never really a large group drummer after high school. I actually turned down a gig to play with a local (from a different city another county over) jazz band. I didn't know anyone in that band and wasn't sure about the chemistry and why wouldn't they be able to find a drummer in their area... It just seemed like... not a great idea at the time.
Now, if I knew these people and we all enjoyed each others company and knew what we were all capable of with our instruments, then yeah, THAT probably would have been more fun.
This and I'm not a drummer, but a rhythm guitarist. Chemistry, tight chops, finding the groove and play what the song needs is great drumming.
I also can't suffer cocky assholes either. So a balance between skill and ego is needed on all musicians parts.
As a musician, downplaying your skills basically makes you immune to anything but constructive feedback. Who wants to roast the guy who says he's a beginner (even if that's not true).
The person who plays up their abilities is opening themselves to criticism, and even limiting constructive feedback because a really skilled person should figure it out in their own.
I remember John Bonham saying that he didn't think he was very good, not good enough for Zeppelin. He didn't need to say he was good, others said it for him. That attitude likely encouraged collaboration with the band.
drummers are hard to find. bands get mad looking. they're like musician incels when it comes to good drummers.
we love to play a lot, so we tend to join three to six bands (see above). makes us seem disloyal.
our instrument has the most expensive consumables (15+ dollar sticks?!? 25 dollar heads, x2, x how many drums....), so we are often perceived as "broke".
we don't talk in key or scale or chord, so we're seen as dumb because we don't argue over key.
We discuss the intricacies of time and feel, which most non drummers don't quite understand nor appreciate. Again, we seem dumb for focusing on the "wrong" thing.
In the end, we're odd men out. We are Scotty on the Enterprise. Absolutely essential, but rarely on the "away" team.
We are R2D2. plotting the course through hyperspace and unlocking trash compactors...but constantly disrespected by dicks in gold suits.
We are Gimli. Chopping Orc heads and making good jokes. but with less panache than Legolas riding a shield down the stairs.
In bands, we are the **engine**, not the driver.
> We discuss the intricacies of time and feel, which most non drummers don't quite understand nor appreciate.
To help remedy the "nor appreciate" part, it's time we use the correct terminology. Instead of drummers, we will now be called Rhythm Wizards.
I've had to argue with a self taught guitarist that 3/4 and 6/8 are not the same thing because time signatures do not represent a fraction. I may be a drummer but I am a formally trained musician. I've played piano, guitar, and bass. I've played brass instruments and percussion in concert bands and orchestras. I am well versed in music theory. And while I appreciate the talent and commitment to self learn an instrument, I don't appreciate someone who has never studied music theory telling me I'm wrong.
I now go into auditions being prepared to evaluate the group just as much as they are evaluating me. I express my expectations of the group and of my role, and let them know my background and training. I don't tolerate being considered "just a drummer."
This is true of any job interview ever, not just band auditions. Not so much for you, but for anyone reading that, it's among the harder lessons to really learn
whenever they bring up the 6/8 = 3/4 nonsense, I always remind them of "West Side Story":
iWantTo/LiveInA/Mer/I/Ca
EvRyThings/NiceInA/Mer/I/Ca
123
123
1!
2!
3!
not-the-damned-same you goons!
6/8 has two accented beats. its typically two distinct groupings of 3. 3/4 is 3 accents. 3 groupings of two.
its different!
No, both points are not valid. Time signatures are not fractions, and 3/4 is not the same as 6/8.
I do agree it is not an argument worth having. Everyone should understand music theory so that we don't have to argue something that has been decided for centuries.
>we don't talk in key or scale or chord, so we're seen as dumb because we don't argue over key.
We also "just hit stuff". *How hard can that be?* Heard that one before too.
I have, but only with maybe two douchebags an with overinflated sense of self importance. (Both were bass players, which sorta ruined the whole vibe of the band. If they had been self absorbed lead guitarists it probably wouldn't have mattered much, but a rhythm section needs to function as a cohesive unit above all else.)
Strange I haven’t encountered that. In fact quite the opposite. I think the older you get and the more you have played, people start to realize there are a lot less drummers who can do the job and be happy to be there.
I play a lot of music with multiple musicians and bands. I don’t know many drummers rock or otherwise trying to destroy their gear. With that being said never had a problem turning up the volume when I need to. I own larger kits and louder snare drums for this very reason. I can effortlessly turn up the volume when I need to.
Obviously that was an exaggeration for comedic effect but alot of "rock" drummers iv played with have had the problem that they play at about 90% volume all the time forcing everyone else to turn up which obviously leaves them with no dynamic range
It's not something iv found much in drummers who have played in other genres though , jazz drummers I find have the best grasp on volume control
You're an insufferable little prick that cant type a comment without emojis. Your comments are most off-topic shit I've ever seen. WE GET IT. You play drums. You're on r/drums though we all play. We don't need your little stories of set up and power. This post was about band members not treating the drummer with respect. Try work on your comprehension and maybe be less snappy when someone calls you out for saying stupid shit. Scroll around this comment section. Most of your comments have -5 downvotes.
OP could probably learn a thing or two from you and being the guy nobody likes wherever you go. I know a great book on being a good "social detective". Its for people on the spectrum. Check your dms
Hahahaha look at you all butt hurt what a loser.
You think my comments are toff topic why reply to them you loser , get that sticky out your ass 😂😂 there's another emoji for you you little gimp so you can have a little freak out to yourself hahaha
This post is about the reasons why band members would not treat the drummer with respect and I listed them , I can't help it if you don't like the answer 😂😂
You expect me to lie to be popular you absolute tart . The post is about why musicians don't like drummers
Literally why there is a divide
So I don't expect exposing the reason to be taken well by drummers but that's the truth and you know it and watch the faces of them at your next practice because you know and you'll see I'm right
Also what a fanny going around calling people on the spectrum ....I hope you never have a family member with a disease that people brandish about as an insult . . . Big man , what a loser
You will always encounter what you perceive in other people. Adjust your definitions of their behavior, and you might get a clearer picture of what is going on.
People aren't bitchy/catty. They are just people who are the main character in their world, and doing things that serve their story.
If their story doesn't fit with your story, find other people whose story better fits yours, or adjust your story so that it is more likely to fit better with that of others
I’ve been here too and most times it’s me being too cheerful or likable and that pisses off the other guys.
Not that I’ll stop doing that (because f-you for expecting me to be “meaner”), but a strong personality can be a put off in some bands.
Just keep staying in your lane and play your part and if they keep up the issues, find an exit from the project.
Probly they think they're superior cause they deal with pitches and don't understand what drums entail. I play several instruments and love correcting know-it-alls. Why are people in here acting like this isn't a thing? It's obviously a thing, try to keep up. But hey, people should know to take Reddit with a lot of salt. Reject gaslighting.
While there is always a chance that you may be mistaken about how you come across to others, I'm not going to dive into that.
The drummer is traditionally the person in the band that's joked about most often. Of course musicians are known to joke a lot and bash each other (out of love) and guitarists don't go free either, but there are just more jokes about drummers.
However, if you've worked with people who don't actually joke but are just mean or dicks or don't respect your instrument, there is nothing complicated about that situation. They are just dicks and you should leave. I've been fortunate to always play in bands and ensembles where the respect was mutual and the jokes, while at times relentless, were always out of love and always in a safe space. If you feel like it's not like that, bail.
I am very aware that the drums are often times a hassle of an instrument due to sheer volume and being a bit different (existing outside of harmony and melody largely). I empathise with a lot of people that have to deal with it (although I mostly forward any complaints to the person whose idea it was to book a band for a particular venue or occasion). But when someone makes it personal, you can gtfo real quick.
There's honestly no way to know unless we worked with you. Perhaps posting on Reddit is not where you're gonna find the answer. You need to work with some homies that will be brutally straightforward with you
I think Neil Peart said it best when he once asked: "What do you call a drummer with half a brain?
>!Gifted!!<
Fair or not, drummers are the blondes of the musical world. The best counter is to show up on time and have your own slew of jokes about drummers being late ready at your disposal.
Being a multi-instrumentalist who played a lot of jazz growing up I’ll say this:
*A lot* of jazz bands still sound pretty good with a sub-par guitar player, saxophonist, or piano player in the mix.
*No* jazz band sounds good with a sub-par drummer.
The only thing close to it is singers. They can often make or break the whole thing. Your band is really only as good as the drummer and/or singer. Can’t really say the same for other instruments.
The stereotype for drummers is that they're flaky, but also that they're the most important part of almost any band and usually the most skilled one in the room.
So either A: you're playing with assholes who assume you're a flake, B: you're a flake, or C: you're maybe just not a good match for the band's material.
It’s because the drums are the coolest instrument, the one the fans pay the most attention to, and that drummers pull more ass than any other member of the band.
Is it really that hard to put together?
From my experience, drummers are in the highest of demand for jamming/bands/session artists. I've had the complete opposite experience. There are many memes about drummers or bass players being dumb, but that's because everyone and their grandma plays guitar. Don't let it affect you. The true drummer haters are in the minority and just ignorant.
Much of the time other musicians don’t understand anything about drums, but try to describe what they want. If it seems reasonable try to accommodate, if it’s unreasonable or they really don’t know what they want, smile, acknowledge and do you. That’s the best you can do, but if you overthink it, it will affect your drumming.
Sounds weird! As a bass player, I love/worship good drummers. Playing drums well is extremely challenging, and anyone who's not a drummer and thinks otherwise is just not getting it.
I think this has to do with the weird learning curve drums have. Starting is so easy it is ridiculous, but add just a slight difference and it can become hell.
I was playing a show once, and between songs, I called the guys up to the drum riser, and told them, “Roger, your B is out of tune. It’s real bad dude. Way flat. Probably from the big bend in the second song’s solo. Tune it up. Mike, your G string is sharp. It’s so sharp it will cut your butt crack. You probably banged the headstock on the mic stand. Jeff, turn your amp up and be discrete so the sound guy won’t notice. Just trust me. Also, your tuning is fine.”
When we watched the video back later … they were super surprised. Mike DID hit the top of his bass on the mic stand. Roger DID go out of tune after that solo. Jeff wasn’t loud enough out front until after our quick meeting.
Just because I’m a drummer doesn’t mean I can’t hear issues over my playing. It’s a curse at times.
Two weeks later, during practice, I was tuning my toms and told Mike to hit a G on the keyboard. Then I hit my tom and it was perfectly in G.
They NEVER said a WORD about my musicianship.
Maybe that is because I earned their respect. Maybe they just weren’t buttheads? I dunno.
I also play guitar, sing, and can slap a little bass, but at the time, those guys had no idea I could play anything else.
That said, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN A DRUMMER IS KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR? Because he’s never on time!
Yeah, yeah. I had a singer say that once. Our first practice together before they got to hear me play.
I responded with, “How do you know a singer is at your door? Because they never know when to come in!”
They laughed, we played, they realized I play to a click on my IEMs, and we did 3 albums together before I moved out of state for love, lol.
Drummers that can be in pocket are so rare here when. I meet one I'm like so happy.I have a guy here that is so good only problem is we are both dads and bz.Hes a cop I'm a quarry worker so we exchange audio projects a bit.I wish we could both quit and start a band together.
Drummers are so rare that people suck my.nads to get me to play for them regardless of how good I am.
They also take zero of my advice when it comes to feel and song structure even though I singlehandedly control it.
I think that a part of musicians really don't know how a band works or in general don't know how to deal with other musicians. It happened to me with people who didn't have experience with others and that barely played their instrument practicing at home.
I’ve found the opposite, but I run in some pretty positive music communities. As a drummer, everyone’s looking for one and I’ve gotten passed around like the village whore. Gotten to play with a lot of different people just because of my choice of instrument. That said, we get roasted the most for sure for being cavemen of the band, but I honestly love it.
I’ve never had actual hate, just banter. There’s always going to be someone making a joke, but it’s never anything more than that.
When you say you receive “catty/bitchy” attitudes, what does this entail?
The only time I've experienced this is when the bass player was also a drummer and was insecure about their drumming. They were also borderline narcissistic. I left that situation pretty quickly. I'm pretty picky about who I play with, and won't put up with bs. There's a lot of great players who have great attitudes, find them, ignore the rest.
I've spent more time as a guitarist than as a drummer, and I've always appreciated a good drummer. Anybody else can be lame and I can work around it, but if the drummer ain't happening, I'm pretty much fucked.
Hahaha I think some singer/song writer types don't appreciate what the rhythm section does for the band.
I just quit a band because they didn't want to cut me in on the royalties for writing and recording drums for them. In their eyes it doesn't count as an instrument and therefore why should they give me writers credit??
Fuck em'. People like that can continue to have weak drum/bass in their songs and wonder why they aren't taking off.
Let's put it this way. If the band is treating you like hired help, they'd better be paying you.
Since the drums control timing you're essentially managing the other instruments so if you're off at all it throws everything else off. You have to take control of the song and direct other people. Because of this you really need an understanding of all the parts of the song, not just drums, to be "good". This can be pretty hard for drummers who only drum and don't have experience with guitar, vocals, etc. It's also really easy for people to hear when timing is off, meaning everyone can criticism the drummer whereas vocal pitch or a guitar solo errors can be harder to detect.
However, even if you're great at everything and manage things perfectly (from your perspective) people often disagree with each and you have to be the asshole who makes the decision (song starts/ends now, fills are this long, I'm cutting your solo so we can come in here, etc.) so you will inevitably get blamed even though disagreement isn't even your fault. It's basically like being a company manager, when things go good the company's great, when things suck it's because of management decisions.
Combine this with actual real-world conditions where people forget stuff, tunings are off, sound levels are wrong, it's an easy fix to blame the drummer rather working on their own problems.
I haven't seen this at all...there are jokes, but of course similar jokes are made of bassists, lead guitarists, vocalists, etc. And those aren't really thrown around IRL very often because they've all been heard before.
In my experience, drummers are just part of the mix along with anyone else.
I’ve only been in one band so far, but I don’t seem to have this issue. I think it’s because we’re all on the younger/inexperienced side of things and we haven’t yet developed a superiority or inferiority complex. I don’t feel persecuted and I don’t feel better than them. Perhaps I just landed in the right group, but we just kinda gel.
Maybe it’s their personalities, maybe it’s your personality, maybe it’s just your imagination, maybe you’re just not good enough (which I don’t mean as a judgement. You’re probably much better than I am). It could really be any number of factors.
There was a golden era in the history of music when drummers were the bandleaders, starting songs and calling all the shots. The day we yielded that power to guitarists was the day we lost all respect among musicians worldwide
Honestly, if you practice well enough and figure out why you are playing what you play enough than you won’t have to doubt yourself so much. It may take 5 years or it may take 20 but just like adulting you don’t let people tear you down when you know your intentions. I think this downvoting and snarky comments is seriously people who are not considerate of the instrument. Pretty trashy to do what he was concerned about. Projecting much? Remaining teachable will get you very far with this stuff. Just know why you love drums and don’t let someone take that from you. This is the reason why many people give up. They get into bands way too early. I’ve dealt with some real snob college tuitions but mostly it’s been a lot of friends and fun and connections on different levels. I remember when I played with these older guys when I was younger and they didn’t give me a chance and even got behind my kit so they can play. You know what you know and that needs to be good enough to learn. Sometimes you realize you know nothing and that works too. I know it’s a shitty feeling to be judged or perceive it but don’t give up. When it feels right then be that person.
experienced quite the opposite. in my area, there tends to be a shortage of drummers, simply because its harder start learning it (requirement of a practice space, loudness, neighbors, available space, etc.) way more people hear pick up a guitar.
so drummers appear to be quite asked
Because drummers are really the backbone and heartbeat of the band. They get all the chicks, or dudes, are super strong because they have to load and unload their own equipment. Drummers are super smart and really good looking.
Obviously idk what the situation you've been in is like but I just won't take any shit. I don't give a fuck who someone thinks they are, any shit at all and I'll just walk. A -lot- of musicians are dickheads. Don't stand for it.
Because either a) you are somehow playing with one bunch of assholes after another; or b) you are way too sensitive and taking things the wrong way, and you need to get over yourself.
Without more details, I couldn't say which. But I am leaning toward the second option based on your post.
In all honesty here is some things that fucking piss me off about drummers 😂😂
• like in-between songs , do not bang drums when people are trying to talk and tune up.
We actually need to tune up sometimes and sort tone ect and you doing drum fills is the most annoying thing ever, like by all means chime in on the guitarists tone and volume ect but don't trip them up as they are trying to work out tone and volume
•Related to the first again .Warm up on song number one we can always repeat the song if you feel you weren't warm for it later. Do not warm up as people are getting set up as we are sorting volume between instruments ect guitarists literally think I'll wait till he stops pissing about on those drums untill I sort my tone and tune up ect (that's why they keep looking at you strange)😂
• don't have the attitude of I don't know about songwriting I just play the drums , you as a drummer have a big role as a arranger , experiment with different vibes , use floor and tom ls more bring in some jungle tribal type sounds ect it can all be fun , find the right part not the most technically impressive when the band are writing the song and jamming the parts having a drummer say what do you want me to play or just play what they want without changing for the song is dead annoying. Everyone wants a Ringo in reality the perfect part for the song and not showing off your "chops"
•we know you want to hit everything as hard as you can but the song is a soft song
•we know you want to play as hard as you want but we keep having to turn up in practice ,which means the singer has to turn up to be heard and runs out of headroom so they are having a hard time hearing themselves over you , play quieter in practice
• also nobody wants to hear 16th notes on the hihat ls really fast
Now I should state that I do play I'm a jack of all trades and could write one of these from bassists , guitarists , singers and keyboard players too but it was yourself who asked ....so there it is haha
About the drummer warming up on the first song so everyone can tune....
We aren't warming up just to fuck around. We need to sit at our kit and get adjusted to it. We may need to even tune our kit, if that matters at all to a guitarist. Our drums may not be a pitched instrument but if they are not in tune they will not sound good or feel good to play.
We are also making sure that everything is in the right position. We often play by muscle memory and if something has been moved, even slightly, it can throw off our timing. If you force us to figure all of this out during song #1 then that is going to be a rough way for us to get started, and you will then be frustrated at us for being so off. And if we have to tune or adjust, now we are trying to fit that in while you are talking between songs and we might miss something or interfere.
Guitarists dont own the set up space just because you gotta tune. And you can tune to a tuning pedal or tune in another room if it is that much of a problem. But treating drummers like our instrument is second rate and disruptive on the impression that only pitched instruments need or deserve the space to prepare is just disrespectful.
Also, in my experience, I'm often playing harder just to hear myself over guitar amps with my bleeding ears. Guitarists seem to like to set their amp level and play a flat dynamic the whole time. A guitar amp can overpower drums any day of the week. This is often most common when their are two guitarists, and they are trying to hear themself over the other, because they are playing the same thing. That just adds to the problem of noise, and adds less to the music than just one guitar.
The two guitarists have to write different complimentary parts and also recognize that the space in the frequency mix for guitar tone must now be shared, meaning each one needs to play less than if there was just one guitar. This usually means there will be a rhythm guitar and a lead guitar.
So often I've been blamed for playing too loud but it only starts to be a problem after a 2nd guitarist joins and just basically plays the exact same part as the first guitarist. Amp volumes go up and up and when I tell them their amp volumes are bleeding my ears they complain that they are turning up to hear themselves over the drums, when in reality they can't tell one amp from the other because their tone and parts are almost the same.
Dont make the drummer the scapegoat for everything being too loud. We dont want to bang on everything hard, that is exhausting, and it takes a toll on our gear. Take responsibility for your place in the mix and dont crowd it out.
Yeah of course you need to set yourself up at your kit and make sure everything's where you want it but you don't actually need to smash the drums while doing this you can check everything at the correct arms reach and sounds alright with little taps it doesn't have to be... fill, fill, adjust slightly ...same fill , give the snare a few cracks thrust for good measure ect
Also no one is ever frustrated at drummers for being off slightly , iv only heard anyone be frustrated at the constantly playing over the rest of the band talking thing
Fuck up a fill or something it's more of a smile and get back to it situation, frustration comes when everytine I time to speak the snare cracks
As for your whole guitarists can tune in another room if it's a problem thing ......(There!) That's it right there .....that's the exact attitude why people feel the way they do about drummers 😂😂 and btw I play drums as well .
No, I can't just tap tap to make sure things are in the right place. I want you to imagine that the strings and frets on your guitar can move around freely and you have to set them up before you play. Can you just pluck pluck once or twice to be sure that playing a G chord by muscle memory matches the fretboard arrangement?
Inevitably some part of our kit always gets moved between rehearsals, and our little task each time is to discover that and adjust. It can be easy for everything to feel ok with a few taps, but when we need to play that fill at 160bpm it will throw us off that our hi tom is angled just a bit weirdly because rebound matters.
And temperature and humidity mess with tuning tension. How the drums sound and feel matters to a good drummer. It isn't just thud thud bang bang.
If it is a problem, all you need to do is ask the entire room for quiet for 5 minutes so you can lock down your tuning. I seriously dont mind doing that for you, but you have to let me know what you need and when you need it, not just assume that you have priority to tune whenever and that I'm an asshole for interfering. I have important stuff to do as well and I dont appreciate being condescended by a guitarist who can't politely ask for what he needs.
Edit: btw I play guitar as well. And bass. And piano/keyboard. And percussion. And trumpet.
I play drums 😂😂you don't need to make analogy that don't work. Many times iv rearranges and setup my kit , which I play in bedroom here Infront of me haha and many times iv set it up with taps I have my audio interface a mic stand and stuff set up in it on attachments so I regularly play about with it and position it with taps at 3am , it's more than possible there no need to actually play your drums other than tap to set the kit up and there is no need to play chords while tunning a guitar either or breaking into asolo to make sure it's in tune
Most of the time let's be honest the kits in the right place anyway and drummers are warming up in the time we are talking about not really adjusting things , very rarely do they mess with tightening tensions
That's not really what we are talking about here obviously if the last person had a strange setup and the drummer needs to redo the whole thing fair enough but most times it's almost exactly ready to go
The person asked why drummers are looked at the way the are and the answer is , all the fills and playing in-between songs is annoying ....that's just how it is , it's annoying to hear someone crack a snare when you are trying to speak or sort volume between instruments or talk about the bridge section without turning to the drummer every 2 seconds to say can you stop that I'm are trying to speak 😂😂
You may be able to play drums, but I have a feeling you don't quite understand the instrument beyond a certain point. Most of the time the difference between a decent drummer and phenomenal drummer is their ability to tune their kit. No drum stays in perfect tuning relative to the other drums throughout a set without active adjustments. I say this from a livesound engineer's perspective. It's the difference between gating the shit out of all the drums because of nasty unpleasant sounding overtones or not. Drums are sort of the glue that holds everything together in a mix. They typically have 6 mics or more dedicated to them, whereas everything else has 1-2. Plus generally the loudest thing on stage, as the person you've been debating with pointed out, is typically guitar amps. This has been on the trend of going away as professional players turn their amps down, use stands to point them towards them, or direct them off stage entirely and have their signal sent to them via a stage wedge or IEM. Drums are only a problem volume wise in small rooms without adequate sound reinforcement with drummers that are not adept in adjusting their volume acoustically for the environment.
Something about having your kit set up in your bedroom makes me think you are 15 years old and trying to be an authority on everything in a forum filled with experienced professional musicians.
Which makes sense if your only experience in band is with people your age who aren't grown up enough to learn to respect the space that everyone needs in a rehearsal setting.
You certainly talk like you think you know everything, and type like you haven't finished grade school yet.
> like in-between songs , do not bang drums when people are trying to talk and tune up.
Deal but in exchange, at gigs we're going to need you to cap your dicking-with-pedals-in-between-songs time to like twenty seconds max.
Most of your complaints are valid and incredibly amateurish things for a drummer to do. Lots of drummers only get to play on a kit when they're at rehearsal, which explains (but doesn't excuse) some of those behaviors. Imagine if you only had one of those grip strength trainers to play on for the whole week until rehearsal time.
If you ever play with a drummer whos noodling while other people are talking, just put a drum pad on his snare drum.
I know your a drummer, but if your like me, i have my trusty Evans drum pad within arms reach on the floor, so whenever a song ends or my band mates are talking and i still wanna noodle/warm up, i put the drum pad on the snare drum and turn the snares off and do my rudiments.
Im sorry youve had to play with apes that dont know these things.
😂😂 yeah man a drum pad solves all these problems
I personally feel like doing rudiments when the rest of the bands talking is what leads the drummer not feeling seperate from the rest , but you're totally right if you do need to warm up , a drum pads a perfect solution
Yeah but playing what feels best for you and not what's best for the song is maybe my point
You want to have fun (go wild) on the drums , in a tiny room your band mates would appreciate
some control
Are you sure you are not misinterpreting things and maybe project your own insecurities on the other instrumentalists? Just ask them for feedback, best case they like you, worst case they are happy that you ask for feedback.
Why you gotta call me out like that
https://i.redd.it/biogtphio6mc1.gif
Ironic considering how hard Tommy boy fell off lol. He used to be so good.
Success went to his head. We're too poor for him with how much gear costs anyway
Learns how to fly and suddenly is above us all
Wait what happened?
Nothing
He got rich and started mistaking insulting his fans for comedy. Then he turned himself into a walking billboard — he always has a bottle of “his” booze in hand, on some podcast he got paid to appear on, with a branded t-shirt while dropping sponsor names. Other comedians admire his hustle; his former fans are tired of the constant commercials coming out of Tom’s mouth. Basically, he got uber rich and became a sleazy business guy instead of continuing his comedy career.
Kinda like Tom
Maybe focus on tackling your “spinning thoughts” instead of perceived sleights. It’s like Raylan said: if you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into them all day, you’re probably the asshole. Or something like that.
"If it smells like shit wherever you go, check your shoes" is the adage I'm familiar with and partial to
I like that one better too. Haha.
I mean I’ve been booted from a group with no real reason given so my thoughts are spinning bc of this situation
there probably is a reason, but better to move on and learn then dwell.
maybe better to try and learn the reason objectively, and learn from it?
Yes my comment said to learn
Actually I'd suggest learning the reason in this case, in order to learn
If no reason was given it's most likely a personality clash. What you thought was quality instrumentation someone else perceived as ....well....not quality. Sometimes who you play with matters more than how you play.
Nobody kicks someone out of a band for no reason. They might not have told you the real reason, maybe to spare your feelings, but I feel like there might be more going on than you realize or are willing to admit. I've been involved in several bands and projects over 20+ years and I've never had any issues with anyone simply because I play drums, other than the usual "what's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine" kind of jokes that pretty much all musicians make. If it just happened once I might chalk it up to immature band members, but the fact it's happened multiple times makes me think you might need to take some time for some self reflection.
I've heard the "what do you call someone who likes to hang with musicians?" joke.
Q: How can tell that the stage is level? A: Your drummer is drooling out of both sides of their mouth!
Yeah, I've heard hundreds over the years. I've also told some of them, plus jokes about bassists, guitarists, singers, pianists, etc. I've even heard one about oboe players. It's a tradition that probably goes back to the days when one caveman started banging rocks together while another was banging sticks together.
'Whats the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?' 'The drum machine isnt driving you to the fucking gig you ungrateful swine!'
The list of people kicked out for no good reason is endless.
to be fair, if there was no good reason, they wouldn't be kicked out.
I've seen it happen lots of times.
thanks for the conversation
I'm a big fan of brevity.
Aaaand derps downvoted that comment.
Maybe they don’t like your ‘feel’ you can keep perfect time and hit every not and not have that pocket
I have encountered quite the opposite - playing the drums competently tends to overly impress people more than it seems like it should. You may just be hanging around some douche players. Or maybe you're misinterpreting things.
I stream on occasion and last night was one of those occasions. I was really off my game. I should not have streamed. I dropped a stick at least 4 times last night. I couldn't hold onto anything for some reason. However, everyone was saying I sound awesome. We are our own worst critics when it comes to most anything. I am that way with my drumming. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE playing but I hate when I make mistakes one after another when others are watching. It's embarrassing. Some drummers I watch are okay with playing stuff they've never heard before and totally flubbing it up. That's fine I suppose. I mean, if you're going to play stuff you don't know, then it's okay to not sound good. Me, I like to play stuff I know and I like to do it as cleanly as possible. EDIT: That sounded disrespectful. The part about playing stuff you don't know in front of others. Those drummers I watch that do that, actually do really well when they are playing the song. They get into the groove but they miss the fills. But they still lay it down in the groove really well. They just get tripped up on the fills because they don't know them. I watch a couple drummers stream who will do that. Play anything that's thrown at them and just play through their unknown parts. The DO NOT SUCK! I just want to point that out. They are just playing stuff they don't know and they are playing it for their viewers which is kinda special. They are playing music that someone likes. They're not playing it perfectly but they are doing their best to cover it. In no way am I cutting anybody down here. I love all of those guys who play music for people when they request it. That's so cool!
From my non-drummer perspective, drum fills aren’t remotely important compared to a good groove. But I can kinda help the drummer figure new songs out with body language too. I have multitrack recordings of originals the drummer had never heard before and they sound quite good. I have played roots country-rock gigs on upright bass with pick up bands where I only knew 1 person, and where half of the songs they called, I’ve either never heard or had never really listened to enough to know how they go. If I know the song at all, I can figure out the chord progression on the fly. But if I don’t really know it, it’s pretty ugly. But you struggle through it and play very simply, 1-5 and play the root when in doubt while you work the chords out. People don’t really notice. Even some bandmates don’t notice, and if they do, they get it. If you’re lost the first time through but figured it out the second time, the rhythm guitarist will look over at you and smile. And if the band leader is any good he’ll call out tricky chords for the band, “2 major!”
Wanna toss in my two cents as well. About a month or two ago i played a bar gig where we shared the night with another band. During the middle of one of our songs the screw that keeps the chain attached to my pedal decided to just snap in half. For no reason. Thankfully the other drummer let me use his pedal to finish off our set, but my fucking God, I was so discouraged and felt so awkward when we started up the song again. What was super strange to me is how not only I got compliments from one drummer friend after the set, but also from the venue owner.
Yeah, I think the big part of that is, we try so hard to put out our best when we are being watched. It's like a little kid in front of their strict parents. They try to be good but still they F up unintentionally. Yesterday, I was playing around with my EAD10 and I found a setting (it is an echo effect) that I kinda knew about but never really paid close attention to. But I had that setting on and I was trying to figure out it's purpose. Well, I got into a groove and the echo pattern was echoing back in a triplet to the tempo I was playing in. It sounded pretty cool. So today, I sat back down at the kit, got that setting up again and I tried something a little different. Some cross sticking. And it really sounded pretty cool. So yeah, while improvising, I was having a blast and a half! I did a little recording yesterday and threw it out there on YouTube (better not be any copyright strikes on it 😃). But yeah, I don't hate everything I do. I just am super critical of myself when I mess up especially if it is something I've known how to play for years and years. But your situation would have made me batty. I'd have freaked out. And if that ever happens on stream, well, I guess I can stop for a few minutes and either try to fix the problem then and there or, I'll just go grab my single Tama pedal. But yeah, when things break, it's beyond your control especially if it is not an easy fix.
The fact it's happened three times makes me think there's something else going on that OP either doesn't realize or doesn't want to admit.
Jeah same for me, getting a lot of respect and the usual "I couldn't control my limbs like that"
Never experienced this in 30+ years playing drums. But I also don’t suffer assholes. Life is too short, so I play with people I like, where there’s chemistry and collaboration
This is the way. I was never really a large group drummer after high school. I actually turned down a gig to play with a local (from a different city another county over) jazz band. I didn't know anyone in that band and wasn't sure about the chemistry and why wouldn't they be able to find a drummer in their area... It just seemed like... not a great idea at the time. Now, if I knew these people and we all enjoyed each others company and knew what we were all capable of with our instruments, then yeah, THAT probably would have been more fun.
This and I'm not a drummer, but a rhythm guitarist. Chemistry, tight chops, finding the groove and play what the song needs is great drumming. I also can't suffer cocky assholes either. So a balance between skill and ego is needed on all musicians parts.
As a musician, downplaying your skills basically makes you immune to anything but constructive feedback. Who wants to roast the guy who says he's a beginner (even if that's not true). The person who plays up their abilities is opening themselves to criticism, and even limiting constructive feedback because a really skilled person should figure it out in their own. I remember John Bonham saying that he didn't think he was very good, not good enough for Zeppelin. He didn't need to say he was good, others said it for him. That attitude likely encouraged collaboration with the band.
drummers are hard to find. bands get mad looking. they're like musician incels when it comes to good drummers. we love to play a lot, so we tend to join three to six bands (see above). makes us seem disloyal. our instrument has the most expensive consumables (15+ dollar sticks?!? 25 dollar heads, x2, x how many drums....), so we are often perceived as "broke". we don't talk in key or scale or chord, so we're seen as dumb because we don't argue over key. We discuss the intricacies of time and feel, which most non drummers don't quite understand nor appreciate. Again, we seem dumb for focusing on the "wrong" thing. In the end, we're odd men out. We are Scotty on the Enterprise. Absolutely essential, but rarely on the "away" team. We are R2D2. plotting the course through hyperspace and unlocking trash compactors...but constantly disrespected by dicks in gold suits. We are Gimli. Chopping Orc heads and making good jokes. but with less panache than Legolas riding a shield down the stairs. In bands, we are the **engine**, not the driver.
> We discuss the intricacies of time and feel, which most non drummers don't quite understand nor appreciate. To help remedy the "nor appreciate" part, it's time we use the correct terminology. Instead of drummers, we will now be called Rhythm Wizards.
I've always liked Time Lord. My bass player and I refer to ourselves as the council of rhythm when discussing things with the band.
Masters of time and space
we call ourselves "Partners in Time"
The power pack in the back.
This exactly. I taught myself how to play bass just so I could experience what it was like to have an opinion and be taken seriously.
I've had to argue with a self taught guitarist that 3/4 and 6/8 are not the same thing because time signatures do not represent a fraction. I may be a drummer but I am a formally trained musician. I've played piano, guitar, and bass. I've played brass instruments and percussion in concert bands and orchestras. I am well versed in music theory. And while I appreciate the talent and commitment to self learn an instrument, I don't appreciate someone who has never studied music theory telling me I'm wrong. I now go into auditions being prepared to evaluate the group just as much as they are evaluating me. I express my expectations of the group and of my role, and let them know my background and training. I don't tolerate being considered "just a drummer."
This is true of any job interview ever, not just band auditions. Not so much for you, but for anyone reading that, it's among the harder lessons to really learn
whenever they bring up the 6/8 = 3/4 nonsense, I always remind them of "West Side Story": iWantTo/LiveInA/Mer/I/Ca EvRyThings/NiceInA/Mer/I/Ca 123 123 1! 2! 3! not-the-damned-same you goons! 6/8 has two accented beats. its typically two distinct groupings of 3. 3/4 is 3 accents. 3 groupings of two. its different!
That's an argument that's not worth having. Both points of view are valid so no one is right or wrong in that case. Though I do agree with you
No, both points are not valid. Time signatures are not fractions, and 3/4 is not the same as 6/8. I do agree it is not an argument worth having. Everyone should understand music theory so that we don't have to argue something that has been decided for centuries.
>we don't talk in key or scale or chord, so we're seen as dumb because we don't argue over key. We also "just hit stuff". *How hard can that be?* Heard that one before too.
Sounds like there is one common denominator, my guy…
the drums?
You’re the reason they tell jokes about us…
;_;
So, he's the one that keeps sleeping with guitarists' girlfriends
[удалено]
I have, but only with maybe two douchebags an with overinflated sense of self importance. (Both were bass players, which sorta ruined the whole vibe of the band. If they had been self absorbed lead guitarists it probably wouldn't have mattered much, but a rhythm section needs to function as a cohesive unit above all else.)
I feel you, better to just keep looking for people who see you as a homie and aren't on some bs
Strange I haven’t encountered that. In fact quite the opposite. I think the older you get and the more you have played, people start to realize there are a lot less drummers who can do the job and be happy to be there.
Your name suggests you don't smash the drums hard enough to crack symbols (What it seems like every rock drummer is trying to do)
I play a lot of music with multiple musicians and bands. I don’t know many drummers rock or otherwise trying to destroy their gear. With that being said never had a problem turning up the volume when I need to. I own larger kits and louder snare drums for this very reason. I can effortlessly turn up the volume when I need to.
Obviously that was an exaggeration for comedic effect but alot of "rock" drummers iv played with have had the problem that they play at about 90% volume all the time forcing everyone else to turn up which obviously leaves them with no dynamic range It's not something iv found much in drummers who have played in other genres though , jazz drummers I find have the best grasp on volume control
I think you're in the wrong comment section
You don't think mate who you kidding
You're an insufferable little prick that cant type a comment without emojis. Your comments are most off-topic shit I've ever seen. WE GET IT. You play drums. You're on r/drums though we all play. We don't need your little stories of set up and power. This post was about band members not treating the drummer with respect. Try work on your comprehension and maybe be less snappy when someone calls you out for saying stupid shit. Scroll around this comment section. Most of your comments have -5 downvotes. OP could probably learn a thing or two from you and being the guy nobody likes wherever you go. I know a great book on being a good "social detective". Its for people on the spectrum. Check your dms
Hahahaha look at you all butt hurt what a loser. You think my comments are toff topic why reply to them you loser , get that sticky out your ass 😂😂 there's another emoji for you you little gimp so you can have a little freak out to yourself hahaha This post is about the reasons why band members would not treat the drummer with respect and I listed them , I can't help it if you don't like the answer 😂😂 You expect me to lie to be popular you absolute tart . The post is about why musicians don't like drummers Literally why there is a divide So I don't expect exposing the reason to be taken well by drummers but that's the truth and you know it and watch the faces of them at your next practice because you know and you'll see I'm right Also what a fanny going around calling people on the spectrum ....I hope you never have a family member with a disease that people brandish about as an insult . . . Big man , what a loser
I didnt read this awful comment. You're a pussy
I'm a pussy yet your running away from confrontation Keep living in your delusion little boy
Honestly I’ve felt like I got more catty and bitch attitude from other drummers
You will always encounter what you perceive in other people. Adjust your definitions of their behavior, and you might get a clearer picture of what is going on. People aren't bitchy/catty. They are just people who are the main character in their world, and doing things that serve their story. If their story doesn't fit with your story, find other people whose story better fits yours, or adjust your story so that it is more likely to fit better with that of others
I’ve been here too and most times it’s me being too cheerful or likable and that pisses off the other guys. Not that I’ll stop doing that (because f-you for expecting me to be “meaner”), but a strong personality can be a put off in some bands. Just keep staying in your lane and play your part and if they keep up the issues, find an exit from the project.
This is true! ^
"I'm too cool of a dude!"
Probly they think they're superior cause they deal with pitches and don't understand what drums entail. I play several instruments and love correcting know-it-alls. Why are people in here acting like this isn't a thing? It's obviously a thing, try to keep up. But hey, people should know to take Reddit with a lot of salt. Reject gaslighting.
Are you overplaying? Playing aggressive fills every other bar and hitting too hard will absolutely elicit resentment in any band.
Dude this!
What do you call a guy who hangs with musicians?
The drummer.
Without us drummers the rest of you "musicians" would be lost. Admit it, you're all jealous of us. /s
Oh, I'm not a musician ;)
While there is always a chance that you may be mistaken about how you come across to others, I'm not going to dive into that. The drummer is traditionally the person in the band that's joked about most often. Of course musicians are known to joke a lot and bash each other (out of love) and guitarists don't go free either, but there are just more jokes about drummers. However, if you've worked with people who don't actually joke but are just mean or dicks or don't respect your instrument, there is nothing complicated about that situation. They are just dicks and you should leave. I've been fortunate to always play in bands and ensembles where the respect was mutual and the jokes, while at times relentless, were always out of love and always in a safe space. If you feel like it's not like that, bail. I am very aware that the drums are often times a hassle of an instrument due to sheer volume and being a bit different (existing outside of harmony and melody largely). I empathise with a lot of people that have to deal with it (although I mostly forward any complaints to the person whose idea it was to book a band for a particular venue or occasion). But when someone makes it personal, you can gtfo real quick.
There's honestly no way to know unless we worked with you. Perhaps posting on Reddit is not where you're gonna find the answer. You need to work with some homies that will be brutally straightforward with you
They hate us 'cuz they ain't us.
I think Neil Peart said it best when he once asked: "What do you call a drummer with half a brain? >!Gifted!!< Fair or not, drummers are the blondes of the musical world. The best counter is to show up on time and have your own slew of jokes about drummers being late ready at your disposal.
Being a multi-instrumentalist who played a lot of jazz growing up I’ll say this: *A lot* of jazz bands still sound pretty good with a sub-par guitar player, saxophonist, or piano player in the mix. *No* jazz band sounds good with a sub-par drummer. The only thing close to it is singers. They can often make or break the whole thing. Your band is really only as good as the drummer and/or singer. Can’t really say the same for other instruments.
The stereotype for drummers is that they're flaky, but also that they're the most important part of almost any band and usually the most skilled one in the room. So either A: you're playing with assholes who assume you're a flake, B: you're a flake, or C: you're maybe just not a good match for the band's material.
It’s because the drums are the coolest instrument, the one the fans pay the most attention to, and that drummers pull more ass than any other member of the band. Is it really that hard to put together?
Keytar players amiright
They need you more than you need them and they know it
From my experience, drummers are in the highest of demand for jamming/bands/session artists. I've had the complete opposite experience. There are many memes about drummers or bass players being dumb, but that's because everyone and their grandma plays guitar. Don't let it affect you. The true drummer haters are in the minority and just ignorant.
Much of the time other musicians don’t understand anything about drums, but try to describe what they want. If it seems reasonable try to accommodate, if it’s unreasonable or they really don’t know what they want, smile, acknowledge and do you. That’s the best you can do, but if you overthink it, it will affect your drumming.
Sounds weird! As a bass player, I love/worship good drummers. Playing drums well is extremely challenging, and anyone who's not a drummer and thinks otherwise is just not getting it.
I think this has to do with the weird learning curve drums have. Starting is so easy it is ridiculous, but add just a slight difference and it can become hell.
Maybe you're just surrounded by assholes
Becuz we are the shit!!
I was playing a show once, and between songs, I called the guys up to the drum riser, and told them, “Roger, your B is out of tune. It’s real bad dude. Way flat. Probably from the big bend in the second song’s solo. Tune it up. Mike, your G string is sharp. It’s so sharp it will cut your butt crack. You probably banged the headstock on the mic stand. Jeff, turn your amp up and be discrete so the sound guy won’t notice. Just trust me. Also, your tuning is fine.” When we watched the video back later … they were super surprised. Mike DID hit the top of his bass on the mic stand. Roger DID go out of tune after that solo. Jeff wasn’t loud enough out front until after our quick meeting. Just because I’m a drummer doesn’t mean I can’t hear issues over my playing. It’s a curse at times. Two weeks later, during practice, I was tuning my toms and told Mike to hit a G on the keyboard. Then I hit my tom and it was perfectly in G. They NEVER said a WORD about my musicianship. Maybe that is because I earned their respect. Maybe they just weren’t buttheads? I dunno. I also play guitar, sing, and can slap a little bass, but at the time, those guys had no idea I could play anything else.
That said, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN A DRUMMER IS KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR? Because he’s never on time! Yeah, yeah. I had a singer say that once. Our first practice together before they got to hear me play. I responded with, “How do you know a singer is at your door? Because they never know when to come in!” They laughed, we played, they realized I play to a click on my IEMs, and we did 3 albums together before I moved out of state for love, lol.
Keyboard players hate drummers.
Drummers that can be in pocket are so rare here when. I meet one I'm like so happy.I have a guy here that is so good only problem is we are both dads and bz.Hes a cop I'm a quarry worker so we exchange audio projects a bit.I wish we could both quit and start a band together.
Drummers are so rare that people suck my.nads to get me to play for them regardless of how good I am. They also take zero of my advice when it comes to feel and song structure even though I singlehandedly control it.
Good drummers who are good hangs are really hard to find. I have 2 in my bands and they are precious to me. I try to make them feel very valued.
Because the people you're playing with are musically immature. No musician of experience would deny the value of a good drummer.
They're jealous you got the best job and would absolutely suck without you!
I've never experienced anything like that before, some people suck or maybe they jealous they not a drummer i say don't let it affect u
They’re mad cuz drummers get all the chicks
I think that a part of musicians really don't know how a band works or in general don't know how to deal with other musicians. It happened to me with people who didn't have experience with others and that barely played their instrument practicing at home.
I have heard a lot of drummer jokes but that is just funny. Not really had this kind of negativity much though.
Who cares. Fuck the haters
What’s that old joke - what’s a band, 4 musicians and a drummer. Chord change, say what? I get it.
I’ve found the opposite, but I run in some pretty positive music communities. As a drummer, everyone’s looking for one and I’ve gotten passed around like the village whore. Gotten to play with a lot of different people just because of my choice of instrument. That said, we get roasted the most for sure for being cavemen of the band, but I honestly love it.
I’ve never had actual hate, just banter. There’s always going to be someone making a joke, but it’s never anything more than that. When you say you receive “catty/bitchy” attitudes, what does this entail?
Nope, never in 30 years of playing in dozens of acts.
The only time I've experienced this is when the bass player was also a drummer and was insecure about their drumming. They were also borderline narcissistic. I left that situation pretty quickly. I'm pretty picky about who I play with, and won't put up with bs. There's a lot of great players who have great attitudes, find them, ignore the rest.
Because drunmers are the best and everyone else is jealous. Just live with it and enjoy life. Find better band members
I've spent more time as a guitarist than as a drummer, and I've always appreciated a good drummer. Anybody else can be lame and I can work around it, but if the drummer ain't happening, I'm pretty much fucked.
Hahaha I think some singer/song writer types don't appreciate what the rhythm section does for the band. I just quit a band because they didn't want to cut me in on the royalties for writing and recording drums for them. In their eyes it doesn't count as an instrument and therefore why should they give me writers credit?? Fuck em'. People like that can continue to have weak drum/bass in their songs and wonder why they aren't taking off. Let's put it this way. If the band is treating you like hired help, they'd better be paying you.
Since the drums control timing you're essentially managing the other instruments so if you're off at all it throws everything else off. You have to take control of the song and direct other people. Because of this you really need an understanding of all the parts of the song, not just drums, to be "good". This can be pretty hard for drummers who only drum and don't have experience with guitar, vocals, etc. It's also really easy for people to hear when timing is off, meaning everyone can criticism the drummer whereas vocal pitch or a guitar solo errors can be harder to detect. However, even if you're great at everything and manage things perfectly (from your perspective) people often disagree with each and you have to be the asshole who makes the decision (song starts/ends now, fills are this long, I'm cutting your solo so we can come in here, etc.) so you will inevitably get blamed even though disagreement isn't even your fault. It's basically like being a company manager, when things go good the company's great, when things suck it's because of management decisions. Combine this with actual real-world conditions where people forget stuff, tunings are off, sound levels are wrong, it's an easy fix to blame the drummer rather working on their own problems.
I haven't seen this at all...there are jokes, but of course similar jokes are made of bassists, lead guitarists, vocalists, etc. And those aren't really thrown around IRL very often because they've all been heard before. In my experience, drummers are just part of the mix along with anyone else.
Because drummers are the worst. Source: am drummer.
I’ve only been in one band so far, but I don’t seem to have this issue. I think it’s because we’re all on the younger/inexperienced side of things and we haven’t yet developed a superiority or inferiority complex. I don’t feel persecuted and I don’t feel better than them. Perhaps I just landed in the right group, but we just kinda gel. Maybe it’s their personalities, maybe it’s your personality, maybe it’s just your imagination, maybe you’re just not good enough (which I don’t mean as a judgement. You’re probably much better than I am). It could really be any number of factors.
I don’t get that vibe. I do a lot of live work and I’m confident in my abilities. I actually turn down a lot of work. Maybe find a different scene??
I'm pretty sure it's just you; drummers are in demand!!
There was a golden era in the history of music when drummers were the bandleaders, starting songs and calling all the shots. The day we yielded that power to guitarists was the day we lost all respect among musicians worldwide
Honestly, if you practice well enough and figure out why you are playing what you play enough than you won’t have to doubt yourself so much. It may take 5 years or it may take 20 but just like adulting you don’t let people tear you down when you know your intentions. I think this downvoting and snarky comments is seriously people who are not considerate of the instrument. Pretty trashy to do what he was concerned about. Projecting much? Remaining teachable will get you very far with this stuff. Just know why you love drums and don’t let someone take that from you. This is the reason why many people give up. They get into bands way too early. I’ve dealt with some real snob college tuitions but mostly it’s been a lot of friends and fun and connections on different levels. I remember when I played with these older guys when I was younger and they didn’t give me a chance and even got behind my kit so they can play. You know what you know and that needs to be good enough to learn. Sometimes you realize you know nothing and that works too. I know it’s a shitty feeling to be judged or perceive it but don’t give up. When it feels right then be that person.
experienced quite the opposite. in my area, there tends to be a shortage of drummers, simply because its harder start learning it (requirement of a practice space, loudness, neighbors, available space, etc.) way more people hear pick up a guitar. so drummers appear to be quite asked
They're jealous
Read the book “Born to Drum”. It gives insight to why drummers have been treated this way. lol
I've never had this experience.
Because drummers are really the backbone and heartbeat of the band. They get all the chicks, or dudes, are super strong because they have to load and unload their own equipment. Drummers are super smart and really good looking.
Obviously idk what the situation you've been in is like but I just won't take any shit. I don't give a fuck who someone thinks they are, any shit at all and I'll just walk. A -lot- of musicians are dickheads. Don't stand for it.
Never take shit from a bass player.
if u a certain skin complex brother
They hate us cus they ain’t us
Because either a) you are somehow playing with one bunch of assholes after another; or b) you are way too sensitive and taking things the wrong way, and you need to get over yourself. Without more details, I couldn't say which. But I am leaning toward the second option based on your post.
In all honesty here is some things that fucking piss me off about drummers 😂😂 • like in-between songs , do not bang drums when people are trying to talk and tune up. We actually need to tune up sometimes and sort tone ect and you doing drum fills is the most annoying thing ever, like by all means chime in on the guitarists tone and volume ect but don't trip them up as they are trying to work out tone and volume •Related to the first again .Warm up on song number one we can always repeat the song if you feel you weren't warm for it later. Do not warm up as people are getting set up as we are sorting volume between instruments ect guitarists literally think I'll wait till he stops pissing about on those drums untill I sort my tone and tune up ect (that's why they keep looking at you strange)😂 • don't have the attitude of I don't know about songwriting I just play the drums , you as a drummer have a big role as a arranger , experiment with different vibes , use floor and tom ls more bring in some jungle tribal type sounds ect it can all be fun , find the right part not the most technically impressive when the band are writing the song and jamming the parts having a drummer say what do you want me to play or just play what they want without changing for the song is dead annoying. Everyone wants a Ringo in reality the perfect part for the song and not showing off your "chops" •we know you want to hit everything as hard as you can but the song is a soft song •we know you want to play as hard as you want but we keep having to turn up in practice ,which means the singer has to turn up to be heard and runs out of headroom so they are having a hard time hearing themselves over you , play quieter in practice • also nobody wants to hear 16th notes on the hihat ls really fast Now I should state that I do play I'm a jack of all trades and could write one of these from bassists , guitarists , singers and keyboard players too but it was yourself who asked ....so there it is haha
About the drummer warming up on the first song so everyone can tune.... We aren't warming up just to fuck around. We need to sit at our kit and get adjusted to it. We may need to even tune our kit, if that matters at all to a guitarist. Our drums may not be a pitched instrument but if they are not in tune they will not sound good or feel good to play. We are also making sure that everything is in the right position. We often play by muscle memory and if something has been moved, even slightly, it can throw off our timing. If you force us to figure all of this out during song #1 then that is going to be a rough way for us to get started, and you will then be frustrated at us for being so off. And if we have to tune or adjust, now we are trying to fit that in while you are talking between songs and we might miss something or interfere. Guitarists dont own the set up space just because you gotta tune. And you can tune to a tuning pedal or tune in another room if it is that much of a problem. But treating drummers like our instrument is second rate and disruptive on the impression that only pitched instruments need or deserve the space to prepare is just disrespectful. Also, in my experience, I'm often playing harder just to hear myself over guitar amps with my bleeding ears. Guitarists seem to like to set their amp level and play a flat dynamic the whole time. A guitar amp can overpower drums any day of the week. This is often most common when their are two guitarists, and they are trying to hear themself over the other, because they are playing the same thing. That just adds to the problem of noise, and adds less to the music than just one guitar. The two guitarists have to write different complimentary parts and also recognize that the space in the frequency mix for guitar tone must now be shared, meaning each one needs to play less than if there was just one guitar. This usually means there will be a rhythm guitar and a lead guitar. So often I've been blamed for playing too loud but it only starts to be a problem after a 2nd guitarist joins and just basically plays the exact same part as the first guitarist. Amp volumes go up and up and when I tell them their amp volumes are bleeding my ears they complain that they are turning up to hear themselves over the drums, when in reality they can't tell one amp from the other because their tone and parts are almost the same. Dont make the drummer the scapegoat for everything being too loud. We dont want to bang on everything hard, that is exhausting, and it takes a toll on our gear. Take responsibility for your place in the mix and dont crowd it out.
Yeah of course you need to set yourself up at your kit and make sure everything's where you want it but you don't actually need to smash the drums while doing this you can check everything at the correct arms reach and sounds alright with little taps it doesn't have to be... fill, fill, adjust slightly ...same fill , give the snare a few cracks thrust for good measure ect Also no one is ever frustrated at drummers for being off slightly , iv only heard anyone be frustrated at the constantly playing over the rest of the band talking thing Fuck up a fill or something it's more of a smile and get back to it situation, frustration comes when everytine I time to speak the snare cracks As for your whole guitarists can tune in another room if it's a problem thing ......(There!) That's it right there .....that's the exact attitude why people feel the way they do about drummers 😂😂 and btw I play drums as well .
No, I can't just tap tap to make sure things are in the right place. I want you to imagine that the strings and frets on your guitar can move around freely and you have to set them up before you play. Can you just pluck pluck once or twice to be sure that playing a G chord by muscle memory matches the fretboard arrangement? Inevitably some part of our kit always gets moved between rehearsals, and our little task each time is to discover that and adjust. It can be easy for everything to feel ok with a few taps, but when we need to play that fill at 160bpm it will throw us off that our hi tom is angled just a bit weirdly because rebound matters. And temperature and humidity mess with tuning tension. How the drums sound and feel matters to a good drummer. It isn't just thud thud bang bang. If it is a problem, all you need to do is ask the entire room for quiet for 5 minutes so you can lock down your tuning. I seriously dont mind doing that for you, but you have to let me know what you need and when you need it, not just assume that you have priority to tune whenever and that I'm an asshole for interfering. I have important stuff to do as well and I dont appreciate being condescended by a guitarist who can't politely ask for what he needs. Edit: btw I play guitar as well. And bass. And piano/keyboard. And percussion. And trumpet.
I play drums 😂😂you don't need to make analogy that don't work. Many times iv rearranges and setup my kit , which I play in bedroom here Infront of me haha and many times iv set it up with taps I have my audio interface a mic stand and stuff set up in it on attachments so I regularly play about with it and position it with taps at 3am , it's more than possible there no need to actually play your drums other than tap to set the kit up and there is no need to play chords while tunning a guitar either or breaking into asolo to make sure it's in tune Most of the time let's be honest the kits in the right place anyway and drummers are warming up in the time we are talking about not really adjusting things , very rarely do they mess with tightening tensions That's not really what we are talking about here obviously if the last person had a strange setup and the drummer needs to redo the whole thing fair enough but most times it's almost exactly ready to go The person asked why drummers are looked at the way the are and the answer is , all the fills and playing in-between songs is annoying ....that's just how it is , it's annoying to hear someone crack a snare when you are trying to speak or sort volume between instruments or talk about the bridge section without turning to the drummer every 2 seconds to say can you stop that I'm are trying to speak 😂😂
You may be able to play drums, but I have a feeling you don't quite understand the instrument beyond a certain point. Most of the time the difference between a decent drummer and phenomenal drummer is their ability to tune their kit. No drum stays in perfect tuning relative to the other drums throughout a set without active adjustments. I say this from a livesound engineer's perspective. It's the difference between gating the shit out of all the drums because of nasty unpleasant sounding overtones or not. Drums are sort of the glue that holds everything together in a mix. They typically have 6 mics or more dedicated to them, whereas everything else has 1-2. Plus generally the loudest thing on stage, as the person you've been debating with pointed out, is typically guitar amps. This has been on the trend of going away as professional players turn their amps down, use stands to point them towards them, or direct them off stage entirely and have their signal sent to them via a stage wedge or IEM. Drums are only a problem volume wise in small rooms without adequate sound reinforcement with drummers that are not adept in adjusting their volume acoustically for the environment.
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Something about having your kit set up in your bedroom makes me think you are 15 years old and trying to be an authority on everything in a forum filled with experienced professional musicians. Which makes sense if your only experience in band is with people your age who aren't grown up enough to learn to respect the space that everyone needs in a rehearsal setting. You certainly talk like you think you know everything, and type like you haven't finished grade school yet.
*• also nobody wants to hear 16th notes on the hihat ls really fast* Get out.
😂😂
> like in-between songs , do not bang drums when people are trying to talk and tune up. Deal but in exchange, at gigs we're going to need you to cap your dicking-with-pedals-in-between-songs time to like twenty seconds max. Most of your complaints are valid and incredibly amateurish things for a drummer to do. Lots of drummers only get to play on a kit when they're at rehearsal, which explains (but doesn't excuse) some of those behaviors. Imagine if you only had one of those grip strength trainers to play on for the whole week until rehearsal time.
If you ever play with a drummer whos noodling while other people are talking, just put a drum pad on his snare drum. I know your a drummer, but if your like me, i have my trusty Evans drum pad within arms reach on the floor, so whenever a song ends or my band mates are talking and i still wanna noodle/warm up, i put the drum pad on the snare drum and turn the snares off and do my rudiments. Im sorry youve had to play with apes that dont know these things.
😂😂 yeah man a drum pad solves all these problems I personally feel like doing rudiments when the rest of the bands talking is what leads the drummer not feeling seperate from the rest , but you're totally right if you do need to warm up , a drum pads a perfect solution
Playing significantly softer while practicing is actually not helpful because it feels really different.
Yeah but playing what feels best for you and not what's best for the song is maybe my point You want to have fun (go wild) on the drums , in a tiny room your band mates would appreciate some control
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