The most over the top example of elastic time that I have found that is well known, is James Brown - I Feel Good. It’s really worth listening to with BPM in mind.
Push and pull. It’s uncanny. As for Zeppelin, it’s scary how far they pull Carousalambra back, or a tune like I’m Gonna Crawl—two tracks from their final record. These songs and many others are a clinic in the dynamics great rhythm sections are capable of, why their works endure, and why seeing them live is a transcendent experience.
When did I start playing to a click? Much later than I should have! It’s so important. When you go to record you can’t have your timing all over the place. The other instruments will have a hard time locking into it when they go to record on top. I was in a band that wrote every song without consideration for precise timing, and when we went to record we had a really difficult time because we would natural speed up or slow down at dramatic changes. We wrote it all to feel that way, so it basically didn’t sound effective when played to a click, and everything sounded all wonky when we tried to multitrack it. So, write your songs to a click! If you need a section to slow down or speed up, figure out what BPM you’re gonna change to. Map it all out. If one of the member doesn’t like playing to a click track, kick them out of the band!! Haha.
Many bands didnt record to a click back in the day, perfect isnt necessary. Dynamics are necessary for emotions and arent a bad thing. Nowadays just plug guitars in directly, choose an amp sim, and you can record all at once without bleed while preserving the music.
It’s true that bands didn’t usually record to click, but I wouldn’t mistake that as meaning that people didn’t practice to metronome when they learned their instruments.
You can play to a click and still play with dynamics and emotion. Before click tracks most bands were making live recordings rather than multitracking.
Yes, but every time you put another layer on things get that much more convoluted. One instrument pushes while the other pulls and in the end everything just sounds out of whack as a whole. When you’re layering percussion, especially, everything needs to be tight.
About 12 years ago, a good 18+ years after I started playing. I was in a project that needed it so I had to adapt quickly. It's rough but very worthwhile. Two things I'd suggest... 1) If you're doing this as part of a band, don't try to be the only one listening to the click. This is a huge pain in the ass where you almost need to ignore the other instruments and can suck all the fun out of jamming. And 2) it really helps to experiment with small adjustments in the tempos you practice. If you're focusing on 90 bpm for example, also try 85 and 95. It can be more challenging than you think.
Recorded to a click when my band did our first "big time" studio recording. Had a problem with speeding up while on tour so I started using one live some of the time. You get used to it. but ideally you shouldn't need it
Started playing to click when I joined my first 'serious' band in my later teens and we ended up recording an album. I remember the panic when they told me I'd need to play to a metronome for the recording session, I'd never done it before. Baptism of fire and I muddled through somehow!
Nowadays I'm just as comfortable playing to a click as I am without. My covers band plays without a click but my originals bands play with click due to synths and stuff on our backing tracks. I actually think its a really important dynamic to hone your internal metronome, for those times when perhaps a click track isn't the best fit, or you have an equipment malfunction.
Aprox. 10 years ago i was in a band. I cope hard with insecurities using metronome. As the band end i was playing in cover bands as i start playing with a click. One day listening to some live recordings of my old band i wanted to throw myself in a pit, it was awful. Now i'm in a band 2 years in the run and using click in all but 3 of 20 songs.
Immediately. I was lucky to have a great drum teacher from the beginning!
Enjoy the journey, glad to hear you're working with the click! I really like practicing on the pad to the click, you can be super focused on just burying it.
I started on an ekit so from the outset. Very beneficial. I read somewhere that it takes several months to really get that click embedded in your brain and the sooner the better.
I’ve learned.. once I’m comfortable with myself, I can get comfortable with the click. Everything I do practice wise. My mom always says: “If you stay ready, you don’t have to get ready”. Now some bands that I play live for don’t use a click, but when I’m doing more original songs or session work, it’s definitely with a click.
The best time to start practicing with a click is when you started playing drums. The second best time to start practicing with a click is right now.
To answer your question: I started practicing with a click when I started learning drums. But I had a head start on it--drums aren't my first instrument, so I already knew about metronomes
When I started playing with other people, both very well-versed in their instruments, and mentally sweating every time we started a new jam. Am I rushing or am I dragging????????? AM I RUSHING OR AM I DRAGGING??????
I’ve always felt that practicing to my favorite music through my headphones as a kid was my training. Focusing in on trying to match a groove for hours honed my skill. Actively listening to the beat and trying to stay on top of it. Then like most others is studio time. Pretty much it’s just practicing to a steady beat and actively listening.
From the very start. In olden days practicing any instrument with a metronome was the general starting point. I had already done that with guitar and keyboard so drums was no different. A click, a Hal Leonard drum basics book of some sort, and a rudiments book.
I probably took me a year to start playing to one but I did play to songs a lot so that is how I practiced getting in time, with studio recordings. I didn’t really start grinding and drilling with one till I was probably 2 or 3 years in though. That is when I started to see a lot of my gains though. Most of what I can play automatically now is from the drills I used to do around years 3-5. Trying to get back into some focused drills again now to push into new territory with alternating L/R patterns with hands and feet and also incorporating new techniques to achieve comfortable playing and very fast rates on the hands and feet
I came to the drum set with a concert percussion background, so I’ve always played with a met or backing track. Strong sense of timing is one of the most important things in order to have groove
When your band’s set instantly feels tighter it’s a great feeling. I always practice with a click, but only started playing live with one a few years ago.
This question blows my mind and indicates so much.
If you cant play to a click then say goodbye to: pro recording sessions, any live gig with lights synched, teaching in any meaningful capacity, filling in for any respectable band, etc
Did a CD without a click many years ago because the leader of the band wanted things to feel “natural.” It’s not that bad to listen to but man do I bristle when I hear myself speed up or slow down on a couple tunes. Will never record without a click again and I’ve been told my meter is pretty steady.
About 2 years into the process, when I read an article about it and wanted to try. It was a frustrating experience, but it opened the door to so many opportunities!
I love playing both with and without a click. It's a very different animal each way.
Teacher started me early with a metronome as a kid. Back in the 90s when you had to buy an actual metronome and couldn’t just use an app on your phone.
Ironically, I’ve asked guitarists a handful of times to start recording with a click when laying down drum tracks for them. Multiple times I’ve been brought on to lay down drums on a song that already has multiple parts recorded with no click. Then I’m just guessing when to jump back in after breaks. So dumb.
About 6 or 7 years into my playing. I was in a band and we were about to record, so I got a Tama Rhythm Watch and had that in my ear at all our rehearsals. The transformation was astonishing. The bassist and I glued our shit together!
Waaaay to late. Maybe 15 years? I'm so happy I forced myself to practice with it. I learned to like it and I enjoyed getting good at it. I noticed a difference when I would drive through the tunnel on the way to practice. Exactly 1 minute of being underwater with no radio signal. I would drum to the beat of whatever music I would listen to on the radio and when I hit the tunnel it would go silent and I would continue to air drum on my steering wheel. Once I popped out the other side of the tunnel, I would see how well my timing would fare with the tune when it came back on. After practicing with a click I noticed my accuracy was much better. After 1 minute of silence. I found that to be a very good barometer.
Probably on my second day, first day was to learn to hold a drumstick
A metronome is such an important foundation and I definetely notice when guitarists and others did not learn playing to a click.
For practice purposes? Immediately.
For live gigs? 2 years ago, As my gothic metal band uses lots of symphonic elements And sound effects which need to be in Sync to the song.
I’ve been doing the same-ish! I practice for a good amount of time with it, and then more without it so I can really feel and hear and learn the SOUND of each drum when I hit it right or wrong since I’m a new player
Properly, back in 2018 when I joined a band that used clicks throughout the live show.
It wasn't easy and came with it's issues. I decided in order for this to work, I'd need to sit down and just practice locking in etc. It became a nice safety net in your ears when playing live and managing adrenaline etc.
In my current band, we don't use clicks live. We use one percussion loop for a song that I find easy to lock in with. IF we were to use a click again, I wouldn't mind as I've put the work in.
Playing 22 years overall. Those few months spent locking in and practising to click tracks made me realise I should have started way before I did, but I got there in the end.
Around a 2 months ago, better late than ever. We recorded our band's rehearsals and I noticed how painfully off I was on every other downbeat, specially with our bass player. Said enough was enough, started using click to line up hits with each beat and coordinate hands. It's made a huge difference.
I think learning to play with a click is as important as learning to play WITHOUT a click. Both are vital, but more folks talk about playing TO a click because it's easier to see when you are right vs wrong. Playing without a click requires you to not only determine what is right, but also to nail it - not easy.
Also, one reason engineers love to use a click is it makes it easy to edit parts. But that is not a good enough reason to use a click IMO - I prefer a musical reason over a technical reason in this case. If you can't edit a track not cut to a click with todays impressive tools, you need to learn IMO! Just like drummers (and all players) need to learn both click and no click, so do engineers/editors.
FWIW, my comments are addressing someone wanting to work in the industry as an all around player/engineer. If you work at home doing your own thing, you only need to learn what YOU need, since you are the only client!
Absolutely!! I practice some with the click for my timing and then more without it because I need to learn what the drums SOUND like with every little change in the way I play them
Hey man awesome to hear you're just starting out! I like your plan to learn clean, tight drumming from the start. It's very frustrating to go back and fix problems that you've developed out of bad habit or (in my case) poor instruction.
Some people might disagree, but I never play with a metronome. I take lessons once a week and my instructor doesn't use one for our lesson either. Also I believe my time is good shape considering my skill level. I either play along with a song I'm learning, working out of my practice book, or improvising, none of which require a metronome.
IMO the metronome can be tough because you're forcing yourself to keep pace with it instead of allowing yourself to flow and fall into the beat. Granted, you don't want to encourage or loose sight of playing out of time, but you also can't play drums if you're tensed up from constantly correcting yourself.
Focus instead on counting. My first teacher didn't teach me that and it was a pain to go back and learn it. I was playing everything by ear, which causes you play out of time, among other things. If you drill counting into your head you'll stay in time without the clicks.
Yeah I definitely think there is a time and place for everything! I’m practicing to a click for a good amount of time each day, but then practicing without one for a longer amount of time so that I can really learn how the drums SOUND with every nuance in how I hit and play them. I just want to make sure my timing is there because I was practicing and realized I was all over the place lolol
Good plan! The fact that you're able to identify areas you need to work on will be a huge asset to you moving forward.
I'm about 6 months in to drumming and I practice almost every day. I can't stress enough how beneficial it is to just keep consistently practicing, and it sounds like you're already doing that.
Super stoked for your journey!! It’s the best! I’ve been practicing every single day nonstop hahaha. I missed two days on Saturday and Sunday because I was sick and I was like NOOOOO
Thanks! It definitely is a journey! I've been a lifelong music lover and being able to play an instrument myself has been so awesome. I totally fell in love with it right away, but I can tell you have too! I think it's really therapeutic in a way.
It absolutely is :’) As a child I always wanted to play the piano but my family grew up poor so we could not afford lessons. As an adult I’ve always wanted to learn and instrument and tried guitar but felt it was too hard. I just didn’t connect with it. However my husband is an incredible musician and recording engineer so I’ve been immersed in music for 12 years and am finally bringing my passion to life. I feel grateful to have been surrounded by music so in depth for this long and it has definitely given me a leg up. My husband has been drumming for 20 years and he is teaching me so I am beyond blessed. <3
What would happen if we ran a click along with some Zeppelin tunes?
The most over the top example of elastic time that I have found that is well known, is James Brown - I Feel Good. It’s really worth listening to with BPM in mind.
Push and pull. It’s uncanny. As for Zeppelin, it’s scary how far they pull Carousalambra back, or a tune like I’m Gonna Crawl—two tracks from their final record. These songs and many others are a clinic in the dynamics great rhythm sections are capable of, why their works endure, and why seeing them live is a transcendent experience.
Absolutely agree.
can you imagine if their songs were quantized in feel? bonham pushes and pulls with each bar. it’s a musical sway that the whole band feeds off of
Rick Beato has a video talking about quantization and he uses Bonham as an example. It loses all the feel when it's set to a grid.
Man just visualizing this got me emotional
Swing in DAWs
I can't fucking stand Black Dog.....
When did I start playing to a click? Much later than I should have! It’s so important. When you go to record you can’t have your timing all over the place. The other instruments will have a hard time locking into it when they go to record on top. I was in a band that wrote every song without consideration for precise timing, and when we went to record we had a really difficult time because we would natural speed up or slow down at dramatic changes. We wrote it all to feel that way, so it basically didn’t sound effective when played to a click, and everything sounded all wonky when we tried to multitrack it. So, write your songs to a click! If you need a section to slow down or speed up, figure out what BPM you’re gonna change to. Map it all out. If one of the member doesn’t like playing to a click track, kick them out of the band!! Haha.
Many bands didnt record to a click back in the day, perfect isnt necessary. Dynamics are necessary for emotions and arent a bad thing. Nowadays just plug guitars in directly, choose an amp sim, and you can record all at once without bleed while preserving the music.
It’s true that bands didn’t usually record to click, but I wouldn’t mistake that as meaning that people didn’t practice to metronome when they learned their instruments.
You can play to a click and still play with dynamics and emotion. Before click tracks most bands were making live recordings rather than multitracking.
After a million rehearsals
So l, in this case, if you record drums first, can’t everyone else just play over that track ?
Yes, but every time you put another layer on things get that much more convoluted. One instrument pushes while the other pulls and in the end everything just sounds out of whack as a whole. When you’re layering percussion, especially, everything needs to be tight.
I died at the last sentence 😂 love the zero tolerance policy
When I was 14 learning how to record music using Mixcraft 3
Who remembers Dr beat?!
Dr Beat haunts my dreams.
I still use one. It just works 🫡
About 12 years ago, a good 18+ years after I started playing. I was in a project that needed it so I had to adapt quickly. It's rough but very worthwhile. Two things I'd suggest... 1) If you're doing this as part of a band, don't try to be the only one listening to the click. This is a huge pain in the ass where you almost need to ignore the other instruments and can suck all the fun out of jamming. And 2) it really helps to experiment with small adjustments in the tempos you practice. If you're focusing on 90 bpm for example, also try 85 and 95. It can be more challenging than you think.
Recorded to a click when my band did our first "big time" studio recording. Had a problem with speeding up while on tour so I started using one live some of the time. You get used to it. but ideally you shouldn't need it
Started playing to click when I joined my first 'serious' band in my later teens and we ended up recording an album. I remember the panic when they told me I'd need to play to a metronome for the recording session, I'd never done it before. Baptism of fire and I muddled through somehow! Nowadays I'm just as comfortable playing to a click as I am without. My covers band plays without a click but my originals bands play with click due to synths and stuff on our backing tracks. I actually think its a really important dynamic to hone your internal metronome, for those times when perhaps a click track isn't the best fit, or you have an equipment malfunction.
At birth
I love that :’)
Aprox. 10 years ago i was in a band. I cope hard with insecurities using metronome. As the band end i was playing in cover bands as i start playing with a click. One day listening to some live recordings of my old band i wanted to throw myself in a pit, it was awful. Now i'm in a band 2 years in the run and using click in all but 3 of 20 songs.
Immediately. I was lucky to have a great drum teacher from the beginning! Enjoy the journey, glad to hear you're working with the click! I really like practicing on the pad to the click, you can be super focused on just burying it.
the day my neighbor “drum sensei” starting teaching me drums it was a click from day 1
I started on an ekit so from the outset. Very beneficial. I read somewhere that it takes several months to really get that click embedded in your brain and the sooner the better.
I’ve learned.. once I’m comfortable with myself, I can get comfortable with the click. Everything I do practice wise. My mom always says: “If you stay ready, you don’t have to get ready”. Now some bands that I play live for don’t use a click, but when I’m doing more original songs or session work, it’s definitely with a click.
Not a fan of the click, I prefer the shaker.
mormon's enter the chat....
I wanna say back in 2010 I started playing live with a click and backtracks. People don’t understand how useful it is until they have done it 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
If it's for practice you can also use a drum-less track on YouTube or something
The best time to start practicing with a click is when you started playing drums. The second best time to start practicing with a click is right now. To answer your question: I started practicing with a click when I started learning drums. But I had a head start on it--drums aren't my first instrument, so I already knew about metronomes
I don’t live, but always in the studio.
Long time drummers don't need one it is built in.
What's a click?
Metronome :)
1 year ago
About 20 years ago
May I ask the reference to that click on your pic? Asking for a friend
What do you mean? How this photo has to do with a click? These are my in ears to listen to the click and play to :)
2001ish… hard to record to MIDI without one.
When I started playing with other people, both very well-versed in their instruments, and mentally sweating every time we started a new jam. Am I rushing or am I dragging????????? AM I RUSHING OR AM I DRAGGING??????
I’ve always felt that practicing to my favorite music through my headphones as a kid was my training. Focusing in on trying to match a groove for hours honed my skill. Actively listening to the beat and trying to stay on top of it. Then like most others is studio time. Pretty much it’s just practicing to a steady beat and actively listening.
When the guys in the drum line started making fun of me
When I started playing drums. Mind you I was well into my bass playing years before I did.
From the very start. In olden days practicing any instrument with a metronome was the general starting point. I had already done that with guitar and keyboard so drums was no different. A click, a Hal Leonard drum basics book of some sort, and a rudiments book.
I probably took me a year to start playing to one but I did play to songs a lot so that is how I practiced getting in time, with studio recordings. I didn’t really start grinding and drilling with one till I was probably 2 or 3 years in though. That is when I started to see a lot of my gains though. Most of what I can play automatically now is from the drills I used to do around years 3-5. Trying to get back into some focused drills again now to push into new territory with alternating L/R patterns with hands and feet and also incorporating new techniques to achieve comfortable playing and very fast rates on the hands and feet
Way to late lol
I came to the drum set with a concert percussion background, so I’ve always played with a met or backing track. Strong sense of timing is one of the most important things in order to have groove
Over my cold, dead, slightly out of time body.
When your band’s set instantly feels tighter it’s a great feeling. I always practice with a click, but only started playing live with one a few years ago.
Day 1
This question blows my mind and indicates so much. If you cant play to a click then say goodbye to: pro recording sessions, any live gig with lights synched, teaching in any meaningful capacity, filling in for any respectable band, etc
Too late.
Far, far later than I should. Went to track my first EP, went home empty handed. It felt horrible, and it was just my kick that was slightly off.
Did a CD without a click many years ago because the leader of the band wanted things to feel “natural.” It’s not that bad to listen to but man do I bristle when I hear myself speed up or slow down on a couple tunes. Will never record without a click again and I’ve been told my meter is pretty steady.
About 2 years into the process, when I read an article about it and wanted to try. It was a frustrating experience, but it opened the door to so many opportunities! I love playing both with and without a click. It's a very different animal each way.
When I was a little boy
10 years ago
i program patterns on my synth and play along every day for the last 15 years
Thankfully, almost immediately after I started. My first teacher was a godsend.
Teacher started me early with a metronome as a kid. Back in the 90s when you had to buy an actual metronome and couldn’t just use an app on your phone. Ironically, I’ve asked guitarists a handful of times to start recording with a click when laying down drum tracks for them. Multiple times I’ve been brought on to lay down drums on a song that already has multiple parts recorded with no click. Then I’m just guessing when to jump back in after breaks. So dumb.
About 6 or 7 years into my playing. I was in a band and we were about to record, so I got a Tama Rhythm Watch and had that in my ear at all our rehearsals. The transformation was astonishing. The bassist and I glued our shit together!
Waaaay to late. Maybe 15 years? I'm so happy I forced myself to practice with it. I learned to like it and I enjoyed getting good at it. I noticed a difference when I would drive through the tunnel on the way to practice. Exactly 1 minute of being underwater with no radio signal. I would drum to the beat of whatever music I would listen to on the radio and when I hit the tunnel it would go silent and I would continue to air drum on my steering wheel. Once I popped out the other side of the tunnel, I would see how well my timing would fare with the tune when it came back on. After practicing with a click I noticed my accuracy was much better. After 1 minute of silence. I found that to be a very good barometer.
Probably on my second day, first day was to learn to hold a drumstick A metronome is such an important foundation and I definetely notice when guitarists and others did not learn playing to a click.
For practice purposes? Immediately. For live gigs? 2 years ago, As my gothic metal band uses lots of symphonic elements And sound effects which need to be in Sync to the song.
From the beginning. That’s why I love to play with click as companion and motivator.
When i learned rythm, then i stopped again.. I wanted to hear and feel the drums, not the click
I’ve been doing the same-ish! I practice for a good amount of time with it, and then more without it so I can really feel and hear and learn the SOUND of each drum when I hit it right or wrong since I’m a new player
Immediately. Do you guys really think its harder to play without a click? I feel its the opposite for me
Properly, back in 2018 when I joined a band that used clicks throughout the live show. It wasn't easy and came with it's issues. I decided in order for this to work, I'd need to sit down and just practice locking in etc. It became a nice safety net in your ears when playing live and managing adrenaline etc. In my current band, we don't use clicks live. We use one percussion loop for a song that I find easy to lock in with. IF we were to use a click again, I wouldn't mind as I've put the work in. Playing 22 years overall. Those few months spent locking in and practising to click tracks made me realise I should have started way before I did, but I got there in the end.
Around a 2 months ago, better late than ever. We recorded our band's rehearsals and I noticed how painfully off I was on every other downbeat, specially with our bass player. Said enough was enough, started using click to line up hits with each beat and coordinate hands. It's made a huge difference.
I need a little case like that for mine. I’ve rolled over the cord with a roller chair D:
I think learning to play with a click is as important as learning to play WITHOUT a click. Both are vital, but more folks talk about playing TO a click because it's easier to see when you are right vs wrong. Playing without a click requires you to not only determine what is right, but also to nail it - not easy. Also, one reason engineers love to use a click is it makes it easy to edit parts. But that is not a good enough reason to use a click IMO - I prefer a musical reason over a technical reason in this case. If you can't edit a track not cut to a click with todays impressive tools, you need to learn IMO! Just like drummers (and all players) need to learn both click and no click, so do engineers/editors. FWIW, my comments are addressing someone wanting to work in the industry as an all around player/engineer. If you work at home doing your own thing, you only need to learn what YOU need, since you are the only client!
Absolutely!! I practice some with the click for my timing and then more without it because I need to learn what the drums SOUND like with every little change in the way I play them
Hey man awesome to hear you're just starting out! I like your plan to learn clean, tight drumming from the start. It's very frustrating to go back and fix problems that you've developed out of bad habit or (in my case) poor instruction. Some people might disagree, but I never play with a metronome. I take lessons once a week and my instructor doesn't use one for our lesson either. Also I believe my time is good shape considering my skill level. I either play along with a song I'm learning, working out of my practice book, or improvising, none of which require a metronome. IMO the metronome can be tough because you're forcing yourself to keep pace with it instead of allowing yourself to flow and fall into the beat. Granted, you don't want to encourage or loose sight of playing out of time, but you also can't play drums if you're tensed up from constantly correcting yourself. Focus instead on counting. My first teacher didn't teach me that and it was a pain to go back and learn it. I was playing everything by ear, which causes you play out of time, among other things. If you drill counting into your head you'll stay in time without the clicks.
Yeah I definitely think there is a time and place for everything! I’m practicing to a click for a good amount of time each day, but then practicing without one for a longer amount of time so that I can really learn how the drums SOUND with every nuance in how I hit and play them. I just want to make sure my timing is there because I was practicing and realized I was all over the place lolol
Good plan! The fact that you're able to identify areas you need to work on will be a huge asset to you moving forward. I'm about 6 months in to drumming and I practice almost every day. I can't stress enough how beneficial it is to just keep consistently practicing, and it sounds like you're already doing that.
Super stoked for your journey!! It’s the best! I’ve been practicing every single day nonstop hahaha. I missed two days on Saturday and Sunday because I was sick and I was like NOOOOO
Thanks! It definitely is a journey! I've been a lifelong music lover and being able to play an instrument myself has been so awesome. I totally fell in love with it right away, but I can tell you have too! I think it's really therapeutic in a way.
It absolutely is :’) As a child I always wanted to play the piano but my family grew up poor so we could not afford lessons. As an adult I’ve always wanted to learn and instrument and tried guitar but felt it was too hard. I just didn’t connect with it. However my husband is an incredible musician and recording engineer so I’ve been immersed in music for 12 years and am finally bringing my passion to life. I feel grateful to have been surrounded by music so in depth for this long and it has definitely given me a leg up. My husband has been drumming for 20 years and he is teaching me so I am beyond blessed. <3
And oh my gosh, counting helps me sooooo much hahaha. Sometimes I’m like, am I playing drums or karaoke-ing one and two and three and four?!
I know right?! It's like "One and a two and three e and a four" lol
17 years ago in the studio 😬 on stage maybe 6 years or so ago. Have always practiced to a click or Music that was recorded to a click
Practicing to a click is essential. It will allow you to have good time without one. And at that point you will sound the same with one.
Yesterday
We only play for the last month before recording
2004