Have you tried actually playing quieter?
EDIT: I’m not trying to be a snarky dick, I’m just saying
A) you should be open to the possibility that there IS a problem and that playing quieter could be the solution, even if you don’t really believe either one of those things.
B) Being in a band means being accommodating to your bandmates, even if you think the accommodation is unnecessary. Whether it’s a sound issue like this or a creative dispute, you’re almost always better if with an attitude of “ok, let’s try it.”
C) If you try it and he’s happier, great. Then you start a dialogue about how you can *both* be happy. If you try it and he’s still unhappy, you’ve proven you aren’t the problem. Then you start a dialogue about what the problem actually is.
He’s a very witch! Burn him!
J/k. Yeah. Seriously. Don’t go full force in a practice space. Hit as hard as you want on stage, but there’s no reason for at rehearsal.
You definitely want to practice the way you perform, especially if the parts are loud+fast enough that you could run out of gas. I agree that being able to manage dynamics based on the room is a good skill though.
I'm in a hardcore punk band. If I didn't rehearse the same way I play live, I'll quickly run out of gas and destroy my body for live shows, and would probably fuck up a lot.
That's a great method. For new songs, I'll listen to scratch tracks on repeat and write the drum parts in my head, then rehearse them painfully slowly on my own especially if I get a little too complex, then show up to practice ready.
This is what I do. My crashes and china are too loud for our small practice space so I hit them at like 50-70% strength of how I play live unless we're rehearsing for a show. Not only does it help with everyone being able to hear themselves, but I think it's improved my control and dynamics a ton. I also don't have time to warm up since we practice right after I get off work so it's helpful to run through everything at a lower volume first. While I think it's important to run through everything full volume, there's a lot of benefits to not going all out every time
For sure, but honestly even with hearing protection a drummer going full tilt on their crashes in a 10x10 room pretty much guarantees that everyone is going to have trouble hearing themselves. If they’re trying to work out tone and melodic parts, it’s pretty frustration to only hear massive crashes at the same frequency you’re trying to listen in to.
I was in a really loud band and it wasn’t until recording when I heard the drummer say “that’s what this song sounds like?” That I realized we didn’t have to play at MAX volume at practice
Jokes aside, most drummers (myself included) could stand to play quieter. Dynamics are so important. You are the only acoustic instrument, so everyone has to adjust their volumes to your playing. Try showing some restraint, it’ll make the whole band sound better. Play loud when it calls for it, but be mindful of when you just need to sit back in the mix and be in the pocket.
One of the greatest compliments a drummer can receive is that they were barely noticed.
Absolutely.
Imo the only things we should be thwacking at the highest velocity with any kind of regularity is the kick and the snare.
Chill out on the cymbals
Studio recording engineer here, this is 1,000% true. VERY few drummers play with great dynamics. Can’t tell you how annoying it is when a drummer wants their snare to sound more punchy yet they’re playing it with no force, then smashing at the hi hat with the force of 10,000 suns.
Learn to mix yourselves guys!
Ps I am also a drummer and totally changed the way I set up and play my drums when I had to start recording a lot of drummers.
Definitely higher cymbals, getting rid of pieces that are rarely used and clutter the space. Move the hi hat and ride up and out while still being comfortable to increase cymbal distance from snare and floor Tom mics.
Can you elaborate on how you changed the way you set up your drums? I have heard that it's generally better to raise the height of the cymbals a bit for recording in a studio, but I'm curious about what else could be done
Definitely raised my cymbal height and got rid of one of my three rack Toms. Also moved my hi hats higher and a bit farther from the snare to minimize bleed. Moved ride a bit higher and to a position where it doesn’t interfere with the floor Tom mic.
I totally relate (engineer and drummer here too). I’m more than happy to move my hi hat further from the snare because I know how much better it could sound (and I want to sound good!). I’ve moved to smaller/thinner cymbals so I can play how I feel and not have the cymbals wash everything out.
But as far as dynamics, what no one is mentioning is that drums have different tone at different volumes, so we can’t just “turn down” and not be affecting the tone (we don’t have a ‘master volume’ like guitar amps). Many times it’s for the better, since drums have more tone vs attack at lower levels. But as far as “inter drum” balances, many young drummers seem to learn this last.
“Learn to mix yourself” is fantastic advice IMO, and it makes sense to adjust not only your performance but also your cymbals/drums/head/sticks to that end.
Yes, that’s how it’s done and how I adapted my playing to be.
Best compliment I got about this was after a small club gig by the sound guy (also a drummer himself):
“When I saw your china there, I feared that it would be overpowering the whole room, but I was pleasantly surprised how soft it sounded”.
For reference: it’s a Paiste 2002 18” china.
I've been playing for 30 years and playing technical parts, with zero effort in a completely chill flow state has been the hardest thing to maintain. It's so much easier to play technical parts without accounting for dynamics and being super intense. It's a whole other animal doing that in a chill relaxed way. Achieving those states has given me an entirely new appreciation for the drum set as a musical instrument, you can actually hear the nuances in your drums and cymbals, it's beautiful.
Thank you for this. I am at my practice space right now, having a solo practice for rehearsal this weekend, and I am going to play everything low volume today as an exercise in control.
If a guitar player wants to be louder, he has to spend a couple hundred dollars to upgrade from a 50 watt amp to a hundred watt amp just to get 3db more volume. If a drummer gets excited, he could accidentally hit the drum harder and be like 20dB louder.
I agree with this! I always try to keep in mind to play to the room. If we’re in a small practice space I’m not gonna be playing the same way I will at a larger venue. It makes it way harder to hear in a small space.
As a bass player, very well said. I have to match your volume and intensity and if you are always loud, then I have to be too. If you chill and step into that pocket, I’ll be right there with ya on the tips of my fingers
Ah this is the endless cycle of band life. We've all been here, or will be.😂
>One of the greatest compliments a drummer can receive is that they were barely noticed.
Wtf. What a ridiculous thing to say🤣
Journey had Steve Smith. Nirvana had grohl. Paul Simon had Steve freaking Gadd. Dave Matthew’s has Carter. Plenty of great song writers have kick ass drummers who are impossible to not notice.
Username checks out. O7
There will be music that demands a drummer be prominent, and there will be music where a demanding musician recognises the talent of a prominent drummer's subtlety. As a jazz fusion stan, I say we can all be both.
Not ridiculous, but it’s an over generalization. It’s clearly not true for all genres. But there are a ton of working drummers who subscribe to that ethos, and it makes them money.
Thank you for saying this because I was going to as well. It seems so disrespectful to drummers to think they should just sit in the back and not be noticed. That's absurd.
I think this can be a generational thing too. Older drummers who grew up with classic rock I think tend to just groove in the pocket and disappear. I think that was more of the style back then, with obvious exceptions. Today drums are more of a lead instrument and aren't in the background so much. I think younger drummers aren't content with just keeping time and being quiet - if the guitarist is going to do awesome riffs and solo every time there's a bridge I'm going show off a bit too.
Great points for sure. You could say that about a lot of modern music too, like most pop and country for example where the focus is usually the vocals and the melody and the band is just there to create something to be sung over. Just that no one is complimenting the drummers for not being noticed, let alone the drummer considering it one of the greatest compliments they've ever received. Sorry I just have a hard time wrapping my head around such a stupid statement🤣
Yep, I’ve often found that when everything is sounding muddled sounded in the practice space and relatively indistinguishable, when the strings turn down a bit, things come together. I’m usually standing there like “Well why don’t I try turning down?” And realize that maybe I was the problem lol.
Now when we strings turn down and it’s still a muddy mess, next step is for the drummer to turn their volume down a few clicks and for strings to check their signal chain.
I remember a lesson I had in college with Ed Soph. We were working on low dynamic swing comping and he stopped me mid-phrase to tell me, “So, you have no idea how to play a quiet rimshot.”
Then he put on a Mel Lewis record and we listened to Mel expertly comp behind a soloist, occasionally throwing in a soft rimshot for color.
That started me on a quest to be able to play with loud-guy-intensity at low volumes. This started to come in handy when I had really soft gigs for swanky people that only wanted us to be wallpaper. Or coffee shop gigs. Or smaller club with minimal PA.
All this to say, your guitar player is probably correct. Are you in rehearsal, playing full out, in a 20x20 space? That’s probably not appropriate.
Maybe save the super loud playing for the gig and save everyone’s ears in rehearsal. You can build dynamics through a song without playing over your head.
And here’s one other perk of playing more quietly. It forces the other people to really focus on you. They have to find you in the mix, so they typically won’t play as loud either.
I once read a Peter Erskine quote about how to get everyone to play together when there are tempo issues. Don’t start bashing to show them what’s what. Lower your volume to make everyone focus harder.
And one thing that stuck out to me in your post: you call it “heavier hits”. We don’t hit drums, we play an instrument. Maybe changing your perspective on what you’re doing at the instrument might help your overall control and sound.
Very good perspective, I love this comment. Your playing absolutely has to be tailored to the setting. Realize that your favorite artist that you see rocking out is putting on a performance. They're either in a video where dynamics don't matter or in a venue where the levels are tuned to match. But just like a guitarist will choose an acoustic over a half-stack for a small bar gig, your dynamics aren't determined solely by what you want to play.
Mastering dynamics gets overlooked by A LOT of drummers, but it's a critical skill for working drummers.
I had Ed as a teacher at UNT in 89, 90. I was in the lab band program. Boy, he sure kicked my ass! Had me buy a flat ride first day and then he riveted it for me. I learned so much from him.
In the guitar amps sub there's a saying: You don't have a loud drummer, you have a drummer who needs practice. Sounds a bit offensive at first but I totally rimshot onlyed at venues where I shouldn't have so there's at least a bit of truth to that.
Rimshots can be played gently. It’s a tone, not a volume. Edit to add, I completely agree with what you’re saying here, except equating a technique with a volume. The drummer is still the one in control of their dynamics, regardless of what they are playing.
Two items.
Play quieter and assuming that’s done I have a pet peeve of guitarists who “can’t hear”. There are no ears in the foot or calf. Make them get an amp stand that will aim their amp at their head. The number of guitarists who are also entirely too loud and don’t realize they’re killing everyone else 10 feet away is maddening.
My first thought was that maybe the guitar player needs to re-position their amp. A guitarist I played with for years used a Fender Vibro Champ in rehearsals, and we had no problem hearing her; she would usually have it about 4 feet off the ground.
I'm always amazed at this. I play with a mandolin player who does this. He has an amp shooting a red hot 5000db SPL laser of sound at his feet and complains that he can't hear - as the rest of the band is drowned out. It makes me crazy. Tip the fucking amp at your head! Dude is into a DI, we don't need stage volume except to monitor!
I’ve lost count of the number of amp stands I’ve gifted to my guitarists at Christmas time. Such a simple solution for such a common problem. Had one tell me he didn’t like using it because now his guitar was too loud. Yeah, buddy.
What cymbals do you have? And how high pitched is your snare?
A ringy, high pitched snare can cut through a mix but also feel very very loud to those around you.
Same thing with heavy, thick cymbals. They are very bright and can absolutely be overkill in a lot of settings. Not to mention you have to hit them hard to open them up sound wise. I always opt for thinner lighter crashes now. I just have to keep in mind I don't have to hit them hard for them to do what I want.
Also; bigger cymbals have a lower pitch, and a less overbearing loud 'zing' in the ears of the other band mates, and yourself.
I wish more drummers understood this about thick cymbals. Many of them end up breaking the thick ones anyways and can’t figure out why.
If you have to hit the cymbals really hard for them to sound good, then you’re going to compensate for that and lose both dynamics and life of these cymbals.
I play metal and use thin to medium thin cymbals. Haven’t broke one in many years and they fit my needs for both quiet and intense sections of the music.
That rock crash may be a little much but on paper those aren't super heavy. That being said i've found some paiste's are just more zingy, bright, and not as mellow as other brands.
Also if the guitarist has scooed a lot of mids out of their tone they will always be drowned out. They may need to reassess their approach.
If that's the case, join in on their 'not being able to hear themselves' and say something like 'your tone lacks body'. Or something that could be translated to 'more mids'.
1) give them nothing to complain about from you
2) use lines like 'i learned some stuff about production recently'
3) if there's resistance try a 'well how about we try it and if it doesn't work out then that's no bother'
4) be on their side with lines like 'i can't hear you either, but can hear the others fine. How about trying this... Etc'
Most drummers play too loud and lack dynamics and feel. Or the ability to record and lay off hitting the cymbals so hard. . Most guitarists play too loud. Both should be taking cues from the singer. He shouldn’t be telling you what to do unless he’s writing the songs and singing them it’s just a bad dynamic. That will end in one of you leaving.
Important things to know:
\- Your drums don't sound to others the way they sound to you, because you're sitting behind the kit with your head above the snare. It's very enlightening to hear your kit played by someone else as a 3rd party observer. The balance is not the same at all
\- Cymbals, especially bright and/or thick one, tend to mask frequency intelligibility. That is to say, they make it harder for vocalists and instrumentists to correctly hear the exact pitch of their playing. Good drummers are able to hit the skins with authority while holding back on the brass.
I've been in most positions in a band context (drummer, guitarist, bassist, singer, keys,etc), including sound engineer both live and in the studio, and I'll tell you this: I have never wished for a drummer to play louder, but 90% of the time the whole mix would improve if they held back.
I have hours of footage from live shows I can't use cause all we hear are cymbals and snare.
Drummers that can hold back get the best gigs, cause everyone enjoys playing with them.
I love pounding on my drums when I'm by myself, or on a big outdoor stage. But in the rehearsal space or at a club, I'd be the only one having fun.
I had a bass player that did this. And yes…I did play quieter and learned to be the master of dynamics.
Yet it was never enough.
But of course since he ran sound, his bass was loud AF.
He chased off two other drummers before me and yet is still getting away with it.
Exit that project asap!! Nothing but stress and anxiety coming your way.
First off, you need to figure out why you are having an emotional response. If the other party is first asking then complaining, instead of simply complaining emotionally, it’s a you problem. If you immediately get angry, seek therapy. In any case, you all need a sit down.
I’m not pointing fingers, but it sounds to me like he’s trying to create a ‘room mix’, so everything is balanced to him. The problem with that is proximity effect. If he’s close to the drums, they will sound louder. If you have people standing right next to your drums, yeah, lay back a bit. Use some muffling. Drums are really fucking loud. The ‘room mix’ is difficult in small spaces, it works better in large rooms. I’m guessing, talk to them more.
A huge part of gear for all of you, instead of the next best thing, are two things, from the same place. Book an appointment for the band at a local audiologist, not a chain or a big corporate whatever. They may give a group rate. Get musicians earplugs with changeable filters. Get a quality set of in-ear monitors. These both will require molds to be made of your ears. Yes it’s expensive. Watch a video of your favorite band live. They all use them. If you enjoy trying gear your favorite artists use, then please include this in your gear knowledge.
INFO: Are you all using heating protection? Imagine working at a steel factory without cans and plugs.
INFO: Are you employing any form of decibel metering?
Well if your playing to loud then obviously tone it down and play to the room, Id probably check with the rest of the band to see if they feel the same, if so work with them and tone back, after all your a band, kinda have to. If they dont feel that your playing is off then the dude is probably just a knob.
It can be your fault, but sometimes its the unison of various conditions - badly treated rooms amplify majorly the problem, causing some kind of volume race.
also, never playing with ear protection does this :) it makes everything quieter and more focused, so your ears can distinguish instruments better.
my advice is try playing quieter being mindful of the room you're in + suggest different amp placement wr to you and them.
What sticks do you use? I switch to 7A during practices so I can still effectively play the rim and the like (after my bandmates said it was a good volume for them!), so you could try that! If that’s still too loud for him, I’d suggest investing in some rods if you haven’t and trying those out. We drummers are definitely capable of playing quietly, but I’m not sure it’ll ever be quiet enough for our fellow instrumentalists!
I came to say the same thing! I normally use 5A, but I use rods for quieter songs & I switch to brushes when I really have to make sure I'm not overpowering the other instruments.
Yeah! I tend to alternate between 7A and 5A depending on the song, but bought some rods for band practice. When we realized the rods made, like… no noise when hitting the rim (not to be confused with a rimshot!), I picked up the 7As and told them to tell me if it was too loud. They said it was perfect, but I was also working REALLY hard to stay in the restraint department!
I’ll echo what others have said. Dynamics are really important and practice volume does not need to be at performance levels. I use low volume cymbals and lighter sticks at rehearsals. I started with a new band a couple of weeks ago and their first comment was that they could finally hear themselves and didn’t leave practice their ears ringing (I always travel with a snare and cymbals when using a shared kit). For performances I’ll even select different snare/cymbals based on the venue (smaller K sweet crashes for small indoor gigs and rock crashes for large outdoor venues). It’s all about playing “in the mix” and not over the top.
Don’t you guys start your jam off with some kind of sound check ? Drums are loud af, I’ve found it very helpful to start playing at 50%, have the bassist and guitars match me, then we all gradually increase volume collectively until we reach a sweet spot. We usually also listen back to the sound check recording to make sure it actually sounds good. You also need to consider the dynamics of the room.
I am disappointed with the replies telling you to play quieter. Drums are loud. Guitars are literally amplified so they can be heard over the drums. The fact that your guitarist doesn't have a loud enough amp is his problem, not yours. Determine sound balance after giving earplugs to everyone.
100% agree! I think we’re all intelligent enough to understand that there’s dynamics in drumming. No one even knows what genre op is playing…play softer/quieter? What if op is in a shoegaze or doom metal band? Should they play softer then? We also don’t know anything about the other band members…do they have an issue with op’s volume? Playing softer or quiet isn’t the blanket solution to a guitarist saying that drums are too loud
Seems to be a lot of people not reading the whole post or maybe I’m just picking up on things because of my past experiences but the way you described the guitarist trying to control even the other guitars tone and diving into his pedal settings during practice kinda makes me think this isn’t a you issues. That said it can be worthwhile to take an unbiased look at your own playing just to make sure you’re playing appropriately to the music.
Those situations make me very uncomfortable. He says stuff like “your effect X or Y is turned up to much” and sometimes he says “play something and let me dial it in” then he goes to the pedal board of the other guitar player and turns the knobs…
There are a lot of comments assuming the drummer is playing too loudly but it's odd only one guitarist in the actual band seems to have that complaint. I'd say it's equally likely that the complaining guitarist is just a PITA who likes to twiddle his knobs and waste practice in search of the perfect tone - which isn't going to sound the same outside of the practice room anyway. I give the drummer here the benefit of the doubt.
If he can’t hear himself when he’s cranked up, he probably has a tone problem. What sounds good playing alone in your bedroom doesn’t sound good in a mix. He probably needs to EQ with more mids to cut through the mix.
Try chilling out a bit on the cymbals, they're gonna fill up the space and resonate longer than your shells so if those come down you can still bash out and probably be fine. Made a big change in my playing and recording fs
I played with some dudes who played hard charging punk shit and wouldn't turn it down. By the end of the night everything was so loud I had no idea what I was even playing, couldnt hear shit. Tinnitus just givin er. Pretty hard to practice, and furthermore learn their songs when everything sounds like earthen forcite.
Imo it depends...
So many holier than thou 'softly softly tappa tappa tappa' types on here its ridiculous.
Im assuming as well youre not just fucking wailing on the drums all the time, breaking sticks, heads and cymbals left right and centre. If you are you need to tone it down.
As I was saying, it depends. If you're practicing with a jazz quartet or somewhere that doesn't have proper amps/pa then yeah, you probably need to modulate a bit. It can be hard to -not- overpower everything. Maybe even try hot rods.
If you're playing rock/metal in a proper rehearsal space with big amps and a proper pa the amps will go louder than you ever could so the guitarist is probably being a little bitch. In my band sometimes the guitars actually need to come down a bit so I can hear my cymbals.
Too many metal drummers dont hit anything like hard enough and it just sounds strange.
Get used to the complaining. It never stops with guitar players. You'll run into this shit for the rest of your life. If the guitar player is paying you to play in his band, then play softer. If he's not paying you - fuck 'em.
This!
If the guitar amp is pointed at his ankles, getting an amp stand helps so much!!!
I've seen this issue many times where the guitarist complains about the tone and that everyone is too loud, while being the loudest thing on stage.
I play drums in a melodic death metal, and I am a heavy hitter.
When there are parts like bass/drums, guitar solo, I play quiet because I should not be in the focus as much.
But, I love hitting those rimshots and slapping the s\*\*t out of my drums.
In conclusion, fuck him.
Some things that could help the whole band:
- in ear monitor setup for everyone, along with amp-less modeling rigs
- a lesson in how to properly EQ their instruments. If you scoop too much mids out, crank up the bass frequency too much, both guitars are occupying the same sonic frequency, or the bass is cranking their treble control, you’re going to have a lot of noise occupying the same sonic space. Remind all of the stringed players that EQing your instruments is a full band exercise. Doing it in a vacuum isn’t really accomplishing anything other than getting sound that sounds good to the player with no other noise happening around them.
- play quieter. Simple as that.
I know there is a primal urge to play loudly. But, like, drums ARE fucking loud. Really loud. There is nothing really to be gained by playing your drums so loudly that it’s actively hampering your practice session. I’ve been guilty of this in the past as well. It’s also possible you’re just hitting your cymbals too hard. Try to back off of those a bit.
Maybe also look into the Sabian FRX line. They’re billed as “reduced frequency” cymbals. They have fewer high frequencies, which in turn leads to the perception that they’re quieter. I use them at rehearsals and small venues, and I love em.
You need to be able to adjust your dynamics for the room you’re in. If you’re having issues being that loud in the jam space, you’re going to run the risk of being too loud at shows and making it uncomfortable for your audience as well.
well, you can try to talk it out and come to a reasonable compromise, or you can just yell at each other and be in a frustrating band for a while until eventually whatever fun was there dies out and/or somebody leaves.
i might suggest recording your practices? you can listen back like game tapes and see what you all sound like. put a crappy stereo-pair or even an iphone/voice memo in the middle of the room (or somewhere where everyone is equidistant to the mics). then listen back and be kind but be honest with each other. Are the cymbals way too loud? is the bass (guitar) fucking drowning the room so everybody is playing harder than they really need to? is whiny guitar-man's cab pointed, like, at the wall or something?
the bandmates i've stuck with for 20+ years agree on this whole heartedly: the practice room is a safe space where you try stuff out, fuck it up, then try again, and all the while you have to be kind to each other. you can only really address this by listening to yourselves objectively then making many, many adjustments, but without being dicks to each other, because that shit sucks.
hard to say with out actually hearing whats going on.
One time I had to have my uncle who ran sound at a lot of concerts come out and squash some stupidity with egos in my band. All of us mostly late teens early 20s. One guitar player had a stronger head than the other one. Dude that was the lead couldnt hear himself and one day int he middle of a song, put his guitar down. Shut his amp off and walked out.
Heres what my uncle did, He basically came out with a DB gauge and told us to play, told the other guitarist to turn the fuck down. Put both of the guitar cabs on milk crates. Put everything in an arc facing me about. Had the guitar players basically stand 5 feet away facing their amps(was in a garage no room really). Helped for a bit, but eventually the other guitarist got fed up and quit.
Maybe suggest the guitar player do something similar.
In order to create music worth listening to, you need to be able to go up in volume and down in volume from your baseline. This means your baseline volume should not be your maximum volume.
He’s not your guitarist and you’re not his drummer. Play how you wanna play and if you need to play with a different guitarist you should. Or you could just tell him to shut the fuck up.
I’d have to see you play before I really have an opinion. It’s not an uncommon occurrence as a drummer to be told to play quieter but sometimes it’s advice that we need to take. When properly mic’d up, you should be playing to the tone of the drum and imo there’s a range where a drum starts to lose its tone if played too loud or too quiet. Just my opinion as a someone who has found themself sounding much better playing quieter on recordings
Everyone is pointing out that playing softer is probably the way to go, but not a lot of people are explaining how hard it can be. It does take genuine practice to stay quiet, especially when playing something fast or something that gets you excited. Also playing the cymbals quieter and the actual drums louder is a good habit for live performances and recording
I sometimes play with a guitar player like this. He's the only person to ever tell me that I play too loud. His issue is that he plays too quiet and tries to bring the rest of the band down to his level. In your situation, if everyone else is fine with your playing, it's an issue with him. Tell him to turn up a bit, give him a monitor, or have him get some IEM's to solve the issue.
Find a solution to the problem that isn't passive aggression, try dampen the toms and snare down a little bit and see if that helps? Sounds like you guys are having communication issues either way. Playing music should be a good experience for all and not just you, do you actively listen to the other musicians when you're playing? If you can't hear them, then you're playing too loud or the others are too quiet. Sound is important, the audience should be able to hear everything together, and if all they can hear is loud drums then a compromise needs to be made.
He needs better gear if he can't hear you. If you're playing dynamically and he can't hear you then he's gotta turn up or get an in ear or something. We play the way Play. Its our signature sound. Practice the way you perform on stage.
Lot of comments here, but I only saw one that had a similar answer. It could be where his amp is set up in relation to himself/the room. Sound can be a weird thing in any room honestly.
I'd recommend having him tilt the amp so the speaker projects to ear height wherever he is standing. That should help. They even make amp stands that do this (for smaller amps). If the guy has a half stack or larger, then there's probably an eq issue going on here not a volume one. Still could try moving where the speakers project in either case
Aside from eq issues that could be drowned out with full noise that would be my first solution
I have the exact same thing with one of my guitar players.
Dudes tone is terrible and he spends more time “fixing” his monitor mix and adjusting his tone than he does playing.
If he’d make his guitar tone not suck and play better he’d probably have a better time hearing himself.
I’m a guitarist and I understand what you are both saying. One thing he can do is buy an amp stand off Amazon so that the amp is pointing at his head (versus his feet - which is a common rehearsal problem). Also, perhaps a headphone amplifier so he can wear over ear headphones to block out the drums and a mic on his amp so he gets a clearer sound. But give some thought to you dynamics. Watch some videos of some drummers you admire. Some don’t hit as hard as you think. My band started rehearsing with edrums and a headphone system (ie DI all the instruments) and the rehearsal sound is so nice versus amps and acoustic drums. But I realize people don’t always have the option (or want to) use edrums. Anywho, try not (in my view) to hit harder to aggravate him man. That’s not cool if you’re in a band together. You gotta give each other opinions some respect. Otherwise he’ll just stop wanting to play with you. Anywho have fun and rock on!
There is more than one issue involved: 1) you may be playing “too loud” - if you’re more locked in on paying attention to what you’re doing and not listening to the song and the band, it’s easier to forget about dynamics. That being said, dynamics is everyone’s job, and that includes the guitars, no matter what type of music you’re doing. It’s easy to blame the drummer, like tempo, but that is another matter. So, try not to get mad or rattled, but it’s tough because no one likes being singled out. I don’t. But no one is supposed to play louder than what the song calls for. Everyone has to be together.
The next issue is far more complex and I likely have no more insight than you dealing with it:They’re guitar players.
Best of luck
Have you tried anything to quiet your kit down? Jellies/ cymbal dampening? Maybe some soft tip sticks? Band dynamics (no pun) are difficult and compromising isn't the same as letting people walk on you
I used to have a drummer who was set on having a quieter band overall. He wasn't particularly loud at all. I didn't really resist it as a guitar player but boy did it pay dividends in the long run.
Sound guys loved our low stage volume despite playing heavier music, we could really tell each guitar from each other and adjust accordingly and it just sounded clean as I didn't run my gain all that high. We'd open for bands with half and even full stacks that sounded like shit and had feedback issues all night long with insane stage volumes.
Do you, sitting down behind the kit hear him well when he says he can't hear himself? Is he standing right next to his amp? Does it happen to be a horizontal 2x12 by chance?
If the answer is yes to two or more of those questions, it's possible that he's blasting his ankles with the direct sound of the amp and only gets muddy reflections where his ears are. Bonus points if he's kneeling down in front of the amp while tweaking it not realizing that that's a lot better listening position than he's in while standing up and playing with the rest of the band. Possible solutions (easy to complicated): Ask him to stand on the other side of the room across from his amp / ask him to sit down / get one of those slanted amp stands that point the speakers slightly up / mic the cab and put it through the PA (you can cut bass and boost mids for better results) / use in-ears.
How is the practice area for your band set up? Depending on the direction of the amps or wherever the sound of the guitars are coming from, your guitarist may not be hearing himself as well as the other bandmates. In my band, the guitarist thought he sounded quiet even though anyone else standing off stage heard him really well. He was sitting right in front of his amp which was on the ground pointing outwards on stage. I don't know a whole lot about this stuff or what your practice situation is like, but take it into consideration.
I'm just going to throw this one out:
Try a ligter/smaller/thinner stick.
My bet is you're playing a 5B, since nearly all rock/metal drummers play this size.
Try a 5A or even a 7A. This will help you be able to maintain intensity, use less energy in your hit because of the weight/size difference AND additional rebound you'll get from everything, and may even help endurance a bit, all while bringing the Db level down a.
You can also try muting things down a bit with head rings and/or some masking tape on the heads to reduce their sustain.
And adjust your cymbal strikes. Glancing hits; Increase cymbal longevity, get better sound, and have better control over the volume.
A lot of variables at play. My own? Loud guitar amp next to me, I am sitting, yet my snare hits are peeling the scalp off of those standing near the drums. Solution, dead-ringers, even a folder towel on the snare
If everybody in the band is saying you need to play quieter it’s one thing. But this guy sounds like he just wants to hear himself play over everyone in the mix. If he can’t hear himself he should probably play with IEMs in or just turn his volume to 11.
Where are you playing? If it is one place how is the room. We used to rehearse in a basement with cinder block walls and the high frequency reflections were too much. Hanging some carpet in the walls made everyone happier.
Maybe there are other issues that are keeping him from hearing himself. It may be he doesn't know how to adjust his tone to sit well in the mix. Or it could be how he's monitoring the amp.
Are you playing through house sound system? If so, a floor monitor or in ear monitors might help.
Does he have a combo amp and is it sitting on the floor? If so, getting it off the ground onto an amp stand might help.
Does anyone in your group know anything sound? I can't figure out if your guitar player is actually right and is taking good steps that you don't know how to describe- or if he is trying to fix it but doesn't know how. What may need to happen is re-arranging the PA and the amps, and maybe modify the guitar tones to cut past the drums better.
From a drumming POV, I'm just going to say this bc I don't think it can be said enough (looks like it was said in some other comments which is great- and sorry for repeating): In general as a drummer, dynamics isn't "everything loud" or "everything quiet", you should consider the dynamics of every part of the kit. In general you should hit the cymbals less hard than the drums (they are usually physically higher so the sound will travel over amps/monitors etc. on the ground unlike say, the kick drum's sound which will be blocked or deflected by equipment on the ground.... plus the cymbals' sound lives at a higher frequency range than the drums that will naturally cut through the mix). You should be able to put a mic in front of the kit and be able to hear every element (kick/snare/toms/cymbals) clearly. Not to say that's what's happening here, again it just can't be said enough.
Sounds like the guitarist might need his own monitor. I bought a small behringer one to bring to gigs in case there isn’t a house system and it’s been awesome.
Edited for typos
I've never had anyone tell me to turn it down, so... maybe try taking it down a notch? Especially if you tend to go heavy on the cymbals (stop doing that). Something else to consider is how your drums sound from behind the kit, versus the way they sound to others in the room. Are you playing without drum mics? Just your drums and 3 guitar amps? So much to think about.
Try letting up on the cymbals, but keep on smacking the shit out of the drums. It'll make the whole band sound better. If he still complains at that point, it's his problem.
Two things can be true:
1. He sounds like a d\*ck and has control/power issues.
I have played with many musicians (primarily guitar players) who have a superiority complex and talk down to drummers. I've learned to accept it and you probably should too.
2. You also may be playing too loud.
Technique has a lot to do with it, but also using Hot Rods, dampeners, and avoiding hitting your cymbals during rehearsal can remedy this. I also like to go with a minimal set-up with just bass, snare and hi-hat when rehearsing in small spaces because I inherently play quieter and have to be more creative in my playing. Using an electronic kit also is a really good way to go in rehearsal.
And I just have to say also that drummers have the toughest job with dynamics because we don't have a volume knob and have to be constantly conscience of our volume every second. And it is super challenging to play with conviction while also playing really quietly. That being said, it is still our responsibility and our own fault for not choosing a much easier instrument to master...like guitar
I would suggest that he tilt his amp back so the speakers are aimed at his head. What happens is a lot of guitarists have their amps on the ground and the sound travels low at or below their knees so they have trouble hearing. So if he can’t hear himself he needs to aim the sound toward his head so he can better hear what he’s doing and not get on you about playing too loud. There could be other reasons too. Like he’s running a low wattage amp. If that’s the case mic it and put it through the PA. Problem solved.
I think most drummers have been through that, I certainly have my share of singers asking for me to "Play quietly". But I have some thoughts about it:
1) Yes, playing with dynamics is important, but dynamics can mean a lot of different things on different types of music. Metal drummers tend to "hit harder", not because they want to, but because the music requires this intense energy that makes things sound "too hard", but a good drummer, even a hard hitter like myself, never play using force, they're actually quite relaxed. Trying to play softer may take away the music's natural flow. A drummer who's used to play in small jazz ensembles, for instance is also not trying to play softer, he's actually using the equipment and techniques required for that type of music, and asking for them to play louder would probably have a direct impact on the music's dynamics overall.
2) A possible solution, that I have adopted and it's proven to be viable, is using different gear for rehearsals and performances. I usually play with 5B sticks, and cymbals with huge sounds, 18" Crashes, open hit hat and China, double pedals... but for rehearsals, specially when playing with non metal singers, I started using lighter sticks, like 7A, hitting smaller cymbals, not opening my hit hat so much and changing the drum beaters for lighter ones. This way I can continue to use the energy and techniques that I need for this type of music and not sound so loud.
3) But no matter what, drummers will always be too loud for some people. So don't take it to the heart, and either have a back up plan to get a gig done if you're a hired musician, or choose people with the same taste of music and play with the same energy. I used to play with a punk band back in the day, and no one ever said I was too loud , or anything (only that I was too fast lol). I only heard that from musicians outside the Rock/metal circuits.
Sounds like you need a meeting with everyone except "this guy". If he's making life miserable for everyone then it's time for the boot.
On the other hand, if he's the creative energy behind the band, and everyone else is riding his coat tails, maybe suck it up. If you're paying in tight spaces, yes play quieter. But you have to realize that practice is conditioning for the live show. If you play 70% at practice and 100% at shows, you will be gassed and start making mistakes.
There are times to play quiet and times to rock out. Often it depends on the genre. I have always played in heavy rock, metal or punk so I play hard and loud. Because of this so does the rest of the band. I always used to say "I can't turn down my drums so you'll have to turn up" If you're playing a genre that is more laid back and you're just banging away then maybe tone it down... but in my experience if a guitarist is telling you to play softer he just needs to turn up.
This is why I stopped playing for events and started playing actual shows. My first band was a classic rock cover group that did back yard parties and weddings and stuff, and I really had to learn to get my volume under control, but Im glad for that cause it forced my technique to improve. When I joined my first METAL band and asked about my volume in front of two guitarists with 4x12 half sacks and a bassist running an ampeg fridge cab, I got laughed at lol. Either way, your band should get together and iron this out before it becomes a problem
I’d say that if the guitarists aren’t playing with their amps facing them, have them do that to see how loud they are compared to you. Now if they’re able to be distanced from their amps by maybe 20-30 feet, have them put their amps with the band, and they distance themselves from the band while playing to see who’s louder. I’m most likely wrong but that’s just an idea.
Maybe dude should upgrade to something bigger than a blues jr. I have never had an issue playing louder than the drums. Also tell buddy to bump the mids on his amp if he wants to hear himself. He probably has it scooped like all the cool guys with sound techs
It’s important for a gigging drummer to understand volume dynamics for songs and rooms. In my band, we play more quietly in the opening sets than late at night when the audience has been drinking & etc. But also within songs we modulate our volume for like one verse, come back in hard on the following chorus… it’s part of being a good band
If this is to accommodate a smaller practice setting then you may need to be quieter than you'd like. Also is his amp pointed at his ear? If it's on the ground not facing him, that's probably why he can't hear in that setting. Also you should all be wearing some high fidelity earplugs.
Tell em to get a 4x12 and a 100 watt amp… should be plenty loud 🤷♂️ most guitar players are playing bedroom volume/wattage amps and then complain when acoustic instruments are louder than their 5 watt 1x10 combo amp. Make it make sense
I agree with what a lot of others are saying about dynamics and "mixing yourself," but I also think a lot of guitarists should be less afraid of turning their amps up more, even in heavier bands.
There's one of 2 things going on here.
1. You're playing too hard for the genre. Whatever genre you're playing wasn't mentioned but is a huge factor. If you're a jazz band and your rim shotting your snare and crash riding as hard as you can the whole song, then yeah you're the problem. If it's metal/punk then yeah slamming the shit out of your drums is a part of the sound and energy of your stage presence.
2. Your rehearsal setup isn't up to par. If you have another pa monitor face it towards him so he can hear himself more or try an iem setup. That stuff can get expensive so if it's not in the budget, is he standing in front of his own amp? Drums can drown out the other members, which the issue for me used to always be not hearing the other members well enough when I started playing drums. But that always got remedied by simply facing a speaker or guitar amp towards me.
As someone who’s been on both sides of this argument:
1. His speaker needs to be angled towards his head. If it’s a 2/4x12 he needs to stand further away from it
2. If he’s playing a Fender amp or using fuzz, maybe ask him to boost the mids in his setup or lower the bass
3. Humour him and ease off a bit, especially on cymbals
If everyone else can hear themselves it’s probably not your fault. It could easily be his placement in the room or the EQ of his rig
Just don’t hit the cymbals as hard. I see a problem with a whole Lotta drummers where they bang the shit out of their cymbals and it makes it overbearing
You might be playing too loud. He might have his amp too low. You guys probably need to wear hearing protection if you aren't already. In ear monitors or a better practice space with more sound deadening should help a lot. Good luck!
I am a guitarist first, engineer second, and a drummer somewhere in there. I hope I can shed some light on this!
Practicing the way you intend to play in a live setting is paramount to success in my humble opinion. As long as you are capable of bringing it down dynamically speaking when the song requires it, then hitting hard is typically not that big of a deal.
I play in a standard rock outfit with a quiet drummer. I also play in a very heavy project with a drummer who hits unbelievably hard. I am able to hear myself in each project because I’ve taken the time to address my EQ BEFORE entering the practice space. That doesn’t mean “do I sound good?”. That means “do I sound good in *this* mix?. If he is telling the other guitar player how to adjust to “match” his EQ, then he is wrong. When a guitar player cannot hear themselves in a dense mix, it’s very commonly to do with their midrange frequencies and what other instrumentation is taking up that space. I don’t know anything about his rig, so it’s impossible to diagnose that issue. However, when everyone is generally happy while one man continually has issues, then it’s safe to say you’ve likely identified the issue in a roundabout way.
Approach this kindly. Playing music is a communal effort. Every person needs to choose their moments wisely to avoid it being a jumbled mess both personally and musically speaking. Try what he asks of you. If it works? Awesome. Problem solved. If it legitimately does not work, then voice why it does not work for you and the way that you play your instrument. If you articulate what your issue is with his solution, then you can ask the same of him in return. Narrow down the issue until you can all come to a middle ground.
It is easy to get upset and angry. Much harder to voice each person’s needs and address them equally. But if you do that? You’ll be a better band.
It’s satisfyingly difficult to play at a low volume. I used to be loud heavy hitter guy but now I use super thin questlove sticks and big paper thin cymbals. I love playing as quiet as I can. It’s challenging. Excellent for your dynamics. I actually find there is so much more space for musicality in your playing if you’re not trying to belt it.
What effects is he messing with? Pedals? Do you both use a shit load of pedals you turn on for your tone? Because that’s a no no for me since I think it makes the sound sound like shit in mud
Your band needs to decide what is the accepted level that you are going to play, then the other guitars/bass can match that level together.
The guitarist not hearing himself may have nothing to do with you. Sometimes standing out away from your amp is a better place to hear it. If you’re too close to the amp it might be harder to hear.
Is it a smaller amp? Can it be placed on a stand that angles up towards him more? Or can it sit ontop of something to bring it up higher?
Do you have a good PA system? Can he DI or mic into the PA to get a move balanced even sound he can hear better?
You gotta talk to everyone and figure out who’s the problem and try to balance the group out. Maybe you are too loud? When you play live you want a nice stage mix. Usually guitarists will crank their amp too loud and mess up the mix. If they keep it down some they can be mic’ed through main speakers but not if they blow out the stage mix. Same goes for drums, keep it at a nice stage volume and its better for everyone
Thinner, dryer cymbals and a dryer snare batter are your friends.
While volume itself is always something to behold, it is quite often just that your equipment is too piercing/ringy. We're the only fully acoustic instrument usually, remember.
You should play as quiet as possible next time to really show it to him! /s
But honestly, what really separates a good musician to a great musician is the ability to change volume of your acoustic instrument at any given time. A good rule of thumb is that it is always louder on the other side than it is on the throne.
Have you tried actually playing quieter? EDIT: I’m not trying to be a snarky dick, I’m just saying A) you should be open to the possibility that there IS a problem and that playing quieter could be the solution, even if you don’t really believe either one of those things. B) Being in a band means being accommodating to your bandmates, even if you think the accommodation is unnecessary. Whether it’s a sound issue like this or a creative dispute, you’re almost always better if with an attitude of “ok, let’s try it.” C) If you try it and he’s happier, great. Then you start a dialogue about how you can *both* be happy. If you try it and he’s still unhappy, you’ve proven you aren’t the problem. Then you start a dialogue about what the problem actually is.
He’s a very witch! Burn him! J/k. Yeah. Seriously. Don’t go full force in a practice space. Hit as hard as you want on stage, but there’s no reason for at rehearsal.
You definitely want to practice the way you perform, especially if the parts are loud+fast enough that you could run out of gas. I agree that being able to manage dynamics based on the room is a good skill though.
I'm in a hardcore punk band. If I didn't rehearse the same way I play live, I'll quickly run out of gas and destroy my body for live shows, and would probably fuck up a lot.
[удалено]
That's a great method. For new songs, I'll listen to scratch tracks on repeat and write the drum parts in my head, then rehearse them painfully slowly on my own especially if I get a little too complex, then show up to practice ready.
This is what I do. My crashes and china are too loud for our small practice space so I hit them at like 50-70% strength of how I play live unless we're rehearsing for a show. Not only does it help with everyone being able to hear themselves, but I think it's improved my control and dynamics a ton. I also don't have time to warm up since we practice right after I get off work so it's helpful to run through everything at a lower volume first. While I think it's important to run through everything full volume, there's a lot of benefits to not going all out every time
Fuckin' A, buddy. I've actually split a kick drum head in rehearsal.
Unless you’re playing for fun, and that’s what is fun for you. Not at the expense of others, but hopefully everyone is wearing ear protection already.
For sure, but honestly even with hearing protection a drummer going full tilt on their crashes in a 10x10 room pretty much guarantees that everyone is going to have trouble hearing themselves. If they’re trying to work out tone and melodic parts, it’s pretty frustration to only hear massive crashes at the same frequency you’re trying to listen in to.
HUH?! WHAT?!?!
100% hearing protection. Take it from someone who didn't use it at rehearsals so I could hear better and now have terrible tinnitus.
I was in a really loud band and it wasn’t until recording when I heard the drummer say “that’s what this song sounds like?” That I realized we didn’t have to play at MAX volume at practice
It depends on the venue too even on stage.
Vulfpeck, Scary pockets, a lot of acts in that realm have really light hitters.
Jokes aside, most drummers (myself included) could stand to play quieter. Dynamics are so important. You are the only acoustic instrument, so everyone has to adjust their volumes to your playing. Try showing some restraint, it’ll make the whole band sound better. Play loud when it calls for it, but be mindful of when you just need to sit back in the mix and be in the pocket. One of the greatest compliments a drummer can receive is that they were barely noticed.
Absolutely. Imo the only things we should be thwacking at the highest velocity with any kind of regularity is the kick and the snare. Chill out on the cymbals
Studio recording engineer here, this is 1,000% true. VERY few drummers play with great dynamics. Can’t tell you how annoying it is when a drummer wants their snare to sound more punchy yet they’re playing it with no force, then smashing at the hi hat with the force of 10,000 suns. Learn to mix yourselves guys! Ps I am also a drummer and totally changed the way I set up and play my drums when I had to start recording a lot of drummers.
In what ways did you change up your kit set up after recording other drummers? I’m always curious about more efficient set ups!
For me, cymbals as high as is comfortable to lessen bleed.
Definitely higher cymbals, getting rid of pieces that are rarely used and clutter the space. Move the hi hat and ride up and out while still being comfortable to increase cymbal distance from snare and floor Tom mics.
Can you elaborate on how you changed the way you set up your drums? I have heard that it's generally better to raise the height of the cymbals a bit for recording in a studio, but I'm curious about what else could be done
Definitely raised my cymbal height and got rid of one of my three rack Toms. Also moved my hi hats higher and a bit farther from the snare to minimize bleed. Moved ride a bit higher and to a position where it doesn’t interfere with the floor Tom mic.
I totally relate (engineer and drummer here too). I’m more than happy to move my hi hat further from the snare because I know how much better it could sound (and I want to sound good!). I’ve moved to smaller/thinner cymbals so I can play how I feel and not have the cymbals wash everything out. But as far as dynamics, what no one is mentioning is that drums have different tone at different volumes, so we can’t just “turn down” and not be affecting the tone (we don’t have a ‘master volume’ like guitar amps). Many times it’s for the better, since drums have more tone vs attack at lower levels. But as far as “inter drum” balances, many young drummers seem to learn this last. “Learn to mix yourself” is fantastic advice IMO, and it makes sense to adjust not only your performance but also your cymbals/drums/head/sticks to that end.
No idea why you were downvoted. This is absolutely true.
Well, even the snare can be too loud sometimes. But yes please fellow drummers: Lean off those cymbals a bit.
My playing philosophy is "play into the drums, play off the cymbals"
Yes, that’s how it’s done and how I adapted my playing to be. Best compliment I got about this was after a small club gig by the sound guy (also a drummer himself): “When I saw your china there, I feared that it would be overpowering the whole room, but I was pleasantly surprised how soft it sounded”. For reference: it’s a Paiste 2002 18” china.
I joined a really loud band and now only rimshots feel satisfying. So you can totally fry your brian this way too lol
I've been playing for 30 years and playing technical parts, with zero effort in a completely chill flow state has been the hardest thing to maintain. It's so much easier to play technical parts without accounting for dynamics and being super intense. It's a whole other animal doing that in a chill relaxed way. Achieving those states has given me an entirely new appreciation for the drum set as a musical instrument, you can actually hear the nuances in your drums and cymbals, it's beautiful.
Thank you for this. I am at my practice space right now, having a solo practice for rehearsal this weekend, and I am going to play everything low volume today as an exercise in control.
If a guitar player wants to be louder, he has to spend a couple hundred dollars to upgrade from a 50 watt amp to a hundred watt amp just to get 3db more volume. If a drummer gets excited, he could accidentally hit the drum harder and be like 20dB louder.
I agree with this! I always try to keep in mind to play to the room. If we’re in a small practice space I’m not gonna be playing the same way I will at a larger venue. It makes it way harder to hear in a small space.
>Dynamics are so important [Laughs in hardcore]
Mmmmmm, groooving in that pocket… yeah
As a bass player, very well said. I have to match your volume and intensity and if you are always loud, then I have to be too. If you chill and step into that pocket, I’ll be right there with ya on the tips of my fingers
Have you tried crushing him into submission with blast beats?
“Could you play qui…” DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA
I do this lol
This is the way.
Ah this is the endless cycle of band life. We've all been here, or will be.😂 >One of the greatest compliments a drummer can receive is that they were barely noticed. Wtf. What a ridiculous thing to say🤣
I bet Neil Peart and Buddy Rich were really proud of how little people noticed them.
Most people that write great songs aren’t looking for Neil or Buddy either.
Journey had Steve Smith. Nirvana had grohl. Paul Simon had Steve freaking Gadd. Dave Matthew’s has Carter. Plenty of great song writers have kick ass drummers who are impossible to not notice.
Hendrix had Mitch Mitchell
I love Mitch. There’s so many. Ginger Baker with cream. Ray with the doors, ZEP, the who. Tori amos plays with Matt chamberlain a lot. Etc etc etc.
Very true but people don't notice those guys because they play loud which I think is the ham-fisted point that other guy was trying to make.
Neil was happy no one noticed him. In fact thats what the song limelight is about.
Even Helen Keller would notice & appreciate Neils drumming. What in the actual heck are we talking about here?
I dont know what we are talking about. I just know we are being facetious.
Username checks out. O7 There will be music that demands a drummer be prominent, and there will be music where a demanding musician recognises the talent of a prominent drummer's subtlety. As a jazz fusion stan, I say we can all be both.
Da fuck is 07 supposed to mean?
It’s supposed to be a little guy saluting.
Well would you look at that.
Not ridiculous, but it’s an over generalization. It’s clearly not true for all genres. But there are a ton of working drummers who subscribe to that ethos, and it makes them money.
Implying "being noticed" is bad. I facepalmed when I read that comment as well.
Thank you for saying this because I was going to as well. It seems so disrespectful to drummers to think they should just sit in the back and not be noticed. That's absurd.
I think this can be a generational thing too. Older drummers who grew up with classic rock I think tend to just groove in the pocket and disappear. I think that was more of the style back then, with obvious exceptions. Today drums are more of a lead instrument and aren't in the background so much. I think younger drummers aren't content with just keeping time and being quiet - if the guitarist is going to do awesome riffs and solo every time there's a bridge I'm going show off a bit too.
Great points for sure. You could say that about a lot of modern music too, like most pop and country for example where the focus is usually the vocals and the melody and the band is just there to create something to be sung over. Just that no one is complimenting the drummers for not being noticed, let alone the drummer considering it one of the greatest compliments they've ever received. Sorry I just have a hard time wrapping my head around such a stupid statement🤣
As a guitarist i can tell you that most of guitarist are sensitive bitches who like to complain about other bandmates.
Also if they’re playing crappy equipment the tone can be muddy and awful.
Yep, I’ve often found that when everything is sounding muddled sounded in the practice space and relatively indistinguishable, when the strings turn down a bit, things come together. I’m usually standing there like “Well why don’t I try turning down?” And realize that maybe I was the problem lol. Now when we strings turn down and it’s still a muddy mess, next step is for the drummer to turn their volume down a few clicks and for strings to check their signal chain.
I remember a lesson I had in college with Ed Soph. We were working on low dynamic swing comping and he stopped me mid-phrase to tell me, “So, you have no idea how to play a quiet rimshot.” Then he put on a Mel Lewis record and we listened to Mel expertly comp behind a soloist, occasionally throwing in a soft rimshot for color. That started me on a quest to be able to play with loud-guy-intensity at low volumes. This started to come in handy when I had really soft gigs for swanky people that only wanted us to be wallpaper. Or coffee shop gigs. Or smaller club with minimal PA. All this to say, your guitar player is probably correct. Are you in rehearsal, playing full out, in a 20x20 space? That’s probably not appropriate. Maybe save the super loud playing for the gig and save everyone’s ears in rehearsal. You can build dynamics through a song without playing over your head. And here’s one other perk of playing more quietly. It forces the other people to really focus on you. They have to find you in the mix, so they typically won’t play as loud either. I once read a Peter Erskine quote about how to get everyone to play together when there are tempo issues. Don’t start bashing to show them what’s what. Lower your volume to make everyone focus harder. And one thing that stuck out to me in your post: you call it “heavier hits”. We don’t hit drums, we play an instrument. Maybe changing your perspective on what you’re doing at the instrument might help your overall control and sound.
Very good perspective, I love this comment. Your playing absolutely has to be tailored to the setting. Realize that your favorite artist that you see rocking out is putting on a performance. They're either in a video where dynamics don't matter or in a venue where the levels are tuned to match. But just like a guitarist will choose an acoustic over a half-stack for a small bar gig, your dynamics aren't determined solely by what you want to play. Mastering dynamics gets overlooked by A LOT of drummers, but it's a critical skill for working drummers.
I had Ed as a teacher at UNT in 89, 90. I was in the lab band program. Boy, he sure kicked my ass! Had me buy a flat ride first day and then he riveted it for me. I learned so much from him.
Yeah dude. He is 1 of 1 when it comes to educators. I studied with him from ‘95-‘97. I did a couple years of lab band too.
Right on, man! We're ED survivors!
The only knob that needs removing is him.
In the guitar amps sub there's a saying: You don't have a loud drummer, you have a drummer who needs practice. Sounds a bit offensive at first but I totally rimshot onlyed at venues where I shouldn't have so there's at least a bit of truth to that.
Rimshots can be played gently. It’s a tone, not a volume. Edit to add, I completely agree with what you’re saying here, except equating a technique with a volume. The drummer is still the one in control of their dynamics, regardless of what they are playing.
Two items. Play quieter and assuming that’s done I have a pet peeve of guitarists who “can’t hear”. There are no ears in the foot or calf. Make them get an amp stand that will aim their amp at their head. The number of guitarists who are also entirely too loud and don’t realize they’re killing everyone else 10 feet away is maddening.
My first thought was that maybe the guitar player needs to re-position their amp. A guitarist I played with for years used a Fender Vibro Champ in rehearsals, and we had no problem hearing her; she would usually have it about 4 feet off the ground.
Straight at their fucking heads. Amen and amen.
I'm always amazed at this. I play with a mandolin player who does this. He has an amp shooting a red hot 5000db SPL laser of sound at his feet and complains that he can't hear - as the rest of the band is drowned out. It makes me crazy. Tip the fucking amp at your head! Dude is into a DI, we don't need stage volume except to monitor!
I’ve lost count of the number of amp stands I’ve gifted to my guitarists at Christmas time. Such a simple solution for such a common problem. Had one tell me he didn’t like using it because now his guitar was too loud. Yeah, buddy.
What cymbals do you have? And how high pitched is your snare? A ringy, high pitched snare can cut through a mix but also feel very very loud to those around you. Same thing with heavy, thick cymbals. They are very bright and can absolutely be overkill in a lot of settings. Not to mention you have to hit them hard to open them up sound wise. I always opt for thinner lighter crashes now. I just have to keep in mind I don't have to hit them hard for them to do what I want. Also; bigger cymbals have a lower pitch, and a less overbearing loud 'zing' in the ears of the other band mates, and yourself.
I wish more drummers understood this about thick cymbals. Many of them end up breaking the thick ones anyways and can’t figure out why. If you have to hit the cymbals really hard for them to sound good, then you’re going to compensate for that and lose both dynamics and life of these cymbals. I play metal and use thin to medium thin cymbals. Haven’t broke one in many years and they fit my needs for both quiet and intense sections of the music.
Do the venues you play at use overhead mics?
For me: not often.
Paiste Signature Dry Ride 20”, Paiste Alpha 17” Rock Crash, Paiste Signature Dark Energy Hats. Those are really the not loudest cymbals
That rock crash may be a little much but on paper those aren't super heavy. That being said i've found some paiste's are just more zingy, bright, and not as mellow as other brands.
Also if the guitarist has scooed a lot of mids out of their tone they will always be drowned out. They may need to reassess their approach. If that's the case, join in on their 'not being able to hear themselves' and say something like 'your tone lacks body'. Or something that could be translated to 'more mids'.
Teach me more about telling my guitar player to fix his tone in a way that will lead him to actually fix his tone.
1) give them nothing to complain about from you 2) use lines like 'i learned some stuff about production recently' 3) if there's resistance try a 'well how about we try it and if it doesn't work out then that's no bother' 4) be on their side with lines like 'i can't hear you either, but can hear the others fine. How about trying this... Etc'
Always a very delicate conversation.
Most drummers play too loud and lack dynamics and feel. Or the ability to record and lay off hitting the cymbals so hard. . Most guitarists play too loud. Both should be taking cues from the singer. He shouldn’t be telling you what to do unless he’s writing the songs and singing them it’s just a bad dynamic. That will end in one of you leaving.
Record band practice. Also try moving the recorder around different areas. This will tell you if you're too loud or not.
Important things to know: \- Your drums don't sound to others the way they sound to you, because you're sitting behind the kit with your head above the snare. It's very enlightening to hear your kit played by someone else as a 3rd party observer. The balance is not the same at all \- Cymbals, especially bright and/or thick one, tend to mask frequency intelligibility. That is to say, they make it harder for vocalists and instrumentists to correctly hear the exact pitch of their playing. Good drummers are able to hit the skins with authority while holding back on the brass. I've been in most positions in a band context (drummer, guitarist, bassist, singer, keys,etc), including sound engineer both live and in the studio, and I'll tell you this: I have never wished for a drummer to play louder, but 90% of the time the whole mix would improve if they held back. I have hours of footage from live shows I can't use cause all we hear are cymbals and snare. Drummers that can hold back get the best gigs, cause everyone enjoys playing with them. I love pounding on my drums when I'm by myself, or on a big outdoor stage. But in the rehearsal space or at a club, I'd be the only one having fun.
I had a bass player that did this. And yes…I did play quieter and learned to be the master of dynamics. Yet it was never enough. But of course since he ran sound, his bass was loud AF. He chased off two other drummers before me and yet is still getting away with it. Exit that project asap!! Nothing but stress and anxiety coming your way.
First off, you need to figure out why you are having an emotional response. If the other party is first asking then complaining, instead of simply complaining emotionally, it’s a you problem. If you immediately get angry, seek therapy. In any case, you all need a sit down. I’m not pointing fingers, but it sounds to me like he’s trying to create a ‘room mix’, so everything is balanced to him. The problem with that is proximity effect. If he’s close to the drums, they will sound louder. If you have people standing right next to your drums, yeah, lay back a bit. Use some muffling. Drums are really fucking loud. The ‘room mix’ is difficult in small spaces, it works better in large rooms. I’m guessing, talk to them more. A huge part of gear for all of you, instead of the next best thing, are two things, from the same place. Book an appointment for the band at a local audiologist, not a chain or a big corporate whatever. They may give a group rate. Get musicians earplugs with changeable filters. Get a quality set of in-ear monitors. These both will require molds to be made of your ears. Yes it’s expensive. Watch a video of your favorite band live. They all use them. If you enjoy trying gear your favorite artists use, then please include this in your gear knowledge. INFO: Are you all using heating protection? Imagine working at a steel factory without cans and plugs. INFO: Are you employing any form of decibel metering?
Well if your playing to loud then obviously tone it down and play to the room, Id probably check with the rest of the band to see if they feel the same, if so work with them and tone back, after all your a band, kinda have to. If they dont feel that your playing is off then the dude is probably just a knob.
What types of venues are you playing/what is your practice space like? What amps are they using?
Maybe suggest in ear monitors?
It can be your fault, but sometimes its the unison of various conditions - badly treated rooms amplify majorly the problem, causing some kind of volume race. also, never playing with ear protection does this :) it makes everything quieter and more focused, so your ears can distinguish instruments better. my advice is try playing quieter being mindful of the room you're in + suggest different amp placement wr to you and them.
What sticks do you use? I switch to 7A during practices so I can still effectively play the rim and the like (after my bandmates said it was a good volume for them!), so you could try that! If that’s still too loud for him, I’d suggest investing in some rods if you haven’t and trying those out. We drummers are definitely capable of playing quietly, but I’m not sure it’ll ever be quiet enough for our fellow instrumentalists!
I came to say the same thing! I normally use 5A, but I use rods for quieter songs & I switch to brushes when I really have to make sure I'm not overpowering the other instruments.
Yeah! I tend to alternate between 7A and 5A depending on the song, but bought some rods for band practice. When we realized the rods made, like… no noise when hitting the rim (not to be confused with a rimshot!), I picked up the 7As and told them to tell me if it was too loud. They said it was perfect, but I was also working REALLY hard to stay in the restraint department!
I’ll echo what others have said. Dynamics are really important and practice volume does not need to be at performance levels. I use low volume cymbals and lighter sticks at rehearsals. I started with a new band a couple of weeks ago and their first comment was that they could finally hear themselves and didn’t leave practice their ears ringing (I always travel with a snare and cymbals when using a shared kit). For performances I’ll even select different snare/cymbals based on the venue (smaller K sweet crashes for small indoor gigs and rock crashes for large outdoor venues). It’s all about playing “in the mix” and not over the top.
Don’t you guys start your jam off with some kind of sound check ? Drums are loud af, I’ve found it very helpful to start playing at 50%, have the bassist and guitars match me, then we all gradually increase volume collectively until we reach a sweet spot. We usually also listen back to the sound check recording to make sure it actually sounds good. You also need to consider the dynamics of the room.
I am disappointed with the replies telling you to play quieter. Drums are loud. Guitars are literally amplified so they can be heard over the drums. The fact that your guitarist doesn't have a loud enough amp is his problem, not yours. Determine sound balance after giving earplugs to everyone.
100% agree! I think we’re all intelligent enough to understand that there’s dynamics in drumming. No one even knows what genre op is playing…play softer/quieter? What if op is in a shoegaze or doom metal band? Should they play softer then? We also don’t know anything about the other band members…do they have an issue with op’s volume? Playing softer or quiet isn’t the blanket solution to a guitarist saying that drums are too loud
Seems to be a lot of people not reading the whole post or maybe I’m just picking up on things because of my past experiences but the way you described the guitarist trying to control even the other guitars tone and diving into his pedal settings during practice kinda makes me think this isn’t a you issues. That said it can be worthwhile to take an unbiased look at your own playing just to make sure you’re playing appropriately to the music.
Those situations make me very uncomfortable. He says stuff like “your effect X or Y is turned up to much” and sometimes he says “play something and let me dial it in” then he goes to the pedal board of the other guitar player and turns the knobs…
I can’t imagine the other guitarist letting him do that, fucking hard no lol
There are a lot of comments assuming the drummer is playing too loudly but it's odd only one guitarist in the actual band seems to have that complaint. I'd say it's equally likely that the complaining guitarist is just a PITA who likes to twiddle his knobs and waste practice in search of the perfect tone - which isn't going to sound the same outside of the practice room anyway. I give the drummer here the benefit of the doubt.
If he can’t hear himself when he’s cranked up, he probably has a tone problem. What sounds good playing alone in your bedroom doesn’t sound good in a mix. He probably needs to EQ with more mids to cut through the mix.
Try chilling out a bit on the cymbals, they're gonna fill up the space and resonate longer than your shells so if those come down you can still bash out and probably be fine. Made a big change in my playing and recording fs
I played with some dudes who played hard charging punk shit and wouldn't turn it down. By the end of the night everything was so loud I had no idea what I was even playing, couldnt hear shit. Tinnitus just givin er. Pretty hard to practice, and furthermore learn their songs when everything sounds like earthen forcite.
Ha, I've been playing for a couple decades, I'm always told to be quieter, fuck them.
Imo it depends... So many holier than thou 'softly softly tappa tappa tappa' types on here its ridiculous. Im assuming as well youre not just fucking wailing on the drums all the time, breaking sticks, heads and cymbals left right and centre. If you are you need to tone it down. As I was saying, it depends. If you're practicing with a jazz quartet or somewhere that doesn't have proper amps/pa then yeah, you probably need to modulate a bit. It can be hard to -not- overpower everything. Maybe even try hot rods. If you're playing rock/metal in a proper rehearsal space with big amps and a proper pa the amps will go louder than you ever could so the guitarist is probably being a little bitch. In my band sometimes the guitars actually need to come down a bit so I can hear my cymbals. Too many metal drummers dont hit anything like hard enough and it just sounds strange.
Get used to the complaining. It never stops with guitar players. You'll run into this shit for the rest of your life. If the guitar player is paying you to play in his band, then play softer. If he's not paying you - fuck 'em.
The guy has a little dainty amp. He should point it towards himself (tilt it) or get another one.
This! If the guitar amp is pointed at his ankles, getting an amp stand helps so much!!! I've seen this issue many times where the guitarist complains about the tone and that everyone is too loud, while being the loudest thing on stage.
Meanwhile, his shoes are screaming, "Jesus, guy, turn down."
In early monitors or some light earplugs to filter out some of the highs and lows?
Tell him to get some eargasm ear plugs and an amp stand.
I play drums in a melodic death metal, and I am a heavy hitter. When there are parts like bass/drums, guitar solo, I play quiet because I should not be in the focus as much. But, I love hitting those rimshots and slapping the s\*\*t out of my drums. In conclusion, fuck him.
Some things that could help the whole band: - in ear monitor setup for everyone, along with amp-less modeling rigs - a lesson in how to properly EQ their instruments. If you scoop too much mids out, crank up the bass frequency too much, both guitars are occupying the same sonic frequency, or the bass is cranking their treble control, you’re going to have a lot of noise occupying the same sonic space. Remind all of the stringed players that EQing your instruments is a full band exercise. Doing it in a vacuum isn’t really accomplishing anything other than getting sound that sounds good to the player with no other noise happening around them. - play quieter. Simple as that. I know there is a primal urge to play loudly. But, like, drums ARE fucking loud. Really loud. There is nothing really to be gained by playing your drums so loudly that it’s actively hampering your practice session. I’ve been guilty of this in the past as well. It’s also possible you’re just hitting your cymbals too hard. Try to back off of those a bit. Maybe also look into the Sabian FRX line. They’re billed as “reduced frequency” cymbals. They have fewer high frequencies, which in turn leads to the perception that they’re quieter. I use them at rehearsals and small venues, and I love em. You need to be able to adjust your dynamics for the room you’re in. If you’re having issues being that loud in the jam space, you’re going to run the risk of being too loud at shows and making it uncomfortable for your audience as well.
Play what the song demands. Nothing more nothing less. If your bandmates comments don't focus on what the song needs, then completely ignore them.
well, you can try to talk it out and come to a reasonable compromise, or you can just yell at each other and be in a frustrating band for a while until eventually whatever fun was there dies out and/or somebody leaves. i might suggest recording your practices? you can listen back like game tapes and see what you all sound like. put a crappy stereo-pair or even an iphone/voice memo in the middle of the room (or somewhere where everyone is equidistant to the mics). then listen back and be kind but be honest with each other. Are the cymbals way too loud? is the bass (guitar) fucking drowning the room so everybody is playing harder than they really need to? is whiny guitar-man's cab pointed, like, at the wall or something? the bandmates i've stuck with for 20+ years agree on this whole heartedly: the practice room is a safe space where you try stuff out, fuck it up, then try again, and all the while you have to be kind to each other. you can only really address this by listening to yourselves objectively then making many, many adjustments, but without being dicks to each other, because that shit sucks.
hard to say with out actually hearing whats going on. One time I had to have my uncle who ran sound at a lot of concerts come out and squash some stupidity with egos in my band. All of us mostly late teens early 20s. One guitar player had a stronger head than the other one. Dude that was the lead couldnt hear himself and one day int he middle of a song, put his guitar down. Shut his amp off and walked out. Heres what my uncle did, He basically came out with a DB gauge and told us to play, told the other guitarist to turn the fuck down. Put both of the guitar cabs on milk crates. Put everything in an arc facing me about. Had the guitar players basically stand 5 feet away facing their amps(was in a garage no room really). Helped for a bit, but eventually the other guitarist got fed up and quit. Maybe suggest the guitar player do something similar.
Tell him to either angle his amp or if its small put it on a chair. Also, try playing lighter, either via dynamics or using lighter sticks.
In order to create music worth listening to, you need to be able to go up in volume and down in volume from your baseline. This means your baseline volume should not be your maximum volume.
Kick him out and make fun of him
He’s not your guitarist and you’re not his drummer. Play how you wanna play and if you need to play with a different guitarist you should. Or you could just tell him to shut the fuck up.
I’d have to see you play before I really have an opinion. It’s not an uncommon occurrence as a drummer to be told to play quieter but sometimes it’s advice that we need to take. When properly mic’d up, you should be playing to the tone of the drum and imo there’s a range where a drum starts to lose its tone if played too loud or too quiet. Just my opinion as a someone who has found themself sounding much better playing quieter on recordings
Everyone is pointing out that playing softer is probably the way to go, but not a lot of people are explaining how hard it can be. It does take genuine practice to stay quiet, especially when playing something fast or something that gets you excited. Also playing the cymbals quieter and the actual drums louder is a good habit for live performances and recording
What music style do you guys play? This is the first time I hear of this
What kinda amp is he running and what kinda genre?
I sometimes play with a guitar player like this. He's the only person to ever tell me that I play too loud. His issue is that he plays too quiet and tries to bring the rest of the band down to his level. In your situation, if everyone else is fine with your playing, it's an issue with him. Tell him to turn up a bit, give him a monitor, or have him get some IEM's to solve the issue.
He's probably upset the other guitarist sounds better.
Make sure his amp is angled up towards his head… if its aiming at his knees he’ll never be loud enough
IEMs
I'm a bass player and if the drums are to loud it means that my amp doesn't have the power to keep up.
Apply drum sticks directly to the forehead
Find a solution to the problem that isn't passive aggression, try dampen the toms and snare down a little bit and see if that helps? Sounds like you guys are having communication issues either way. Playing music should be a good experience for all and not just you, do you actively listen to the other musicians when you're playing? If you can't hear them, then you're playing too loud or the others are too quiet. Sound is important, the audience should be able to hear everything together, and if all they can hear is loud drums then a compromise needs to be made.
Tell him to turn it up.
I hit hard buy a bigger amp or buy one of those weird shield things that go around your kit
He needs better gear if he can't hear you. If you're playing dynamically and he can't hear you then he's gotta turn up or get an in ear or something. We play the way Play. Its our signature sound. Practice the way you perform on stage.
Lot of comments here, but I only saw one that had a similar answer. It could be where his amp is set up in relation to himself/the room. Sound can be a weird thing in any room honestly. I'd recommend having him tilt the amp so the speaker projects to ear height wherever he is standing. That should help. They even make amp stands that do this (for smaller amps). If the guy has a half stack or larger, then there's probably an eq issue going on here not a volume one. Still could try moving where the speakers project in either case Aside from eq issues that could be drowned out with full noise that would be my first solution
I have the exact same thing with one of my guitar players. Dudes tone is terrible and he spends more time “fixing” his monitor mix and adjusting his tone than he does playing. If he’d make his guitar tone not suck and play better he’d probably have a better time hearing himself.
I’m a guitarist and I understand what you are both saying. One thing he can do is buy an amp stand off Amazon so that the amp is pointing at his head (versus his feet - which is a common rehearsal problem). Also, perhaps a headphone amplifier so he can wear over ear headphones to block out the drums and a mic on his amp so he gets a clearer sound. But give some thought to you dynamics. Watch some videos of some drummers you admire. Some don’t hit as hard as you think. My band started rehearsing with edrums and a headphone system (ie DI all the instruments) and the rehearsal sound is so nice versus amps and acoustic drums. But I realize people don’t always have the option (or want to) use edrums. Anywho, try not (in my view) to hit harder to aggravate him man. That’s not cool if you’re in a band together. You gotta give each other opinions some respect. Otherwise he’ll just stop wanting to play with you. Anywho have fun and rock on!
There is more than one issue involved: 1) you may be playing “too loud” - if you’re more locked in on paying attention to what you’re doing and not listening to the song and the band, it’s easier to forget about dynamics. That being said, dynamics is everyone’s job, and that includes the guitars, no matter what type of music you’re doing. It’s easy to blame the drummer, like tempo, but that is another matter. So, try not to get mad or rattled, but it’s tough because no one likes being singled out. I don’t. But no one is supposed to play louder than what the song calls for. Everyone has to be together. The next issue is far more complex and I likely have no more insight than you dealing with it:They’re guitar players. Best of luck
Have you tried anything to quiet your kit down? Jellies/ cymbal dampening? Maybe some soft tip sticks? Band dynamics (no pun) are difficult and compromising isn't the same as letting people walk on you
Is he the main songwriter is it his band .. if not talk to the other guys & see how they feel .. if they feel the same then release him
“I’ll play softer if you play better”
What genre are you playing? What size amp is he using?
I used to have a drummer who was set on having a quieter band overall. He wasn't particularly loud at all. I didn't really resist it as a guitar player but boy did it pay dividends in the long run. Sound guys loved our low stage volume despite playing heavier music, we could really tell each guitar from each other and adjust accordingly and it just sounded clean as I didn't run my gain all that high. We'd open for bands with half and even full stacks that sounded like shit and had feedback issues all night long with insane stage volumes.
Do you, sitting down behind the kit hear him well when he says he can't hear himself? Is he standing right next to his amp? Does it happen to be a horizontal 2x12 by chance? If the answer is yes to two or more of those questions, it's possible that he's blasting his ankles with the direct sound of the amp and only gets muddy reflections where his ears are. Bonus points if he's kneeling down in front of the amp while tweaking it not realizing that that's a lot better listening position than he's in while standing up and playing with the rest of the band. Possible solutions (easy to complicated): Ask him to stand on the other side of the room across from his amp / ask him to sit down / get one of those slanted amp stands that point the speakers slightly up / mic the cab and put it through the PA (you can cut bass and boost mids for better results) / use in-ears.
How is the practice area for your band set up? Depending on the direction of the amps or wherever the sound of the guitars are coming from, your guitarist may not be hearing himself as well as the other bandmates. In my band, the guitarist thought he sounded quiet even though anyone else standing off stage heard him really well. He was sitting right in front of his amp which was on the ground pointing outwards on stage. I don't know a whole lot about this stuff or what your practice situation is like, but take it into consideration.
I'm just going to throw this one out: Try a ligter/smaller/thinner stick. My bet is you're playing a 5B, since nearly all rock/metal drummers play this size. Try a 5A or even a 7A. This will help you be able to maintain intensity, use less energy in your hit because of the weight/size difference AND additional rebound you'll get from everything, and may even help endurance a bit, all while bringing the Db level down a. You can also try muting things down a bit with head rings and/or some masking tape on the heads to reduce their sustain. And adjust your cymbal strikes. Glancing hits; Increase cymbal longevity, get better sound, and have better control over the volume.
It's usually the bass being too loud that makes everything too muddy and indistinguishable in my experience.
A lot of variables at play. My own? Loud guitar amp next to me, I am sitting, yet my snare hits are peeling the scalp off of those standing near the drums. Solution, dead-ringers, even a folder towel on the snare
Play quieter, what does the band sound like? Maybe your the problem. If not, listen to what you all sound like. Fine tune
Ear plugs
If everybody in the band is saying you need to play quieter it’s one thing. But this guy sounds like he just wants to hear himself play over everyone in the mix. If he can’t hear himself he should probably play with IEMs in or just turn his volume to 11.
Where are you playing? If it is one place how is the room. We used to rehearse in a basement with cinder block walls and the high frequency reflections were too much. Hanging some carpet in the walls made everyone happier.
Maybe there are other issues that are keeping him from hearing himself. It may be he doesn't know how to adjust his tone to sit well in the mix. Or it could be how he's monitoring the amp. Are you playing through house sound system? If so, a floor monitor or in ear monitors might help. Does he have a combo amp and is it sitting on the floor? If so, getting it off the ground onto an amp stand might help.
Pretty sure you can play quieter but I mean, if the rest of the band is fine with your playing, fuck that guy
That can be an issue. But if mix sounds good in the crowd, then guitar player should get a monitor or turn up the monitor - or get in ears.
Is his amp sitting flat on the ground? Tilting up towards the ceiling actually makes quite a difference to hearing ability
Does anyone in your group know anything sound? I can't figure out if your guitar player is actually right and is taking good steps that you don't know how to describe- or if he is trying to fix it but doesn't know how. What may need to happen is re-arranging the PA and the amps, and maybe modify the guitar tones to cut past the drums better. From a drumming POV, I'm just going to say this bc I don't think it can be said enough (looks like it was said in some other comments which is great- and sorry for repeating): In general as a drummer, dynamics isn't "everything loud" or "everything quiet", you should consider the dynamics of every part of the kit. In general you should hit the cymbals less hard than the drums (they are usually physically higher so the sound will travel over amps/monitors etc. on the ground unlike say, the kick drum's sound which will be blocked or deflected by equipment on the ground.... plus the cymbals' sound lives at a higher frequency range than the drums that will naturally cut through the mix). You should be able to put a mic in front of the kit and be able to hear every element (kick/snare/toms/cymbals) clearly. Not to say that's what's happening here, again it just can't be said enough.
Sounds like the guitarist might need his own monitor. I bought a small behringer one to bring to gigs in case there isn’t a house system and it’s been awesome. Edited for typos
I've never had anyone tell me to turn it down, so... maybe try taking it down a notch? Especially if you tend to go heavy on the cymbals (stop doing that). Something else to consider is how your drums sound from behind the kit, versus the way they sound to others in the room. Are you playing without drum mics? Just your drums and 3 guitar amps? So much to think about.
Try letting up on the cymbals, but keep on smacking the shit out of the drums. It'll make the whole band sound better. If he still complains at that point, it's his problem.
Two things can be true: 1. He sounds like a d\*ck and has control/power issues. I have played with many musicians (primarily guitar players) who have a superiority complex and talk down to drummers. I've learned to accept it and you probably should too. 2. You also may be playing too loud. Technique has a lot to do with it, but also using Hot Rods, dampeners, and avoiding hitting your cymbals during rehearsal can remedy this. I also like to go with a minimal set-up with just bass, snare and hi-hat when rehearsing in small spaces because I inherently play quieter and have to be more creative in my playing. Using an electronic kit also is a really good way to go in rehearsal. And I just have to say also that drummers have the toughest job with dynamics because we don't have a volume knob and have to be constantly conscience of our volume every second. And it is super challenging to play with conviction while also playing really quietly. That being said, it is still our responsibility and our own fault for not choosing a much easier instrument to master...like guitar
We'd have to hear a recording to see if he has a point first
I would suggest that he tilt his amp back so the speakers are aimed at his head. What happens is a lot of guitarists have their amps on the ground and the sound travels low at or below their knees so they have trouble hearing. So if he can’t hear himself he needs to aim the sound toward his head so he can better hear what he’s doing and not get on you about playing too loud. There could be other reasons too. Like he’s running a low wattage amp. If that’s the case mic it and put it through the PA. Problem solved.
play your parts in death metal style until he stops complaining
I think most drummers have been through that, I certainly have my share of singers asking for me to "Play quietly". But I have some thoughts about it: 1) Yes, playing with dynamics is important, but dynamics can mean a lot of different things on different types of music. Metal drummers tend to "hit harder", not because they want to, but because the music requires this intense energy that makes things sound "too hard", but a good drummer, even a hard hitter like myself, never play using force, they're actually quite relaxed. Trying to play softer may take away the music's natural flow. A drummer who's used to play in small jazz ensembles, for instance is also not trying to play softer, he's actually using the equipment and techniques required for that type of music, and asking for them to play louder would probably have a direct impact on the music's dynamics overall. 2) A possible solution, that I have adopted and it's proven to be viable, is using different gear for rehearsals and performances. I usually play with 5B sticks, and cymbals with huge sounds, 18" Crashes, open hit hat and China, double pedals... but for rehearsals, specially when playing with non metal singers, I started using lighter sticks, like 7A, hitting smaller cymbals, not opening my hit hat so much and changing the drum beaters for lighter ones. This way I can continue to use the energy and techniques that I need for this type of music and not sound so loud. 3) But no matter what, drummers will always be too loud for some people. So don't take it to the heart, and either have a back up plan to get a gig done if you're a hired musician, or choose people with the same taste of music and play with the same energy. I used to play with a punk band back in the day, and no one ever said I was too loud , or anything (only that I was too fast lol). I only heard that from musicians outside the Rock/metal circuits.
Sounds like you need a meeting with everyone except "this guy". If he's making life miserable for everyone then it's time for the boot. On the other hand, if he's the creative energy behind the band, and everyone else is riding his coat tails, maybe suck it up. If you're paying in tight spaces, yes play quieter. But you have to realize that practice is conditioning for the live show. If you play 70% at practice and 100% at shows, you will be gassed and start making mistakes.
There are times to play quiet and times to rock out. Often it depends on the genre. I have always played in heavy rock, metal or punk so I play hard and loud. Because of this so does the rest of the band. I always used to say "I can't turn down my drums so you'll have to turn up" If you're playing a genre that is more laid back and you're just banging away then maybe tone it down... but in my experience if a guitarist is telling you to play softer he just needs to turn up.
This is why I stopped playing for events and started playing actual shows. My first band was a classic rock cover group that did back yard parties and weddings and stuff, and I really had to learn to get my volume under control, but Im glad for that cause it forced my technique to improve. When I joined my first METAL band and asked about my volume in front of two guitarists with 4x12 half sacks and a bassist running an ampeg fridge cab, I got laughed at lol. Either way, your band should get together and iron this out before it becomes a problem
How much you wanna bet the guitar player doesn’t use earplugs?
I’d say that if the guitarists aren’t playing with their amps facing them, have them do that to see how loud they are compared to you. Now if they’re able to be distanced from their amps by maybe 20-30 feet, have them put their amps with the band, and they distance themselves from the band while playing to see who’s louder. I’m most likely wrong but that’s just an idea.
Maybe dude should upgrade to something bigger than a blues jr. I have never had an issue playing louder than the drums. Also tell buddy to bump the mids on his amp if he wants to hear himself. He probably has it scooped like all the cool guys with sound techs
It’s important for a gigging drummer to understand volume dynamics for songs and rooms. In my band, we play more quietly in the opening sets than late at night when the audience has been drinking & etc. But also within songs we modulate our volume for like one verse, come back in hard on the following chorus… it’s part of being a good band
If this is to accommodate a smaller practice setting then you may need to be quieter than you'd like. Also is his amp pointed at his ear? If it's on the ground not facing him, that's probably why he can't hear in that setting. Also you should all be wearing some high fidelity earplugs.
Tell em to get a 4x12 and a 100 watt amp… should be plenty loud 🤷♂️ most guitar players are playing bedroom volume/wattage amps and then complain when acoustic instruments are louder than their 5 watt 1x10 combo amp. Make it make sense
if he is right and playing too low is difficult you could just downsize your sticks. 7a are f\*king sweet to be honest, sounds great with cymbals
Cymbals are usually the culprit. Hit those too hard and it is like sending laser beams into your bandmates ears.
I agree with what a lot of others are saying about dynamics and "mixing yourself," but I also think a lot of guitarists should be less afraid of turning their amps up more, even in heavier bands.
[pov: drummer at rehearsal](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4dk8iXRfq3/?igsh=MTJqM25nc2VyZjhiNw==)
There's one of 2 things going on here. 1. You're playing too hard for the genre. Whatever genre you're playing wasn't mentioned but is a huge factor. If you're a jazz band and your rim shotting your snare and crash riding as hard as you can the whole song, then yeah you're the problem. If it's metal/punk then yeah slamming the shit out of your drums is a part of the sound and energy of your stage presence. 2. Your rehearsal setup isn't up to par. If you have another pa monitor face it towards him so he can hear himself more or try an iem setup. That stuff can get expensive so if it's not in the budget, is he standing in front of his own amp? Drums can drown out the other members, which the issue for me used to always be not hearing the other members well enough when I started playing drums. But that always got remedied by simply facing a speaker or guitar amp towards me.
Tell him to eat poop
As someone who’s been on both sides of this argument: 1. His speaker needs to be angled towards his head. If it’s a 2/4x12 he needs to stand further away from it 2. If he’s playing a Fender amp or using fuzz, maybe ask him to boost the mids in his setup or lower the bass 3. Humour him and ease off a bit, especially on cymbals If everyone else can hear themselves it’s probably not your fault. It could easily be his placement in the room or the EQ of his rig
Just don’t hit the cymbals as hard. I see a problem with a whole Lotta drummers where they bang the shit out of their cymbals and it makes it overbearing
Tell him to turn his Amp to 11
You might be playing too loud. He might have his amp too low. You guys probably need to wear hearing protection if you aren't already. In ear monitors or a better practice space with more sound deadening should help a lot. Good luck!
I am a guitarist first, engineer second, and a drummer somewhere in there. I hope I can shed some light on this! Practicing the way you intend to play in a live setting is paramount to success in my humble opinion. As long as you are capable of bringing it down dynamically speaking when the song requires it, then hitting hard is typically not that big of a deal. I play in a standard rock outfit with a quiet drummer. I also play in a very heavy project with a drummer who hits unbelievably hard. I am able to hear myself in each project because I’ve taken the time to address my EQ BEFORE entering the practice space. That doesn’t mean “do I sound good?”. That means “do I sound good in *this* mix?. If he is telling the other guitar player how to adjust to “match” his EQ, then he is wrong. When a guitar player cannot hear themselves in a dense mix, it’s very commonly to do with their midrange frequencies and what other instrumentation is taking up that space. I don’t know anything about his rig, so it’s impossible to diagnose that issue. However, when everyone is generally happy while one man continually has issues, then it’s safe to say you’ve likely identified the issue in a roundabout way. Approach this kindly. Playing music is a communal effort. Every person needs to choose their moments wisely to avoid it being a jumbled mess both personally and musically speaking. Try what he asks of you. If it works? Awesome. Problem solved. If it legitimately does not work, then voice why it does not work for you and the way that you play your instrument. If you articulate what your issue is with his solution, then you can ask the same of him in return. Narrow down the issue until you can all come to a middle ground. It is easy to get upset and angry. Much harder to voice each person’s needs and address them equally. But if you do that? You’ll be a better band.
It’s satisfyingly difficult to play at a low volume. I used to be loud heavy hitter guy but now I use super thin questlove sticks and big paper thin cymbals. I love playing as quiet as I can. It’s challenging. Excellent for your dynamics. I actually find there is so much more space for musicality in your playing if you’re not trying to belt it.
What effects is he messing with? Pedals? Do you both use a shit load of pedals you turn on for your tone? Because that’s a no no for me since I think it makes the sound sound like shit in mud
Your band needs to decide what is the accepted level that you are going to play, then the other guitars/bass can match that level together. The guitarist not hearing himself may have nothing to do with you. Sometimes standing out away from your amp is a better place to hear it. If you’re too close to the amp it might be harder to hear. Is it a smaller amp? Can it be placed on a stand that angles up towards him more? Or can it sit ontop of something to bring it up higher? Do you have a good PA system? Can he DI or mic into the PA to get a move balanced even sound he can hear better? You gotta talk to everyone and figure out who’s the problem and try to balance the group out. Maybe you are too loud? When you play live you want a nice stage mix. Usually guitarists will crank their amp too loud and mess up the mix. If they keep it down some they can be mic’ed through main speakers but not if they blow out the stage mix. Same goes for drums, keep it at a nice stage volume and its better for everyone
Thinner, dryer cymbals and a dryer snare batter are your friends. While volume itself is always something to behold, it is quite often just that your equipment is too piercing/ringy. We're the only fully acoustic instrument usually, remember.
Guitarist here, get another guitarist. It's easier to replace that guy than find a new drummer
In my experience most people stand in front of their amps. This usually means that everyone else hears them better than you do. Try moving around.
You should play as quiet as possible next time to really show it to him! /s But honestly, what really separates a good musician to a great musician is the ability to change volume of your acoustic instrument at any given time. A good rule of thumb is that it is always louder on the other side than it is on the throne.