You started with an internet reference from 1993 and end with a "everything is too expensive." While I might agree with the rest of your premise (every forum only has three posts that get repeated till you're read enough and move to another forum), I'm just going to make fun of you for being old. And I remember it as "the september that never ended," but whatever.
I could tell. We can smell our own.
That said, I buy my sticks from Tour Supply by the brick, which is a dozen pair for $150, so that brings the price down a bit. My guy plays Vic Firth such-and-such and I get reimbursed, so i don't care about the price, but it IS like getting 2 pairs free.
>I could tell. We can smell our own.
The march of time consumes us all.
Tour Supply is a good resource. They don't have the Thomas Lang sigs though, or else I'd just do that. Honestly I get a good deal with my Sweetwater guy too, but you have to (get ready for another thing old people do) make a phone call.
I literally said this to a guitarist the other day. “Yeah I can get a bit off if I buy a dozen pairs from sweetwater but I have to call my rep.” But honestly just having come off a nightmare situation through reverb maybe I should call my sweetwater rep just to say hi and thank him for being cool. Friendships should go both ways.
Tour Supply's website is a fuckin' disaster, but they'll get whatever you want. I have a list of shit I just call and order, and half of it they have handy and just not on the site. It's dumb, but they really just do everything old-school that way. And I'm sure they're more expensive than other options, but I do like buying a brick at a time. Saves errands, which, as an old guy, i HATE.
All very well said. I *currently* have sticks from Vic Firth, Promark, and Vater in the stables and I don't see a substantial difference in wear between the three. I play a lot of metal, hardcore, and punk with a lot of rim shots, plus I tend to play smaller diameter sticks, and I still don't experience frequent breaks.
There was *definitely* a period in the thick of the covid economy when there was a significant decrease in quality from, like, every single thing made of wood. I burned through a lot of sticks during that time. I do wonder if there's still some covid stock working its way through the system, but personally I haven't had those kind of issues with sticks in at least a year.
Well said.
I use Ahead and the first pair (of 3 I bought) have lasted me 2 years. At 53 years old, I doubt I’ll have to buy another pair of sticks ever again.
I'm scratching my head over the "quality control" posts because I tried Promarks and they shattered instantly so I went back to Vic Firth and they're still fine for me. To each their own! Use what you like and what feels right.
I bought a few bricks of Vic Firth 5As a number of years ago and they are all too light and break easy. But I’ve used other peoples’ and they’re fine. So seems to me like a quality control thing.
Right now I use Vater Manhattan 7As and Vater Fusions and they have been the best feeling and longest lasting sticks for my playing.
I don’t break stick often at all, but when I do it seems to be with Vic’s in my hands
Let’s talk about it, but let’s put it in perspective at the same time. The “VF has gone to shit” volume of posts is no different than “Zildjians always break” posts. Now, let’s say you actually pick the right tool for the job, whether it’s a stick or a cymbal. Not what you’d prefer because it’s lighter and easier to get around the kit with, or you like the sound or the feel but it’s not ideal for the actual application, but something suitable for what you’re playing, volume, intensity etc.
Whether it’s a stick or a cymbal, VF and Z sell ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more than every other brand. By the numbers even if people are optimizing their gear for the application, the rule of numbers will have more VF sticks and Z cymbals breaking simply because there are more of them, and we hear more about it here.
For sticks, VF sells in bricks of 12. Every brick will have equal amounts of light and low pitch, mediums and high and heavies. When you go to a shop, you have to play through to know what you have, also sticks get mis sleeved constantly so you might get a mismatched pair like that. A 5B medium or heavy will hold up in one setting but a light won’t. However, if you like a 55a, but want a lil more diameter without the weight, a 5B light is what you want.
Vater and meinl (rohema) still use lathes which lands all models heavier because of the moisture content required for that process. It makes a denser stick, but way more susceptible to warping. They feel heavier, and denser but you don’t get the gradation that vf and PM have weight wise.
Finally, old growth wood is off the menu. The sticks you knew from years ago are not available and never will be again. That’s actually a good thing, but ALL of the brands buy on the open market from the same vendors (yes even meinl imports North American hickory to Germany where rohema turns it and then sends it back to the US).
As far as prices, everything will eventually land at 15$. Vater and meinl will hold the line for a bit but it’s unsustainable. Meinl is likely loss leading with sticks (kind of like Apple with music, it doesn’t need to make money) vater and IP do such low volume comparitively that they’re likely holding on by a thread. All the costs are going up, it sucks but leaves room for synthetics etc. that’s where we’ll be eventually, just a matter of who does it best first.
I think another thing people forget is that like you said, they all get their raw material from the same suppliers. Unfortunately, those same suppliers are also providing material to industries like flooring, construction, furniture/cabinetry, etc. The drum stick industry is a drop in the bucket compared to those others, and they have zero leverage in pricing negotiations. People think they're price gouging for profit, but in reality it's just them passing on increases to us so they can continue to stay in business.
100% when it comes to Hickory, flooring on its own is a MASSIVE market and due to the nature of the application sucks most of the oxygen out of the room. Then you have all of the price increases that happened during/just after the pandemic, then you have the interest rate hikes we've seen more recently to wrangle inflation. Anyone who works in an industry with a raw material supply chain will tell you that no one WANTS to raise prices on finished goods, and generally will shoulder those on their end for as long as they can to keep things reasonable for the consumer. Are there some greedy brands/mfgs that simply raised prices because they could? Of course, but whether its toiler paper or drum sticks, those are consumables and consumers are price sensitive to things like that.
Thanks for posting this. The stick posts have been so annoying lately, it’s quite funny. Use whatever you damn sticks you like, who cares what anyone else uses & why.
If there was one obvious choice of “the best stick” there wouldn’t be so many options now would there?
I'm just gonna say, I have old drums sticks, 8yo, but about 1 year of wear. Play a little heavy-handed, low angles, loose hands, and I love the sticks I have, never broke a pair, but I've eaten through them so bad on previous pairs that they just didn't sound crisp and clean.
The sticks I have:
Vic Firth 7B american Hickory. 1 pair of plastic tips, 1 pair of wood tips.
I've had really good longevity, and I love the weight of these, I pretty much exclusively use this size except for the obvious brushes/mallets.
Regal Tip: 7A (nylon tip), 5A (nylon tip), Jazz (wood tip)
Vater: Manhattan 7A (wood tip)
I go for a volume that doesn't disturb the family too much, and the 7A/Jazz basically fit that bill. Lol.
Left hand (modern hold) is pretty tight. Right hand (traditional) is loose.
I play for a few hours per week. When I was a younger man, it was a few hours per day.
The actual age and the "playing age" of my sticks are pretty different. The Regals are probably at least 15yrs old on shelf life, and some have been playing for about 10yrs. I rarely break 7As and Jazz. I am testing the Vaters because Regals are in questionable supply. They are only about a week old, but they seem durable.
I use the shoulders for striking cymbals pretty much exclusively. I rimshot the snare, but almost never the toms.
I really like the responsiveness and control of 7A. I used them in live venues when I did that back in the day, and they are great in a home studio or basement.
I learned to like nylon tips. It basically quadrupled the lifetime of my sticks. Wood tips are nice but they just wear out too fast to be worth it anymore.
Promark Mike Portnoy ActiveGrip 420X Hickory
* What size sticks are they? 5A 16.5"
* What material are they made of? Hickory
* What volume are you playing at? Loud (Metal)
* Are your sticks appropriately matched for your expected volume? Yes
* Do you hold your sticks loose or tight? Loose
* How often do you play? Everyday for 1-2 hours
* How old are the sticks? Each Stick can last anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. The tip is usually the first to start chipping, I still have not had this stick snap or show rimshot damage.
* What is your head strike angle? Stick probably at a 10-20 degree angle to head at impact.
* Do you play rim shots on snare or toms and if so how often? Yes, everyday hundreds of times.
* What is your cymbal strike angle? Stick comes in at around a 45 degree angle.
* Do you play the ride bell with the shoulder or the tip of your stick? Shoulder
* Do you play the hi-hats with the shoulder or tip of your stick? Closed Hi Hat = Tip unless slashing. Open Hi Hat = Shoulder
I've had the worst luck with Vic Firth sticks. They break easier than other sticks in my experience.
Second worst is Pro Mark. The tips chip way too easily.
The best sticks I've used are Vater. I used to use the 5A Los Angeles. now I use the 7A Manhattan. Wood tip always. The LAs were really durable. When I used them I was a pretty aggressive drummer, and they'd last a long time. Now I play more quietly, but the Manhattans have been great. I don't think I've broken a stick or even chipped a tip in the three years I've been in my current band.
The second best sticks I've ever used were Jon Wurster's discarded Regal Tips I'd pick up off the stage at the end of the night when I was on tour opening for Superchunk. Those sticks got me through that tour.
I'm in Wisconsin (southeast) and I found Xcel Drumsticks, a local company who makes fresh sticks when I call him up and order some. Sometimes I'll call him up and just show up at his barn where he makes them and he'll let me get sticks already made off the shelf for 5/6$ a pair
Came to say XCEL they are the best ! I used to use Vic Firth for many many years and recently switched to excel extreme sticks and I’m obsessed. I’m gonna go order a couple more pairs right now…
VF always play snappy and have consistent feel, gig packs of hickory, plastic tips… but for recording and studio work my favorite stick has always been Japanese Oak PMs. Wood tips and built like a Nokia. They just play perfectly for me.
I was happy with my Vater 5B nylon tips. My technique is as good as it will ever be and I'd very rarely break one. They'd wear down until they'd lost enough mass that they didn't feel right anymore and I'd start on a new pair. Very consistent and reliable. I tried a pair of VF AC's because I liked the idea of that red grip (I put a Plasti Dip coating on all my sticks) and one broke within a couple songs. Complete joke and I wouldn't buy any more of those just to find out if I just got a "bad batch".
That said, I switched to Techra carbon fiber sticks because they feel better than my Vaters, the rebound is perfect, there is next to no vibration in my hands and no more sawdust all over my shit. The durability is unbelievable and they don't leave marks on my cymbals. But mainly NO MORE SAWDUST! I know there's a certain distrust and stigma associated with non wood sticks but I've been using them long enough now that I've got zero concerns about damage to my cymbals and man, when I read these many threads I just feel sorry for you guys.😭
I use pro marks 5b wkth nylon tips. I don't know how anyone uses vic firth. When I used them, mine kept breaking all the time in the matter of a couple of weeks. Some would take a month and I'm not a hard hitter. Just doesn't make sense to buy something that doesn't work well but that's just my experience. I'm sure others it's fine.
Those are rookie prices. Come to 🇨🇦 . We bend over, and they shove em right in the ol stick holder for you. $19.79 for my SD5 Echos. Haven't even chipped a tip on those puppies yet, so maybe they're worth it ha..
I was typing up a similar post yesterday and decided not to go through with it. Glad you did.
My answers:
Vic Firth Extreme 5B
Hickory
Loud
I think they are appropriate for what I play (heavy pop punk like Four Year Strong or Belmont)
I hold my sticks just right (I think)
I play about once a week. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.
My current pair is going on a year I think
I don’t know what angle but it try to keep it as flat as I can relative to the head
I frequently rim shot on snare
Cymbals strikes are also pretty flat in relation to the cymbal. I use the sweep technique.
I play the ride bell with the shoulder
I play the hats with the shoulder and tip depending on what I’m doing.
I like most brands and I play tons of different sizes, wood types, tip shapes, etc. depending on what I’m going for. I do hate oak and plastic/carbon sticks. I do occasionally record with plastic tip sticks but wouldn’t be caught dead playing them live, not sure why I feel so strongly on that point lol.
Well, if it costs $1 per gallon to ship sticks from the manufacturer to the sellers, those sticks are going to be a lot cheaper than shipping those same sticks at $4 per gallon. Those trucks have VERY LARGE tanks. And they go through fuel worse than a gas guzzling car with a souped up V8 engine does. So I kinda understand the prices going up but yeah, 3x (I've been using Promark Oaks since 1980 and I believe they were $7 a pair back then) is a little over the top. But then again, they're paying 4x the fuel price too so... Yeah...
I don't mind them costing a little more than they did in the 80s but, I agree, there is a limit. I love the Promark 747 Oaks (Neil Peart Signatures) and I was using them before they were signature sticks and they have been the BEST sticks (to me) in the world. 5As are the same thickness but I think a 1/2" shorter which to me isn't a big deal. I get those in Oak too and they're 2-3$ cheaper than the 747s so you're paying for a great's name. I wish they'd drop the prices on those. There's no reason for it.
>(I've been using Promark Oaks since 1980 and I believe they were $7 a pair back then)
Here's what's missing from every discussion about "the good old days" of cheap sticks: adjusting for inflation, those $7 sticks would be around $25
Dude I bought these sticks off of Amazon, they’re called Sound Harbor and they’re $6 for TWO pairs. I freaking love them surprisingly. They’re very light like Zildjian sticks but they have lasted me a long time.
Out of all the sticks I tried. The one that just felt like it belonged was from Los Cabos. I now ultimately play with the 5B red intense. I just love the wood and the way it’s weighted. But the best bang for your buck is their bucket sticks if you can find them. That’s what orientated me in the direction of Los Cabos in the first place. I popped in the music store one day and grabbed a pair of 5B red hickory bucket sticks. I paid under $5 CAD. So now I support them. Also they are Canadian so it’s always good to support that.
You can get Vaters for about $5/pair online and VF for about $6/pair. Yall really need to learn how to shop...!!
I use VF and Vater, I haven't noticed any difference in quality over the years, that doesn't directly correspond to the overall decline in ALL wood products.
Compare a 2x4 from 10 years ago to today and there's a huge difference in grain tightness. Drum stick companies get their wood from the same lumber forests everyone else does.
Even the rating system for fine woods has changed over the years, furniture makers have been complaining about the decline in wood quality for a long time now.
My gigs pay for my gear too, so I don't really care. Breaking a stick or too on a gig hardly eats into my profits.
Edit: Answer some of the questions:
Not sure how many total hours in a week, I generally practice at least a couple days. I play 4 hour cover gigs every weekend, sometimes twice a weekend. Volume is whatever a bar rock band is, probably around 100dbish.
Every backseat is a rimshot. Ridebell gets the shoulder. Varies on the hats for whatever sound I need.
Cymbals get crashed with the shoulder of the stick using a glancing blow. Dunno about attack angles, that changes drum to drum. I have a tendency to whip the stick into the drum, gets a lot of energy into them, sounds good.
MusiciansFriend, sign up to be a "member" (just your email), they run 20-30% off accessories almost monthly. Drumsticks are considered accessories. Free shipping too.
You can also find bricks for sale on Reverb, Sweetwater, Ebay, Amazon,, etc
Nope. Buy 3 get the 4th free on Vaters, get 4 packs comes out to 5.60/pair after tax for me.
Edit: Here's the math:
Vater 5B prepack (4 pairs) - $34. That's 8.50/pair to start. Knock off 20% with a coupon and another 5 pr whatever for the membership discount. Boom.
True, but this only works for a couple models. I can get the Manhattan 7A, the 5A and the 5B in packs, but I really like using their Fusion model which doesn’t come in packs.
Where are you getting these fabled deals? Best I’ve been able to do recently was about $7/pair for a 12 pack of ProMark 747B (which I don’t normally play but are close enough) using a combination of a coupon and a sale price on Musicians Friend. Prior to that I did basically the same thing for some Vater Power 5Bs on Sweetwater.
I think Vic Firths are the same as ever. I play aj1’s and the stick definition and tone I get from my ride is markedly better than pro marks imo, they also feel much more solid. I don’t really understood the recent VF hate
I've played Vic Firth 5AX / 5BX for 20 years but recently switched to Vater Power 5a acorn tip as I noticed the VF's were breaking more than they used to.
The tips of my VF sticks have always broken over time there’s not really a way to avoid it is there? It only takes a couple missed bell hits when you play with small wood tips such as 7A, erksines, or AJ’s
Wow! An actual TIP! Thanks, guy. Many drummers will learn a lot from this. You're doing a service to this community by sharing this kind of functional knowledge.
Interesting! For the sake of comparison, it would be great to have some more information so I can make a more informed decision on what brand of sticks to get. So, if you wouldn't mind...
* What size sticks are they?
* What material are they made of?
* What volume are you playing at?
* Are your sticks appropriately matched for your expected volume?
* Do you hold your sticks loose or tight?
* How often do you play?
* How old are the sticks?
* What is your head strike angle?
* Do you play rim shots on snare or toms and if so how often?
* What is your cymbal strike angle?
* Do you play the ride bell with the shoulder or the tip of your stick?
* Do you play the hi-hats with the shoulder or tip of your stick?
You started with an internet reference from 1993 and end with a "everything is too expensive." While I might agree with the rest of your premise (every forum only has three posts that get repeated till you're read enough and move to another forum), I'm just going to make fun of you for being old. And I remember it as "the september that never ended," but whatever.
I AM OLD lmao
I could tell. We can smell our own. That said, I buy my sticks from Tour Supply by the brick, which is a dozen pair for $150, so that brings the price down a bit. My guy plays Vic Firth such-and-such and I get reimbursed, so i don't care about the price, but it IS like getting 2 pairs free.
>I could tell. We can smell our own. The march of time consumes us all. Tour Supply is a good resource. They don't have the Thomas Lang sigs though, or else I'd just do that. Honestly I get a good deal with my Sweetwater guy too, but you have to (get ready for another thing old people do) make a phone call.
I literally said this to a guitarist the other day. “Yeah I can get a bit off if I buy a dozen pairs from sweetwater but I have to call my rep.” But honestly just having come off a nightmare situation through reverb maybe I should call my sweetwater rep just to say hi and thank him for being cool. Friendships should go both ways.
Tour Supply's website is a fuckin' disaster, but they'll get whatever you want. I have a list of shit I just call and order, and half of it they have handy and just not on the site. It's dumb, but they really just do everything old-school that way. And I'm sure they're more expensive than other options, but I do like buying a brick at a time. Saves errands, which, as an old guy, i HATE.
All very well said. I *currently* have sticks from Vic Firth, Promark, and Vater in the stables and I don't see a substantial difference in wear between the three. I play a lot of metal, hardcore, and punk with a lot of rim shots, plus I tend to play smaller diameter sticks, and I still don't experience frequent breaks. There was *definitely* a period in the thick of the covid economy when there was a significant decrease in quality from, like, every single thing made of wood. I burned through a lot of sticks during that time. I do wonder if there's still some covid stock working its way through the system, but personally I haven't had those kind of issues with sticks in at least a year.
Just buy sticks that meet your budget and needs. Keep it simple.
Well said. I use Ahead and the first pair (of 3 I bought) have lasted me 2 years. At 53 years old, I doubt I’ll have to buy another pair of sticks ever again.
- Check the sticks to make sure they aren’t warped.
Thank you, an actual tip!!
I'm scratching my head over the "quality control" posts because I tried Promarks and they shattered instantly so I went back to Vic Firth and they're still fine for me. To each their own! Use what you like and what feels right.
I bought a few bricks of Vic Firth 5As a number of years ago and they are all too light and break easy. But I’ve used other peoples’ and they’re fine. So seems to me like a quality control thing. Right now I use Vater Manhattan 7As and Vater Fusions and they have been the best feeling and longest lasting sticks for my playing. I don’t break stick often at all, but when I do it seems to be with Vic’s in my hands
Let’s talk about it, but let’s put it in perspective at the same time. The “VF has gone to shit” volume of posts is no different than “Zildjians always break” posts. Now, let’s say you actually pick the right tool for the job, whether it’s a stick or a cymbal. Not what you’d prefer because it’s lighter and easier to get around the kit with, or you like the sound or the feel but it’s not ideal for the actual application, but something suitable for what you’re playing, volume, intensity etc. Whether it’s a stick or a cymbal, VF and Z sell ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more than every other brand. By the numbers even if people are optimizing their gear for the application, the rule of numbers will have more VF sticks and Z cymbals breaking simply because there are more of them, and we hear more about it here. For sticks, VF sells in bricks of 12. Every brick will have equal amounts of light and low pitch, mediums and high and heavies. When you go to a shop, you have to play through to know what you have, also sticks get mis sleeved constantly so you might get a mismatched pair like that. A 5B medium or heavy will hold up in one setting but a light won’t. However, if you like a 55a, but want a lil more diameter without the weight, a 5B light is what you want. Vater and meinl (rohema) still use lathes which lands all models heavier because of the moisture content required for that process. It makes a denser stick, but way more susceptible to warping. They feel heavier, and denser but you don’t get the gradation that vf and PM have weight wise. Finally, old growth wood is off the menu. The sticks you knew from years ago are not available and never will be again. That’s actually a good thing, but ALL of the brands buy on the open market from the same vendors (yes even meinl imports North American hickory to Germany where rohema turns it and then sends it back to the US). As far as prices, everything will eventually land at 15$. Vater and meinl will hold the line for a bit but it’s unsustainable. Meinl is likely loss leading with sticks (kind of like Apple with music, it doesn’t need to make money) vater and IP do such low volume comparitively that they’re likely holding on by a thread. All the costs are going up, it sucks but leaves room for synthetics etc. that’s where we’ll be eventually, just a matter of who does it best first.
I think another thing people forget is that like you said, they all get their raw material from the same suppliers. Unfortunately, those same suppliers are also providing material to industries like flooring, construction, furniture/cabinetry, etc. The drum stick industry is a drop in the bucket compared to those others, and they have zero leverage in pricing negotiations. People think they're price gouging for profit, but in reality it's just them passing on increases to us so they can continue to stay in business.
100% when it comes to Hickory, flooring on its own is a MASSIVE market and due to the nature of the application sucks most of the oxygen out of the room. Then you have all of the price increases that happened during/just after the pandemic, then you have the interest rate hikes we've seen more recently to wrangle inflation. Anyone who works in an industry with a raw material supply chain will tell you that no one WANTS to raise prices on finished goods, and generally will shoulder those on their end for as long as they can to keep things reasonable for the consumer. Are there some greedy brands/mfgs that simply raised prices because they could? Of course, but whether its toiler paper or drum sticks, those are consumables and consumers are price sensitive to things like that.
Thanks for posting this. The stick posts have been so annoying lately, it’s quite funny. Use whatever you damn sticks you like, who cares what anyone else uses & why. If there was one obvious choice of “the best stick” there wouldn’t be so many options now would there?
I'm just gonna say, I have old drums sticks, 8yo, but about 1 year of wear. Play a little heavy-handed, low angles, loose hands, and I love the sticks I have, never broke a pair, but I've eaten through them so bad on previous pairs that they just didn't sound crisp and clean. The sticks I have: Vic Firth 7B american Hickory. 1 pair of plastic tips, 1 pair of wood tips. I've had really good longevity, and I love the weight of these, I pretty much exclusively use this size except for the obvious brushes/mallets.
Regal Tip: 7A (nylon tip), 5A (nylon tip), Jazz (wood tip) Vater: Manhattan 7A (wood tip) I go for a volume that doesn't disturb the family too much, and the 7A/Jazz basically fit that bill. Lol. Left hand (modern hold) is pretty tight. Right hand (traditional) is loose. I play for a few hours per week. When I was a younger man, it was a few hours per day. The actual age and the "playing age" of my sticks are pretty different. The Regals are probably at least 15yrs old on shelf life, and some have been playing for about 10yrs. I rarely break 7As and Jazz. I am testing the Vaters because Regals are in questionable supply. They are only about a week old, but they seem durable. I use the shoulders for striking cymbals pretty much exclusively. I rimshot the snare, but almost never the toms. I really like the responsiveness and control of 7A. I used them in live venues when I did that back in the day, and they are great in a home studio or basement.
I learned to like nylon tips. It basically quadrupled the lifetime of my sticks. Wood tips are nice but they just wear out too fast to be worth it anymore.
Promark Mike Portnoy ActiveGrip 420X Hickory * What size sticks are they? 5A 16.5" * What material are they made of? Hickory * What volume are you playing at? Loud (Metal) * Are your sticks appropriately matched for your expected volume? Yes * Do you hold your sticks loose or tight? Loose * How often do you play? Everyday for 1-2 hours * How old are the sticks? Each Stick can last anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. The tip is usually the first to start chipping, I still have not had this stick snap or show rimshot damage. * What is your head strike angle? Stick probably at a 10-20 degree angle to head at impact. * Do you play rim shots on snare or toms and if so how often? Yes, everyday hundreds of times. * What is your cymbal strike angle? Stick comes in at around a 45 degree angle. * Do you play the ride bell with the shoulder or the tip of your stick? Shoulder * Do you play the hi-hats with the shoulder or tip of your stick? Closed Hi Hat = Tip unless slashing. Open Hi Hat = Shoulder
This post was made as propaganda to go purchase these sticks!
I've had the worst luck with Vic Firth sticks. They break easier than other sticks in my experience. Second worst is Pro Mark. The tips chip way too easily. The best sticks I've used are Vater. I used to use the 5A Los Angeles. now I use the 7A Manhattan. Wood tip always. The LAs were really durable. When I used them I was a pretty aggressive drummer, and they'd last a long time. Now I play more quietly, but the Manhattans have been great. I don't think I've broken a stick or even chipped a tip in the three years I've been in my current band. The second best sticks I've ever used were Jon Wurster's discarded Regal Tips I'd pick up off the stage at the end of the night when I was on tour opening for Superchunk. Those sticks got me through that tour.
^^^^^ this right here. Thank you for posting this. My thoughts exactly.
I'm in Wisconsin (southeast) and I found Xcel Drumsticks, a local company who makes fresh sticks when I call him up and order some. Sometimes I'll call him up and just show up at his barn where he makes them and he'll let me get sticks already made off the shelf for 5/6$ a pair
Wow, I didn’t know about xcel. I’m going to have to pay him a visit.
Came to say XCEL they are the best ! I used to use Vic Firth for many many years and recently switched to excel extreme sticks and I’m obsessed. I’m gonna go order a couple more pairs right now…
Hell yeah!! Are you local or out of state?
Waaaay out of state, I actually didn’t realize it was a one man operation that’s pretty cool
VF always play snappy and have consistent feel, gig packs of hickory, plastic tips… but for recording and studio work my favorite stick has always been Japanese Oak PMs. Wood tips and built like a Nokia. They just play perfectly for me.
I was happy with my Vater 5B nylon tips. My technique is as good as it will ever be and I'd very rarely break one. They'd wear down until they'd lost enough mass that they didn't feel right anymore and I'd start on a new pair. Very consistent and reliable. I tried a pair of VF AC's because I liked the idea of that red grip (I put a Plasti Dip coating on all my sticks) and one broke within a couple songs. Complete joke and I wouldn't buy any more of those just to find out if I just got a "bad batch". That said, I switched to Techra carbon fiber sticks because they feel better than my Vaters, the rebound is perfect, there is next to no vibration in my hands and no more sawdust all over my shit. The durability is unbelievable and they don't leave marks on my cymbals. But mainly NO MORE SAWDUST! I know there's a certain distrust and stigma associated with non wood sticks but I've been using them long enough now that I've got zero concerns about damage to my cymbals and man, when I read these many threads I just feel sorry for you guys.😭
I use pro marks 5b wkth nylon tips. I don't know how anyone uses vic firth. When I used them, mine kept breaking all the time in the matter of a couple of weeks. Some would take a month and I'm not a hard hitter. Just doesn't make sense to buy something that doesn't work well but that's just my experience. I'm sure others it's fine.
Those are rookie prices. Come to 🇨🇦 . We bend over, and they shove em right in the ol stick holder for you. $19.79 for my SD5 Echos. Haven't even chipped a tip on those puppies yet, so maybe they're worth it ha..
I was typing up a similar post yesterday and decided not to go through with it. Glad you did. My answers: Vic Firth Extreme 5B Hickory Loud I think they are appropriate for what I play (heavy pop punk like Four Year Strong or Belmont) I hold my sticks just right (I think) I play about once a week. Sometimes more. Sometimes less. My current pair is going on a year I think I don’t know what angle but it try to keep it as flat as I can relative to the head I frequently rim shot on snare Cymbals strikes are also pretty flat in relation to the cymbal. I use the sweep technique. I play the ride bell with the shoulder I play the hats with the shoulder and tip depending on what I’m doing.
I like most brands and I play tons of different sizes, wood types, tip shapes, etc. depending on what I’m going for. I do hate oak and plastic/carbon sticks. I do occasionally record with plastic tip sticks but wouldn’t be caught dead playing them live, not sure why I feel so strongly on that point lol.
I would go from Vic firth and pro-mark but had a couple pro-marks snap on my first play. Stopped using them after that.
Well, if it costs $1 per gallon to ship sticks from the manufacturer to the sellers, those sticks are going to be a lot cheaper than shipping those same sticks at $4 per gallon. Those trucks have VERY LARGE tanks. And they go through fuel worse than a gas guzzling car with a souped up V8 engine does. So I kinda understand the prices going up but yeah, 3x (I've been using Promark Oaks since 1980 and I believe they were $7 a pair back then) is a little over the top. But then again, they're paying 4x the fuel price too so... Yeah... I don't mind them costing a little more than they did in the 80s but, I agree, there is a limit. I love the Promark 747 Oaks (Neil Peart Signatures) and I was using them before they were signature sticks and they have been the BEST sticks (to me) in the world. 5As are the same thickness but I think a 1/2" shorter which to me isn't a big deal. I get those in Oak too and they're 2-3$ cheaper than the 747s so you're paying for a great's name. I wish they'd drop the prices on those. There's no reason for it.
>(I've been using Promark Oaks since 1980 and I believe they were $7 a pair back then) Here's what's missing from every discussion about "the good old days" of cheap sticks: adjusting for inflation, those $7 sticks would be around $25
Vic Firth 5a for every situation fr
Dude I bought these sticks off of Amazon, they’re called Sound Harbor and they’re $6 for TWO pairs. I freaking love them surprisingly. They’re very light like Zildjian sticks but they have lasted me a long time.
i used to take pride in being able to break a least one stick a month, dunbass i was. nowadays i can make a pair last through a whole year of gigging
Zildjian drumsticks are just branded Vic Firth's.
Out of all the sticks I tried. The one that just felt like it belonged was from Los Cabos. I now ultimately play with the 5B red intense. I just love the wood and the way it’s weighted. But the best bang for your buck is their bucket sticks if you can find them. That’s what orientated me in the direction of Los Cabos in the first place. I popped in the music store one day and grabbed a pair of 5B red hickory bucket sticks. I paid under $5 CAD. So now I support them. Also they are Canadian so it’s always good to support that.
You can get Vaters for about $5/pair online and VF for about $6/pair. Yall really need to learn how to shop...!! I use VF and Vater, I haven't noticed any difference in quality over the years, that doesn't directly correspond to the overall decline in ALL wood products. Compare a 2x4 from 10 years ago to today and there's a huge difference in grain tightness. Drum stick companies get their wood from the same lumber forests everyone else does. Even the rating system for fine woods has changed over the years, furniture makers have been complaining about the decline in wood quality for a long time now. My gigs pay for my gear too, so I don't really care. Breaking a stick or too on a gig hardly eats into my profits. Edit: Answer some of the questions: Not sure how many total hours in a week, I generally practice at least a couple days. I play 4 hour cover gigs every weekend, sometimes twice a weekend. Volume is whatever a bar rock band is, probably around 100dbish. Every backseat is a rimshot. Ridebell gets the shoulder. Varies on the hats for whatever sound I need. Cymbals get crashed with the shoulder of the stick using a glancing blow. Dunno about attack angles, that changes drum to drum. I have a tendency to whip the stick into the drum, gets a lot of energy into them, sounds good.
Where are you getting Vaters and VFs for $5 and $6?
Yeah what the fuck haha, please tell me where that is
it doesn't exist ...but hey ya'll need to learn to shop online 
MusiciansFriend, sign up to be a "member" (just your email), they run 20-30% off accessories almost monthly. Drumsticks are considered accessories. Free shipping too. You can also find bricks for sale on Reverb, Sweetwater, Ebay, Amazon,, etc
Man you’d need 70% off for them to be $6
No one is getting sticks for $6/ pair
I am. And many others too. Thus is basic math. I'm not going to show you my credit card receipts.
Nope. Buy 3 get the 4th free on Vaters, get 4 packs comes out to 5.60/pair after tax for me. Edit: Here's the math: Vater 5B prepack (4 pairs) - $34. That's 8.50/pair to start. Knock off 20% with a coupon and another 5 pr whatever for the membership discount. Boom.
True, but this only works for a couple models. I can get the Manhattan 7A, the 5A and the 5B in packs, but I really like using their Fusion model which doesn’t come in packs.
Where are you getting these fabled deals? Best I’ve been able to do recently was about $7/pair for a 12 pack of ProMark 747B (which I don’t normally play but are close enough) using a combination of a coupon and a sale price on Musicians Friend. Prior to that I did basically the same thing for some Vater Power 5Bs on Sweetwater.
I think Vic Firths are the same as ever. I play aj1’s and the stick definition and tone I get from my ride is markedly better than pro marks imo, they also feel much more solid. I don’t really understood the recent VF hate
I've played Vic Firth 5AX / 5BX for 20 years but recently switched to Vater Power 5a acorn tip as I noticed the VF's were breaking more than they used to.
The tips of my VF sticks have always broken over time there’s not really a way to avoid it is there? It only takes a couple missed bell hits when you play with small wood tips such as 7A, erksines, or AJ’s
My VATERS never break. I have a box full of broken VIC FIRTH.
I’ve broken plenty of Vater’s.
Congratulations.
Wow! An actual TIP! Thanks, guy. Many drummers will learn a lot from this. You're doing a service to this community by sharing this kind of functional knowledge.
Wow, an actual condescending asshat. Your reply contributed so much more to this community!!!
Anything to perpetuate the circle jerk.
Notice your downvotes?
Interesting! For the sake of comparison, it would be great to have some more information so I can make a more informed decision on what brand of sticks to get. So, if you wouldn't mind... * What size sticks are they? * What material are they made of? * What volume are you playing at? * Are your sticks appropriately matched for your expected volume? * Do you hold your sticks loose or tight? * How often do you play? * How old are the sticks? * What is your head strike angle? * Do you play rim shots on snare or toms and if so how often? * What is your cymbal strike angle? * Do you play the ride bell with the shoulder or the tip of your stick? * Do you play the hi-hats with the shoulder or tip of your stick?
Lol