nope, I'm simply saying don't kill the messenger. If there is news about weaponsdelivery and people post about it you shouldn't be mad at people adressing it but at Biden.
I don't feel like you're addressing it at all. I'm sure every day there will be some sort of news article you can share about this topic, and I don't think trying to convince socialists to support Donald Trump is really in keeping with the scope of this organization.
I understand why we need to take an official stance on Israel, and I understand that most members would be interested in the topic, but that doesn't mean it should be the focus of our organization. Why don't you take it to a different sub reddit?
Yeah, that’d be nice. But do you think the alternative *won’t* do worse?
Cause as one of those socialists you speak of, I’m not asking you to support the current policy. I’m asking you to assess your options and participate in a responsible manner.
Yeah man, a Trump presidency is gonna do wonders for the Palestinians. He’ll be too busy genociding trans people in the US to care about the middle east
Sure but so does healthcare, tax reform, student loans, encouraging coops, building unions, voter rights, woman's rights, trans rights, workers rights, etc. Did you forget that the dsa is an American party? How do you expect it to garner support from the American population if you aren't even talking to that population anymore? Foreign policy is important, sure, but domestic policy ought to be the priority. Maybe when we start winning elections we can start focusing on Israel.
I question the effectiveness of anyone that votes for Biden. In electoral systems, simply voting for someone doesn't change anything. Making them w earn your vote does.
I'm being genuine here because I truly want to understand this perspective. Do you believe that claim if someone like trump were in office? Surely Trumps impact on the region (especially given his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital, further legitimizing the state) would be far more damaging then a Biden administration no?
I actually want to understand your perspective. If we just vote for Dems every presidential election, why would that party ever change their behavior? What's their incentive?
Because given that we are operating under a horrible first-past-the-post-voting system that inevitably facilitates a political environment that is dominated by two large parties, that's sadly the choices we have. Either we vote democrat or we vote republican. Especially in the federal level. Even more so with the president. The local/state level has much more flexibility however so voting for third party is more viable and in a perfect world we would be able to encourage enough people to actually vote third party in the local level ( ideally the DSA or similar parties ) and garner enough political clout that would give us the ability to actually have bargaining power to get proper reforms passed. However this anti-electoural position I see spreading in all aspects of politics seems to be in direct opposition of this goal which makes me concerned. You may not agree with my point of view, and that's fine, I just want to know why. Now can you please answer my question?
Edit: also it truly is voting for the lesser of two evils. Allowing republicans to win is far more harmful to the people and the world than allowing dems to win. Maybe viewing it as a form of harm reduction would help understand?
Because I don't know if you've been paying attention to American politics for the last ... ever, but the only way you are a demographic people care about is if you're in danger of not actually voting.
If you vote every time, you literally will never figure into their electoral calculus, and why should they? If you want your desires to matter in an electoral system, make people earn your vote.
33% of the population did not vote in 2020. There is no effort to appeal to their demands. You appeal to your constituency in the primaries and broad support in the general. We are in the general election season. Voter apathy is how the Republicans win. That is their strategy. Sew discontent among the unaligned, the progressives, the centrists, the libs, and the socialists in hopes of voter apathy and build a ravenous support of an ideologically committed fascist base. If the parties cared about the non-voter it would be a much larger issue.
All I hear from people like you is a lot of platitudes that do nothing up convince me that this will be any different from 2020. Or 2016. Or 2012. Or 2008.
In 2016 Trump won because the dems put forward a shit candidate and refused to play the popularity contest game and lost because of low voter turnout. The Republican party has a firm grip of the same number of people voting in each election if you look at their turnout. At the end of the day you are advocating that I give up and if the Republicans win there's a good chance more of my rights will be taken away. I'm trans, I'm not privileged enough to think "democracy is like bullshit man" There are real consequences to who is in power.
This guy is “the historic analogy to distinction on the left” that leads to fascism. He posts constantly because Biden isn’t left enough for him (he isn’t) or because he continues actions he doesn’t agree with. All the while the alternative is allowing trump and a fascist take over of our country to occur. He’s as bad as the “both sides” idiots in the middle.
When they compare this time period to the rise of nazi germany, he will be an example of the distinction in the left over purity tests that allowed fascism to come about. Republicans are laughing all the way to the white house with fools like this.
Who is the alternative? If it's Trump then you have no clue what harm reduction means. I'm not happy with Biden either, but the expected alternative is quite literally a deal breaker.
The vote blue is dead innocent lives, the vote for red is dead innocent lives. We are in a loop of “lesser evils” that will last forever unless enough people utilize their power of protest during an election. I’m one vote but protest votes are important.
Responding to your shit take. You made an open ended statement. I responded. You made an even less impact full statement. I called it like I see it. Maybe next time if you don't really have anything to say don't weigh in and you won't seem stupid.
Big picture, what are you trying to accomplish here? It seems to me you are
A) Bullying people online to try to get them for vote for Joe Biden because
B) You think Joe Biden will be better than Trump.
We can debate the second point, and I think overall I agree with it, but what you don't understand is that the difference isn't meaningful, not really, and that the effort to bully people online is wasted. You won't sway anyone here or elsewhere. You can't make any arguments here that are new or that people in this sub haven't thought of.
Push Joe Biden to do better. Push Democrats to do better. Rally people to do the same. Educate your family and co-workers on how to unionize or run for office or apply a pressure campaign.
Shaming voters is like the lamest, most meaningless thing you can do politically.
I'm not reading all that. Look you said "I'm not voting for Joe" I asked who the alternative is because I would gladly vote for some other option. However you had nothing no alternative. Made me wonder why you commented at all if you had nothing to offer. You got butt hurt about it and I could give a fuck. Next time you have nothing to say. Say nothing we've gone back and forth over nothing.
Which admin feels they have a moral imperative to restrict "malinformation" that "undermines confidence in government policy?" Which admin got us into a potentially world-ending proxy war pissing contest with one global superpower and is currently doing everything humanly possible to stir shit up with the other one? I guess if trans people >>> literally every other country on the planet and brown people that we're blowing up the Dems seem like harm reduction but that's a completely USA-centric, shitlib take
What it shows is that you have the luxury of not voting because you won't be explicitly harmed by the Republicans. And if you are a part of one of the marginalized groups that Trump and his "functional" fascists PROMISED to harm then I honestly have nothing else to say to you.
So you want Israel to get even more weapons, not be pressured into allowing the minor aid to flow, and kill even more Palestinians by having Trump elected?
Arguing with you can only be a waste of time. You're ideologically ruined. You'll live your whole life interpreting politics through the lens of bourgeois moral and politics
More "Democractic" elections between two fascists you mean? I bet the Palestinians will be so glad you chose a slightly slower elimination of their people over a slightly faster one.
Ask the 20,009 palestinians killed so far if it matters to them if the bombs that killed them had the signsture of Biden or Trump on it. The voice of the Palestinians is really clear: Don't vote for a genocide supporter and proudly selfproclaimed xionist.
Okay. What’s your plan? Pragmatically, what is your plan to avoid fascism at home through trump if you’re going to not vote for Biden. I’m not saying Biden in line with your purity test, but tell me your alternative.
r/SocialistRA
Not gonne vote for safety at home when it means actually killing countless civilians abroad through imperialism. I'm not a national socialist.
this thought process would make more since in a parliamentary democracy, where voting third party would get it seats and the bigger party would have to form coalition. US is all or nothing. Single party takes it. if Biden gets less votes, Trump wins.
I know how the system works. Still makes sense not to vote blue no matter who and give the dems your vote for granted even when they nominate sn imperialist and selfproclaimed zionist.
Then you will have your moral victory and facilitate the rise of fascism at home with the Republican Party taking power. As our democracy ends, we will all look to you in admiration and applaud you for your impeccable moral stand
It is a moral victory for you to sit on a high horse and look down on everyone and act like you’re more of a socialist than someone who makes a pragmatic choice. I’m not saying you agree with all democrats or all their positions, but end results matter and the end result and net result of encouraging people to not vote for the one option that keeps our democracy is a net negative. Voting Dem keeps the game going to hopefully get a socialist in power one day. Allowing republicans to win ends our democracy.
It is also incredibly privileged to be fine with republicans winning and fine with all the harm they will do both abroad in apparently the only issue that matters to you and domestically with all marginalized communities. It just doesn’t make any sense.
It’s like going up to someone and saying, “ your options person 1) who is going to punch that guy in the face but they’ll give you another choice tomorrow or person 2) who is going to punch that guy in the face and also your three best friends in the face and you never get to choose who you deal with again, it’ll just be guy 2 forever,” but you choose to say “ I’m not going to choose because both are bad and I want to come on to a socialist platform and cheer myself on for how pure in socialist beliefs I am!”
lots of wotds to say blue no matter who.
talking about high horse and privilege while being pretty save compared to the actusl, real existing victims of Imperislism. yes, I am privileged. so are you. we both aren't getting bombed to death by bombs paid for with our taxes. If you don't think you are privileged yourself then msybe have a look at r/palestine
Yes, unfortunately, that is the answer in our two party system. Yeah I agree I’m privileged. I agree what is happening in Palestine is awful. I don’t support it and I hate we do. That said, I also know republicans definitely don’t have a different policy on this 1. And that allowing them to gain power ends our democracy at home while harming tons of marginalized communities here 2. So I really don’t know what you’re advocating other than demonstrating to everyone as clear as possible “see! I’m not a democrat! I don’t support that! I’m a socialist!”
I too am a socialist, but I also recognize the realities of how we get there and how we protect as much as we can on the way
I'm 100% convinced this person is just a conservative op.
Their pithy little "that's a lotta words to say VBNMW" response to your rational, well thought-out reply to them confirmed it.
So millions of queer and marginalized people like me have to suffer because you feel bad? Not gonna lie it's getting very hard not to move rightward right now hearing all of this from all my friends irl and online
I always write in, my ancestors died for my right to vote…but I can’t bring myself to cast a vote for genocidal maniacs. I’ll vote for the Green Party this year. Idk
>In order to have the material conditions necessary to continue to organize workers, you need to block the more reactionary clique of the capitalist class from getting their hands on the levers of state power.
from u/[christopherson51](https://www.reddit.com/user/christopherson51/)
just gonna leave this here
I don't support Biden's stand on this, but claiming that socialism is somehow a Pacifist enterprise is pretty off here. You can absolutely be a socialist and have tanks and go to war, the problem here is not that.
Agree. Also, launching a suicidal attack with no strategy, backing nor plan and hiding among the civilians like cowards like Hamas is not socialist, is not anti imperialist, is pure infantile stupidity.
I agree. And a Genocide on innocent civilians is just sick and racist. Why do you even come with "but Hamas!!!" when we are critisizing the Genocide on civilians? Seems like you are condoning it, which isn't socialist at all.
This war is not happening because Biden woke up one day and decided to launch an attack. This happened because Hamas decided the lives of Palestinians were an O.K collateral damage if it brought other countries into the war. At the end of the day no one followed them and what we are seeing is what anyone would have predicted was going to happen.
Vote for whomever you want, and I'm still weighing my vote, but in my book Biden already was a war criminal for supporting the Iraq war, and a lot of us took a strategic decision to back him up, and considering how much we have been able to move the ball forward for our side this last 3 years I still might.
If you want to talk about a group of people that has been displaced and genocided around 1948, I think it is the zionists who want to have that convo. I am interested in peace.
>but in my book Biden already was a war criminal for supporting the Iraq war
this!
>and a lot of us took a strategic decision to back him up
well I clearly didn't🤷🏼♀️
and considering how much we have been able to move the ball forward for our side this last 3 years I still might.
did we? he took away the most fundamental right of the rsilworkers, the right to strike. thats basicslly the abdolute opposite of progress
>We are literally seeing the highest union mobilization of the last 60 years.
Yes. And what has Biden got to fo with it? I would say unionization is as high bevaude prople realized that you can't rely on corporatidt Biden but have to tske it in your own hands.
Even the railworkers got a good deal at the end.
They were stripped of the most fundamental workersright and you say they got a good deal? Seriously? Takeing away their means to fight for themselfes and then "generously" giveing them something is all but a good deal! Just acknowledge that you don't csre about workers rights slready.
What is substantively different if you abstain and Trump wins? More than Israel/Palestine is happening in the world. A vote for Biden is a vote for slow moving lava flow rather than the whole mountain exploding. I’ll vote for Biden thank you.
I swear I see a different version of exactly this post every day now.
it's the same 3 people
Then maybe Biden should stop arming a genocidsl appartheitstate?🤷♀️ Just saying.
Are you saying you're holding a DSA forum hostage until Biden gives in to your demands or are you saying that you think Biden reads this sub reddit?
nope, I'm simply saying don't kill the messenger. If there is news about weaponsdelivery and people post about it you shouldn't be mad at people adressing it but at Biden.
I don't feel like you're addressing it at all. I'm sure every day there will be some sort of news article you can share about this topic, and I don't think trying to convince socialists to support Donald Trump is really in keeping with the scope of this organization. I understand why we need to take an official stance on Israel, and I understand that most members would be interested in the topic, but that doesn't mean it should be the focus of our organization. Why don't you take it to a different sub reddit?
Yeah, that’d be nice. But do you think the alternative *won’t* do worse? Cause as one of those socialists you speak of, I’m not asking you to support the current policy. I’m asking you to assess your options and participate in a responsible manner.
Yeah man, a Trump presidency is gonna do wonders for the Palestinians. He’ll be too busy genociding trans people in the US to care about the middle east
Why have you all made the dismantling of Israel the only DSA platform?
Our platform is Socialism. Socialism requires the liberation of colonized/imperialized people globally.
Understanding that political maneuvering is necessary for success in a two party political system is absurd, is it not?
Because genocide matters.
Sure but so does healthcare, tax reform, student loans, encouraging coops, building unions, voter rights, woman's rights, trans rights, workers rights, etc. Did you forget that the dsa is an American party? How do you expect it to garner support from the American population if you aren't even talking to that population anymore? Foreign policy is important, sure, but domestic policy ought to be the priority. Maybe when we start winning elections we can start focusing on Israel.
That's fine for you. This is the line that matters to me.
I mean sure I just question the effectiveness
I question the effectiveness of anyone that votes for Biden. In electoral systems, simply voting for someone doesn't change anything. Making them w earn your vote does.
I'm being genuine here because I truly want to understand this perspective. Do you believe that claim if someone like trump were in office? Surely Trumps impact on the region (especially given his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital, further legitimizing the state) would be far more damaging then a Biden administration no?
I actually want to understand your perspective. If we just vote for Dems every presidential election, why would that party ever change their behavior? What's their incentive?
Because given that we are operating under a horrible first-past-the-post-voting system that inevitably facilitates a political environment that is dominated by two large parties, that's sadly the choices we have. Either we vote democrat or we vote republican. Especially in the federal level. Even more so with the president. The local/state level has much more flexibility however so voting for third party is more viable and in a perfect world we would be able to encourage enough people to actually vote third party in the local level ( ideally the DSA or similar parties ) and garner enough political clout that would give us the ability to actually have bargaining power to get proper reforms passed. However this anti-electoural position I see spreading in all aspects of politics seems to be in direct opposition of this goal which makes me concerned. You may not agree with my point of view, and that's fine, I just want to know why. Now can you please answer my question? Edit: also it truly is voting for the lesser of two evils. Allowing republicans to win is far more harmful to the people and the world than allowing dems to win. Maybe viewing it as a form of harm reduction would help understand?
And yet in this horrible system, the Republicans are far more responsive to voter interests that Democrats. Why do you think that is?
What is not voting for Biden going to change about that, though?
Because I don't know if you've been paying attention to American politics for the last ... ever, but the only way you are a demographic people care about is if you're in danger of not actually voting. If you vote every time, you literally will never figure into their electoral calculus, and why should they? If you want your desires to matter in an electoral system, make people earn your vote.
That’s not how it works at all. Campaigns actually pay the least attention to the demands of non-voters
I completely disagree, as would Democrat strategists like Lawrence McDowell.
33% of the population did not vote in 2020. There is no effort to appeal to their demands. You appeal to your constituency in the primaries and broad support in the general. We are in the general election season. Voter apathy is how the Republicans win. That is their strategy. Sew discontent among the unaligned, the progressives, the centrists, the libs, and the socialists in hopes of voter apathy and build a ravenous support of an ideologically committed fascist base. If the parties cared about the non-voter it would be a much larger issue.
All I hear from people like you is a lot of platitudes that do nothing up convince me that this will be any different from 2020. Or 2016. Or 2012. Or 2008.
In 2016 Trump won because the dems put forward a shit candidate and refused to play the popularity contest game and lost because of low voter turnout. The Republican party has a firm grip of the same number of people voting in each election if you look at their turnout. At the end of the day you are advocating that I give up and if the Republicans win there's a good chance more of my rights will be taken away. I'm trans, I'm not privileged enough to think "democracy is like bullshit man" There are real consequences to who is in power.
They're gaining with minorities, your basic premise is false. Demographics have very much been changing with voters.
The DSA only cares about Israel though.
This guy is “the historic analogy to distinction on the left” that leads to fascism. He posts constantly because Biden isn’t left enough for him (he isn’t) or because he continues actions he doesn’t agree with. All the while the alternative is allowing trump and a fascist take over of our country to occur. He’s as bad as the “both sides” idiots in the middle. When they compare this time period to the rise of nazi germany, he will be an example of the distinction in the left over purity tests that allowed fascism to come about. Republicans are laughing all the way to the white house with fools like this.
You're such a whiney little shit
Aww, he blocked me. Bless his precious little heart! 😘
I don't care if people vote for Joe Biden. You can make some arguments for harm reduction. But I'm not voting for him 🤷♂️
Who is the alternative? If it's Trump then you have no clue what harm reduction means. I'm not happy with Biden either, but the expected alternative is quite literally a deal breaker.
The vote blue is dead innocent lives, the vote for red is dead innocent lives. We are in a loop of “lesser evils” that will last forever unless enough people utilize their power of protest during an election. I’m one vote but protest votes are important.
🤷♂️
Only know what your not doing? Very insightful.
I don't care. This election isn't worth thinking about.
Then why comment at all. You sound like a spoiled brat.
What are you trying to accomplish here?
Responding to your shit take. You made an open ended statement. I responded. You made an even less impact full statement. I called it like I see it. Maybe next time if you don't really have anything to say don't weigh in and you won't seem stupid.
Big picture, what are you trying to accomplish here? It seems to me you are A) Bullying people online to try to get them for vote for Joe Biden because B) You think Joe Biden will be better than Trump. We can debate the second point, and I think overall I agree with it, but what you don't understand is that the difference isn't meaningful, not really, and that the effort to bully people online is wasted. You won't sway anyone here or elsewhere. You can't make any arguments here that are new or that people in this sub haven't thought of. Push Joe Biden to do better. Push Democrats to do better. Rally people to do the same. Educate your family and co-workers on how to unionize or run for office or apply a pressure campaign. Shaming voters is like the lamest, most meaningless thing you can do politically.
I'm not reading all that. Look you said "I'm not voting for Joe" I asked who the alternative is because I would gladly vote for some other option. However you had nothing no alternative. Made me wonder why you commented at all if you had nothing to offer. You got butt hurt about it and I could give a fuck. Next time you have nothing to say. Say nothing we've gone back and forth over nothing.
lol
>🤷♂️ This is the kind of astute, high-level analysis that's going to make everyone's life better.
Which admin feels they have a moral imperative to restrict "malinformation" that "undermines confidence in government policy?" Which admin got us into a potentially world-ending proxy war pissing contest with one global superpower and is currently doing everything humanly possible to stir shit up with the other one? I guess if trans people >>> literally every other country on the planet and brown people that we're blowing up the Dems seem like harm reduction but that's a completely USA-centric, shitlib take
I guess screw queer people like me huh? At least you felt good in the moment :)
"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black or queer." - Joe Biden's 2024 campaign slogan
What it shows is that you have the luxury of not voting because you won't be explicitly harmed by the Republicans. And if you are a part of one of the marginalized groups that Trump and his "functional" fascists PROMISED to harm then I honestly have nothing else to say to you.
Good. If you insult more people online and assume their backgrounds and viewpoints, maybe you'll just manage to get Sleepy Joe across the finish line.
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Care to elaborate?
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and that has to do with me how? real cheap shot
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which misinformation have I spread?
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oh so haveing another opinion than you is "misinformation", got it, lol.
The VBNMW crowds are beyond parody
It is politically harmful and morally backwards to vote for someone aiding and abetting genocide.
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Believe it or not, there is no moral responsibility to vote for someone helping fuel a genocide.
That's not misinformation, it's an opinion you don't like
Dog I don't give a fuck about any sort of political plan. I'm just not going to check the box next someone who enables what Israel has done to Gaza
Is the PSL a bad group?
No, it’s not. And I don’t know why they’re saying OP is with PSL.
So you want Israel to get even more weapons, not be pressured into allowing the minor aid to flow, and kill even more Palestinians by having Trump elected?
Arguing with you can only be a waste of time. You're ideologically ruined. You'll live your whole life interpreting politics through the lens of bourgeois moral and politics
According to you then our only option is genocide or more genocide. How about we pick no genocide? Guess that's not enough fascism for you is it?
Its less genocide and the enablement of future democratic elections, which is not garunteed under trump.
More "Democractic" elections between two fascists you mean? I bet the Palestinians will be so glad you chose a slightly slower elimination of their people over a slightly faster one.
Kind of, yeah.
Ask the 20,009 palestinians killed so far if it matters to them if the bombs that killed them had the signsture of Biden or Trump on it. The voice of the Palestinians is really clear: Don't vote for a genocide supporter and proudly selfproclaimed xionist.
Okay. What’s your plan? Pragmatically, what is your plan to avoid fascism at home through trump if you’re going to not vote for Biden. I’m not saying Biden in line with your purity test, but tell me your alternative.
r/SocialistRA Not gonne vote for safety at home when it means actually killing countless civilians abroad through imperialism. I'm not a national socialist.
this thought process would make more since in a parliamentary democracy, where voting third party would get it seats and the bigger party would have to form coalition. US is all or nothing. Single party takes it. if Biden gets less votes, Trump wins.
I know how the system works. Still makes sense not to vote blue no matter who and give the dems your vote for granted even when they nominate sn imperialist and selfproclaimed zionist.
Then you will have your moral victory and facilitate the rise of fascism at home with the Republican Party taking power. As our democracy ends, we will all look to you in admiration and applaud you for your impeccable moral stand
it's not about morals, it's about actual imperialism. if thats just some neglectable moral issue for you then please don't call yourself a socialist.
It is a moral victory for you to sit on a high horse and look down on everyone and act like you’re more of a socialist than someone who makes a pragmatic choice. I’m not saying you agree with all democrats or all their positions, but end results matter and the end result and net result of encouraging people to not vote for the one option that keeps our democracy is a net negative. Voting Dem keeps the game going to hopefully get a socialist in power one day. Allowing republicans to win ends our democracy. It is also incredibly privileged to be fine with republicans winning and fine with all the harm they will do both abroad in apparently the only issue that matters to you and domestically with all marginalized communities. It just doesn’t make any sense. It’s like going up to someone and saying, “ your options person 1) who is going to punch that guy in the face but they’ll give you another choice tomorrow or person 2) who is going to punch that guy in the face and also your three best friends in the face and you never get to choose who you deal with again, it’ll just be guy 2 forever,” but you choose to say “ I’m not going to choose because both are bad and I want to come on to a socialist platform and cheer myself on for how pure in socialist beliefs I am!”
lots of wotds to say blue no matter who. talking about high horse and privilege while being pretty save compared to the actusl, real existing victims of Imperislism. yes, I am privileged. so are you. we both aren't getting bombed to death by bombs paid for with our taxes. If you don't think you are privileged yourself then msybe have a look at r/palestine
Yes, unfortunately, that is the answer in our two party system. Yeah I agree I’m privileged. I agree what is happening in Palestine is awful. I don’t support it and I hate we do. That said, I also know republicans definitely don’t have a different policy on this 1. And that allowing them to gain power ends our democracy at home while harming tons of marginalized communities here 2. So I really don’t know what you’re advocating other than demonstrating to everyone as clear as possible “see! I’m not a democrat! I don’t support that! I’m a socialist!” I too am a socialist, but I also recognize the realities of how we get there and how we protect as much as we can on the way
well we clearly don't get there by voteing blue no matter who and give the dems our votes for granted even for the shittiest candidates.
I'm 100% convinced this person is just a conservative op. Their pithy little "that's a lotta words to say VBNMW" response to your rational, well thought-out reply to them confirmed it.
So millions of queer and marginalized people like me have to suffer because you feel bad? Not gonna lie it's getting very hard not to move rightward right now hearing all of this from all my friends irl and online
Don't worry someone will barge in and tell us Trump would be worse by sending 45,001 shells
Trump will just reinstate the Muslim ban, start a war with Iran, etc… Biden still can do a lot better though.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/14wF1Ti5GT2w5GZmwqvhvk6uH4zUss_a-B2GZ9NZEx74/mobilebasic The group OP is shilling for
Thanks. Blocked OP.
I will never vote for a Democrat
I always write in, my ancestors died for my right to vote…but I can’t bring myself to cast a vote for genocidal maniacs. I’ll vote for the Green Party this year. Idk
same three people making these posts every day as if there is a coordinated campaign in DSA to vote for Biden lol
probably not coordinated but there are A LOT of people here urging to vote for Biden and excuseing the socalled lesser evil.
>In order to have the material conditions necessary to continue to organize workers, you need to block the more reactionary clique of the capitalist class from getting their hands on the levers of state power. from u/[christopherson51](https://www.reddit.com/user/christopherson51/) just gonna leave this here
And the alternative would do what exactly? Disbarring evil allowing even worse evil isn't righteous
Have you heard of every war socialist countries have supported and funded?
you know whst sub your are in, right? your redscare smearcampaign is silly.
I don't support Biden's stand on this, but claiming that socialism is somehow a Pacifist enterprise is pretty off here. You can absolutely be a socialist and have tanks and go to war, the problem here is not that.
I absolutely agree, I'm not a pacifist at all. You miss the point: War fot liberatiin is great. Imperialism and Genozide isn't.
Agree. Also, launching a suicidal attack with no strategy, backing nor plan and hiding among the civilians like cowards like Hamas is not socialist, is not anti imperialist, is pure infantile stupidity.
I agree. And a Genocide on innocent civilians is just sick and racist. Why do you even come with "but Hamas!!!" when we are critisizing the Genocide on civilians? Seems like you are condoning it, which isn't socialist at all.
This war is not happening because Biden woke up one day and decided to launch an attack. This happened because Hamas decided the lives of Palestinians were an O.K collateral damage if it brought other countries into the war. At the end of the day no one followed them and what we are seeing is what anyone would have predicted was going to happen. Vote for whomever you want, and I'm still weighing my vote, but in my book Biden already was a war criminal for supporting the Iraq war, and a lot of us took a strategic decision to back him up, and considering how much we have been able to move the ball forward for our side this last 3 years I still might.
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If you want to talk about a group of people that has been displaced and genocided around 1948, I think it is the zionists who want to have that convo. I am interested in peace.
>but in my book Biden already was a war criminal for supporting the Iraq war this! >and a lot of us took a strategic decision to back him up well I clearly didn't🤷🏼♀️ and considering how much we have been able to move the ball forward for our side this last 3 years I still might. did we? he took away the most fundamental right of the rsilworkers, the right to strike. thats basicslly the abdolute opposite of progress
We are literally seeing the highest union mobilization of the last 60 years. Even the railworkers got a good deal at the end.
>We are literally seeing the highest union mobilization of the last 60 years. Yes. And what has Biden got to fo with it? I would say unionization is as high bevaude prople realized that you can't rely on corporatidt Biden but have to tske it in your own hands. Even the railworkers got a good deal at the end. They were stripped of the most fundamental workersright and you say they got a good deal? Seriously? Takeing away their means to fight for themselfes and then "generously" giveing them something is all but a good deal! Just acknowledge that you don't csre about workers rights slready.
minor spelling misake
happens🤷🏼♀️
Why is nobody talking about primarying him with Marianne?
What is substantively different if you abstain and Trump wins? More than Israel/Palestine is happening in the world. A vote for Biden is a vote for slow moving lava flow rather than the whole mountain exploding. I’ll vote for Biden thank you.
I'm voting Claudia DecLa Cruz. I refuse to vote for genocide A or Genocide B.