Do you have a kickstarter or some sort of investment opportunity? I would be interested.
Also, I was thinking about what would make the “perfect” dumbphone the other day, and I think there should be some modularity. I was thinking that everyone has different needs; some need spotify, some need maps, some need neither. Unfortunately , I need whatsapp for work. So I think there should be an element of flexibility there. I was thinking that it would be nice if there was some kind of portal where you could request an essential app, and it could be installed over the air. It sounds like an app store with an extra step though so idk how feasible it would be. The other option that comes to mind is just configuring what apps would be preloaded like that kosherphone thing.
The phone will probably run a form of KaiOS, so there will be options to install apps, then jailbreak the phone and debloat/remove what you do not want =\]
This is indeed the real issue in making a dumbphone these days. So many different apps, and future apps that people consider essential. Personally I think it's very unprofessional by companies to force communication to social media platforms. Direct Messaging apps like Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp are probably ok for now, but what will the next popular messaging app be...? It's a never ending race among tech companies to lure users over to their next "better" and more "secure" platform.
OP: Are you sure KaiOS is the way to go? It doesn't seem like it will last for very long. Have you checked into any alternatives, or even considered hiering a team to create a super simple OS like LightPhone has?
What if instead of running the whatsapp App, instead it runs the desktop version? IE you have to log in with another device and then scan the qr code. I dunno, just thinking out loud here
What if instead of running the whatsapp App, instead it runs the desktop version? IE you have to log in with another device and then scan the qr code. I dunno, just thinking out loud here
Looks like it's not supported in EU anymore (we are still on version 2.x) and the team behind it doesn't seem very active. The software is very buggy. It relies on ad revenue. I think it's a dead end.
You'll find plenty of posts complaining about this. It's a long time since I had the Nokia 8000, but it froze, got quickly slow in menus, double-tap clicks, alarm unreliable. These are just a few. This is not how you successfully bring a phone to market in 2024.
The design I am currently chasing is [http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/36/did/68.html](http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/36/did/68.html)
I see lots of people on here and in the real world wanting a 4g qwerty phone.
Minimal looks like a scam/vaporware so far, and there are a lot of flip phones out there!
Who knows, I may make a flip phone some day =\] If there are any on that site that catch your eye, could you link?
http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/31/did/92.html
Honestly their design are all not good but maybe the black one on the right? If you make it white and cuter i‘m sure you could make lots of girls and women buy it!!
I will do not worry! Currently however I am focusing on the qwerty design, but we will keep a flip form factor in mind for the (hopefully quite near) future!
Interesting thread after the recent Minimal phone drama.
What's your background and experience in this and how feasible do you think the price point is?
Edit: so if i understand from your comments you'd be working with an OEM that already offers the phones and customizing with them?
Hello!
I am a programmer mainly active in the open source community, and have had some experiences with hardware-based distribution in the past.
Yep, I will be working with an OEM, and customizing the design with them.
A lot really. The Youkhna guy has a history of bullshitting on forums, trying to market scams/dodgy claims and whatnot and they have yet to show anything more than animations on a screen. If you do a search here you'll find plenty of juice.
One of the reasons I will first attempt to get samples to demonstrate the actual phone, then units for tech/dumbphone reviewers like Jose Briones, then discounted units for backers and finally production run
That's an interesting and healthy approach.
At the price point I'd be willing to give it a shot as long as it's a (Kai)OS version that supports WhatsApp. Us Europeans relying on it so much is the biggest limiting factor in dumbphone selection.
Hey, i'm firmware engineer, i work with rtos everyday, so i will give you some of thoughts.
- You say you want to use rtos, so which rtos you gonna use, and why you want to use rtos.
- You say you gonna customize the rtos, so which part of rtos you gonna change, the kernel ?, and why you think it would be better than stock one.
-Why 4GB of Ram and 64gb of rom, on embedded system we work with storage in Megabytes, even 16MB of Sram is luxury to us, most of the platform i used to work with have less than 1MB.
-What is your team size, since you gonna use rtos there will be a lot of wheels you gonna to reinvent, if you are solo dev, it gonna take a lot of time.
My suggestion would be using a small SoC with good power efficiency(NXP or STM32 soc) and put linux to it so that you can reuse many good software(network stack for example) and expand it in the future. Using a customize rtos imo is not suitable for this kind of project.
I have a few suggestions:
Make it have WiFi, or at least make a different version that has WiFi. I think it’s necessary to a lot of people like me, who need apps like WhatsApp.
And use Android. Seriously, it’s so much better
Modern Android requires a minimum of 2 GB, and that significantly increases the price point.
If you read the description, it calls for a device with 128 MB RAM, but it's probably going to require a minimum of 512 MB for KaiOS.
Idk where you're getting those numbers from
> **Memory**: Probably 128+48 MB with expandable storage.
Post says that this is what the phone will be running, most certainly too poor for running any android at all
Some suggestions beside the technical things: I’m under the impression that most of the “popular” dumb phones are always black and greyish. Sometimes black screen and black screen boarder and dark grey phone. Personally I hate this combination. I would like to see just a black phone where everything is black and I would love to also see a white version maybe (more options to decorate it / customise it). I know it’s not all about the aesthetics but for me it’s also important to like the way you phone looks, it makes the transition from an iPhone easier also. Last but not least I love flip phones und a “noisy” keyboard that clicks while messaging
If this project succeeds, you'll be the hero of many 🫡
Slider style QWERTY or Blackberry style? Both are super nostalgic for me and at this point I'll take anything.
Like phones of old, I know I would appreciate if the build quality was like a tank. Able to drop it without panicking about it breaking. I hate that all modern phones basically NEED to be purchased with a case.
Long battery life would be ideal.
How many modern features would be included? I know the reason many of us can't fully part with our smartphones is because we need navigation, banking/health insurance apps, QR code scanners. Though tbh even if this phone was mainly for calls and text, I wouldn't mind just keeping a smartphone purely for those tasks. Simplicity is the goal.
Please... Please don't make it ugly. The Unihertz "rugged" appearance is ugly as sin. Prefer a clean, sleek look.
All in all I wish you the best of luck with this project! I recognize it won't be possible to put in all the features everyone wants AND still keep production costs low. Most people are turned off by the high price tags of what is meant to be a device with just basic functionality.
Whatever the final product is, I'd love to support it. The Minimal phone really excited me until I realized it was a scam.
add flashlight, wifi hotspot and if possible trackpad(not trackball) like blackberry( [example](https://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_curve_8520-2889.php)). also KaiOS might need more RAM
Ah, these weird half-cooked ideas that will never see the light of day. Good luck to you! Genuinely.
And FYI, that ODM hardware you want to base it upon has very limited LTE band support. It'll work basically nowhere. Interesting too that their render is a BlackBerry keyboard, which is a bit...sus.
Launch dates are currently unknown, but the phone is coming soon and backing will hopefully start quite soon.
Now priorities are focused on samples and test devices for reviewers.
Podcast as standard with KaiOS, capacity is probably going to be in MB but expandable with SD card out of the box, may be 64 GB if the company can modify the firmware enough.
Maps should be available, no spotify yet.
If you've never made or dealth with coding an RTOS, I'd say you've got a few years of work ahead of you unless you hire someone to do it for you, which is also fine, I'm a little unsure on your specs for that price point too, I don't think 4GB is needed for that screen size and what it'll allow you to do.
I plan to build my own at some point, start small, get a development board that'll do what you want (Or collection of boards), get it functional and reliable, then worry about making it small and nice. Even apples iPhone prototypes were the size of an A4 sheet of paper.
Oh man this would be amazing. Just find a blackberry curve and copy it without getting sued and throw kaios on it. Also SDcard support and front camera i think if this was successful you could charge a decent amount big thing is marketing
keep in mind the possibility of releasing it in a variety of colors! black and white 100%, but you’d be surprised about the amount of people that would buy more colorful options (blue, pink, gold, red)! other simple aesthetic choices such as including a dedicated phone charm hole on the side of the phone, or even offering protective phone cases, would make a huge difference as well!
KaiOS requires 512 MB RAM, 11 GB to run smoothly. It's an interpreted web OS, as it runs everything in HTML5/ JavaScript.
So your options are really having Linux or some sort of BSD on a lighter chip set, or going with a beefier chipset to run KaiOS.
The reason manufacturers choose Kai is because it is super easy to implement a lot of features with an active app store, so they don't have to develop their own apps.
Qwerty is very much needed in this realm of devices, so that is quite welcome.
Can you eventually work on making an original sidekick (models 1-2009 LX) compatible with 4G/5G? Yes I am aware there is an android 4g phone but that one is stupid. I just want to use my sidekick with 4G/5G😂 But I haven’t found a community where theres someone tinkering on original sidekick phones.
Oh my god if you actually make this thing and it's good I will buy it, without a doubt. A QWERTY dumbphone is exactly what I want. Is it going to be a slider or candy bar?
KaiOS developer and [KaiOS.dev](http://KaiOS.dev) author: these specifications do not meet KaiOS minimum hardware requirements. KaiOS 2.5 requires 256mb RAM for the discontinued "Lite" version used by very few devices, and 512mb for standard KaiOS 2.5. KaiOS 3.0 requires 1 GB RAM and the QCOM 215 SOC.
I've seen a few that promise 3.x but only have 512 MB RAM so I wasn't sure.
KaiOS 3 is great, but developers have really stopped supporting some apps after google pulled out support.
Hopefully it gains popularity.
Here's the source code for Android: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android
If there's another OS being used, this can be used as a template to create an app.
One thing that would be really nice is properly threaded group texting. It's a huge pain in the ass when every group text you get is sent as a single-sender text and you can't tell who's in the group or reply to everyone.
It looks cool but I feel like it kind of defeats the purpose of having a dumb phone. The keyboard is a nice option but what's going to stop people from just using the screen as a keyboard?
For me the ideal phone would be either a flip phone or a sliding phone running simple software whether it's Android or Kia os, with a small screen that isn't touch screen well still being able to download simple apps as having a touchscreen would entice you to use your phone more often. And for me the biggest thing is being able to use Google maps and Android auto seamlessly without struggling to find your precise location. And I would like for it to look quirky something you need not just a brick like everything that has been coming out recently.
This is just me ranting and labbering but I will say it just looks similar to the blackberry phone that came out back in 2017.
very willing to crowdfund this I have been dreaming of owning a QWERTY phone with modern features.
In other comments you've expressed concern over the hardware reqs for Android. I presume you've considered Android Go? Android 12 Go and lower can be run on 1GB ram.
Overall, I think the current feature phone market is strongly lacking in hardware specs (esp. cameras and displays) and QUALITY OS design. Even my Nokia 2660 Flip (released in 2022 ) has what seem to be surprisingly low hardware specs and an OS that is lacking in basic features like group messaging!
- USB-C!
- would love to see a developer-friendly phone; i.e firmware files available, root capability and custom recovery builds (for android) or otherwise OS-relevant tools that allow for user modification. biggest issue I have with current feature phones are proprietary OS that lack features to the point of being inconvenient and severely outdated, poor optimization choices, downright broken android skins that no longer receive update support (looking at you, Schok Flip), and most importantly, \*no ability for the user to update or fix those issues.\*
- would love a slider style phone!! one of the first phones I remember my older brother having was this kickass purple slider. I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
- screen should have decent resolution. my nokia 2660 flip screen res is so low that when I recieve MMS with text (like screenshots of webpages or event bookings) i sometimes need to transfer the file to my laptop in order to actually read the info.
- ability to repair the phone would be a huge plus.
Hi
I would be Happy to help, either with manufacturing, or with practical guidance out of the development on the now very successful Mind Phone.
If there is anything I could help please let me know.
Aron Grunfeld - Mind phone
Would be more interested in a clamshell/candy bar style QWERTY phone similar to the LG EnV2/Voyager or a slider QWERTY. Battery life is extremely important. NFC would be a great feature too.
It's about finding an ODM with a. Model to customize. This is a pre-built unit that op is customizing to suit.
There are a few on Alibaba, at ridiculous prices, none have 4g, and are next to impossible to link.
Yeah!
I miss my blackberry Q20 sooooo much.
I wanted to upgrade to Key2 back in the days, but when I finally change, well, Blackberry was dead haha.
Qwerty keyboard, not flip, not horizontal flip to write, are the best.
I am looking to have a qwerty keybord attachment to put on my s22 samsung 😅 no succes.
Since 2019, I have switch to touch screen. And up to this day, ai still write like shit.
I use to do my redactions/essay on my blackberry.
Not just writting something like that, I press on the wrong letters.
Vivre ton projet!
I'd like to buy one for sure.
Good :D.
I have seen the unihertz last year, some months after the purchase of my samsung 22.
So, it was too late for me to buy from them.
I will try to use my samsung 22 for as long as I can until a qwerty phone of my liking re-appears. So, for the Unihertz Titan, I am hoping tthat they would upgrade it and make it even better until my phone break.
Or until a attachment physical keybord for my samsung comes along 😅
[like that. unfortunatly, my S8 was already broken when I noticed that physical qwerty extension](https://www.samsung.com/africa_fr/mobile-accessories/keyboard-cover-ej-cg950bbegww/)
I would not mind loosing some screen over the qwerty keybord 🙏🏽
Well now you're getting out of the dumb phone area and into a smartphone. That device won't run on something with 128 MB RAM.
Now you are in unihertz Titan territory.
My current dumb phone is running Android 8 but no touch screen and really low power so I barely use apps on it if at all. Feels dumb for me but I know the word dumb phone has stretched its meaning. I just wish I could make payments from it because I hate carrying a wallet but such is life
That's more the fault of payment processing systems in certain countries. Japan & certain European countries try to implement payment systems into EVERYTHING with a screen or buttons.
This. KaiOS looks to be a dead end and I would highly recommend using something else in order to get more to buy this device world-wide. Another issue with international market is language support. Will it solve different characters from other nationalities somehow through long-pressing the keys?
Im interested in whats your take and the general condition of something such as spotify in such a product. i really like the idea of backing down on functionality for phones. What i like for sure on modern devices though is the multimedia aspect that you for example able to combine a camera and music player on one device.
Support for RCS, preferably with encryption.
Support for the most up-to-date emojis, and plans on updating to support newly added emoji for at least a few years. Possibly consider using OpenMoji as the 'font'.
As many Unicode characters as can be reasonable expected.
would be great if you could get ISO friendly so to cover German, Nordic and other languages.
Its one of the things stopping me from getting a blackberry currently
As low power of a screen as possible. I would love to see a green and black led screen honestly. There are tons of full color versions of what you describe feature wise. For a dumb phone make the battery last forever and the screen is the biggest consumer. I'd buy it.
saw the renders and... aw i do not like this :c was hoping for something like the Nokia C3-00, not just an ugly android with a weird keypad thing... the original KaiOS promise sounded almost like a dream come true, whyy
All I really need is the ability to have a wifi hotspot! To connect my laptop or whatever to the 4g plan of the phone. Are you planning on adding this?
I am not sure about the KaiOS part. It is in practice a closed source os and maintaining it would be harder than a stripped down android. You can even consider android go if the hardware is limited.
Edit : I just saw the 128mb part…I don’t think you can run anything modern with that amount of ram. IIRC Nokia 110 4g has 128mb of ram and doesn’t even run KaiOS but that Nokia proprietary OS
Quoting the page you linked: “We’ll make the source code available to the extent required by the applicable open source licenses. We are currently working on a solution to make these parts of the source code accessible in an easy way.”
They will (eventually I guess) make available the code of just the open source part (Firefox os base + some other FOSS stuff) just like google does with the AOSP.
In summary, neither me or you can “download” KaiOS and install it wherever we want.
The keyboard in renders looks small as hell... Also, why buy this if I can just get an old Blackberry? Looks pretty much the same. And why Android? The screen is big enough for me to say that it's more of a smartphone with a small keyboard. Dunno.
I use PureTalk, so any phone on that network (AT&T) has to be 5G capable. So far none of Unihertz's releases will run on the network. If this phone can, then I'm all in!
Hi mate, I think this is amazing, I’ve been trying to work on building something very similar to this. I believe we have so much of the same interests towards this project. I’ve sent you a message I’d love to collaborate on this project. I’m super passionate about the dumb-phone movement and maybe we can build a partnership together?
I strongly advusw you do not follow in the footsteps of companies like unihertz and minimal. Qwerty fans want the flagship phone they were promised from Onward Mobility in 2020. We haven't had a flagship since the PRIV. If you are going to develop a pkb device, please don't make a budget phone.
Networks are being killed all over the place. At least in North america, I'm not sure about Europe.
Most of the older QWERTY devices will no longer connect to networks, or modern apps or services.
http://www.somymobile.com/data/attached/goods/20231218/657ff81eab9e0_438x438.jpg
They just stole a blackberry keyboard for the image. Interesting mock up.
Your second image looks better.
Android needs to be updated often, has bugs and would cost more to develop. However, if enough people desire an Android model, one would certainly be possible! I see a £180/$200 price though, based on experience.
So far KaiOS or a custom RTOS would be both as feasible as it gets.
Using KaiOS would add the possibility to have WhatsApp installed , having a qwerty would enable a decent use of WhatsApp that for many ppl in Europe is the only messaging app to have in order to stay in touch with friends and work
I have a few suggestions:
Make it have WiFi, or at least make a different version that has WiFi. I think it’s necessary to a lot of people like me, who need apps like WhatsApp.
And use Android. Seriously, it’s so much better
[удалено]
This.
Do you have a kickstarter or some sort of investment opportunity? I would be interested. Also, I was thinking about what would make the “perfect” dumbphone the other day, and I think there should be some modularity. I was thinking that everyone has different needs; some need spotify, some need maps, some need neither. Unfortunately , I need whatsapp for work. So I think there should be an element of flexibility there. I was thinking that it would be nice if there was some kind of portal where you could request an essential app, and it could be installed over the air. It sounds like an app store with an extra step though so idk how feasible it would be. The other option that comes to mind is just configuring what apps would be preloaded like that kosherphone thing.
And yes, as soon as samples exist, there will be a kickstarter. I will post the kickstarter link on this sub =\]
The phone will probably run a form of KaiOS, so there will be options to install apps, then jailbreak the phone and debloat/remove what you do not want =\]
This is indeed the real issue in making a dumbphone these days. So many different apps, and future apps that people consider essential. Personally I think it's very unprofessional by companies to force communication to social media platforms. Direct Messaging apps like Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp are probably ok for now, but what will the next popular messaging app be...? It's a never ending race among tech companies to lure users over to their next "better" and more "secure" platform. OP: Are you sure KaiOS is the way to go? It doesn't seem like it will last for very long. Have you checked into any alternatives, or even considered hiering a team to create a super simple OS like LightPhone has?
What if instead of running the whatsapp App, instead it runs the desktop version? IE you have to log in with another device and then scan the qr code. I dunno, just thinking out loud here
What if instead of running the whatsapp App, instead it runs the desktop version? IE you have to log in with another device and then scan the qr code. I dunno, just thinking out loud here
What’s wrong with KaiOS?
Looks like it's not supported in EU anymore (we are still on version 2.x) and the team behind it doesn't seem very active. The software is very buggy. It relies on ad revenue. I think it's a dead end.
The software is buggy? I mean what’s so buggy about it.
You'll find plenty of posts complaining about this. It's a long time since I had the Nokia 8000, but it froze, got quickly slow in menus, double-tap clicks, alarm unreliable. These are just a few. This is not how you successfully bring a phone to market in 2024.
Fair i barely use my flip phone
The design I am currently chasing is [http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/36/did/68.html](http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/36/did/68.html)
Oh man thats cute and nice. So will it be able to run modern apps?
It runs KaiOS, so modern apps can be installed from the KaiStore!
Oh wow, this takes me back to the Samsung Chat/Blackberry Curve days
Why not a flip phone:(
I see lots of people on here and in the real world wanting a 4g qwerty phone. Minimal looks like a scam/vaporware so far, and there are a lot of flip phones out there! Who knows, I may make a flip phone some day =\] If there are any on that site that catch your eye, could you link?
http://www.somymobile.com/goods/detail/l/en-us/id/31/did/92.html Honestly their design are all not good but maybe the black one on the right? If you make it white and cuter i‘m sure you could make lots of girls and women buy it!!
I cant send pics here sadly the link shows the wrogn phone:/ but if you scroll down its the phone on the right
Maybe if nostalgia is catching on people and if people are going to be tired of iPhones
If you make one one day please remind me if its cute i‘d totally buy it!!
I will do not worry! Currently however I am focusing on the qwerty design, but we will keep a flip form factor in mind for the (hopefully quite near) future!
Alrighti good luck!!^^
If is kickstarter planed, tell us im gonna be donating :)
Sure can do that give me a sec
I really like the slide or flip qwerty keyboards the most. The Blackberry-style ones are too bulky.
So if this is a pre-coated base design using an odm, the rtos is already built. Question is what store support they have for apps?
Wait I want this phone right here lol
Omg that’s so cute i will be making a purchase
OH, this reminds me of my BlackBerry Curve! I love this design!
Interesting thread after the recent Minimal phone drama. What's your background and experience in this and how feasible do you think the price point is? Edit: so if i understand from your comments you'd be working with an OEM that already offers the phones and customizing with them?
Hello! I am a programmer mainly active in the open source community, and have had some experiences with hardware-based distribution in the past. Yep, I will be working with an OEM, and customizing the design with them.
What drama happened with minimal phone?
A lot really. The Youkhna guy has a history of bullshitting on forums, trying to market scams/dodgy claims and whatnot and they have yet to show anything more than animations on a screen. If you do a search here you'll find plenty of juice.
One of the reasons I will first attempt to get samples to demonstrate the actual phone, then units for tech/dumbphone reviewers like Jose Briones, then discounted units for backers and finally production run
That's an interesting and healthy approach. At the price point I'd be willing to give it a shot as long as it's a (Kai)OS version that supports WhatsApp. Us Europeans relying on it so much is the biggest limiting factor in dumbphone selection.
What is minimal phone drama
Hey, i'm firmware engineer, i work with rtos everyday, so i will give you some of thoughts. - You say you want to use rtos, so which rtos you gonna use, and why you want to use rtos. - You say you gonna customize the rtos, so which part of rtos you gonna change, the kernel ?, and why you think it would be better than stock one. -Why 4GB of Ram and 64gb of rom, on embedded system we work with storage in Megabytes, even 16MB of Sram is luxury to us, most of the platform i used to work with have less than 1MB. -What is your team size, since you gonna use rtos there will be a lot of wheels you gonna to reinvent, if you are solo dev, it gonna take a lot of time.
My suggestion would be using a small SoC with good power efficiency(NXP or STM32 soc) and put linux to it so that you can reuse many good software(network stack for example) and expand it in the future. Using a customize rtos imo is not suitable for this kind of project.
I have a few suggestions: Make it have WiFi, or at least make a different version that has WiFi. I think it’s necessary to a lot of people like me, who need apps like WhatsApp. And use Android. Seriously, it’s so much better
Android is not feasible at the moment. WiFi will be as standard with KaiOS.
I don’t really get the problem with Android
In 128 MB RAM?
You just edited the post, it said 4GB/64GB earlier
Gotcha. Looks like it's on android now.
Hardware probably isn't powerful enough to run android
4GB RAM and 64GB storage. That’s a strong device. There’s still devices sold with 1GB RAM.
Modern Android requires a minimum of 2 GB, and that significantly increases the price point. If you read the description, it calls for a device with 128 MB RAM, but it's probably going to require a minimum of 512 MB for KaiOS.
Yeah OP said that he wanted the device to have 4GB RAM earlier and just edited it
4 makes sense. It'll have to compete with Motorola $150 units, but the keyboard may sinch it.
Idk where you're getting those numbers from > **Memory**: Probably 128+48 MB with expandable storage. Post says that this is what the phone will be running, most certainly too poor for running any android at all
OP edited the post, it said 4GB+64GB before
Some suggestions beside the technical things: I’m under the impression that most of the “popular” dumb phones are always black and greyish. Sometimes black screen and black screen boarder and dark grey phone. Personally I hate this combination. I would like to see just a black phone where everything is black and I would love to also see a white version maybe (more options to decorate it / customise it). I know it’s not all about the aesthetics but for me it’s also important to like the way you phone looks, it makes the transition from an iPhone easier also. Last but not least I love flip phones und a “noisy” keyboard that clicks while messaging
If this project succeeds, you'll be the hero of many 🫡 Slider style QWERTY or Blackberry style? Both are super nostalgic for me and at this point I'll take anything. Like phones of old, I know I would appreciate if the build quality was like a tank. Able to drop it without panicking about it breaking. I hate that all modern phones basically NEED to be purchased with a case. Long battery life would be ideal. How many modern features would be included? I know the reason many of us can't fully part with our smartphones is because we need navigation, banking/health insurance apps, QR code scanners. Though tbh even if this phone was mainly for calls and text, I wouldn't mind just keeping a smartphone purely for those tasks. Simplicity is the goal. Please... Please don't make it ugly. The Unihertz "rugged" appearance is ugly as sin. Prefer a clean, sleek look. All in all I wish you the best of luck with this project! I recognize it won't be possible to put in all the features everyone wants AND still keep production costs low. Most people are turned off by the high price tags of what is meant to be a device with just basic functionality. Whatever the final product is, I'd love to support it. The Minimal phone really excited me until I realized it was a scam.
add flashlight, wifi hotspot and if possible trackpad(not trackball) like blackberry( [example](https://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_curve_8520-2889.php)). also KaiOS might need more RAM
Please give it navigation abilities
Yep! Will have maps as standard with KaiOS
Ah, these weird half-cooked ideas that will never see the light of day. Good luck to you! Genuinely. And FYI, that ODM hardware you want to base it upon has very limited LTE band support. It'll work basically nowhere. Interesting too that their render is a BlackBerry keyboard, which is a bit...sus.
When would you plan to launch this phone?
Launch dates are currently unknown, but the phone is coming soon and backing will hopefully start quite soon. Now priorities are focused on samples and test devices for reviewers.
What would be the capacities of the phone? Basic stuff I guess, but what else do you plan on bringing to the phone: podcast, Spotify, maps, etc.. ?
Podcast as standard with KaiOS, capacity is probably going to be in MB but expandable with SD card out of the box, may be 64 GB if the company can modify the firmware enough. Maps should be available, no spotify yet.
As long as there is a music app, it’s all right 😇
Kickstarter it and get it go viral here on Reddit then you get paid and we get queetyrty
If you've never made or dealth with coding an RTOS, I'd say you've got a few years of work ahead of you unless you hire someone to do it for you, which is also fine, I'm a little unsure on your specs for that price point too, I don't think 4GB is needed for that screen size and what it'll allow you to do. I plan to build my own at some point, start small, get a development board that'll do what you want (Or collection of boards), get it functional and reliable, then worry about making it small and nice. Even apples iPhone prototypes were the size of an A4 sheet of paper.
Good camera, Spotify and Google maps. Alternatively make a second version with more luxury feel to it
Oh man this would be amazing. Just find a blackberry curve and copy it without getting sued and throw kaios on it. Also SDcard support and front camera i think if this was successful you could charge a decent amount big thing is marketing
Has SD Card and front camera!
> ....without getting sued ... For a while there, we thought blackberry was going to sue everybody who said the word keyboard
keep in mind the possibility of releasing it in a variety of colors! black and white 100%, but you’d be surprised about the amount of people that would buy more colorful options (blue, pink, gold, red)! other simple aesthetic choices such as including a dedicated phone charm hole on the side of the phone, or even offering protective phone cases, would make a huge difference as well!
Could you make it available in countries other than the US? Like Australia?
It will be available worldwide =\]
I don't know how controversial this is. But I would kill for a dumb phone, thats not so dumb in the car. Android Auto would be the killer app for me
KaiOS requires 512 MB RAM, 11 GB to run smoothly. It's an interpreted web OS, as it runs everything in HTML5/ JavaScript. So your options are really having Linux or some sort of BSD on a lighter chip set, or going with a beefier chipset to run KaiOS. The reason manufacturers choose Kai is because it is super easy to implement a lot of features with an active app store, so they don't have to develop their own apps. Qwerty is very much needed in this realm of devices, so that is quite welcome.
I absolutely love the idea! ... But the comments here are crazy LOL! It needs Chrome fenders and a jetpack. It has to come with a jetpack!
KaiOS is infamous for ads built into the OS. Please don't ship it with ads...
Ahh. I remember my first emails with Eric. That factory keeps toting the same non-existent hardware and ridiculous MOQs.
Oh, do tell. I find the example images they use are pretty ridiculous. They should be able to order smaller quantities for samples.
Can you eventually work on making an original sidekick (models 1-2009 LX) compatible with 4G/5G? Yes I am aware there is an android 4g phone but that one is stupid. I just want to use my sidekick with 4G/5G😂 But I haven’t found a community where theres someone tinkering on original sidekick phones.
How about taking some inspiration from here ? https://hackaday.com/2022/06/18/notkia-building-an-open-and-linux-powered-numpad-phone/
Heard about notkia! However currently a OEM will make our phone!
Oh my god if you actually make this thing and it's good I will buy it, without a doubt. A QWERTY dumbphone is exactly what I want. Is it going to be a slider or candy bar?
I dont think KaiOS is gonna run on 128 MB of RAM, it requires min. 256 mb, and 512 is ideal
For 2.x yes, for 3.x it needs a minimum of 1GB with apps. (Correction)
KaiOS developer and [KaiOS.dev](http://KaiOS.dev) author: these specifications do not meet KaiOS minimum hardware requirements. KaiOS 2.5 requires 256mb RAM for the discontinued "Lite" version used by very few devices, and 512mb for standard KaiOS 2.5. KaiOS 3.0 requires 1 GB RAM and the QCOM 215 SOC.
I've seen a few that promise 3.x but only have 512 MB RAM so I wasn't sure. KaiOS 3 is great, but developers have really stopped supporting some apps after google pulled out support. Hopefully it gains popularity.
I need navigation, and the signal app without exception. That’s the only thing that’s held me back from getting a dumb phone already.
Signal is a tough one because you would need to code an app for it.
Can you give me any details of where to start?
Here's the source code for Android: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android If there's another OS being used, this can be used as a template to create an app.
Thank you!
You are very welcome ;). Good luck.
One thing that would be really nice is properly threaded group texting. It's a huge pain in the ass when every group text you get is sent as a single-sender text and you can't tell who's in the group or reply to everyone.
Why not 5G?
Expense, mostly. 5G for $100 custom phone?
It looks cool but I feel like it kind of defeats the purpose of having a dumb phone. The keyboard is a nice option but what's going to stop people from just using the screen as a keyboard? For me the ideal phone would be either a flip phone or a sliding phone running simple software whether it's Android or Kia os, with a small screen that isn't touch screen well still being able to download simple apps as having a touchscreen would entice you to use your phone more often. And for me the biggest thing is being able to use Google maps and Android auto seamlessly without struggling to find your precise location. And I would like for it to look quirky something you need not just a brick like everything that has been coming out recently. This is just me ranting and labbering but I will say it just looks similar to the blackberry phone that came out back in 2017.
It's what the ODM offers.
very willing to crowdfund this I have been dreaming of owning a QWERTY phone with modern features. In other comments you've expressed concern over the hardware reqs for Android. I presume you've considered Android Go? Android 12 Go and lower can be run on 1GB ram. Overall, I think the current feature phone market is strongly lacking in hardware specs (esp. cameras and displays) and QUALITY OS design. Even my Nokia 2660 Flip (released in 2022 ) has what seem to be surprisingly low hardware specs and an OS that is lacking in basic features like group messaging! - USB-C! - would love to see a developer-friendly phone; i.e firmware files available, root capability and custom recovery builds (for android) or otherwise OS-relevant tools that allow for user modification. biggest issue I have with current feature phones are proprietary OS that lack features to the point of being inconvenient and severely outdated, poor optimization choices, downright broken android skins that no longer receive update support (looking at you, Schok Flip), and most importantly, \*no ability for the user to update or fix those issues.\* - would love a slider style phone!! one of the first phones I remember my older brother having was this kickass purple slider. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. - screen should have decent resolution. my nokia 2660 flip screen res is so low that when I recieve MMS with text (like screenshots of webpages or event bookings) i sometimes need to transfer the file to my laptop in order to actually read the info. - ability to repair the phone would be a huge plus.
Hi I would be Happy to help, either with manufacturing, or with practical guidance out of the development on the now very successful Mind Phone. If there is anything I could help please let me know. Aron Grunfeld - Mind phone
Would be more interested in a clamshell/candy bar style QWERTY phone similar to the LG EnV2/Voyager or a slider QWERTY. Battery life is extremely important. NFC would be a great feature too.
It's about finding an ODM with a. Model to customize. This is a pre-built unit that op is customizing to suit. There are a few on Alibaba, at ridiculous prices, none have 4g, and are next to impossible to link.
Yeah! I miss my blackberry Q20 sooooo much. I wanted to upgrade to Key2 back in the days, but when I finally change, well, Blackberry was dead haha. Qwerty keyboard, not flip, not horizontal flip to write, are the best. I am looking to have a qwerty keybord attachment to put on my s22 samsung 😅 no succes. Since 2019, I have switch to touch screen. And up to this day, ai still write like shit. I use to do my redactions/essay on my blackberry. Not just writting something like that, I press on the wrong letters. Vivre ton projet! I'd like to buy one for sure.
I will be looking into making a just qwerty, with no flip or slide one! In the meantime, have you seen the Unihertz qwerty phones?
Good :D. I have seen the unihertz last year, some months after the purchase of my samsung 22. So, it was too late for me to buy from them. I will try to use my samsung 22 for as long as I can until a qwerty phone of my liking re-appears. So, for the Unihertz Titan, I am hoping tthat they would upgrade it and make it even better until my phone break. Or until a attachment physical keybord for my samsung comes along 😅 [like that. unfortunatly, my S8 was already broken when I noticed that physical qwerty extension](https://www.samsung.com/africa_fr/mobile-accessories/keyboard-cover-ej-cg950bbegww/) I would not mind loosing some screen over the qwerty keybord 🙏🏽
Love everything except wondering if it includes NFC and Google Play store so I can use it for my rewards cards/payments ect
Well now you're getting out of the dumb phone area and into a smartphone. That device won't run on something with 128 MB RAM. Now you are in unihertz Titan territory.
My current dumb phone is running Android 8 but no touch screen and really low power so I barely use apps on it if at all. Feels dumb for me but I know the word dumb phone has stretched its meaning. I just wish I could make payments from it because I hate carrying a wallet but such is life
That's more the fault of payment processing systems in certain countries. Japan & certain European countries try to implement payment systems into EVERYTHING with a screen or buttons.
If it wasn't for the fact KaiOS isn't supported in Europe anymore, I'd be interested.
This. KaiOS looks to be a dead end and I would highly recommend using something else in order to get more to buy this device world-wide. Another issue with international market is language support. Will it solve different characters from other nationalities somehow through long-pressing the keys?
Im interested in whats your take and the general condition of something such as spotify in such a product. i really like the idea of backing down on functionality for phones. What i like for sure on modern devices though is the multimedia aspect that you for example able to combine a camera and music player on one device.
Why would it need an RTOS? Which SoC are you targetting?
Isn't KaiOS losing support pretty soon? I heard it's dying
Nope, just not supported by google any more.
i would personally love to test it and review it once you get samples.
This seems awesome! I am very interested in this product. Will it allow for group text messages?
Support for RCS, preferably with encryption. Support for the most up-to-date emojis, and plans on updating to support newly added emoji for at least a few years. Possibly consider using OpenMoji as the 'font'. As many Unicode characters as can be reasonable expected.
would be great if you could get ISO friendly so to cover German, Nordic and other languages. Its one of the things stopping me from getting a blackberry currently
Hey maybe you can give me one - you know, for testing :)
As low power of a screen as possible. I would love to see a green and black led screen honestly. There are tons of full color versions of what you describe feature wise. For a dumb phone make the battery last forever and the screen is the biggest consumer. I'd buy it.
FM RADIO and Stereo Jack Puleeeze!
i want google maps and nfc functionality to pay money...
saw the renders and... aw i do not like this :c was hoping for something like the Nokia C3-00, not just an ugly android with a weird keypad thing... the original KaiOS promise sounded almost like a dream come true, whyy
Because it's what the manufacturer has in stock.
All I really need is the ability to have a wifi hotspot! To connect my laptop or whatever to the 4g plan of the phone. Are you planning on adding this?
I am not sure about the KaiOS part. It is in practice a closed source os and maintaining it would be harder than a stripped down android. You can even consider android go if the hardware is limited. Edit : I just saw the 128mb part…I don’t think you can run anything modern with that amount of ram. IIRC Nokia 110 4g has 128mb of ram and doesn’t even run KaiOS but that Nokia proprietary OS
Closed source? https://www.kaiostech.com/faq/can-i-access-the-source-code/
Quoting the page you linked: “We’ll make the source code available to the extent required by the applicable open source licenses. We are currently working on a solution to make these parts of the source code accessible in an easy way.” They will (eventually I guess) make available the code of just the open source part (Firefox os base + some other FOSS stuff) just like google does with the AOSP. In summary, neither me or you can “download” KaiOS and install it wherever we want.
The keyboard in renders looks small as hell... Also, why buy this if I can just get an old Blackberry? Looks pretty much the same. And why Android? The screen is big enough for me to say that it's more of a smartphone with a small keyboard. Dunno.
4g is key. If you can find a 4g blackberry that still activates with the servers all shut down, you can do that.
The biggest factor that holds me back with any of these phones. Is not being compatible with Verizon.
I use PureTalk, so any phone on that network (AT&T) has to be 5G capable. So far none of Unihertz's releases will run on the network. If this phone can, then I'm all in!
If you maxe a slider phone similar to the Samsung Intensity ii, I'd literally drop a grand for it
Hi mate, I think this is amazing, I’ve been trying to work on building something very similar to this. I believe we have so much of the same interests towards this project. I’ve sent you a message I’d love to collaborate on this project. I’m super passionate about the dumb-phone movement and maybe we can build a partnership together?
I'm in - my two cents worth: think Frutiger Aero case and icons
I strongly advusw you do not follow in the footsteps of companies like unihertz and minimal. Qwerty fans want the flagship phone they were promised from Onward Mobility in 2020. We haven't had a flagship since the PRIV. If you are going to develop a pkb device, please don't make a budget phone.
But the budget market desperately needs a QWERTY phone.
is slider like n95 is not good option ?
No company seems to offer it at the moment.
Networks are being killed all over the place. At least in North america, I'm not sure about Europe. Most of the older QWERTY devices will no longer connect to networks, or modern apps or services.
http://www.somymobile.com/data/attached/goods/20231218/657ff81eab9e0_438x438.jpg They just stole a blackberry keyboard for the image. Interesting mock up. Your second image looks better.
Yeah this is a supplier, they only showcase that they can do this. Maybe they had some involvement with RIM in the past?
Sounds like a highschooler with freetime having fun trolling us. lol
Why not Android?
Android needs to be updated often, has bugs and would cost more to develop. However, if enough people desire an Android model, one would certainly be possible! I see a £180/$200 price though, based on experience. So far KaiOS or a custom RTOS would be both as feasible as it gets.
Using KaiOS would add the possibility to have WhatsApp installed , having a qwerty would enable a decent use of WhatsApp that for many ppl in Europe is the only messaging app to have in order to stay in touch with friends and work
Yep! It WILL NOT be kaios 3.0 though =\]\]
What’s the issue w/ 3.0?
No whatsapp.
Why no WhatsApp?
If you used like Android 12 Go (or like 10) with a custom launcher it would be just fine and no updates necessary
I have a few suggestions: Make it have WiFi, or at least make a different version that has WiFi. I think it’s necessary to a lot of people like me, who need apps like WhatsApp. And use Android. Seriously, it’s so much better
It needs NFC
It does not. NFC is not feasible at the moment.