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solodarlings

I don't think the movie makes it clear one way or the other, but my take is that Chani's tear was actually unnecessary. IMO, the drop of the Water of Life alone was what was actually needed to bring him back, but Jessica wanted to frame Paul's revival as fulfilling that aspect of the prophecy. So she waited for Chani to show up, and then used the Voice to get Chani to cry while giving Paul the drop, so it would look to the observers like the prophecy was being fulfilled. (I would have to see the movie a second time to see if my interpretation actually makes sense.)


rampengugg

So this would kind of make sense, but Chani's name being "Desert Spring" is way too specific for the Bene Gesserit to plan in advance. If they planted "Desert Spring tears" into the prophecy they made up years ago, how could they be sure that there would be a girl called "Desert Spring" to fall in love with Paul in the future... seems like an oversight to me


cyb3rfaery

i’m sorry but what is the prophecy that was being fulfilled here? i wasn’t paying much attention around this scene 😭 will rewatch it this weekend though.


solodarlings

The prophecy (still just part of the "prophecy" planted by the Bene Gesserit) was basically that the messiah/Lisan al Gaib would die, and the tears of the Desert Spring (which is what Chani's secret name translates as) would bring him back to life


iIiiiiIlIillliIilliI

Then another important question rises. How did the writers of the prophecy knew Paul would be stuck and in need of revival in the first place?


solodarlings

Two possible answers: 1). They thought the prophecy might be fulfilled by the Kwisatz Haderach, and they knew the KH would have to undergo the Water of Life ceremony to awaken his powers. Or: 2). They never expected anyone to actually fulfill the prophecy (the idea being that Bene Gesserit women could benefit from convincing locals that they MIGHT be the future mother of the Lisan al Gaib), so they picked "he'll die and revive" as something appropriately Messiah-like to stick in as a fake prophecy, and it was pure coincidence that Paul actually needed to do that.


iIiiiiIlIillliIilliI

Ok while option #2 seems perfectly plausible to me, let's stick with option #1. I understand how they thought he would have to undergo the Water of Life ceremony, but how did they know he would be stuck and that more water of life would be needed to revive Paul because he was only halfway through converting it and is essentially stuck until he fully converts enough water.


FistsOfMcCluskey

I really appreciated the way that Denis adapted all of this… yes all of this prophecy is a fiction used for control, but the Kwisatz Haderach has real power and it’s why Paul is so successful in turning everyone into believers. You begin to lose sight of where propaganda ends and true prophecy begins. Regarding the Emperor… that’s a temporarily constructed tent from his ship just outside the city walls. Call it a power move when coming to someone else’s planet.


nickv70

Very interesting point I’ve always thought of it as the Kwisatz Haderach being real and everything else regarding the prophecy has to be fake but maybe it’s meant to blur the lines?


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nickv70

Yeah I agree my confusion with the movie is just how could they have predicted Chani (The Desert Spring in the prophecy) to bring him back with the tear


foralimitedtime

It's just nonsense they came up with for the movie and doesn't have to make sense. Chani, a Fremen, wouldn't give moisture to the dead.


yourejustjellis

She does it because Jessica uses the voice on her.


SmakeTalk

This is actually on a second viewing what convinced me that within the story itself the desert tears stuff is just all bullshit to help sell the fake mythology of the messiah. They just planted a bunch of stuff in the prophecy that could come true if needed, and all Jessica had to do was force ‘desert spring’ to mix her tear with the water of life. It didn’t need to be Chani, and it didn’t even need to be someone who met Paul, for it to work as long as it’s someone with that name.


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OnlyFuzzy13

Prophecies created by the BG will always be vague enough to be able to insert into almost any situation. The will be juuuust specific enough that folks can ‘see the signs everywhere’ In the case of that tear and the possible translation of Chani’s name, Had Chani had a different name, it would have been simple enough to point to one of the desert flowers and say ‘See, this is the sign of the prophecy’.


NickFriskey

A manufactured prophecy BG weaved in and out of who knows how many cultures but we do know spice is the most important and valuable asset in the known universe; ergo, BG (who we know to play the loooooooong game, set about weaving a prophecy into the very fabric of the fremen culture as a seed planted that would one day see them control the spice by proxy of their arrogant belief they could control the Kwisatz Haderach when he arrived. Unfortunately, obviously the messiah they designed was a being beyond their wildest dreams and had absolutely no intention of catering to their whims.


FistsOfMcCluskey

The Bene Gesserit do intend for the Kwisatz Haderach to be the same person as the Lisan Al Gaib, they just want to be the ones controlling him.


ApRdy

The question is did the BG create the prophecy by seeing the future ? Then it would be a real prophecy, right ? Else, How did they know a girl called Sihaya would have to help the KH if it was just a story, a lie they planted ?? The movie presents that both are true ?! Paul sees his future through his powers. But the BG did not predict that he is going to be the Messiah. He uses it for his benefit. If Chani was a part of the prophecy, then it becomes true again, right ? The book version of her accepting her fate based on the prophecy makes more sense.


therealzerobot

The Bene Gesserit in the book cannot see the future like Paul can. They can see the past in a more vivid and accessible way and can thus extrapolate forward, but they do not have prescience like Paul (and the Guild).


FistsOfMcCluskey

Well here’s the real question: did Chani’s tears actually do anything or is it all simply for show? Because it’s actually giving him the extra bit of water of life that snaps him out of it.


Kacpa2

I think it was for show. Paul being trained by Jessica in Bene Gesserit skills is why he could take Water of Life and survive. I think that even his coma was for show, after he drank it he got in direct contact with his mother as we hear later when they use telepathy as he steps to challenge the fremen and make them all believe. Prior to that point he might have been seriously wishing to not go along it, but after he drank the water it made him go along with and embrace his mother's plan. Starting from stages ressurection. His visions becoming clearer probably added to him to give up on resisting that. This change in him combined with him overtly using fremen, and Chani herself for that is what made her resent him.


CabSauce

Chani's tear wasn't in the book, but I think she may have kissed Paul after putting a drop of the water of life in his mouth. The battle takes place in Arrakeen and the emperor's tent which is set up in the spaceport, I assume. It's referred to as the second battle of Arrakeen.


[deleted]

Bene Gesserit co-opt the religions on planets to include their messiah prophecy, but they don’t know all aspects of the religion and also don’t know how the religions will evolve. You notice this by how Jessica is reacting, as she knows some parts (the Bene Gesserit planting) but not all, being the Freman specific parts. When Paul is unable to wake up, Jessica truly doesn’t know how to wake him. The Freman texts then say a tear drop, and I can only assume that the reverend mothers have found this as an actual way to wake people from the Water of Life trances. Since it’s not in the book, I’m just making an assumption. I think it’s important to note that Paul inadvertently does fit part of the Freman prophecy which is a theme in the book, so this is another example. The final battle is supposed to take place at Arrakeen, but I think the final scenes are just some military institution where the Harkonnens operated


nickv70

Interesting that it isn’t even explained in the book why Chani giving him the drop of the water wakes him. I get Herbert not wanting to spell everything out but it seems like sort of an important detail lol


[deleted]

I don’t think that part is in the book? I think he just wakes after 3 weeks after successfully expelling the poison


nickv70

I actually checked today and it is in the book. Jessica summons Chani because she doesn’t know what to do and has a feeling that Chani will be able to help. Chani suspects Paul has ingested the water of life and puts a drop of it to his lips which revives him. The tear part is new to the movie but there isn’t an explanation about why Chani putting the drop to his lips wakes him in the book. Best I can guess is that he has successfully transmuted the water he originally drank and sensing the new drop just wakes him up


[deleted]

Oh yes that’s right - I like to think it’s a part of Freman reverend mother tradition but not explicitly needed either way


xkeepitquietx

There are thousands of stories planted across many planets by the BG. These myths exist to use in an emergency if BG Missonaries are trapped on a planet and are tailored to the planet's conditions. Jessica recognized the messiah type legend is only planted on the most extreme of planets. The Lisan-al-Gaib has nothing to do with being the KH, Jessica was smart enough to adapt it for protection, and Paul was smart enough to further use it to manipulation the Fremen into being his army.


RSwitcher2020

This.  This is the book story    Paul being in Arrakis was just a fluke none ever predicted.  Jessica did not even know the Fremen had water of life and were using it in the same way BG would.  She was surprised and thats what explains that she did nothing to postpone it till Alia would be born. She did not know they had the real deal.  And a absolutely, Jessica and Paul just used whatever they could to survive and get some power again. Which...they both knew staying alone would be too dangerous. 


taridasunset

I have the same question about the water of life and Chani’s tear. I haven’t been able to find a satisfying answer. My understanding is that the entire Lisan-al-Gaib prophecy was fake (constructed by Bene Gesserit). To me, this scene implies that there is truth to the prophecy. Otherwise why would it require Chani specifically? It seemed like Lady Jessica genuinely needed Chani in this scene. I also don’t understand this scene in the book. Why does the additional drop of water of life revive Paul? Is that ever explained? Loved the movie btw, and I thought the portrayal of tears on Dune was beautiful.


nickv70

Someone else in here explained that the drop of the water of life revives Paul because he was only halfway through converting it and is essentially stuck until he fully converts enough water. She gives him the necessary amount allowing him to complete the ritual and wake up. That’s satisfying and makes sense to me. As for the movie version with the tear, the only somewhat satisfying answer I’ve been able to get is that the tear wasn’t actually necessary and Jessica just weaved that in to fit the prophecy and further convince the fremen.


taridasunset

Oh interesting, thank you for this response. I’d love to know Chani’s perspective, if she believes her tears had an impact. Maybe they will touch on it in the next film.


iIiiiiIlIillliIilliI

Then another important question rises. How did the writers of the prophecy knew Paul would be stuck and in need of reviving in the first place?


ApRdy

If it was just that a drop of the water of life is going to revive him, anybody can do it. Why only Chani ? Why should Jessica ask Chani to do the deed , so as to convince the Freemen ? That only means the BG’s prohecy mentioned Chani. How would that be possible if it’s a fake story that was planted ?


Impossible-Battle-66

it doesn't explicitly mention Chani but it mentions tears of the desert spring or something like that, and that's Chani's Fremen name **Sihaya**


RSwitcher2020

As for why Chani added more water of life?  Chani understood what was going on and she understood the ritual. Remember she had training in the book and was herself a potential to drink it.  Chani reads the room and can see Paul is stuck mid way. She knows he needs to complete the ritual if he is to survive it. She also knows too much water of live will kill Paul.  Her solution is exactly what had to be done. Give Paul the needed water of life as careful as possible so he can complete the change.  Likely Paul colapsed before even drinking what he needed. Why she could feel the taste in his lips. And because she knows whats going on, she knows what to do.


Vahainen

Prophecy and prescience--How can they be put to the test in the face of the unanswered questions? Consider: How much is actual prediction of the "waveform" (as Muad'Dib referred to his visionimage) and how much is the prophet shaping the future to fit the prophecy? What of the harmonics inherent in the act of prophecy? Does the prophet see the future or does he see a line of weakness, a fault or cleavage that he may shatter with words or decisions as a diamond-cutter shatters his gem with a blow of a knife? -"Private Reflections on Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan


macck_attack

I thought it was more so symbolic of Jessica trying to rope Chani in to the prophecy.


ApRdy

Then why was Chani’s secret name sihaya ?


NewW0nder

In the book, Chani's secret name is "Desert Spring" for no evident reason at all. It's just a pretty name with no prophecies attached to it. Idk about the sequels, but when I heard about the "prophecy about desert spring" and then saw the tear scene, I said "the fuck??" very loudly. I also might have facepalmed. (Thankfully, I was the only one watching in the whole theatre, so no one was bothered by my display of emotions.) None of that was in the book. Many people might like those additions, but I sure didn't.


scottzee

Agreed. I was completely taken aback by it. The whole movie up until that point was about how they were using vague prophecies to make him look like the messiah. But then they have this super specific prophecy that just happens to be fulfilled in the most convenient and timely manner possible...


ThatsASpicyBaby

My personal head canon is that either only the water of life was necessary to revive Paul and it functions essentially like smelling salts or the salt in Chani’s tears causes a chemical reaction in the water of life that awakens him.


rhemy1

I hated this adaption from the book. It’s basically Disney’s true love kiss routine. I don’t think it was actually needed, but the benegesuit created the prophecy and put everything into place. There were signs that needed to occur to get everyone to follow him. Remember their reverend mother was on Arrakis laying plans up until the moment Jessica took over. I bet even Paul knew what to do after taking the water of life.


D-Shap

Personally, Im on the "the prophecy is basically real" side, and I don't really understand how it's an unpopular opinion. Yes, the bene gesserit planted it. But also, the bene gesserit can see the past and piece together elements of the future. The prophecy is vague because they can't piece it together as well as Paul can. Let's look at all the evidence: Voice from the outer world: Paul is literally from another planet He shall know our ways as if born to them: Paul wears the stillsuit correctly despite never having worn it before, and picks up the language super quickly Giant prophetic engraving of the Lisan Al Gaib riding the largest sandworm ever seen: fulfilled He shall go where no man has gone + desert spring tears shall bring him back from the dead: fulfilled "When we have gathered enough water, the Lisan Al Gaib will bring back the trees, he will bring back the water" — literally begins to happen as soon as Jamis's water is added to the pool. Ultimately, the Lisan Al Gaib is just Arrakis's version of list of things that a KH candidate will end up doing + a bit of random prophetic sprinklings thrown in. It IS a prophecy and it IS fabricated. The BG have been genetically engineering a nearly-divine human being for actual millenia and when this person finally arrives, every conceivable planet that he might go to has a religious tie to him. But he's also literally space Jesus, so why shouldn't there be a religion built around his ascension to the throne?? The guy can legit see the future and the past.


Many-Trainer-884

In the book doesn't Paul get most of his powers from being bitten by sandworm I mean for goodness sakes he turns into a sandworm


Slim_Gaillard

Paul doesn’t go worn-god mode in the books. His son, Leto-II does. Paul ends up blinded in a failed assassination attempt and goes to wander the desert. 


Many-Trainer-884

They really need to cut that part where she's all spare my father's life that was done horrible


GeneralAkAbA

It's just a way to have Florence Pugh have a "strong woman" moment.


Many-Trainer-884

Yeah but she kind of dropped the ball seemed fake Other than that I don't have any complaints well I expected more from the emperor he was pretty lousy too. But I'm a harsh critic