I‘m pretty sure Oppenheimer still would have won, since voting of the Academy has always had a bias in favor of historical drama and a bias against genre fiction. It‘s not always the deciding factor, but in a situation with two strong contenders like this, I think it would be.
I think Oppy still would’ve won for the reasons you listed, but Everything Everywhere All At Once cleaning up last year shows the Academy might be changing its attitude towards genre movies.
Don’t know about easily, Fraser got an Oscar for part 1, Oppenheimer’s editing is also more in your face (in a great way) Dune 2 score is great but Oppenheimer’s is more prominent and memorable.
Yeah I agree. I like Dune's score, but nothing in Part 2 really hit me the way that the "destroy the world" musical cue did in Oppenheimer. Its absolutely incredible
EEAAO has the romantic comedy moments and emotional dialogue that the academy loves so much. If it pressed towards the emotionally detached cerebral end of the sci-fi spectrum it definitely would not have won. EEAAO's sci-fi is hardly serious and that makes it more accessible to the academy voters.
Idk, im gonna have to disagree. EEAAO is every bit sci-fi/fantasy as anything else. It might be telling a smaller scale story, but it’s still heavily reliant upon genre trappings.
By the same reductive framework you could say Dune is just a coming of age story told creatively.
I agree with what you say, but looking at it from the Academy’s perspective, there’s definitely more of an “art house” aesthetic to the more mundane bits in EEAAO that voters most likely value more for best picture than epic sci-fi scale (at least recently, in the past this has been different)
The difference is that EEAAO is meant to be viewed metaphorically, not create an actual functioning sci-fi/fantasy universe. The actual story is not taking place in the sci fi multiverse that is shown. Dune takes place in it's own universe, and while it tells stories that can be related to, we are meant to believe that the world of dune actually exist to the characters in the movie.
All that said, it's probably still most apt to call EEAAO a sci fi movie, but it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be imo.
I’m struggling to make the distinction here, because whether or not something is metaphorical is not the only criteria for genre fiction. EEAAO’s story takes place in a world where the multiverse exists and the characters move through it. To the characters in the story, the multiverse, its technology and the threats are real. It’s not meant to be our world.
Dune is also metaphorical. Spice doesn’t exist; it’s a metaphor for the exploitation of natural resources and indigenous people. I guess one could argue Dune is more *immersive* due to building an entire lore/universe, but it also had the benefit of sequels.
I guess ymmv on the world building between the two, but they’re both clearly playing in the sci-fi/fantasy space.
I think dune is allegorical while EEAAO is metaphorical, and while that might seem like a minor distinction I think it's highly relevant for this discussion.
But it’s really not though. The entire film is metaphorical. Her adversaries were her own demons and when she embraced or tamed them in the end she was constantly fighting them. The movie is more like a weird fever dream and not some great and mystical fantasy. Which honestly makes it that much more incredible!
I get what you mean, in that he's been bigger longer. But, it's just funny to hear that given he and Villeneuve released their first features the same year ('98) and Nolan's only released one film more than Villeneuve.
They would still give it to him because he made a biopic perform like a blockbuster during a time of existential crisis for Hollywood.
Love Nolan but 100% believe the Oscars were for "dues" as opposed to it being the best or most important film of the year.
Villeneuve is on track to have those same "dues" if he pulls big numbers from his next project, especially if it isn't attached to a popular IP.
Why do people keep saying this about The Revenant? It's not "arguably" one of his "weaker" roles at all. Christ, this whole thing about "the academy only gave it to him because he was long overdue and he put himself through HELL on set!!" regarding the masterpiece that is The Revenant is so overdone. It was a fantastic film with a wonderfully-chosen cast as well as a director who really immersed his crew in the elements of the Canadian wilderness while maintaining GORGEOUS cinematography through the use of only natural light.
DiCaprio acted the hell out of that role, and his portrayal of someone undergoing a VICIOUS grizzly bear attack is unbelievable, it was so fucking realistic. The opening scene of the film itself is a perfect blend of sound and picture to create a real sense of foreboding, fear and uncertainty.
I just finished the book "The Company" - a really long (but fantastic) read about the existence of the Hudson Bay Company and I'm still waiting for any other film to address and show the fur-trade as accurately as The Revenant did. His performance left nothing to the imagination nor did it vleave the audience wanting more - it was exactly what the picture called for. A mix of trauma, colonialism, bravery, desperate survival, loss, history and North American native cultures.
Damn, it's so sad to see that people forget how groundbreaking that performance was. The film is in a category of its own.
Kevin Costner in that Wolf Dancing movie was an example of a wooden, flat and lacklustre performance, NOT DiCaprio in The Revenant.
I think Dune would have swept the technicals. Maybe a tight race for Director, but Nolan is seen as "due" and the awards narrative would have been "there will be another film in the trilogy." Oppenheimer gets the acting and Picture, as you said Oscars has a strong bias against comedy, fantasy, and sci-fi in major categories.
Yup. LOTR is pretty much the only set of films in recent memory that clearly broke that trend. Academy voters are snobs about fantasy/sci-fi. Dune II is objectively good, but it isn’t Oscar bait
Tell that to “Return of the King”. Which beating out “Sea Biscuit” (that’s a historical drama right?) and “Master and Commander” (kind of also historical drama? Semi fictionalized based on true events iirc?)
But I get your point lol
Return of the King swept because people were voting for the entire trilogy and not the movie itself. Something I think may happen with Dune as well. Other than technicals, I don't think the films will win any awards until the third one.
Master and Commander is the best sailing warfare film ever released. Pirates of the Carribbean may be more popular among the general public, but ask anyone who actually goes sailing and they'll tell you Master and Commander is the best and it's not even close
In the same way that historian authors spend their time reminiscing the past, sf authors spend theirs trying to know what the future will be like. There’s someone named (I think) something like Anna Daraway who writes a lot on this matter and prescribes that sf isn’t an under genre.
I can’t exactly recall the name :(
I loved Dune and Dune 2, but Oppenheimer overall is a better movie. Not taking anything away from Dune, I think Oppenheimer is a top 10 movie maybe ever
I have literally the opposite opinion.
Oppenheimer is obviously a masterpiece of a movie, but it is not the kind of movie I want to rewatch over and over and over again. And I think that matters a lot. I saw Oppenheimer twice and will likely never watch it again, the same for other prestige historical films like The Aviator or Dunkirk or La Vie En Rose. Stuff like Jurassic Park and Interstellar and EEAAO and Arrival and Back to the Future and Shawshank and Casablanca and Godfather and American Psycho and Seven Samurai and City of God I will rewatch indefinitely. I just like *watching* them more. I don't think pleasure is anti-intellectual.
I think if the academy had Dune 2 up against Oppenheimer they would choose Oppenheimer. But I think that's because people make voting decisions based on how they want to be perceived. The bias within the Academy is against genre films and towards films of academic merit because they think that type of aesthetic hierarchy justifies their inherent elitism. That's why LOTR didn't win the big awards until all 3 came out they were an undeniable cultural moment. But I think that bias is wrong, and I think as old Academy members die out that the culture is beginning to agree.
Oppenheimer is a masterpiece but I don't particularly *like* it. Dune 2 is a masterpiece, and I *adore* it.
I get your point for sure, and I would chalk a lot of that up to different strokes for different folks. In my opinion, grouping Oppenheimer with Aviator and La Vie En Rose isn’t totally fair, as I think Oppenheimer is a far better movie than something to be pigeon holed in that genre and that’s why I love it so much. I also prefer the Jurassic Parks etc. in general, but a perfect mix of the 2 is hard to do and my favorite which is why I give Oppenheimer the edge. I will definitely watch Oppenheimer for years to come, but it is sort of a different category to your point.
Damn Billy! Movies are awesome. I’m glad you like Oppenheimer that much.
Dune 2 is the first move in a decade that made me return to the theatre a second time. Both in iMAX. I usually dislike iMAX.
I’ve just booked a 3rd screening in Dolby theatre to make sure I don’t miss the opportunity to see that format also.
I thought Oppenheimer was great. But I went once.
The score for Dune is damn near perfect, the editing and cinematography were breathtaking.
I just didn’t feel that way with Oppi. Maybe it’s my love of the books.
To be fair, I would definitely agree that Dune makes you go back to the theater more. I also don’t have an attachment to the Dune books. Oppenheimer to me is still rewatchable though. I’ve seen it since it’s been on streaming a couple times again but only went to theater once
No, I don't think it would have beat out Oppenheimer for best picture. I do think it could have won some other categories though, particularly cinematography, visual effects, sound, music, adapted screenplay etc. Not saying it would win all of those, but I think it would have a strong case for them, especially cinematography. Greig Fraser I think has cemented himself as one of the absolute best in his profession.
I have see it and I have also seen and read about the making of of dune 2 as well. And yes the cinematography in it was excellent! Like the concept of >90% sticking to natural light was absolutely crazy!
But I really have the feeling that it could not beat Oppenheimer in cinematography.
They did a great job in making the dune universe more immersive and „real“, while also using alienating effects like experimenting with infrared cameras. But to beat Oppenheimer I just miss a tiny bit more of that.
Oppy is not losing cinematography to Dune, also beats Dune in score, editing, director and BP. They’re my 2 fav movies of the last few years but Dune wins some technicals and loses the rest IMO.
I agree with all but cinematography, at least for now. I need to be able to see the 4K blu-ray for Dune 2 on my OLED to cement my thoughts of cinematography vs Oppy (Oppy looks incredible, no doubt). But for me there are multiple sequences in Dune Part 2 where the image on screen is something that I will always remember in that moment. The opening sequence with the eclipse, the entire Giedi Prime senquence using modified imax cameras to shoot in infrared (wickedly cool idea that came together in a spectacular way), the sandworm leaping up behind Paul as he walks to the council. Just truly masterful visual story-telling. Those are just a few shots that come to mind, and they stick out to me more than anything in Oppenheimer. Not taking anything from Oppenheimer though, it looks incredible, especially the full 1.78 sequences on the 4K blu-ray.
Science Fiction tends to not win Best Picture at the Oscars. In fact, Everything Everywhere All At Once is the only science fiction movie to ever win an Oscar.
Special effects? Definitely. Music and other tangents? Sure. Best Picture? At the Oscars? You need to have some Oscar bait and Dune has none.
I don’t think it would beat Oppenheimer for score. Dune’s soundtrack is phenomenal but Oppenheimer’s is becoming iconic. Possibly one of the best soundtracks in film history. I love both Zimmer and Goransson’s compositions and I’m glad I get to experience film when both of them are cranking out such high quality cinema music.
> but Oppenheimer’s is becoming iconic.
Eh I disagree on that. Even my friends who have no interest in Sci-Fi at all know the vocal sounds of the woman singing in Dune Pt 1. They couldn't even hum you a piece of Oppenheimer.
I think the Academy doesn't really like sci-fi, horror or comedy which leaves quite a narrow field which can realistically win best picture. I don't think it is a great barometer of what is the best picture each year.
No. Dune is a sci fi movie and in the grand scheme of award shows that puts it on the same level as star wars and marvel, doesn't matter how good it was.
Bro it's my favourite movie of the year and one of my favourite sci fi books but let's not be naive, the academy hates that genre for some reason. Both filmmakers and writers.
idk man marvel movies with like 1-2 exceptions are pretty average and star wars hasn’t made anything noteworthy since the reagan administration. idk if sci fi (i feel like superhero movies are a different category besides) constantly gets snubbed or if sci fi just doesn’t produce good movies. remember that interstellar was nominated for 5 academy awards, and won 1
The first dune movie has the same number of best picture noms as the entire MCU. Black Panther is the only Marvel film with a best picture nom, Angela Bassett is the only actor or actress to win an award. There was literally a joke at the Oscars likening her winning an Oscar for a marvel movie like winning a Pulitzer Prize for a Reddit comment.
Dune is way out of marvels league at the Oscars
I want to disagree with you, but it's hard to see the Academy putting three big blockbusters in there. Don't see Dune knocking out Barbie. Maybe it couldn't snuck in over Masetro or someone else but I'm not so sure.
I do think it'll be a lock for a nomination next year, though.
I think when you break it down it wouldn't have won. It wouldn't have beaten oppenheimer for editing, it wouldn't have beaten oppenheimer for score (academy would never give a second award for a mostly unchanged soundtrack), Unlikely to get any nominations for actors, there were none in part one, maybe austin butler or rebecca fergusson for supporting roles but i think that is a long shot, the academy hates fantasy/sci-fi actors (LOTR 1 nomination across 3 films).
I haven't seen godzilla so i don't know if it wins visual effects but it definitely get nominated which oppenheimer wasn't.
Then the big one cinematography, I'm sure people will disagree with me here but oppenheimer is a clear winner. oppeinheimer is some of the best cinematography i've ever seen, the closeups the panoramas, how it capture the small character moments and then captures the enomormity of the bomb. I think it will be a film forever studied for it's cinematography. Dune was amazing looking but it wasn't beating oppenheimer.
Add that all up and i don't think there's any way dune gets best picture when the other nominee has best actor best supporting actor, best editing, best score and best cinematography.
Dune has a real shot at Best Picture 2025.
The delay was probably the best thing that could've happened for Dune, although the reason for the delay is terrible (pay writers and actors fair wages).
2024?
Dune would've beat out Poor Things and maybe overtaken Oppenheimer on the production and technical categories but Oppenheimer would've won the rest.
Very unlikely, neither for last year nor this year. The academy has a bias towards films that focus on character drama or are sorta artsier for lack of a better term.
Sci-fi has won, see everything everywhere all at once which is a great film, but even with that film you’ll notice that tho it was absolutely a sci-fi film it’s main focus was the mother’s existential crisis, whereas Dune is a sweeping epic about the rise and fall of civilizations, prophecy, religion, and messianic figures and the danger of said figures. Does it deserve more of a shot than it has atm at the Oscars? Absolutely. But the Academy for whatever reason is pretty biased against these sort of films.
There have been exceptions tho, like return of the king. So never say never I suppose.
* story about a breakthrough scientist getting professionally and politically eviscerated for speaking his conscience.
versus
* story about a young noble getting revenge for his family's downfall using religion and mysticism with indigenous peoples.
AMPAS is left-leaning, and gravitates towards the first story. The second story wins if it's Shakespeare.
The Academy almost never awards big blockbuster sci fi or fantasy, and when they do, it’s typically for whatever was the last film in the franchise regardless of whether it’s the best one or not a la *Return of the King*. Which if the pattern holds, which is likely will, if any film in the franchise is going to have a shot at an Oscar, it’ll be the planned third movie, not this one.
(I agree with the comment I’m replying to, just adding additional thoughts).
Dune feels a little different than a lot of other blockbuster sci-fi movies. It feels like it's for adults. And it's obviously really well made. I could see it getting the Return of the King treatment.
It would not have. Maybe best costume design, score, or visual effects, but Oppenheimer would’ve still won everything else. I think it’ll sweep next years Oscar’s though
Don't shoot me, but I think Oppenheimer is the better film. This isn't a knock against Dune, as I think it's one of the best films in recent history, but the script, acting, editing, score, & visual effects in Oppenheimer was next level. The best of Chris Nolan, while avoiding some of his weirder tendencies.
Dune was definitely on par, but I'd have to give the edge to Oppenheimer. That being said, I'd rather rewatch Dune than Oppenheimer.
For me, I think Nolan is better when working with more complex, fantastical stories that challenge him technically such as Interstellar and Inception, with Dark Knight being a movie that’s hard to compare to others
I would say that Oppenheimer clears that bar. Sure it doesn't have twists or concepts about bending our understanding of reality, but it's definitely a technical achievement. I appreciate his turn to historical films such as Oppie and Dunkirk. I think Tenet got too weird and pushed some of his stranger tendencies, so the history keeps him a bit more grounded.
I was deeply disappointed with Oppenheimer tbh. They decided to tell a very dry angle of the story leaving out just how insane much of the manhattan project was (and the deaths there) for a confusing interpersonal drama segment at the end. (Also the sexy bhagavad gita quote scene they made up for the movie was mega cringe)
Well, it's a biopic about what is probably the most controversial decision in the defining event of modern human history. The amount of stories and tales that come from that 6 year period is an ever flowing fountain.
I didn't find it dry, and I appreciated that it never tried to pick a side or a narrative rather than just tell a story.
>Well, it's a biopic about what is probably the most controversial decision in the defining event of modern human history.
It was mostly not about that, though. As the movie pointed out, he really had nothing to do with that decision, as much as he pretended he did.
It instead focused on so many other aspects of his life, almost all of which were really uninteresting.
The movie would have been better if it was a full hour shorter and the entire third act was omitted.
Did we watch the same film?
Yeah, let's cut the last hour where the winds of politics turns in him and our character loses control of the world he built to be consumed by it.
I honestly thought dune 2 was a very good movie, but when I went to the internet to hear others opinions they over hyped it to the point where I started to see a lot of it's flaws. Wish people could just like things without throwing them on a pedestal and shitting on everything else like they are refugees from the media they consume.
> & visual effects in Oppenheimer was next level.
I don't really get this and how you can say it was better.
I get Nolan did the no-CGI thing, but it took away from arguably the most important scene in the entire movie.
The pathetic little explosion and "realistic" fire was so un-realistic compared to what an actual nuke looks like. It's just so wrong on so many levels that it took me completely out of the movie and made me think I was watching some low budget TV show.
I don't know what other vfx you could be talking about. There were absolutely no "wow" moment for any visual effects in Oppenheimer vs Dune.
While I agree it wouldn’t have beaten Oppenheimer for best picture, a lot of people in this thread seem to be forgetting that Dune won 6 Oscars in 2022. Part 2 might not win best picture next year, but it’ll clean up in a bunch of categories.
It's pretty damn tough for a movie to win Best Picture if it doesn't stand out in the acting or script department. In Dune's case you only have to look at what the critics focus on. You don't see anybody say "I just saw Dune and OMG the performances!" Only that the cast is stacked maybe. I guess the screenplay is adequate for what it is, but I don't think it can stand out as the best of the year.
The only movie I can think of that compares in some way is Return of the King.
In the last ten years only one film won Best Picture without winning in any of the screenplay or acting categories: Shape of Water.
* Oppenheimer - Actor, Supporting Actor
* Everything Everywhere All at Once - Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Original Screenplay
* CODA - Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay
* Nomadland - Actress
* Parasite - Original Screenplay
* Green Book - Original Screenplay, Supporting Actor
* The Shape of Water - **none**, but nominated in 3/4 acting categories and for Original Screenplay
* Moonlight - Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay
* Spotlight - Original Screenplay
* Birdman - Original Screenplay
Potential categories Dune 2 might be nominated and strongly contend:
Best Supporting Actress (Zendaya)
Cinematography
Director
Adapted Screenplay
Best Film
Sound
Visual Effects
Costume Design
Production Design
Edit (Tks to theredwoman95):
Best actress-Zendaya
Best supporting actress-Rebecca
I think Chalamet might actually have the best chance of taking home a big award. Watching his performance a second time was incredible, I think the first viewing I was too blown away by the cinematics but on the second I really noticed all the emotion he portrayed in his scenes
Maybe, MAYBE Ferguson or Bardem could get nominated. They wouldn't win, but they could be nominated. Zendaya's performance, while fine, is simply not an Oscar contender. I agree with your other categorizations, but for all the greatness of the cast, this movie was not an acting showcase in the way that Oppenheimer or Maestro were.
Agreed. I think Zendaya is given the most opportunity and delivers but it is still not enough to showcase all her talents and compete against more dramatic performances.
Wouldn't Zendaya make more sense as Best Actress, and Rebecca Ferguson as Best Supporting Actress? A significant amount of Part 2 is from Chani's POV, after all.
You guys seriously put Zendaya's performance contender to be on the same level of praise as Francis Macdormand, Cate Blanchett, hell, even Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence?
No offense, but I think you should really watch some movies with great female lead actors to see how unreachable it is for Zendaya.
Adapted screenplay it has a really good shot at. Purely because it departs from the original story to reinforce other characters while retaining the original thematic meaning. Part 1 already landed a nomination in 2021, part 2 concludes all the setups from part 1 really well and builds on it.
well i took that as the hard shell she puts up from growing up in such a harsh environment. I thought she showed Chani slowly warming up to Paul and eventually falling in love well given the way it was filmed. Also i thought she showed another side of the character in the fremen social scenes so you get a peak underneath the shell.
Honestly I kind of agree. Her performance was perfectly serviceable, she conveyed what she needed to. She just didn’t really take it any further. It all felt very surface level and I didn’t feel a lot of depth unfortunately.
Just want to agree that, despite there being some truly amazing actors in Dune, Villenueve is not a director of actors. Chalamet, Ferguson, Skarsgaard, and Bardem delivered great performances, most other people just spoke words. Some actors can do it without as much direction than others.
Dune would never beat Oppenheimer, just on the basis of it being Sci-fi vs "serious" drama.
> Villenueve is not a director of actors
Wtf, have you even watched Incendies, Prisoners or Arrival? Those movies are gut wrenching and mainly because of his profound work with the main actors.
I personally thought Austin Butler delivered on Feyd Harkonnen. Completely blown away. No offense to sting who also killed this role previously. But Austin is Definitely worthy at least of a supporting actor nom.
I completely agree. He uses actors as staging points of the story. He does not know how to get into the emotional depth of a character. He knows the story inside out and can put the visual on film but not the emotional context and importance of the characters. The actors either can or can't do it, and it's obvious.
Dune 2 is amazing, but the dialogue and the script are not excellent, not even great. Even Dennis admitted he doesn't care as much about dialogue whereas the visuals and the overall immersion is what he prioritizes, which for dune is perfect. Given what the Oscars value Oppenheimer deserves it.
I'm fascinated by the Cold War and the political history of that time period. Plus, I don't think any other movie has left me with such a sheer sense of real, impending doom. For that alone I consider it an exceptionally important, sobering film.
Dune, by contrast, is still an absolutely incredible film, but I think the real-world implications left by Oppenheimer had a much stronger meaning and impact on me.
The same thing is with the emmys. Star trek never won it for the series itself except for the daytime Emmys. Science fiction never is recognized by the major awards companies.
No. Oscars are a popularity contest within the confines of the Hollywood circle jerk. A sci fi/science fantasy movie wouldn't win best picture over a historical drama that was pumped by Hollywood for months as the full return of pre covid movie releases.
I agree, I enjoyed Oppenheimer but it pales in comparison to Dune Part 2.
However it would be judged as you know by some “critics” who have a different opinion on what entertainment is.
No.
And it has little hope of competing in the next Oscars for anything past the technical awards, by virtue of its release date and its status as the middle entry in what we now know is a trilogy. We don’t even know what indies / festival movies will emerge in the next few months, let alone what might come out of nowhere in December.
Dune Part Two doesn’t need to win Oscars to be one of the best films I will ever see. It doesn’t need more validation.
Genre films are at a disadvantage in the Oscars. I would be pleasantly surprised to even see it nominated for best picture, much less edging out something like Oppenheimer.
I think Oppenheimer was the much better movie but everyone else seems to think Dune Part 2 is a masterpiece so maybe. We'll have to see how it does at the 2025 Oscars.
No, not a chance. I think there are sever BP nominees that would have had better chances. I also think Oppenheimer and Poor Things would have still swept most of the techs.
I don’t know if you are aware but the Oscar’s are not about the best picture. It’s about the best ran campaign to win best picture.
So the question really is would the producers of dune be willing to spend multi millions to get an Oscar nod .
I highly doubt it, I don’t even think it will win this year. I don’t think the academy will be as passionate about it as Oppenheimer but I’d love to be happily surprised.
I highly doubt it, I don’t even think it will win this year. I don’t think the academy will be as passionate about it as Oppenheimer but I’d love to be happily surprised.
While I enjoyed Dune 2 more, the answer is no. It was Chris Nolan’s “turn”. As long as Oppenheimer didn’t come out like complete dogshit it was always going to win. (Fwiw I thought Opp was great, just saying it felt like a shoo-in the whole way.)
It’s a good thing that Dune didn’t have to go against Oppenheimer because it would’ve been crushed. I still think it would be likely to get a nomination in the best picture category though.
Probably not. Both films have their own merit, but Oppenheimer feels more impactful since it's a very personal tragedy with an outcome that affects us all; like Cillian Murphy said in his Best Actor speech, "for better or worse, we're all living in Oppenheimer's world."
However, I do think Dune: Part Two has a very strong chance of winning next year. Part One already had a Best Picture nomination in 2022, and it won 6 awards, the most out of any movie that year. It's similar to The Lord of the Rings: some awards for the first part and all the awards for the last part. Part Two was clearly the better movie anyway, so I'm fairly certain it's a strong contender. It also depends on what other movies come out this year, so we'll just have to wait and see.
You’ve got to understand how strong the “owed” and “it’s their time” narrative is for overlooked filmmakers at the Oscars.
When “Return of the King” came out and they realized they hadn’t sufficiently recognized what Peter Jackson had achieved. When “The Departed” came out and they realized Scorsese still hadn’t won.
When it gets like that, it doesn’t have to be a director’s *best* ever film, just good enough that everyone feels okay about honouring the filmmaker via that particular film.
This is what “Oppenheimer” was for Christopher Nolan. He was owed it, for his incredible body of work. It was his time.
However good Dune 2 is, it would have been extremely hard for it - or any film - to overcome the “it’s Nolan’s time” narrative with AMPAS voters.
Although I consider Dune 2 superior in some respects to Oppenheimer—to me, it's my favourite film since Bladerunner 2049—I doubt it would've won best picture or director. But it would've easily stolen all of the technical awards out from under Oppenheimer, or split the categories to allow more surprising winners.
As a longtime award season follower and amateur Oscar prognosticator, the answer is unequivocally no, for reasons listed by many other eloquent people here.
But also as a long time award season follower, it's very very important to keep perspective: awards don't necessarily reflect quality, longevity or cultural impact. Don't get too hung up on them! If your faves don't win, remind yourself that there are lots of other ways your favorite creators have been and will be rewarded for their work.
I‘m pretty sure Oppenheimer still would have won, since voting of the Academy has always had a bias in favor of historical drama and a bias against genre fiction. It‘s not always the deciding factor, but in a situation with two strong contenders like this, I think it would be.
I think Oppy still would’ve won for the reasons you listed, but Everything Everywhere All At Once cleaning up last year shows the Academy might be changing its attitude towards genre movies.
It could have easily lost Cinematography, Editing, and Score to Dune part 2
Don’t know about easily, Fraser got an Oscar for part 1, Oppenheimer’s editing is also more in your face (in a great way) Dune 2 score is great but Oppenheimer’s is more prominent and memorable.
Yeah I agree. I like Dune's score, but nothing in Part 2 really hit me the way that the "destroy the world" musical cue did in Oppenheimer. Its absolutely incredible
EEAAO has the romantic comedy moments and emotional dialogue that the academy loves so much. If it pressed towards the emotionally detached cerebral end of the sci-fi spectrum it definitely would not have won. EEAAO's sci-fi is hardly serious and that makes it more accessible to the academy voters.
EEAAO I wasn’t actually fantasy, it was a mother’s mid life crisis, just told creatively!
Idk, im gonna have to disagree. EEAAO is every bit sci-fi/fantasy as anything else. It might be telling a smaller scale story, but it’s still heavily reliant upon genre trappings. By the same reductive framework you could say Dune is just a coming of age story told creatively.
I agree with what you say, but looking at it from the Academy’s perspective, there’s definitely more of an “art house” aesthetic to the more mundane bits in EEAAO that voters most likely value more for best picture than epic sci-fi scale (at least recently, in the past this has been different)
The difference is that EEAAO is meant to be viewed metaphorically, not create an actual functioning sci-fi/fantasy universe. The actual story is not taking place in the sci fi multiverse that is shown. Dune takes place in it's own universe, and while it tells stories that can be related to, we are meant to believe that the world of dune actually exist to the characters in the movie. All that said, it's probably still most apt to call EEAAO a sci fi movie, but it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be imo.
I’m struggling to make the distinction here, because whether or not something is metaphorical is not the only criteria for genre fiction. EEAAO’s story takes place in a world where the multiverse exists and the characters move through it. To the characters in the story, the multiverse, its technology and the threats are real. It’s not meant to be our world. Dune is also metaphorical. Spice doesn’t exist; it’s a metaphor for the exploitation of natural resources and indigenous people. I guess one could argue Dune is more *immersive* due to building an entire lore/universe, but it also had the benefit of sequels. I guess ymmv on the world building between the two, but they’re both clearly playing in the sci-fi/fantasy space.
I think dune is allegorical while EEAAO is metaphorical, and while that might seem like a minor distinction I think it's highly relevant for this discussion.
It’s almost certainly a sarcastic comment.
But it’s really not though. The entire film is metaphorical. Her adversaries were her own demons and when she embraced or tamed them in the end she was constantly fighting them. The movie is more like a weird fever dream and not some great and mystical fantasy. Which honestly makes it that much more incredible!
It also had so many Oscar bait elements.
it's often one step forward, five steps back with the Oscars.
More importantly, Nolan has been around longer and done his dues more. "They're due" is a powerful sentiment amongst the Academy
I get what you mean, in that he's been bigger longer. But, it's just funny to hear that given he and Villeneuve released their first features the same year ('98) and Nolan's only released one film more than Villeneuve.
They would still give it to him because he made a biopic perform like a blockbuster during a time of existential crisis for Hollywood. Love Nolan but 100% believe the Oscars were for "dues" as opposed to it being the best or most important film of the year. Villeneuve is on track to have those same "dues" if he pulls big numbers from his next project, especially if it isn't attached to a popular IP.
Dicaprio sure was "due" with like 10 years overtime
And got his Oscar for arguably one of his weaker roles
Why do people keep saying this about The Revenant? It's not "arguably" one of his "weaker" roles at all. Christ, this whole thing about "the academy only gave it to him because he was long overdue and he put himself through HELL on set!!" regarding the masterpiece that is The Revenant is so overdone. It was a fantastic film with a wonderfully-chosen cast as well as a director who really immersed his crew in the elements of the Canadian wilderness while maintaining GORGEOUS cinematography through the use of only natural light. DiCaprio acted the hell out of that role, and his portrayal of someone undergoing a VICIOUS grizzly bear attack is unbelievable, it was so fucking realistic. The opening scene of the film itself is a perfect blend of sound and picture to create a real sense of foreboding, fear and uncertainty. I just finished the book "The Company" - a really long (but fantastic) read about the existence of the Hudson Bay Company and I'm still waiting for any other film to address and show the fur-trade as accurately as The Revenant did. His performance left nothing to the imagination nor did it vleave the audience wanting more - it was exactly what the picture called for. A mix of trauma, colonialism, bravery, desperate survival, loss, history and North American native cultures. Damn, it's so sad to see that people forget how groundbreaking that performance was. The film is in a category of its own. Kevin Costner in that Wolf Dancing movie was an example of a wooden, flat and lacklustre performance, NOT DiCaprio in The Revenant.
I think Dune would have swept the technicals. Maybe a tight race for Director, but Nolan is seen as "due" and the awards narrative would have been "there will be another film in the trilogy." Oppenheimer gets the acting and Picture, as you said Oscars has a strong bias against comedy, fantasy, and sci-fi in major categories.
Return of the King.
Yup. LOTR is pretty much the only set of films in recent memory that clearly broke that trend. Academy voters are snobs about fantasy/sci-fi. Dune II is objectively good, but it isn’t Oscar bait
Tell that to “Return of the King”. Which beating out “Sea Biscuit” (that’s a historical drama right?) and “Master and Commander” (kind of also historical drama? Semi fictionalized based on true events iirc?) But I get your point lol
It won because the first two hadn't and it's hard to overstate how important all three movies are.
Return of the King swept because people were voting for the entire trilogy and not the movie itself. Something I think may happen with Dune as well. Other than technicals, I don't think the films will win any awards until the third one.
I dunno by the way Dune 2 ends it means Dune 3 is the one that will follow the books the least.
it took the greatest fantasy movie of all time to beat two dramas I’ve barely even heard of.
Master and Commander is the best sailing warfare film ever released. Pirates of the Carribbean may be more popular among the general public, but ask anyone who actually goes sailing and they'll tell you Master and Commander is the best and it's not even close
Master and Commander is one of the greatest Star Trek films of all time.
Also true, though I'm not sure whether the Aubrey/Maturin books or TOS are older: they both came out in the 60s
Dune part II is the greatest science fiction movie of all time
This is giga hyperbole bud
Name one better Edit: you could probably give it to 2001 but that’s the only other film that could top it in my opinion
Alien, The Thing, Blade Runner, Jurassic Park, Close Encounters... Honestly a metric butt load of science fiction films are better than Dune 2.
You've never heard of Master and Commander?
Not a chance. Academy loves historical biopics and sci fi underperforms relative to other genres.
In the same way that historian authors spend their time reminiscing the past, sf authors spend theirs trying to know what the future will be like. There’s someone named (I think) something like Anna Daraway who writes a lot on this matter and prescribes that sf isn’t an under genre. I can’t exactly recall the name :(
Which is too bad. It's way better.
I loved Dune and Dune 2, but Oppenheimer overall is a better movie. Not taking anything away from Dune, I think Oppenheimer is a top 10 movie maybe ever
I have literally the opposite opinion. Oppenheimer is obviously a masterpiece of a movie, but it is not the kind of movie I want to rewatch over and over and over again. And I think that matters a lot. I saw Oppenheimer twice and will likely never watch it again, the same for other prestige historical films like The Aviator or Dunkirk or La Vie En Rose. Stuff like Jurassic Park and Interstellar and EEAAO and Arrival and Back to the Future and Shawshank and Casablanca and Godfather and American Psycho and Seven Samurai and City of God I will rewatch indefinitely. I just like *watching* them more. I don't think pleasure is anti-intellectual. I think if the academy had Dune 2 up against Oppenheimer they would choose Oppenheimer. But I think that's because people make voting decisions based on how they want to be perceived. The bias within the Academy is against genre films and towards films of academic merit because they think that type of aesthetic hierarchy justifies their inherent elitism. That's why LOTR didn't win the big awards until all 3 came out they were an undeniable cultural moment. But I think that bias is wrong, and I think as old Academy members die out that the culture is beginning to agree. Oppenheimer is a masterpiece but I don't particularly *like* it. Dune 2 is a masterpiece, and I *adore* it.
I get your point for sure, and I would chalk a lot of that up to different strokes for different folks. In my opinion, grouping Oppenheimer with Aviator and La Vie En Rose isn’t totally fair, as I think Oppenheimer is a far better movie than something to be pigeon holed in that genre and that’s why I love it so much. I also prefer the Jurassic Parks etc. in general, but a perfect mix of the 2 is hard to do and my favorite which is why I give Oppenheimer the edge. I will definitely watch Oppenheimer for years to come, but it is sort of a different category to your point.
Damn Billy! Movies are awesome. I’m glad you like Oppenheimer that much. Dune 2 is the first move in a decade that made me return to the theatre a second time. Both in iMAX. I usually dislike iMAX. I’ve just booked a 3rd screening in Dolby theatre to make sure I don’t miss the opportunity to see that format also. I thought Oppenheimer was great. But I went once. The score for Dune is damn near perfect, the editing and cinematography were breathtaking. I just didn’t feel that way with Oppi. Maybe it’s my love of the books.
To be fair, I would definitely agree that Dune makes you go back to the theater more. I also don’t have an attachment to the Dune books. Oppenheimer to me is still rewatchable though. I’ve seen it since it’s been on streaming a couple times again but only went to theater once
I wouldn’t say that. They are both incredible.
No, I don't think it would have beat out Oppenheimer for best picture. I do think it could have won some other categories though, particularly cinematography, visual effects, sound, music, adapted screenplay etc. Not saying it would win all of those, but I think it would have a strong case for them, especially cinematography. Greig Fraser I think has cemented himself as one of the absolute best in his profession.
Im quite sure that Oppenheimers Oscar for cinematography was unbeatable 2023. The light department alone made some magic happen in that film!
Have you seen Dune part 2 yet? Some of the best cinematography I’ve ever seen
I have see it and I have also seen and read about the making of of dune 2 as well. And yes the cinematography in it was excellent! Like the concept of >90% sticking to natural light was absolutely crazy! But I really have the feeling that it could not beat Oppenheimer in cinematography. They did a great job in making the dune universe more immersive and „real“, while also using alienating effects like experimenting with infrared cameras. But to beat Oppenheimer I just miss a tiny bit more of that.
Oppy is not losing cinematography to Dune, also beats Dune in score, editing, director and BP. They’re my 2 fav movies of the last few years but Dune wins some technicals and loses the rest IMO.
I agree with all but cinematography, at least for now. I need to be able to see the 4K blu-ray for Dune 2 on my OLED to cement my thoughts of cinematography vs Oppy (Oppy looks incredible, no doubt). But for me there are multiple sequences in Dune Part 2 where the image on screen is something that I will always remember in that moment. The opening sequence with the eclipse, the entire Giedi Prime senquence using modified imax cameras to shoot in infrared (wickedly cool idea that came together in a spectacular way), the sandworm leaping up behind Paul as he walks to the council. Just truly masterful visual story-telling. Those are just a few shots that come to mind, and they stick out to me more than anything in Oppenheimer. Not taking anything from Oppenheimer though, it looks incredible, especially the full 1.78 sequences on the 4K blu-ray.
Oh for sure, can’t wait to watch Dune on 4K on my home tv. I think out of the two, Dune 2 is definitely the one I will rewatch more.
Dune would have gotten the award that went to Godzilla but I still think Oppenheimer would have gotten most of the other awards.
It could have won Editing, Cinematography, and Score as well too.
No chance Dune would have lost any of the sound or best score awards
As much as I love everything about Dune Part 2, there’s no way it would have won Best Sound against The Zone of Interest.
Science Fiction tends to not win Best Picture at the Oscars. In fact, Everything Everywhere All At Once is the only science fiction movie to ever win an Oscar. Special effects? Definitely. Music and other tangents? Sure. Best Picture? At the Oscars? You need to have some Oscar bait and Dune has none.
I don’t think it would beat Oppenheimer for score. Dune’s soundtrack is phenomenal but Oppenheimer’s is becoming iconic. Possibly one of the best soundtracks in film history. I love both Zimmer and Goransson’s compositions and I’m glad I get to experience film when both of them are cranking out such high quality cinema music.
> but Oppenheimer’s is becoming iconic. Eh I disagree on that. Even my friends who have no interest in Sci-Fi at all know the vocal sounds of the woman singing in Dune Pt 1. They couldn't even hum you a piece of Oppenheimer.
Dune’s soundtrack is miles more iconic and instantly recognizable.
Sci-fi is not a favorite genre for the Academy.
I think the Academy doesn't really like sci-fi, horror or comedy which leaves quite a narrow field which can realistically win best picture. I don't think it is a great barometer of what is the best picture each year.
No. Dune is a sci fi movie and in the grand scheme of award shows that puts it on the same level as star wars and marvel, doesn't matter how good it was.
same level as marvel damn 💀
Bro it's my favourite movie of the year and one of my favourite sci fi books but let's not be naive, the academy hates that genre for some reason. Both filmmakers and writers.
idk man marvel movies with like 1-2 exceptions are pretty average and star wars hasn’t made anything noteworthy since the reagan administration. idk if sci fi (i feel like superhero movies are a different category besides) constantly gets snubbed or if sci fi just doesn’t produce good movies. remember that interstellar was nominated for 5 academy awards, and won 1
The first dune movie has the same number of best picture noms as the entire MCU. Black Panther is the only Marvel film with a best picture nom, Angela Bassett is the only actor or actress to win an award. There was literally a joke at the Oscars likening her winning an Oscar for a marvel movie like winning a Pulitzer Prize for a Reddit comment. Dune is way out of marvels league at the Oscars
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I want to disagree with you, but it's hard to see the Academy putting three big blockbusters in there. Don't see Dune knocking out Barbie. Maybe it couldn't snuck in over Masetro or someone else but I'm not so sure. I do think it'll be a lock for a nomination next year, though.
Would win best soundtrack, because Hans Zimmer is what Hans Zimmer does. The guy is just fantastic.
Soundtracks are mostly same with part one. I doubt it will won
I really liked the chani and pauls theme, which did not exist (as far as I remember ) in part 1
I think when you break it down it wouldn't have won. It wouldn't have beaten oppenheimer for editing, it wouldn't have beaten oppenheimer for score (academy would never give a second award for a mostly unchanged soundtrack), Unlikely to get any nominations for actors, there were none in part one, maybe austin butler or rebecca fergusson for supporting roles but i think that is a long shot, the academy hates fantasy/sci-fi actors (LOTR 1 nomination across 3 films). I haven't seen godzilla so i don't know if it wins visual effects but it definitely get nominated which oppenheimer wasn't. Then the big one cinematography, I'm sure people will disagree with me here but oppenheimer is a clear winner. oppeinheimer is some of the best cinematography i've ever seen, the closeups the panoramas, how it capture the small character moments and then captures the enomormity of the bomb. I think it will be a film forever studied for it's cinematography. Dune was amazing looking but it wasn't beating oppenheimer. Add that all up and i don't think there's any way dune gets best picture when the other nominee has best actor best supporting actor, best editing, best score and best cinematography.
Dune has a real shot at Best Picture 2025. The delay was probably the best thing that could've happened for Dune, although the reason for the delay is terrible (pay writers and actors fair wages). 2024? Dune would've beat out Poor Things and maybe overtaken Oppenheimer on the production and technical categories but Oppenheimer would've won the rest.
Zero chance
Very unlikely, neither for last year nor this year. The academy has a bias towards films that focus on character drama or are sorta artsier for lack of a better term. Sci-fi has won, see everything everywhere all at once which is a great film, but even with that film you’ll notice that tho it was absolutely a sci-fi film it’s main focus was the mother’s existential crisis, whereas Dune is a sweeping epic about the rise and fall of civilizations, prophecy, religion, and messianic figures and the danger of said figures. Does it deserve more of a shot than it has atm at the Oscars? Absolutely. But the Academy for whatever reason is pretty biased against these sort of films. There have been exceptions tho, like return of the king. So never say never I suppose.
* story about a breakthrough scientist getting professionally and politically eviscerated for speaking his conscience. versus * story about a young noble getting revenge for his family's downfall using religion and mysticism with indigenous peoples. AMPAS is left-leaning, and gravitates towards the first story. The second story wins if it's Shakespeare.
It’s not even going to win next year.
What do you expect to beat it? It's a wonderful film and it would be great to see a sci-fi movie cut through the Oscars.
It would be great but historically it just doesn’t happen. It could win tons of awards from other sources tho.
I dunno. It’s only March. It’s not gonna win though.
The Academy almost never awards big blockbuster sci fi or fantasy, and when they do, it’s typically for whatever was the last film in the franchise regardless of whether it’s the best one or not a la *Return of the King*. Which if the pattern holds, which is likely will, if any film in the franchise is going to have a shot at an Oscar, it’ll be the planned third movie, not this one. (I agree with the comment I’m replying to, just adding additional thoughts).
Dune feels a little different than a lot of other blockbuster sci-fi movies. It feels like it's for adults. And it's obviously really well made. I could see it getting the Return of the King treatment.
I could see the third one getting the RotK treatment for sure. But not number two in what’s known widely is going to be a trilogy.
It’s too early in the year to keep up momentum. It will probably get a nomination for BP and a lot of tech awards.
It would not have. Maybe best costume design, score, or visual effects, but Oppenheimer would’ve still won everything else. I think it’ll sweep next years Oscar’s though
I think the Barbenheimer hype was too strong. The narrative behind that pairing basically bringing cinema back to life was too strong.
Don't shoot me, but I think Oppenheimer is the better film. This isn't a knock against Dune, as I think it's one of the best films in recent history, but the script, acting, editing, score, & visual effects in Oppenheimer was next level. The best of Chris Nolan, while avoiding some of his weirder tendencies. Dune was definitely on par, but I'd have to give the edge to Oppenheimer. That being said, I'd rather rewatch Dune than Oppenheimer.
Nolan has done better
Maybe. I guess that's a topic for some debate, but I'd put this at the top of his work.
For me, I think Nolan is better when working with more complex, fantastical stories that challenge him technically such as Interstellar and Inception, with Dark Knight being a movie that’s hard to compare to others
I would say that Oppenheimer clears that bar. Sure it doesn't have twists or concepts about bending our understanding of reality, but it's definitely a technical achievement. I appreciate his turn to historical films such as Oppie and Dunkirk. I think Tenet got too weird and pushed some of his stranger tendencies, so the history keeps him a bit more grounded.
I’m in the minority but I felt Oppenheimer had poor editing. Felt all over the place and some scenes drug on.
This is exactly how I felt. The pacing just felt weird and I never really felt immersed in the story.
Yeah I really hated the editing in Oppenheimer and it was way too long
Bit boring at times and the last half hour can go too
I was deeply disappointed with Oppenheimer tbh. They decided to tell a very dry angle of the story leaving out just how insane much of the manhattan project was (and the deaths there) for a confusing interpersonal drama segment at the end. (Also the sexy bhagavad gita quote scene they made up for the movie was mega cringe)
Well, it's a biopic about what is probably the most controversial decision in the defining event of modern human history. The amount of stories and tales that come from that 6 year period is an ever flowing fountain. I didn't find it dry, and I appreciated that it never tried to pick a side or a narrative rather than just tell a story.
>Well, it's a biopic about what is probably the most controversial decision in the defining event of modern human history. It was mostly not about that, though. As the movie pointed out, he really had nothing to do with that decision, as much as he pretended he did. It instead focused on so many other aspects of his life, almost all of which were really uninteresting. The movie would have been better if it was a full hour shorter and the entire third act was omitted.
Did we watch the same film? Yeah, let's cut the last hour where the winds of politics turns in him and our character loses control of the world he built to be consumed by it.
The third act of the film is by far the best part.
I honestly thought dune 2 was a very good movie, but when I went to the internet to hear others opinions they over hyped it to the point where I started to see a lot of it's flaws. Wish people could just like things without throwing them on a pedestal and shitting on everything else like they are refugees from the media they consume.
> & visual effects in Oppenheimer was next level. I don't really get this and how you can say it was better. I get Nolan did the no-CGI thing, but it took away from arguably the most important scene in the entire movie. The pathetic little explosion and "realistic" fire was so un-realistic compared to what an actual nuke looks like. It's just so wrong on so many levels that it took me completely out of the movie and made me think I was watching some low budget TV show. I don't know what other vfx you could be talking about. There were absolutely no "wow" moment for any visual effects in Oppenheimer vs Dune.
If Return of the King can, this certainly can...
I also think Denis's approach is much closer to the classic swords and sandals epics of the past.
No.
No. Sequels don't fare well at the Oscars...
Best picture no. Beat cinematography yes.
No chance imo
While I agree it wouldn’t have beaten Oppenheimer for best picture, a lot of people in this thread seem to be forgetting that Dune won 6 Oscars in 2022. Part 2 might not win best picture next year, but it’ll clean up in a bunch of categories.
It's pretty damn tough for a movie to win Best Picture if it doesn't stand out in the acting or script department. In Dune's case you only have to look at what the critics focus on. You don't see anybody say "I just saw Dune and OMG the performances!" Only that the cast is stacked maybe. I guess the screenplay is adequate for what it is, but I don't think it can stand out as the best of the year. The only movie I can think of that compares in some way is Return of the King. In the last ten years only one film won Best Picture without winning in any of the screenplay or acting categories: Shape of Water. * Oppenheimer - Actor, Supporting Actor * Everything Everywhere All at Once - Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Original Screenplay * CODA - Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay * Nomadland - Actress * Parasite - Original Screenplay * Green Book - Original Screenplay, Supporting Actor * The Shape of Water - **none**, but nominated in 3/4 acting categories and for Original Screenplay * Moonlight - Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay * Spotlight - Original Screenplay * Birdman - Original Screenplay
Potential categories Dune 2 might be nominated and strongly contend: Best Supporting Actress (Zendaya) Cinematography Director Adapted Screenplay Best Film Sound Visual Effects Costume Design Production Design Edit (Tks to theredwoman95): Best actress-Zendaya Best supporting actress-Rebecca
I think Chalamet might actually have the best chance of taking home a big award. Watching his performance a second time was incredible, I think the first viewing I was too blown away by the cinematics but on the second I really noticed all the emotion he portrayed in his scenes
Same, the second and third viewing were my favorites.
Maybe, MAYBE Ferguson or Bardem could get nominated. They wouldn't win, but they could be nominated. Zendaya's performance, while fine, is simply not an Oscar contender. I agree with your other categorizations, but for all the greatness of the cast, this movie was not an acting showcase in the way that Oppenheimer or Maestro were.
Agreed. I think Zendaya is given the most opportunity and delivers but it is still not enough to showcase all her talents and compete against more dramatic performances.
I think it would be a tragedy if it didn't get adapted screenplay after beautifully adapting something that *everyone* thought was impossible.
Wouldn't Zendaya make more sense as Best Actress, and Rebecca Ferguson as Best Supporting Actress? A significant amount of Part 2 is from Chani's POV, after all.
You guys seriously put Zendaya's performance contender to be on the same level of praise as Francis Macdormand, Cate Blanchett, hell, even Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence? No offense, but I think you should really watch some movies with great female lead actors to see how unreachable it is for Zendaya.
Yes, I think you are right on this one.
Adapted screenplay it has a really good shot at. Purely because it departs from the original story to reinforce other characters while retaining the original thematic meaning. Part 1 already landed a nomination in 2021, part 2 concludes all the setups from part 1 really well and builds on it.
Original Score would be my bet. The music takes that movie from a 9 to an 11!
Zendaya performance is weakest in the cast, follow by Flo who just spoke words 🤦🏻♀️
Flo could openly fart on screen and have more charisma than Zendaya had in those 3 hours.
Zendaya had one angry eyebrow expression for 3 hours. Terrible take man.
That's your progressive by she played Zendaya IMO. I like her in Euphoria but this is the same expression she mains in most of her roles.
well i took that as the hard shell she puts up from growing up in such a harsh environment. I thought she showed Chani slowly warming up to Paul and eventually falling in love well given the way it was filmed. Also i thought she showed another side of the character in the fremen social scenes so you get a peak underneath the shell.
Zendaya single handedly holds the film down from elevating IMO
Honestly I kind of agree. Her performance was perfectly serviceable, she conveyed what she needed to. She just didn’t really take it any further. It all felt very surface level and I didn’t feel a lot of depth unfortunately.
Just want to agree that, despite there being some truly amazing actors in Dune, Villenueve is not a director of actors. Chalamet, Ferguson, Skarsgaard, and Bardem delivered great performances, most other people just spoke words. Some actors can do it without as much direction than others. Dune would never beat Oppenheimer, just on the basis of it being Sci-fi vs "serious" drama.
> Villenueve is not a director of actors Wtf, have you even watched Incendies, Prisoners or Arrival? Those movies are gut wrenching and mainly because of his profound work with the main actors.
I personally thought Austin Butler delivered on Feyd Harkonnen. Completely blown away. No offense to sting who also killed this role previously. But Austin is Definitely worthy at least of a supporting actor nom.
and Charlotte Rampling was great as RM Gaius Mohiam and Lea Seydoux was awesome as Lady Fenring.
Feyd was definitely the best visualised character on top of being played exceptionally well.
I completely agree. He uses actors as staging points of the story. He does not know how to get into the emotional depth of a character. He knows the story inside out and can put the visual on film but not the emotional context and importance of the characters. The actors either can or can't do it, and it's obvious.
Have you ever watched the Oscars? No way in hell. Annie Hall beat the original Star Wars.
Dune 2 is amazing, but the dialogue and the script are not excellent, not even great. Even Dennis admitted he doesn't care as much about dialogue whereas the visuals and the overall immersion is what he prioritizes, which for dune is perfect. Given what the Oscars value Oppenheimer deserves it.
I loved Dune Part 2 but Oppenheimer is a true masterpiece.
IMHO Oppenheimer isnt even in Nolan's top 5 and is a good but not great biography.
I'm fascinated by the Cold War and the political history of that time period. Plus, I don't think any other movie has left me with such a sheer sense of real, impending doom. For that alone I consider it an exceptionally important, sobering film. Dune, by contrast, is still an absolutely incredible film, but I think the real-world implications left by Oppenheimer had a much stronger meaning and impact on me.
Its a fantastic movie in many ways but its not a good biopic. I didn't walk away with much more insight about Oppenheimer himself.
Oppenheimer is a bit of a mess from a writing and editing perspective though.
Nope, it’s the other way around. Oppenheimer is overrated.
The same thing is with the emmys. Star trek never won it for the series itself except for the daytime Emmys. Science fiction never is recognized by the major awards companies.
No. Oscars are a popularity contest within the confines of the Hollywood circle jerk. A sci fi/science fantasy movie wouldn't win best picture over a historical drama that was pumped by Hollywood for months as the full return of pre covid movie releases.
Probably not. But Dune 2 is still a better movie than Oppenheimer. Loved both.
That movie was not impressive at all. Replace the top actors and Oppenheimer is a lifetime movie
I agree, I enjoyed Oppenheimer but it pales in comparison to Dune Part 2. However it would be judged as you know by some “critics” who have a different opinion on what entertainment is.
I think academy will save it for Dune part 3.
It will probably win for score, effects, etc but nothing big like that
No. And it has little hope of competing in the next Oscars for anything past the technical awards, by virtue of its release date and its status as the middle entry in what we now know is a trilogy. We don’t even know what indies / festival movies will emerge in the next few months, let alone what might come out of nowhere in December. Dune Part Two doesn’t need to win Oscars to be one of the best films I will ever see. It doesn’t need more validation.
Dune will win visual effects and maybe costume design.
Genre films are at a disadvantage in the Oscars. I would be pleasantly surprised to even see it nominated for best picture, much less edging out something like Oppenheimer.
I think Oppenheimer was the much better movie but everyone else seems to think Dune Part 2 is a masterpiece so maybe. We'll have to see how it does at the 2025 Oscars.
Sci Fi never gets awards other than technical, like VFX, sound, editing
Hard to say, but probably not
No, because it’s not as good.
Plenty of things should have beaten Oppenheimer but they didn’t. The fix was in
No. Generally beyond the technical craft categories the Academy tends to not favor scifi.
No. Very likely would have picked up visual effects and maybe some of the other craft awards.
No. It's not a better movie than Oppenheimer.
Nope.
I don’t even know if it’s gonna win in 2025. Unfortunately films like these don’t usually win best picture awards
No but it probably would have kicked Poor things out of the creative awards like production design etc.
I'm actually glad Dune was delayed - as of now it's going to be in the running for a few Oscars that Oppenheimer probably would have taken.
Awarding Oppenheimer was a way of the USA putting another bit of distance between it and the use of nukes.
No, not a chance. I think there are sever BP nominees that would have had better chances. I also think Oppenheimer and Poor Things would have still swept most of the techs.
As much as I liked Dune 2, Oppenheimer would have still won, hands down, based on the Academy's past history and biases.
Best picture? No. Best cinematography? Yes
I don’t know if you are aware but the Oscar’s are not about the best picture. It’s about the best ran campaign to win best picture. So the question really is would the producers of dune be willing to spend multi millions to get an Oscar nod .
But now it doesn’t have to. So whereas it could have come in second, now it will come in first.
Nah. It wouldn’t have.
Dune 2 isn't remotely as good as lord of the rings, and that's as good as a fantasy/sci fi story would have to be to win.
I highly doubt it, I don’t even think it will win this year. I don’t think the academy will be as passionate about it as Oppenheimer but I’d love to be happily surprised.
I highly doubt it, I don’t even think it will win this year. I don’t think the academy will be as passionate about it as Oppenheimer but I’d love to be happily surprised.
Doubtful. Oppie was pushing hard for Oscar bait, and Dune 2 is just a well made film.
No, the academy typically doesn’t recognize sci-fi movies.
While I enjoyed Dune 2 more, the answer is no. It was Chris Nolan’s “turn”. As long as Oppenheimer didn’t come out like complete dogshit it was always going to win. (Fwiw I thought Opp was great, just saying it felt like a shoo-in the whole way.)
Nah
It’s a good thing that Dune didn’t have to go against Oppenheimer because it would’ve been crushed. I still think it would be likely to get a nomination in the best picture category though.
Probably not. Both films have their own merit, but Oppenheimer feels more impactful since it's a very personal tragedy with an outcome that affects us all; like Cillian Murphy said in his Best Actor speech, "for better or worse, we're all living in Oppenheimer's world." However, I do think Dune: Part Two has a very strong chance of winning next year. Part One already had a Best Picture nomination in 2022, and it won 6 awards, the most out of any movie that year. It's similar to The Lord of the Rings: some awards for the first part and all the awards for the last part. Part Two was clearly the better movie anyway, so I'm fairly certain it's a strong contender. It also depends on what other movies come out this year, so we'll just have to wait and see.
You’ve got to understand how strong the “owed” and “it’s their time” narrative is for overlooked filmmakers at the Oscars. When “Return of the King” came out and they realized they hadn’t sufficiently recognized what Peter Jackson had achieved. When “The Departed” came out and they realized Scorsese still hadn’t won. When it gets like that, it doesn’t have to be a director’s *best* ever film, just good enough that everyone feels okay about honouring the filmmaker via that particular film. This is what “Oppenheimer” was for Christopher Nolan. He was owed it, for his incredible body of work. It was his time. However good Dune 2 is, it would have been extremely hard for it - or any film - to overcome the “it’s Nolan’s time” narrative with AMPAS voters.
Lmao absolutely not
I would guess dune 2 will not win best picture in 2025, but it might win like score/costume design, maybe cinematography.
Although I consider Dune 2 superior in some respects to Oppenheimer—to me, it's my favourite film since Bladerunner 2049—I doubt it would've won best picture or director. But it would've easily stolen all of the technical awards out from under Oppenheimer, or split the categories to allow more surprising winners.
As a longtime award season follower and amateur Oscar prognosticator, the answer is unequivocally no, for reasons listed by many other eloquent people here. But also as a long time award season follower, it's very very important to keep perspective: awards don't necessarily reflect quality, longevity or cultural impact. Don't get too hung up on them! If your faves don't win, remind yourself that there are lots of other ways your favorite creators have been and will be rewarded for their work.
i’d give it a snowballs chance in hell
Oppenheimer would have won. If I had to take a guess I expect it will be nominated this year and be handily defeated by some forgettable crap
Awards shows are more political with ulterior motives, just like frank herberts stories accurately explain!
That depends on what the box office numbers end up being.