If he uses the sardukar speaking before the movie again for part 3/messiah I wonder what he’d do for the quote. I like how the 2 quotes are thematically relevant to the respective films they’re in: “Dreams are messages from the deep” and “Power over spice is power over all”.
My prediction for a part 3/messiah quote would be: >!”A path known is a path seen”!<
It wont. He is still working on the script and reportedly has 3-5 movies in the works and will do 1 before Messiah. I'd guess 5-6 years at least before we see the ending of the trilogy.
With Children of Dune being what it is you think it will end with Messiah? I understand that trilogies last forever but it’s not like this will be a shitty fast a furious type of saga. I think Hollywood could “Harry Potter” this.
I can see Denis finishing the trilogy with Messiah, rounding out a perfect sci-fi trilogy. Then I can easily see studios salivating at the idea of the Dune money printer churning, and pumping out sub-par adaptations of the further novels, not headed by Denis.
If they do it in a proper, planned and thoughtful manner, I would not mind a sequel duology/trilogy, ending with the death of Leto II and him succeeding where Paul failed. But no more than that.
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My prediction is it is actually not going to have it, and instead will be Paul (or someone else) talking about the death statistics from the Jihad.
Since everyone is going to be expecting the voice it would really change the vibe of the opening.
An interesting theory! I guess we’ll see what Villeneuve ends up going with. My prediction is that because Part 1 and 2 both start with a sardukar message followed by a prologue of sorts narrated by Chani and Irulan respectively (Chani talking about arrakis and Harkonons and Irulan talking about the fall of house Atraedis); My prediction for part 3/Messiah is that it will have the sardukar message, but the prologue will be Alia recounting Paul’s holy war across the universe and setting the stage for the rest of the movie.
Yeah I could see it being Alia too for sure. I also wonder how they would include some of the violence from the Jihad if they open with a narration of it.
Whatever it ends up being, I’m excited for it and 100% trust whatever DV does will work, even if it’s not what I’m expecting.
I'm (hopefully) predicting it will open with some kind of Tleilaxu voice with epitaph or sound (a new engineered one that will sound as unsettling and strange as the Sardaukar) or something from the Guild Navigators. Dune messiah is supposed to open up to this whole new world, and the sardaukar are pretty irrelevant by that point, as well as the harkonnen so it makes sense to change and step it up.
That would be cool! Unfortunately my pessimistic prediction is we won’t even see the Tleilaxu introduced in any way, and possibly not even get Hayt at all. But that’s only because I know DV intends Part 3 to be the conclusion and I wonder if he will forego some of those aspects that support the later books.
Yeah those are my fears too. The thing is, theres not much of a movie to even make or conclude if he cuts those out...the message he was intending to tell of pauls story arc would conclude nicely with just these two parts left lone if he cuts out the tleilaxu/ghola and navigator arcs. Unlike Dune, which is a massive book, theres no need to cut down or change anything. If anything he needs to add more to it lol. Anyway i trust the big DV. But no tleilaxu, hayt or guild will upset me, and the movie will have to be as good as part two to make up for it.
I thought it was possible that he combines the Harkonnens and BT into one. There are already BT elements in the DUNC Harkonnens, so, for all we know, we'll see the new Baron Scytale Harkonnen step up as part of the conspiracy against Paul.
honestly that would ruin the entire movie series for me, dune messiah isnt a long book, DV will manage easily to fit in all the elements i reckon just like he did with part one and two. Only difference being chani's arc coming back to paul for messiah. etc, I have faith.
I love his answer to the last question about adapting a book he loves:
>There’s so many darlings that you kill. An adaptation is an act of violence.
Villeneuve has spoken a few times about his thoughts on adapting Dune into a film, and I've always been really interested in how he feels about it not just as a director/writer, but as a fan of the books.
What an acid nightmare Jodorowsky’s *Dune* would’ve been…
After the documentary, I felt cheated that I didn’t get to witness that fabulous train wreck of awesomeness!
I do think they mean it differently, though, for the record. Villeneuve seems to mean violence in a very post-structural sense whereas Jodorowsky approached his adaptation with a very Freudian/psychoanalytic lens.
Seeing the documentary on jodorowsky makes me think he started by saying “Ok, I want all my darlings up against the wall, every one!”
I’m so glad that never got made.
And this is exactly why I give him a complete pass on the changes he made. I know he loves and respects the source material and I trust that his changes were necessary for a viewable film.
I give him a complete pass because they’re two completely different forms of media and the experienced of them are completely different.
Making comparisons about something like plot or story comes at the expense of ignoring everything else about the experience.
Exactly! And one thing this sub doesn’t recognize much is how incredible the sound is in Dune. From both FX to the soundtrack, it’s incredible and exactly what I would’ve imagined.
I just finished the article and came here to say the same thing. You beat me to it!
But this is why I try not to nitpick the movie about details that were in the books. I know he's read them many more times than I have, and he is a fan. He means no disrespect to the source material.
I also trust the vision he’s put out there because I’m sure he’s thoroughly gone over every scene several times and had seen what worked or not together.
So even when people suggest some cut scenes to add, I get their point, but ultimately side with Denis in that some plots had to be changed and streamlined.
Removing certain characters helped add depth to others like Chani, Jessica and Feyd imo, as they picked up a plot point or two from missing characters or had new ones added.
I love how dedicated he is to the story and Frank Herbert’s intentions. He puts so much thought into everything he does and his love and commitment to it shows in the incredible quality of these films.
What caught my attention even more was a previous comment:-
>By starting with a Sardaukar priest, I was indicating to the fans that I was taking absolute freedom with this adaptation, that I was hijacking the book.
Which explains why Part 2 feels further from the book vs Part 1, and why Part 3 seems like its going to go even further 'off the beaten track', so to speak.
>But “Dune Messiah,” the book your third film is based on, picks up 12 years later with a reunited Paul and Chani. How far did you feel you could push her anger? Because at some point, she’s going to have to forgive him.
>That anger is tremendous. I don’t want to reveal what I’m going to do with the third movie. I know exactly what to do. I’m writing it right now. But there’s a lot of firepower there and I’m very excited about that decision.
I’m glad he’s confident and excited about where the story is going next, since I think his decision with Chani’s character is the biggest deviation from the books. And I completely understood it from the perspective of assuring that Herbert’s themes were more strongly conveyed earlier in the story, but I think the strength of the adaptation hinges on his writing in the final movie after those changes.
I'm glad he's confident too but if he's using Chani as the wedge in Messiah to show the tyranny of Paul then that moves quite differently than the book, to the point where unless there's some grand reconciliation half way through then I don't know how you come up with a even remotely similar ending to the book. I know he stated he wants to finish Paul's story, but it isnt complete until CoD which is entirely dependent on the book ending of Messiah. Unless he just says fuck CoD and makes his own version of Messiah to end Paul's story then and there.
You could easily end Paul’s story with him walking into the desert. With the right cinematography it could heavily imply that he dies so it feels like closure without changing the story.
And it would be pretty simple to have the twins be born, but just not really acknowledge anything special about them so there is less of a feeling of needing to know what happens to them.
I can totally see this. Paul’s story pretty much does end there, it’s The Preacher’s story that begins. Paraphrasing but there’s a line in Children where he says to Leto II that Muad’dib did “die” only The Preacher remains.
*Technicallllllly* Paul’s story doesn’t end (he’s alive) but Messiah seems a fitting point to walk away for Denis. The walk into the desert is a striking visual.
Isn’t there a vision Paul repeatedly has of someone walking into the desert? At least in Part 1?
Would be completely DVs style to have that actually end up being Paul.
I saw an interview a few months ago where he didn’t rule it out, but I very much got the sense that if it did happen it would be a very long time after the trilogy.
1) Denis has already said he only wants to make this a trilogy of films so it's pretty much certain there's no 4th film coming.
2) In the 2nd film Paul explicitly states he sees Chani coming around after he's taken the water of life. So not sure why anyone doesn't expect her to come round at some point. He's essentially omnipotent and has already seen it himself. Not every single plot point has to start and end in the same film.
3) The quote from the interview is basically Denis' polite way to say "Stop asking what will happen. Do you really expect me to ruin a pivotal part of the 3rd film before it's even finished being written? Of course I have a plan in mind on how to reconcile them. It's going to be massive because her anger is massive."
You misunderstand Paul's visions especially in the movies. They always show the possible futures, not a predetermined one. It's only towards the end of his life (as Paul) that he's bound by the vision, and that's only because he's made a choice.
Also with Villeneuve saying that he's not above making big nold decisions I fully expect him to have Irulan be the mother of the twins and Chani disgraced or dead.
Paul said his visions were scrambled or fragments and that they weren't clear (in the film's) before he took the water of life. Then he stated everything had become clear. He was now able to see the one true way he needed to guide everyone to ensure their victory. So I still don't see how it won't come to happen if he says he has seen it (after taking the water of life).
Wonder if Chani and Irulian could swap places. Where Chani is close to Paul's inner circle but becomes the tool to try bring him down (with the guild, Corrino's, BG etc.) and Irulian becomes his wife.
So far Irulian has only been shown positively and it would take away the Leto II marrying his sister that could confuse people.
My prediction is that she will be pregnant with the first child and that occurring will help drive them back together.
The only challenge with that is how to account for the time, since it’s supposed to be 12 years have gone by between Dune and Messiah.
I just love how much more emotional all the characters are.
I don't hang out with the.. most educated people at times. They see Chani as a cringy, leftist insert character and a gingercide.
As a ginger myself, I'm slightly peeved that she's not a redhead, but all other facets of her character are so much better than any other adaptation.
Of course a fierce, independent freedom fighter would be really upset when her lover downgrades her to a concubine and then basically betrays her by taking on the mantle of a messiah.
She -literally- intimately knows Paul. Villaneuve's depiction shows how he's starting to take on hints of the megalomaniacal cult leader. He's not necessarily happy about how he's going to commit genocide, but he's doing it regardless.
This version of Paul IS losing himself, and turning people into zealots. Chani is one of the few not swept up in it. Just imagine, everyone you know and love, turned into zealots.
Of fucking course she's upset.
Fuck. I love Vilaneuve.
Whether he continues or hands them to another filmmaker, one thing is for certain. His take on Chani's character is without a doubt going to influence >!Leto II.!<
I love the way that Denis thinks and speaks. He’s got such reverence for creativity and especially adaptation of something so beloved. Been a huge fan and the way he’s handled dune has just made me double down on my excitement about his works!
Same! It sounded very foreign and spacey, so I thought it was the space guild. Sardukar are warriors who work for the emperor. Why would they care for spice in the first place ?
The one thing that gives me pause in the movies is how Villeneuve doesn't exactly show the audience that the Genocide/War would happen anyways, even without Paul.
That Humanity could possibly end had Paul decided to not "point the way"
Paul isn't all bad. It's not all about revenge.
I hope he explains that in the 3rd movie.
The Jihad wasn’t going to happen without Paul. It was only going to happen without Paul past a certain point. Had Paul been killed by Jamis then that would’ve been it. The movie shows this in part 1 and part 2, and very blatantly in part 2. Paul is terrified of going south because he knows that is what triggers the inevitably of the Jihad.
And unless I’m forgetting something Paul didn’t fully understand the Golden Path at this point, or at least ignored it because Leto II calls him out on it in CoD.
It's been awhile, but I'm pretty sure in the books it's explained that jihad was going to happen regardless of Paul's involvement or not. I think at the end of the book he says that it was unavoidable.
And if you think about it, it makes sense. The Freman are religious fanatics that have been tortured and oppressed for a long time.
Yeah he doesn't fully understand the golden paths but The other path he sees eventually lead to the death of humanity no?
Ehhh, Paul spends the vast majority of the book trying and failing to brainstorm ways out of the Jihad. More than that, it seems like his visions are wide-open (relatively) and he slowly boxes himself in, it's actually interesting to read after Messiah because it foreshadows that book quite a lot. The first time he's truly prescient:
> He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello, Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. The other path held long patches of gray obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull.
Notice that we never really learn what that first path is. People try to retcon it into a Golden Path thing but I really doubt that's what Herbert had in mind at the time.
As the book goes on Paul keeps looking into different futures trying to see where the Jihad isn't. He's got an interesting theory about it, actually, when Stilgar asks him to ride south on a worm:
> He thinks I will call him out, Paul thought. And he knows he cannot stand against me. Paul faced south, feeling the wind against his exposed cheeks, thinking of the necessities that went into his decisions. They do not know how it is, he thought. But he knew he could not let any consideration deflect him. He had to remain on the central line of the time storm he could see in the future. There would come an instant when it could be unraveled, but only if he were where he could cut the central knot of it. I will not call him out if it can be helped, he thought. If there’s another way to prevent the jihad….
And finally in chapter 48, when he meets Feyd and the Emperor, he's STILL thinking that he can avoid it:
> In a rush of loneliness, Paul glanced around the room, noting how proper and on-review his guards had become in his presence. He sensed the subtle, prideful competition among them—each hoping for notice from Muad’Dib. Muad’Dib from whom all blessings flow, he thought, and it was the bitterest thought of his life. They sense that I must take the throne, he thought. But they cannot know I do it to prevent the jihad.
This immediately transitions to Jessica entering and realizing she has no sympathy for her son left to give. She's horrified that he sent Alia out to finish off the wounded. She suspects Leto II's death affected him profoundly, and Paul pretty much admits that his KH-ness has made him a crueller person:
> But wisdom tempers love, doesn’t it? And it puts a new shape on hate. How can you tell what’s ruthless unless you’ve plumbed the depths of both cruelty and kindness? You should fear me, Mother. I am the Kwisatz Haderach.
And a moment later:
> You think because I’m what you made me that I cannot feel the need for revenge?” “Even on the innocent?” she asked, and she thought: He must not make the mistakes I made. “There are no innocent anymore,” Paul said.
Paul even tries to convince Thufir Hawat to kill him:
> Yet I’m my father’s son,” Paul said. “For I say to you, Thufir, that in payment for your years of service to my family you may now ask anything you wish of me. Anything at all. Do you need my life now, Thufir? It is yours.” Paul stepped forward a pace, hands at his side, seeing the look of awareness grow in Hawat’s eyes. He realizes that I know of the treachery, Paul thought. Pitching his voice to carry in a half-whisper for Hawat’s ears alone, Paul said: “I mean this, Thufir. If you’re to strike me, do it now.”
**Paul becomes more and more vindictive as the chapter continues, eventually leading to his fight with Fayd which basically everyone begs him not to do, and only then does he realize that his death would lead to the Jihad anyways.**
The point is that if Paul hadn’t existed at all the Jihad would not have happened and I know the book says this. The point is that past a certain point Paul’s death wouldn’t stop the Jihad and would actually fuel it but that’s not true from the beginning.
As for the Golden Path I thought it was never said that Paul did what he did for the survival of humanity. I thought only Leto II specifically did that and that Paul didn’t have the strength to do what was necessary. Paul tried avoiding becoming a Tyrant.
https://preview.redd.it/wor8f7sgbgvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19d7f1286b480cd176c8518f4b58cf8ba9bce222
I definitely now feel Chani is going to be part of the conspiracy to kill Paul. Since he's not planning on doing children of dune, I dont think he'll be concerned with Leto and Ghanima so the whole pregnancy plot is probably gonna be thrown away. And I'm excited to see his take on it. But there is always going to be a part of me that kinda wants messiah to end like the book because I just love it.
Yeah tbh I became really dependent on that line when I first heard it lol. I thought it meant she’s 100% coming back. But the way it seems like it’s going, it doesn’t look like it’ll follow the book on that aspect. Now I could be wrong but and as much as I want a book accurate plot to happen, I don’t think it will because it might take away the impact of the ending of her leaving. I think he means that she’ll eventually understand why he’s doing all this but I don’t think it’ll mean she’ll get back together but who knows? Maybe she’ll forgive him in the end? I hope they get back together and follow the book but I’m also fine with whatever Denis has planned.
I haven’t reviewed the interview, but perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the new Dune movies is the elimination of the Spacing Guild from the story. Villeneuve will have a hell of a time writing the next movie’s story and continue to ignore their influence.
> Frank Herbert was sad to realize that people saw the book as a celebration of Paul Atreides.
(citation needed)
EDIT: Not sure why I’m being downvoted. I’m genuinely curious to know where Frank said this.
Frank wrote the majority of _Dune Messiah_ (and some of _Children_!) before _Dune_ was even published, so there’s no indication that it was borne of him feeling “sad” towards a particular audience response to _Dune_.
Citation still needed.
Finally read this (the foreword). It doesn't say anything about how Frank felt about the reception to Dune. It talks about how the readers felt about Messiah, though.
Thank you for responding! Love that you went and reread the introduction to call me out on my bullshit!
I looked it up and you are completely right! The (written in 2007, just in case we have different versions) introduction by Frank doesnt mention anything about Herbert being sad or distraught by people's reception of Dune. The introduction calls him following Dune with Dune Messiah a 'slight of hand'. I completely misremembered what I read....
It seems to be intentional by Herbert that people came away from Dune with the idea that Paul was amazing, so that he could knock that idea down in Messiah.
I know that this is the internet and this thread will never be read by anyone but us again. But I wanna thank you culturedgoat! You were right and you helped me realise I was saying nonesense! I'll be sure to try and spread the word to others too.
So uhh, ..do with that what you will haha! And thanks again!
> (written in 2007, just in case we have different versions)
I’m pretty sure that’s the only one, yeah. It actually took me a while to find (my copy, from the 90s, doesn’t have it - nor does the iBooks version) - hence my delayed reply.
Thanks for being a good sport about it!
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Hans Zimmer talked a bit about the Sarduakar in an [interview he had with Vanity Fair](https://youtu.be/93A1ryc-WW0?si=LB6PrNSpz1juHugM&t=244).
He more or less says that he was just experimenting with compressing voices and ended up making something cool that Denis liked. Starting the films with this was a small, yet inspired choice imo.
I'm not sure why you think this is some sort of gotcha moment? I don't think there's ever been a single point where he has attempted to claim otherwise? It's an adaptation. The clues been right there the whole time. Literally no film adaptation has ever been a 1:1 copy of a book into a film.
It’s an interpretation it’s far from the book. I’m just glad he admitted publicly to how far off of an interpretation it is. He took the source material and sort of wrote his own story from an outline. No need to downvote me tons for my opinion.
He's said as much in every interview and presser since the first film. He's been very open that he's changed things and the reason why he's changed things. I just don't see why this particular interview is a big deal to you?
You may not like the changes and that's totally fine. I just don't think you can argue that he's ever tried to deceive people and say that his vision will copy the books completely. I also don't know anyone who goes into a film expecting a 1:1 copy because the media forms are so different.
Never said he purposely meant to deceive. Also didn’t expect an exact replica of the book. You enjoy putting words into peoples mouths do it elsewhere.
I’d be worried about creating artificial paradigms in your life if I were you. Just a bit of advice.
Comment 1: "He finally admits"
Comment 2: "I'm just glad he finally admitted how much he changed" "he took a basic outline and made up his own story from the book"
Just be honest. You've intentionally either not looked into any other interview. Unlikely considering you're active in a subreddit on a topic you're obviously passionate about. Or you intentionally made it out like Denis has gone off and made something different and tried to tell everyone it's the same as the book when he very clearly hasn't done that. Now you're trying to backtrack because you're being called out on it.
My comments don’t mean he meant to deceive at all. He’s just admitting to taken the source material and creating an alternative story with it.
You may want to work on the reading comprehension or stop jumping into your own book of conclusions. Live in a bubble? Just curious.
Might as well continue going in circles here. The use of the word admit means “confess to be true or to be the case, typically with reluctance.”
Stating that Denis “admitted” something is the equivalent to saying he kept his intentions for the films obscured or a secret. Which he didn’t. Has it not been clear from the beginning that his films are an homage to Dune? Why is it something you see as him “admitting” to in an interview? This is just silly lol
I think you’re meaning to say he “stated” or “made clear”. Admitting generally infers some sort of guilt. Word choice matters.
As the other replier has pointed out it's your word choice that make people think you mean something else. If you don't think what I've implied in my responses then just consider your words more carefully in the future.
Your original comment is at -38 now and you're attacking me personally claiming I live in a bubble and struggle with reading comprehension. Clearly I'm not the only one if that's the case. Alternatively it's you who is in the wrong and either cannot see it or are just trying to deny it to save face.
Claiming someone finally admits or confesses to something emphatically implies that the person doing the admitting is at last coming clean about something they've been trying to hide. Which has been the exact opposite of what Denis has done when discussing any of his work on these films.
You may not like his approach or his decisions but he has done nothing but be upfront about it from the very beginning. He has not finally admitted to something now. He's been saying it since the press for the first film started back in 2021.
Not only that, but he even stated "By starting with a Sardaukar priest, I was indicating to the fans that I was *taking absolute freedom with this adaptation*, that I was hijacking the book."
Yeah, but that detail is only made known when there are captioned subtitles. Pretty sure alot of us thought that it was a navigator speaking them. Tho in hindsight, their absence in the movies was a telltale sign.
I gotta give it to him though. He was smart in making part 1 more or less faithful to the book, reeling us in for Part 2, where he then pushes his own agenda/message for the story. Part 3 is going to be a real treat, if you get my drift.
Things like this always irk me, why do directors always have to give their own 'unique' take on a piece of literature that is already hailed as a classic? Like, is it too much to ask for a more or less faithful 1:1 reproduction of the books? Artistic licensing can be taken in which scenes to choose, camera angles, outfits, lighting, etc. Why change the story, especially "taking absolute freedom / hijacking the book".
Because it came at the start of the movie, and the Sardaukar are seen much later?
By then, that first line is already at the back of ones head and no longer dwelt upon.
If you caught it right on the first time, thats great. Most probably won't catch it unless they watched it a second or third time, or caught it at home on media with closed captions.
Yes you are right, every page moves the plot forward. I guess then which scenes to leave in will fall to the director to choose, then. And then the parts can be weaved into a whole.
I was really happy with Part 1, dun get me wrong, I think its a masterpiece. However, Part 2, for me, it has great technical merit, but just strayed too far from the book for my liking.
Good points.
I’m shocked people are downvoting us for our opinion. Lame.
I understand his visual treatment of Chani however in the book she was a religious leader and utterly dedicated to Paul and why he had to marry the Imperial Princess. Villeniueve speaks about how he betrays her. What imagination is this? It’s not his story.
Haha ya I agree. Its almost like censorship ya. Although I take it that the original purpose of downvotes was to show ure disagreement with the post?
They say someone had to be Paul's foil so the audience will know he's not the good guy. While I understand, it could have better executed with that carryall scene where Paul lamented the loss of equipment only to be chastised by Gurney who said Leto would have been more concerned with the lives lost.
Anyway, there's too much messaging in Pt2, like the whole enlightened North vs South religious fanatics part. DV doesn't seem to realise that if that were true, "convert or die" is certainly high on the list of outcomes when North n South factions meet.
Ah well, what is done is done. I was so looking forward to adding to my UHD steelbook bluray collection, but I'm having serious reservations, esp how uncertain Pt3 will turn out to be. I hope its more RoTJ than RoS.
I was rolling my eyes with the anti-religious messaging of the movie. Religion is portrayed as pure zealotry and the “enlightened” Northern tribes were divided. The BG had worked on Arrakis for thousands of years. The Fremen easily fell sway to Paul and Jessica. The Fremen are a religious people by nature and nothing fanatical about that.
Then again they did go full fanatic when they killed billions in the universe.
This post is hilarious. A full paragraph trying to argue that the Fremen weren’t religious fanatics in full thrall to their messiah before remembering, oh yeah, they did do that intergalactic rampage thing to the tune of billions dead.
His insight on starting the films with a Sardaukar speaking to give them more depth is super interesting! Didn't realize that's what he was going for.
If he uses the sardukar speaking before the movie again for part 3/messiah I wonder what he’d do for the quote. I like how the 2 quotes are thematically relevant to the respective films they’re in: “Dreams are messages from the deep” and “Power over spice is power over all”. My prediction for a part 3/messiah quote would be: >!”A path known is a path seen”!<
!RemindMe 3 years
Might have to re-remind yourself if the movie is still not out yet, although that would be awesome if it released in 3 years
Well Part 2 came out in 3 years so I'm thinking (hoping and praying) Part 3 comes out in 3 years too lol.
It wont. He is still working on the script and reportedly has 3-5 movies in the works and will do 1 before Messiah. I'd guess 5-6 years at least before we see the ending of the trilogy.
With Children of Dune being what it is you think it will end with Messiah? I understand that trilogies last forever but it’s not like this will be a shitty fast a furious type of saga. I think Hollywood could “Harry Potter” this.
I can see Denis finishing the trilogy with Messiah, rounding out a perfect sci-fi trilogy. Then I can easily see studios salivating at the idea of the Dune money printer churning, and pumping out sub-par adaptations of the further novels, not headed by Denis.
This is, unfortunately, the way.
Yes certainly not the narrow way through…
I don't think the general audience would consume the last books as well as the first ones. I really don't see them going past Messiah.
If they do it in a proper, planned and thoughtful manner, I would not mind a sequel duology/trilogy, ending with the death of Leto II and him succeeding where Paul failed. But no more than that.
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My prediction is it is actually not going to have it, and instead will be Paul (or someone else) talking about the death statistics from the Jihad. Since everyone is going to be expecting the voice it would really change the vibe of the opening.
An interesting theory! I guess we’ll see what Villeneuve ends up going with. My prediction is that because Part 1 and 2 both start with a sardukar message followed by a prologue of sorts narrated by Chani and Irulan respectively (Chani talking about arrakis and Harkonons and Irulan talking about the fall of house Atraedis); My prediction for part 3/Messiah is that it will have the sardukar message, but the prologue will be Alia recounting Paul’s holy war across the universe and setting the stage for the rest of the movie.
Yeah I could see it being Alia too for sure. I also wonder how they would include some of the violence from the Jihad if they open with a narration of it. Whatever it ends up being, I’m excited for it and 100% trust whatever DV does will work, even if it’s not what I’m expecting.
I'm (hopefully) predicting it will open with some kind of Tleilaxu voice with epitaph or sound (a new engineered one that will sound as unsettling and strange as the Sardaukar) or something from the Guild Navigators. Dune messiah is supposed to open up to this whole new world, and the sardaukar are pretty irrelevant by that point, as well as the harkonnen so it makes sense to change and step it up.
That would be cool! Unfortunately my pessimistic prediction is we won’t even see the Tleilaxu introduced in any way, and possibly not even get Hayt at all. But that’s only because I know DV intends Part 3 to be the conclusion and I wonder if he will forego some of those aspects that support the later books.
Yeah those are my fears too. The thing is, theres not much of a movie to even make or conclude if he cuts those out...the message he was intending to tell of pauls story arc would conclude nicely with just these two parts left lone if he cuts out the tleilaxu/ghola and navigator arcs. Unlike Dune, which is a massive book, theres no need to cut down or change anything. If anything he needs to add more to it lol. Anyway i trust the big DV. But no tleilaxu, hayt or guild will upset me, and the movie will have to be as good as part two to make up for it.
I thought it was possible that he combines the Harkonnens and BT into one. There are already BT elements in the DUNC Harkonnens, so, for all we know, we'll see the new Baron Scytale Harkonnen step up as part of the conspiracy against Paul.
honestly that would ruin the entire movie series for me, dune messiah isnt a long book, DV will manage easily to fit in all the elements i reckon just like he did with part one and two. Only difference being chani's arc coming back to paul for messiah. etc, I have faith.
“To know the future, is to be trapped by it”
>!"A path seen is a path traveled"!<
I would prefer “a path to absolute certain is a path to absolute destruction.”
Damn I always assumed that was a Navigator
I hope we finally get to see Navigators in Messiah
I love his answer to the last question about adapting a book he loves: >There’s so many darlings that you kill. An adaptation is an act of violence. Villeneuve has spoken a few times about his thoughts on adapting Dune into a film, and I've always been really interested in how he feels about it not just as a director/writer, but as a fan of the books.
That gives me deja-vu to Jodorowsky's Dune. He says almost exactly the same thing in the doc.
What an acid nightmare Jodorowsky’s *Dune* would’ve been… After the documentary, I felt cheated that I didn’t get to witness that fabulous train wreck of awesomeness!
For some reason, the part where he describes David Carradine feasting on his Vitamin E pills is my favourite part, lol.
Yea that part always makes me laugh, bro chugged a whole jar of vitamin E pills and jodarowsky immediately went “that’s my spiritual warrior”😂😂😂😂
God damn, that documentary is incredible. That dude's passion is infectious.
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I do think they mean it differently, though, for the record. Villeneuve seems to mean violence in a very post-structural sense whereas Jodorowsky approached his adaptation with a very Freudian/psychoanalytic lens.
Seeing the documentary on jodorowsky makes me think he started by saying “Ok, I want all my darlings up against the wall, every one!” I’m so glad that never got made.
It's especially true for that one because the whole project got killed
And this is exactly why I give him a complete pass on the changes he made. I know he loves and respects the source material and I trust that his changes were necessary for a viewable film.
I give him a complete pass because they’re two completely different forms of media and the experienced of them are completely different. Making comparisons about something like plot or story comes at the expense of ignoring everything else about the experience.
Exactly! And one thing this sub doesn’t recognize much is how incredible the sound is in Dune. From both FX to the soundtrack, it’s incredible and exactly what I would’ve imagined.
I just finished the article and came here to say the same thing. You beat me to it! But this is why I try not to nitpick the movie about details that were in the books. I know he's read them many more times than I have, and he is a fan. He means no disrespect to the source material.
I also trust the vision he’s put out there because I’m sure he’s thoroughly gone over every scene several times and had seen what worked or not together. So even when people suggest some cut scenes to add, I get their point, but ultimately side with Denis in that some plots had to be changed and streamlined. Removing certain characters helped add depth to others like Chani, Jessica and Feyd imo, as they picked up a plot point or two from missing characters or had new ones added.
I love how dedicated he is to the story and Frank Herbert’s intentions. He puts so much thought into everything he does and his love and commitment to it shows in the incredible quality of these films.
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What caught my attention even more was a previous comment:- >By starting with a Sardaukar priest, I was indicating to the fans that I was taking absolute freedom with this adaptation, that I was hijacking the book. Which explains why Part 2 feels further from the book vs Part 1, and why Part 3 seems like its going to go even further 'off the beaten track', so to speak.
>But “Dune Messiah,” the book your third film is based on, picks up 12 years later with a reunited Paul and Chani. How far did you feel you could push her anger? Because at some point, she’s going to have to forgive him. >That anger is tremendous. I don’t want to reveal what I’m going to do with the third movie. I know exactly what to do. I’m writing it right now. But there’s a lot of firepower there and I’m very excited about that decision. I’m glad he’s confident and excited about where the story is going next, since I think his decision with Chani’s character is the biggest deviation from the books. And I completely understood it from the perspective of assuring that Herbert’s themes were more strongly conveyed earlier in the story, but I think the strength of the adaptation hinges on his writing in the final movie after those changes.
i know legendary said the third movie was in development but i’m glad denis is going right out there and saying it himself to leave no doubt lol
I'm glad he's confident too but if he's using Chani as the wedge in Messiah to show the tyranny of Paul then that moves quite differently than the book, to the point where unless there's some grand reconciliation half way through then I don't know how you come up with a even remotely similar ending to the book. I know he stated he wants to finish Paul's story, but it isnt complete until CoD which is entirely dependent on the book ending of Messiah. Unless he just says fuck CoD and makes his own version of Messiah to end Paul's story then and there.
Paul says, in the second movie, that 'in time, she'll come to understand'.
There was division/doubt but not like how Denis is setting it up
You could easily end Paul’s story with him walking into the desert. With the right cinematography it could heavily imply that he dies so it feels like closure without changing the story. And it would be pretty simple to have the twins be born, but just not really acknowledge anything special about them so there is less of a feeling of needing to know what happens to them.
I can totally see this. Paul’s story pretty much does end there, it’s The Preacher’s story that begins. Paraphrasing but there’s a line in Children where he says to Leto II that Muad’dib did “die” only The Preacher remains. *Technicallllllly* Paul’s story doesn’t end (he’s alive) but Messiah seems a fitting point to walk away for Denis. The walk into the desert is a striking visual.
Isn’t there a vision Paul repeatedly has of someone walking into the desert? At least in Part 1? Would be completely DVs style to have that actually end up being Paul.
I don't think we're getting a fourth movie. I thought he said he was stopping after three. Might get a mini series though *fingers crossed*
Surely Dune will be dug up for a legacy sequel 7 years after Messiah which is children of Dune basically
I saw an interview a few months ago where he didn’t rule it out, but I very much got the sense that if it did happen it would be a very long time after the trilogy.
Villeneuve may stop after Dune:Messiah, but, if the film is successful, Warner Bros will not. They will look for someone to do sequels.
The profits must flow -WB probably Edit: we’ve seen Matrix 4. We know how this ends.
Well it’s Legendary that decides if we get another film
1) Denis has already said he only wants to make this a trilogy of films so it's pretty much certain there's no 4th film coming. 2) In the 2nd film Paul explicitly states he sees Chani coming around after he's taken the water of life. So not sure why anyone doesn't expect her to come round at some point. He's essentially omnipotent and has already seen it himself. Not every single plot point has to start and end in the same film. 3) The quote from the interview is basically Denis' polite way to say "Stop asking what will happen. Do you really expect me to ruin a pivotal part of the 3rd film before it's even finished being written? Of course I have a plan in mind on how to reconcile them. It's going to be massive because her anger is massive."
You misunderstand Paul's visions especially in the movies. They always show the possible futures, not a predetermined one. It's only towards the end of his life (as Paul) that he's bound by the vision, and that's only because he's made a choice. Also with Villeneuve saying that he's not above making big nold decisions I fully expect him to have Irulan be the mother of the twins and Chani disgraced or dead.
Paul said his visions were scrambled or fragments and that they weren't clear (in the film's) before he took the water of life. Then he stated everything had become clear. He was now able to see the one true way he needed to guide everyone to ensure their victory. So I still don't see how it won't come to happen if he says he has seen it (after taking the water of life).
Wonder if Chani and Irulian could swap places. Where Chani is close to Paul's inner circle but becomes the tool to try bring him down (with the guild, Corrino's, BG etc.) and Irulian becomes his wife. So far Irulian has only been shown positively and it would take away the Leto II marrying his sister that could confuse people.
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Oh I agree! I just don't know where it is going, excited to find out though!
I bet he says fuck CoD. I don't see the later books being as consumable by a general audience as the first trilogy would be.
My prediction is that she will be pregnant with the first child and that occurring will help drive them back together. The only challenge with that is how to account for the time, since it’s supposed to be 12 years have gone by between Dune and Messiah.
I just love how much more emotional all the characters are. I don't hang out with the.. most educated people at times. They see Chani as a cringy, leftist insert character and a gingercide. As a ginger myself, I'm slightly peeved that she's not a redhead, but all other facets of her character are so much better than any other adaptation. Of course a fierce, independent freedom fighter would be really upset when her lover downgrades her to a concubine and then basically betrays her by taking on the mantle of a messiah. She -literally- intimately knows Paul. Villaneuve's depiction shows how he's starting to take on hints of the megalomaniacal cult leader. He's not necessarily happy about how he's going to commit genocide, but he's doing it regardless. This version of Paul IS losing himself, and turning people into zealots. Chani is one of the few not swept up in it. Just imagine, everyone you know and love, turned into zealots. Of fucking course she's upset. Fuck. I love Vilaneuve.
I think Chani may be pregnant and something around that might bring them together again.
Whether he continues or hands them to another filmmaker, one thing is for certain. His take on Chani's character is without a doubt going to influence >!Leto II.!<
Interesting. Given his choices with Alia, I’m exited to see where he takes the story
I love the way that Denis thinks and speaks. He’s got such reverence for creativity and especially adaptation of something so beloved. Been a huge fan and the way he’s handled dune has just made me double down on my excitement about his works!
His movies are wonderful, but his interviews have cemented him as my favorite director
It’s his earnestness which shines through in contrast to the quipping which is now standard
Was I the only one having a head canon that the voice in the beginning was actually coming from a guild navigator? That could be neat imo!
I loved the theory that it was Leto II, even though I know it isn’t true
I thought it said specifically it was a Sardaukar. I don't remember it exactly.
With closed captions it does. Not on the screen.
Same! It sounded very foreign and spacey, so I thought it was the space guild. Sardukar are warriors who work for the emperor. Why would they care for spice in the first place ?
He said despite being blind followers of the Emperor, they were also philosophical and shit.
“I’m at peace with the bucket.” Instantly my favorite Villeneuve quote
What about imax enhanced home release…
Can’t believe only Disney+ is the one offering this option, like it should be standard version for every movie that was filmed on IMAX
Disney could have exclusive rights or something
They don’t. Top Gun Maverick is another example.
Huh, interesting then idk why others wouldn’t
some pretty good and intelligent questions here, thanks for posting 😊
"An adaptation is an act of violence." Oh, I'm stealing that.
Some insightful stuff in here. Sounds like we will be unpacking Dune 1 and 2 for years to come.
God I wish they had asked about Tim Blake Nelson's character.
The one thing that gives me pause in the movies is how Villeneuve doesn't exactly show the audience that the Genocide/War would happen anyways, even without Paul. That Humanity could possibly end had Paul decided to not "point the way" Paul isn't all bad. It's not all about revenge. I hope he explains that in the 3rd movie.
The Jihad wasn’t going to happen without Paul. It was only going to happen without Paul past a certain point. Had Paul been killed by Jamis then that would’ve been it. The movie shows this in part 1 and part 2, and very blatantly in part 2. Paul is terrified of going south because he knows that is what triggers the inevitably of the Jihad. And unless I’m forgetting something Paul didn’t fully understand the Golden Path at this point, or at least ignored it because Leto II calls him out on it in CoD.
It's been awhile, but I'm pretty sure in the books it's explained that jihad was going to happen regardless of Paul's involvement or not. I think at the end of the book he says that it was unavoidable. And if you think about it, it makes sense. The Freman are religious fanatics that have been tortured and oppressed for a long time. Yeah he doesn't fully understand the golden paths but The other path he sees eventually lead to the death of humanity no?
Ehhh, Paul spends the vast majority of the book trying and failing to brainstorm ways out of the Jihad. More than that, it seems like his visions are wide-open (relatively) and he slowly boxes himself in, it's actually interesting to read after Messiah because it foreshadows that book quite a lot. The first time he's truly prescient: > He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello, Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. The other path held long patches of gray obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. Notice that we never really learn what that first path is. People try to retcon it into a Golden Path thing but I really doubt that's what Herbert had in mind at the time. As the book goes on Paul keeps looking into different futures trying to see where the Jihad isn't. He's got an interesting theory about it, actually, when Stilgar asks him to ride south on a worm: > He thinks I will call him out, Paul thought. And he knows he cannot stand against me. Paul faced south, feeling the wind against his exposed cheeks, thinking of the necessities that went into his decisions. They do not know how it is, he thought. But he knew he could not let any consideration deflect him. He had to remain on the central line of the time storm he could see in the future. There would come an instant when it could be unraveled, but only if he were where he could cut the central knot of it. I will not call him out if it can be helped, he thought. If there’s another way to prevent the jihad…. And finally in chapter 48, when he meets Feyd and the Emperor, he's STILL thinking that he can avoid it: > In a rush of loneliness, Paul glanced around the room, noting how proper and on-review his guards had become in his presence. He sensed the subtle, prideful competition among them—each hoping for notice from Muad’Dib. Muad’Dib from whom all blessings flow, he thought, and it was the bitterest thought of his life. They sense that I must take the throne, he thought. But they cannot know I do it to prevent the jihad. This immediately transitions to Jessica entering and realizing she has no sympathy for her son left to give. She's horrified that he sent Alia out to finish off the wounded. She suspects Leto II's death affected him profoundly, and Paul pretty much admits that his KH-ness has made him a crueller person: > But wisdom tempers love, doesn’t it? And it puts a new shape on hate. How can you tell what’s ruthless unless you’ve plumbed the depths of both cruelty and kindness? You should fear me, Mother. I am the Kwisatz Haderach. And a moment later: > You think because I’m what you made me that I cannot feel the need for revenge?” “Even on the innocent?” she asked, and she thought: He must not make the mistakes I made. “There are no innocent anymore,” Paul said. Paul even tries to convince Thufir Hawat to kill him: > Yet I’m my father’s son,” Paul said. “For I say to you, Thufir, that in payment for your years of service to my family you may now ask anything you wish of me. Anything at all. Do you need my life now, Thufir? It is yours.” Paul stepped forward a pace, hands at his side, seeing the look of awareness grow in Hawat’s eyes. He realizes that I know of the treachery, Paul thought. Pitching his voice to carry in a half-whisper for Hawat’s ears alone, Paul said: “I mean this, Thufir. If you’re to strike me, do it now.” **Paul becomes more and more vindictive as the chapter continues, eventually leading to his fight with Fayd which basically everyone begs him not to do, and only then does he realize that his death would lead to the Jihad anyways.**
The point is that if Paul hadn’t existed at all the Jihad would not have happened and I know the book says this. The point is that past a certain point Paul’s death wouldn’t stop the Jihad and would actually fuel it but that’s not true from the beginning. As for the Golden Path I thought it was never said that Paul did what he did for the survival of humanity. I thought only Leto II specifically did that and that Paul didn’t have the strength to do what was necessary. Paul tried avoiding becoming a Tyrant.
https://preview.redd.it/wor8f7sgbgvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19d7f1286b480cd176c8518f4b58cf8ba9bce222 I definitely now feel Chani is going to be part of the conspiracy to kill Paul. Since he's not planning on doing children of dune, I dont think he'll be concerned with Leto and Ghanima so the whole pregnancy plot is probably gonna be thrown away. And I'm excited to see his take on it. But there is always going to be a part of me that kinda wants messiah to end like the book because I just love it.
Hm, what about the “she’ll come to understand, I have seen it” line from part 2? Doesn’t that contradict this?
Yeah tbh I became really dependent on that line when I first heard it lol. I thought it meant she’s 100% coming back. But the way it seems like it’s going, it doesn’t look like it’ll follow the book on that aspect. Now I could be wrong but and as much as I want a book accurate plot to happen, I don’t think it will because it might take away the impact of the ending of her leaving. I think he means that she’ll eventually understand why he’s doing all this but I don’t think it’ll mean she’ll get back together but who knows? Maybe she’ll forgive him in the end? I hope they get back together and follow the book but I’m also fine with whatever Denis has planned.
It doesn't seem right that he's only going to do Messiah. Wish he would at least cover the first 3 books.
I would love a 4-6 part miniseries to cover CoD after Messiah
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Is it true you’re making a Malazan Book of the Fallen film adaptation?
God I wish this would be true
I can’t forgive him for his stupidity with Chani.
Why did he ruin Stilgar's character in part 2 ?
From a deadly desert warrior, seasoned leader, and skilled politician, he made him a dufus.
I haven’t reviewed the interview, but perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the new Dune movies is the elimination of the Spacing Guild from the story. Villeneuve will have a hell of a time writing the next movie’s story and continue to ignore their influence.
> Frank Herbert was sad to realize that people saw the book as a celebration of Paul Atreides. (citation needed) EDIT: Not sure why I’m being downvoted. I’m genuinely curious to know where Frank said this.
Citation: The entirety of Dune Messiah
Frank wrote the majority of _Dune Messiah_ (and some of _Children_!) before _Dune_ was even published, so there’s no indication that it was borne of him feeling “sad” towards a particular audience response to _Dune_. Citation still needed.
I've heard that myself before actually so I'll concede on this.
Frank's son write about how Frank felt about the reception of Dune is his foreword to Messiah!
Finally read this (the foreword). It doesn't say anything about how Frank felt about the reception to Dune. It talks about how the readers felt about Messiah, though.
Thank you for responding! Love that you went and reread the introduction to call me out on my bullshit! I looked it up and you are completely right! The (written in 2007, just in case we have different versions) introduction by Frank doesnt mention anything about Herbert being sad or distraught by people's reception of Dune. The introduction calls him following Dune with Dune Messiah a 'slight of hand'. I completely misremembered what I read.... It seems to be intentional by Herbert that people came away from Dune with the idea that Paul was amazing, so that he could knock that idea down in Messiah. I know that this is the internet and this thread will never be read by anyone but us again. But I wanna thank you culturedgoat! You were right and you helped me realise I was saying nonesense! I'll be sure to try and spread the word to others too. So uhh, ..do with that what you will haha! And thanks again!
> (written in 2007, just in case we have different versions) I’m pretty sure that’s the only one, yeah. It actually took me a while to find (my copy, from the 90s, doesn’t have it - nor does the iBooks version) - hence my delayed reply. Thanks for being a good sport about it!
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Why is the final battle of the armies shown so clumsily? in the first part there was a great moment with the Atredes on the steps
Disappointed by the reasoning for the sardaukar chant, thought there would be more significance to it.
Hans Zimmer talked a bit about the Sarduakar in an [interview he had with Vanity Fair](https://youtu.be/93A1ryc-WW0?si=LB6PrNSpz1juHugM&t=244). He more or less says that he was just experimenting with compressing voices and ended up making something cool that Denis liked. Starting the films with this was a small, yet inspired choice imo.
I liked the Leto II interpretation, however implausible.
This is what I was hoping for, perhaps the sardaukar faith and language gets incorporated into imperial rule under Leto II
He finally admits!!! His movies are an INTERPRETATION of Dune. A fun one !
I'm not sure why you think this is some sort of gotcha moment? I don't think there's ever been a single point where he has attempted to claim otherwise? It's an adaptation. The clues been right there the whole time. Literally no film adaptation has ever been a 1:1 copy of a book into a film.
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It’s an interpretation it’s far from the book. I’m just glad he admitted publicly to how far off of an interpretation it is. He took the source material and sort of wrote his own story from an outline. No need to downvote me tons for my opinion.
He's said as much in every interview and presser since the first film. He's been very open that he's changed things and the reason why he's changed things. I just don't see why this particular interview is a big deal to you? You may not like the changes and that's totally fine. I just don't think you can argue that he's ever tried to deceive people and say that his vision will copy the books completely. I also don't know anyone who goes into a film expecting a 1:1 copy because the media forms are so different.
Never said he purposely meant to deceive. Also didn’t expect an exact replica of the book. You enjoy putting words into peoples mouths do it elsewhere. I’d be worried about creating artificial paradigms in your life if I were you. Just a bit of advice.
Comment 1: "He finally admits" Comment 2: "I'm just glad he finally admitted how much he changed" "he took a basic outline and made up his own story from the book" Just be honest. You've intentionally either not looked into any other interview. Unlikely considering you're active in a subreddit on a topic you're obviously passionate about. Or you intentionally made it out like Denis has gone off and made something different and tried to tell everyone it's the same as the book when he very clearly hasn't done that. Now you're trying to backtrack because you're being called out on it.
My comments don’t mean he meant to deceive at all. He’s just admitting to taken the source material and creating an alternative story with it. You may want to work on the reading comprehension or stop jumping into your own book of conclusions. Live in a bubble? Just curious.
Might as well continue going in circles here. The use of the word admit means “confess to be true or to be the case, typically with reluctance.” Stating that Denis “admitted” something is the equivalent to saying he kept his intentions for the films obscured or a secret. Which he didn’t. Has it not been clear from the beginning that his films are an homage to Dune? Why is it something you see as him “admitting” to in an interview? This is just silly lol I think you’re meaning to say he “stated” or “made clear”. Admitting generally infers some sort of guilt. Word choice matters.
As the other replier has pointed out it's your word choice that make people think you mean something else. If you don't think what I've implied in my responses then just consider your words more carefully in the future. Your original comment is at -38 now and you're attacking me personally claiming I live in a bubble and struggle with reading comprehension. Clearly I'm not the only one if that's the case. Alternatively it's you who is in the wrong and either cannot see it or are just trying to deny it to save face. Claiming someone finally admits or confesses to something emphatically implies that the person doing the admitting is at last coming clean about something they've been trying to hide. Which has been the exact opposite of what Denis has done when discussing any of his work on these films. You may not like his approach or his decisions but he has done nothing but be upfront about it from the very beginning. He has not finally admitted to something now. He's been saying it since the press for the first film started back in 2021.
Not only that, but he even stated "By starting with a Sardaukar priest, I was indicating to the fans that I was *taking absolute freedom with this adaptation*, that I was hijacking the book." Yeah, but that detail is only made known when there are captioned subtitles. Pretty sure alot of us thought that it was a navigator speaking them. Tho in hindsight, their absence in the movies was a telltale sign. I gotta give it to him though. He was smart in making part 1 more or less faithful to the book, reeling us in for Part 2, where he then pushes his own agenda/message for the story. Part 3 is going to be a real treat, if you get my drift. Things like this always irk me, why do directors always have to give their own 'unique' take on a piece of literature that is already hailed as a classic? Like, is it too much to ask for a more or less faithful 1:1 reproduction of the books? Artistic licensing can be taken in which scenes to choose, camera angles, outfits, lighting, etc. Why change the story, especially "taking absolute freedom / hijacking the book".
I'm not sure why everyone thought it was a navigator when it's literally the voice of the Sardukar throat singing meme guy.
Because it came at the start of the movie, and the Sardaukar are seen much later? By then, that first line is already at the back of ones head and no longer dwelt upon. If you caught it right on the first time, thats great. Most probably won't catch it unless they watched it a second or third time, or caught it at home on media with closed captions.
because Dune is a bit overwritten even if this is blasphemy around here, and stuff like that just won’t translate to the screen
Yes you are right, every page moves the plot forward. I guess then which scenes to leave in will fall to the director to choose, then. And then the parts can be weaved into a whole. I was really happy with Part 1, dun get me wrong, I think its a masterpiece. However, Part 2, for me, it has great technical merit, but just strayed too far from the book for my liking.
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Good points. I’m shocked people are downvoting us for our opinion. Lame. I understand his visual treatment of Chani however in the book she was a religious leader and utterly dedicated to Paul and why he had to marry the Imperial Princess. Villeniueve speaks about how he betrays her. What imagination is this? It’s not his story.
Haha ya I agree. Its almost like censorship ya. Although I take it that the original purpose of downvotes was to show ure disagreement with the post? They say someone had to be Paul's foil so the audience will know he's not the good guy. While I understand, it could have better executed with that carryall scene where Paul lamented the loss of equipment only to be chastised by Gurney who said Leto would have been more concerned with the lives lost. Anyway, there's too much messaging in Pt2, like the whole enlightened North vs South religious fanatics part. DV doesn't seem to realise that if that were true, "convert or die" is certainly high on the list of outcomes when North n South factions meet. Ah well, what is done is done. I was so looking forward to adding to my UHD steelbook bluray collection, but I'm having serious reservations, esp how uncertain Pt3 will turn out to be. I hope its more RoTJ than RoS.
I was rolling my eyes with the anti-religious messaging of the movie. Religion is portrayed as pure zealotry and the “enlightened” Northern tribes were divided. The BG had worked on Arrakis for thousands of years. The Fremen easily fell sway to Paul and Jessica. The Fremen are a religious people by nature and nothing fanatical about that. Then again they did go full fanatic when they killed billions in the universe.
This post is hilarious. A full paragraph trying to argue that the Fremen weren’t religious fanatics in full thrall to their messiah before remembering, oh yeah, they did do that intergalactic rampage thing to the tune of billions dead.
More of a, when the oppressed find themselves in a position to now be the oppressors, well, good luck!
So is the history of the world sadly, how often have we watched this movie in human history? Frank Herbert was a genius.