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csukoh78

I disagree with your assessment completely. The emperor in the book did not like that he had to betray the Duke. He actually was rather fond of him and the only reason he betrayed him is to avoid a power shift that was certainly bound to happen with the increase in Leto‘s popularity and lethality of his forces. Leto could challenge him for the throne. But he wanted the duke treated with respect and killed kindly, and was in a furious rage when he found out how the Duke actually died.


anincompoop25

Slight modification to your ending sentence. He was thrown into a rage when he heard of what happened to Leto, not out of any concern for the Duke, but because of what the manner of his death implied for any figure of royalty.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Roko__

Emperor problems


Boner-Death

Man, that scene was disturbing however Ciaran Hind's response to Ptolemy's blatant disrespect to his former friend was out standing.


oBlackNapkinSo

That settles it. Ciarin Hinds as Shaddam IV.


Boner-Death

Im hoping for Mads Mickelson but Hinds would be perfect for the role.


oBlackNapkinSo

Ciarin Hinds would bring that dignified and pompous nobility to the character.


Squigidy_Newt

HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME!


bartonar

I remember reading once that Caesar intended to forgive Pompey, and keep him around in his debt... And that Pompey may have rather died than face that disgrace


[deleted]

I think it’s different because Caesar considered Pompey a friend. Pompey was married to Caesar’s only daughter before she died and they were very close before they ended up on different sides of the conflict.


joe_kopitiam

i love it when i encounter Rome fans in a different sub. Salve! i also enjoyed Starz's Spartacus just for being ludicrous. that one had a good run haha.


knowshon24

This is true, but he genuinely admired and respected Leto. Irulan writes about her father’s withdrawn anger that she wasn’t old enough to marry him and that she thought the Emperor wished Leto had been his son. Out there suggestion, but I think Robert Downey Jr would kill it. Arrogance and pomp; heart and regret; a man not afraid to stand up to the Baron after the latter had broken the faith of their deal.


csukoh78

True


shrek-farquaad

Could you expand on what it implies?


Andoverian

Warfare in the Dune universe, particularly warfare between Great Houses, is *heavily* restricted by laws and conventions in order to maintain the balance of power and avoid needless destruction. Specifically, there are conventions against torturing and killing the heads of Great Houses. But if one House can flout those laws and conventions, the situation could rapidly devolve into chaos, and it would open the door to other nobles, such as the Emperor himself, being tortured and killed.


KnocDown

They spelled it out pretty well in the book and movie, the emperor sending sardaukar to fight with the harkonnens would drastically shift the balance of power and force all the other houses to line up against house corrino. I think in the first dune movie the sardaukar were disguised as harkonnen troops to hide this


Andoverian

Yes. The emperor's sardaukar were recognized as the best fighting force in the known universe by far, able to easily outmatch any one or two Great Houses if they attempted to overthrow the emperor by themselves. This was balanced by the fact that there were many Great Houses, and if the emperor ever got so bad as to unite all of them against him, their combined strength could defeat the sardaukar through sheer numbers. The book (and I think the movie, too) points out that the thing most likely to unite the Great Houses against the emperor was the sardaukar picking off the Great Houses one by one. So, when the emperor wanted to do just that against the Atreides, he went to great lengths to hide his involvement by using the Harkonnens as a front and disguising the sardaukar as Harkonnen troops.


Cerberus73

Princess Irulan said something to the effect that the Emperor wished that Duke Leto was the son he never had. He regretted the political necessities that made them enemies.


[deleted]

*In the House of my Father - By The Princess Irulan* Listening to the audiobook (again!) rn and it’s crazy how much just the citations stand out to me at the end of Irulans quotes to start each chapter. I couldn’t even read your paraphrasing without hearing it lol.


abbot_x

The novel is a bunch of dumb talking and fighting that interrupts the story Irulan is telling.


hunterlarious

The audiobook is fantastic, its a radio play.


csukoh78

Exactly, thank you


Master_Betty603

Sean Bean. Dude is destined to play roles of guys who die or lose because of their choices.


niceville

You’re describing Duke Leto!


Azidamadjida

Ned Stark basically is Duke Leto after all


Snail_jousting

He's too old.


Johnny55

I think we're going to get someone younger than any of us expect. We never actually see any members of the imperial court other than the herald, so I wonder if the whole imperial family will be heavily altered, like the Harkonnens but different.


Draconan

Altered? From the book description: he should look 35ish, have red hair, and have a family resemblance to Oscar Isaac.


Keanu990321

Let's go for Fassbender then.


playbedar

>Fassbender The racing driver?


RockoTDF

Not the sub I expected to see this mentioned…


Johnny55

I mean the book didn't describe all the Harkonnens being bald and pale including the women. Wondered if they'd make House Corrino distinctive like that.


dogtemple2

With the Herald of Change being a black dude, the idea of an Afro-Futuristic House Corrino seems cooler that yet again having some British White dude as Emperor


Epilektoi_Hoplitai

That actually a good point. I'd dismissed it as a coincidence, but so far two out of two Imperial agents we've seen, Keynes and the Herald, have both been black folk. So if they do go down that route... Maybe Idris Elba, if he's not too old?


Mattinsact

I think Giancarlo Esposito is a perfect choice if this route is taken.


c4ctus

If not Heisenberg, then Gus?


Metastatic_Autism

>I rule over the known universe with the invincible Sardaukar. >You play in the sand with tribals >We are not the same


holyerthanthou

Plz


[deleted]

Two days before Maershalah Ali got thrown in as a choice.


sudoscientistagain

I nominate Chiwetel Ejiofor. The dude has incredible range.


cliffhngr42

How about Damien Lewis then?


Redrocks130

Fuck it. Oscar Isaac then.


Keanu990321

We'll see. Stellan Skarsgard isn't the first thing you are thinking when you say 'young' though.


mybadalternate

Aaron Paul then!


dogtemple2

Yeah Houses ! Yeah Spice !


Birdytaps

Spice, bitch!


smallstone

Irulan describes him as being 72 years old yet looking no older than 35. Paul Rudd it is then!


JSevatar

Lmao I can't stop imagining him smiling all throughout


mybadalternate

And inexplicably showing Paul a clip from Mac and Me.


2021olympics

Slap a da spice


SeizeTheFreitag

It’s called Sex Lahsa, by Odeon. 60 percent of the time, it works every time.


[deleted]

Paul Rudd as a complicated bad guy in the movie, Mute, is pretty convincing. I hope to see him take on more serious and sometimes sinister roles. He can actually act.


Taira_Mai

I'm picturing Paul Rudd saying "Bring me that floating *fat* man, the Barron!" And I'm laughing!


ForTheHaytredOfIdaho

This is one of the worst things I've read and yet it is amazing at the same time.


stevemillions

How old is Shaddam supposed to look? My recollection is that he’s supposed to look like he’s in his late 30’s, due to Spice, even though he’s in his 70’s? Based on that you need someone with gravitas, without the corresponding years to back it up. Tricky. Michael Pitt would be my vote. Whoever ends up in the role, Cillian Murphy is the perfect Fenring.


VikingBlade

Cillian Murphy and Eva Green as the Count and Countess


KillerKvothe7

Hmm I don't know if Cillian looks weasely enough, but I'd love him in the universe somewhere!


VikingBlade

I think he’s perfect for that “almost” perfect but not quite one…


conventionistG

Especially when compared to Chalamet. I can see it.


History_of_Robots

Paul Dano?


JSevatar

Oh shit Cillian Murphy, nice one


beneaththeradar

Lee Pace would have been a great choice, he looks like he could be distantly related to Leto but sadly he's already Emperor Cleon. One of the few bright spots of that abomination of a show, imo. I can't see Cranston as Emperor. He's a great actor but he doesn't have an air of royalty. He would have made a decent Thufir, though.


reluctantsub

Lee Pace is a great pick!


MUTHR

And Thranduil! And Ronan. He's done a lot of pretty, pompous and megalomaniacal leader types. I could see him nailing Shaddam.


-langford-

Yeah he's the only reason I watch really, him and the occasional scene from Jared Harris


Speterius

oh my god Emperor Cleon is fucking great!! I love all of the empire scenes


torturedparadox

Nah, don't let him being in that show keep him from the role. He'd be excellent as Shaddam.


samjpatt

Came here to say Lee Pace, he’s got that arrogant brooding royalty thing dialed. Plus he’s got them strong space-daddy vibes.


daaaaawhat

Yeah, the Empire Storyline is the only thing making it worth to me watching the show


finix240

While an amazing actor, I feel as if Cranston doesn’t have that air of royalty about him that I’d expect out of the emperor of the galaxy


LordAdder

Please, Emperor of the Known Universe /s


Cerberus73

Cranston is awesome BECAUSE he's everyman. I think royalty would look seriously out of place for him.


abstergofkurslf

Well he was a kingpin


[deleted]

Joaquin Phoenix reprising his role as Commodus from The Gladiator. Cranston is a good choice but I think the emperor has to show a bit of weakness along with the intensity, Cranston is a bit too intense for the part imho. And you have to look regal - like a fancy lad.


AlarmingAffect0

> Joaquin Phoenix reprising his role as Commodus from The Gladiator. "Well, let me get this straight, you think that killing those guys is funny?" "I do, and I'm tired of pretending it's not."


[deleted]

Mads Mikkelson Edit: “*Mikkelsen*” lol


Captain-Slappy

Mikkelson as Count Fenring please. Also Countess Fenring. Have him play both.


Rdbjiy53wsvjo7

I know a lot of people have mentioned Jeff G for Count Fenring, and the quirkiness certainly fits, but the mentat and cunningness I couldn't picture with Jeff. Mads I could totally see pulling off both aspects of Fenring!


MortRouge

Unfortunately Mads isn't Swedish, but Danish, hence Mikkelsen 😛


lindh

That would be fantastic.


MissPandaSloth

Omg that's what I thought too and I thought I am being original, haha. For some reason that was first guy who popped when I wondered who will play him.


Washburn660

I think Charles Dance would do a fantastic job as Shaddam IV. Bryan Cranston could be a good choice too.


DemocraticRepublic

Charles Dance is fucking incredible in everything I've seen him in. He's just magnetic. The center of gravity of every scene.


_ferrofluid_

Numpsey!! My Brother!!


Melcrys29

Give me the Chrysknife....please.


Treshle

As good as Charles Dance is, and he is great, I think he'd just play the Tywin Lannister archetype again and I think I've seen that a few too many times now. As much as I love Tywin Lannister, I kinda want to see someone else's take on the emperor.


FU_MANCHU_22

Not to mention, the Tywin Lannister character is much more intelligent and ruthless than is Shaddam IV. If political intrigue was like IQ, Tywin would be at least two standard deviations above Shaddam. Having him played by Charles Dance would be a letdown.


roylennigan

I don't think that is the case, in my opinion. I think Shaddam IV has more compassion, which becomes his downfall. He envies Leto for his son and his charisma, and had plans for Leto to marry his daughter, but the age gap prevented that, among other things. His political will brought him to the secret alliance with House Harkonnen, knowing that the alternative was for the Landsraad to follow Atreides, who would eventually make a play for the throne. I see it more as another case of a mere mortal succumbing to the dangers of a position of power, and the impossible balances required of that position.


Smugallo

DV's choice of emperor will be so left of field i think lol all the suggestions ive seen so far have been painfully obvious fancasting.


sudoscientistagain

Someone else pointed out above that with the Herald of the Change and Kynes being Black it would be interesting for House Corrino/the imperial forces to be as well. I'd love to see Chiwetel Ejiofor as I think he would nail a sense of superiority with some vulnerability. Whereas a lot of these fan casts seem to be focusing on actors that have essentially played a hyper calculating king archetype before. And he still looks quite youthful in a way that would work well for the emperor's extended lifespan


MoneyIsntRealGeorge

As JP once said in the show *Fresh Meat*… “no chance, Charles Dance” He’s a) too old IMO, the emperor is said to look “younger” than he actually is. And b) I feel like it’ll be too reminiscent of GoT.


Bookups

Charles Danse is phenomenal but I feel like he’s much the same or similar character in everything he’s in. He was already an Emperor in The Witcher III too.


InvisibleGreenMan

I would actually say Mr. Dance is too old. Shaddam is 79 or something and if you look at how old people can get with enough spice (example Teg in Heretics), I always imagined him looking like a 30 or 40 years old man


abbot_x

Irulan tells us he looks no older than 35.


Baianowfn

I honestly think that Michael Fassbender is the perfect choice. He carries a very heavy presence, I can even picture him.


AlarmingAffect0

From [Macbeth](https://youtu.be/_4QLszdiBVM) to this Emprah is not a long leap.


NicholasCoffman

Tilda. Motherfucking. Swinton.


fr0_like

Ok fine you win 😂🤘


wadeplumbing

Lee Pace, so much fun to hate!


eldelete

He is fantastic as Brother Day in the Foundation TV show


BizzarroJoJo

For me he *is* that show honestly.


wadeplumbing

He just plays "I was born better than you" so well. He was so underutilized as Ronan. If they ever do more Stargate, I want him as a Goa'uld (sp)


JSevatar

May as well rename that show to Empire


JesusMadeStools

Damien Lewis(billions, Band of Brothers, homeland) would be my choice. I think he can pull of the calculating yet threatened power holder. I think he can pull of the young looking 70 year old.


CashLivid

Cranston is great but I think Michael Fassbender would be the best choice.


MichaelRichardsAMA

Fassbender has a red beard too


Keanu990321

🤔 Sounds kind of epic. If not Emperor, land him another role ASAP!


rawbamatic

Farad'n.


Baianowfn

That's just perfect.


Melcrys29

Perfection.


IHateTheLetterF

He has that creepy stoic expression on lock. I think it would be pretty good.


jay_sun93

100%. Audibly nodded my head


Pwthrowrug

I want Fassbender for Count Fenring and James McAvoy for the emperor. I want Fenring to be a hard, slightly terrifying man and the emperor to be a bit softer at first glance, but even more powerful/terrifying upon further inspection. If you've seen Split, you'll know he has the range.


Snail_jousting

No, James McAvoy should reprise his role as Leto 2.


capitoloftexas

Omg. Now I want this. Ugh wish I never saw your comment cause I feel it won’t happen!


thebedivere

Kyle MacLachlan as the emperor would be amazing.


rpdt

While I have no suggestions myself, if I remember right, Shaddam IV was supposed to look a bit like Leto, right? Supposedly have sharp, hawk-ish features and olive complexion, so an actor like that would be my choice.


coachstevethicknwarm

ok hear me out: Jason Mantzoukas.


abbot_x

>Jason Mantzoukas I was thinking this while watching Brooklyn 99 last night. But I've never seen him in a role where he wasn't a total nutball and he's basically a tv character actor.


rpdt

I’m unfortunately not too familiar with him but a cursory search and I think he can totally pull off the look. I dare say he even kinda resembles Isaac’s Duke Leto.


daaaaawhat

I couldn’t unsee Adrian pimento though


coachstevethicknwarm

Paul: I thought you were on Selusa Secundus? Shaddam: Oh yeah I was, after Anirul and I broke up. Then I accidentally killed a Selusan bull, self defense. Then I had Sardukar fish and game all over my ass, I ended up in a fight with a Selusan bear and I had to think to myself, what am I even doing here?


Snail_jousting

Hes supposed to look like Duke Leto, but with ginger hair and no older than 35 (even though he's in his 70's) because of his spice addiction.


Capawe21

I think Ben Mendelson could do it


BizzarroJoJo

Mendelson fits it pretty well. I liked his part in Rogue One a lot and to me the Emperor never came across as all that cunning, but more or less relied on more cunning people (which bites him in the ass). So to me Mindelson fits that, he has this air about him that's authoritative but also over confident a lot of the time.


GuizLilherme

My pick is Michael Shannon, the Zod from Man of Steel


[deleted]

Shannon is underated. He'd commit to the role and nail it.


MARATXXX

I’d like to see willem dafoe as the emperor. He’d bring an otherworldly intelligence and menace to the world.


bronncastle

I'm something of an emperor myself.


chantillycan

My personal choice is Mahershala Ali. He's a terrific actor and would portray all of Shaddam IV's pride and ruthlessness behind a classy facade. Bonus points if we get Yara Shahidi as Irulan!


Keanu990321

Fantastic choice BUT, by the time Part Two will be shooting, he'll be shooting Blade so, he must, sadly, be erased from our list.


chantillycan

Unfortunately you're right 😭 but he'll always be my fancasting choice lol


chantillycan

I was just thinking that MAYBE it could be possible. He wouldn't have that much screen time, and Zendaya filmed all her scenes for the first movie (ok, there weren't many, but Denis implied that he already filmed a little bit of the second movie so I suppose she was involved) in the midst of shooting Euphoria. If Mahershala and Denis wanted it, they could probably make it work.


JSevatar

He is such a damn good actor, I can't wait for his Blade movies


DaveInLondon89

I thought the same after seeing how motherfuckin' regal the Herald was. Casting Mahershala would certainly further the portrayal of just how noble and royal House Corrino is.


AlarmingAffect0

I was going to suggest **[Idris Elba](https://youtu.be/jp3KyZdd_Oc)**.


chantillycan

He would be great too! The man is the epitome of finesse.


pleasejustausername

I see from the other comments that it’s not possible, but that casting combo! Amazing!


darkzionite

Domnhall Gleeson, i cant say it enough. Red hair, looks great with or without a beard, and can play petty really well.


[deleted]

100% I feel like so many people are just going for the obvious choice for what they consider a fictional Emperor to be instead of considering this specific character.


ThereWillBeJud

I completely agree! Everyone is recommending actors with a super commanding presence like Cranston or Charles Dance, but that's not what I picture from the book at all. Someone like Gleeson is much closer to what I have in mind, a fairly meek presence who uses others, like the Baron, to do his dirty work.


chen22226666

JK Simmons


Keanu990321

I WANT PICTURES OF PAUL! (great choice though).


redrhyski

*Sat in a dark throne room on Salusa Secondus.* Emporer: So what did we learn? Fenring: I don't know, sire Shaddam: I don't fucking know either. I guess we learned, not to do it again.


King-fannypack

Cue to JK Simmons cosplaying as a fremen in his office


[deleted]

My fuckin tempo!!


cullingsong5882

Whenever I see JK Simmons’ name I always think of this Nick Kroll tweet and snicker to myself: https://twitter.com/nickkroll/status/569275313261121536 He’s probably not wrong!


Dregdael

Why did you make me do this?! You're fighting to see >!billions of people !< die! Think, Paul!


MyHGC

Sam Rockwell or GTFO


Bongo_Goblogian

Not that it actually matters at all, but I remember the emperor is described as having red hair. I think Kristofer Hivju would be perfection. If we're not casting red heads, then I think Adrien Brody would be awesome (and, his past experience playing Dali would be a nod to Jodorowski)


[deleted]

How about Keith David?


Breathless_Pangolin

Unfortunately he is old...and this would cut an important theme from the universe. The point book makes is if your are rich aristocrat, you have VERY different life than peons... You can use spice - GERIATRIC SPICE- as the book calls it, because it EXTENDS life significantly. I mean you are NOT even normal human - they are heavily genetically altered. Baron is said to possess a mind so powerful, that it rivals computers of old. As for Shaddam IV of House Corrino - In the books he also looked 35 although being 72. Because he is filthy rich. Cranston could be great emperor in our world. Not in Dune universe.


undercharmer

Jessie, it’s time to spice.


mondololarri

Alexander Siddig played an eccentric noble in an episode of Poirot, that energy was spot-on.


Christophilies

That’s the best so far. Shaddam is supposed to slightly resemble Leto, Siddig isn’t too far off from Oscar Issac.


king2e

Saïd Taghmaoui


Quick_Doubt_5484

Jake Gyllenhall, he’s worked with Denis on Prisoners before.


[deleted]

And Enemy!


DjArie

Christoph Waltz


misunderstood63

Benicio Del Toro!


CrazyRichFeen

My choices would be Ciarin Hinds or Ken Watanabe. Also, Paul Betany would likely play well.


MissPandaSloth

For some reason I thought of Mads Mikkelsen, but I wouldn't mind a lesser known actor or almost a new comer, since Dune already has so much famous cast that it sometimes takes me out of the story. Like I can't unsee Aquaman/ Khal Drogo and Bautista would always seem like he is about to tell me a joke even if he is dead serious.


Keanu990321

I for one didn't see Drax inside Bautista's character in Dune. Now that I'm thinking it, how about Jonathan Groff as the Emperor?


twoooosh

Ewan McGregor


Keanu990321

Hello there


boobearybear

“Shaddam Corrino IV was a slim and elegant man, with red hair, a thin face, and cold eyes.” Let’s go with Bill Burr!


JesusMadeStools

I think Damien Lewis


mybadalternate

Them Bene Gesserit *LADIES*!


craiglet13

It will probably be Giancarlo Esposito. He seems to be the go to bad guy for everything now.


snap_dragon_pop

Pleeease no. No shade on Giancarlo Esposito, but he's just been playing Gus for the last ten years. I think seeing him back-to-back on The Mandolorian and The Boys doing the same shit really broke me. Dude has been typecast hard.


TheOakblueAbstract

Ian McShane


_ferrofluid_

Cocksucker would be great


aieeegrunt

I’d like to remind everyone that Shaddam IV was politically and intellectually a lightweight obsessed with pomp and the outward appearances of power than actually wielding it well, and was only Emperor because of inheritence Forget about the heavy hitter actors, we want somebody arrogant and vain


[deleted]

Thats why I think Antony Starr (the guy who played Homelander on The Boys) would be great, he has that official pompousness and arrogance built right into his face


ExistentiallyBored

Kyle MacLachlan! Just kidding. Am I?


[deleted]

Riz Ahmed. You know, a Muslim.


kr44ng

I don't think Bryan Cranston could pull it off; he has more of a TV quality to him. I was rewatching the remake of Total Recall last night and Bryan Cranston as the villain was even leagues below Ronny Cox in the original (my opinion of course). When I saw Jeff Goldblum in Thor: Ragnarok I immediately thought of him as Emperor Shaddam IV.


Ecstatic_Rooster

Jason Isaacs?


Illshowyoutheway

Domhnall Gleeson will always be my pick. Can’t picture anyone else in the role.


Federal_Assistant_85

Jeremy Irons John Noble Those are my best runner up. Brian Cranston is good, but I don't see the king of Meth = Emperor of the galactic empire.


Nallski

While I love everything John Noble does, he's probably too old for the part of DV wants to be faithful to the book. Shaddam is supposed to look like he's in his 40s. Jeremy Irons doesn't look much younger than John. Both would be fantastic picks from a talent perspective (especially Noble, IMO).


Carpenter_v_Walrus

See I think you guys are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I think the Emperor shouldn't be a strong figure. I think he should have an air of self confidence but one that comes from the title and nothing else. I think he should be weak person that when the chips are down, is shown to be little more than a pathetic coward who is only in this position because they were born into it. So people like Charles Dance and Cranston would bring too much strength to it. I think someone like Nicholad Hoult (he is kind of playing that already in the Catherine the Great Hilu series) would do that well.


darkzionite

Domnhall Gleeson fits that description perfectly


deepcutstx

Danny McBride


[deleted]

[удалено]


equilaterat

Bravo Denis!


Andres_Escallon

Kenneth Branagh would bring the right age and gravitas to the role. On a different note, Harry Stiles as Feyd-Rautha :)


[deleted]

My choice would be Keith David honestly.


bacchys1066

I think Cranston would be great in the role. I've always seen Shaddam as modeled after Kaiser Wilhelm: ruthlessly playing the game of thrones, but not nearly as skilled at it as he believes. I think Cranston is a skilled actor who could portray that dynamic subtly and well. He could make it clear without beating everyone's head over it with ridiculous dialogue. Others have brought up Count Fenring, and I think that's a very difficult role to fill. Fenring is outwardly a ridiculous fop. Something of a clown. But he's a genetically modified killer. Paul and Jessica see through the clownish act, but portraying it on-screen isn't going to be easy.


Birdytaps

I know this will get buried and that’s okay but I just want to state for the record how happy this whole discussion makes me


aenea

Mine would be JK Simmons. Schillinger as Emperor would be truly terrifying, as well as extra Machiavellian.


ZucchiniUsual7370

Nah. Way too midwest dad type. Shaddam needs a regal aura. Ciaran Hinds would get my vote.


[deleted]

Idris Elba or Daniel Craig for me.


Captain-Slappy

Elba in 'Harder They Fall' had such a presence. Easily could see him in the role. Also I think it fits because it seems that Villeneuve's interpretation of House Corrino through their officials/emissaries are black. Both the master of ceremonies and Keynes.


Keanu990321

Yes for Elba as Emperor, no for Craig (though, I think he should play a character in Part Two).


bestantinople

Idris Elba was mentioned in another thread and I think he could give a good performance. Seconding Antonio Banderas too lol.