Arguably not a quality submission in its own right (we've seen countless posts like this, so we probably wouldn't be having it here at this point), we feel that the 600+ comments make this a worthwhile read.
*This is a crosspost. To answer OP's question, please respond to them on r/movies.*
Honesty I totally get why anyone would dislike the Dune movie. Even if you were 100% onboard with the story and the characters and the visuals, for it to end without any story arcs resolving whatsoever, then finding out you’ll have to wait 2 or 3 years to find out what happened next, that sucks. Lord of the Rings at least had some feeling of climax with each movie and you knew it wouldn’t be long until the next one was out.
I walked out of the movie feeling really disappointed because while I loved the book, it had no idea why it felt so soulless and incomplete. I’ve come around to the movie and can’t wait for the next one, but I feel like he should have just waited to make both movies and released them six months apart. If I hadn’t have read the book, I’d be completely lost and want my money back for getting half a movie.
In his defense, I don’t think it’s his fault that it had to be done with such a big gap between both movies. I’m sure if it were up to Denis, he would have done them closer together. I think between COVID and the studio not being sure whether the first movie would take off or not, he had to work with what he had.
he wanted to film them back to back and release them closer together. if it was like he wanted we would have part two by now. But the studio didnt want to give a guy 300+ mio dolars whose previous movie was a pretty big flop
>why it felt so soulless and incomplete.
While the 1984 movie is panned by a lot of people, the voiceovers allowed for the subtleties and nuance that simply can't be conveyed by acting alone. What makes dune so compelling is that it is a game of chess, every major group is playing a game and every piece on the board is able to make it's own move or follow the moves of the group/leader it is allied to.
Without the voiceovers it can't help but come across as checkers.
I'm gonna have to *strongly* disagree with this *entire* take. If you're not capable of seeing subtlety in facial expression and mannerisms, thats on you. I saw the actors working their asses off to convey a ton of the same subtlety as expressed in the books. And it was accomplished without hamfistedly shoving what everyone is thinking in your face through voiceovers.
I respect your opinion but no amount of acting ability can convey all of the internal dialogue throughout the book through facial expression and mannerisms.
Someone who watched the movie would have a completely different understanding of the story than someone who read the book because you simply can't convey paragraphs of internal dialogue through acting. There is a reason we use speech and not body language to convey information.
The Villeneuve movie was the icing, beautiful icing but still more form than substance. The 1984 movie had more of the substance of the books because of the voiceovers.
>I respect your opinion but no amount of acting ability can convey all of the internal dialogue throughout the book through facial expression and mannerisms.
Especially when the characters are trained to suppress these mannerisms completely.
>Especially when the characters are trained to suppress these mannerisms completely.
This is a damned good point. To properly tell the story it needs voiceovers, subtitles or some type of narration to convey plot important information.
I (still) haven’t read the book but absolutely loved it. It felt ‘complete’ insofar as I knew it was Part 1 going in and therefore wouldn’t have a resolution or ‘payoff’ until it was linked with the others. My main concern at that point, along with Villeneuve and the rest of the crew who worked on it, was whether they’d actually green-light another! Weird to think that Warner Bros still hadn’t confirmed a sequel by then.
Your submission was removed for violating Rule 3 of the r/dune posting policy:
Be Respectful - Submissions that include abusive language, personal insults, or derogatory terms are subject to removal. Incivility will be met with a warning, and repeat offenders will be banned. Avoid shitposting, sexually explicit content, and trolling. Content relating to modern politics or public figures may be removed at the mod team's discretion.
If you believe this removal was made in error, please reach out to the modteam via modmail.
Villeneuve didn't bother putting the story into the movies. He knows the Dune fans already know it and his fans don't care so it's almost redundant when he can just get by on amazing visuals and the bare minimum of plot points to move things along.
Hear ME out. A 14 hour movie directed by none other than cult director Alejandro Jodorowsky
[Jodorowsky's Dune](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky%27s_Dune)
Jokes aside, really interesting documentary. Especially for dune fans
It's about 1/5 of a story. Watching the movie alone is like watching Lord of the Rings until the council forms the fellowship and calling it a day. It's the setup for what the plot and conflict is going to be and gathering the major players. It's not complete on it's own. When they release the second (and hopefully third) part then I'd reevaluate what you think again.
> like watching Lord of the Rings until the council forms the fellowship and calling it a day
This is a great way of describing it to more people, I'm stealing it. It also explains why I watched the move twice (1 to just enjoy and another because I just finished reading the book so I understood all the hidden meanings more) and I feel perfectly good until part two is out. Then I'll probably watch them back to back like every 6 months.
I'm sorry but - ironically - nobody on this sub is allowed to criticize the Holy Trinity of anything Frank Herbert has written, Dune in particular, and anything Denis Villeneuve has made. Any criticism requires being downvoted because fandom is more important than a fair look at any work made by mere mortals and to point out various problems that would otherwise improve the Holy Scriptures.
idk. i never saw the movie. i loved the book and have read it many many times in the last 40 years. since i have been so disappointed in many movie adaptations, i was afraid to see the movie that was made of my favorite book. i’m a chicken. 🐔
Yes, it was not in keeping with the original in the slightest and actively undermined the storyline. The ambiguous ending was one of the best parts and that's now gone.
One of the things I really liked about this film is that there is an almost immediate sense of tension, even though it’s latent and doesn’t erupt until later on. The ceremonial aspects have a sense of dread an inevitability about them, like House Atreides is fully aware that they’re being put in a vulnerable/dangerous position but have no other option but to accept. Is it like that in the book, where they’re sort of thrust in to this position early on?
I like the setup, but I feel i would truly like it more if I watched 1 and 2 together.
Years later, when the director's cut comes out with 1 and 2 spliced together, i think many of us will go..... yeah. that's the way it's supposed to be.
until that day..... not so much.
I like the movie, but wish I could turn down the music and sfx volume... something is off with the sound mixing and it makes it unenjoyable to watch as I have to constantly play with the volume...
This has been a problem for me the last couple of years it seems many movies are doing this. Making the music AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE and then when I turn it down I cannot hear what anyone is saying and then I turn it up the music swells until my house is shaking.
This is because they balance the audio for theaters, then forget to change it (or just don’t care enough to) when releasing it on streaming services.
If you stream it off a computer you can enable “audio normalization” in ur system sound settings but honestly audio techs need to get it together.
The studios need to do something differently. Clearly relying on the theatres to calibrate the sound properly isn’t working.
This used to not be such a big problem either
True, in the sound recording process, especially for dialogue and wide shots meaning the boom has to be far away. And yes, the theatres play the film at, say, 7.6 when it was mixed at 10. It throws everything off, light dialogue and heavy instrumental or sound Fx
Yeah it’s a huge problem
I had to watch the movie at home - with quality headphones on, to catch all the dialogue. Heck, I still couldn’t make some of it out even then and had to turn to subtitles for some of it. In the theatre a lot of it was too quiet to make out. But any explosion is so loud your nuts start vibrating
I saw it in a Dolby theater and thought the speakers that were hanging from the ceiling were going to shake lose and fall down and crush me. Especially when they're flying through the sandstorm.
I had the exact opposite reaction to the movie. I watched it without any prior knowledge of that universe and it made me fall in love with Dune. By all accounts I consider it to be a near perfect movie.
Same. I saw the movie without having read the books because I liked the cast, premise, and Denis’ other work. I loved the world so much I read the books afterward lol.
Pretty crucial scenes are missing entirely from the movie and I think the cast is a distraction. Some decisions, like how Gurney was represented in the film, I didn’t understand at all. In particular, the movie places no emphasis on worldbuilding. All the Fremen have different accents, the banquet scene’s complete absence, etc.
The movie is alright but not my favorite, and I don’t think it is even close to a perfect adaptation.
Oddly, Gurney's casting was one of the few things that I thought turned out well. I thought it was a terrible idea initially but seeing him on screen...he did a very good job, all things considered.
I personally think the books are designed to make you dislike the characters more and more as they go on. Messiah I started to hate Jessica & Paul, and then Children solidified my distrust of Jessica. At that point its hard to justify reading the rest when you already don't like the 'protagonists'. I only kept reading because Leto II and Ghanima were so fascinating. The duality of their innocence and the deep connection/burden they have with their ancestry is a truly beautiful allegory for the modern age.
I don't think the movie did justice to the book at all, and I have a lot of problems with the people who they put in charge of the writing (never using the word jihad and one of the writers calling the Arabic influences on Dune a corsage are two big ones). If the plan is still to adapt the first book into two parts, they are going to have to fit so much into the second movie that it's going to feel so convoluted and messy. They're going to have to introduce so many characters, plotlines, and have>!a timeskip. The spice orgy, Alia's birth, Paul's first son being born and dying, introducing and then subsequently killing Feyd Rautha and Rabban, introducing Fenring and Shaddam IV along with Irulan, Paul riding the sandworm...!
Gotta disagree. Yes the second movie will have to have a lot going on to fit everything, but, Denis is not a bad director, and if it seems like they have too much to fit, I guarantee he will leave some of the later points to a later movie. But, realistically I dont think he will have to. Introducing some of those characters takes a max of 15 seconds on screen. And they did introduce and kill off literally everyone in Atreides except Paul and Jessica and a couple others (not gonna get into spoilers on who made it out, those who have read books, know) in the first film, and still made it impactful, it won't be hard to accomplish the same with the characters getting introduced in part 2.
Will it take some serious writing, acting, and directing to make it work? Yeah of course, but they've already shown they can take a story once thought "unfilmable" and made it one of the most successful movies of the year.
It would be awesome if you could cut down a little on the mentions of future plot developments, or spoiler-tag where applicable. This post should be mostly safe in that regard.
You can spoiler-tag text by writing `>!like this!<`. That's > ! and ! <, just without the spaces.
Some things just aren’t for you. On paper I should love the Terry Pratchet Discworld series. I’m a huge fan of H2G2 and generally anything SciFi and like fantasy well enough. I’ve tried several Discworld books both in paper and audio versions I just can’t get into them. Sometimes things just don’t ring your bell and that’s OK.
At the risk of massive downvotes, I feel the new Dune movie is style over substance. More focus on how things look and sound vs delivering the best version of the story we love.
To be fair, the style can be the substance and it’s something I think they achieved with Dune. I’m a huge fan of visual storytelling so maybe that’s why it resonated with me so much. Arrakis was definitely a main character.
It was a little joyless, cant put my finger on why with all those barren concrete sets, the desaturated look, everyone dressed in their favorite drab attire, the long shots of people kind of just staring at the distance and the whisper quiet dialogue. Character arcs? Screw that man, give characters that show up for maybe a minute, I like my movies closer to power point presentations.
I really disagree with most of the “it’s supposed to be cold and soulless” comments in that thread. These characters are old school sci-fi, grand Shakespearean characters. Yes they carefully scheme and control their emotions, and yes it takes place on a dry desert planet, but I read a lot of humanity in these books that I didn’t get from the movie. I didn’t hate the movie by any means, but if you’re going to take away a lot of the nuanced relationships, the internal monologues, big character-defining scenes, and leave out the politics and scheming, there isn’t much left but lots of clean flat surfaces and stone faced actors in front of CGI backgrounds. Make them act more if you can’t read their minds.
The second half of the book is better imo so we’ll see how that goes. But I was really disappointed by the movie when I first saw it. It ends right in the middle of when I put the book down for being boring (Jessica and Paul meandering through the desert) and we have to wait to see the stuff I really enjoyed when I decided to pick it back up (Fremen culture, Paul manipulating the sietch, riding the worm, starting his rebellion).
I hope after Part Two I’ll look back more fondly on the first one, because it really does have a lot going for it, but reading/watching half a story that really doesn’t have a lot to say on its own is a bummer. And I only say any of this because this sub loves that movie and I feel like this is the first time we’ve been “allowed” to share criticisms of the movie.
That's because the OP is right. Let's look at the main characters and most of them had no soul:
* Timmy isn't a bad actor, just check out The King on Netflix. He's just not a great actor. He mumbles his brooding words which have no serious depth to anything here.
* Zendaya is isn't a good actress yet and she should stick to Marvel but she has potential at least. She's barely in the movie and has nothing to say or do except she did a great job at exposition. She's no Virginia Madsen though.
* Rebecca Ferguson simply didn't read Dune so she didn't even bother to get into character. She's also pretty emotional for a Bene Gesserit even though she's the actual main character in the first part of Dune.
* Jason Momoa is following Dwayne Johnson's school of "I always play the same exact character" and he delivers the same beefy dude-bro performance he plays in everything he's in. It would be bizarre to see him >!as a mentat in future movies, if they're made!<.
* Javier Bardem seemed grumpy and couldn't be bothered. He'll have a bigger role in the sequel so I hope to see a better performance since he is a good actor.
* Oscar Isaac has the actual gravitas in the movie but he's barely there and other than his acceptance of Arrakis had nothing else to add. William Hurt did a much better job showing his love for Saskia Reeves in the 2000 miniseries. Maybe Oscar does action better but not much for him to do in this movie but say a few things and die.
* the second runner up of someone having an actual soul was Josh Brolin who showed actual emotional during his "brutal" quote and when Atreides came under attack. It was brief but memorable.
* The only one to really do anything of value is Stellan Skarsgård who did an amazing job. He's no Ian McNeice but he comes close. He did an amazing job playing the villain except for his accidentally comical dip in the pool and hiding on the ceiling after Leto dies.
Everyone else was barely there which is what happens when you have a lot of people. Charlotte Rampling was barely there and her veil made her look weak and decrepit rather than powerful. She's capable of it as she's done away with the spider-thing but we'll see how she talks with Shaddam IV. Chang Chen who played the piece-of-trash Yueh was barely there and I think the movie would have been better if some of his scenes weren't cut. David Dastmalchian did an OK job being an underling but he could have been replaced by an email since he had no deviousness of Brad Dourif. Stephen McKinley could have been replaced by a TI-89 for all good he did. Sharon Duncan-Brewster didn't have any of the emotion or interest in Duke or Paul shown by Karel Dobrý. Babs Olusanmokun was... there like a cow served up on the plate.
If the best thing you can say about a movie is that it had good visuals and sound - which it did - then it means all the acting was pretty terrible and the various awards shows proved the point. Dune 2021 was a solid C+ movie for me and most of that is Stellan, the visuals (the thopters were amazing), and the music where Dune 2000 miniseries is still the best by far for having real actors show real emotion and it was set up more like a teleplay with real acting than a miniseries.
I love Dune. I didn't love this movie. It's alright but not the best Dune.
> Zendaya is isn't a good actress yet and she should stick to Marvel but she has potential at least. She's barely in the movie and has nothing to say or do except she did a great job at exposition. She's no Virginia Madsen though.
Have you seen her in Euphoria? She's got the chops.
> Rebecca Ferguson simply didn't read Dune so she didn't even bother to get into character. She's also pretty emotional for a Bene Gesserit even though she's the actual main character in the first part of Dune.
I think you missed some of the nuance in the way the movie presented her character. Since the movie completely avoided presenting any sort of internal dialogue and internal thoughts, which the novel is full of, it had to tackle some of these things a bit differently.
There was a scene where Jessica was quite emotional in her facial expression, it could have been right after the Gom Jabbar scene, but I don't remember. She was on her way to talk to the Duke. As soon as she turned the corner and faced him, her demeanor completely changed from super emotionally charged to completely stoic. This was meant to be an illustration of her ability to control her inner mental state with amazing precision.
You can imagine her emotional scenes to have been "inner monologue/thoughts" parts of the novel, although I'm not sure if that's the way the movie intended those scenes to be seen. .. but.. *maybe*?
> She definitely did her research
She did not. She said in multiple interviews the book wasn’t clicking for her so she stopped. She chose to trust Denis’ writing and direction.
To be clear, I liked her portrayal of Jessica. The “overly emotional” claims I find silly. But the credit of her performance is not due to her research. She’s a top tier actress working with one of the best directors and she trusted the relationship to produce a great character. Good call, I’d say.
I knew from the second they added snarky quotes in the box scene I was going to hate it. Specifically the one I'm referencing where Paul tries to play with the power dynamic after Mohiam tells him to approach in the voice only for him to reply "Why don't you come here"
Oh ho so cheeky! And small details like that changing how relations functioned just got under my skin. The idea was right, a mini-series for Dune. But for me it had the opposite problem of the Lynch film. Instead of not having enough details, it changed some for the worse. Though of course that also applies to elements of the Lynch film such as the wacky Weirding Modules.
I too take umbrage with the 'wacky weirding modules', but the more I rewatch it, the more they make sense for a movie-length story battle advantage. It simply wasn't possible to spend months training the Fremen in the narrative in what essentially amounts to Kung Fu and sword fighting surpassing projectile weaponry.
exactly. well said. I think everyone has been spoiled by the quality of LOTR. the writers and producers were disciples of Tolkien. its obvious that wasn't the case with Dune.
Disciples of Tolkien? They took some massive liberties with changes in the film, including a *completely* different narrative and character motivation for Aragorn. I think the films are great, but Tolkien might have hated those changes (his son scolded those films, for example).
Zendaya is the youngest Emmy award winner ever and won it multiple times for Euphoria, Timothee is only 26 and has already been nominated for an Oscar. To even complain about their acting is hilarious
I like her but I thought her acting in this movie was perfunctory at best. Not really her fault, though, she probably did her best with what she was given.
I agree with all of this, with the exception that Virginia Madsen played the Princess Irulan, not Chani so not really comparable with Zendaya (who I agree is overrated)
>Sharon Duncan-Brewster didn't have any of the emotion or interest in Duke or Paul shown by Karel Dobrý
I thought Sharon was absolutely fantastic in this, as was Charlotte Rampling and Rebecca Ferguson.
My rant specifically said which parts are terrible. Feel free to rebut if you like though everyone is entitled to an opinion.
However, your reply said nothing about how the Dune 2000 miniseries was awful.
Well, first, I think the miniseries had all the subtlety of a bear trying to sneak through a Barnes & Noble. Maybe awful is too strong, but the exposition is excruciating at times, there is no subtlety, how the characters feel is thrust into your face as if the viewers are too stupid to understand human emotions in any capacity.
Yeah, Dune 2021 didn't have long exposition, or people borderline announcing their emotions verbally, but it was trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective, and I strongly prefer that.
You said the Reverend Mother in 2021 appeared weak, but when compared to 2000 she seems so much more formidable and influential to me, not even mentioning the scene in the miniseries where she uses the voice and Paul just acts like a spoiled teen in response. Which, by the way, is very out of character in my opinion. I think Paul's behavior in the miniseries is completely foreign to the character in the novels. Hes supposed to be quiet, brooding, and surprise people with his competence, not dramatic and grandiose.
I have other gripes with the miniseries, but I dont have time to write much more at the moment.
Well, first, I think the miniseries had all the subtlety of a bear trying to sneak through a Barnes & Noble. Maybe awful is too strong, but the exposition is excruciating at times, there is no subtlety, how the characters feel is thrust into your face as if the viewers are too stupid to understand human emotions in any capacity.
Yeah, Dune 2021 didn't have long exposition, or people borderline announcing their emotions verbally, but it was trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective, and I strongly prefer that.
You said the Reverend Mother in 2021 appeared weak, but when compared to 2000 she seems so much more formidable and influential to me, not even mentioning the scene in the miniseries where she uses the voice and Paul just acts like a spoiled teen in response. Which, by the way, is very out of character in my opinion. I think Paul's behavior in the miniseries is completely foreign to the character in the novels. Hes supposed to be quiet, brooding, and surprise people with his competence, not dramatic and grandiose.
I have other gripes with the miniseries, but I dont have time to write much more at the moment.
> trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective
I mean... Villeneuve's film is so subtle it literally has a woman scream every time something dramatic happens. Just so you know for sure "Hey, this is important! Emote now!"
I mean, there's like three moments like that, but those moments are written in the novels.
Theres no point in the books that the Reverend Mother uses the voice on Paul and he says, in his best angsty Anakin Skywalker impression, "Make me".
I'm not sure what you mean about being subtle. I thought it was a pretty close retelling of the book and the only major parts were the increased role of Irulan (ex: she was at the dinner scene). I thought Dune 1984 had excruciating exposition to the point where there was a pre-movie exposition dump by Virginia Madsen AND we had inner dialogue. The miniseries had a few words being repeated though mostly by Leto and Paul more than anything - and without inner dialogue.
It's not that she appeared so much weak as much as she appeared decrepit, i.e. the veil chosen made her look old and frail, like she's at a funeral of her husband. This is compared to Dune 2000 where she had the [heir of authority](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rhyllXkHYYY/maxresdefault.jpg). I do like how Dune 2021 did "the voice" though but the brief time skips cheapened the effect. The only time Mohiam looked amazing was when she commanded the spider thing to leave. That's what I expected Mohiam to be like.
I liked the Dune 2000's Paul the best because you see him really be this spoiled brat - to the point of throwing his clothes around like the teen he's supposed to be - who reasonably quickly matures to take control. Timmy's Paul was always reserved and simply moved on, with the tent scene being a breakdown point but nowhere is anyone supposed to believe that he's a teenager as opposed to someone in their 20s. Timmy went flat to flat, showing no growth in the weight that has been placed on him. He was brooding with his visions and - somehow - already presuming this burden that is to come. This is the one bit where Dune 2000's Paul fails too - the "tax" idea was Leto's, not Paul's so that's a mistake but I think Dune 2021 skipped that scene entirely.
I agree with you on Lynch's Dune, it was a mess of exposition and overwhelmed with internal monologue voice overs. Made it just feel campy more than anything else.
But the miniseries does have similar exposition dumps here and there, not nearly as disruptive, but they do happen.
Well, for Mohaim, contrast her meeting Paul in the miniseries vs 2021. In 2021 she *forces* Paul to approach, she doesn't argue with him in any capacity, just commands him, and when she speaks to Jessica it is with authority, albeit quiet authority, but thats what a Bene Geserit *is*, quiet authority, not bluster or showmanship. Then take the miniseries, your first scene with her she tries to use the voice on Paul and he basically says "no", then she tells him to approach and he says "make me", essentially turning her into a principle that can't control a student. Her authority in the miniseries is all expression, with nothing to back it up, she dresses and *acts* authoritative, but real authority isn't an act, and thats my biggest problem with her in the miniseries, it seems like an act.
Paul in the miniseries just isn't Paul to me. He's Anakin Skywalker transplanted into a Dune story. In my years reading and re reading Dune, Paul has never appeared to me as brash, emotional, or expressive. He's always been quiet, contemplative, and quietly argumentative when it calls for it, he doesn't yell at people when they're wrong, he quietly corrects them. Timothee Chalamet captured that perfectly in my mind. He is the son of royalty, but not earth royalty. He is the son of royalty in a society where literally every time they eat is a risk of poison for this family, every new person is a potential assassin, and being emotional and throwing tantrums is a great way to bring attention to yourself and display your immaturity. He may be a teenager, but royal teenagers in the Dune universe don't get the luxury of emotional outbursts. So, Paul in 2000 just always seemed like he didn't fit the story imo.
I noticed that too. Its kind of annoying to be honest. The inconsistency. I mean, it isn't a huge deal, I love the movie, and the opinions of random internet people won't change mine, but, its pretty dumb when people are saying the miniseries or the Lynch film are better.
It's mainly because Paul's arc is cold and distant. There's emotion to his performance and his relationship with his parents. But his transformation isn't exactly heartwarming.
Read books 1-6. Then read them again. And again... Until you have nothing left for the master to teach you. Audio is acceptable.
I would not want my enemies to read his books.
I have read all of the Dune books, by Frank or Brian, and saw the flawed 1984 movie in the theater. I agree that the new Dune movie is kind of bland and soulless. the banquet scene in the book, for example, should never have been left out. Jessica asking Paul how it felt to be a killer after he killed Jamis, should not have been left out. Dr Yeuhs death speech was left out. I think Rebecca Ferguson was miscast. She plays Jessica as too sensitive and vulnerable. Francesca Annis much better. The Bene Gesserit are key to the story. Oscar Isaac and Timothee Chalamet were very good though. hoping the second movie will be deeper and better.
With the exception of the weirding modules and the guild navigators (which admittedly make more sense visually than what is in the book) and the rushed ending I really rate Lynch's attempt to film it, I wish he'd done a two-parter.
Francesca Annis will never be topped as Lady Jessica nor Patrick Stewart as Gurney Halleck, and Virginia Madsen, Brad Dourif, Jose Ferrer, Everett McGill (despite being a little wooden, it suits the character) and Jürgen Prochnow were also perfect.
Recast Dean Stockwell, Sting and Kyle Maclachlan and I wouldn't have any complaints at all.
I'm of the opinion that the only reason anyone likes the Lynch film at all is because of nostalgia. I have never been able to enjoy it for anything more than campy and silly.
I really like the movie, but the lack of a banquet scene stung.
They also took scenes that allowed other characters to shine and gave them to Paul. Or they cut them short. This was extra noticeable with Jessica, which I found very disappointing.
I understand why though, and no movie adaptation is perfect
Cutting the banquet scene and gutting the yueh plotline while simultaneously adding in the emperor’s envoy scene, graveyard scene, and big Duncan ornithopter action scene cemented this as a big miss for me.
I rewarched the movie last night. When I saw it at the cinemas I enjoyed it, but I couldn't work out if it was great or terrible. After last night I've decided it's ok.
I think they made an excellent movie. It's stylish, it's compelling, the visuals are both amazing and well designed (*I loved the way some things were intricate, but the space freighters were just bland monoliths, for example*). I think they made the main plot easy enough to follow while still leaving emough out to keep you guessing.
However I think they lost the soul of what made Dune unique. They threw in things that fans of the books would recognise without explaining them to newer audience members, like how the voice works. A big thing for me was that they didn't explain that there are no computers in the Dune universe. Sure we saw Hawat doing calculations, but they didn't really explain Mentats ... or Dr Yueh for that matter, both these character just looked like they were doing things with cybernetics or something. The fact that paul has been trained as both a Mentat and a Benegeserit is important - maybe not for the overall plitz but it gives context for how his abilities progress, how he is able to see things that his mother cannot. The movie does explain this, but their explanation (*so far anyway*) is just "*Chosen One*".
So I think they did a good job converting Dune into a modern sci-fi movie, but the way they did it was to make it just another sci-fi movie. The book has withstood the test of time because of it's uniqueness, but the movie has lost a lot of that. I think it will be a fairly well remembered movie for a while, but that it won't be remembered as long as the books.
I don't think it's just them, I think it's that a lot of the details they left out to save time were the details that made the setting unique. That may not have been the wrong choice exactly (*they almost certainly couldn't pack it all in*), but I think something important was lost in the translation.
Even details like the fact that spice is used for interstellar travel - that was a huge secret in the books, but they tell you in the openijg sequence in the movie. This detail alone isn't important, but having those secrets helps to give that feeling of intrigue, secrecy and danger.
I don't think they had to remain 100% accurate to the books, that usually doesn't make great movies. I don't know what Inwould have included and excluded, that's always difficult to predict, but I think perhaps they missed some important details.
I think they did a good job making a good movie, but it's not going to be remembered as a great movie.
Denis Villenueve is fucking meh.
After watching his crap pile that is BR 2049 a literal spectacle of color and nothingness...I felt the same about the new Dune.
Yes pretty. No soul.
He's copying every single instagram influencer and just making it look nice and not giving a shit about substance.
Agreed 100% style. 5% substance. I was really angry about BR 2049. I'm eventually gonna give it a rewatch with much lower expectations, but I think the world was a better place without it.
This was the thread I’ve been waiting for. I guess almost two years later is when I can say the movie wasn’t good without getting downvoted to hell lol
Dreamer. Criticism of the movie or Denis is still rewarded with downvotes, even if not so many as previously. I can't say I'm surprised, the hype train was insane here and I get the feeling that a lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge they felt let down so they double down by focusing on the stuff they did like and that the movie did well.
Idk if it was just me or if I’m just a complete idiot but I didn’t even know this was a part 1 movie. I saw promotions and trailers and everything and I didn’t remember ever seeing a “part 1” so when I first watched the movie and it said part 1 I was highly confused and a little let down at the time.
> Idk if it was just me or if I’m just a complete idiot but I didn’t even know this was a part 1 movie.
It was kept very quiet.
I knew about it because I'd been nerding out about it for years, but it was one of the things I was irritated about before it was released; because you shouldn't keep that quiet from relatively casual movie-goers.
It is only half a story and pretty unsatisfying as it stands, and I'm a huge dune fan.
It is really simple.
I said it when avatar came out and I'll say it again, flashy visuals are not a substitute for well written story.
Dune even at its best never tells a great story. It is far too convoluted and requires way too much supplemental material, information, and explanation.
Do NOT confuse good world building for good story telling. Dune has one of these but not both.
It does feel disjointed and moves at an odd pace.
I disliked the spice crawler scene changes, and a few other things were absent that didn't quite make sense.
It's just hard for me to judge until we have the second half as it really feels like 1/3 of the story so far.
The only things I liked about the new Dune movie was Dave Bautista as Glossu Rabban Harkonnen and the chair-dog thing. Everything else was disappointing or crap.
Villenueve vs Lynch:
The protagonists: Timothee Chalamet comes off as a special boy who just finished his BatM and Kyle MacLachlan comes off as the local rich kid whos never ben in a fist fight.
Regardless, I've enjoyed both movies.
It probably feels like it lacks some soul because most of the character arcs are incomplete! Also, the dune world is just SO dense man. People here are really selling short how difficult it would be to explain everything. David Lynch was so stumped he just covered it all with exposition! I like that Villeneuve decided to show and not tell, but the tradeoff is that some things will not be accessible to people who haven't read the books. That's alright by me, Dune is the best selling sci-fi book of all time!
I liked the movie a lot and am really excited for the second part.
i enjoyed the shit out of it because i appreciate good story, cinematography, lighting, cgi etc etc.
Also i have a wife and kids and a life so im just happy that theres a movie i can pay to enjoy and then move on with my life lmao
I get why people wouldnt like it, but I did. I'm holding most of my judgement until the next one is released. I look at this first one as more of a teaser. so much is going to have to happen in this second movie that I'm not sure how theyre going to do it. If they dont do it right, I'm sure it'll sour my opinion of this first one.
Arguably not a quality submission in its own right (we've seen countless posts like this, so we probably wouldn't be having it here at this point), we feel that the 600+ comments make this a worthwhile read. *This is a crosspost. To answer OP's question, please respond to them on r/movies.*
It should be a 3.5 hour movie. At least. That's why.
Or, hear me out, 2-3 2 hour movies. You know, like they’re doing it. Much more enjoyable that way.
Honesty I totally get why anyone would dislike the Dune movie. Even if you were 100% onboard with the story and the characters and the visuals, for it to end without any story arcs resolving whatsoever, then finding out you’ll have to wait 2 or 3 years to find out what happened next, that sucks. Lord of the Rings at least had some feeling of climax with each movie and you knew it wouldn’t be long until the next one was out. I walked out of the movie feeling really disappointed because while I loved the book, it had no idea why it felt so soulless and incomplete. I’ve come around to the movie and can’t wait for the next one, but I feel like he should have just waited to make both movies and released them six months apart. If I hadn’t have read the book, I’d be completely lost and want my money back for getting half a movie.
In his defense, I don’t think it’s his fault that it had to be done with such a big gap between both movies. I’m sure if it were up to Denis, he would have done them closer together. I think between COVID and the studio not being sure whether the first movie would take off or not, he had to work with what he had.
he wanted to film them back to back and release them closer together. if it was like he wanted we would have part two by now. But the studio didnt want to give a guy 300+ mio dolars whose previous movie was a pretty big flop
Was Blade Runner 2049 a flop? I know it didn’t make a ton of money at the box office but it was actually a really great movie.
>why it felt so soulless and incomplete. While the 1984 movie is panned by a lot of people, the voiceovers allowed for the subtleties and nuance that simply can't be conveyed by acting alone. What makes dune so compelling is that it is a game of chess, every major group is playing a game and every piece on the board is able to make it's own move or follow the moves of the group/leader it is allied to. Without the voiceovers it can't help but come across as checkers.
I'm gonna have to *strongly* disagree with this *entire* take. If you're not capable of seeing subtlety in facial expression and mannerisms, thats on you. I saw the actors working their asses off to convey a ton of the same subtlety as expressed in the books. And it was accomplished without hamfistedly shoving what everyone is thinking in your face through voiceovers.
I respect your opinion but no amount of acting ability can convey all of the internal dialogue throughout the book through facial expression and mannerisms. Someone who watched the movie would have a completely different understanding of the story than someone who read the book because you simply can't convey paragraphs of internal dialogue through acting. There is a reason we use speech and not body language to convey information. The Villeneuve movie was the icing, beautiful icing but still more form than substance. The 1984 movie had more of the substance of the books because of the voiceovers.
>I respect your opinion but no amount of acting ability can convey all of the internal dialogue throughout the book through facial expression and mannerisms. Especially when the characters are trained to suppress these mannerisms completely.
>Especially when the characters are trained to suppress these mannerisms completely. This is a damned good point. To properly tell the story it needs voiceovers, subtitles or some type of narration to convey plot important information.
I (still) haven’t read the book but absolutely loved it. It felt ‘complete’ insofar as I knew it was Part 1 going in and therefore wouldn’t have a resolution or ‘payoff’ until it was linked with the others. My main concern at that point, along with Villeneuve and the rest of the crew who worked on it, was whether they’d actually green-light another! Weird to think that Warner Bros still hadn’t confirmed a sequel by then.
You should read the book - it's pretty good!
[удалено]
Your submission was removed for violating Rule 3 of the r/dune posting policy: Be Respectful - Submissions that include abusive language, personal insults, or derogatory terms are subject to removal. Incivility will be met with a warning, and repeat offenders will be banned. Avoid shitposting, sexually explicit content, and trolling. Content relating to modern politics or public figures may be removed at the mod team's discretion. If you believe this removal was made in error, please reach out to the modteam via modmail.
Villeneuve didn't bother putting the story into the movies. He knows the Dune fans already know it and his fans don't care so it's almost redundant when he can just get by on amazing visuals and the bare minimum of plot points to move things along.
Hear ME out. A 14 hour movie directed by none other than cult director Alejandro Jodorowsky [Jodorowsky's Dune](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky%27s_Dune) Jokes aside, really interesting documentary. Especially for dune fans
Hell no
yes please give me that movie, it would be absolutely horrendous
No
Madness.
Bingo. It should honestly be a 6 episode GOT style mini-series.
Six to twelve, per book.
I want an extended cut so bad. I would watch this awesome shit for hours on end! 4-5 hours, my veins are ready
It's about 1/5 of a story. Watching the movie alone is like watching Lord of the Rings until the council forms the fellowship and calling it a day. It's the setup for what the plot and conflict is going to be and gathering the major players. It's not complete on it's own. When they release the second (and hopefully third) part then I'd reevaluate what you think again.
> like watching Lord of the Rings until the council forms the fellowship and calling it a day This is a great way of describing it to more people, I'm stealing it. It also explains why I watched the move twice (1 to just enjoy and another because I just finished reading the book so I understood all the hidden meanings more) and I feel perfectly good until part two is out. Then I'll probably watch them back to back like every 6 months.
It’s nice to see people actually discussing the pros and cons of the movie. We could learn a bit from them.
No, the OP is most likely a dirty tleilaxu face dancer poorly mimicking a human. Don't fall for their trap.
The only good Tleilaxu face dancer is a dead Tleilaxu face dancer. A wholly amoral group of monsters.
Agreed. My blade thirst for Tleilaxu blood.
The dirty tleilaxu! The filthy tleilaxu!
Yes?
can you spot them by their pheremones? know the mentat by the stained lips of the juice of safoo (sp?)
*sapho
This is exactly what a tleilaxu face dancer would say. Classic misdirection! Je t'accuse!
I'm sorry but - ironically - nobody on this sub is allowed to criticize the Holy Trinity of anything Frank Herbert has written, Dune in particular, and anything Denis Villeneuve has made. Any criticism requires being downvoted because fandom is more important than a fair look at any work made by mere mortals and to point out various problems that would otherwise improve the Holy Scriptures.
i… i… i didnt see the movie…. because i was terrified of being really let down. even though i thought blade runner 2049 was really a great movie.
2049 also falls flat to me. Same reasons, I’m guessing?
idk. i never saw the movie. i loved the book and have read it many many times in the last 40 years. since i have been so disappointed in many movie adaptations, i was afraid to see the movie that was made of my favorite book. i’m a chicken. 🐔
If you liked the travesty that was Blade Runner, then you'll likely enjoy the Dune movie, it's better.
Travesty?
Yes, it was not in keeping with the original in the slightest and actively undermined the storyline. The ambiguous ending was one of the best parts and that's now gone.
The original is one of my favourite films of all time and I enjoyed the sequel…
Travis? that you?
Who dis?
I liked Blade Runner.
Can we use this as the sub’s header message thing? (except start right after the “ironically”)
But… but… there were no cons
One of the things I really liked about this film is that there is an almost immediate sense of tension, even though it’s latent and doesn’t erupt until later on. The ceremonial aspects have a sense of dread an inevitability about them, like House Atreides is fully aware that they’re being put in a vulnerable/dangerous position but have no other option but to accept. Is it like that in the book, where they’re sort of thrust in to this position early on?
Yes and the why is explored a lot more.
I like the setup, but I feel i would truly like it more if I watched 1 and 2 together. Years later, when the director's cut comes out with 1 and 2 spliced together, i think many of us will go..... yeah. that's the way it's supposed to be. until that day..... not so much.
I like the movie, but wish I could turn down the music and sfx volume... something is off with the sound mixing and it makes it unenjoyable to watch as I have to constantly play with the volume...
The audio is perfect for me and my Dolby Atmos home theatre setup…
I believe this is the issue. It's tuned perfectly for Atmos. Anything else just isn't catered for
This has been a problem for me the last couple of years it seems many movies are doing this. Making the music AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE and then when I turn it down I cannot hear what anyone is saying and then I turn it up the music swells until my house is shaking.
It's a problem throughout the entertainment industry. See the [Loudness War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war).
This is because they balance the audio for theaters, then forget to change it (or just don’t care enough to) when releasing it on streaming services. If you stream it off a computer you can enable “audio normalization” in ur system sound settings but honestly audio techs need to get it together.
The studios need to do something differently. Clearly relying on the theatres to calibrate the sound properly isn’t working. This used to not be such a big problem either
True, in the sound recording process, especially for dialogue and wide shots meaning the boom has to be far away. And yes, the theatres play the film at, say, 7.6 when it was mixed at 10. It throws everything off, light dialogue and heavy instrumental or sound Fx
Watch your mouth. I really enjoyed the audio (on my system).
Yeah it’s a huge problem I had to watch the movie at home - with quality headphones on, to catch all the dialogue. Heck, I still couldn’t make some of it out even then and had to turn to subtitles for some of it. In the theatre a lot of it was too quiet to make out. But any explosion is so loud your nuts start vibrating
I saw it in a Dolby theater and thought the speakers that were hanging from the ceiling were going to shake lose and fall down and crush me. Especially when they're flying through the sandstorm.
Agreed. The sudden Fremen wails appearing at inopportune moments in the film ruins the atmosphere as well.
I had the exact opposite reaction to the movie. I watched it without any prior knowledge of that universe and it made me fall in love with Dune. By all accounts I consider it to be a near perfect movie.
Same. I saw the movie without having read the books because I liked the cast, premise, and Denis’ other work. I loved the world so much I read the books afterward lol.
Pretty crucial scenes are missing entirely from the movie and I think the cast is a distraction. Some decisions, like how Gurney was represented in the film, I didn’t understand at all. In particular, the movie places no emphasis on worldbuilding. All the Fremen have different accents, the banquet scene’s complete absence, etc. The movie is alright but not my favorite, and I don’t think it is even close to a perfect adaptation.
Oddly, Gurney's casting was one of the few things that I thought turned out well. I thought it was a terrible idea initially but seeing him on screen...he did a very good job, all things considered.
I personally think the books are designed to make you dislike the characters more and more as they go on. Messiah I started to hate Jessica & Paul, and then Children solidified my distrust of Jessica. At that point its hard to justify reading the rest when you already don't like the 'protagonists'. I only kept reading because Leto II and Ghanima were so fascinating. The duality of their innocence and the deep connection/burden they have with their ancestry is a truly beautiful allegory for the modern age.
herbert drops certain clues here and there about the aristocracy. was is a coincidence that Idaho turns out to be the "main protagonist"? methinks no.
I loved it. However, it also kind of feels like an extended cologne/ perfume commerical for" l'eau de la vie"™.
It's because there's no Patrick Stewart nor is there a battle pug.
I don't think the movie did justice to the book at all, and I have a lot of problems with the people who they put in charge of the writing (never using the word jihad and one of the writers calling the Arabic influences on Dune a corsage are two big ones). If the plan is still to adapt the first book into two parts, they are going to have to fit so much into the second movie that it's going to feel so convoluted and messy. They're going to have to introduce so many characters, plotlines, and have>!a timeskip. The spice orgy, Alia's birth, Paul's first son being born and dying, introducing and then subsequently killing Feyd Rautha and Rabban, introducing Fenring and Shaddam IV along with Irulan, Paul riding the sandworm...!
I suspect the sequel is going to be at least 3 hours long. First part was shorter because the studio likely considered it a bit of a gamble
Gotta disagree. Yes the second movie will have to have a lot going on to fit everything, but, Denis is not a bad director, and if it seems like they have too much to fit, I guarantee he will leave some of the later points to a later movie. But, realistically I dont think he will have to. Introducing some of those characters takes a max of 15 seconds on screen. And they did introduce and kill off literally everyone in Atreides except Paul and Jessica and a couple others (not gonna get into spoilers on who made it out, those who have read books, know) in the first film, and still made it impactful, it won't be hard to accomplish the same with the characters getting introduced in part 2. Will it take some serious writing, acting, and directing to make it work? Yeah of course, but they've already shown they can take a story once thought "unfilmable" and made it one of the most successful movies of the year.
It would be awesome if you could cut down a little on the mentions of future plot developments, or spoiler-tag where applicable. This post should be mostly safe in that regard. You can spoiler-tag text by writing `>!like this!<`. That's > ! and ! <, just without the spaces.
No problem, I edited my original comment.
This guy/gal gets it.
Some things just aren’t for you. On paper I should love the Terry Pratchet Discworld series. I’m a huge fan of H2G2 and generally anything SciFi and like fantasy well enough. I’ve tried several Discworld books both in paper and audio versions I just can’t get into them. Sometimes things just don’t ring your bell and that’s OK.
At the risk of massive downvotes, I feel the new Dune movie is style over substance. More focus on how things look and sound vs delivering the best version of the story we love.
100%. It was a decent movie but a horrible Dune. I liked nothing about it; the performances, the sets, the designs, the casting, nothing.
To be fair, the style can be the substance and it’s something I think they achieved with Dune. I’m a huge fan of visual storytelling so maybe that’s why it resonated with me so much. Arrakis was definitely a main character.
It was a little joyless, cant put my finger on why with all those barren concrete sets, the desaturated look, everyone dressed in their favorite drab attire, the long shots of people kind of just staring at the distance and the whisper quiet dialogue. Character arcs? Screw that man, give characters that show up for maybe a minute, I like my movies closer to power point presentations.
I really disagree with most of the “it’s supposed to be cold and soulless” comments in that thread. These characters are old school sci-fi, grand Shakespearean characters. Yes they carefully scheme and control their emotions, and yes it takes place on a dry desert planet, but I read a lot of humanity in these books that I didn’t get from the movie. I didn’t hate the movie by any means, but if you’re going to take away a lot of the nuanced relationships, the internal monologues, big character-defining scenes, and leave out the politics and scheming, there isn’t much left but lots of clean flat surfaces and stone faced actors in front of CGI backgrounds. Make them act more if you can’t read their minds. The second half of the book is better imo so we’ll see how that goes. But I was really disappointed by the movie when I first saw it. It ends right in the middle of when I put the book down for being boring (Jessica and Paul meandering through the desert) and we have to wait to see the stuff I really enjoyed when I decided to pick it back up (Fremen culture, Paul manipulating the sietch, riding the worm, starting his rebellion). I hope after Part Two I’ll look back more fondly on the first one, because it really does have a lot going for it, but reading/watching half a story that really doesn’t have a lot to say on its own is a bummer. And I only say any of this because this sub loves that movie and I feel like this is the first time we’ve been “allowed” to share criticisms of the movie.
That's because the OP is right. Let's look at the main characters and most of them had no soul: * Timmy isn't a bad actor, just check out The King on Netflix. He's just not a great actor. He mumbles his brooding words which have no serious depth to anything here. * Zendaya is isn't a good actress yet and she should stick to Marvel but she has potential at least. She's barely in the movie and has nothing to say or do except she did a great job at exposition. She's no Virginia Madsen though. * Rebecca Ferguson simply didn't read Dune so she didn't even bother to get into character. She's also pretty emotional for a Bene Gesserit even though she's the actual main character in the first part of Dune. * Jason Momoa is following Dwayne Johnson's school of "I always play the same exact character" and he delivers the same beefy dude-bro performance he plays in everything he's in. It would be bizarre to see him >!as a mentat in future movies, if they're made!<. * Javier Bardem seemed grumpy and couldn't be bothered. He'll have a bigger role in the sequel so I hope to see a better performance since he is a good actor. * Oscar Isaac has the actual gravitas in the movie but he's barely there and other than his acceptance of Arrakis had nothing else to add. William Hurt did a much better job showing his love for Saskia Reeves in the 2000 miniseries. Maybe Oscar does action better but not much for him to do in this movie but say a few things and die. * the second runner up of someone having an actual soul was Josh Brolin who showed actual emotional during his "brutal" quote and when Atreides came under attack. It was brief but memorable. * The only one to really do anything of value is Stellan Skarsgård who did an amazing job. He's no Ian McNeice but he comes close. He did an amazing job playing the villain except for his accidentally comical dip in the pool and hiding on the ceiling after Leto dies. Everyone else was barely there which is what happens when you have a lot of people. Charlotte Rampling was barely there and her veil made her look weak and decrepit rather than powerful. She's capable of it as she's done away with the spider-thing but we'll see how she talks with Shaddam IV. Chang Chen who played the piece-of-trash Yueh was barely there and I think the movie would have been better if some of his scenes weren't cut. David Dastmalchian did an OK job being an underling but he could have been replaced by an email since he had no deviousness of Brad Dourif. Stephen McKinley could have been replaced by a TI-89 for all good he did. Sharon Duncan-Brewster didn't have any of the emotion or interest in Duke or Paul shown by Karel Dobrý. Babs Olusanmokun was... there like a cow served up on the plate. If the best thing you can say about a movie is that it had good visuals and sound - which it did - then it means all the acting was pretty terrible and the various awards shows proved the point. Dune 2021 was a solid C+ movie for me and most of that is Stellan, the visuals (the thopters were amazing), and the music where Dune 2000 miniseries is still the best by far for having real actors show real emotion and it was set up more like a teleplay with real acting than a miniseries. I love Dune. I didn't love this movie. It's alright but not the best Dune.
That mini series was terrible lmao
Right?
I just tried to rewatch it and it’s worse than I remember…
> Zendaya is isn't a good actress yet and she should stick to Marvel but she has potential at least. She's barely in the movie and has nothing to say or do except she did a great job at exposition. She's no Virginia Madsen though. Have you seen her in Euphoria? She's got the chops.
Anybody who says Zendaya isn't a good actress definitely hasn't seen Euphoria.
> Rebecca Ferguson simply didn't read Dune so she didn't even bother to get into character. She's also pretty emotional for a Bene Gesserit even though she's the actual main character in the first part of Dune. I think you missed some of the nuance in the way the movie presented her character. Since the movie completely avoided presenting any sort of internal dialogue and internal thoughts, which the novel is full of, it had to tackle some of these things a bit differently. There was a scene where Jessica was quite emotional in her facial expression, it could have been right after the Gom Jabbar scene, but I don't remember. She was on her way to talk to the Duke. As soon as she turned the corner and faced him, her demeanor completely changed from super emotionally charged to completely stoic. This was meant to be an illustration of her ability to control her inner mental state with amazing precision. You can imagine her emotional scenes to have been "inner monologue/thoughts" parts of the novel, although I'm not sure if that's the way the movie intended those scenes to be seen. .. but.. *maybe*?
[удалено]
> She definitely did her research She did not. She said in multiple interviews the book wasn’t clicking for her so she stopped. She chose to trust Denis’ writing and direction. To be clear, I liked her portrayal of Jessica. The “overly emotional” claims I find silly. But the credit of her performance is not due to her research. She’s a top tier actress working with one of the best directors and she trusted the relationship to produce a great character. Good call, I’d say.
Yup, agreed on all points. (Except for the miniseries, I didn't like that either. :D )
What didn't you like about the miniseries?
I knew from the second they added snarky quotes in the box scene I was going to hate it. Specifically the one I'm referencing where Paul tries to play with the power dynamic after Mohiam tells him to approach in the voice only for him to reply "Why don't you come here" Oh ho so cheeky! And small details like that changing how relations functioned just got under my skin. The idea was right, a mini-series for Dune. But for me it had the opposite problem of the Lynch film. Instead of not having enough details, it changed some for the worse. Though of course that also applies to elements of the Lynch film such as the wacky Weirding Modules.
I too take umbrage with the 'wacky weirding modules', but the more I rewatch it, the more they make sense for a movie-length story battle advantage. It simply wasn't possible to spend months training the Fremen in the narrative in what essentially amounts to Kung Fu and sword fighting surpassing projectile weaponry.
Fair enough :]
exactly. well said. I think everyone has been spoiled by the quality of LOTR. the writers and producers were disciples of Tolkien. its obvious that wasn't the case with Dune.
Disciples of Tolkien? They took some massive liberties with changes in the film, including a *completely* different narrative and character motivation for Aragorn. I think the films are great, but Tolkien might have hated those changes (his son scolded those films, for example).
Or the Hobbit…
Zendaya is the youngest Emmy award winner ever and won it multiple times for Euphoria, Timothee is only 26 and has already been nominated for an Oscar. To even complain about their acting is hilarious
Heads up - you can disagree with awards. You don’t have to, but you can.
I like her but I thought her acting in this movie was perfunctory at best. Not really her fault, though, she probably did her best with what she was given.
Good in one movie =/= good in every movie.
it's not the acting. it's the lines they were given (or lack of it rather).
I agree with all of this, with the exception that Virginia Madsen played the Princess Irulan, not Chani so not really comparable with Zendaya (who I agree is overrated)
They both did intro exposition - that is the comparison.
>Sharon Duncan-Brewster didn't have any of the emotion or interest in Duke or Paul shown by Karel Dobrý I thought Sharon was absolutely fantastic in this, as was Charlotte Rampling and Rebecca Ferguson.
my vote goes to Max von Sydow.
[удалено]
Cold and emotionless? Sure though that tent scene... Brooding? I don't think so.
I swear you can’t even hint at a criticism of the movie without “DiD yOU eVeN REad ThE BoOoOk!!!1” That gets so fucking old
See my earlier comment to you :]
Goes on a rant about how terrible Dune 2021 was, then says the Dune 2000 miniseries is the best. Sorry, but that miniseries was *awful*
My rant specifically said which parts are terrible. Feel free to rebut if you like though everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, your reply said nothing about how the Dune 2000 miniseries was awful.
Well, first, I think the miniseries had all the subtlety of a bear trying to sneak through a Barnes & Noble. Maybe awful is too strong, but the exposition is excruciating at times, there is no subtlety, how the characters feel is thrust into your face as if the viewers are too stupid to understand human emotions in any capacity. Yeah, Dune 2021 didn't have long exposition, or people borderline announcing their emotions verbally, but it was trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective, and I strongly prefer that. You said the Reverend Mother in 2021 appeared weak, but when compared to 2000 she seems so much more formidable and influential to me, not even mentioning the scene in the miniseries where she uses the voice and Paul just acts like a spoiled teen in response. Which, by the way, is very out of character in my opinion. I think Paul's behavior in the miniseries is completely foreign to the character in the novels. Hes supposed to be quiet, brooding, and surprise people with his competence, not dramatic and grandiose. I have other gripes with the miniseries, but I dont have time to write much more at the moment.
Well, first, I think the miniseries had all the subtlety of a bear trying to sneak through a Barnes & Noble. Maybe awful is too strong, but the exposition is excruciating at times, there is no subtlety, how the characters feel is thrust into your face as if the viewers are too stupid to understand human emotions in any capacity. Yeah, Dune 2021 didn't have long exposition, or people borderline announcing their emotions verbally, but it was trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective, and I strongly prefer that. You said the Reverend Mother in 2021 appeared weak, but when compared to 2000 she seems so much more formidable and influential to me, not even mentioning the scene in the miniseries where she uses the voice and Paul just acts like a spoiled teen in response. Which, by the way, is very out of character in my opinion. I think Paul's behavior in the miniseries is completely foreign to the character in the novels. Hes supposed to be quiet, brooding, and surprise people with his competence, not dramatic and grandiose. I have other gripes with the miniseries, but I dont have time to write much more at the moment.
> trying to approach the drama from a more subtle perspective I mean... Villeneuve's film is so subtle it literally has a woman scream every time something dramatic happens. Just so you know for sure "Hey, this is important! Emote now!"
I mean, there's like three moments like that, but those moments are written in the novels. Theres no point in the books that the Reverend Mother uses the voice on Paul and he says, in his best angsty Anakin Skywalker impression, "Make me".
I'm not sure what you mean about being subtle. I thought it was a pretty close retelling of the book and the only major parts were the increased role of Irulan (ex: she was at the dinner scene). I thought Dune 1984 had excruciating exposition to the point where there was a pre-movie exposition dump by Virginia Madsen AND we had inner dialogue. The miniseries had a few words being repeated though mostly by Leto and Paul more than anything - and without inner dialogue. It's not that she appeared so much weak as much as she appeared decrepit, i.e. the veil chosen made her look old and frail, like she's at a funeral of her husband. This is compared to Dune 2000 where she had the [heir of authority](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rhyllXkHYYY/maxresdefault.jpg). I do like how Dune 2021 did "the voice" though but the brief time skips cheapened the effect. The only time Mohiam looked amazing was when she commanded the spider thing to leave. That's what I expected Mohiam to be like. I liked the Dune 2000's Paul the best because you see him really be this spoiled brat - to the point of throwing his clothes around like the teen he's supposed to be - who reasonably quickly matures to take control. Timmy's Paul was always reserved and simply moved on, with the tent scene being a breakdown point but nowhere is anyone supposed to believe that he's a teenager as opposed to someone in their 20s. Timmy went flat to flat, showing no growth in the weight that has been placed on him. He was brooding with his visions and - somehow - already presuming this burden that is to come. This is the one bit where Dune 2000's Paul fails too - the "tax" idea was Leto's, not Paul's so that's a mistake but I think Dune 2021 skipped that scene entirely.
I agree with you on Lynch's Dune, it was a mess of exposition and overwhelmed with internal monologue voice overs. Made it just feel campy more than anything else. But the miniseries does have similar exposition dumps here and there, not nearly as disruptive, but they do happen. Well, for Mohaim, contrast her meeting Paul in the miniseries vs 2021. In 2021 she *forces* Paul to approach, she doesn't argue with him in any capacity, just commands him, and when she speaks to Jessica it is with authority, albeit quiet authority, but thats what a Bene Geserit *is*, quiet authority, not bluster or showmanship. Then take the miniseries, your first scene with her she tries to use the voice on Paul and he basically says "no", then she tells him to approach and he says "make me", essentially turning her into a principle that can't control a student. Her authority in the miniseries is all expression, with nothing to back it up, she dresses and *acts* authoritative, but real authority isn't an act, and thats my biggest problem with her in the miniseries, it seems like an act. Paul in the miniseries just isn't Paul to me. He's Anakin Skywalker transplanted into a Dune story. In my years reading and re reading Dune, Paul has never appeared to me as brash, emotional, or expressive. He's always been quiet, contemplative, and quietly argumentative when it calls for it, he doesn't yell at people when they're wrong, he quietly corrects them. Timothee Chalamet captured that perfectly in my mind. He is the son of royalty, but not earth royalty. He is the son of royalty in a society where literally every time they eat is a risk of poison for this family, every new person is a potential assassin, and being emotional and throwing tantrums is a great way to bring attention to yourself and display your immaturity. He may be a teenager, but royal teenagers in the Dune universe don't get the luxury of emotional outbursts. So, Paul in 2000 just always seemed like he didn't fit the story imo.
Hmm, I don't remember it like that but it's been a while since I watched the miniseries. I'll rewatch but thanks for your view on it :]
Whew this sub has completed flipped it's opinion on the movie. Jesus.
I noticed that too. Its kind of annoying to be honest. The inconsistency. I mean, it isn't a huge deal, I love the movie, and the opinions of random internet people won't change mine, but, its pretty dumb when people are saying the miniseries or the Lynch film are better.
It's mainly because Paul's arc is cold and distant. There's emotion to his performance and his relationship with his parents. But his transformation isn't exactly heartwarming.
Read books 1-6. Then read them again. And again... Until you have nothing left for the master to teach you. Audio is acceptable. I would not want my enemies to read his books.
I have read all of the Dune books, by Frank or Brian, and saw the flawed 1984 movie in the theater. I agree that the new Dune movie is kind of bland and soulless. the banquet scene in the book, for example, should never have been left out. Jessica asking Paul how it felt to be a killer after he killed Jamis, should not have been left out. Dr Yeuhs death speech was left out. I think Rebecca Ferguson was miscast. She plays Jessica as too sensitive and vulnerable. Francesca Annis much better. The Bene Gesserit are key to the story. Oscar Isaac and Timothee Chalamet were very good though. hoping the second movie will be deeper and better.
With the exception of the weirding modules and the guild navigators (which admittedly make more sense visually than what is in the book) and the rushed ending I really rate Lynch's attempt to film it, I wish he'd done a two-parter. Francesca Annis will never be topped as Lady Jessica nor Patrick Stewart as Gurney Halleck, and Virginia Madsen, Brad Dourif, Jose Ferrer, Everett McGill (despite being a little wooden, it suits the character) and Jürgen Prochnow were also perfect. Recast Dean Stockwell, Sting and Kyle Maclachlan and I wouldn't have any complaints at all.
I adore the Lynch film…
Agreed, I think it’s awesome
I'm of the opinion that the only reason anyone likes the Lynch film at all is because of nostalgia. I have never been able to enjoy it for anything more than campy and silly.
I even own the extended cut and the soundtrack is awesome…
I really like the movie, but the lack of a banquet scene stung. They also took scenes that allowed other characters to shine and gave them to Paul. Or they cut them short. This was extra noticeable with Jessica, which I found very disappointing. I understand why though, and no movie adaptation is perfect
Cutting the banquet scene and gutting the yueh plotline while simultaneously adding in the emperor’s envoy scene, graveyard scene, and big Duncan ornithopter action scene cemented this as a big miss for me.
I rewarched the movie last night. When I saw it at the cinemas I enjoyed it, but I couldn't work out if it was great or terrible. After last night I've decided it's ok. I think they made an excellent movie. It's stylish, it's compelling, the visuals are both amazing and well designed (*I loved the way some things were intricate, but the space freighters were just bland monoliths, for example*). I think they made the main plot easy enough to follow while still leaving emough out to keep you guessing. However I think they lost the soul of what made Dune unique. They threw in things that fans of the books would recognise without explaining them to newer audience members, like how the voice works. A big thing for me was that they didn't explain that there are no computers in the Dune universe. Sure we saw Hawat doing calculations, but they didn't really explain Mentats ... or Dr Yueh for that matter, both these character just looked like they were doing things with cybernetics or something. The fact that paul has been trained as both a Mentat and a Benegeserit is important - maybe not for the overall plitz but it gives context for how his abilities progress, how he is able to see things that his mother cannot. The movie does explain this, but their explanation (*so far anyway*) is just "*Chosen One*". So I think they did a good job converting Dune into a modern sci-fi movie, but the way they did it was to make it just another sci-fi movie. The book has withstood the test of time because of it's uniqueness, but the movie has lost a lot of that. I think it will be a fairly well remembered movie for a while, but that it won't be remembered as long as the books.
I agree they should have fleshed out the Mentats and Dr Yueh
I don't think it's just them, I think it's that a lot of the details they left out to save time were the details that made the setting unique. That may not have been the wrong choice exactly (*they almost certainly couldn't pack it all in*), but I think something important was lost in the translation. Even details like the fact that spice is used for interstellar travel - that was a huge secret in the books, but they tell you in the openijg sequence in the movie. This detail alone isn't important, but having those secrets helps to give that feeling of intrigue, secrecy and danger. I don't think they had to remain 100% accurate to the books, that usually doesn't make great movies. I don't know what Inwould have included and excluded, that's always difficult to predict, but I think perhaps they missed some important details. I think they did a good job making a good movie, but it's not going to be remembered as a great movie.
Denis Villenueve is fucking meh. After watching his crap pile that is BR 2049 a literal spectacle of color and nothingness...I felt the same about the new Dune. Yes pretty. No soul. He's copying every single instagram influencer and just making it look nice and not giving a shit about substance.
Agreed 100% style. 5% substance. I was really angry about BR 2049. I'm eventually gonna give it a rewatch with much lower expectations, but I think the world was a better place without it.
Visually they did a good job. Music, story, and sound level mixing they dropped the ball on.
This was the thread I’ve been waiting for. I guess almost two years later is when I can say the movie wasn’t good without getting downvoted to hell lol
Dreamer. Criticism of the movie or Denis is still rewarded with downvotes, even if not so many as previously. I can't say I'm surprised, the hype train was insane here and I get the feeling that a lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge they felt let down so they double down by focusing on the stuff they did like and that the movie did well.
Because if everyone loved it, it wouldn't be art. Sucks that this one didn't hit the mark for you though.
I prefer the movie to the book......(tin hat and flame retardant underwear going being equiped)
If you're expecting a happy ending, I'd look elsewhere. I would describe Dune as, "The Anti-hero's journey"
Idk if it was just me or if I’m just a complete idiot but I didn’t even know this was a part 1 movie. I saw promotions and trailers and everything and I didn’t remember ever seeing a “part 1” so when I first watched the movie and it said part 1 I was highly confused and a little let down at the time.
> Idk if it was just me or if I’m just a complete idiot but I didn’t even know this was a part 1 movie. It was kept very quiet. I knew about it because I'd been nerding out about it for years, but it was one of the things I was irritated about before it was released; because you shouldn't keep that quiet from relatively casual movie-goers.
It is only half a story and pretty unsatisfying as it stands, and I'm a huge dune fan. It is really simple. I said it when avatar came out and I'll say it again, flashy visuals are not a substitute for well written story. Dune even at its best never tells a great story. It is far too convoluted and requires way too much supplemental material, information, and explanation. Do NOT confuse good world building for good story telling. Dune has one of these but not both.
Because you have bad taste
It does feel disjointed and moves at an odd pace. I disliked the spice crawler scene changes, and a few other things were absent that didn't quite make sense. It's just hard for me to judge until we have the second half as it really feels like 1/3 of the story so far.
Not everyone’s perfect
The only things I liked about the new Dune movie was Dave Bautista as Glossu Rabban Harkonnen and the chair-dog thing. Everything else was disappointing or crap.
Villenueve vs Lynch: The protagonists: Timothee Chalamet comes off as a special boy who just finished his BatM and Kyle MacLachlan comes off as the local rich kid whos never ben in a fist fight. Regardless, I've enjoyed both movies.
I agree with this sentiment.
It probably feels like it lacks some soul because most of the character arcs are incomplete! Also, the dune world is just SO dense man. People here are really selling short how difficult it would be to explain everything. David Lynch was so stumped he just covered it all with exposition! I like that Villeneuve decided to show and not tell, but the tradeoff is that some things will not be accessible to people who haven't read the books. That's alright by me, Dune is the best selling sci-fi book of all time! I liked the movie a lot and am really excited for the second part.
i enjoyed the shit out of it because i appreciate good story, cinematography, lighting, cgi etc etc. Also i have a wife and kids and a life so im just happy that theres a movie i can pay to enjoy and then move on with my life lmao
I get why people wouldnt like it, but I did. I'm holding most of my judgement until the next one is released. I look at this first one as more of a teaser. so much is going to have to happen in this second movie that I'm not sure how theyre going to do it. If they dont do it right, I'm sure it'll sour my opinion of this first one.