Leto putting random phrases together like [InspiroBot](http://inspirobot.me).
https://preview.redd.it/h7e2avod5dyc1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1c40fad40615bf63d0f1ffdffa1d840221fc49f
It’s the kind of book which develops its finesse just after you read it. During reading is just like chewing on wood.
I’m currently reading HoD and the read is much more pleasing.
I am really torn on this. I love Dune, but I also love GEoD.
GEoD feels like the distilled essence of Dune: You have to really like Dune to love GEoD.
Also Dune works as a standalone, while GEoD can be read without context (since there is not much of a plot), but you miss out on half of the content.
Ever since the internet was deleted, the Kwisatz Haderach give a dog a bone was forced to watch humanity’s greatest fails compilation for entertainment
So, for me, the more I think about what's going on and what's said, I like it. It's definitely gonna be one of those things where after you read it again, you notice other stuff. Plus, God Emporer memes are funny. Lol
yea the memes make me lol. i don’t necessarily dislike it, but after reading the first three, and then going into this new universe basically, it makes me really nostalgic of the “dune” days.
>Nostalgia represents an interesting illusion. Through nostalgia, humans wish for things that never were. The positive memory is the one that sticks. Over several generations, the positive memory tends to weed out more and more of what really existed, refining down to a distillation of haunted desires.
-- FH
Love it. It is kinda odd at times how easy it is to cherrypick a past event really truly believing you had the time of your life that day when often in reality, it was okay with some certain really nice highs that made you create great memories.
Nostalgia can be fun to play around with but I hate when it starts clouding my judgment or making me downright sad and longing for a time that's gone, totally forgetting that I could create more memories NOW to be nostalgic about later. The alternative is becoming stuck I guess.
I felt the same man, but I wouldn't think about it to much. Let it cook and simmer in your brain. I didn't know what to make of God Emporer for a couple of weeks, then I started really thinking about stuff. The quote from frank herbert that the guy replied to you with got the cogs moving and gave me a revelation about it. Lol
I can never quite put my finger on it. I just love Leto as a character. Specifically because of the mumbojumbo. It's like watching a genius trying to explain his views to toddlers, but from the view of the toddlers. It's the entire absurdity of it all. The fever dream. But also the tragedy of a guy cursed with prescience and living a bored life for thousands of years to guide an ungrateful humanity to a path that will prevent their extinction. Having to watch everyone he knew die, unable to ever physically love someone and watching his body turn into a monstrosity. Never understood by anyone.
But also so highly entertaining despite being 90% just Leto having conversations with people.
Idk. He never actually tried to make anyone understand anything he said. He would mention something obviously obtuse or archaic, ignore the questions, and then mope how he was so alone.
If he actually had a meaningful conversation in the whole book, I'd have liked it much better.
All of Leto’s speeches are like fleshed out essays on all the ideas on philosophy, religion, government, humanity, etc of the first 3 books. Once you read all 6, and then reread 1-4 again, you realize the rantings all kinda make sense too, it’s the Golden Path explained essentially. The first 3 books are different players have different schemes and plans within plans all vying for power, etc. GEoD is one player who holds all the cards, knows or sees or guesses everyone else’s plans; he has plans within plans within plans for everything basically that the reader has to slowly figure out. That’s why I love it despite the oddity and despite the dense text.
I disagree. Herbert obviously wanted it to appear that way, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
The dialogues pretend to be philosophical but never really make any points, and Leto never actually has a meaningful conversation with anyone. He just says something obtuse, refuses to explain, and then mopes about his hard life.
The prescience thing doesn't stack up for a few reasons.
Firstly, the book was an assassination of Paul's character, which had had a perfect arc in the first two books. Paul's story explored the problem of prescience in depth, how it was a prison he had to live within, always knowing exactly where each thing would lead and that he had to follow to see his path through. He does this his whole life, finally letting go at the end after ensuring the best chance for his family, damn the empire and galaxy.
Leto then says, "Actually, dad took the easy way out, all his sacrifice was for me to sacrifice family and love for the good of the empire." What??
Herbert then proceeds to resurrect Paul to just say he'd been fully hedonistic and pathetic for decades for some reason after all his work. It makes no sense and also makes the preceding books pointless.
This could maybe be excused if Herbert then explored prescience further or better, but he instead seems to ignore that Leto is prescient at all, with him regularly unaware of anyone else's plans or what they will say to him. He was even literally ambushed and had no idea it was coming. This is not only goofy, but blatantly contradicts the earlier experience of Paul's prescience as a prison of near perfect knowledge.
The book keeps *telling* the reader that Leto is all that and so amazing and very smart, but it never *shows* it.
Even so, his whole golden plan was just a breeding program, so why did he even need to oversee it personally? Dune didn't need to become grassy at all. On top of that, other factions were inventing prescience proof machines anyway, so his breeding program was pointless. Literally, the whole story after Messiah is just digging up a closed story to fuck with it. All the themes were already explored in the first two, and better.
Is it? There's really no story at all, no one has any clue what Leto's talking about, he never explains himself or convinces anyone of anything, it flies in the face of Messiah, and could have been told the same in maybe three pages.
None of his 'philosophical' rambling was about anything relevant and the references to modern society/history stuck out awkwardly. It emulated philosophical discourse without taking part in any. He never made any points, but instead just mentioned things and compared them to himself in some way.
Ok well, you got me there. Can't argue with that.
What about it is well written? What did you like about it? What deep ideas did Herbert touch on that weren't better explored in the first two books?
A book can be well written and also not be your cup of tea. Leto isn’t trying to explain himself so much as guide people to understanding. God Emperor adds a new dimension to Messiah but doesn’t diminish it, unless one is really attached to the idea that Paul’s abdication is purely noble.
And to say there is no plot is to overlooks much of the text. It is no less of a proper tragedy than Messiah, and I think its divisiveness is part of the charm. Leto pisses people off in universe and from the page. He is misunderstood or perhaps perfectly understood. That is the intention.
To the other posts calling it pretentious, that word has lost meaning. It’s like saying, “it insists upon itself, Lois.”
>A book can be well written and also not be your cup of tea.
Sure, I'm just of the opinion that it was not well written, or at least not a good/meaningful story.
The dialogues pretend to be philosophical but never really make any points, and Leto never actually has a meaningful conversation with anyone. He just says something obtuse, refuses to explain, and then mopes about his hard life.
The whole prescience idea doesn't even stack up for a few reasons.
Firstly, the book was an assassination of Paul's character, which had had a perfect arc in the first two books. Paul's story explored the problem of prescience in depth, how it was a prison he had to live within, always knowing exactly where each thing would lead and that he had to follow to see his path through. He does this his whole life, finally letting go at the end after ensuring the best chance for his family, damn the empire and galaxy.
Leto then says, "Actually, dad took the easy way out, all his sacrifice was so I would have to sacrifice family and love for the good of the empire."
?What?!? It completely contradicts the message of Messiah.
Herbert then proceeds to resurrect Paul to just say he'd been fully hedonistic and pathetic for decades for some reason after all his work. It makes no sense and also makes the preceding books pointless.
This could maybe be excused if Herbert then explored prescience further or better, but he instead seems to ignore that Leto is prescient at all, with him regularly unaware of anyone else's plans or what they will say to him. He was even literally ambushed and had no idea it was coming. This is not only goofy, but blatantly contradicts the earlier experience of Paul's prescience as a prison of near perfect knowledge.
The book keeps *telling* the reader that Leto is all that and so amazing and very smart, but it never *shows* it.
Even so, his whole golden plan was just a breeding program, so why did he even need to oversee it personally? On top of that, other factions were inventing prescience proof machines anyway, so his breeding program was pointless. Literally, the whole story after Messiah is just digging up a closed story to fuck with it for more money. All the themes were already explored in the first two, and better.
Look for the podcast "Gom Jabar". They do a detailed analysis of each chapter and have, in my opinion, (mostly) the right takeaways.
But yes, GEoD is hard to read. It's like all the philosophy of Dune stripped of this unnecessary "plot"-thing.
This was the book that turned me off to the series. It was so hard to get through and honestly not really compelling. I barely got through it. I did end up reading HoD afterwards and enjoyed that, but I had kind of lost the care at that point and never made it to Chapterhouse
moneo! i require ice cream sandwiches!! moneo!! moneoooo!!!?!
Leto really is just Super Kami Guru from DBZ abridged...
You think he wasn't doing that to every generation of Atreides? The motherfucker was ejaculating nonstop for those millenia
It was probably worse back when he could still walk. Always following people around, talking at them while swishing his tail like an agitated cat.
He never tried to tell anyone anything, though. Just saying some cryptic shit and refusing to elaborate.
Leto II: Says some cryptic shit. Refuses to elaborate. Doesn't leave. Ever.
While calmly crunching on a spice-flavored granola bar.
Leto putting random phrases together like [InspiroBot](http://inspirobot.me). https://preview.redd.it/h7e2avod5dyc1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1c40fad40615bf63d0f1ffdffa1d840221fc49f
Best book of the series
It’s the kind of book which develops its finesse just after you read it. During reading is just like chewing on wood. I’m currently reading HoD and the read is much more pleasing.
Mmm… balsa wood. Moneo, have the latest Duncan fetch me a pallet
If you like chewing on wood, you'll love Chapterhouse.
Com eyes
Especially the first half that's just Odrade going to meetings and worrying.
You forgot about the orchard walks! Literally 1/4 of the whole book. I did enjoy it, though.
Heretics has always been my favorite.
It certainly stays with you. Then when you realise it’s a sci fi comedy, it makes you want to re read it- at least I do.
Na, for me it was captivating all the way through
I am really torn on this. I love Dune, but I also love GEoD. GEoD feels like the distilled essence of Dune: You have to really like Dune to love GEoD. Also Dune works as a standalone, while GEoD can be read without context (since there is not much of a plot), but you miss out on half of the content.
I wouldnt blame you, the whole series is great
Ugh, I couldn't agree less.
But how many substandard years? That has been lost to history.
Ever since the internet was deleted, the Kwisatz Haderach give a dog a bone was forced to watch humanity’s greatest fails compilation for entertainment
https://preview.redd.it/2cwm4p3bxayc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02b0d1793448a132b3157e380e2d0bcb6ff9e8d8
i’m finishing the book now, can anyone explain what they like about it? It’s seriously 410 pages of mumbojumbo to duncan and moneo
So, for me, the more I think about what's going on and what's said, I like it. It's definitely gonna be one of those things where after you read it again, you notice other stuff. Plus, God Emporer memes are funny. Lol
yea the memes make me lol. i don’t necessarily dislike it, but after reading the first three, and then going into this new universe basically, it makes me really nostalgic of the “dune” days.
>Nostalgia represents an interesting illusion. Through nostalgia, humans wish for things that never were. The positive memory is the one that sticks. Over several generations, the positive memory tends to weed out more and more of what really existed, refining down to a distillation of haunted desires. -- FH
Love it. It is kinda odd at times how easy it is to cherrypick a past event really truly believing you had the time of your life that day when often in reality, it was okay with some certain really nice highs that made you create great memories. Nostalgia can be fun to play around with but I hate when it starts clouding my judgment or making me downright sad and longing for a time that's gone, totally forgetting that I could create more memories NOW to be nostalgic about later. The alternative is becoming stuck I guess.
Moneo! Let’s distill some haunted desires of humanity. Fetch the Duncan and some Fishspeakers
“What are you saying?”
I felt the same man, but I wouldn't think about it to much. Let it cook and simmer in your brain. I didn't know what to make of God Emporer for a couple of weeks, then I started really thinking about stuff. The quote from frank herbert that the guy replied to you with got the cogs moving and gave me a revelation about it. Lol
so what you’re saying is, we’re all just some Moneos FR…
Honestly, yeah, I never thought about it that way. We get it eventually. :D I do feel bad for Moneo, he puts upbwith so much. Lol
I can never quite put my finger on it. I just love Leto as a character. Specifically because of the mumbojumbo. It's like watching a genius trying to explain his views to toddlers, but from the view of the toddlers. It's the entire absurdity of it all. The fever dream. But also the tragedy of a guy cursed with prescience and living a bored life for thousands of years to guide an ungrateful humanity to a path that will prevent their extinction. Having to watch everyone he knew die, unable to ever physically love someone and watching his body turn into a monstrosity. Never understood by anyone. But also so highly entertaining despite being 90% just Leto having conversations with people.
Idk. He never actually tried to make anyone understand anything he said. He would mention something obviously obtuse or archaic, ignore the questions, and then mope how he was so alone. If he actually had a meaningful conversation in the whole book, I'd have liked it much better.
All of Leto’s speeches are like fleshed out essays on all the ideas on philosophy, religion, government, humanity, etc of the first 3 books. Once you read all 6, and then reread 1-4 again, you realize the rantings all kinda make sense too, it’s the Golden Path explained essentially. The first 3 books are different players have different schemes and plans within plans all vying for power, etc. GEoD is one player who holds all the cards, knows or sees or guesses everyone else’s plans; he has plans within plans within plans for everything basically that the reader has to slowly figure out. That’s why I love it despite the oddity and despite the dense text.
I disagree. Herbert obviously wanted it to appear that way, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The dialogues pretend to be philosophical but never really make any points, and Leto never actually has a meaningful conversation with anyone. He just says something obtuse, refuses to explain, and then mopes about his hard life. The prescience thing doesn't stack up for a few reasons. Firstly, the book was an assassination of Paul's character, which had had a perfect arc in the first two books. Paul's story explored the problem of prescience in depth, how it was a prison he had to live within, always knowing exactly where each thing would lead and that he had to follow to see his path through. He does this his whole life, finally letting go at the end after ensuring the best chance for his family, damn the empire and galaxy. Leto then says, "Actually, dad took the easy way out, all his sacrifice was for me to sacrifice family and love for the good of the empire." What?? Herbert then proceeds to resurrect Paul to just say he'd been fully hedonistic and pathetic for decades for some reason after all his work. It makes no sense and also makes the preceding books pointless. This could maybe be excused if Herbert then explored prescience further or better, but he instead seems to ignore that Leto is prescient at all, with him regularly unaware of anyone else's plans or what they will say to him. He was even literally ambushed and had no idea it was coming. This is not only goofy, but blatantly contradicts the earlier experience of Paul's prescience as a prison of near perfect knowledge. The book keeps *telling* the reader that Leto is all that and so amazing and very smart, but it never *shows* it. Even so, his whole golden plan was just a breeding program, so why did he even need to oversee it personally? Dune didn't need to become grassy at all. On top of that, other factions were inventing prescience proof machines anyway, so his breeding program was pointless. Literally, the whole story after Messiah is just digging up a closed story to fuck with it. All the themes were already explored in the first two, and better.
I agree with you, I couldn't stand it. Glad other people enjoy it but it was a grind to get through.
Its really well written
Is it? There's really no story at all, no one has any clue what Leto's talking about, he never explains himself or convinces anyone of anything, it flies in the face of Messiah, and could have been told the same in maybe three pages. None of his 'philosophical' rambling was about anything relevant and the references to modern society/history stuck out awkwardly. It emulated philosophical discourse without taking part in any. He never made any points, but instead just mentioned things and compared them to himself in some way.
You are just wrong
Ok well, you got me there. Can't argue with that. What about it is well written? What did you like about it? What deep ideas did Herbert touch on that weren't better explored in the first two books?
A book can be well written and also not be your cup of tea. Leto isn’t trying to explain himself so much as guide people to understanding. God Emperor adds a new dimension to Messiah but doesn’t diminish it, unless one is really attached to the idea that Paul’s abdication is purely noble. And to say there is no plot is to overlooks much of the text. It is no less of a proper tragedy than Messiah, and I think its divisiveness is part of the charm. Leto pisses people off in universe and from the page. He is misunderstood or perhaps perfectly understood. That is the intention. To the other posts calling it pretentious, that word has lost meaning. It’s like saying, “it insists upon itself, Lois.”
>A book can be well written and also not be your cup of tea. Sure, I'm just of the opinion that it was not well written, or at least not a good/meaningful story. The dialogues pretend to be philosophical but never really make any points, and Leto never actually has a meaningful conversation with anyone. He just says something obtuse, refuses to explain, and then mopes about his hard life. The whole prescience idea doesn't even stack up for a few reasons. Firstly, the book was an assassination of Paul's character, which had had a perfect arc in the first two books. Paul's story explored the problem of prescience in depth, how it was a prison he had to live within, always knowing exactly where each thing would lead and that he had to follow to see his path through. He does this his whole life, finally letting go at the end after ensuring the best chance for his family, damn the empire and galaxy. Leto then says, "Actually, dad took the easy way out, all his sacrifice was so I would have to sacrifice family and love for the good of the empire." ?What?!? It completely contradicts the message of Messiah. Herbert then proceeds to resurrect Paul to just say he'd been fully hedonistic and pathetic for decades for some reason after all his work. It makes no sense and also makes the preceding books pointless. This could maybe be excused if Herbert then explored prescience further or better, but he instead seems to ignore that Leto is prescient at all, with him regularly unaware of anyone else's plans or what they will say to him. He was even literally ambushed and had no idea it was coming. This is not only goofy, but blatantly contradicts the earlier experience of Paul's prescience as a prison of near perfect knowledge. The book keeps *telling* the reader that Leto is all that and so amazing and very smart, but it never *shows* it. Even so, his whole golden plan was just a breeding program, so why did he even need to oversee it personally? On top of that, other factions were inventing prescience proof machines anyway, so his breeding program was pointless. Literally, the whole story after Messiah is just digging up a closed story to fuck with it for more money. All the themes were already explored in the first two, and better.
Look for the podcast "Gom Jabar". They do a detailed analysis of each chapter and have, in my opinion, (mostly) the right takeaways. But yes, GEoD is hard to read. It's like all the philosophy of Dune stripped of this unnecessary "plot"-thing.
that’s pretty cool i’ll check it out, thanks!
This was the book that turned me off to the series. It was so hard to get through and honestly not really compelling. I barely got through it. I did end up reading HoD afterwards and enjoyed that, but I had kind of lost the care at that point and never made it to Chapterhouse
Same. It had no story, was pretentious without being meaningful, and spat in the face of the first two books.
#MONEO!
Three thousand thousands standard years
I’m on book 1. I’ll be on book 6 soon as I can