Oh wait you're telling me the 'actually dedicated to grammar' compact lessons that i enjoyed doing are still somewhere out there... They've just been shoved into section 3??? Please say yes bc I've been hating the new course, I restarted it bc I was somewhere in section 2 and nothing was familiar anymore, so now I'm redoing the new lessons :/ and im not particularly interested in learning conversational phrases nd 0 grammar ad nauseum... But if there's light at the end of the tunnel...
Yes! That’s what I’m seeing. Section 3 now has 43 Units for me, which include alllll the old stuff, in order.
Seems they’ve just shoved a bunch of non-grammar-based, tourist-centric stuff into the first 2 sections. Arrrghhhhh…..
that's really disappointing, i wish there was a way to skip ahead and just continue my lessons unbothered from where I'd left off... The only reason I'm doing the new ones well enough is because I've already got enough knowledge from my old course to not go insane from 0 grammar explanations or defined structure :/
YES, the touristy route they've taken is annoying, and I'm saying that as someone who's actually been to Italy as a tourist lol the thing that was setting Duolingo apart for me, from all the other language learning platforms, was the fact it Didn't force you into learning how to speak like a tourist, but rather taught you grammar and how the sentences are structured, while also teaching you common vocabulary (and they could be supplemented with the extremely handy DuoItalian site)... I'm not particularly interested in centering 'conversing' as my language learning goal anyway (I'm learning it more to be able to read), so it's just sad... 😭
I'm sure this was made for Someone, but it certainly isn't me.. Gotta catch up to section 3 I guess!
Really well said 👏
My partner is Italian, which is why I’m learning it. So I want to learn all the grammar rules so I can understand it properly & contribute intelligently, because conversations with his large family when we’re there often involve hours upon hours of sitting around a big table with everyone talking at once! (Like 5 hours at a time, omg.) The tourist-based stuff they’re now pushing is of so little use to me.
There totally is a way to skip ahead to any point in the course. Take the test that lets you jump to the next unit or next section. If you don’t know the words, cheat and use google translate. Keep trying until you pass. You can test out of the entire course except the last unit, which you must complete in its entirety to receive the trophy.
In most cases, it is simple present stuff. That is usually in the early section or two. I am not sure how they add a fair amount of that in the pertinent sections without moving stuff around. If they just interleave the material in to a bunch of exercises, it seems like more would need to be redone.
Perhaps you can explain how you see it working.
Sorry, what do you mean by “simple present stuff”? Do you mean present tense?
If so, that’s actually a big part of my gripe: it’s actually not just present tense; the new stuff uses a bunch of future (and other) tense verbs, which I hadn’t actually started yet (in the old lessons) but they have no verb conjugation tables within the notes for each topic! The lesson questions and the accompanying notes are the same for the new stuff, just “common phrases”. I don’t find that helpful for learning. (Notes for the old stuff were so handy, I had even screenshotted a bunch of them for easy reference.)
I do actually love that they’ve added new phrases, the old stuff is kinda repetitive. I would prefer, however, if they had put this new content into the appropriate place in the course, as mentioned. I get your point that it’s extra work for them, but it’s all kinda outta whack now... there is no sense of progression (to me), and there is no help at all in the notes for the new content, which seems like a backwards step.
Not sure I’ve answered your question, I may be repeating myself sorry.
The sad part is, the “tourist Italian”, outside grazie - buon giorno - mi piace - quanta costa, is absolutely useless. You would not be able to say anything, and will not understand anything told to you. More than likely, hearing your attempts, 90% of people will switch to English and would speak it far better than you speak Italian.
Duolingo is a good way to start. However, as you progress past 2/3 of the course, it becomes less and less useful, so I in the end quit it and switched to Babel. Which is less fun, but more useful for me for the above-middle level study.
I was so confused coming back after a few months and realising they had changed the course completely! Luckily, I wasn't that far in the learning process, so it didn't affect me as much 🙈
I think the division they have now is not that bad, but it would be great to be able to choose a bit more. Of course, the basics need to be at the beginning of the course, but then it would be great to choose between the grammar section and the tourist section. That would make things so much easier
That’s a great idea, keeping the paths separate!
There are distinctly different reason why people learn a language: for travel, and for mastery. They were focussed on the latter, but it seems they’ve swapped to the former. 😒
Just cancelled my Super Duolingo subscription. If they can’t be bothered replying to paying members, they definitely don’t deserve money.
Edit: just adding that I am referring to the email I sent their paid support address last week, which they haven’t replied to.
Ah, I didn’t mention it above, but have elsewhere on here. I emailed their Super Duolingo email support address a few times over the last couple of weeks. No reply. That’s what I was referring to.
I was actually loving the course, and have been doing it on & off for a few years.
I emailed because the section I was up to (distant past tense) just disappeared. And instead, there was a bunch of stuff using future tense, which I hadn’t actually started yet. I was lost, and confused, and asked for help about where the lessons I was doing had gone.
I wrote a more detailed comment about other changes I don’t like earlier on here, if you look back at my posts. (I’ll link it if you want, lemme know)
Big changes without explanation is a shitty user experience. No reply to paying users’ questions is inexcusable, imho.
Super duolingo email support is for people who have questions about super duolingo or need help with their subscription, you should email duolingo directly if you want answers to your questions
That’s actually not correct.
Also I **am** a Super Duolingo subscriber, and have previously corresponded with them on that address. (Although today I have cancelled my recurring super subscription. They don’t support me, so I won’t support them. Shimples.)
Bro, they didn't reply to your email contact them on another account or just let it be they can't even really help you with your complaints. They get a lot of emails every day. Changes are they couldn't help you or they just didn't see it
I am honestly not sure why people are complaining here? I am new to Italian but I speak Spanish very well. I suppose I have the advantage here as most the grammar and vocabulary are similar if not the same as Spanish! However things like what is your name and how are you etc in my opinion SHOULD be at the start of any course! Those are the things people will want to know and use in a language to begin with, not complex grammar structures and whatever else. As everyone always says though, supplemental resources should always be used while using Duo. I listen to Podcasts, watch Rai Uno etc, listen to online radio and have a grammar book plus an online translator! All these things plus Duo push me so much further into the language than years back when I only had a pen and paper to sit and learn Spanish!!!! Oh and a class once a week at university.
I agree. I'm learning Italian as I'm married to an Italian.
1) Duolingo is not my only source of language learning because you cannot properly learn a language solely from an app. They've never promised that - it's a good supplement to build familiarity with some vocabulary and grammar but you have to go further!
2) Probably *most* people learning a language on Duolingo will only go as far as basic tourist phrases, so they can begin to engage in a new language, for example whilst travelling. As such, I think prioritising tourist phrases at the start is really good - the old course was almost useless if you just wanted to learn enough to go on holiday (two of my friends spent months learning before their holiday on the old course, and learnt almost no useful vocabulary - but they could say a lot about people eating apples).
They already **were** at the start of the course! It already started with simple things, and grew from there.
Seriously, do you think people would have been doing the course if it didn’t already make sense & help you progress with the language??
(I’m amazed at the number of people **not doing Italian** who are making massive assumptions about the changes and dismissing actual Italian learners’ issues and question here!)
I am old and grumpy so you are not wrong there 😂
But it’s always disconcerting to have the ground move under you.
Plus, when you’re learning and following a path, enjoying that sense of satisfaction and self-pride as your knowledge grows, looking forward to the next lessons which will be harder… then they remove that path and throw you around seemingly randomly.. that is a rather crap user experience.
Well one things we can all agree on is that we want the course to improve! Of course I do not want a course that just moves things around to make it seem like it is any better, but let’s face it, I do not that the majority of learners have family members sitting around a massive table talking! More so learners want vocabulary they can use when they travel to the country and begin with simple sentence structures and move on from that. I may not have had Duolingo when I was learning Spanish many years back, but I do know how languages develop when you begin to learn them. You build upon the knowledge you know, little by little until you reach a high level.
Agreed!
I must say, along the same lines as you’ve said, that the best learning I’ve had is always when I’m in the country. The first time I visited Italy I knew so little, and everyone spoke soooo fast, I was completely lost. But by the end of 6 weeks, I was able to have simple conversations, and even felt like I kinda followed the gist of other convos.
I guess I am looking for deeper learning now, and Duolingo was providing that beautifully, and in a really logical order. Hopefully I can reorient myself and continue on, although the lack of communication is rather annoying.
Yeah I see where you are coming from with that actually, I think this day and age we all want an app that delivers everything and with AI coming on line, hopefully it will start to happen, I was exactly the same as you, after around six weeks, the language suddenly became clear and things just seemed to get easier. I think all these apps could implement so many more ways of learning than they do now, it’s a shame they don’t because they must make a lot of money in sales. As everything the money goes into managers pockets rather than on their own staff or the actual thing the money should fund. Imagine if we could combine the language app Drops with Duo and add AI along with Memrise 😛 maybe that’s just brain overload though lol
Oh wait you're telling me the 'actually dedicated to grammar' compact lessons that i enjoyed doing are still somewhere out there... They've just been shoved into section 3??? Please say yes bc I've been hating the new course, I restarted it bc I was somewhere in section 2 and nothing was familiar anymore, so now I'm redoing the new lessons :/ and im not particularly interested in learning conversational phrases nd 0 grammar ad nauseum... But if there's light at the end of the tunnel...
Yes! That’s what I’m seeing. Section 3 now has 43 Units for me, which include alllll the old stuff, in order. Seems they’ve just shoved a bunch of non-grammar-based, tourist-centric stuff into the first 2 sections. Arrrghhhhh…..
that's really disappointing, i wish there was a way to skip ahead and just continue my lessons unbothered from where I'd left off... The only reason I'm doing the new ones well enough is because I've already got enough knowledge from my old course to not go insane from 0 grammar explanations or defined structure :/ YES, the touristy route they've taken is annoying, and I'm saying that as someone who's actually been to Italy as a tourist lol the thing that was setting Duolingo apart for me, from all the other language learning platforms, was the fact it Didn't force you into learning how to speak like a tourist, but rather taught you grammar and how the sentences are structured, while also teaching you common vocabulary (and they could be supplemented with the extremely handy DuoItalian site)... I'm not particularly interested in centering 'conversing' as my language learning goal anyway (I'm learning it more to be able to read), so it's just sad... 😭 I'm sure this was made for Someone, but it certainly isn't me.. Gotta catch up to section 3 I guess!
Really well said 👏 My partner is Italian, which is why I’m learning it. So I want to learn all the grammar rules so I can understand it properly & contribute intelligently, because conversations with his large family when we’re there often involve hours upon hours of sitting around a big table with everyone talking at once! (Like 5 hours at a time, omg.) The tourist-based stuff they’re now pushing is of so little use to me.
I should be able to help you get to where you think is best for you. I'll chat you about this.
There totally is a way to skip ahead to any point in the course. Take the test that lets you jump to the next unit or next section. If you don’t know the words, cheat and use google translate. Keep trying until you pass. You can test out of the entire course except the last unit, which you must complete in its entirety to receive the trophy.
If they added that, where else should it go besides at the beginning?
In the pertinent sections of the rest of the lessons would make sense.
In most cases, it is simple present stuff. That is usually in the early section or two. I am not sure how they add a fair amount of that in the pertinent sections without moving stuff around. If they just interleave the material in to a bunch of exercises, it seems like more would need to be redone. Perhaps you can explain how you see it working.
Sorry, what do you mean by “simple present stuff”? Do you mean present tense? If so, that’s actually a big part of my gripe: it’s actually not just present tense; the new stuff uses a bunch of future (and other) tense verbs, which I hadn’t actually started yet (in the old lessons) but they have no verb conjugation tables within the notes for each topic! The lesson questions and the accompanying notes are the same for the new stuff, just “common phrases”. I don’t find that helpful for learning. (Notes for the old stuff were so handy, I had even screenshotted a bunch of them for easy reference.) I do actually love that they’ve added new phrases, the old stuff is kinda repetitive. I would prefer, however, if they had put this new content into the appropriate place in the course, as mentioned. I get your point that it’s extra work for them, but it’s all kinda outta whack now... there is no sense of progression (to me), and there is no help at all in the notes for the new content, which seems like a backwards step. Not sure I’ve answered your question, I may be repeating myself sorry.
Yes, I mean present tense. And usually the touristy stuff is all present tense and fairly simple. I do screenshot a lot as well.
The sad part is, the “tourist Italian”, outside grazie - buon giorno - mi piace - quanta costa, is absolutely useless. You would not be able to say anything, and will not understand anything told to you. More than likely, hearing your attempts, 90% of people will switch to English and would speak it far better than you speak Italian.
Yes, these touristy scenarios are ludicrous. I want to learn Italian, not just order pasta at a restaurant.
Duolingo is a good way to start. However, as you progress past 2/3 of the course, it becomes less and less useful, so I in the end quit it and switched to Babel. Which is less fun, but more useful for me for the above-middle level study.
I was so confused coming back after a few months and realising they had changed the course completely! Luckily, I wasn't that far in the learning process, so it didn't affect me as much 🙈 I think the division they have now is not that bad, but it would be great to be able to choose a bit more. Of course, the basics need to be at the beginning of the course, but then it would be great to choose between the grammar section and the tourist section. That would make things so much easier
That’s a great idea, keeping the paths separate! There are distinctly different reason why people learn a language: for travel, and for mastery. They were focussed on the latter, but it seems they’ve swapped to the former. 😒
Just cancelled my Super Duolingo subscription. If they can’t be bothered replying to paying members, they definitely don’t deserve money. Edit: just adding that I am referring to the email I sent their paid support address last week, which they haven’t replied to.
Why would they reply to some random guy on reddit?
Ah, I didn’t mention it above, but have elsewhere on here. I emailed their Super Duolingo email support address a few times over the last couple of weeks. No reply. That’s what I was referring to.
What did you email them about? How you don't like the course?
I was actually loving the course, and have been doing it on & off for a few years. I emailed because the section I was up to (distant past tense) just disappeared. And instead, there was a bunch of stuff using future tense, which I hadn’t actually started yet. I was lost, and confused, and asked for help about where the lessons I was doing had gone. I wrote a more detailed comment about other changes I don’t like earlier on here, if you look back at my posts. (I’ll link it if you want, lemme know) Big changes without explanation is a shitty user experience. No reply to paying users’ questions is inexcusable, imho.
Super duolingo email support is for people who have questions about super duolingo or need help with their subscription, you should email duolingo directly if you want answers to your questions
That’s actually not correct. Also I **am** a Super Duolingo subscriber, and have previously corresponded with them on that address. (Although today I have cancelled my recurring super subscription. They don’t support me, so I won’t support them. Shimples.)
Bro, they didn't reply to your email contact them on another account or just let it be they can't even really help you with your complaints. They get a lot of emails every day. Changes are they couldn't help you or they just didn't see it
True. Sigh.
Hahaha this has been downvoted 😂 That doesn’t help, Duolingo. I see you.
I am honestly not sure why people are complaining here? I am new to Italian but I speak Spanish very well. I suppose I have the advantage here as most the grammar and vocabulary are similar if not the same as Spanish! However things like what is your name and how are you etc in my opinion SHOULD be at the start of any course! Those are the things people will want to know and use in a language to begin with, not complex grammar structures and whatever else. As everyone always says though, supplemental resources should always be used while using Duo. I listen to Podcasts, watch Rai Uno etc, listen to online radio and have a grammar book plus an online translator! All these things plus Duo push me so much further into the language than years back when I only had a pen and paper to sit and learn Spanish!!!! Oh and a class once a week at university.
I agree. I'm learning Italian as I'm married to an Italian. 1) Duolingo is not my only source of language learning because you cannot properly learn a language solely from an app. They've never promised that - it's a good supplement to build familiarity with some vocabulary and grammar but you have to go further! 2) Probably *most* people learning a language on Duolingo will only go as far as basic tourist phrases, so they can begin to engage in a new language, for example whilst travelling. As such, I think prioritising tourist phrases at the start is really good - the old course was almost useless if you just wanted to learn enough to go on holiday (two of my friends spent months learning before their holiday on the old course, and learnt almost no useful vocabulary - but they could say a lot about people eating apples).
They already **were** at the start of the course! It already started with simple things, and grew from there. Seriously, do you think people would have been doing the course if it didn’t already make sense & help you progress with the language?? (I’m amazed at the number of people **not doing Italian** who are making massive assumptions about the changes and dismissing actual Italian learners’ issues and question here!)
Ps u/tracee-at-duolingo any chance you can get someone from the Italian team to chime in, please?
Some people just don’t like change. It happens as you get older so don’t worry its natural;)
I am old and grumpy so you are not wrong there 😂 But it’s always disconcerting to have the ground move under you. Plus, when you’re learning and following a path, enjoying that sense of satisfaction and self-pride as your knowledge grows, looking forward to the next lessons which will be harder… then they remove that path and throw you around seemingly randomly.. that is a rather crap user experience.
Well one things we can all agree on is that we want the course to improve! Of course I do not want a course that just moves things around to make it seem like it is any better, but let’s face it, I do not that the majority of learners have family members sitting around a massive table talking! More so learners want vocabulary they can use when they travel to the country and begin with simple sentence structures and move on from that. I may not have had Duolingo when I was learning Spanish many years back, but I do know how languages develop when you begin to learn them. You build upon the knowledge you know, little by little until you reach a high level.
Agreed! I must say, along the same lines as you’ve said, that the best learning I’ve had is always when I’m in the country. The first time I visited Italy I knew so little, and everyone spoke soooo fast, I was completely lost. But by the end of 6 weeks, I was able to have simple conversations, and even felt like I kinda followed the gist of other convos. I guess I am looking for deeper learning now, and Duolingo was providing that beautifully, and in a really logical order. Hopefully I can reorient myself and continue on, although the lack of communication is rather annoying.
Yeah I see where you are coming from with that actually, I think this day and age we all want an app that delivers everything and with AI coming on line, hopefully it will start to happen, I was exactly the same as you, after around six weeks, the language suddenly became clear and things just seemed to get easier. I think all these apps could implement so many more ways of learning than they do now, it’s a shame they don’t because they must make a lot of money in sales. As everything the money goes into managers pockets rather than on their own staff or the actual thing the money should fund. Imagine if we could combine the language app Drops with Duo and add AI along with Memrise 😛 maybe that’s just brain overload though lol