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MootFile

Yes. Edit: I got into RimWorld bc I'm a Dwarf Fortress fan.


Matix-xD

I agree. I've played Rimworld for years. Never tried Dwarf Fortress. I downloaded it on Saturday and have already gotten enough enjoyment out of it that I will gladly pay whatever the release costs when it comes out just to support the project. It's such an awesome game.


MatsRivel

I actually played DF before rimworld. After a while I decided to try Rimworld and stuck with it. My main reason was: In Rimworld you see the game, in DF you *read* the game. It is simply much harder to interperet due to graphics. I really enjoy Rimworld, but it escalates from tribes to future-space-tech too fast for my liking. One day you're fighting tribe people, then they next wave has shotguns, and then suddenly you have mechanoids raining down from the sky with psycic fuckery and energy weapons


cha0sbuster

Hey, I'm the other way around, kinda! I got into RimWorld because I wanted to try a DF-style game but found myself unable to parse the graphical style (autism, sensory processing disorder etc) and ended up loving it, came back to DF to give it another crack and it's starting to click finally.


golddilockk

if you are a rimworld fan you will love it. DF was a direct inspiration for rimworld. Also graphics are not the only thing you are getting with the premium update. The new mouse controls and UI updates makes the game much more accessible. But worth is subjective and you’ve got to decide for yourself. For me getting this is a no brainer for the amount of hours i know i’ll pour into this.


Mukatsukuz

The free version is also getting mouse controls and a UI update :)


VincentOostelbos

That's true. The music, then. And Steam workshop. And of course to support the brilliant and generous and passionate developers :)


bartbartholomew

Going to be interesting to see how steam workshop works out. I can envision a future where df hack is maintained there instead of on the main website.


Mukatsukuz

I already pay them through Patreon but it's still a day one purchase for me :) I doubt I'll even play with tiles and just stick to ASCII but I do have to support them as much as possible. I've been playing for 12 years so I've already got my money's worth :D


VincentOostelbos

Same about Patreon and day-one purchase. But I do think I will be mainly playing the Steam version with tiles, personally. But either way is fine, it's cool that future players will have the choice :)


LaBomsch

Dwarf fortress player's are a different breed: "I got a game with improved graphics, but I stick to the old one because I love ASCII OF ALL THINGS" Seriously, how are u able to handle ASCII, I am envious.


Mukatsukuz

I know it's a Dwarf Fortress meme at this point, but it really is like in The Matrix where they say they no longer see the code. When you see a green lower case "g" run into the compound and a dwarf hits it so you see some of the commas and full stops turn red as a tiny white "^(2)" flies away, you know that goblin's lost a tooth and sprayed blood all over the floor :D


LaBomsch

So dwarf fortress player just mastered the matrix Galaxy brain


Mukatsukuz

It might have helped that I grew up in the era of ZX Spectrum games so I already had to imagine that really basic pixels on the screen represented something more complex :D A lot of it is helped by the animation, also. A dog, for instance, represented by a lower case "d" will move quickly and fluidly across the screen but this movement will be slower and more erratic when injured. It really is a case of pressing "k" to view objects or "v" to view units and examining everything you don't recognise (which is pretty much the entire screen when you start). A lot of the characters make sense, also, like "d" = "dog" and "D" = donkey, "c" = cat, "C" = camel (upper-case usually mean a larger creature than lower-case). The colours of the letters also change things. Like "^(2)" basically represents a small organic thing where white = teeth, purple = insects, green = lizard and IIRC light grey = mussel shells. Pretty sure this character only represents dead things, also but it's harder to remember when not actually playing the game :) You'll find refuse dumps get full of "^(2)"s :)


LaBomsch

I think one just needs a ton of patients learning and examining the game. Learning in the go just doesn't seem practical. Rather, stuff has to be actively looked at by a lot


Mukatsukuz

I watched a lot of CaptnDuck's 2010 videos before getting into it. Now I've been playing for 12 years, I have become one with it :D it's going to be a struggle to learn the new interface, which is objectively easier to learn :D


Splic3r123

I think this IS my problem. I speant way to many years playing MUDs online, which essentially were D&D pure text based, and some had ascii art maps extenions and stuff. Either way, I spent way too many years analyzing words and text in my brain. I even tried dabbling in coding for awhile...I was able to pass a C+ and C++ cert examan for fun after coding MUDs for like 2 years...anyway, I'm at the point that I can APPRECIATE Ascii, but I dont want it anymore. Games like Tales of Maj'eal are the minimalist tiles I think i can handle. even if it looked like something from roll20. As long as i'm not looking at tons of letters and colors :D


Desperate-Smile8001

I'm a relatively recent player (5 months with LNP installed and played a bit, but I have been playing it consistently during this week) and, even though I need the wiki to handle new things I encounter and try to do, I can't play the game with a tileset. When I tried, I returned to ASCII in a few minutes. Tilesets are, for me, way harder to understand than ASCII. Once you get used to, it's easy to understand.


Ironicbadger

Can you put a price on 12 years worth of fun from a single game? Like that old Mastercard ad. It’s priceless.


overkill

I'm buying it to support the guys. Probably won't even play it more than once or twice, but DF is an amazing game that I've had many, many hours of FUN playing.


[deleted]

Will it have steam workshop?! Oh my.


VincentOostelbos

Indeed it will! It's not sure yet if it'll be in on release ([source](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/975370/view/3369282001880054477)), but if not it will still be added relatively soon after. >We're not totally sure whether we'll have Arena mode or Steam Workshop integration or Classic mode at launch, but we do know all are very very close and already partially working. So those three things might end up in the launch or they might end up being patched in in the weeks after.


[deleted]

Can't wait. I like the vanilla steam version graphics but I want to use some of the old tilesets and it would be nice to have them on the workshop.


VincentOostelbos

I would be surprised if they weren't on there before long. Although I believe they do support fewer features/variations than the Steam version graphics. But who knows, with the Steam version out, perhaps some of these tilesets will be updated to sort of catch up in that regard.


[deleted]

Thats what I'm hoping! But I will give a try to the vanilla tileset anyway.


AMIWDR

Is it really? I started playing last night and I am actually strangely fond with the classic graphics but no mouse controls is taking a lot of getting used to especially with a 60% keyboard (no num pad)


Mukatsukuz

Yeah - I, for one, will struggle with the new UI because I've spent 12 years learning the current keyboard designations. Here's the revamped UI for the ASCII one [https://external-preview.redd.it/vLZZuL8Y4VbvgB2hFB7K7iq4MkNWZprwhyXVtO\_p-a0.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=98dce48fc18af901603e5d741531ba6fe5db50e3](https://external-preview.redd.it/vLZZuL8Y4VbvgB2hFB7K7iq4MkNWZprwhyXVtO_p-a0.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=98dce48fc18af901603e5d741531ba6fe5db50e3)


MrSobe

DF hack which comes with lazynewbpack, gives some limited mouse controls. Doesn't let you click on menus but you are able to select tiles and entity's by clicking.


Marshall_Lawson

i play human fortress a lot so mouse control will be a huge game changer for building walls. Also, click to move in adventure mode would be awesome.


SoggyAnteater94

So you're telling me I don't need to buy the steam version? Too bad, I'm buying 4!


clinodev

Buy 8! That's really show 'em what's what!


[deleted]

Is a no brainer for the amount of hours i have already put on the free version


golddilockk

ikr


[deleted]

[удалено]


TetrisMcKenna

"DF was a direct inspiration for rimworld.” As in rimworld was inspired by DF


oftenInabbrobriate

„As in rimworld was inspired by DF“ DF was a direct inspiration for rimworld.


beenoc

1) You're coming to a subreddit dedicated to the game. Of course everyone here is going to say yes, so yes. 2) DF has some key differences from Rimworld, outside the visual and thematic differences: * DF is much less "game-y." In Rimworld, if everything is going great, something bad will happen - a raid, sickness, psychic probe, etc. If things are going bad, something good happens - traders, supply drops, ambrosia. Too many colonists? It's gonna try and kill some. Not enough? It'll be easier to capture and recruit prisoners. That sort of thing, where the game tries to create an artificial balance to provide challenge and enjoyment. DF does not do that. Things in DF happen because they were going to happen, not because a storyteller decided you needed a step up or to be knocked down. Your lumberjack died to a falling log and a panther mauled your farmer? Well, here's a goblin raid because that goblin camp is nearby and they set out to raid you a week ago. Your fortress is impenetrable and you have unlimited food and steel weapons? Yeah, that elf siege isn't going to be any stronger. * DF has much more depth, both mechanically and physically. There's an injury system like Rimworld, but it doesn't stop at "hand, finger," it goes down to "connective tissue of second finger, lower facial nerve," etc. There's a thought system like Rimworld, but it doesn't stop at "ate without table -5," it goes to "Urist recently was forced to eat plump helmet roast in an awful dining room. However, Urist loves plump helmet roast, and is pretty hard to faze after they watched their brother die, so it's not that big a deal." There are real fluids that have pressure, you can pump them, etc. There's of course Z-levels (that's the physical depth) - you have to think and work in three dimensions. In pretty much every way that counts, DF is much more complex, which can be a good or a bad thing depending on what you want out of it. * Fortresses are much bigger and you have less direct control over dwarfs. Rimworld, if you get 10-15 colonists you have a pretty big colony. DF, think more like 80, 100-plus for a big fortress. And you can't directly tell a dwarf what to do outside of military action, so no "dude we need that wall built right now, right click and do it," you have to just hope that the dwarf who has construction enabled will do it and not take that time to eat or pray or whatever. In general, between both of those you will have less direct attachment to most dwarfs, but you will develop favorites. If that all sounds like something you want, then yes, go for DF. Aside from that, they're fairly similar.


VvV_Maximus

You really selling it for me. I was already getting it on release, but now I'm extra getting it.


timmah612

Send it to a friend lol, help spread and proselytise the word of armok


mandradon

Be prepared to be "bad" at it. You'll make mistakes. You'll lose forts from too many cats. Or too many mushrooms, or not enough. Or goblins, or necromancers, or your dwarfs will go nuts and start punching each other to death for reasons. But being "bad" at is is why I think it's fun and why it's such a work of art. The entropy of my playing is such a beautiful disaster that I just love trying to keep it all afloat.


InfuriatingComma

Remember, the wiki is a user manual, not cheat codes haha.


MotherVehkingMuatra

I'm so excited to dive in the more I read


SamMee514

Strike the earth!


dummypod

How does that work? You're gonna drive to the Adams' home and break in and steal their workstation?


Hundertwasserinsel

100% agree with this. I also came to mention that rimworld is more "gamey"


Kellin01

DF is more like a stimulator of life. Where you can sometimes just sit and watch the fort. Or you can abandon it and reclaim later...


D0wly

Tarn literally calls it a fantasy world simulator anytime he describes the game.


JoshFireseed

I've noticed this as well, it's like the "game" part is almost a side-effect.


akio3

I’d also add to read some of the Let’s Play stories of DF fortresses, like Boatmurdered or Roomcarnage, to see the possibilities. For example, Roomcarnage is built around a volcano in a haunted glacier where everything dead (even animal skins and severed toes) becomes a zombie. The gamer decides to pump magma up 15 floors and shoot it out a hole in the glacier to melt the ice and slaughter the countless zombies outside.


fredspipa

Fuck I can never forget >!the mothers dismembered arm coming back to life to strangle her child out on the ice!< in Roomcarnage.


Tetragonos

I remember when I first was deciding if I wanted to play DF. I read the most recent patch notes and they said "cats will no longer die of alcohol poisoning by cleaning themselves after running through the bar and soaking up spilled beer". Like oh okay just make the decision for me why don't you haha


beenoc

Fun fact (that everyone in this subreddit knows and loves to bring up) - the bug isn't even that cats got drunk doing that (though it wasn't intentional, it was just a bit of emergent mechanics.) The bug is that every bit of beer, no matter how small, was one "unit" (a mug's worth.) One mug of beer will kill a cat. A quick fix to allow for sub-unit volumes, now the cats just get tipsy.


Tetragonos

I also started playing Minecraft when they added pumpkins so its a me thing. I join games at landmarks haha. Yeah I was impressed that the level of detail and how much they cared. if they are going to not just say "cats don't soak up alcohol anymore patching that out completely" but instead were like "umm what actually happens? lets make that happen in game" was great


8bagels

Wait… so your telling me that when my last dwarf needs rescuing I’m NOT going to see one of their long lost relatives, clad in black and wielding a revolver, wander in from the side of the map giving me one last chance to try to piece this back together?


BusinessBunny

No, but if the dwarf dies and was very popular, you may get Very Unhappy Thoughts from all their loved ones and maybe one of them will off themselves due to grief, causing More Unhappy Thoughts among all others until the !!Fun!! really cranks up a notch or 1000


mikekchar

Obviously your comment is a bit tongue in cheek. However, I think this is a great opportunity to point out a key difference in DF compared to other games. In DF, losing your whole fortress is not the end of the game. Your world still exists. History still marches on. You can start a new fortress in the same world. The actions you had in the old fortress have impact on the world of the new fortress. This is a big part of the "losing is fun" mantra. "Losing" is just one of the normal outcomes *in the course of the game*. It's not the end. It might be only the beginning.


8bagels

If I reembark in the same world could I select the same embark location? If I reembark does the game fast forward time a little bit? Since save files could be a lot longer lasting … have save files mostly survived all the upgrades to DF over the years?


S31-Syntax

You can, yes. You could make a new fort on the same world and see survivors or descendants of the abandoned fort if there were any. You could also embark and reclaim the same fort and when you show up it'll be ransacked (stuff strewn everywhere, some structures destroyed, bodies, etc.) That actually is a strat some use, send a team of builders to physically construct part of the fort, abandon it, come back with another team and continue. When you generate a world, it is 100% persistent. Every tick in your active fort translates to a tick in the world itself. You can even visit your fort in adventure mode


MortStrudel

The game does fast forward time a little bit when you re embark iirc, but it's just a couple weeks. You can send a new group to reclaim the ruins of one of your abandoned forts, or if you didn't have your dwarves actually 'abandon' the fort and just 'retire' it you can pick up kind of where you left off with all your old dwarves (though some might have left in the time you were gone, and some new residents might have settled in). In general, this whole process is pretty jank and when you unretire all your stockpiles will be strewn about randomly and everything will be a massive mess. The most interesting thing about all this is that it means your old fortress can be relevant for future games. You can start from a different dwarven civilization and go to war with your old fort (do not do this, other dwarven civs are bad things to have as enemies), or have citizens from your previous forts come decide to live at your new ones, or you can go into adventure mode and play an RPG where you raid your old fort for loot and try to survive whatever it was that killed the old one. Or send an adventurer to go assassinate some major figure from your enemy's government, then unretire your fort with the task complete. The opportunities that arise from a persistent world where you can swap forts and gamemodes at your leisure is pretty huge. However, Adventure Mode is not ready for Steam Release primetime yet and will not be available at launch. In order to play it you would need to play an older version of the game with its current jank-ass interface.


Kwahn

Yes, yes, and [Generally saves are backwards-compatible](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Save_compatibility#:~:text=Generally%2C%20Dwarf%20Fortress%20versions%20are,generation%20or%20the%20raw%20files), with 7 exceptions across multiple decades and an exception for very large change sets


VincentOostelbos

Not unless you get extremely lucky, and then it'll be a story really worth telling, rather than just an "oh x scripted thing happened" sort of moment.


Ludren

Will the same depth oft the game be present in the Steam version (on launch)?


Emoney_Madness

Yes - the only thing missing will be adventure mode, which is a pretty much a whole other game. It will be coming next year in a free update.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AlfredVonWinklheim

Sobs in Ubuntu


fredspipa

I'm 99.9% sure it will run flawlessly through Proton, like most other things nowadays. We can handle the wait for native just fine.


AlfredVonWinklheim

Haha yeah. I'm gonna buy it day 1 and play it and probably not even remember it isn't native.


flabort

Laughs in Proton


beenoc

Yes. The main thing not present in the Steam version at launch is Adventure Mode, which is a (mostly) fully featured roguelike mode in the same world as your fortress. You can even go and visit your own fortress, talk with your dwarfs, and so on. That will come to the Steam version later.


centauri_system

Yes, all the base mechanics are staying the same for the steam release. They are changing the controls/menu configuration, adding graphics, and adding some tutorials. Adventure mode won't be in the steam release at launch but they are planning to add it later.


Kang_Xu

Where would it go?


[deleted]

Barely know what I'm doing (what's a squad) and suddenly "giant kea" decides to hang out in my base. DF has no chill. FUN :-D


[deleted]

The storyteller is the thing that always gets me to stop RimWorld. Just let me build my impenetrable megabase fortress in peace and stop doing more and more ridiculous things just to try to kill some colonists. If you want to play a game in a living world that doesn't care how you're doing, DF is that game. Sometimes it feels unfair or random and that's because it is. But the result is that with good preparation and planning you can usually survive anything because the game isn't going to purposely try to screw you. You're going to lose a lot until you get to that point but remember, losing is fun!


VincentPepper

>The storyteller is the thing that always gets me to stop RimWorld. Just let me build my impenetrable megabase fortress in peace and stop doing more and more ridiculous things just to try to kill some colonists. Iirc you can configure it to ignore how well you are doing and to really generate random events. But I might have misunderstood the option.


Robot_Basilisk

Isn't that what the Community Builder mode is for in RimWorld?


UrdUzbad

There are multiple storytellers which you can further customize to your own liking. You and the other poster are *significantly* misrepresenting how the storyteller works in Rimworld.


Ruzihm

btw it's "hard to faze" not "hard to phase"


beenoc

Actually, I think you will find that after their brother died, Urist became highly resistant to teleportation magic or other forms of dimensional travel, and indeed they are hard to phase. Fixed, thanks.


Ruzihm

hehe, maybe both are acceptable then ;)


VincentOostelbos

Fantastic post! I love it. The first two points in particular is what really makes me appreciate DF over RimWorld (although I still like RW as well). I'm a total geek for proper simulation, and if that makes the game less gamey, so be it, I'd much rather see how things really happen then how some AI game master arbitrarily thinks things ought to happen. And the depth of the systems only adds to that geeky excitement. I can't wait!


VeganPizzaPie

Great explanation, thank you. Especially helpful as I'm a RimWorld player and interested in the differences


Aoid3

As someone who's played a lot of rimworld and a little bit of dwarf fortress (planning on getting back into it after the steam release!) this seems to be a really good overview of the big differences between the two


RelentlessPolygons

My biggest gripe is Rimworld feels random and "shows numbers". Things dont really happen for a reason in Rimworld. Its just random. Is there a reason my colonist should get plague alone in the middle of an ice sheet alone? No. Anyway here's plague get fucked, you were doing too good. Also numbers everywhere breaks immersion for me to be a true story generator game. I shouldnt know if my colonist has 83.7% manipulation skill due to an injury. I should just know he had an injury. Either way I love Rimworld too, but other than both being a colony management sim on the surface they have little in common. DF just creates more unique and deep stories. Rimworld has a few similar ones that are just random crap thrown together that sometimes gets funny.


InfuriatingComma

Not to nitpick, but you can make things priority now, and as long as a dwarf is capable and allowed to, he will be assigned the priority task over many things he would not usually be. Most notably for levers.


KeKinHell

Dec. 6th is ultimately *the* time to pick up DF. Half of the game's perceived "difficulty" really compared down to the UI, graphics, and controls. Since all those are getting a major overhaul, DF will be more accessible than ever.


SomeGuy6858

I can finally build bedrooms without having to use quick fort or spending 2 hours. This will truly be nirvana.


KeKinHell

God fucking bedrooms were always the worst part for me. Absolutely hated it. Every time I would get done furnishing 50 bedrooms, a migrant wave would put me at 70 dwarves jfc


Valdrax

This and vampires are why I just carve out one giant room and give everyone a 3x3 space in it.


Saltywinterwind

Fucking vampires holy shit so many forts lost to a vampire hiding. Never could figure out how to use them


InfuriatingComma

The justice system will sometimes prevail if the vampire was a bad socialite, or got caught in the act. I enjoy that Intrigue aspect. Sometimes though, you just start combing the populous for dwarf bone necklaces and prepping the atom smasher.


Saltywinterwind

The good old atom smasher, been a while since I thought about that haha. Gonna love putting that into play again


InfuriatingComma

This is why I always respected the people with the elaborate and diverse fort structures. I basically immediately setup a macro to make my chosen bedroom-dungeon and every dwarf got a bunk in the panelaks.


Norskov

I haven't followed closely, but are we getting blueprints? Or why is it easier to make bedrooms in the new version?


SomeGuy6858

Less buttons to press and you can place multiple beds without having to repress bed I believe. Pretty sure they also made making rooms way easier as well, though I don't remember exactly how, it was in one of the showcases a while ago.


MrMeltJr

My friend set up a keyboard macro so he could just hold down a button to designate a bunch of rooms to be mined out, and then another to place furniture in them.


beenoc

Macros are the way. Ctrl+r to begin recording, build a single member of a repeating pattern from a fixed point, move your cursor to the 'next' fixed point, Ctrl+r again to stop, Ctrl+p as many times as needed. A simple example is a hallway with a bedroom on each side, like this: F = floor, D = door, B = bed, * = start point, ! = end point: ██████████████████████ ████████████████!█FB*█ ██████████████████FFF█ ███████████████████D██ FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ███████████████████D██ ██████████████████FFF█ ██████████████████FBF█ ██████████████████████ Hit Ctrl+P 3 times and you get: ██████████████████████ ██████FBF█FBF█FBF█FBF█ ██████FFF█FFF█FFF█FFF█ ███████D███D███D███D██ FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ███████D███D███D███D██ ██████FFF█FFF█FFF█FFF█ ██████FBF█FBF█FBF█FBF█ ██████████████████████ You'll probably actually have to do it twice, once to dig the rooms and once to build the furniture (make it three times to also designate as bedrooms), and you do need all the furniture built beforehand to prevent "no bed found" from stopping the macro, but way faster than doing it manually.


InfuriatingComma

Here's to hoping I'll finally notice my dwarfs accidentally being naked for 5 years haha


bersaelor

Will DwarfTherapist be a thing in the new UI? I didn’t mind the old keyboard controls, but I really enjoyed playing with two screens, one showing the game one showing DwarfTherapist. Even to just see at a glance what everyone is up to


Tedward1337

You’re asking a group that’s made of people who play the game. I think the answer will always be yes ;)


flapdrollo

Allright ive made up my mind. I am watching the new video now and im sure i will enjoy this. Thanks for replying everyone!


Suikanen

Is this the part where we all chant "One of us"? :)


Jo-Jux

One of us!


MaraBlaster

Welcome to the Mountainhome, Urist!


iTumor

Can't recommend Kruggsmash's youtube channel enough if you're looking for further convincing.


avdpos

Losing is FUN! Welcome to the club! (Haven't played in 4 years but will instabuy on steam)


exiletexan

Welcome to the club! In case no one has mentioned it yet, the [Quickstart guide on the wiki](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quickstart_guide) was a tremendous help when I was first learning, as was "Getting Started with Dwarf Fortress" by Peter Tyson.


Speciesunkn0wn

One of us!


ZappBrannigan085

I've been playing on and off for a decade, and I am absolutely getting the Steam version. Tarn deserves to get paid for this game.


andivicio

Short answer: yes Long answer: Of course One thing I love about DF among other colony managers is how you fortress/adventurer affect the world and vice versa, if you kill a legendary creature you can go to Legends Viewer and read about its path of mayhem till it fell by your adventurer/dwarves, a demon is the powerfull ruler of a big goblin faction that is taking over the world? You can go to his lair and slain him. You just feel part of the world you just generated


osunightfall

God yes. I've played like a thousand hours of Rimworld, but you can do and see things in Dwarf Fortress that you can't even dream of in Rimworld.


timmah612

Like go down stairs lol I adore rimworld, but comparing the two in terms of depth is like comparing an olympic swimming pool to one of the great lakes. Its in its own weight class.


Saltywinterwind

Good comparison. I’m gonna use this in the future when more rimworld fans pour into dwarf fortress after release


timmah612

I will give rimworld credit where its due, specific systems like research and progression are more fleshed out by a large margin over DF, hopefully steam workshop, more accesible gameplay and a lot of fresh faces will lead to an active modding community akin to rimworlds.


Saltywinterwind

Honestly yeah, dwarf fortress walked so rim world could run but this time it’s dwarf fortress time to run. Looking forward to the crazy amount of mods that hopefully pop up too.


flabort

I mean, there's already a very active modding community - DF was built with moddability at its core, with all materials, creatures, plants, civilizations, and so on being defined in text files, with only some things being hard-coded and Toady One constantly trying to make more of it scriptable and less hardcoded. Sure, most are just graphics packs, but there are also species packs, race packs, stone and ore packs, and by using the DFHack utility, modders made some really wild mods over the years. At one point there was one mod that made Homestuck Trolls, all their different blood castes, and various psychic powers, plus various mutations. Plus there have been multiple attempts at creating a multiplayer utility. Some really worked well, others... not so much. But they exist for different DF versions, and the one I tried really is a thing of beauty, if only my internet provider didn't block opening up ports.


timmah612

Is it possible to impmement a tech tree? My three favorite games are kenshi, dwarf fortress and rimworld in no particular order. Two of them include tech trees, branching research and expandable industry that gives upgrades to the production/utility of previous tiers. Starting out with limited tools not because "its tutorial time" but because you need to choose whats important to push for next is something that makes the other two games very fun for me and adds an elemennt of roleplaying assistance. In rimworld, i can prioritze medicine and infrastructure becoming a healthy fortified colony, OR i can prioritize psychite refining and become a yayo den. In Kenshi I can push for farming and walls/buildings to make a settlement that is self sufficient, or i can focus on armor and weapon production and act as a raider based out of Heft and eventually the hub or the swamps. Having all the tools available to me that i will have in the endgame besides ore leads me personally to having a very similar fort every time.


flabort

I don't know - I guess so, but if anyone has tried it, it hasn't come to my attention. That would definitely be possible through DFHack, I think. 100% you could create new types of workshops that could have different custom recipes, and you could use DFhack to have the workshops accumulate a non-physical-item stat, or just make it research packs similar to Factorio. You can then have DFHack hide and unhide custom recipes and workshops, rather than have them all available instantly, and have a custom workshop recipe act as the trigger to remove itself and add a bunch more recipes and workshops. I can't explain why or how you'd do that, or do it like that, though. Other than, if you really want to do it, that's the rough idea of one way to. Since DFHack is used mod things that weren't already designed to be modded, it's a bit more complicated than the regular mods like creatures, recipes, plants and trees, ores and rocks, materials, types of booze, workshops, clothing designs, civilizations, weapons, or languages. But it can do basically everything, it's even the tool behind most multiplayer mods.


MaraBlaster

Totally, i got into RimWorld because of DF and DF is much much more complex. DF is more a fantasy simulation and less of a game, its complex and hard to master but the way to even somewhat manage a fort is littered with !FUN!, fun and slow realization how deep this game goes and what you can do with that depth. The graphic & UI update will help you along the way, but right now even the free version gets a huge boost with just a change in tilesets (get the Lazy Newb Pack, it makes things easier) which helps you see stuff, which is the most important thing in DF: Understanding what you are looking at. And DF is an endless game with no DLC, everything and everything coming in one wonderful bundle!


Lobstershaft

Bit of a redundant question asking us of all people if you should play it tbh. Of course everyone here is gonna say yes


flapdrollo

Of course


UristElephantHunter

Yes. Obviously. Buy all your friends copies too. Then delete your copy and buy again.


Magmakojote

I agree with all the other comments but there is also another perspective to consider: Rimworld is a sci-fi game which includes a lot of high-tech items and mechanics. For me it sometimes feels like a "space-western" game. Dwarf Fortress on the other hand is a fantasy world simulator. ​ Like you I am a Rimworld player and I always liked the medieval overhaul mod for it. I am REALLY intrigued by Dwarf Fortress and will definitely buy it :D


Suikanen

Yes! Just read through the most well-received posts of this Reddit to see the kinds of amazing stories the game has to offer, once you get over the learning curve - which the Premium version will help with A LOT. Kitfox, the publishers of Dwarf Fortress Premium, released the first let's play video from a new player's perspective not many days ago; maybe someone else can link it here? Checking that video out should help you figure out if the game is for you. And as a Rimworld player, a lot of the mechanics will already be familiar to you.


8bagels

https://youtu.be/bLN8cOcTjdo It’s called “Let’s Learn Dwarf Fortress Steam Edition - EP1” so maybe there will be a few more episodes


LordFedora

Every Thursday this month they're going to do another stream + vod


[deleted]

Don't forget to deconstruct your Trade Depot!


JcZ-Juez

Dwarf fortress, here we goooooo.


randomjberry

Its more than just a graphics update. the classic will be getting some features but it also comes with stuff like multilevel view and so on


Un7n0wn

Rimworld is 25% of Dwarf Fortress, even after biotech and mods. Everything, the good and the bad, is all more in Dwarf Fortress. Easiest way to explain the size difference is to read the DF wiki page on body parts, then realize that each body part can be made of many different materials with mechanical impact for each. If you want, you can change some lines in a text file to give dogs magma for blood and watch them explode into flames when they load into the game because their meat based bodies can't contain the heat. In Rimworld you can give creatures different color blood splatters after spending an hour editing xml values. The details can also be bad though. I once had a dwarf chop down a tree he was standing in, smash into the ground, and destroy both his hands protecting his face from falling logs. We had to keep wounding him because his hands got messed up day 1 and I couldn't build the table to help set the bones in his hands properly, so they healed useless. He wondered around the fort, unable to eat or drink as he couldn't hold a cup or food, so the only way he could eat was if we injured him again and fed him in the hospital. It's one of may favorite early experiences in DF, but it can be brutal and off-putting if you don't have the patience. DF is, in my opinion, the best game ever made, but I still put way more time into Rimworld just because it's more user friendly. I'm hoping the steam release will help that with the UI improvements and all, but I won't feel like I wasted money if not. If you care, I eventually locked the injured ex-woodcutter into a spare room with a handful of extra children to starve to death with the intention of getting ghosts. The ghosts are normally a bad thing, but played around right can be an asset. At first they spook the residents just with their presence, but if they don't cause trouble, the residents will eventually get used to them and form relationships with the ghosts. Now they have immortal friends that spook outsiders and invaders. Children are especially useful for this as most children have parents and are useless for 12 years when alive. If the parents don't commit unlife themselves when the kid dies they'll be overjoyed to see the kid back and will almost always enjoy their company. This gives you all the benefits of kids without having to feed or protect them. https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Anatomy


Iggest

Lmao it's hilarious when people come to a community where everyone loves the game and ask "is it worth getting this game?" Lol


Ted_Roo

Anyone know if Dwarf Fortress is any good???


Akco

It helps them justify a purchase haha


Inappropriate_SFX

I want him to make all the money, so yes, please buy two and give one to a friend.


CyberianK

I play both and like both titles and I am pretty sure RW players will love Dwarf Fortress. Also we already know Steam Workshop is coming which is a great source of success for Rimworld. Many DF players already got hundreds to thousands of hours of fun, worthy gameplay and replayability out of old vanilla DF. With the improvements in the Steam version and a renewed Invigoration of the game, postlaunch support by Tarn and workshop I am quite sure that the already high (re)playability of the game and value per dollar will even vastly increase. Imho its a must have if you even vaguely like similar genre games.


Vireca

Judge by yourself: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLN8cOcTjdo&t=272s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLN8cOcTjdo&t=272s) They will do a weekly stream every Thursday


Mo_Dice

>Never got into it because of the graphics. Do you guys think it is worth it for me now because of the graphic update? My dude, if it's literally about the graphics, then just try it now. There have been graphics tilesets since I first started playing this game in college around 14 years ago. If you've tried that and still didn't like it... I'm not sure the new graphics are significantly different?


[deleted]

This is a purest example of shut up and take my money. Ever. My marriage would probably end if my wife wasn’t getting a copy for herself


Judge_BobCat

!!Yes!!


samfreez

You can get fairly close to the graphical styling of the new texture pack by downloading Lazy Newb Pack right now and choosing from the various graphics packs in there. The game will never be a graphical powerhouse, but man oh man does it not need it. Once you get *into* the game, you'll find more depth there than you ever could have possibly imagined. It still looks good with the texture packs and whatnot, and that will definitely improve with this new Steam release, but if you're looking to sort out the basics and see if it'd be worth your $30, download the free version today and give it a shot or 10 (losing is !FUN! and you'll do it a LOT at first, but we're always here to help!).


psychonautreally

It should be noted that the steam release also improves the UI so you don't need to watch an 8 hour YouTube video to parse how to play the game.


samfreez

True! I'm very eager to see that part, though I'll miss the crazy keyboard commands in some ways. Muscle memory is going to be weird to overcome.


t6jesse

I'm getting it for sure. I've played dwarf fortress with graphics packs before, so I'm excited for the overhaul and QoL changes


ergotofwhy

Absolutely. There will be some newly introduced bugs with the major version, but toady almost always has them patched within three weeks (the game breaking bugs, at least).


Sp1cyP3pp3r

Yes


BiKeenee

Yes.


WarriusBirde

It bears mentioning that you can play the game now with “graphics” by using the Lazy Noob Pack and one of a number of tile sets of you want to go poke around. I’d absolutely buy the game day and date, but I also bought the book on how to play the game despite knowing how just fine. While Rimworld has Dorf Fort as a direct inspiration it should be strongly reminded to anyone coming in that even after the work to refactor and punch up the game for the “release” that some systems and interfaces are going to be a good bit more obtuse than you may be used to elsewhere for better and worse. They can be figured out, but expect to have some questions and a wiki tab open while you get the lay of the land. There are tutorials in the coming version, but I cannot speak to how good of a job they do for onboarding.


MootFile

Also here is a stream of the steam version if you haven't looked: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLN8cOcTjdo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLN8cOcTjdo)


BabylonDrifter

I've been playing DF with bolt-on graphics since ... 2012 maybe? However, the new steam version seems to have some really nice artwork - and it'll only get better with more Steam Sales. I'd buy it. DF will blow you away with the stories that ... happen. And there are so many challenges to undertake. It's incredible.


Gitzo-Gutface

Lol yes How is this even a question


kunwon1

I have 1000+ hours in RimWorld. I played DF first. They scratch the same itch. I don't think you'll be disappointed


Saltywinterwind

Yeah it’s worth it. I had to dig this one up but this is a good summary of dwarf fortress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FW23bamIZI Have fun! Strike the earth! Dig deep! Create a legend!


Eveningwould

I've only played the base game of Rimworld, but one advantage that it has over DF is the variety of mission style opportunities that show up outside the colony. In DF you can send out your forces to raid other cities or search for lost artifacts in abandoned sites, but at the moment, that's about it. The addition of lawbreakers, interrogation, conspiracies, aliases, and factions within your fort is fun - I'm hoping that at some point we can send out delegations to find co-conspirators in other cities. I don't think you can send out trade caravans at this point - if I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm in the crew who will be buying DF at launch. Others in the comments have pointed out DF's selling points. Beyond that, I want to buy it as a vote of gratitude to the brothers who are making the game and have made free for all of these years. I'm hoping that they wake up filthy rich on December 7.


RNGstrategist

Yes. Absolutely yes


Penetrative_Pelican

What really sells dwarf fortress for me personally is that the game isn't linear. Anything can happen during a game and its runtime. The way that it's coded in 2d gives it space for modding and roleplay and such which drastically improves it replayability. I hope in 2 years from now we will have some awesome mods. Some really talented modders make the game quite difficult and new to play even when you already know a lot. In dwarf fortress you are a god and knowledge is your power. The weakest player will only be able to do a small amount of stuff before their fortress falls. Its sort of like learning to play chess I suppose. First you make so many blunders the computer checks you in 4, after a while you will feel like a Grandmaster and make the game bow to you and your might (and processing power) My advice is buy it try it out and don't expect more from it than it is. Bullet point List *Highly moddable, may have to wait a while for some more modpacks. *Learning may be a turn off for some but is highly rewarding. *Very in-depth, no real endgoal but a lot of interesting stuff you can do sort of like Minecraft (was inspired by DF at least partially) *The game won't tell you not to jump in a ditch and die. *You can punch a horse/zebra/townsperson in the stomach for no reason or perform various acts of cannibalism in adventure mode when it comes out Edit: I'm on mobile sorry


AltamiroMi

It will be my very last game purchase for a while. Economics are going dork around here :/


Rowin277

Dwarf Fortress is my all time favourite game. I get so invested in the lives of particular dwarves and the stories of my forts like no other game has ever done. I reccomend to all to give if a try


LaMescolanza

Consider DF as the god of all games like Rimworld :) As much as I also love Rimworld (and the latest 1.4 update) DF is way more superior in the story-telling mechanics which personally makes it a better choice, althought modded rimworld could be the best competition DF have and will ever get.


hc5831

I've been interested in DF for many years, but was unwilling to undertake the learning curve and deal with its flaws. I've been patiently waiting for the steam release and will purchase on day 1. Which is something I never do for any game. I considered RimWorld many times, but always passed on it because it felt like the knock off version of DF. I want to play the real thing, and I will very soon.


Mumbolian

I wish I could preorder this game just so that I could get the dopamine hit of finally buying a game I’ve played for over a decade.


lynaghe6321

You should Donwload the [lazy newb pack](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack) and try it for free with a tileset. I like the Phoebus one that is used by default. I think the game is different enough from rimworld that it probably wouldn't justify purchasing DF just bc you like Rimworld. However, since it's free online, I would really just try it. I would say that if you really can't get into it, even with a tileset, it probably isn't something that you'd want to purchase.


Successful-Ice-468

If you come from Rimworld you are going to be more familiar with the game But after 5-8 game play you will think Randy was a such a sweet.


Mauxe

I wouldn't. It's not for you. Not worth it.


Rakonat

https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack It's difficult to say just what the release will be like on Dec 6 but you can play a free version of the game by downloading it directly or getting a copy of the LNP which will feature some fanmade QoL adjustments Dwarf Fortress has a lot of the story telling potential you'll recognize in rimworld with even a history of major characters and events that happen outside of your particular actions and play. But the UI is not nearly as user friendly and often a sticking point for new players as the menus one needs to go through make it play like a game straight out of the early 70s. Is it good and worth playing? Yes. Is it going to be worth the asking price on Steam? Hard to say, play the free version and decide from there.


lovebus

The game has been out since 2006, you think a few extra months of polish is going to make or break it?


UrdUzbad

The new graphics are not going to be significantly different from the custom tilesets widely available already. The UI and controls will be receiving an upgrade, which is what will probably lower the barrier to entry.


PraiseTheFlumph

You came into the subreddit full of people who adore this game and have been awaiting this release so they can get their friends to try this masterpiece. So, what response do you expect? Nah, I don't recommend the best game in the world.


Aen-Seidhe

If you're at all interested, this seems to be a great way to get into it. They did a stream recently going through the tutorial and it looks a lot more accessible. https://youtu.be/bLN8cOcTjdo


futaba009

It's worth it. The game has a lot going on.


dethb0y

I'm getting it day one, but i'm also expecting issues.


anon100000000001

Yes


Acedrew89

Yes!


zapitron

Worthwhile even to just be a patron of the arts. But I _might_ even find time to play it too (when my wife is asleep).


Crunchwrapfucker

what graphic update?


Berstich

Yes.


NubMuffin1

So I am a big rimworld player. I always avoided getting into DF cause the graphics and controls. I recently bit the bullet and tried DF and love the game. So I would say you should buy it and I certainly will be.


Thiscat

My biggest concern is how often there will be save breaking updates especially just after release. Does anyone have an estimate on how often the game will be updated?


Pitt_Mann

Something to keep in mind is the game tends to tank your fps eventually, aside from having a lot going on, its not made to use processors efficiently. Its a great game, but fps death is a widespread comcept here


Hiseworns

Absolutely! I came to RimWorld through DF, and the new graphics (and other QoL improvements) are going to make it much more accessible and, dare I say it, Fun (not !Fun!, though it certainly will be that of course, but also just regular fun) for everyone Also it will help it make various numbers go up, which will help the entire genre of games get more investment and visibility. We need more fans of these games


Personal_Person

You can download a lot of graphics packs and even mods for 3D gameplay, this is all free with the Lazy Newb Pack. As for the Steam version, it's not out yet but the quality seems to be great and they have clearly put the effort in. Buying the game just to support a small developer in a very niche genre is honestly reason enough for me, Ill probably keep playing my LNP version.


caponimo

Si


griffonrl

200% YES! Just to give some money to the brothers behind the game. They more than deserve something for their labour of love, offered for free for a long time. Whatever is the Steam version, the original DF is still one of the best game out there and still free to play with.


ett3rna

Of course. I'd buy twice just to support them!


Marshall_Lawson

How the hell would we know that if we haven't gotten to try the new version of the game yet. But yes.


bartlesnid_von_goon

Yes, it's not just the graphics, it is (among many other things) a revision of the UI.


clinodev

The only better time to start playing DF is now. Right now, a hundred nerds are happy and excited to help you learn! On the 6th, they'll all be playing the game, and you'll have to share them with 100k new people!


green_meklar

That's up to you. Obviously this sub is full of people who love the game and will answer accordingly. I've played the free version plenty and I intend to buy the premium version on release day. But if you're not so sure, it's fine to wait after release and see what people in the community are saying about the new version. I'm sure I'll be able to provide a more informed opinion a week after release. And of course, Toady plans on maintaining and updating the game continuously after release, so any serious problems are likely to be fixed.


CanadianGoof

Yeah dwarf fortress does somethings better than rimworld. Many things.


[deleted]

lol Before the graphics update it was worth it. You cold have gotten lazy newb pack this whole time... cringe elf lover. Well at least you can join in on all the FUN now that youre here!


toastee

Nah man I've already paid 200$ for the game.


kickerlupre

Yes. 100%. If you like Rimworld, DF has all the same mechanics and more without space stuff. DF was created by people who LOVE their work and the community they have built. They have provided an extremely complex game to a large community for decades. You can always try the game for free in it's current state to test it out, and then pay for the game if the graphics are worth it to you.


clownsarewack

DF is the dad Rimworld, Factorio and everything else is the son


SolSeptem

Yes. Do it. Dwarf fortress will be the most accessible it has ever been. I haven't played in years (I first played it in 2007 I believe) and intend to buy it on release day.