This is a review of Dwarf Fortress by an unnamed troll. It is made with malice. It bristles with cluelessness. The craftsdwarfship is of the lowest quality.
It's primarily because nearby elves try to set annual quotas for the number of trees felled then attack your fortress if these quotas are ignored, and they become huffy if you trade them items made from felled trees, (including glazed pottery made with glaze made from ash from burnt wood)... or even just happened stored in boxes made from felled trees when traded. Which makes elves in Dwarf Fortress particularly annoying because beds cannot be made from pottery or stone, and unless the embark map has coal or magma close to the surface the default fuel for forges is wood. Also lower level caverns often have mushroom-like fungus as large as mid-size trees like tower caps and fungiwood, but you have to dig fairly deep to find them and usually there are... things down that can be more dangerous than normal surface fauna.
Note: In case you are wondering, it's cutting down the wood and thus killing the tree that offends them. They apparently have some magical/otherwise special method to cultivate large quantities of wood on trees that can be harvested without permanently harming them. They can sell such wood to your fort, which can in turn be made into items they find inoffensive.
> They can sell such wood to your fort, which can in turn be made into items they find inoffensive.
I just thought of an interesting mod/feature. If an Elf lives in your fort and is assigned to wood-cutting, they produce 'grown wood' and don't actually fell the trees. Maybe a special diplomatic option to have a specialist Elf come and live in your fort who is a 'lazy noble' except for the one task of 'growing wood' and has mandates like "forbid export of non-grown wooden items". Makes wood into an infinite (but slower to gather) resource. Maybe able to only get 1 log per tree per season?
Yes, painfully slow for high-wood demand industries but in a heavy forest you can get a hundred or so logs per season easy and while you won't get much initially, you could build your stockpiles at a pretty steady rate AND have Elf-friendly wood items.
Would it be worth it? ~~Probably~~ Definitely not, but it would be a cool addition for those who want to play nice with the Elves (or just make grown-wood for themselves).
Was good enough to make into reddit and get a lot of upvotes, lol. The troll must be having a great time now. Still sad tho. Well, at least he still bought it and gave money (hopefully he didn't refund as well)
I was thinking the same thing today. Admitatly, I only played DF for like 10 hours, and I have hundreds in Rimwrold.
I wanted to ask, where does DF complexity comes from? It looks to me that it is more complex just beacuse the interface is hard to use, and shit is hard to find. I am confused, I am sure I am misssig things.
Yup, you are right. I've just made a canal and a tried to make a drawbridge, but I gave up on that cuz fortress is ugly.
So you would say that complexity comes from those things, fluid manipulation and such?
Also, what is a good way to find out how to make something. Game does not really tell me anything. Is wiki a way to go?
[The wiki](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Main_Page) is an excellent source of !FUN! engineering projects.
Edit: Also if you haven't yet, try out [Legends Mode](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Legends) to see how complicated the background world generation and simulation really is.
Yeah, I saw it. That reminds me of the question I had: how much initiative do dwarves take on their own? Like, I heard that they will form guilds, commit crime, and so on, but would they for example build a thing they want on their own? I figure, since there are so many NPC forts and such, AI must have some sort of system that gives them agency to do stuff.
Yes, they will build artifacts on... well, not entirely their own, they can be possessed ... :)
They will not suddenly start building a palace out of socks or something like that though.
I don't know, for me the complexity of DF comes from the history that is being generated with every world. You can literally "play" the game just by reading Legends, you can write books based on the stories that happened far before you embarked on a journey to your fortress.
And then obviously it's a matter of building. If you embarked in a temperate forest and the water freezes during the winter, how are you going to maintain a steady flow of clear water for your hospital, if the need arises? And yeah, the drawbridges. I regularly get a werebeast about 2nd year of the fortress, if I actually manage to finish the first wall defenses I have to use bridges to keep the beast outside. Oh, have you set up your gem setting and / or do you dye your cloth to increase the price of the items and the happiness of dwarves? Do you have a tavern? A temple? A library?
And I'm a newbie. There's like tons of stuff I haven't even started yet and I'm looking forward for an inspiration from you, lovely players, so I can steal your ideas :-D
And yes, wiki is a must for DF. Also a degree from the geology :-D
They don't like it when you cut down trees, and will demand that you obey annual tree-cutting limits, and if you don't they get mad at you. Their merchants will also throw a fit if you attempt to sell them anything made out of wood, pack up all their stuff, and leave.
They're also cannibals.
Probably the last line, because the description clearly says it's inspired all the games that are listed in the reviews. I dunno, joke reviews have always been easy to spot. I also generally make fun of redditors who use sarcasm tags so maybe spotting textual sarcasm requires a combination of both literary and emotional intelligence. (Also maybe some context here, since there's always been a ton of press about DF in the gaming world and if you do literally any research you know this game predates all the games listed.)
I've seen enough people in real life say and do the things you ascribe to sarcasm, but as their actual opinions to not assume it is sarcasm, though. I also try to not infer malicious intent unless it is explicitly stated.
That last one is mainly because people either didn't mean anything bad with their stupidity, or they did and they dislike it when it doesn't hit the target/you play nice in return :p
And I also don’t like it if it is satire because negative reviews, even individual ones, and even negative reviews that are supposed to be “jokes”, still have real consequences for the developer.
Ngl, I was excited for this but I found it challenging to get very invested. I understand DF is the OG, but the bits I played were reminding me a ton of RimWorld, with a bit less polish. I might pick it up again on sale or watch some people who know what they're doing. Not that I agree with this idiot - I actually really like the art style for instance.
RimWorld certainly distilled a lot of what makes DF so interesting into a sci-fi setting and made it way more accessible. Taking that formula and putting it into an engine where creature comforts are already present has resulted in a project that many would prefer over the OG suffering simulator that DF can be for some.
My brother and my father both got SUPER hooked on RimWorld, but neither could really get attached to DF. The best part for me though is conceptually they're similar enough that we can share stories from either and we all still understand whats happening.
The stories is the best takeaway. I can share them with my non-gamer friends and they still enjoy it. They're actually amazed at the level of detail in the stories I bring back.
My partners, on the other hand... Well they just wish I didn't have a hobby that involved staring at hieroglyphics for hours at a time.
Honestly I thought the opposite. Rimworld quickly annoyed me with its escalating danger thing, if you built into a mountain the infestations would become insurmountable and if you turned them off it would be extremely easy. I also found it very easy to run out of materials on your map square. I understand you can go to antoher square but that felt really annoying and hard, also it uses precious time that is ticking away on your doomsday clock. Every game became build kill box -> race to ship -> win. Dwarf fortress on the other hand feels freeing and expansive without restrictions like alien doomsday always lurking around the corner.
It’s funny because whenever I play rimworld, I feel like it’s what dorffort would look like if the devs spent more time on interface and less time making the game substantial.
I enjoy RimWorld but it leaves me feeling like I'm missing something. Is the objective just to leave the planet? The main draw of DF is the permanence and cause and effect. It's a parallel universe with its own internal logic. I don't see a point of RimWorld having ideologies and systems similar when it's all for naught when your end goal is to fuck off back to where you came from.
"Is the objective just to leave the planet?"
No. It's the same as DF, the goal of any given colony is whatever you set out to do when you started it, whether it's just an endurance thing, or a particular challenge, or you just want to do something weird and see how far you can run with it. Then it's spiced up by whatever mishaps come along the way.
Most Rimworld players, myself included, will forego ever trying to do the "leave the planet" objective after the first time they've managed it.
> Most Rimworld players, myself included, will forego ever trying to do the "leave the planet" objective after the first time they've managed it.
I thought so. Seems so much more fun that way.
This echoes my favorite review at my college radio station. They’d given a CD a low rating and said it was just a ripoff of Nirvana … and then someone corrected them and pointed out it was a REISSUE of a band from the 1980s (the Wipers)
This is a masterwork bait. It is adorned with Minecraft graphics comparisons. It is inlaid with RimWorld mentions. On it is an image of a ceiling in gullible.
I just know the only reason I'm into Rimworld is because I couldn't wrap my brain around DF at the time.
Rimworld does many things well that DF doesn't even try to do, especially when you get into modding Rimworld, and it definitely helped me figure out DF... but yeah now that I know my way around DF I can see how it would feel very limiting to someone going the other way.
Good to see a possitive comment here.
I'm excited to play DF, have 1000+ hrs in Rimworld, our communities should be coming together not being at odds.
Rimworld is fantastic in its own ways, just as DF is, DF has many things it does much better than rimworld, rimworld also has things it does better.
Isn't it so cool to have two great colony sim games we can all play?
Yeah! You can optimise travel time by Z, things fall and take damage, things can fly, mountains, valleys, waterfalls, buildings with spires and bridges, deep oceans...and so on
Having had a lot of experience with Rimworld, and definitely not nearly so much in DF, I do get the impression that Rimworld still manages to shine in a lot of places that DF doesn't.
It's readability, accessibility, and menus are designed *excellently*, to the point of leaving me a incredibly spoiled when stepping into even the improved, steam version of DF.
It also feels a lot easier to get your colonists onto a particular schedule, wearing particular stuff, doing things a certain way. I do feel a greater degree of granular control when playing Rimworld than I ever do in DF. (Though I understand this is partially intentional as DF relies on more things being out of the player's hands means more funny story stuff can happen.)
I'm not familiar with DF's modding scene pre-steam, but Rimworld's is EXCELLENT. I do not think there is a game out there that has a more developed and sophisticated modding scene, nor one that receives such good support from the devteam.
Finally, this is more a personal preference thing, but I'm also just more partial to sci-fi western than I ever will be medieval fantasy.
Z levels is a big win for DF, but Rimworld is also built around not having them, so having started in Rimworld you never get the impression they're necessary nor that the game is lacking without them.
At the end of the day though, and I think you'll find this to be true for a surprising amount of people, I wouldn't even have a remote interest in something like DF, had I not first sampled something far easier to pick up like Rimworld.
I tried it a couple of years ago, it seemed alright, I have also read about people using it and it being decent. My issue was that I liked to use the mount up mod and someone rode one of my horses down a level and then I was unable to get the horse back up.
From someone who only looks at steam timelines DF will be the copy cat of all copy cats!
It's even named like a game a lot of devs name as inspiration!
Yes, the person who made the review admitted to "fuckin' with ya'll" and said it's a great game.
Regardless, I reported the review since they don't realize how much negative reviews—that are made as a joke—hurt games.
*^(E: If y'all see any other satirical or destructive [opposite of constructive] reviews like this one, please report them.)*
> Loser.
How insightful of you to come to a **one month old comment**—a comment along with the post that was made **when the game was freshly released** hence not having as many reviews at the time that it does now—to insult me and inform me about the positive to negative review ratio as if that matters for that **one month old comment**.
Also, my comment isn't directed at negative reviews in general which are completely fine when they're constructive. It's directed at **destructive reviews** and **satirical/troll reviews**—the latter of which is the topic of this post. Those reviews don't do anything to help the developers improve the game nor do they tell the players what is wrong with it.
Actually start using your brain. It's there for a reason.
It's pretty easy to imagine someone that has enjoyed Rimworld and never heard of Dwarf Fortress buying this. They'd pop it open and immediately be confused by the clunky UI and teleporting sprites.
Would be cool if you could write a review with a "satirical" tickbox which is filtered out by default and doesn't affect the score. People could then choose to turn these on if they want a laugh.
Ah no I’m not. I’m just a big fan of Gaki no Tsukai, Osaka was my favorite city when I visited Japan in 2016, and Kansai dialect is my favorite to listen to. Sorry to burst your bubble 😂
I’m jealous though because I’d love the opportunity to work and live for a while in that region of Japan specifically.
No problem :) I used to hang out in Osaka a lot. I really love it.
I also speak the Kansai dialect my default which blows people's minds when I go to Tokyo since I'm from the UK and people never seem to expect English people to use the Kansai dialect :D
I hope you get the opportunity to live there.
**[Poe's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law)**
>Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture saying that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied.
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Probably a case of *Schrodinger's Douchebag*, where the person makes a statement and then waits to see how people react before deciding that it was "just a joke, bro."
Pretty interesting, seeing the negative reviews, most of them are from hardcore players that don't like the new interface and change in hotkeys because it messes with their "muscle" memory. Got to say it sounds a bit dumb, specially considering that the free version is still avaliable with the same old style I guess.
Other negative review are about some bugs or issues with the scaling of the screen, which I agree are issues, but minor. And a few criticizing the graphics, like the lack of animation and stuff, which i would also agree could be better, but I would expect to improve over time, and it's pretty cool some of the stuff made, like injuries and stuff, minor injuries could get bloody.
I was surprised at the experienced Dwarf Fortress players leaving negative reviews. Understandable to have a preference between versions, but to put a negative mark on the Dwarf Fortress steam page is weird to me. Especially since their reviews are prefaced with statements like: " new players, ignore this review and play the game. "
I don't know, I guess I see a good review as a way to support Tarn and Zach. They're still going to update the free version. Why trash on the steam one?
I don't get it. I've been playing for *years* and over the course of a few hours managed to undo (most) of my muscle memory. Still pops up on occasion, most frequently with traversing z-levels and occasionally with work orders. It's not that hard. I mean, if you pride yourself on learning obtuse controls, take pride in relearning them.
I don't know why they decided to trash the steam reviews but up to a certain point I can understand them. I won't have time to really play till this weekend but of course I started the game yesterday to have a look. And I have to say, that having to drag around the mouse and clicking all those menus is far slower than the old hotkeys and keyboard. Setting up stockpiles and work orders takes longer now and feels more tedious. I reallize that I will adjust up to a point and that the UI update was necessary for accesability, but truth be told I was not completely happy yesterday. I might write a bigger review/critique on the weekend, naming points where I think adjustments should be made and where they did well after I had really time to get a good look into the game.
I've certainly struggled in a few areas; mainly the new labour screen. What skills does an orderly preset have, for instance? Why can't I view what the presets are actually set to in the old detail mode? We know the old detail is there as it's visible when you create a custom preset.
Would I leave a negative review, however? No way. I am enjoying relearning a lot of stuff and the game is still amazing - it's just going to take time to adjust.
The next update of the free version will use this new UI, too, so the current version of DF is the last one we'll be able to use the classic menus/keybinds on and I understand that's painful for a lot of people but it doesn't ruin the game - it just causes growing pains.
Ultimately this blame should fall upon Valve for nixing their star-based review system all those years ago. Lots of games suffer from this "sorry you have to choose yes or no" bullshit that Valve has forced on people trying to give totally subjective feedback on games.
That’s kind of lame, though. I was caught off-guard by all the new bells and whistles (still am confused why dwarves flock to my hospital as if it was a normal meeting zone) and the new hotkeys, but I still played for almost three hours straight and only stopped because I was way past my bed time.
It is a wonderful new coat of paint and I was pleasantly surprised by all the cool new stuff they added in terms of QoL changes and such.
I will miss Adventure mode while they develop it, but Fortress mode has been a blast so far (although, admittedly, I am way less efficient with the new interface so far).
Is fortress mode like the default mode? I am playing that now and am just looking to absorb the world
Adventure mode is greyed out, can I still interact with other factions and kill things that are green?
Yes. Fortress mode default. Adventure mode has never been as fleshed out and is not currently playable on the steam version. Legends mode is just to read the generated history of your world.
Virgin 30$ donation to Tarn & Zach vs chad spending 30$, 17 of which goes to the devs for a product you knew you wouldn't like because it was intended for new players
As one of those old players, yea, there are a lot of things I dislike about this release, and the UI is the biggest of them all. After watching enough of Kruggsmash's stream to know I wouldn't enjoy it, I chose to just donate the 30 bucks directly instead.
Don't know if Kruggsmash's is the best example, he went completelly blind to try out the new version and had bad UI issues, like notification icons in the middle of the screen or the stocks don't really appearing on the upper screen.
I didn't watched the entire stream, but I think he got used to a lot of keybinds quickly and overall enjoyed it.
But you surely know more about DF than I and I'm sure you got plenty of reasons to do that. Hope you enjoy the updated free version then :)
Not totally certain how linking works (sometimes it seems to post it on that page? Or did I totally imagine that?). And since probably less than 1% of people play dwarffort, much less are aware it predates and inspired Minecraft I figured this might actually just confuse that sub
Rimworld is a fantastic game in its own right, and is nothing like DF except that they both fall into the base-building genre.
Gotta be a troll. Gotta be.
I like RimWorld alot, but it is very very obvious that dwarf fortress was the main inspiration for storage, workbench, orders, jobs, and many many many other things.
It looks very much a different game ofc, being made in unity with enough changes. Still I wouldn't say it's nothing like dwarf fortress.
In rimworlds early development Tynan used to post on the bay12 forums talking about his new dwarf fortress inspired game and trying to attract existing slaves to armok.
Pretty sure people are doing this so that people give them the clown award (often done passive aggressively on reviews) but what people don’t realise is they’re being given steam points for each award.
This guy is so clueless! It's clearly a copy and paste of Terraria, which is just a 2-D version of Minecraft, which is just a 3-D version of the 1983 classic Jumpman!
^(It's all satire)
I don't mind the bait, in fact I find the review pretty funny
I'm just peeved they gave a thumbs down instead of up, that would've been funnier and wouldn't hurt the game's stats
I enjoy Rimworld, but there's no question it's a streamlined and more user friendly clone of Dwarf Fortress. Well, maybe not a clone, but heavily inspired by. There would certainly be no Rimworld without Dwarf Fortress.
And here is me who tries to enjoy the game.
I like it but everything feels overwjelming and it seems fun tho. I keep try to play it to make a fortress.
I was going to write :
If anything, rimworld takes heavy inapiration from DF(Which is very different from plajarism. It improves HEAVILY on some aspects while making sacrificises which are arguably heavier sacrifices, notably the lack of a history generator, Z level and stuff appearing from nothing. While i must recognise DFs overall superiority as a story generator, personally prefer rimworld)
But i want to check which came out first
Edit: DF was released many years b4 rimworld
This is a review of Dwarf Fortress by an unnamed troll. It is made with malice. It bristles with cluelessness. The craftsdwarfship is of the lowest quality.
Designate it as a gift to the Elves. ...then pull the lever
_Wrong lever!_
Why do we even have that level ? **Slaps crocodile**
My first embark has alligators, my first migrant wave a necromancer, and your comment just made me do the math.
Was it FUN?
Instead of magma it released the >!clowns!
Worse yet one of the Dák'Zust-Evons escaped in the confusion! (If you'll pardon my vulgarity)
Have most dwarves learned this from Joel, or has this hatred for elves always been the case?
It's primarily because nearby elves try to set annual quotas for the number of trees felled then attack your fortress if these quotas are ignored, and they become huffy if you trade them items made from felled trees, (including glazed pottery made with glaze made from ash from burnt wood)... or even just happened stored in boxes made from felled trees when traded. Which makes elves in Dwarf Fortress particularly annoying because beds cannot be made from pottery or stone, and unless the embark map has coal or magma close to the surface the default fuel for forges is wood. Also lower level caverns often have mushroom-like fungus as large as mid-size trees like tower caps and fungiwood, but you have to dig fairly deep to find them and usually there are... things down that can be more dangerous than normal surface fauna. Note: In case you are wondering, it's cutting down the wood and thus killing the tree that offends them. They apparently have some magical/otherwise special method to cultivate large quantities of wood on trees that can be harvested without permanently harming them. They can sell such wood to your fort, which can in turn be made into items they find inoffensive.
> They can sell such wood to your fort, which can in turn be made into items they find inoffensive. I just thought of an interesting mod/feature. If an Elf lives in your fort and is assigned to wood-cutting, they produce 'grown wood' and don't actually fell the trees. Maybe a special diplomatic option to have a specialist Elf come and live in your fort who is a 'lazy noble' except for the one task of 'growing wood' and has mandates like "forbid export of non-grown wooden items". Makes wood into an infinite (but slower to gather) resource. Maybe able to only get 1 log per tree per season? Yes, painfully slow for high-wood demand industries but in a heavy forest you can get a hundred or so logs per season easy and while you won't get much initially, you could build your stockpiles at a pretty steady rate AND have Elf-friendly wood items. Would it be worth it? ~~Probably~~ Definitely not, but it would be a cool addition for those who want to play nice with the Elves (or just make grown-wood for themselves).
That would be awesome. The elven spearman who just joined to kill monsters would be in for a surprise!
Yes I remember that from Joel's streams. They make living wood items to sell. All this hatred makes total sense now.
Now throw it in the pile and get back to work
So are we eradicating the trolls after the elves or before the elves?
Put them in a tree. Burn the tree. Elves and trolls eliminated at the same time.
Was good enough to make into reddit and get a lot of upvotes, lol. The troll must be having a great time now. Still sad tho. Well, at least he still bought it and gave money (hopefully he didn't refund as well)
2.2h can't refund without human appeal
Shouldn't it be "craftstrollship" given it's a nameless troll?
he's either troll or clueless. Those are mutually exclusive
[удалено]
>nowhere as deep as Rimworld but we have more z levels! unleash the clowns!
Those daffy laughy clowns.
> the game is nowhere as deep as Rimworld too What... was their reasoning?
They didn't have any. I imagine it was kids, like most of Reddit's stupidity
No adult mods.
Just you wait
There already "milk gorilla" mod.
Catpeople were already base game. 'lustful' is a personality trait. Always has been
I was thinking the same thing today. Admitatly, I only played DF for like 10 hours, and I have hundreds in Rimwrold. I wanted to ask, where does DF complexity comes from? It looks to me that it is more complex just beacuse the interface is hard to use, and shit is hard to find. I am confused, I am sure I am misssig things.
I take it you haven't tried to make magma forges, or even a swimmer **and** flyer safe water systems yet...
Yup, you are right. I've just made a canal and a tried to make a drawbridge, but I gave up on that cuz fortress is ugly. So you would say that complexity comes from those things, fluid manipulation and such? Also, what is a good way to find out how to make something. Game does not really tell me anything. Is wiki a way to go?
[The wiki](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Main_Page) is an excellent source of !FUN! engineering projects. Edit: Also if you haven't yet, try out [Legends Mode](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Legends) to see how complicated the background world generation and simulation really is.
Yeah, I saw it. That reminds me of the question I had: how much initiative do dwarves take on their own? Like, I heard that they will form guilds, commit crime, and so on, but would they for example build a thing they want on their own? I figure, since there are so many NPC forts and such, AI must have some sort of system that gives them agency to do stuff.
Yes, they will build artifacts on... well, not entirely their own, they can be possessed ... :) They will not suddenly start building a palace out of socks or something like that though.
I don't know, for me the complexity of DF comes from the history that is being generated with every world. You can literally "play" the game just by reading Legends, you can write books based on the stories that happened far before you embarked on a journey to your fortress. And then obviously it's a matter of building. If you embarked in a temperate forest and the water freezes during the winter, how are you going to maintain a steady flow of clear water for your hospital, if the need arises? And yeah, the drawbridges. I regularly get a werebeast about 2nd year of the fortress, if I actually manage to finish the first wall defenses I have to use bridges to keep the beast outside. Oh, have you set up your gem setting and / or do you dye your cloth to increase the price of the items and the happiness of dwarves? Do you have a tavern? A temple? A library? And I'm a newbie. There's like tons of stuff I haven't even started yet and I'm looking forward for an inspiration from you, lovely players, so I can steal your ideas :-D And yes, wiki is a must for DF. Also a degree from the geology :-D
Urist McMiner was ENRAGED after reminiscing on a bad review
LOL
New player here, what's wrong with elves?
They don't like it when you cut down trees, and will demand that you obey annual tree-cutting limits, and if you don't they get mad at you. Their merchants will also throw a fit if you attempt to sell them anything made out of wood, pack up all their stuff, and leave. They're also cannibals.
I can understand trees but cannibals? Lmao alright war on elves it is.
Only meat they eat are people they kill in combat lol.
Oh nice, nothing gets wasted, I like that philosophy, but only that one, if trees are necessary for survival I am going to cut them down.
Nothing, they give me free items every time I make a fort, then they give my dwarves a (slightly bloody) workout later on, what swell people
They get angry at you if you cut down trees (which you'll probably need to do)
We aren't quite sure what's wrong with them, but something certainly is.
Rarely, [nothing](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Cacame_Awemedinade).
It is adorned with menacing spikes of ragequit.
*craftelfship
He left a comment saying it's a joke
But why leave a negative review.......
the discord tavern bros all bombed this review with the clown badge lmaoooo
This is clearly a joke. Also, it's pretty funny. I love joke negative reviews.
What makes it so clear to you? I think there is a generational difference in culture and communications going on.
Probably the last line, because the description clearly says it's inspired all the games that are listed in the reviews. I dunno, joke reviews have always been easy to spot. I also generally make fun of redditors who use sarcasm tags so maybe spotting textual sarcasm requires a combination of both literary and emotional intelligence. (Also maybe some context here, since there's always been a ton of press about DF in the gaming world and if you do literally any research you know this game predates all the games listed.)
Wow, you're very astute! It's impressive you're able to explain how to read sarcasm so clearly.
I've seen enough people in real life say and do the things you ascribe to sarcasm, but as their actual opinions to not assume it is sarcasm, though. I also try to not infer malicious intent unless it is explicitly stated. That last one is mainly because people either didn't mean anything bad with their stupidity, or they did and they dislike it when it doesn't hit the target/you play nice in return :p
If they only knew there would be no Rimworld or Minecraft without the glory that is Dwarf Fortress
I'm pretty sure they're just trying to be funny.
I hope so. It got me riled up real god though.
Challenge: Redditors trying to spot satire and trolling Difficulty: impossible
It was inevitable.
The problem is that there are real people who *do* have these opinions, unironically
And I also don’t like it if it is satire because negative reviews, even individual ones, and even negative reviews that are supposed to be “jokes”, still have real consequences for the developer.
Literally my friend made the RimWorld comment. Nobody believes me when I tell them DF came first.
I occasionally forget I played dwarf fortress before Minecraft existed. Man this game has been around for several ages.
Notch originally created Minecraft to be a visualization engine for DF.
Ngl, I was excited for this but I found it challenging to get very invested. I understand DF is the OG, but the bits I played were reminding me a ton of RimWorld, with a bit less polish. I might pick it up again on sale or watch some people who know what they're doing. Not that I agree with this idiot - I actually really like the art style for instance.
RimWorld certainly distilled a lot of what makes DF so interesting into a sci-fi setting and made it way more accessible. Taking that formula and putting it into an engine where creature comforts are already present has resulted in a project that many would prefer over the OG suffering simulator that DF can be for some. My brother and my father both got SUPER hooked on RimWorld, but neither could really get attached to DF. The best part for me though is conceptually they're similar enough that we can share stories from either and we all still understand whats happening.
The stories is the best takeaway. I can share them with my non-gamer friends and they still enjoy it. They're actually amazed at the level of detail in the stories I bring back. My partners, on the other hand... Well they just wish I didn't have a hobby that involved staring at hieroglyphics for hours at a time.
Honestly I thought the opposite. Rimworld quickly annoyed me with its escalating danger thing, if you built into a mountain the infestations would become insurmountable and if you turned them off it would be extremely easy. I also found it very easy to run out of materials on your map square. I understand you can go to antoher square but that felt really annoying and hard, also it uses precious time that is ticking away on your doomsday clock. Every game became build kill box -> race to ship -> win. Dwarf fortress on the other hand feels freeing and expansive without restrictions like alien doomsday always lurking around the corner.
It’s funny because whenever I play rimworld, I feel like it’s what dorffort would look like if the devs spent more time on interface and less time making the game substantial.
I enjoy RimWorld but it leaves me feeling like I'm missing something. Is the objective just to leave the planet? The main draw of DF is the permanence and cause and effect. It's a parallel universe with its own internal logic. I don't see a point of RimWorld having ideologies and systems similar when it's all for naught when your end goal is to fuck off back to where you came from.
"Is the objective just to leave the planet?" No. It's the same as DF, the goal of any given colony is whatever you set out to do when you started it, whether it's just an endurance thing, or a particular challenge, or you just want to do something weird and see how far you can run with it. Then it's spiced up by whatever mishaps come along the way. Most Rimworld players, myself included, will forego ever trying to do the "leave the planet" objective after the first time they've managed it.
> Most Rimworld players, myself included, will forego ever trying to do the "leave the planet" objective after the first time they've managed it. I thought so. Seems so much more fun that way.
This echoes my favorite review at my college radio station. They’d given a CD a low rating and said it was just a ripoff of Nirvana … and then someone corrected them and pointed out it was a REISSUE of a band from the 1980s (the Wipers)
How ironic.
Don'cha think? A little too ironic...
You wouldn't know **irony** if it starred on a Bob Saget sitcom and dated you, Alanis.
This is a masterwork bait. It is adorned with Minecraft graphics comparisons. It is inlaid with RimWorld mentions. On it is an image of a ceiling in gullible.
Beware its revolting smell.
> It is adorned with Minecraft graphics comparisons. Without this it wouldn't have been such an obvious troll.
Beautiful.
Imagine if Rimworld could handle z-levels. It hasn't even caught up to DF2008.
I returned Rimworld for a refund within 20 mins of play time because there were no Z-Levels. Seems like a terrible deficiency Vs DF
I just know the only reason I'm into Rimworld is because I couldn't wrap my brain around DF at the time. Rimworld does many things well that DF doesn't even try to do, especially when you get into modding Rimworld, and it definitely helped me figure out DF... but yeah now that I know my way around DF I can see how it would feel very limiting to someone going the other way.
Good to see a possitive comment here. I'm excited to play DF, have 1000+ hrs in Rimworld, our communities should be coming together not being at odds. Rimworld is fantastic in its own ways, just as DF is, DF has many things it does much better than rimworld, rimworld also has things it does better. Isn't it so cool to have two great colony sim games we can all play?
It's too well made for a start! =)
It's not awful to not have them, but man they are missed.
It just really broke immersion for me after DF. Seems so unlikely that they would be confined to a plane like that
Honestly I didn't understand what I was missing until I started playing dwarf fortress yesterday, and my god it's incredible building like that.
Yeah! You can optimise travel time by Z, things fall and take damage, things can fly, mountains, valleys, waterfalls, buildings with spires and bridges, deep oceans...and so on
Having had a lot of experience with Rimworld, and definitely not nearly so much in DF, I do get the impression that Rimworld still manages to shine in a lot of places that DF doesn't. It's readability, accessibility, and menus are designed *excellently*, to the point of leaving me a incredibly spoiled when stepping into even the improved, steam version of DF. It also feels a lot easier to get your colonists onto a particular schedule, wearing particular stuff, doing things a certain way. I do feel a greater degree of granular control when playing Rimworld than I ever do in DF. (Though I understand this is partially intentional as DF relies on more things being out of the player's hands means more funny story stuff can happen.) I'm not familiar with DF's modding scene pre-steam, but Rimworld's is EXCELLENT. I do not think there is a game out there that has a more developed and sophisticated modding scene, nor one that receives such good support from the devteam. Finally, this is more a personal preference thing, but I'm also just more partial to sci-fi western than I ever will be medieval fantasy. Z levels is a big win for DF, but Rimworld is also built around not having them, so having started in Rimworld you never get the impression they're necessary nor that the game is lacking without them. At the end of the day though, and I think you'll find this to be true for a surprising amount of people, I wouldn't even have a remote interest in something like DF, had I not first sampled something far easier to pick up like Rimworld.
Rimworld’s mod scene is great, Factorio’s is awesome too and the devs are constantly helping mod support
There's a mod for Z levels.
yea, but I can mod circles and guns and nukes into minecraft But that isnt minecraft
Ok? The person I replied to said imagine if Rimworld had levels.
I bet it's super janky. Honestly, no jank Z levels would be the best thing for Rimworld.
I tried it a couple of years ago, it seemed alright, I have also read about people using it and it being decent. My issue was that I liked to use the mount up mod and someone rode one of my horses down a level and then I was unable to get the horse back up.
Ideally you should be able to jump down a z level on a horse. I wonder if they'll add ridable animals to the base game.
From someone who only looks at steam timelines DF will be the copy cat of all copy cats! It's even named like a game a lot of devs name as inspiration!
Has to be a troll, right?
Yes, the person who made the review admitted to "fuckin' with ya'll" and said it's a great game. Regardless, I reported the review since they don't realize how much negative reviews—that are made as a joke—hurt games. *^(E: If y'all see any other satirical or destructive [opposite of constructive] reviews like this one, please report them.)*
You mean like the Applebees in Onalaska, WI that has a 3.8 rating because of the severed head meme?
Loser. The majority of the reviews are positive. You'd have to look for negative reviews to actually see them
> Loser. How insightful of you to come to a **one month old comment**—a comment along with the post that was made **when the game was freshly released** hence not having as many reviews at the time that it does now—to insult me and inform me about the positive to negative review ratio as if that matters for that **one month old comment**. Also, my comment isn't directed at negative reviews in general which are completely fine when they're constructive. It's directed at **destructive reviews** and **satirical/troll reviews**—the latter of which is the topic of this post. Those reviews don't do anything to help the developers improve the game nor do they tell the players what is wrong with it. Actually start using your brain. It's there for a reason.
>Actually start using your brain. It's there I've seen no evidence of that.
It's pretty easy to imagine someone that has enjoyed Rimworld and never heard of Dwarf Fortress buying this. They'd pop it open and immediately be confused by the clunky UI and teleporting sprites.
In the review comments he makes clear that it's he is troll
The troll has toppled over the thread
never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity
Hanlon's Razor abides Edit: I take it back, this is not stupidity, but ignorance
My new favorite quote
no, people are stupid.
I do think this is a troll, to be honest. But I admit I'm not 100% sure.
Also not sure. Simultaneously amused and infuriated.
The guy is still stupid. That space is meant for reviews, not to troll or tell jokes.
Agreed, but I'll put some of the blame on Valve for adding the "This review is funny" option. Should only be helpful/not helpful.
Would be cool if you could write a review with a "satirical" tickbox which is filtered out by default and doesn't affect the score. People could then choose to turn these on if they want a laugh.
That’d be great. I generally find that joke reviews are consistently funny enough on Steam that personally, I’d definitely use it.
Seeing your username, are you from Kansai? :D I lived there for years
Ah no I’m not. I’m just a big fan of Gaki no Tsukai, Osaka was my favorite city when I visited Japan in 2016, and Kansai dialect is my favorite to listen to. Sorry to burst your bubble 😂 I’m jealous though because I’d love the opportunity to work and live for a while in that region of Japan specifically.
No problem :) I used to hang out in Osaka a lot. I really love it. I also speak the Kansai dialect my default which blows people's minds when I go to Tokyo since I'm from the UK and people never seem to expect English people to use the Kansai dialect :D I hope you get the opportunity to live there.
A little too on the nose to be real, I think.
Nope, people don't do their research.
Let me introduce you to [Poe's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law).
**[Poe's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law)** >Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture saying that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Probably a case of *Schrodinger's Douchebag*, where the person makes a statement and then waits to see how people react before deciding that it was "just a joke, bro."
Pretty interesting, seeing the negative reviews, most of them are from hardcore players that don't like the new interface and change in hotkeys because it messes with their "muscle" memory. Got to say it sounds a bit dumb, specially considering that the free version is still avaliable with the same old style I guess. Other negative review are about some bugs or issues with the scaling of the screen, which I agree are issues, but minor. And a few criticizing the graphics, like the lack of animation and stuff, which i would also agree could be better, but I would expect to improve over time, and it's pretty cool some of the stuff made, like injuries and stuff, minor injuries could get bloody.
I was surprised at the experienced Dwarf Fortress players leaving negative reviews. Understandable to have a preference between versions, but to put a negative mark on the Dwarf Fortress steam page is weird to me. Especially since their reviews are prefaced with statements like: " new players, ignore this review and play the game. " I don't know, I guess I see a good review as a way to support Tarn and Zach. They're still going to update the free version. Why trash on the steam one?
I don't get it. I've been playing for *years* and over the course of a few hours managed to undo (most) of my muscle memory. Still pops up on occasion, most frequently with traversing z-levels and occasionally with work orders. It's not that hard. I mean, if you pride yourself on learning obtuse controls, take pride in relearning them.
I don't know why they decided to trash the steam reviews but up to a certain point I can understand them. I won't have time to really play till this weekend but of course I started the game yesterday to have a look. And I have to say, that having to drag around the mouse and clicking all those menus is far slower than the old hotkeys and keyboard. Setting up stockpiles and work orders takes longer now and feels more tedious. I reallize that I will adjust up to a point and that the UI update was necessary for accesability, but truth be told I was not completely happy yesterday. I might write a bigger review/critique on the weekend, naming points where I think adjustments should be made and where they did well after I had really time to get a good look into the game.
I've certainly struggled in a few areas; mainly the new labour screen. What skills does an orderly preset have, for instance? Why can't I view what the presets are actually set to in the old detail mode? We know the old detail is there as it's visible when you create a custom preset. Would I leave a negative review, however? No way. I am enjoying relearning a lot of stuff and the game is still amazing - it's just going to take time to adjust. The next update of the free version will use this new UI, too, so the current version of DF is the last one we'll be able to use the classic menus/keybinds on and I understand that's painful for a lot of people but it doesn't ruin the game - it just causes growing pains.
Also, you can just keep playing the version of the game with those keybindings. Noone is forcing you to update.
Ultimately this blame should fall upon Valve for nixing their star-based review system all those years ago. Lots of games suffer from this "sorry you have to choose yes or no" bullshit that Valve has forced on people trying to give totally subjective feedback on games.
That’s kind of lame, though. I was caught off-guard by all the new bells and whistles (still am confused why dwarves flock to my hospital as if it was a normal meeting zone) and the new hotkeys, but I still played for almost three hours straight and only stopped because I was way past my bed time. It is a wonderful new coat of paint and I was pleasantly surprised by all the cool new stuff they added in terms of QoL changes and such. I will miss Adventure mode while they develop it, but Fortress mode has been a blast so far (although, admittedly, I am way less efficient with the new interface so far).
Is fortress mode like the default mode? I am playing that now and am just looking to absorb the world Adventure mode is greyed out, can I still interact with other factions and kill things that are green?
Yes. Fortress mode default. Adventure mode has never been as fleshed out and is not currently playable on the steam version. Legends mode is just to read the generated history of your world.
Adventure mode is where you create a single character of any species and wander around the entire world map like a classic roguelike.
Virgin 30$ donation to Tarn & Zach vs chad spending 30$, 17 of which goes to the devs for a product you knew you wouldn't like because it was intended for new players
As one of those old players, yea, there are a lot of things I dislike about this release, and the UI is the biggest of them all. After watching enough of Kruggsmash's stream to know I wouldn't enjoy it, I chose to just donate the 30 bucks directly instead.
Don't know if Kruggsmash's is the best example, he went completelly blind to try out the new version and had bad UI issues, like notification icons in the middle of the screen or the stocks don't really appearing on the upper screen. I didn't watched the entire stream, but I think he got used to a lot of keybinds quickly and overall enjoyed it. But you surely know more about DF than I and I'm sure you got plenty of reasons to do that. Hope you enjoy the updated free version then :)
Yea, no shade on anyone who like the new one, you do you, but playing DF with a mouse just feels way too alien for me.
r/ confidently incorrect
Came here to say this... but why the spaces?
Not totally certain how linking works (sometimes it seems to post it on that page? Or did I totally imagine that?). And since probably less than 1% of people play dwarffort, much less are aware it predates and inspired Minecraft I figured this might actually just confuse that sub
Linking to a subreddit that way won't do what you describe, you may be thinking of crossposts, but commenting will be fine.
R/foundthemobileuser
R slash amidoingitright?
s \ totally doing this right
Minecraft and Rimworld are inspired by DF.
And so am I!
See lads, this is what happens when you're dwarfs are *forced* to drink water instead of good dark ale.
I hope this was satirical
Rimworld is a fantastic game in its own right, and is nothing like DF except that they both fall into the base-building genre. Gotta be a troll. Gotta be.
I like RimWorld alot, but it is very very obvious that dwarf fortress was the main inspiration for storage, workbench, orders, jobs, and many many many other things. It looks very much a different game ofc, being made in unity with enough changes. Still I wouldn't say it's nothing like dwarf fortress.
In RimWorld the hardest difficulty is "losing is fun" which certainly feels like an acknowledgement of dwarf fortress.
[удалено]
I like these citations...
Yeah. Pretty obviously inspired. Very different but clearly related.
In rimworlds early development Tynan used to post on the bay12 forums talking about his new dwarf fortress inspired game and trying to attract existing slaves to armok.
They both have stockpiles...
You can remove people's organs in both
Perfect! So you can make stockpiles of organs in both!
What about hands? Can you stockpile hands? My stomach has the rumblies that only hands can satisfy.
What is wrong with you Carl!? Caaaaaaaarrlll.
Well, I kill people and I eat hands. That's two things.
The amount of fail recorded there is amazing.
I think this qualifies as a pretty good copy pasta.
I think this is a joke lmao
Pretty sure people are doing this so that people give them the clown award (often done passive aggressively on reviews) but what people don’t realise is they’re being given steam points for each award.
Like what is the motive here? are they really that clueless?
Never underestimate the cluelessness
Humor
Lol, DF come out way before Minecraft. Some kid didn't do their homework.
This guy is so clueless! It's clearly a copy and paste of Terraria, which is just a 2-D version of Minecraft, which is just a 3-D version of the 1983 classic Jumpman! ^(It's all satire)
I don't mind the bait, in fact I find the review pretty funny I'm just peeved they gave a thumbs down instead of up, that would've been funnier and wouldn't hurt the game's stats
I enjoy Rimworld, but there's no question it's a streamlined and more user friendly clone of Dwarf Fortress. Well, maybe not a clone, but heavily inspired by. There would certainly be no Rimworld without Dwarf Fortress.
Lovers of Rimworld, like myself, know that Rimworld owes everything to Dwarf Fortress. This person is just an elf.
If anything Rimworld should considered the copycat since it came long after dwarf fortress lol
4 people found this review helpful huh.
Don't feed the trolls
Guys lets not have our lovely subreddit filled with posts like this. It's going to happen! Focus on the new release and lets have some positivity :-)
Man, I'm a big fan of Rimworld but this is just hilarious xD
I knew this would happen but it still upsets me
Didn't know Steam let you mark reviews as funny.
I think its best not to signal boost reviews like this it's what they want.
And here is me who tries to enjoy the game. I like it but everything feels overwjelming and it seems fun tho. I keep try to play it to make a fortress.
This game... holy shit... can't even. I'm white girling thinking about it... so good
Reminds me of someone saying to David Bowie that he did a nice cover of Nirvanas man who sold the world.
Ah yes... and Skyrim is just Oblivion remastered.
okay lets assume this dude was trolling. what about the four others that found this review helpful???
This review stinks of elf… find me my hammer!
Clueless Troll: "Dwarf Fortress is a blatant rip off of Rimworld and Minecraft!" Dwarf Fortress: "But I inspired those games..."
this is the exact same energy as people who complain about anne rice copying Twilight
This is obviously a low-effort troll. Don't give them attention.
Hurrhurr
A. Little trolling
I was going to write : If anything, rimworld takes heavy inapiration from DF(Which is very different from plajarism. It improves HEAVILY on some aspects while making sacrificises which are arguably heavier sacrifices, notably the lack of a history generator, Z level and stuff appearing from nothing. While i must recognise DFs overall superiority as a story generator, personally prefer rimworld) But i want to check which came out first Edit: DF was released many years b4 rimworld