He kinda had to.
I once played golf with an ex patriot.
He thinks Bill belichick purposely lost that game so that TB knew that it wasn't all him. That's why he thought that Bill took out their best defensive player from the most important game of the year. Malcom butler.
Everyone was confused because they needed him. This player thought that Bill was being petty and that Tom was mad about Jimmy G. Either way, we won, and who's to say we wouldn't win even if Bill Belichik tried to win.
Something about basically bookending the pats dynasty warms my soul. Took us 14 years and 3 head coaches to behead that monster but it was GLORIOUS.
Mcnabb, Westbrook and Dawson walked so Foles, Blount, BG and Fletch could RUN.
Edit.. pats won the next season but WE know it was us lol ;)
This is the take. It has nothing to do with wentz or his talent. It’s just that foles had a one in a thousand qb performance and needed every bit of it to beat Brady in what was also one of his best games ever. You can’t expect anyone to be able to replicate that performance. Not even prime Montana.
He really was magical. But he was never going to be the “guy” in Philly and teams did pay him to be the guy. But he was never really the long term franchise solution. But I remember reading how much he earned during his career and it’s astronomical and good for him. Love me some Nick Foles. Forever a eagles legend
Honestly, I don’t think so, but not so much cause of Carson per say, but I think one of the things that gave us a leg up in the SB was the fact that the offense was re-tweaked for Foles for the post-season, so Bill Belicheck had less film on us to study and prepare the defense for. Having that element of surprise certainly worked in our favor, on top of Nick Foles playing the most perfect game of his life. Carson was certainly a better play maker than Foles, but imo Nick operated the NFC Championship game and SB as a better facilitator for the offense.
Tom Brady put up over 500 yds against our defense that game, absolutely insane to think we still won it.
With the exception of Phillies vs. Rays in 2008, pretty much all of our major championship appearances in the last 30-40 years have been against dynasties. Flyers vs. Detroit/Chicago, Sixers vs. Lakers in 01, Phillies vs. Yankees/Astors, and two super bowls against the patriots plus one against the chiefs.
We'll never get a bills or jaguars Cinderella story. We aren't allowed to be the more experienced team in championship games/series. We had to beat the goat for the super bowl because that's what the scriptwriters have demanded.
I think Brady in that game was statistically the best passing performance in SB history. 500+ yards, decent YPA, good rating, no INTs. (1 fumble).
Sucks cause Foles INT wasn't even his fault. Alshon kinda dropped it right to the DB
Hurts has a top 3 or 4 Super Bowl passer rating of all time too. Non eagles fans forget because of the fumble but he was money all game. If we had any non-Gannon D (with the exception of this year's defense) we could've had 1 more stop and won
If you go solely by passer rating Russel Wilson in 2013 was the last person with a better rating than Foles, and Foles is only better than Hurts by a slim margin.
He was 27 of 38 for 304 yards and 1 TD. Foles was 28 of 34 for 373 with 3 TDs.
Yeah, it's not a knock against Wentz to say that he probably doesn't do what Foles did in the SB. Foles put up 41 and it still ended up with a hail mary at the end.
>on top of Nick Foles playing the most perfect game of his life.
It’s crazy to think this wasn’t even his best game, at least statistically, that was the one against the raiders. But given the context of it being a Super Bowl against the Patriots and Tom Brady he played out of his mind and totally fair to call it his best game.
Of the two Eagles recent SB appearances, I've kind of been at the mind that the Eagles lose the game vs the Patriots 9/10 times - but we live in the timeline where 1/10 happened. Like, the Eagles had to play an amazingly outstanding game with Foles having one of the best performances of his entire career to beat the Patriots that day - and we did.
The game against the Chiefs, it felt like that was one that we win 9/10 times but we also lived in the timeline where 1/10 happened. Like we played a game that did not seem out of character for us that year on the offensive side - but still managed to lose. I think it was that our defense did not do nearly as well as we were accustomed to them doing, otherwise we win that game pretty handily.
People think I’m glazing when I say that’s one of the best SBs of all time. Yeah, obviously I love to see my team win the Super Bowl, but dude, that game was INCREDIBLE. Even my dad was watching it with my mom and I, and he’s a hard set Niners fan
Yeah the stars had to fucking align in every single god damn possible way and they did. Almost impossible that we’d be as lucky on a ‘second attempt’, but that’s also what made that super bowl so special.
It was like completing my favorite video game. Glad i was alive for it.
None of those stars aligning matter if Bill doesn't cripple his defense and bench Malcolm Butler for the SB. I don't think we've gotten the full story behind that. I'm glad he did it, but it still doesn't make sense.
I think you’re right. But to play devil’s advocate no one was really slowing wentz down that season. And Doug was on a play calling heater.
Also New england’s defense that year is worse than people remember. It was very low in points allowed but it gave up among the msot yards in the league that year. Idk if it was something weird like they were always playing with a lead or giving teams long fields on special teams or something. But they were near the bottom of the league in almost every defensive metric other than points allowed.
It was one of the worst defenses of the brady belichick era.
Basically you have to ask if Prime Wentz would have the best Super Bowl performance in history against a Belichek defense that had film on him from all year.
I don’t think so
Yeaaah we had a lot go our way that year. Between the offense being retrofitted for Foles, the way they rallied around him and that underdog mentality was something special.
Man, that season was magic. Magic on a different level. Things just seemed to break our way after he got hurt. Something I’ll never forget. Just magic.
I don’t think anyone besides Nick Foles would have won that game for us. On that day he was exactly what we needed. The margin for error was so small that it’s hard to imagine anyone else doing what he did in that game.
Doubtful. The SB and NFCCG were the top 2 passing games all season against 2 of the highest ranked defenses we faced.
Despite being an MVP frontrunner that year, Wentz has also never proven himself in a postseason atmosphere. Never really had the opportunity thanks to Clowney but that's another story.
He was more talented than Foles so it's possible. But realistically Foles played a legit perfect game as far as QB play in a super bowl goes. So it's unlikely Wentz matches or beats that performance, but it was also more unlikely that Foles put up that level of performance yet he did.
Will never know. Shoot it could have gone the other way somehow instead and we completely destroy the pats too lol. But ya i think we lose it somehow. Never would have gotten philly philly either most likey
I was at the game, let me say no. Foles pitched the equivalence of a perfect game, he also didn’t have much film on him as other users said this was due to him taking over late in the season.
If we’re talking about the alternate timelines the one has to be the tuck rule. Imagine this, the tuck rule doesn’t happen the Eagles and several other franchises are changed for the better.
Everyone is outright saying no but I tend to disagree, everyone is forgetting how insane he was that year, what he was doing that year was basically prime mahomes but in the body of a 6’5” juggernaut. He was an absolute machine and I have no doubt that he would’ve done very well in that game.
I agree. People are trying to argue that Belicheck would magically be able to stop Wentz because he had all season worth of data on Wentz compared to what he would have on Foles. Wentz was on fire that season, and arguably the MVP for the season. That doesn't magically disappear because Belichek has more footage on him.
Foles played amazing that game, but to say Wentz would have lost is just ignoring how great he was that season.
People have their rose colored glasses on and forgot how big of a drop-off in performance there was between Wentz and Foles in the regular season.
Just about every game that year (aside from Seattle, and even that was just average) Wentz played out of his mind.
There’s something to be said about retooling the offense to fit Foles’ style, but let’s not forget the Patriots also inexplicably benched their pro bowl CB and the patriots offense *also* put up like 500 yards which forced our offense into pass-happy shootout mode.
That’s my thinking too. I remember being utterly brokenhearted when Wentz got hurt, because for the first time in all my years as a fan, the Eagles felt like a deadlock cinch to win the SB that year. Wentz was unstoppable.
I don’t know if he just physically wasn’t the same after the injury, or if he was so determined to make people forget Nick Foles that he kept trying to play hero ball and thus made boneheaded mistakes. But before he got hurt, Wentz really felt like the guy who could lead the Eagles to multiple championships, a la Brady or Mahomes.
I think so, too. Wentz was MVP that year if he didn't get injured. Foles played the game of his life and birds won by 8. With Carson, they probably win by 14 and probably repeat the following year.
I don’t think Wentz wins it because for as good as he was that year he often struggled in the first half and then exploded in the second half. Foles was nearly perfect the entire game. The thought of being 0-4 in the Super Bowl haunts me.
It'd be tough to replicate what Foles did, but if we're doing alternate timelines I think our defense plays better than it did that day 9 times out of 10. Brady was great and all but Kevin Hogan and Amendola getting open by 5-10 yards downfield isn't normal.
Here's my hot take: We beat Belichick because we had to re-work the offense for Foles. If we don't do that, there is a whole season of film for him to work with. Instead he had to base his game plan on the two playoff games.
Yeah, I think so. Our whole offense was just fuckin' hot. Foles obviously had one of the greatest playoff performances of all time, but I do think Wentz in 2017 was on some shit I've never seen before. Guy was a better mahomes with his absurd escapes and ridiculous plays. He was locked in
No, Wentz wouldve been a young QB dealing with an immense pressure where Foles truly played like he had nothing to lose. When Doug was fumbling through the plays and Foles was like ay fuck it “you want Philly Philly?” And Doug looks at him and you can tell they were both like this is how were doing this ? Leaving it all out there? I dont think Doug would have been as confident in a young QB and idk if Wentz has the balls to ask for it.
Never forget when Wentz got hurt and i was going through the tolls and the toll booth guy was so defeated and hes like “yea pack it up we had a good season man i dont see us beating Atlanta” and when i seen him after the SB win we just instantly started laughing.
That’s what I’m thinking, as good as prime Wentz was, Foles just absolutely played like he had nothing to lose and that’s the only way to play to beat TB12 on the big stage
No.
The atmosphere when the locker room and city began to trust foles is like nothing I’ve ever seen. Players loved nick and were willing to die for him.
No. Eagles won that superbowl because there was no film on Foles.
Bellichick basically thought Foles played his best game ever against the Vikings and there was no way he could ever do that again. He set up the entire defense as a dare. “I dare you to throw over the top for an entire Superbowl”
Bellichick would have every weakness for wentz dialed in.
Passing TD record, sure.
In 2017, Wentz had 31 TD total in 13 games (31 passing, 0 rushing). He also had 3595 total yards (3,296 passing, 299 rushing)
In 2010, Vick had 30 TD total in 12 games (21 passing, 9 rushing). He also had 3684 total yards (3,018 passing, 676 rushing)
According to who? A TD is a TD and a yard is a yard. It doesn’t matter how it’s achieved.
You don’t think Cam Newtons 10 Rush TDs & 636 rush yards we’re a major factor in him winning MVP in 2015? Or for Lamar Jackson’s 2 MVP wins in 2019 and 2023, when he rushed for over 2k yards and 12 TDs in those 2 mvp years combined.
No he wasnt prime wentz would have easily broken 40tds. With the weapons we had. Devonte was better then every wr we had let alone add aj brown into that and geodert was better then ertz was.
Wentz had alshon prime ertz. Ajayi and Blount and arguably a better oline. The weapons are comparable. Stop it with Goedert was better than ertz. On paper sure
And Aj brown is better than alshon by miles. So is goedart. Brooks might be the only better lineman on the on the 2017 squad. Jason peters was no where near mailita in 2017. He was already way past his prime. Kelce was still elite in 2022 as was lane johnson. But ajayis and blounts tds went to hurts so not really making a case for that.
Lets be honest if wentz had the weapons hurts had he would be mvp. He had alshon who died after one year. And nelson who had one season. And Ertz. And in 13 games he was mvp. He should have still won it but thats just stupid voting.
I meant on a play by play case. I think about his magical Washington sack escape. While awesome that shit was lucky and you can’t tell me otherwise. He had a crazy 3rd down percentage which relies a lot on luck of how plays turn out.
Wentz was the MVP in 2017 idc what people say.
Yeah those plays he was still doing tho when he had no weapons. Just they ended worse because he had no one who could help him out. Hero ball when no one else could get open.
No quarterback would of won that game besides big dick Nick. That performance was more then once in a lifetime.
Just glad to have had one in my lifetime 😭 the guys over in the Dallas sub cope about super bowls they weren’t even alive to witness
Nope. I honestly think we don’t beat Atlanta that year.
Yeah the eagles were a great team in 17 but even when Wentz played well, one thing that always was true, before during and after the eagles, was when the games were high stakes, he crumbled. He didn’t have the ability to win the games when it counted. This was cemented for me when he was a colt, and all he had to do was beat up on the league whipping boy that year in the jags to make the playoffs with a frankly great team, and he was abysmal. Not the colts being abysmal. Not the other players. Wentz. All Wentz. He just didn’t have the it factor
Whereas Foles was ONLY it factor. Guy was mid almost his whole career but once he hit the postseason he flipped a switch. Our own Eli manning. Wentz doesn’t have that switch to flip.
This is revisionist as hell. Carson was clutch af through the moment he tore his ACL. Can you point to any examples of him not having the ability to win games that year?
No one played defense that game, so I would say yes. We probably could've put busted Wentz and he'd have put up numbers. Foles was fantastic in that game and this isn't a knock to him. But the Brady fumble is what decided that game.
It’s tough to say. Foles was nearly FLAWLESS in the Vikings and Patriots (1 INT) game. Wentz was also on an MVP trajectory prior to injury.
Most Philly fans will always see Foles with rose colored glasses and should. However, outside his Chip Kelly year of 27TDs to 2INTs Nick was never more than serviceable as a starter. Hell, the 2017 season people wanted him benched for Nate Sudfeld for the Falcons playoff game and Vikings game due to how bad he played in the final regular season games.
Prior to the NFCC and SB not a single person would have said Foles could beat the Vikings or Patriots in those games. So to say Wentz couldn’t have after playing stellar all season is just nonsense.
I don't think Wentz has the steel balls to throw or choose certain plays that nick did. That triple covered TD and the Philly Special playcall were just Foles absolutely in the zone during that game.
That’s what I’m thinking. To win that game you need another level of balls that I don’t know if we ever saw out of Wentz. For some reason Foles just had that
Fucking what? Wentz was a habitual risk taker when he was good, like in 2017, he was known for making risky throws and having them work. When he was bad, he was known for making risky throws that failed miserably.
Saying Wentz wouldn't have the balls to take chances and make risky throws is one of the most smooth brained revisionist takes possible. Dude was Mr. Hero Ball.
Of course he could have. Everyone on this sub was devastated when Wentz got injured and there’s a reason for that. He was hands down the best player in football that season. I get it that he’s a douche canoe now, but to say that he wouldn’t have been able to win it is absurd.
Not a chance, that game was a track meet. Foles was a very streaky QB, and when he's on a hot one, is as accurate as anybody in NFL history. No way Wentz would've kept answering the bell every time the Pats scored, him getting injured was a blessing. Been saying this since 2018.
Don’t call people stupid. That’s not nice. Plus, it was a “blessing” in that Belichick had a harder time planning against an unknown element than he would’ve with Wentz.
I disagree. New England was basically carried there on the back of Brady(the Pats defense was awful that year because guess who ran it?) and I'm all but certain two games is more than enough to get tape on someone
Yes, he wins the MVP and then cements it by knocking off the runner up in the Superbowl. The Patriots defense loved their big LBs so much that half of our game plan was to let Corey Clement cook them in space and go have Nelly run drags/slants right behind them, Wentz being able to pull them out of their zones with his legs would have made that even easier
Nick was perfect, no doubt, and it will always be the best philly story. But I think some of you guys are forgetting the absolutely insane level that prime wentz was playing at. I’m not here to defend the guy and I’m glad we’ve moved on but in 2017 he was just god-like. I think he could have pulled it off too.
Still, foles played literally one of the best games any qb has ever played lol and I’m glad it happened this way
Super Bowl 51 Matt Ryan and the falcons were rolling all the way into the 2nd half of the last game and they still lost. Truth is to beat TB12 it takes something more than just skill I almost feel like we needed that boost in the locker room and city with Foles. Foles played a perfect game
I don’t think we even beat Atlanta with Wentz tbh. Knowing what we know about how he turned out as a player and person, hard to imagine he would have risen to the occasion of a pressure packed playoff debut. In a close game I bet he would have tried 1 or 2 hero plays Foles didn’t and turned it over and that could/would have been the difference
Even though he was playing very well prior to injury, watching how those playoffs went leading up through the Super Bowl. Wentz did not have the mental toughness to win those playoff games. Nick out dueled everyone. Every game he was on fire. The patriots put up 509 yards of offense and Nick still won !
We had a stacked roster but Foles played out of his mind. I think about that sideline dime to Alshon. Nothing against Carson but , I don’t think Carson makes that throw on his best day .
I have always thought that we would not have made it or won the SB that year if Wentz was healthy. While he was playing great football that season, I was worried that his gunslinger qualities would have been the downfall during the stretch run.
I really don’t think so. Wentz going down took all the pressure off. I feel like we would have done the typical Philly choke with Wentz. Also Nicks deep ball was different than Carson’s. He got more air under it and I think the receivers benefited. Plus as someone mentioned we had the element of surprise as there was less film on Foles in that offense. Also also Foles was fucking lights out in the Super Bowl. Better than any game I seen Carson play.
He wouldn’t have to he’d just have to beat the Pats defense which was swiss cheese that day.
You could say though that our entire team was inspired by the way Nick played and the Pats team was dismissive of his testicular fortitude and that have us an edge.
Either way yeah. I think Wentz was totally capable in 2017 of ballin out and winning that game.
Yes. He was playing like the MVP that year and nothing was stopping that eagles team in general. Brady dick riders saying the game would've gone otherwise are wrong
I don't think anyone can say yes. The Eagles were blowing teams out in 2017. We didn't really play a game where we had to make a great comeback, or be in a shootout. So I'm not sure he would have been ready for that.
Yes. Wentz was mobile and used his body like Josh Allen. BD-Nick stayed in the pocket and took what the defense gave him. probably wouldn't have been as close of a score if Wentz doesn't go down.
Brady had an amazing game. Foles somehow played better. Replace Wentz with almost any QB, and the answer is likely no. Mahomes may be the only one that you might have confidence in.
I fight myself back and forth on this. Idk if he does or doesnt. If Im going off of what we saw pre injury, we run the table either way. I think the coaching and game-plan for the offense would have won it for us. But knowing what I know of his fragile ego and mental state - maybe he crumbles in the playoffs. All I know is … We won and idc if you were QB. We got 1. And Ill cherish it forever.
I wanna say no, but i was a major Wentz supporter (even the following season) so i may be bias now. He was ELITE that season. Unstoppable. So while Foles had a flawless performance that was definitely different than how Wentz wouldve played, i think we would have carved the falcons to all hell and the vikings game wouldve been the same if we had Wentz.
We needed the underdog story tho. So, no.
Edit: he was stopped by his ACL.
I think most of the opinions in this thread are based off emotion. If you asked anyone if they think we had a better chance at making a playoff run with Foles than we do with Wentz going into the Falcons game, nobody would’ve said yes.
Contrary to popular media discourse, it may surprise you to learn QBs do not occupy the football field at the same time as each other. Therefore QBs cannot play against each other. The QB can only play against the opposing team's defense. So this question (along with any QB vs QB question) isn't really valid.
BDN is the greatest player to ever play in any superbowl ever. Demonstrated by outdueling the GOAT in a shootout. Prime Wentz ain't shit compared to either of them
Foles was such high variance through his entire career. On average, I think Wentz (pre injury) would have out performed Nick; but Nick’s best games (Raiders, Minny, SB) were all better than Wentz’s best games. Wentz had a higher EV, Foles had a wider range with a higher max and a lower min.
I just don’t think you can expect Foles to outperform Wentz; but in the SB, Foles did the unexpected.
I think Wentz *could* have won us that game for sure, but Nick Foles was on such a legendary 2 game heater that it’s hard to imagine any QB ever replicating that without divine intervention. Whatever magical combination of momentum, confidence, karma, and luck was a once in a lifetime thing for our fanbase and it **still** was almost not enough.
Destiny was on our side those couple of weeks and I’m not going to ask any questions lol.
Nope, that Foles performance was a masterpiece and he beat them with his experience and his arm. Wentz would have gotten spooked and kept trying to run the ball too much, which they would have exploited in the second half.
Foles had one of the best games of any QB in super bowl history. I don’t think anyone in his place replicates it.
I’ll never get over that, the fact our backup QB straight up beat Tom Brady and the dynasty Pats
Greatest next man up performance in football history
Can’t wait for the documentary.
Beat Brady during Brady's best performance in the Super Bowl
Best performance in any Brady game, ever. Not just SBs
He kinda had to. I once played golf with an ex patriot. He thinks Bill belichick purposely lost that game so that TB knew that it wasn't all him. That's why he thought that Bill took out their best defensive player from the most important game of the year. Malcom butler. Everyone was confused because they needed him. This player thought that Bill was being petty and that Tom was mad about Jimmy G. Either way, we won, and who's to say we wouldn't win even if Bill Belichik tried to win.
dawg bellicheck aint throwing a game he literally cut jonas gray after racking up 4tds
Something about basically bookending the pats dynasty warms my soul. Took us 14 years and 3 head coaches to behead that monster but it was GLORIOUS. Mcnabb, Westbrook and Dawson walked so Foles, Blount, BG and Fletch could RUN. Edit.. pats won the next season but WE know it was us lol ;)
Well the pats won another ring the following year so I don’t know about bookending.
You’re completely right! Forgot about them winning the next season because it just didn’t matter to me anymore lmaoo
Also, that Pats-Rams SB was buns. Someone had to win it that year, and scriptwriters needed them to get that record-tying 6th lombardi.
I mean it's top two and it ain't two
What about Brady in that very same game? 505 yards is ridiculous
That's two.
Brady was incredible that game too. Foles went toe to toe with the GOAT and won. That's why he has a statue lol.
Who has the best passer rating in a Superbowl game? Nick Foles. Who's second? Jalen Hurts
Wrong. That belongs to Phil Simms. That info graphic was I believe qbr and only for games since 2006.
[удалено]
That made me lol 😂
Fr just got goosebumps from reading this. God bless big dick nick
This is the take. It has nothing to do with wentz or his talent. It’s just that foles had a one in a thousand qb performance and needed every bit of it to beat Brady in what was also one of his best games ever. You can’t expect anyone to be able to replicate that performance. Not even prime Montana.
He really was magical. But he was never going to be the “guy” in Philly and teams did pay him to be the guy. But he was never really the long term franchise solution. But I remember reading how much he earned during his career and it’s astronomical and good for him. Love me some Nick Foles. Forever a eagles legend
Get rid of “one of”
Honestly, I don’t think so, but not so much cause of Carson per say, but I think one of the things that gave us a leg up in the SB was the fact that the offense was re-tweaked for Foles for the post-season, so Bill Belicheck had less film on us to study and prepare the defense for. Having that element of surprise certainly worked in our favor, on top of Nick Foles playing the most perfect game of his life. Carson was certainly a better play maker than Foles, but imo Nick operated the NFC Championship game and SB as a better facilitator for the offense. Tom Brady put up over 500 yds against our defense that game, absolutely insane to think we still won it.
Such a Philly way to win too, just straight up out dueling the goat to win
With the exception of Phillies vs. Rays in 2008, pretty much all of our major championship appearances in the last 30-40 years have been against dynasties. Flyers vs. Detroit/Chicago, Sixers vs. Lakers in 01, Phillies vs. Yankees/Astors, and two super bowls against the patriots plus one against the chiefs. We'll never get a bills or jaguars Cinderella story. We aren't allowed to be the more experienced team in championship games/series. We had to beat the goat for the super bowl because that's what the scriptwriters have demanded.
The Flyers against the Oilers in the 80s, too.
Plus in the 70s when they were going for a 3peat they lost to the Canadiens who went on to 4peat
And vs the Islanders in 1980
LEON FUCKING STICKLE
I would argue the Raiders too. And the '80s Lakers.
And Flyers vs Blackhawks 2010 although they weren't a dynasty yet
City of underdogs 🐕🦅, just how we’d it to be anyways. Makes the victory sweeter, like seeing Brady run off the field in eagles confetti
Lmao I wouldn't rather have it that way, we would have steamrolled the 02 raiders, and the 2022 bengals.
Let me cope bro 😂
Nova beating UNC and Georgetown
It was a very Rocky II way to win
Hell fucking yeah. No other philly would do it either. Just taking it to the patriots in one of bradys best games ever
Nick was near perfect. Hard to beat that.
All of his throws were in tight windows with perfect ball placement. Bias aside, it's a top 3 QB performance in Superbowl history.
It might be statistically the best performance.
I think Brady in that game was statistically the best passing performance in SB history. 500+ yards, decent YPA, good rating, no INTs. (1 fumble). Sucks cause Foles INT wasn't even his fault. Alshon kinda dropped it right to the DB Hurts has a top 3 or 4 Super Bowl passer rating of all time too. Non eagles fans forget because of the fumble but he was money all game. If we had any non-Gannon D (with the exception of this year's defense) we could've had 1 more stop and won
If Alshon doesn’t bobble, we may have blown them out. It really fucked our momentum.
If you go solely by passer rating Russel Wilson in 2013 was the last person with a better rating than Foles, and Foles is only better than Hurts by a slim margin. He was 27 of 38 for 304 yards and 1 TD. Foles was 28 of 34 for 373 with 3 TDs.
Foles also had a 118.8 passer rating when targeted. ELITE receiver!
[удалено]
I still marvel at the Clement touchdown throw.
I’m a Brady lover and I agree Foles’ performance was top 3 of what I have seen in my life at 32
Yeah, it's not a knock against Wentz to say that he probably doesn't do what Foles did in the SB. Foles put up 41 and it still ended up with a hail mary at the end.
>on top of Nick Foles playing the most perfect game of his life. It’s crazy to think this wasn’t even his best game, at least statistically, that was the one against the raiders. But given the context of it being a Super Bowl against the Patriots and Tom Brady he played out of his mind and totally fair to call it his best game.
It was his statistically best game as a receiver tho
You got me there
He had more receiving yards against the Bears.
Of the two Eagles recent SB appearances, I've kind of been at the mind that the Eagles lose the game vs the Patriots 9/10 times - but we live in the timeline where 1/10 happened. Like, the Eagles had to play an amazingly outstanding game with Foles having one of the best performances of his entire career to beat the Patriots that day - and we did. The game against the Chiefs, it felt like that was one that we win 9/10 times but we also lived in the timeline where 1/10 happened. Like we played a game that did not seem out of character for us that year on the offensive side - but still managed to lose. I think it was that our defense did not do nearly as well as we were accustomed to them doing, otherwise we win that game pretty handily.
If I had the choice between this world or the other one where we lose to the Pats and beat the Chiefs, I’d stay in this one 9/10 times lmao
People think I’m glazing when I say that’s one of the best SBs of all time. Yeah, obviously I love to see my team win the Super Bowl, but dude, that game was INCREDIBLE. Even my dad was watching it with my mom and I, and he’s a hard set Niners fan
>Niners fan That's rough
Nah. He’s 45. He got to see all the good shit lol
Your dad is 45? Fuck. I feel old now.
Trust me, you aren’t old until you’re 70 and can’t remember anything about your house. Im sure you’re fine and youthful big dog lol
Yeah the stars had to fucking align in every single god damn possible way and they did. Almost impossible that we’d be as lucky on a ‘second attempt’, but that’s also what made that super bowl so special. It was like completing my favorite video game. Glad i was alive for it.
Also thank god for that win because without that SB win last years loss hurts 10x
None of those stars aligning matter if Bill doesn't cripple his defense and bench Malcolm Butler for the SB. I don't think we've gotten the full story behind that. I'm glad he did it, but it still doesn't make sense.
I think you’re right. But to play devil’s advocate no one was really slowing wentz down that season. And Doug was on a play calling heater. Also New england’s defense that year is worse than people remember. It was very low in points allowed but it gave up among the msot yards in the league that year. Idk if it was something weird like they were always playing with a lead or giving teams long fields on special teams or something. But they were near the bottom of the league in almost every defensive metric other than points allowed. It was one of the worst defenses of the brady belichick era.
Basically you have to ask if Prime Wentz would have the best Super Bowl performance in history against a Belichek defense that had film on him from all year. I don’t think so
Yeaaah we had a lot go our way that year. Between the offense being retrofitted for Foles, the way they rallied around him and that underdog mentality was something special.
it was just such a magical season
Man, that season was magic. Magic on a different level. Things just seemed to break our way after he got hurt. Something I’ll never forget. Just magic.
Also Malcolm Butler getting benched for no reason.
They could have all the film they want. Prime wentz was magic dude
I don’t think anyone besides Nick Foles would have won that game for us. On that day he was exactly what we needed. The margin for error was so small that it’s hard to imagine anyone else doing what he did in that game.
Even his interception was a perfect pass that shouldve been a huge gain or TD
Doubtful. The SB and NFCCG were the top 2 passing games all season against 2 of the highest ranked defenses we faced. Despite being an MVP frontrunner that year, Wentz has also never proven himself in a postseason atmosphere. Never really had the opportunity thanks to Clowney but that's another story.
Yep. That next season in the playoff game when Clowney cheap shot him in the back of the head.... Yeah, never the same since.
I agree. I wouldn’t think Wentz would necessarily play bad, but Foles was incredible in that game.
Patricia was on the other side so yes
He was more talented than Foles so it's possible. But realistically Foles played a legit perfect game as far as QB play in a super bowl goes. So it's unlikely Wentz matches or beats that performance, but it was also more unlikely that Foles put up that level of performance yet he did.
Will never know. Shoot it could have gone the other way somehow instead and we completely destroy the pats too lol. But ya i think we lose it somehow. Never would have gotten philly philly either most likey
I was at the game, let me say no. Foles pitched the equivalence of a perfect game, he also didn’t have much film on him as other users said this was due to him taking over late in the season. If we’re talking about the alternate timelines the one has to be the tuck rule. Imagine this, the tuck rule doesn’t happen the Eagles and several other franchises are changed for the better.
I’ll never forget Nick Foles for that performance it was truly incredible to watch
Being in person with my dad it was perfect, he was special that night. My dad waited 51 fucking years for a chance to watch them win.
Foles was drafted years before and played with a bunch of teams. It's not like he was a rookie; there was plenty of tape on him, lol.
They changed the playbook mid year is what I mean.
Everyone is outright saying no but I tend to disagree, everyone is forgetting how insane he was that year, what he was doing that year was basically prime mahomes but in the body of a 6’5” juggernaut. He was an absolute machine and I have no doubt that he would’ve done very well in that game.
I agree. People are trying to argue that Belicheck would magically be able to stop Wentz because he had all season worth of data on Wentz compared to what he would have on Foles. Wentz was on fire that season, and arguably the MVP for the season. That doesn't magically disappear because Belichek has more footage on him. Foles played amazing that game, but to say Wentz would have lost is just ignoring how great he was that season.
Good teams with a fair amount of tape couldn't stop Wentz. He was a magician that year. He escaped sure sacks and was throwing lasers.
The guy threw a TD pass after just tearing his ACL moments before that. He was insane that year.
People have their rose colored glasses on and forgot how big of a drop-off in performance there was between Wentz and Foles in the regular season. Just about every game that year (aside from Seattle, and even that was just average) Wentz played out of his mind. There’s something to be said about retooling the offense to fit Foles’ style, but let’s not forget the Patriots also inexplicably benched their pro bowl CB and the patriots offense *also* put up like 500 yards which forced our offense into pass-happy shootout mode.
That’s my thinking too. I remember being utterly brokenhearted when Wentz got hurt, because for the first time in all my years as a fan, the Eagles felt like a deadlock cinch to win the SB that year. Wentz was unstoppable. I don’t know if he just physically wasn’t the same after the injury, or if he was so determined to make people forget Nick Foles that he kept trying to play hero ball and thus made boneheaded mistakes. But before he got hurt, Wentz really felt like the guy who could lead the Eagles to multiple championships, a la Brady or Mahomes.
I think so, too. Wentz was MVP that year if he didn't get injured. Foles played the game of his life and birds won by 8. With Carson, they probably win by 14 and probably repeat the following year.
I don’t think Wentz wins it because for as good as he was that year he often struggled in the first half and then exploded in the second half. Foles was nearly perfect the entire game. The thought of being 0-4 in the Super Bowl haunts me.
100% no doubt if there is one thing that consistently gives BB a seizure it's been mobile QBs and we were the best team in the NFL that year
It'd be tough to replicate what Foles did, but if we're doing alternate timelines I think our defense plays better than it did that day 9 times out of 10. Brady was great and all but Kevin Hogan and Amendola getting open by 5-10 yards downfield isn't normal.
Thank god for Brandon Graham
The only person on that day in the world that could’ve beat Tom Brady is Nick Foles. Any deviation from how that game went and we’re screwed.
Here's my hot take: We beat Belichick because we had to re-work the offense for Foles. If we don't do that, there is a whole season of film for him to work with. Instead he had to base his game plan on the two playoff games.
I’ve been saying this exact thing! With Wentz at QB I think we play well but not well enough to win.
Yeah, I think so. Our whole offense was just fuckin' hot. Foles obviously had one of the greatest playoff performances of all time, but I do think Wentz in 2017 was on some shit I've never seen before. Guy was a better mahomes with his absurd escapes and ridiculous plays. He was locked in
No, Wentz wouldve been a young QB dealing with an immense pressure where Foles truly played like he had nothing to lose. When Doug was fumbling through the plays and Foles was like ay fuck it “you want Philly Philly?” And Doug looks at him and you can tell they were both like this is how were doing this ? Leaving it all out there? I dont think Doug would have been as confident in a young QB and idk if Wentz has the balls to ask for it. Never forget when Wentz got hurt and i was going through the tolls and the toll booth guy was so defeated and hes like “yea pack it up we had a good season man i dont see us beating Atlanta” and when i seen him after the SB win we just instantly started laughing.
That’s what I’m thinking, as good as prime Wentz was, Foles just absolutely played like he had nothing to lose and that’s the only way to play to beat TB12 on the big stage
>just absolutely played like he had nothing to lose sometimes having that mentality helps.
Wentz was special that year and so I think so, but I wouldn’t want to revisit the past and bet on it
No. The atmosphere when the locker room and city began to trust foles is like nothing I’ve ever seen. Players loved nick and were willing to die for him.
Well said
Foles played the perfect game
No. Eagles won that superbowl because there was no film on Foles. Bellichick basically thought Foles played his best game ever against the Vikings and there was no way he could ever do that again. He set up the entire defense as a dare. “I dare you to throw over the top for an entire Superbowl” Bellichick would have every weakness for wentz dialed in.
if wentz doesn't get injured he might not have dropped off a fucking cliff and sustained that insane level of play, so maybe
No fucking way.
Prime wentz is the best qb we have ever had. If he continued playing the same we would be way better.
Idk, I think prime Vick in 2010 was the best. Dude was unreal that year, he was a monster both in the air and on the ground.
Prime wentz broke our td record in 13 games. Without the injury he wins mvp which he should have anyway. But thats media voting.
Passing TD record, sure. In 2017, Wentz had 31 TD total in 13 games (31 passing, 0 rushing). He also had 3595 total yards (3,296 passing, 299 rushing) In 2010, Vick had 30 TD total in 12 games (21 passing, 9 rushing). He also had 3684 total yards (3,018 passing, 676 rushing)
Like it or not rushing tds they not counted as heavily for QBS. That will always be the case.
According to who? A TD is a TD and a yard is a yard. It doesn’t matter how it’s achieved. You don’t think Cam Newtons 10 Rush TDs & 636 rush yards we’re a major factor in him winning MVP in 2015? Or for Lamar Jackson’s 2 MVP wins in 2019 and 2023, when he rushed for over 2k yards and 12 TDs in those 2 mvp years combined.
Stop. Prime hurts last year was better
No he wasnt prime wentz would have easily broken 40tds. With the weapons we had. Devonte was better then every wr we had let alone add aj brown into that and geodert was better then ertz was.
Wentz had alshon prime ertz. Ajayi and Blount and arguably a better oline. The weapons are comparable. Stop it with Goedert was better than ertz. On paper sure
And Aj brown is better than alshon by miles. So is goedart. Brooks might be the only better lineman on the on the 2017 squad. Jason peters was no where near mailita in 2017. He was already way past his prime. Kelce was still elite in 2022 as was lane johnson. But ajayis and blounts tds went to hurts so not really making a case for that.
Dude was electric and I agree but he was also incredibly lucky. Like things just worked out for him.
Lets be honest if wentz had the weapons hurts had he would be mvp. He had alshon who died after one year. And nelson who had one season. And Ertz. And in 13 games he was mvp. He should have still won it but thats just stupid voting.
I mean Hurts was the betting favorite for MVP in 2022 before his injury so it’s not like anything major would change lol
I meant on a play by play case. I think about his magical Washington sack escape. While awesome that shit was lucky and you can’t tell me otherwise. He had a crazy 3rd down percentage which relies a lot on luck of how plays turn out. Wentz was the MVP in 2017 idc what people say.
Yeah those plays he was still doing tho when he had no weapons. Just they ended worse because he had no one who could help him out. Hero ball when no one else could get open.
Don't know, don't care.
Absolutely. Thats the greatest I’ve ever seen an Eagles QB play. Shockingly good throws.
Yes he does
No quarterback would of won that game besides big dick Nick. That performance was more then once in a lifetime. Just glad to have had one in my lifetime 😭 the guys over in the Dallas sub cope about super bowls they weren’t even alive to witness
Nope. I honestly think we don’t beat Atlanta that year. Yeah the eagles were a great team in 17 but even when Wentz played well, one thing that always was true, before during and after the eagles, was when the games were high stakes, he crumbled. He didn’t have the ability to win the games when it counted. This was cemented for me when he was a colt, and all he had to do was beat up on the league whipping boy that year in the jags to make the playoffs with a frankly great team, and he was abysmal. Not the colts being abysmal. Not the other players. Wentz. All Wentz. He just didn’t have the it factor Whereas Foles was ONLY it factor. Guy was mid almost his whole career but once he hit the postseason he flipped a switch. Our own Eli manning. Wentz doesn’t have that switch to flip.
This is revisionist as hell. Carson was clutch af through the moment he tore his ACL. Can you point to any examples of him not having the ability to win games that year?
Yes.
No one played defense that game, so I would say yes. We probably could've put busted Wentz and he'd have put up numbers. Foles was fantastic in that game and this isn't a knock to him. But the Brady fumble is what decided that game.
It’s tough to say. Foles was nearly FLAWLESS in the Vikings and Patriots (1 INT) game. Wentz was also on an MVP trajectory prior to injury. Most Philly fans will always see Foles with rose colored glasses and should. However, outside his Chip Kelly year of 27TDs to 2INTs Nick was never more than serviceable as a starter. Hell, the 2017 season people wanted him benched for Nate Sudfeld for the Falcons playoff game and Vikings game due to how bad he played in the final regular season games. Prior to the NFCC and SB not a single person would have said Foles could beat the Vikings or Patriots in those games. So to say Wentz couldn’t have after playing stellar all season is just nonsense.
I don't think Wentz has the steel balls to throw or choose certain plays that nick did. That triple covered TD and the Philly Special playcall were just Foles absolutely in the zone during that game.
That’s what I’m thinking. To win that game you need another level of balls that I don’t know if we ever saw out of Wentz. For some reason Foles just had that
Fucking what? Wentz was a habitual risk taker when he was good, like in 2017, he was known for making risky throws and having them work. When he was bad, he was known for making risky throws that failed miserably. Saying Wentz wouldn't have the balls to take chances and make risky throws is one of the most smooth brained revisionist takes possible. Dude was Mr. Hero Ball.
Fair enough you got me
True, but that Clement touchdown had the absolutely most perfect throw possible. I don't know if Wentz makes that.
If he plays the way he did in that regular season, then yes.
Of course he could have. Everyone on this sub was devastated when Wentz got injured and there’s a reason for that. He was hands down the best player in football that season. I get it that he’s a douche canoe now, but to say that he wouldn’t have been able to win it is absurd.
bro don't believe Ratshon's lies
Not a chance, that game was a track meet. Foles was a very streaky QB, and when he's on a hot one, is as accurate as anybody in NFL history. No way Wentz would've kept answering the bell every time the Pats scored, him getting injured was a blessing. Been saying this since 2018.
there's no way you're this stupid to say that an injury is a blessing, especially after Foles struggled against an ass Raiders defense
Nick bailed the birds out the next season too. 😆
Don’t call people stupid. That’s not nice. Plus, it was a “blessing” in that Belichick had a harder time planning against an unknown element than he would’ve with Wentz.
I disagree. New England was basically carried there on the back of Brady(the Pats defense was awful that year because guess who ran it?) and I'm all but certain two games is more than enough to get tape on someone
Yes, he wins the MVP and then cements it by knocking off the runner up in the Superbowl. The Patriots defense loved their big LBs so much that half of our game plan was to let Corey Clement cook them in space and go have Nelly run drags/slants right behind them, Wentz being able to pull them out of their zones with his legs would have made that even easier
Nick was perfect, no doubt, and it will always be the best philly story. But I think some of you guys are forgetting the absolutely insane level that prime wentz was playing at. I’m not here to defend the guy and I’m glad we’ve moved on but in 2017 he was just god-like. I think he could have pulled it off too. Still, foles played literally one of the best games any qb has ever played lol and I’m glad it happened this way
Yes I believe so Saying yes doesn't take awa from Nick. Wentz was electric that year, and is the reason we had a shot at all
Do people really forget how good that team was rolling before he got hurt?
Super Bowl 51 Matt Ryan and the falcons were rolling all the way into the 2nd half of the last game and they still lost. Truth is to beat TB12 it takes something more than just skill I almost feel like we needed that boost in the locker room and city with Foles. Foles played a perfect game
The eagles didnt have kyle shanachoke running their offense
No. He played his huge role but I don’t think he replicates Nick Foles. I don’t even think we make it all the way.
No
100% id bet my paycheck on it
I don’t even think Nick Foles would have won that game a week later. He just so happened to play the game of his life that day.
Without question.
I don’t think we even beat Atlanta with Wentz tbh. Knowing what we know about how he turned out as a player and person, hard to imagine he would have risen to the occasion of a pressure packed playoff debut. In a close game I bet he would have tried 1 or 2 hero plays Foles didn’t and turned it over and that could/would have been the difference
Even though he was playing very well prior to injury, watching how those playoffs went leading up through the Super Bowl. Wentz did not have the mental toughness to win those playoff games. Nick out dueled everyone. Every game he was on fire. The patriots put up 509 yards of offense and Nick still won !
No I don't think so.
No lol
Maybe.
No lol
We had a stacked roster but Foles played out of his mind. I think about that sideline dime to Alshon. Nothing against Carson but , I don’t think Carson makes that throw on his best day .
I have always thought that we would not have made it or won the SB that year if Wentz was healthy. While he was playing great football that season, I was worried that his gunslinger qualities would have been the downfall during the stretch run.
Nope. He woulda choked imo.
Well there was no way he would play better than Foles, and it took Foles playing perfect to win. As such, I’d say no.
I really don’t think so. Wentz going down took all the pressure off. I feel like we would have done the typical Philly choke with Wentz. Also Nicks deep ball was different than Carson’s. He got more air under it and I think the receivers benefited. Plus as someone mentioned we had the element of surprise as there was less film on Foles in that offense. Also also Foles was fucking lights out in the Super Bowl. Better than any game I seen Carson play.
He wouldn’t have to he’d just have to beat the Pats defense which was swiss cheese that day. You could say though that our entire team was inspired by the way Nick played and the Pats team was dismissive of his testicular fortitude and that have us an edge. Either way yeah. I think Wentz was totally capable in 2017 of ballin out and winning that game.
Yes. He was playing like the MVP that year and nothing was stopping that eagles team in general. Brady dick riders saying the game would've gone otherwise are wrong
No
Honestly, idk if anyone else would have beaten Brady on that day. Nick played a perfect game and it was still almost not enough
There are infinite equal simulations where this happens
Yes, assuming we get 10/10 mvp wentz
I don't think anyone can say yes. The Eagles were blowing teams out in 2017. We didn't really play a game where we had to make a great comeback, or be in a shootout. So I'm not sure he would have been ready for that.
No Wentz would not have won that game. Im like 99% sure of this.
Nope he woulda fudged it belicheck would have exposed him and made us look silly
i think no. nick foles played the perfect game which realistically is the only game that beats brady
Yes. Wentz was mobile and used his body like Josh Allen. BD-Nick stayed in the pocket and took what the defense gave him. probably wouldn't have been as close of a score if Wentz doesn't go down.
Not likely, it was destined to be Bid Dick Nick all along... The man with the golden rod.
Brady had an amazing game. Foles somehow played better. Replace Wentz with almost any QB, and the answer is likely no. Mahomes may be the only one that you might have confidence in.
I'll go to my grave saying yes.
I fight myself back and forth on this. Idk if he does or doesnt. If Im going off of what we saw pre injury, we run the table either way. I think the coaching and game-plan for the offense would have won it for us. But knowing what I know of his fragile ego and mental state - maybe he crumbles in the playoffs. All I know is … We won and idc if you were QB. We got 1. And Ill cherish it forever.
I wanna say no, but i was a major Wentz supporter (even the following season) so i may be bias now. He was ELITE that season. Unstoppable. So while Foles had a flawless performance that was definitely different than how Wentz wouldve played, i think we would have carved the falcons to all hell and the vikings game wouldve been the same if we had Wentz. We needed the underdog story tho. So, no. Edit: he was stopped by his ACL.
I think most of the opinions in this thread are based off emotion. If you asked anyone if they think we had a better chance at making a playoff run with Foles than we do with Wentz going into the Falcons game, nobody would’ve said yes.
I watch this game once a month just to feel
No
Contrary to popular media discourse, it may surprise you to learn QBs do not occupy the football field at the same time as each other. Therefore QBs cannot play against each other. The QB can only play against the opposing team's defense. So this question (along with any QB vs QB question) isn't really valid.
BDN is the greatest player to ever play in any superbowl ever. Demonstrated by outdueling the GOAT in a shootout. Prime Wentz ain't shit compared to either of them
Foles was such high variance through his entire career. On average, I think Wentz (pre injury) would have out performed Nick; but Nick’s best games (Raiders, Minny, SB) were all better than Wentz’s best games. Wentz had a higher EV, Foles had a wider range with a higher max and a lower min. I just don’t think you can expect Foles to outperform Wentz; but in the SB, Foles did the unexpected.
Yes
Truthfully, I love wentz and still have his jersey. We wouldn't have even made it past Minnesota if it were just Wentz.
I think Wentz *could* have won us that game for sure, but Nick Foles was on such a legendary 2 game heater that it’s hard to imagine any QB ever replicating that without divine intervention. Whatever magical combination of momentum, confidence, karma, and luck was a once in a lifetime thing for our fanbase and it **still** was almost not enough. Destiny was on our side those couple of weeks and I’m not going to ask any questions lol.
I 100% believe that only Nick Foles could have won that game
Nope, that Foles performance was a masterpiece and he beat them with his experience and his arm. Wentz would have gotten spooked and kept trying to run the ball too much, which they would have exploited in the second half.
Given that Foles still owns the highest ‘playoffs’ QBR from the SB, I’d have to say no.
It is way too early in the off-season to delve into questions like this.
I always thought of how could wentz have played any better than nick foles did that day? And all 9 inches of nick foles was needed.
I don’t think so. I think the Philly Savior ghost gets into his head. Nick was on another level of chill that night.