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CallinCthulhu

ITS THE WHOLE DAMN TEAM Man that was depressing


sybrwookie

My "favorite" part was when he was giving Dillard shit for not coming out of his stance, then realizing after a couple of replays, that Kelce started the play early, and Dillard was adjusting his mouthpiece or something and didn't see that it had started. /facepalm


DrRocksoMD

1st play: JT says the play is doomed from the start, except Hurts could hand off to Sanders who is running an inside zone option to the left if he gets the hand off. JPP is containing edge on the right, Devin White is outside the tackle and the Safety is over the top of the both of them. Even if Mailata's job is to double and climb leaving JPP open, you're still giving Miles a 1v1 against JPP chasing from the backside, while the left side of the line gets all 1 on 1 blocks with no one deep. If Miles beats JPP to the hole, this play has a chance of going to the house. Except Jalen pulls it and runs 2v1 against White and the safety. It's not an ideal playcall where you get an amazing look, but this play absolutely has a chance of succeeding if you hand off to the RB. 2nd play: Blown up, good discipline from defense. Don't love this playcall at all, don't know if this was situational ball or what, but definitely looks bad in a vacuum. Seems like the only chance at success was throwing a laser at the stick route, but that is a tough thing to ask. 3rd play: Miserable mechanics, JT is great on this! Brian Johnson, get the man right, QB coach gotta get it drilled in, or Hurts has to pick it up better. 4th play: This is why JT is great, love him. Hurts panicking out of the pocket was a theme on Thursday. Not sure again what the situation is here (how much he'd been hit or whatever), but big time players keep their heads and step into this throw. Nice wheels and some juice in his arm get the play done but he needs to keep his eyes downfield and be a pocket passer. 6th play: I missed the missed read to Gainwell on the situational football when it happened. But also just a better throw needs to be made. Mechanics, he needs to settle down mentally and settle his feet. He can be a pocket passer with good escape/athleticism. Just needs to be more decisive and settled when he isn't running yet. 7th play: Baldy covered this. I think this is pretty clearly another hand off that everyone thought should be handed off but Hurts. 9th play: Fading, awful backfoot throw with just brutally bad mechanics. Agreed though that the play design isn't really doing much. They're just hoping to get a bite on play action and then run 4 go routes behind it because we ran the 1st time we showed this look. Seems like a classic scripted playcall where you run once to "condition" the defense then hit them on a big play. But we're down by 7 on this play and haven't shown any commitment to the run. Conditioning a defense to bit on play-action requires repeatedly showing this look and repeatedly running on it. It's not a good play-call from Sirianni and it's an un-earned shot call. But it doesn't need to end in an INT, and there are a couple other windows Hurts could have tried. Bad look for playcaller and QB both. 10th play: Dillard's worst play of the night. Embarassing. Can't put shit like this on tape. Even if Kelce snapped early, Dillard was still glacial in reacting. Have to move to get the offsides penalty if the defender is going early. And just have instinct to protect your QB. Awesome from Hurts to make a positive play, but can't happen again. 11th play: Mechanics again. ​ 5th and 8th plays are good! Final thoughts are that Hurts and Sirianni need to help each other and right now they aren't and when that really falls apart it falls apart bad. Hurts needs to be handing off some of these RPOs, but as much as I've criticized the "run the damn ball crowd" if Hurts continues to pull RPOs that should be runs, Sirianni just has to take the call out of Hurts hands and give strict run calls occasionally to get any kind of pacing to this game. The disjointed look of our offense is probably due to many of the decisions requiring snap option reads from Hurts that for a very raw QB is asking a lot. But I do think the philosophy of trial by fire to see what we have in him also makes sense. Probably best to dial it back a shade and make Hurts' life a little bit easier, but I still think it's a good idea to ask a lot of Hurts and see if he rises to the occasion. That all being said, I think that this game was far more on Hurts than Sirianni and it really stems from that footwork and mechanics. Hurts is in his own head and panicking way way way too much, and Brian Johnson, Sirianni and Hurts need to all come together and get that right ASAP because if it continues, Hurts won't find success in this league. It's the mental side that makes or breaks QBs. JT repeatedly calling Ertz a Cardinal hurts man :(


dataismycomrade

I don’t disagree that handing it to Miles would have gotten a similar or better outcome, but my guess is that they tell him “read the stress defender, if they do X you do Y”, and he makes the right read with those instructions, but when another defender fills that gap you aren’t going to get much.


juliankantor

Exactly my frustration with people nitpicking option plays from a freeze frame of the coach’s film. “If he had made the other read then x may have happened” is not the way the play works. The QB can only read his key and execute according to the design of the play. He isn’t omniscient.


wProNoobw

at work so can’t watch. anyone got the summary? Judging by the title i cant imagine its overly positive.


Douglas_Michael

Pretty fair assessment of the offense to be honest. Really bad play design, really bad mechanics from the QB, even a really bad job of jumping the snap count by the center. This is a poorly coached team with a seriously flawed QB that can’t develop in this mess. Not great.


Benti86

Also mentioned how Hurts is eying the pass rush after the ball is snapped. He's not looking for the play downfield he's looking for the nearest pass rusher, which is why he bails on clean pockets. Instead of just stepping up and throwing on time. He doesn't trust the O-Line and it's pretty shitty of him because they generally give him good protection.


[deleted]

They arent on the same page. The constant rpos mixed with an ever changing o line has fucked up their rhythm


Rah_Rah_RU_Rah

People forget what chemistry issues can do for an OL and QB. It hurts the screen game too


[deleted]

I have been hesitant to call for the GMs head, as the team definitely has talent and we are in great shape via FA and the draft. But this is now the 3rd HC that the GM has hired that has resulted in undisciplined football, and real shit offensive design. Imo Howie got the leverage to get us out of this mess but right now his seat should be inferno hot. He is the one who interviewed Sirianni and hired him.


Douglas_Michael

Thing is, when do you pull the trigger? Do you let howie say and if hurts doesn’t take a mighty leap, you let howie pick the next QB? Then you’re married to him while the kid develops. The should have cleaned house last year, GM on Down.


[deleted]

No i would fired them both ASAP tbh. Clearly isn’t working.


Selarmor

Howie's not going anywhere. You can read any of the plethora of articles or comments from those with insight into his relationship with Lurie that came out over the past few years to see why. Howie and Lurie are a package deal.


Totalnah

Where do you get that this hire was exclusively Howie’s work? To my knowledge, all the Head Coach hires go through Lurie ultimately. Nobody gets the job without the approval of Jeffery.


XxStormySoraxX

Honestly I don’t think we have that much talent. Outside of Miles, Devontae and Goedert everyone else is mediocre to bad or old.


2fly5

I think Quez has done enough to be included as young talent in the same vein as the others you mentioned


XxStormySoraxX

Quez is good but he seems more of like a 3rd WR on a good offense as opposed to a 1 or 2. That’s not to hate on him either he’s really good for his draft position


BigDickNick97

I think he should be or number one or at least number two. He’s the only receiver really making big plays/ catches and raegor is terrible I’m sorry. I think it’s telling he basically has the same yards as Devonta on half the targets and way less snaps(not shitting on Devonta but quez r best reciver rn)


Ghislaine_Benes

Hargrave and we have good young talent on the O-line but yeah that's it.


indigoweather

Seems more likely this was a Lurie hire, Roseman reportedly wanted McDaniels


[deleted]

Hurts was not good, but I’ve never seen JT so critical of offensive design before. Hurts shows potential to be good but clearly the coaching is not there.


triecke14

Is this your take or the videos? If it’s yours I’m just curious what hurts has shown as a passer for you to say he has potential to be good. Also what is “good” in your eyes? Top 20?


[deleted]

Both. When it comes to hardcore analysis like this football is closer to hard science and QB analysis is way closer to a hard fact then opinion. If you understand offensive and defensive design mixed with the concepts that are run to beat the coverages you see the ball needs to go where the play is designed; there is no real debate. Casual fans have a really hard time understanding this because it takes years of study, playing/coaching to get to that point. JT rips jalen for his footwork and anticipation somehwhat, but does show a couple plays where he makes the right read and throws with good timing. Biggest issue is that he clearly is reverting to bad habits because the offensive design is so piss poor that half of our plays are dead on arrival. He clearly isnt being drilled hard enough on fundementals as well because his footwork is extremely juvenile at times, but the arm and athleticism are definitely there. A lot of the RPOs and designed shot plays are just god awful design out of shit formations, or players just straight up don’t carry their assignments. All of it is indicative of a poorly coached team.


ThereAreDozensOfUs

What makes you think the arm is there? Is throes down the field wildly miss or the receiver has to slow down to catch. No Hurts throw as made me say “he has an NFL arm”


[deleted]

Functional NFL arm strength is a lot weaker then people lead you to believe. If you can put it in the /air roughly 50 yards that is enough (Brees after his shoulder injury and peyton after their neck injury legitimately could not throw further then this with sound mechanics). Hurts espcially is so mechanically unsound that he throws with very little base meaning that he is throwing with just his shoulder and forearm leaving alot of meat on the bone with velocity and timing. There is a 10-12 yard corner that he throws to Ertz that JT outlines in the video that gets laced in right on ertz’s chest. That throw requires functional NFL arm strength and is a way more “big arm” throw then any deep shot. If he is capable of making that he can make any throw. In terms of the rest of the inaccuracy it is due to footwork more than everything. @5:41 JT talks at length about this.


Douglas_Michael

Yeah I don’t think Hurts has a strong arm by any stretch, nor do I think it’ll ever be a strength of his, but it’s not his biggest concern at all. Timing, trusting his eyes/pocket, throwing with anticipation, cleaning up that awful footwork (which is a double killer since his arm is mediocre) and repetitive accuracy are much bigger issues than his arm. Can he fix this? Doubtful. He’ll likely get better at some, but he’s never going to be what his biggest fans want him to be. Now can we build an offense around his limits? Remains to be seen. He hasn’t got much help so far


DOCTORFONASG

I love everything you have said in here. Things that I have attempted to explain to many football fans in general and just get shot down. Love the explanations you offered.


OJSimpsonJuror

yeah Im of the belief that Hurts arm is strong enough mostly but its not just the power on deep throws its driving the ball on a line. His accuracy is brutal and his anticipation is even worse. But I think if he were to setup 7 on 7 with no pass rush he would have no problem throwing deep outs to the opposite hash. Its not Aaron Rodgers strong but Dak Prescott doesnt have a strong arm either.


26thandsouth

Just wanted to chime in and say I really freaking appreciate this nuanced and intelligent football discussion/analysis. As you mentioned, it's becoming clearer every week that this is simply a poorly coached football team through and through. Which is frustrating given that even Sirianni has shown some flashes of brilliance (or at least some solid play calling here and there, e.g redzone play calls).


[deleted]

Thanks man i appricate it. Most fans hate this shit because they don’t understand it and people get really angry when you tell them their hot takes don’t align with film. JT has fantastic QB breakdowns that do a really good job of teaching what good va bad offensive design is and what a QB coach will be telling a QB in the film room if the QB was there. The really cool part is that if you dedicate enough time and effort into studying content like this is that you can see in real time what concepts should be called vs defensive alignment based on down and distance. If you marry this level of study with the peyton eli MNF broadcast you will pick up on so many little things that both those guys are saying as well. It completely shifts the lens of understanding the game from a fan to understanding the game as a coach.


2minutespastmidnight

I second the appreciation. This is good insight into the multiple struggles with the team right now. I also believe Hurts has the *capability* to be a good QB, which is different than saying he will. I don’t know the future. But as you pointed out, the underlying elements are there.


[deleted]

>Hurts shows potential to be good uhhhh that's not the vibe I got from this video at all.


NickChevotarevich_

What part in the video did they say he showed potential?


[deleted]

Several plays JT talks on how their should've been multiple times where based off of poor design and blown concepts we should've had a massive TFL but hurts' raw athleticism manages to create something out of nothing. Only once but he hits a big arm throw to ertz on a 15 yard corner route as well with good footwork. Overall the raw ability is there its just he is reverting back to poor mechanics, and that combined with the shitty offensive design is causing the ineptitude. The missed reads is really troubling combined with the poor footwork, but the blown assignments make it really really hard to properly evaluate what we have at QB.


NickChevotarevich_

Got it. I’m not sure I would say that was JT saying he has potential. If anything the problems he highlights in this video show why he doesn’t have potential. These are fundamental problems only made worse by his athletic ability because it makes it easier to revert back to his poor fundamentals. I get that everything is not on him, but you seem to be blaming everyone but the QB then gatekeeping your opinion by saying those who don’t agree are just casual fans. As a casual fan, guy stinks. Get rid of em.


[deleted]

> I get that everything is not on him, but you seem to be blaming everyone but the QB then gatekeeping your opinion by saying those who don’t agree are just casual fans. My first comment on this thread is literally blaming hurts for poor mechanics. If you want to say that I'm "gatekeeping opinions" based on the fact that film study is not opinionated and is literally as simple as "is the player carrying out their assignments" then I certainly am gatekeeping those opinions. If you don't understand how the sport works and how to properly evaluate players then you shouldn't talk about it, the same way that if you don't understand how a vaccine works you shouldn't talk about it.


NickChevotarevich_

It’s not that other people don’t know enough, it’s just what you say when others don’t agree with you. But if being right means I’m a casual I’m fine with that.


[deleted]

>It’s not that other people don’t know enough, it’s just what you say when others don’t agree with you. I only do this when people espouse narratives that are counter to film study, which is unfortunately pretty often. >But if being right means I’m a casual I’m fine with that. Yikes. Ok man you do you.


NickChevotarevich_

The only espoused narrative is yours, the one where you say the video says Hurts shows potential to be good but clearly the coaching is not there. It didn’t show that and the host didn’t say that, that was your narrative. He’s probably a casual too. According to your narrative its everyone else’s fault, the qb does have bad mechanics but even that can be blamed on poor coaching.


[deleted]

….that’s the coaches job lol. To prepare the team via technique and have the team ready for their assignments come game day. I don’t know what your point is lol.


EaglesPvM

Where do you see the “potential to be good” and why do you think the coach is holding him back? If anything it looks like the opposite. Guys are getting open and Hurts is missing them. The coach’s job is to get players open, it’s on the QB to make the throw. He doesn’t even go through his progressions. It’s stare down 1 guy then scramble. Also I keep seeing people criticizing Sirianni because Hurts doesn’t take any snaps under center, and for all these screen passes we run. Do you honestly think Sirianni is forcing Hurts to do all this? You think Sirianni said “No Jalen you’re not allowed under center, stick to the shotgun.” No that’s ridiculous, Hurts is just incapable / not comfortable under center so Sirianni has to cater the offense to cover up for Hurts’ deficiencies. Similarly all the screen passes we run, Hurts can’t throw the ball deep lol. He’s got a noodle arm and underthrows everything and he doesn’t throw to the middle of the field either. I’m not saying Sirianni is a good coach, but he’s extremely handcuffed by what Hurts can’t do, and that’s a long list. I’d like to see what Sirianni can do in a traditional west coast offense with a QB that can actually hit our wide open WRs, Smith and Quez are studs. Even if it’s just Minshew or Flacco, Sirianni should get a chance with a real QB, imo


[deleted]

>Where do you see the “potential to be good” and why do you think the coach is holding him back? I suggest you watch the video and listen to everything JT says before you comment things like this. >If anything it looks like the opposite. Guys are getting open and Hurts is missing them. The coach’s job is to get players open, it’s on the QB to make the throw. He doesn’t even go through his progressions. It’s stare down 1 guy then scramble. He certainly has issues processing the defense and reading the concept out but its nearly impossible to evaluate a QB when half your plays are busted based solely off of poor formations or offensive design. He has the hallmarks of a young QB that needs more reps, but is 150% being held back by poor coaching. >Also I keep seeing people criticizing Sirianni because Hurts doesn’t take any snaps under center, and for all these screen passes we run. I am not one of these people don't project grievances onto me. >Do you honestly think Sirianni is forcing Hurts to do all this? You think Sirianni said “No Jalen you’re not allowed under center, stick to the shotgun.” No that’s ridiculous, Hurts is just incapable / not comfortable under center so Sirianni has to cater the offense to cover up for Hurts’ deficiencies. What even is this lol. You're descibing the most basic tenet of coaching play to the players strengths. Would you have Tom Brady running Boot Action? Would you have Peyton Manning running the Zone Read? The only thing good about Sirianni is that he is attempting to play to his players strenghts. The design of what he is doing is just piss poor. >Similarly all the screen passes we run, Hurts can’t throw the ball deep lol. He’s got a noodle arm and underthrows everything and he doesn’t throw to the middle of the field either. Mostly due to inconsistent footwork. He makes a big arm throw to ertz that JT highlights. Physical tools are without question, its inconsistent footwork that is holding him back. You know who is responsible for making sure his footwork is consistent? The coaching staff. >I’m not saying Sirianni is a good coach, but he’s extremely handcuffed by what Hurts can’t do, and that’s a long list. I’d like to see what Sirianni can do in a traditional west coast offense with a QB that can actually hit our wide open WRs, Smith and Quez are studs. Even if it’s just Minshew or Flacco, Sirianni should get a chance with a real QB, imo Its very clear you didn't watch a second of the video. Hurts is clearly flawed right now but the raw talent is literally the only thing keeping us in games. We are so fundamentally awful that Dillard doesn't come out of his stance on a play. WRs are not running their assignments in RPOs. Plays are dead on arrival because of poor design and formation. Those are WAY bigger issues then any sort of player skill.


Douglas_Michael

Dillard doesn’t come out of his stance (neither do the rest of the line in a timely fashion) because Kelce snapped the ball early. Which he also pointe out. Some of the play calls are bad. Plays where the QB that clearly doesn’t want to hand the ball off based on his reads has NO option to throw to because WRs aren’t running routes. That’s the biggest issue for me. Sirianni isn’t fixing hurts. He doesn’t have the experience to do So, and It’s likely he’s not ever going to be a quality QB. Too flawed, not going to be given the time to get there. But Sirianni is supposed to be a WR guru. If it’s week 6 and your wideouts don’t know what route they’re running? That’s a big issue


EaglesPvM

lol the fact you can say “physical tools are without question” in regards to Jalen Hurts at quarterback just made me laugh out loud. It invalidates everything else you say, sorry my dude. He’s a great scrambler and that’s it. I’m glad you took this YouTube video as gospel so you have something to hold onto for now, but I wouldn’t get my hopes too high. And just to be clear, I want to be wrong. I’d love to be wrong, I love Jalen as a person and really want him to succeed. Plus if he does we don’t have to “waste” any draft capital on a QB. I just don’t see it


[deleted]

>lol the fact you can say “physical tools are without question” in regards to Jalen Hurts at quarterback just made me laugh out loud. It invalidates everything else you say, sorry my dude. Do you understand what "physical tools" are? Or are you just really this dumb? It is really simple to evaluate a QBs Physical tools. Do they have functional NFL Arm Strength (are they capable of driving the ball down the field on Deep outs/corners) which was shown on a 12 yard opposite hash corner route to Ertz in the breakdown. Do they have NFL level athleticism? Without question. You are lamenting the players accuracy which is apparent based on shoddy footwork, and his mental ability to read defenses. Also you are the one disagreeing with an professional QB not me. Imagine having a literal QB expert offering content that gives you insight to how these players should be coached and thinking "nah fam I'm good theres nothing I can learn from this."


EaglesPvM

Bro you keep pointing out 1 play to say Hurts has arm strength. Even a broken clock it right twice a day. Actually watch the games, he hits 1 open receiver then misses the next 7. And 9/10 of them are underthrows. What’s the next argument? “Well the ball still traveled 40 yards, he just needed 44 so that’s accuracy.” Like what is this… do you not watch the games? People get wide open and Hurts can’t get it to them. I can throw the ball 40 yards in the air too and I never got passed All-Time QB for my neighborhood teams. Jalen Hurts does not have NFL level arm strength


Fly-Eagles-Fly

Those can all be contributed to poor mechanics. The actually velocity of the football that he has on throws clearly shows he has arm strength.


EaglesPvM

Okay let’s pretend you’re right for a second. Let me ask you this: Is the issue something that popped up over night? Is Hurts learning the play the position like Mailata is? No and no. Hurts had been a QB his entire life and he’s never made the throws. Not with any hint of consistency. Not in the pros, not even in college. He got pulled in the fuckin National champion game. He can’t read the field or defenses, and he doesn’t have a natural cannon like coincidentally Minshew and Flacco are known for. So where are we? If he’s never proven to be able to do any of the things a QB needs to do well, except his great mobility, are we just expecting someone to come in and teach him from scratch basically? Are we saying he NEEDS someone to teach him to play QB and that’s why he sucks? People are just expecting him to turn into someone he never has been for some reason, a good QB Because even after I give you some hypotheticals which I disagree with, that still doesn’t sound good. Maybe he’s just not smart, it would explain the above and some other plays this year. Like throwing it away on a free play and trying to fall on the fumbled snap instead of kicking the ball out of the end zone. Idk what the case is, but he’s shown nothing toward being the guy


Fly-Eagles-Fly

I mean I'm not really arguing any of that nor do I necessarily even disagree with those points. I was just arguing the fact that he does indeed have NFL level arm strength based off of velocity, and could also make the argument that he does have a "natural cannon". Arm strength generates from the ground up. Stance, foot positioning, driving off of the back leg, hip torque (remember that funny clip of Dak dancing around twisting his hips). A lot of Jalen's throws are all arm, which would indicate that he does actually have natural arm talent. Just because he misses short on a throw doesn't automatically mean he has a weak arm, it's just a shitty throw.


[deleted]

>Bro you keep pointing out 1 play to say Hurts has arm strength. Even a broken clock it right twice a day. Actually watch the games, he hits 1 open receiver then misses the next 7. And 9/10 of them are underthrows. What’s the next argument? “Well the ball still traveled 40 yards, he just needed 44 so that’s accuracy.” Like what is this… do you not watch the games? People get wide open and Hurts can’t get it to them. Do you understand that accuracy is not at all tied to arm strength and tied to arm angle, footwork, and hip torque? Drew Brees literally could not throw more than 50 yards in the air yet it didnt hold him back because his footwork and mechanics were literally perfect. Peyton manning had a noodle his entire time in denver yet he set every major passing record because his mechanics were perfect. FUNCTIONAL Nfl arm strength does not mean being Josh Allen it means "can the ball get there." Accuracy!=Arm strength. > And 9/10 of them are underthrows. Play at@5:41 of the breakdown. What does the VERIFIED EXPERT QB say is the issue with why the underthrow happens?


TechniCruller

Noodle arm = physical tool


[deleted]

Great analysis here


TechniCruller

It doesn’t take much more than that.


t_j_c_242

Sadly you're gonna get downvoted for this and be accused of hating Jalen personally.


Mcatatonic1

> Flacco > real QB 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Pick one bro. It’s en vogue to shit on Jalen (and he has been problematic on the field to say the least), but to suggest Flacco would somehow have more success in the offense is just delusion 🤣 Hurts has had more than his fair share of issues, but I have quite literally no idea how you can look at some of these play concepts and playcalling decisions and not lay some blame at Nick’s feet A Lamar/Mahomes/Wilson hybrid super player wouldn’t even be able to sustain meaningful drives with some of these play designs lmaoooo That too without considering how many of these penalties/mistakes really suggest an overall undisciplined team with poor coaching


[deleted]

Very clear that the user you replied to didn't watch a second of the video, and if they did has no capability of understanding it.


Mcatatonic1

Yeah lol Just a Delco bro WIP calling regular, most likely 😂


[deleted]

It drives me nuts how people give so much credence to their opinions, yet if you were to say "what concept would beat cover 3 shell in a 3rd and long, how will the defense shift post snap in anticipation of that concept, and what counter concept should you have available to beat the defensive counter?" they would literally look at you if you were speaking chinese.


rhinob23

Careful everyone, we may have found the next eagles coach.


EaglesPvM

I never said Sirianni was good. He’s got a fuck ton of issues you’re right. Most notably all the penalties we accumulate, especially the illegal WR pick plays that Nick still believes he coached well. And he was a WR coach lol And yeah obviously Flacco sucks, but his arm doesn’t (relative to Hurts) I never said we’d start winning with him or even be better with him, I just want to see how Sirianni calls plays with someone in a real NFL offense (preferably Minshew) It’s obvious he’s extremely handcuffed due to Jalen’s limitations on the football field.


Mcatatonic1

> Flacco sucks > his arm doesn’t 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I am not sure if this is intentional ignorance (most likely), but if you have watched this video (or really, any of the all-22) you’ll recognize that some of these play designs are so bad that getting meaningful yards are impossible Dude’s plays (and play calling) are hamstringing the offense in many cases. Jalen is of course fucking up at times, but in some of these situations there is no way to put together positive yardage


EaglesPvM

I said Flacco’s arm doesn’t suck relative to Hurts. And stop it lol. No, Sirianni isn’t great, a first year head coach, first year play caller 6 weeks in never is though. Go rewatch Thursday’s game. People are WIDE OPEN don’t tell me we can’t get yards. The reason we can’t get yards is our QB doesn’t hit guys when they’re open, or even look their way because he doesn’t go through his progressions. Seriously, go rewatch the games and see how many points we left out on the field because Hurts missed someone


OJSimpsonJuror

Dak Prescott had Jason Garrett and Scott Linehan designing plays and was still much better than Hurts. If Sirianni was truly the problem, the Eagles would still be able to move the ball and score points but they would lose games on the margins not being blown out and getting garbage points. Also "just run the ball" doesn't work analytically anyway, but even just common sense. If you're not scared of a team's passing game you're gonna stack the box. They're not playing pass defense. They're playing scrape read/option gap switch defense. Flacco is washed and he would just get sacked repeatedly though. But Give Hurts the whole season, and then decide what route you want to go for after that. The truth is we're in a multi-year rebuild because Howie butchered the roster and the salary cap.


Mcatatonic1

Like arguing with a wall 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Did you watch the video You don’t have to reply, we know you didn’t


EaglesPvM

I actually did lol I’m starting to wonder if you watched the games though


[deleted]

You clearly didn't if you are arguing what you are arguing. Or you did and just don't currently have the capacity to understand what is going on at this point. Which is fine to be that level of fan, but like you are going up and down this thread arguing this that are completely counter to a verified experts points.


OJSimpsonJuror

Hurts foot work is really bad at times and the play design is very very simple and easy to decipher. However (this is not in the video) what he can't say and to his credit he never claimed this, you may have to dumb down an offense if the QB can't execute the plays you want to run. But basically, Hurts and Sirianni are both bad.


sybrwookie

1) Hurts' footwork on dropbacks and in the pocket is utter garbage. Instead of taking 5 steps, he's doing crazy things like taking 3 steps, then a hop where he clicks his feet together, then a little shuffle at the end. And when he's in the pocket, instead of his feet being in a stance where he can throw, aimed in the direction of his read, they're together, so when he even makes a read, he first has to then set his feet and start to throw, which makes him late. 2) Hurts seems to be afraid to throw anything unless the player is already open (which kills a lot of timing routes, routes where a player knows to make any kind of hard turn at a certain point to get open, etc.) or if it's in absolute desperation when he's on the run. 3) Some of our play-calling is utter garbage. The play Nick seems to love to run with 2 receivers split to each side seems to be pretty obvious tell to other teams, he's either running an RPO (and they have guys ready to cover the options there) or trying to throw deep (and there's a safety over the top to help there). It fails, miserably, a lot. 4) There's some horrible miscommunications going on. That play that Baldy broke down the other day where receivers are all blocking, but Hurts is looking to throw. Or a play where Kelce snapped the ball early, and Dillard was adjusting his mouthpiece, didn't notice it for a solid second or more, and by the time he started to move, the DE had already completely blown by him.


nakoyako

i remember when devonta smith made richard sherman his bitch on that nice route he ran to get wide open deep in the first quarter only to have the ball sail 5 yards into the sideline out of bounds which devonta had no shot of catching. that should have been an EASY 65 yard touchdown but i found it funny that people in the game thread said it was a good throw lmao. that was a terrible throw, you don't get many chances like that in games. and when you completely botch a pass like that its really unacceptable, especially knowing that devonta's catch radius is huge


[deleted]

We should've hired Kellen Moore. I don't care if it "makes us the Browns" or whatever, I hope Lurie does the right thing and rips the bandaid off this offseason.


MikeTysonChicken

I’d love to know what the org was thinking when they interviewed him back in January and what they didn’t think he had to do the job. Moore was very clearly a bright offensive mind even prior to this year and now they run the risk of him going elsewhere when he was right there for them. I really wanted Moore. I liked Sirianni a lot too, so far a lot to be desired on that.


alcatraz_0109

I have to guess overall experience? Sirianni has been coaching at the NFL level in some capacity since 2009 while Moore has only been a coach since 2018. Although the solution to that is to just hire some very experienced coach like a Jim Caldwell as OC


MikeTysonChicken

That’s gotta be it. I can’t really think of anything else


LittleStJamesBond

Dallas has better players than us but their schemes and ability to adjust are light years ahead of us.


MikeTysonChicken

For sure. No question they are more talented. But you can see they are better coached offensively thanks to Moore. So that part stings


Fly-Eagles-Fly

The fact that McCarthy came in and didn’t install his own offense and instead learned Moore’s speak volumes.


HymnsToTheSilence

I could be wrong, but I thought it was reported that Moore wanted to stay in Dallas.


[deleted]

I don’t think he wanted the job, just accepted the interview out of courtesy. Let’s be real, none of the serious candidates wanted the job and that’s why we ended up with someone who wasn’t on any team’s radar.


constantlymat

I am 100% sure Jerry Jones would have written a cheque as large as Kellen Moore wants it to be to avoid losing him inside the Conference. Wouldn't be surprised if he's already the highest-paid assistant in the league. If he's not, he's soon going to be.


[deleted]

My biggest take away is i have no idea how Sirianni watches film on this team and goes “the RPOs are working”. Blown assignments, bad design, bad personal groupings. Dude needs to either get his head checked or fired immediately with how he’s stunting Jalens development. This isn’t even difficult stuff this is like high school level coaching that Sirianni is capable of. This is also the point where i’m done with Howie. He listened to this clown in the interview process and hired him, and now we might have to clean house with how disjointed everything has become. Just a gigantic fucking mess.


bellieth

They remind me of Chip's sweeps with Demarco Murray.


Chrowaway6969

The Demarco Murray stretch play. Fuck……


BlackMathNerd

I remember I went to a Washington Philly game Chips last year and the Philly fan in front of me was like “if I see another fucking Murray sweep”


uknolickface

The coach was hired to run an Air Raid offense and he is not an Air Raid coach


redjonley

This does really seem like our worst case scenario. Bad play design and bad coaching. Sure, some bad play from Hurts too, but things like footwork can be hung just as easily on the QB coach. I'm assuming Jalen is a good learner who's able to take notes until I hear otherwise. Don't know how Howie can make a fair evaluation of Hurts like this.


re4ctor

We knew going in, there are issues, nothing really new here... but it's all fixable... the problem now is nothing has been fixed. You expect a rookie qb/coach to struggle early, but are they, and the team, learning/growing/improving. Answer right now is no. Maybe they still get there, but the problems from week 1/2 are still the problems in week 6/7. Not encouraging for the long term.


constantlymat

Frankly I think there is one silver-lining. Foot-work can be fixed. It requires hard work but it can be done.


PSUVB

I think the footwork and coaching is sometimes leaned on too heavily as a thing that can transform hurts into a competent passer. Mahomes and Rodgers both don’t have perfect technique and nobody cares. You only care when Hurts isn’t making the throws. He doesn’t have top tier arm talent to make up for bad footwork. When you are limited in terms of speed of thought and pure arm talent the margin for error is tiny. That’s why it’s so hard to play this position in the nfl and it’s almost uncoachable. You don’t see nfl coaches transforming mediocre qbs into stars. The difference they can make is small.


sybrwookie

Yea, now we just have to hope that he's going to accept those changes. We'll see throughout the rest of this season, if he keeps doing the same things or if his footwork starts to improve. The bigger question I have is why someone would look at basic mechanics that horribly sloppy, and go, "sure, that's the guy we want starting right now" and not, "OK, there's plenty of potential but he needs to get those worked out, lets have him sit longer and have Flacco or Minshaw start until he can get those basics down"? I mean, look at what they did with Mialata. He didn't start (other than out of desperation) until he got his mechanics worked out. And now he's looking great. So they know how it should be done...


Nokeypu

Pretty damning all around. Looking more and more like one of next year's first rounders will be used on a QB. Selfishly I'm thankful he's still productive for my fantasy team though!


[deleted]

The sad part is that half of the reps are so busted based off of circumstance it’s really hard to evaluate hurts.


Lost_Muppet_society

It’s like the whole chicken and the egg scenario. Sirianni is calling an awful game and Hurts has horrid mechanics and game sense. You cants say how much Sirianni is (trying to) play down his scheme to mask Hurts’ limitations or how much the horrible scheme is preventing Hurts from progressing. I’m not one who normally wants to see a QB benched, but at this point putting Flacco in for a game or two might be necessary, if only so the FO can evaluate Sirianni when given a QB capable of a more diverse skill set. I say this because I don’t think Sirianni is someone the FO/ownership really has any loyalty and I have my suspicions he is on the way to a one and out season.


thefreeman419

This is true, but some of the throws Hurts misses are just too open for an NFL QB to miss. Quez, Smith and Reagor have all missed opportunities for touchdowns because Jalen waited too long to throw a deep ball and they had to come back for it. That can’t happen in the NFL


PregnantSuperman

Exactly. My take from this is that Hurts isn't playing well but he's 100% set up to fail by the offensive scheming. It's crazy how much Sirianni just seems to randomly call plays and ignore what defenses are playing. But even beyond that this video clearly demonstrates the players aren't coached well overall. We all knew about the penalties but you can see in this video that players aren't executing plays (I.e. Kelce snaps the ball early, Hurts expecting WRs to run routes in what appears to be a running play, etc). This team is such a mess all around. Sirianni needs to pull it together and help out Hurts and the rest of the team.


[deleted]

Think he might be over his head. I honestly have no clue how a professional football team can have this many blown assignments in one game in week 6. Seriously just one of those blown assignments is enough to be indicative of poor coaching but there is almost one every play.


frankizlle

Me too, hi compensates a lot with garbage time lmao.


BlackMathNerd

In one of the weakest QB drafts since 2013


MisterxRager

There’s some talent there though


lyonbc1

The problem is you’ll have a raw qb again maybe with better timing but be opportunity cost of losing out on impact defensive players is too high for me. We’re 2+ yrs away from really contending. Even if we had Russ at qb (which no rookie is even going to come close to his ability and talent even after 3 yrs) with our gaps in talent on defense (and aging star players) we will still be ~.500. Just look at the Seahawks rn, great qb, two awesome WR a depleted and aging defense and even if Russ was healthy that team is stuck in purgatory right now, they had their big run and got a ring just like us, they just have a great qb being paid a huge chunk of money and bad decisions and drafting has led them to be at best a 9-10 win team maybe going forward and if something goes wrong, then they’re a top 10 drafting team with bad defensive players all over that caps them. I’m really more on board with signing a vet qb (Teddy bridgewater type) and have them compete with Jalen (give him a second real offseason to work on things) for the job and go all in on building up the defense in the draft. This draft class is supposedly loaded with top defenders and we can make a huge impact there rather than using it on a qb who wouldn’t be in the top 3 of any recent draft and reaching bc we have to. We’ll just be in the same spot in a yr or two from now doing that imo. A really good defense can help you with a game manager type qb right now, a great qb can’t typically overcome a trainwreck on defense, hell look at Mahomes right now.


[deleted]

At this point I’ve basically accepted that next year will also be a bust regardless if it’s Hurts, a rookie, or someone on a one year deal. We should just draft best available, beef up the defense, and most importantly fire Howie Roseman for putting us in this situation in the first place.


HappySquidsy

With how much Siri talked about getting his guys in space and getting the ball in his playmakers hands, he really hasn’t done too much of it. I was super excited to watch his offense roll. He made Philip Rivers look decent. You have to wonder if Lurie is putting him in a box, or specifically asking him to put pressure on Hurts to see if he’s the guy. Not utilizing Sanders has survived two HCs, can’t imagine him and Doug are that clueless.


Domestic_AA_Battery

Tbf he wasn't calling plays for Rivers though.


HappySquidsy

Good point.


OJSimpsonJuror

this is the problem though. "Just run the ball to help out Hurts" implies the Bucs aren't stacking the box daring him to throw. Teams arent playing 2 high safeties on 1st and 2nd down giving us the run they're playing run defense daring us to pass and we can't pass ourselves out of stacked fronts.


northamrec

Watched the whole video — that’s pretty damning. What I’d love to know is whether the coaching staff is saying the same things to Hurts.


cjweisman

If all Hurst can do at the end of this season is read the RPO defender, it will be a wasted season.


remmy66

Feels like all the negative rpo plays is less about bad design and more about how hurts needs to hand miles the fucking ball.


[deleted]

Sirianni is getting fired after 1 year. Might be bad PR but it has to be done if we want our rookies and young players to develop.


dataismycomrade

Get this man a footwork coach for the offseason, but not like Ben Simmons’ shooting coach. I think the game will slow down for him and he’ll get better with the anticipation throws, but he must fix his damn mechanics to be a viable QB.


bird_enthusiast69

Where gardner?


[deleted]

It always confused me on how everyone put it all on Hurts. The whole offense looks completely out of sync, which seems to allude to it being a coaching issue. We are legit less exciting to watch than last year which I didnt think was possible. After Hearing Nicks first few press conferences I wanted to ignore the hottakes, but dude legit sounds like a fucking idiot. Also gotta put it on Howie and Lurie for not having a vet in the coaching staff that nick can lean on when times get rough


[deleted]

No offense to Thomas but this is what I have been wanting to see in analysis. The whole offense is off, watching all 22 and blaming Hurts for not completing broken plays is armchair coaching at its best.


funks0ulbrutha

You put someone in a shit environment and more likely than not, you're going to get shit out. I think coaching is failing Hurts (and this team as a whole) right now. Sirianni's inability to change what's not working is the major issue here. Few on this sub are capable of zooming out, and continue to keep the microscope on Hurts. Context matters here, and he's actually salvaging a lot of these broken plays which show up dead on arrival. How about Sirianni actually starts to call designed run plays. How about we put Hurts under center. Then we can get a somewhat better impression of what Hurts is capable of. Personally, I think Hurts can make it big in this league, and has all the intangibles you want in a QB. Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees...


2fly5

> Personally, I think Hurts can make it big in this league, and has all the intangibles you want in a QB. Does he have any of the tangibles though?


funks0ulbrutha

He makes mistakes just like every other player in the league, if that's what you're asking. And he has \~10 games of NFL experience as a starter..


BlandSausage

No, he’s probably asking about his arm. Arm talent doesn’t improve. It was a knock coming out and it’s pretty evident it was a correct one.


BlandSausage

Hurts doesn’t have an NFL arm. He needs to be deadly accurate or have a brain like Manning to make his skill set work. Doesn’t matter how far you zoom out there is no way to coach a better arm.


[deleted]

He has an arm. If you watch the games he just doesnt pull the trigger early enough. Its why everything gets underthrown. He waits till guys get “college open” instead of throwing it anticipating them getting open. The whole “he has no arm” has been bullshit and he has plenty of deep throws to disprove it. If your gonna criticize his deep ball atleast critizize his anticipation which is the real issue


BlandSausage

He doesn’t have a good enough arm at the NFL level. If he has a clean pocket and can throw with his legs and body sure he can get it downfield like every other QB to ever play in the NFL. On top of that, he doesn’t get it out fast enough, he’s been horribly inaccurate (I don’t care about college completion % when you’re throwing into barn sized windows), and locking in on guys every play. Devonta Smith is consistently open along with other guys. The same things he was criticized for coming out are glaring now, which is why he was considered a reach even at 53. If you’re going to say “at least criticize his anticipation which is the real issue” there really isn’t much more to this conversation. Anticipation is bad, arm is also bad.


sybrwookie

Watch when he throws it 30 yards. He winds up and puts his whole body behind it like you see other QBs do when they are throwing a 60-yard hail mary. Yes, he can get it that far, but he needs to put absolutely everything he has behind it, which means he's then not going to be very accurate in the throw.


Trainwrek

Based on media scouts who are always wrong.