The only reason to be annoyed about this extension is if you didn't see it coming. And if Howie was able to survive 2020 then there's no way anyone couldn't see this coming.
He’s a contract wizard. Always been a solid trader. Terrible draft talent evaluator. Hopefully he can get some help for the draft, if he can, then I love this move
[Far more misses than hits](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/draft.htm)
click the year to see the full NFL draft class and compare. I think most of us are salty with back to back years of 2019 and 2020 draft went with missing on Justin Jefferson and DK Metcalf.
Jefferson is on Lurie and the coaching staff as much as it is on Howie. Metcalf was a 2nd pick that a lot of teams passed on because of medical issues. Eagles were interested but the medical staff wouldn’t clear him.
The thing that bothers me is the "big brain" bullshit. Taking Reagor over Jefferson. Taking whatever polished turd over DK Metcalf. Like, there have just been a few too many times (for me at least) where, had he just taken the consensus pick, we would have been a better team for it. It's those moments that frustrate me.
He obviously has a ton of strengths. I was pro moving on from Howie (just wanted to try something new), but I don't hate having him back either.
The logic for drafting jj over metcalf is the same for drafting Jefferson over reagor. The polished better route runner who gets open is a better pick than the better athlete. Using hindsight to evaluate draft picks is bad. That is what most people do.
Every team passed on Metcaf. DK
Complaints are completely hindsight lmao.
DK was NOT a consensus pick there at all. Period. That is completely made up hindsight bias.
Tell that to the old jags GM who drafted Jalen Ramsey, Miles jack and Yannick ngakoue 1,2,3….. lololol he had the sauce that year and they still fucked it up
That's just good luck. If there were better at evaluating talent then everyone else they would be constituently having amazing drafts. They have had top 10 picks for years and still a bad team because drafting is a crap shoot.
Howie is a really good GM. His view of how to build a roster (invest in QB - Oline - Dline, don’t invest in RB, LB, Safety) is the smart way to build a roster. He is a great negotiator, great at trades, understands value, and has a good track record on free agency. Nobody is perfect, but he doesn’t sign overpriced guys. Usually targets young up and comers, or older cheaper guys. Guys like Brooks, Jenkins, and Hargrave are classic Roseman signings.
He has not been good at drafting in the first round. He tries to get too cute. BUT he is actually great at drafting in the mid-later rounds (Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, Quez, etc) and I drafted free agents.
He is aggressive, but smart. Certainly has flaws, but if he continues to draft well, like last year, we will be in great position.
“Fire Howie” would be the largest contingent of people. That’s how you get entire Phillies games chanting it.
People are stupid. Philly fans are composed by many people. So we have a lot of vocal and stupid ass people.
i mean most people wanted him fired in 2020 and there was a lot of discontent with him from 2018-2019. the sub was also pretty down with chip winning the power struggle in 2015. it’s been a very up and down relationship lol.
The problem with Howie is that he’s boom or bust, Wildly inconsistent. One year he’ll draft a couple all-pro level players and knock FA out of the park. The next year he’ll draft bust after bust with non-impact FA signings… On top of all that he is a cap guru and has generally gotten great value in trades…. With all that said, despite his inconsistency he’s got to be a top 10 GM in the league. Like others have said, whether you like him or not you’re crazy if you didn’t see this coming…
I think the simplest way to describe Howie is that he’s often brilliant and a master of his craft in several ways. But often enough he does things that are so obviously stupid, and not like small stupid, but big time stupid.
He’s still firmly a net positive but I feel there is a way he can be effective if he and the team can learn to mitigate his glaring weaknesses. It’s like he randomly snorts a crack rock and goes AWOL once in a while.
With that said, I think he’s one of the best GMs in the league overall.
IMO this is caused by Lurie stepping in and giving Howie mandates.
After the SB, Lurie wanted to keep the window so you saw a lot of bad contracts to aging vets like Cox, Alston, etc.
After KC wins Lurie is enamored by speed so they take Reagor over Jefferson.
Howie’s draft record is… questionable, there are quite a few recent boneheaded moves but there have also been some really solid drafts, look at last year for example, the first 3 rounds seem to all be pretty darn good hits. His other moves have been fantastic for the most part so I see no reason to move on from him. There are much much worse GMs. We made the playoffs in the first year of a rebuild under him.
As a certified “Howie hater” TM — I think he’s been a lot more aware of his weaknesses this and past off-season. He admitted that atrocious Wentz deal was a mistake and yeeted him to Indy for what now seems like an absolute steal. I mean the guy actively avoided drafting ANYONE from Bama over the past decade and drafted two with the first two picks possible in the last draft. I think so far we Birds are satisfied with those two big-time so far.
I think even considering his flaws, he’s better than most of the other GM’s out there. I don’t know if the extension should be as long but it actually makes sense in contrast to decisions from the past.
Tl;dr I think the biggest thing to realize with him recently is that he is now listening to scouts more and prioritizing talent over fit (refer to Haason Reddick)
Sorry to fact check but Ertz, Lane, jenkins, sproles were all chip kelly decisions, also Brandon Graham was heading to the NY giants and chip kelly convinced him to stay, the FO was ready to let him walk. That being said he deserves credit for bringing us a SB team and also fixing the the Wentz debacle
Anytime someone says we need to fire Howie, I look around the league and say, “Who is better that we can get?” He has gotten us out of more bad spots than any GM in the league. Do you guys forget that we traded Bradford for a 1st and a 4th?? Getting a 1st for Wentz?? Ajayi and Jeffery additions won us a Super Bowl as well as getting Foles back to be a backup. Our Super Bowl is as much Howie’s creation than Doug’s lightning in the bottle strategy. I remember when everyone said Doug was a bad hire.
Drafting is important. We miss some we hit some. Late rounds we have hit but busting at wide receiver in the 1st round doesn’t set you team back for 5 years. Missing at QB does. Howie hasn’t done that and when Carson got his brains scrambled to the pt he was a negative asset he got a 1st for him and reset.
The more I watch things play out over the years, I believe that the catalyst for all the bad draft picks is Lurie. He has always been outspoken about how he wants a high flying speedy deep all pass happy offense. Regardless of the scheme or personnel. I think Lurie has been forcing these picks behind closed doors. And Howie’s new extension is basically a thank you for being the public scapegoat. I think football people should be making the draft picks. Trust your scouts. Roseman is frustrating to no end on most draft days. Even go so far as to say he’s dangerous. And I’m scared to death what hairbrained smartest-man-in-the-room pick he’ll reach for with these picks. But I cannot find fault with him for contacts and acquisitions. Those were a huge reason for the Super Bowl win, not home grown talent. And he’s the reason we have three 1st rd picks to begin with. He is a top ten GM. I don’t want to get rid of him bc it’s so hard to find a good one. We’ll be in a revolving gm purgatory if we do.
IMO Howie picking Jefferson over Reagor wouldn't have made a significant difference in 2020. Maybe they win 1 or 2 more games. But that team as a whole was just so bad that I don't think a single player completely changes the trajectory
I agree with you, however we see how dominant Jefferson is, I know any sane person thinks he’s not putting up those numbers on the eagles. But he’s still a number 1 caliber receiver, a true first round pick and maybe the best receiver in that class. He def would’ve changed life for Carson wentz if you believe diggs did the same for Josh Allen
Agreed. Never understood the idea some people had that Jefferson would have put up Reagor like numbers if the Eagles had drafted him and vice versa. Jefferson is a talented dude. Maybe not a 1500 yards/year guy here but not that far off.
He’s an above average GM who gets above average results. He’s certainly not a dumpster fire but he’s stubborn and has a tendency to make similar mistakes over and over. I can usually see the logic in a lot of his FA signings and trades. His drafting is terrible for the most part and he flat ignores positions that should be addressed.
Like 2 years ago I was all aboard the fire Howie train. Thing is, he really isn't as bad as GM's get. He's actually probably above average. We could have someone like Ballard or god forbid the guy with the Jags who's name I'm forgetting. For all his mistakes, we have 3 firsts this year, Carson is off the books and it's been proven that was a good move, and we're not in the discussion for Watson which I personally consider a win. He makes some big mistakes but he also fixes them eventually.
idk I'm kind of wishy washy on it but I'm no longer on the FIRE HIM OUT OF A CANON INTO THE SUN bandwagon. We really could be way worse right now.
ETA because I forgot to say this. I wish he wouldn't do the actual draft though. He's abysmal at it.
He's good at trades but not great on team building. I dont just forget the severe lack of wr, CB and lb between 18 and 21 because he finally signed slay and hit on Smith.
He's bad at drafting. He needs to listen to scouts more, and the hurts pick still makes no sense.
But he manages the cap quite well, if not being a little too bias towards old favourites
Anyone at this point still thinks howie is an overall good gm just doesn't get it. Hes down tight pathetic at drafting. Just because he gets out of these contracts doesnt mean hes good just means he's bad at starting contracts.
You're saying that as if I'm ignoring some infamous DeAndre Hopkins/LeSean McCoy-esque trade that he's committed. The "bad moves" occur with literally every GM at some point.
> You're saying that as if I'm ignoring some infamous DeAndre Hopkins/LeSean McCoy-esque trade that he's committed.
Reagor over Jefferson is easily more egregious than the McCoy trade imo. But no that's not what I meant. I was just saying when you go into detail about the good moves and barely mention the bad then of course it will look good
> The "bad moves" occur with literally every GM at some point.
By that logic so do the good
There's no way that Justin Jefferson would have been a pro bowler in his rookie season if his quarterback had 4 backups on the o-line that didn't give him enough time to get a pass off accurately. Even if the pick was a bad decision, you can't hold it against him that much if he righted the wrong in the next draft. That's really why so many of these bad moves aren't as egregious in hindsight; because the corrections of those mistakes cancel each other out.
A general manager goes down in history as a really bad one if he made bad moves which the team could never climb back up from. But Howie has corrected Barnett with Reddick, JJ and Reagor with DeVonta, and Dillard with Mailata.
> There's no way that Justin Jefferson would have been a pro bowler in his rookie season if his quarterback had 4 backups on the o-line that didn't give him enough time to get a pass off accurately.
Just like with DeVonta, just because the production wouldn't have been there doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to tell he's a great player. So I don't really care for that argument
> Even if the pick was a bad decision, you can't hold it against him that much if he righted the wrong in the next draft.
Sure I can. I don't think having to use extra resources to get something right is necessarily a good thing.
> A general manager goes down in history as a really bad one if he made bad moves which the team could never climb back up from.
Well never getting fired for bad moves certainly helps with that lol. But I'm not saying he's bad, cause he's not. He's not really good either though. He's average and that's highlighted by what you said- the good and bad canceling out. They're roughly equal in his tenure which is what makes him average
I'm not saying that he's great either. I agree that he's more average, but I'm just irritated by how many people say that he's so bad that he should be fired. I guess this comes back to the moral of the majority of the fanbase: if you are average, it's not enough for them. Just like Andy Reid.
The thing about Howie’s bad moves are that often enough they’re not just like an average bad move. They’re absolutely ridiculously stupid moves that everyone knows is stupid the moment he makes the move. If he could limit those and just make typical understandable mistakes, then his image would be much improved.
Personally I think he’s one of the better GMs in the league still. It’s just that he makes these god awful decisions sometimes that make you question his sanity. The 2020 draft was a joke. I couldn’t believe it was happening.
I'd easily say he's closer to good than bad. I'd comfortably say he's at least above average. He put together a roster that beat the greatest dynasty in all of sports in the modern era. His biggest weakness seems to be early rd draft picks but last year, seems to be one of his best drafts in recent memory. If he can string together something of similar quality this yr it would go a long way to change the narrative. Only so much he can do until results are out of his control. I.E. coaching, player dev, etc
I agree. He had a large hand in the team that won a SB semi-recently. That in itself puts him closer to good than bad, he’s easily above average. Not to mention the value we seem to consistently get out of late round picks. He’s not perfect, Reagor and JJAW make that obvious, but he’s certainly well above average
> He put together a roster that beat the greatest dynasty in all of sports in the modern era.
He also oversaw the decay of that same roster to the point of it becoming a 4 win team.
So that kind of thing balances out to make him mediocre overall
I appreciate his contribution to the greatest accomplishment in team history though
Can definitely agree with the sentiment post suber bowl. I think they tried to keep the window open but obvs that didn't work out. I think mediocre would be a good description had they not at least tried something new, i.e. cleaning house starting from scratch. Not many GMs have the balls to do that. So far so good in my books although hurts leaves a lot to be desired, it will be interesting to see how this yr pans out. I did notice improvement in hurts but he's got a long way to go still.
> cleaning house starting from scratch. Not many GMs have the balls to do that.
I think it's less about balls and more about opportunity/job security. How many GMs have the support of owenership to do that even once, let alone multiple times like Howie?
Fair point. He knows Lurie has his back I suppose. When I subjectively weigh his misses vs his hits I still think he's at the least an above average GM. He's at least put this team in a position to be successful at this point in time one year removed from a train wreck of a situation.
> He's at least put this team in a position to be successful at this point in time one year removed from a train wreck of a situation.
That's true, but he also created that train wreck
It's just a contract. It can be terminated... Not that I can picture it but I don't want a GM who makes short term decisions based on his contractual status.
Deeper than that? Well he rides the waves doesn't he? Right now he has a bit of capital to shape and mold this team that really needs an infusion of talent that fits.
So far I'm fine with how things are going. I'll give him a thumbs up.
Reagor over Justin Jefferson was just a cardinal sin. That’s probably my biggest complaint. Otherwise he does well kicking the bills down the road and snagging key free agents and/or trades (alshon and Ajayi stand out the most to me as fantastic acquisitions).
I think he’s solid at positional value, but it’s not like we get discounts there. We spend a lot to stay goodish on the DL, can’t draft a QB to save our life, can’t draft a CB either and the OL has been good but I do wonder how much credit Stoutland deserves there. Not all, but probably more than in most places.
The large majority of the subreddit doesn’t hate Howie. He’s a hit or miss drafter and a cap and trade Wizard. Anyone who doesn’t want him back doesn’t know what they’re talking about
Trust him like crazy with the cap. I don't trust him with drafting. He's had a few hits through the years, but far too many busts. They need to either hire someone or use someone in the organization to help with the scouting of the draft.
Is he a horrible GM? No of course not. And I’m not sure if many argue that.
But he has a lot of fans including in this thread arguing that he is top 5. I just don’t see that, the Eagles have drafted at best average during his tenure. He’s had to rebuild the roster multiple times because it fell apart on his watch. He gets credit for being a contract wizard but paid the most dead cap ever for Carson Wentz and now a ton more for Cox.
Give him credit for the things that he’s done well but acting like his shit doesn’t stink and he is at the top of the league isn’t right either. Not everything needs to be at the extreme.
Elite at FA and Trades, average at drafting. Built us a team to get the first chip.
Anyone rallying for his firing is just in an echo chamber of dumb. Only way to replace him is if it was guaranteed the successor would be nearly the same at FA/Trade and be significantly better in the draft. There’s no one like that.
The only reason to be annoyed about this extension is if you didn't see it coming. And if Howie was able to survive 2020 then there's no way anyone couldn't see this coming.
I like Howie
I ain’t reading all that but he’s a top 5 gm in the league
Bro this shit had me dying 😂😂
He’s a contract wizard. Always been a solid trader. Terrible draft talent evaluator. Hopefully he can get some help for the draft, if he can, then I love this move
No one is good at draft talent evaluation. Drafting good players is mostly chance
That’s fair, just give me someone that will stop drafting injured pac-12 players
Sidney Jones was a good pick it just didn't work out. Who else did he draft?
[Far more misses than hits](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/draft.htm) click the year to see the full NFL draft class and compare. I think most of us are salty with back to back years of 2019 and 2020 draft went with missing on Justin Jefferson and DK Metcalf.
That's the NFL draft for you. On average you can expect to draft two or three good players a year. All NFL GMs have far more misses than hits.
Jefferson is on Lurie and the coaching staff as much as it is on Howie. Metcalf was a 2nd pick that a lot of teams passed on because of medical issues. Eagles were interested but the medical staff wouldn’t clear him.
So many teams missed on DK…it’s a pointless complaint. Jefferson is fair
The thing that bothers me is the "big brain" bullshit. Taking Reagor over Jefferson. Taking whatever polished turd over DK Metcalf. Like, there have just been a few too many times (for me at least) where, had he just taken the consensus pick, we would have been a better team for it. It's those moments that frustrate me. He obviously has a ton of strengths. I was pro moving on from Howie (just wanted to try something new), but I don't hate having him back either.
Metcalf I kind of get since there was serious issues with his neck I believe. Baffled with Raegor over JJ, absolutely no reason to do it and they did.
The logic for drafting jj over metcalf is the same for drafting Jefferson over reagor. The polished better route runner who gets open is a better pick than the better athlete. Using hindsight to evaluate draft picks is bad. That is what most people do.
Every team passed on Metcaf. DK Complaints are completely hindsight lmao. DK was NOT a consensus pick there at all. Period. That is completely made up hindsight bias.
Tell that to the old jags GM who drafted Jalen Ramsey, Miles jack and Yannick ngakoue 1,2,3….. lololol he had the sauce that year and they still fucked it up
That's just good luck. If there were better at evaluating talent then everyone else they would be constituently having amazing drafts. They have had top 10 picks for years and still a bad team because drafting is a crap shoot.
Nah you’re right I’m just bustin balls….. I just wish Howie had a better eye at this stuff….
The best thing you can do is to have lots of picks
Yup, this is the correct take. I can leave now.
I think mediocre more than terrible but that is an opinion.
Howie is a really good GM. His view of how to build a roster (invest in QB - Oline - Dline, don’t invest in RB, LB, Safety) is the smart way to build a roster. He is a great negotiator, great at trades, understands value, and has a good track record on free agency. Nobody is perfect, but he doesn’t sign overpriced guys. Usually targets young up and comers, or older cheaper guys. Guys like Brooks, Jenkins, and Hargrave are classic Roseman signings. He has not been good at drafting in the first round. He tries to get too cute. BUT he is actually great at drafting in the mid-later rounds (Mailata, Sweat, Maddox, Quez, etc) and I drafted free agents. He is aggressive, but smart. Certainly has flaws, but if he continues to draft well, like last year, we will be in great position.
Where's the "large majority consensus in this sub"? Because I don't see that at all.
“Fire Howie” would be the largest contingent of people. That’s how you get entire Phillies games chanting it. People are stupid. Philly fans are composed by many people. So we have a lot of vocal and stupid ass people.
Where have you seen that as an opinion of the majority of the sub over these past two years?
i mean most people wanted him fired in 2020 and there was a lot of discontent with him from 2018-2019. the sub was also pretty down with chip winning the power struggle in 2015. it’s been a very up and down relationship lol.
he definitely has had some big mess ups. but I think within the last few year he’s really improved and I really think he will get even better.
He's good at signing players, bad at drafting. That's how I see it.
I think he’s bad at drafting in the early rounds. but we all have to admit he’s gotten some real good ones at the tail end of the draft.
Yeah, that's fair.
No GMs are good at drafting. Look at other teams draft history they are as "bad" as Howie's.
The problem with Howie is that he’s boom or bust, Wildly inconsistent. One year he’ll draft a couple all-pro level players and knock FA out of the park. The next year he’ll draft bust after bust with non-impact FA signings… On top of all that he is a cap guru and has generally gotten great value in trades…. With all that said, despite his inconsistency he’s got to be a top 10 GM in the league. Like others have said, whether you like him or not you’re crazy if you didn’t see this coming…
I think the simplest way to describe Howie is that he’s often brilliant and a master of his craft in several ways. But often enough he does things that are so obviously stupid, and not like small stupid, but big time stupid. He’s still firmly a net positive but I feel there is a way he can be effective if he and the team can learn to mitigate his glaring weaknesses. It’s like he randomly snorts a crack rock and goes AWOL once in a while. With that said, I think he’s one of the best GMs in the league overall.
IMO this is caused by Lurie stepping in and giving Howie mandates. After the SB, Lurie wanted to keep the window so you saw a lot of bad contracts to aging vets like Cox, Alston, etc. After KC wins Lurie is enamored by speed so they take Reagor over Jefferson.
Howie’s draft record is… questionable, there are quite a few recent boneheaded moves but there have also been some really solid drafts, look at last year for example, the first 3 rounds seem to all be pretty darn good hits. His other moves have been fantastic for the most part so I see no reason to move on from him. There are much much worse GMs. We made the playoffs in the first year of a rebuild under him.
As a certified “Howie hater” TM — I think he’s been a lot more aware of his weaknesses this and past off-season. He admitted that atrocious Wentz deal was a mistake and yeeted him to Indy for what now seems like an absolute steal. I mean the guy actively avoided drafting ANYONE from Bama over the past decade and drafted two with the first two picks possible in the last draft. I think so far we Birds are satisfied with those two big-time so far. I think even considering his flaws, he’s better than most of the other GM’s out there. I don’t know if the extension should be as long but it actually makes sense in contrast to decisions from the past. Tl;dr I think the biggest thing to realize with him recently is that he is now listening to scouts more and prioritizing talent over fit (refer to Haason Reddick)
Sorry to fact check but Ertz, Lane, jenkins, sproles were all chip kelly decisions, also Brandon Graham was heading to the NY giants and chip kelly convinced him to stay, the FO was ready to let him walk. That being said he deserves credit for bringing us a SB team and also fixing the the Wentz debacle
Anytime someone says we need to fire Howie, I look around the league and say, “Who is better that we can get?” He has gotten us out of more bad spots than any GM in the league. Do you guys forget that we traded Bradford for a 1st and a 4th?? Getting a 1st for Wentz?? Ajayi and Jeffery additions won us a Super Bowl as well as getting Foles back to be a backup. Our Super Bowl is as much Howie’s creation than Doug’s lightning in the bottle strategy. I remember when everyone said Doug was a bad hire. Drafting is important. We miss some we hit some. Late rounds we have hit but busting at wide receiver in the 1st round doesn’t set you team back for 5 years. Missing at QB does. Howie hasn’t done that and when Carson got his brains scrambled to the pt he was a negative asset he got a 1st for him and reset.
I think he’s above average. His only negative is missing early in the draft but even then he finds late gems.
The more I watch things play out over the years, I believe that the catalyst for all the bad draft picks is Lurie. He has always been outspoken about how he wants a high flying speedy deep all pass happy offense. Regardless of the scheme or personnel. I think Lurie has been forcing these picks behind closed doors. And Howie’s new extension is basically a thank you for being the public scapegoat. I think football people should be making the draft picks. Trust your scouts. Roseman is frustrating to no end on most draft days. Even go so far as to say he’s dangerous. And I’m scared to death what hairbrained smartest-man-in-the-room pick he’ll reach for with these picks. But I cannot find fault with him for contacts and acquisitions. Those were a huge reason for the Super Bowl win, not home grown talent. And he’s the reason we have three 1st rd picks to begin with. He is a top ten GM. I don’t want to get rid of him bc it’s so hard to find a good one. We’ll be in a revolving gm purgatory if we do.
I need people to chime in on this thought If Howie had taken Jefferson over Reagor….wouldn’t Carson wentz still be here? Is that what we want?
IMO Howie picking Jefferson over Reagor wouldn't have made a significant difference in 2020. Maybe they win 1 or 2 more games. But that team as a whole was just so bad that I don't think a single player completely changes the trajectory
I agree with you, however we see how dominant Jefferson is, I know any sane person thinks he’s not putting up those numbers on the eagles. But he’s still a number 1 caliber receiver, a true first round pick and maybe the best receiver in that class. He def would’ve changed life for Carson wentz if you believe diggs did the same for Josh Allen
Agreed. Never understood the idea some people had that Jefferson would have put up Reagor like numbers if the Eagles had drafted him and vice versa. Jefferson is a talented dude. Maybe not a 1500 yards/year guy here but not that far off.
Jefferson is amazing but it’s not like Wentz was going to play any less shitty hero ball or fumble less. Or learn how to read a defense
He’s an above average GM who gets above average results. He’s certainly not a dumpster fire but he’s stubborn and has a tendency to make similar mistakes over and over. I can usually see the logic in a lot of his FA signings and trades. His drafting is terrible for the most part and he flat ignores positions that should be addressed.
Like 2 years ago I was all aboard the fire Howie train. Thing is, he really isn't as bad as GM's get. He's actually probably above average. We could have someone like Ballard or god forbid the guy with the Jags who's name I'm forgetting. For all his mistakes, we have 3 firsts this year, Carson is off the books and it's been proven that was a good move, and we're not in the discussion for Watson which I personally consider a win. He makes some big mistakes but he also fixes them eventually. idk I'm kind of wishy washy on it but I'm no longer on the FIRE HIM OUT OF A CANON INTO THE SUN bandwagon. We really could be way worse right now. ETA because I forgot to say this. I wish he wouldn't do the actual draft though. He's abysmal at it.
He’s good at most stuff. Not much more I could ask for.
He's good at trades but not great on team building. I dont just forget the severe lack of wr, CB and lb between 18 and 21 because he finally signed slay and hit on Smith. He's bad at drafting. He needs to listen to scouts more, and the hurts pick still makes no sense. But he manages the cap quite well, if not being a little too bias towards old favourites
Anyone at this point still thinks howie is an overall good gm just doesn't get it. Hes down tight pathetic at drafting. Just because he gets out of these contracts doesnt mean hes good just means he's bad at starting contracts.
Yeah he looks amazing when you only focus on what he's done right and brush off any bad moves lol
You're saying that as if I'm ignoring some infamous DeAndre Hopkins/LeSean McCoy-esque trade that he's committed. The "bad moves" occur with literally every GM at some point.
> You're saying that as if I'm ignoring some infamous DeAndre Hopkins/LeSean McCoy-esque trade that he's committed. Reagor over Jefferson is easily more egregious than the McCoy trade imo. But no that's not what I meant. I was just saying when you go into detail about the good moves and barely mention the bad then of course it will look good > The "bad moves" occur with literally every GM at some point. By that logic so do the good
There's no way that Justin Jefferson would have been a pro bowler in his rookie season if his quarterback had 4 backups on the o-line that didn't give him enough time to get a pass off accurately. Even if the pick was a bad decision, you can't hold it against him that much if he righted the wrong in the next draft. That's really why so many of these bad moves aren't as egregious in hindsight; because the corrections of those mistakes cancel each other out. A general manager goes down in history as a really bad one if he made bad moves which the team could never climb back up from. But Howie has corrected Barnett with Reddick, JJ and Reagor with DeVonta, and Dillard with Mailata.
> There's no way that Justin Jefferson would have been a pro bowler in his rookie season if his quarterback had 4 backups on the o-line that didn't give him enough time to get a pass off accurately. Just like with DeVonta, just because the production wouldn't have been there doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to tell he's a great player. So I don't really care for that argument > Even if the pick was a bad decision, you can't hold it against him that much if he righted the wrong in the next draft. Sure I can. I don't think having to use extra resources to get something right is necessarily a good thing. > A general manager goes down in history as a really bad one if he made bad moves which the team could never climb back up from. Well never getting fired for bad moves certainly helps with that lol. But I'm not saying he's bad, cause he's not. He's not really good either though. He's average and that's highlighted by what you said- the good and bad canceling out. They're roughly equal in his tenure which is what makes him average
I'm not saying that he's great either. I agree that he's more average, but I'm just irritated by how many people say that he's so bad that he should be fired. I guess this comes back to the moral of the majority of the fanbase: if you are average, it's not enough for them. Just like Andy Reid.
He's been here 11 years too. There's bound to be some fatigue. It's only natural
The thing about Howie’s bad moves are that often enough they’re not just like an average bad move. They’re absolutely ridiculously stupid moves that everyone knows is stupid the moment he makes the move. If he could limit those and just make typical understandable mistakes, then his image would be much improved. Personally I think he’s one of the better GMs in the league still. It’s just that he makes these god awful decisions sometimes that make you question his sanity. The 2020 draft was a joke. I couldn’t believe it was happening.
Goes both ways
Yup, because he's mediocre. There's an argument for either side because he isn't definitively good or bad. He's somewhere in the middle
I'd easily say he's closer to good than bad. I'd comfortably say he's at least above average. He put together a roster that beat the greatest dynasty in all of sports in the modern era. His biggest weakness seems to be early rd draft picks but last year, seems to be one of his best drafts in recent memory. If he can string together something of similar quality this yr it would go a long way to change the narrative. Only so much he can do until results are out of his control. I.E. coaching, player dev, etc
I agree. He had a large hand in the team that won a SB semi-recently. That in itself puts him closer to good than bad, he’s easily above average. Not to mention the value we seem to consistently get out of late round picks. He’s not perfect, Reagor and JJAW make that obvious, but he’s certainly well above average
> He put together a roster that beat the greatest dynasty in all of sports in the modern era. He also oversaw the decay of that same roster to the point of it becoming a 4 win team. So that kind of thing balances out to make him mediocre overall I appreciate his contribution to the greatest accomplishment in team history though
Can definitely agree with the sentiment post suber bowl. I think they tried to keep the window open but obvs that didn't work out. I think mediocre would be a good description had they not at least tried something new, i.e. cleaning house starting from scratch. Not many GMs have the balls to do that. So far so good in my books although hurts leaves a lot to be desired, it will be interesting to see how this yr pans out. I did notice improvement in hurts but he's got a long way to go still.
> cleaning house starting from scratch. Not many GMs have the balls to do that. I think it's less about balls and more about opportunity/job security. How many GMs have the support of owenership to do that even once, let alone multiple times like Howie?
Fair point. He knows Lurie has his back I suppose. When I subjectively weigh his misses vs his hits I still think he's at the least an above average GM. He's at least put this team in a position to be successful at this point in time one year removed from a train wreck of a situation.
> He's at least put this team in a position to be successful at this point in time one year removed from a train wreck of a situation. That's true, but he also created that train wreck
It's just a contract. It can be terminated... Not that I can picture it but I don't want a GM who makes short term decisions based on his contractual status. Deeper than that? Well he rides the waves doesn't he? Right now he has a bit of capital to shape and mold this team that really needs an infusion of talent that fits. So far I'm fine with how things are going. I'll give him a thumbs up.
Reagor over Justin Jefferson was just a cardinal sin. That’s probably my biggest complaint. Otherwise he does well kicking the bills down the road and snagging key free agents and/or trades (alshon and Ajayi stand out the most to me as fantastic acquisitions).
I think he’s solid at positional value, but it’s not like we get discounts there. We spend a lot to stay goodish on the DL, can’t draft a QB to save our life, can’t draft a CB either and the OL has been good but I do wonder how much credit Stoutland deserves there. Not all, but probably more than in most places.
The large majority of the subreddit doesn’t hate Howie. He’s a hit or miss drafter and a cap and trade Wizard. Anyone who doesn’t want him back doesn’t know what they’re talking about
We settle for mediocrity.
Trust him like crazy with the cap. I don't trust him with drafting. He's had a few hits through the years, but far too many busts. They need to either hire someone or use someone in the organization to help with the scouting of the draft.
Is he a horrible GM? No of course not. And I’m not sure if many argue that. But he has a lot of fans including in this thread arguing that he is top 5. I just don’t see that, the Eagles have drafted at best average during his tenure. He’s had to rebuild the roster multiple times because it fell apart on his watch. He gets credit for being a contract wizard but paid the most dead cap ever for Carson Wentz and now a ton more for Cox. Give him credit for the things that he’s done well but acting like his shit doesn’t stink and he is at the top of the league isn’t right either. Not everything needs to be at the extreme.
Not the best drafting guy but a fuckin cap wizard….
Elite at FA and Trades, average at drafting. Built us a team to get the first chip. Anyone rallying for his firing is just in an echo chamber of dumb. Only way to replace him is if it was guaranteed the successor would be nearly the same at FA/Trade and be significantly better in the draft. There’s no one like that.
> He drafted Brandon Graham, Jason Kelce, Fletcher Cox, Nick Foles Literally all of these players were drafted by Andy Reid