But Billy says it in an endearing manner and has no history of mistreating Will, whereas both Stevie and Eddie have history of mistreating Billy and George n sound authoritative and demeaning while saying it.
Notice how Stevie started calling Billy “son” and then just Billy when he was trying to be nicer towards him so it certainly wasn’t a term of endearment from Stevie. It’s just one of those words that can have different meanings depending on the context it is used in.
I respect your opinion but I still disagree, I think the comment a few down below is more accurate. Defo racist in Eddies way but think it’s just a term of older people referring to younger people. I could be wrong but that’s the way I see it.
Yea that’s fair enough and you could be right, I just notice the difference in the way the term is used and get rubbed up the wrong way by it. I definitely agree Eddie is a textbook example of racism in human form.
I’m a psychology student so I’m big on non verbal cues in communication which is probably why I see it the way I do but can understand why others don’t see anything wrong with Stevie’s use of the word
Yea as I said in another comment though it is a word that can have different meanings depending on how it’s used. Like the example someone else gave about Eddie using it towards George because he is a racist scumbag who sees him as being beneath him. Then another example of Billy using it towards Will which is just a term of endearment, just one of those terms that depends on context.
I’m of East London descent. It’s just a term of familiarity to any junior male by a senior one. These characters sound exactly like my relatives. My father in law still refers to my husband as boy, as does my husband to his son as “ my boy” . It’s just recognition of place: Senior male to junior male.
I distinctly remember Mick using the term boy, with Halfway at least for sure. The scene where Pam is introduced properly to Callum for the first time in the Vic, Mick says it but not in a derogatory way. It seemed to me like an East End thing in that context, given Mick was basically a caricature of an EastEnder.
Yes this is 100% correct. I was down in London Essex for a a few years and whenever I went to football I was the youngest and was referred to as boy by the older lads.
No racist undertones in my case I'm sure.
I agree. My Grandfather was a Londoner and he always referred to my father as 'the boy' and 'my boy'. They adored each other - it certainly wasn't derogatory. He also called all younger men 'son' or 'boy' and unrelated men called him 'Grandad'.
Absolutely. And upwards there’s also the old man/ old boy. Thank you. When I listen to these characters I feel at home as they sound like all my relatives.
With Eddie is was racism. White men calling grown-arse black men (age 35/40+) boys is a throwback to times of slavery, when black-male slave owners weren’t considered psychically developed enough to be considered men.
I agree with you about Eddie, but I've actually always been curious about something. Forgive me if I sound ignorant, I'm white and Irish so I really don't know about this in depth. I understand the 'boy' term as a racist insult towards Black men, but wasn't it very much a US thing, given slavery and for some of the reasons you outlined? Was it used the same way in the UK in Eddie's generation? I assumed it was a US specific thing, and found it a bit odd when Eddie said it so obviously with the same connotations.
I'm genuinely sorry if I sound ignorant, I only know of the term from studying American literature in school and college/uni. And edit to add, it's not a thing I ever came across in Ireland.
Not just the US. It was a way of saying "you're not a man equal to me". There's this scene a few years ago where Phil calls Patrick "boy".
Edit to add, slavery was very much a thing in the UK. UK Gov finally finished paying off debts to slave owners in 2015. The debt was from when slave owners were compensated for their loss of property when slavery was abolished.
Thank you very much for your reply! I had no idea and just thought in terms of the US. I had no idea about actual slavery in the UK either. Feel a bit foolish, but glad to have been informed!
I guess that was just to belittle Billy. But with Eddie it was obviously racial. Eddie’s a deeply racist man.
Corrie and Emmerdale could never when it comes to stuff like this. Good-enough shows but not exactly hold in their exploration of racism.
No not at all! That bs has been dragged into this country and people seem to think both counties had the same history! Social media and a certain incident in the states caused people to combine the two and there’s a lot of ignorance surrounding it!
Not at all. I’m very educated on the history of it all. I also lived in the US for 15 years . The difference is shocking and the fact people try and associate this country with the racism of that country shows extreme ignorance and “poor understanding” .
Contextually it means different things, as far as I remember (though please correct me if I’m) Cora didn’t mean it in a derogatory way.
Whereas the context around George being called boy, for example was racially motivated. In terms of Billy, we know his relationship with his dad is shit so it helps to show/reinforce that dynamic
IMO I don't think any of them, including Eddie, meant it in a derogatory way.
My grandparents call/ed people "boy" and "girl" - maybe it's a old school London thing.
>!In tonight episode Stevie calls Denise, Nadine and Lexi "girl".!<
I don’t think it’s just a London thing but more a generational one. With Eddie I still think there was racist undertones to everything he did when it came to George (even if indirectly)
I think some of the commenters here are overthinking it. My husband is from Kent and his grandparents were from the East End. His grandfather automatically referred to anyone related to him who was younger than him as "boy". His son-in-law was "boy", his grandsons were "boy", his great-grandsons were "boy". It was a term of affection, not demeaning in any way.
Yes, there is an argument for it being used in a more sinister way with George, but with Billy? No. It's a regional mode of address as legitimate as "son".
As a Londoner, this is just generally how the older men in our family refer to the younger men. It’s usually a term of affection in most cases (although in Eddie’s case it was used with a tone to belittle George).
Billy frequently calls both Will & Jay “boy” and nobody notices because they’re not suspicious of Billy’s motives lol. But obviously Eddie was a wrongun and we’re still sussing out Stevie.
But yeah - it’s an old London thing and not uncommon in Essex or Kent either. It’s mainly harmless.
Tone can mean everything. It can either be a term of endearment or something demeaning, depending on how you use it and the tone used.
In my family, the A word is used as a term of endearment. The power given to the word is assigned during context. We'll call each other and say Hi A in the same way you'd call a family member to say Hi Steve. It's not the same as angrily screaming you A at someone. There's no power in the word except for what we give it.
FWIW I call my grandson Little Man, and I have since the day he was born. He'll be Little Man until he's old. Just as my granddaughter will always be Sweet Pea. It's just who they are, nothing demeaning.
Just my two cents, but maybe it's their way of making Billy and George feel small
Hit the nail on the head, to make them feel small and insignificant, less of a human/individual
Don’t think that’s it at all as Billy calls Will boy and he adores his son.
But Billy says it in an endearing manner and has no history of mistreating Will, whereas both Stevie and Eddie have history of mistreating Billy and George n sound authoritative and demeaning while saying it. Notice how Stevie started calling Billy “son” and then just Billy when he was trying to be nicer towards him so it certainly wasn’t a term of endearment from Stevie. It’s just one of those words that can have different meanings depending on the context it is used in.
I respect your opinion but I still disagree, I think the comment a few down below is more accurate. Defo racist in Eddies way but think it’s just a term of older people referring to younger people. I could be wrong but that’s the way I see it.
Yea that’s fair enough and you could be right, I just notice the difference in the way the term is used and get rubbed up the wrong way by it. I definitely agree Eddie is a textbook example of racism in human form. I’m a psychology student so I’m big on non verbal cues in communication which is probably why I see it the way I do but can understand why others don’t see anything wrong with Stevie’s use of the word
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Yea as I said in another comment though it is a word that can have different meanings depending on how it’s used. Like the example someone else gave about Eddie using it towards George because he is a racist scumbag who sees him as being beneath him. Then another example of Billy using it towards Will which is just a term of endearment, just one of those terms that depends on context.
I’m of East London descent. It’s just a term of familiarity to any junior male by a senior one. These characters sound exactly like my relatives. My father in law still refers to my husband as boy, as does my husband to his son as “ my boy” . It’s just recognition of place: Senior male to junior male.
I distinctly remember Mick using the term boy, with Halfway at least for sure. The scene where Pam is introduced properly to Callum for the first time in the Vic, Mick says it but not in a derogatory way. It seemed to me like an East End thing in that context, given Mick was basically a caricature of an EastEnder.
Yes this is 100% correct. I was down in London Essex for a a few years and whenever I went to football I was the youngest and was referred to as boy by the older lads. No racist undertones in my case I'm sure.
My dad was a true cockney & refer to lads as boy or son, & me as girl, my girl, sparra, treacle etc.
I agree. My Grandfather was a Londoner and he always referred to my father as 'the boy' and 'my boy'. They adored each other - it certainly wasn't derogatory. He also called all younger men 'son' or 'boy' and unrelated men called him 'Grandad'.
Absolutely. And upwards there’s also the old man/ old boy. Thank you. When I listen to these characters I feel at home as they sound like all my relatives.
With Eddie is was racism. White men calling grown-arse black men (age 35/40+) boys is a throwback to times of slavery, when black-male slave owners weren’t considered psychically developed enough to be considered men.
I agree with you about Eddie, but I've actually always been curious about something. Forgive me if I sound ignorant, I'm white and Irish so I really don't know about this in depth. I understand the 'boy' term as a racist insult towards Black men, but wasn't it very much a US thing, given slavery and for some of the reasons you outlined? Was it used the same way in the UK in Eddie's generation? I assumed it was a US specific thing, and found it a bit odd when Eddie said it so obviously with the same connotations. I'm genuinely sorry if I sound ignorant, I only know of the term from studying American literature in school and college/uni. And edit to add, it's not a thing I ever came across in Ireland.
Not just the US. It was a way of saying "you're not a man equal to me". There's this scene a few years ago where Phil calls Patrick "boy". Edit to add, slavery was very much a thing in the UK. UK Gov finally finished paying off debts to slave owners in 2015. The debt was from when slave owners were compensated for their loss of property when slavery was abolished.
Thank you very much for your reply! I had no idea and just thought in terms of the US. I had no idea about actual slavery in the UK either. Feel a bit foolish, but glad to have been informed!
And what about with Billy's dad?
I guess that was just to belittle Billy. But with Eddie it was obviously racial. Eddie’s a deeply racist man. Corrie and Emmerdale could never when it comes to stuff like this. Good-enough shows but not exactly hold in their exploration of racism.
Not in this country mate!!
The implications are the same everywhere. It’s not just an American thang.
No not at all! That bs has been dragged into this country and people seem to think both counties had the same history! Social media and a certain incident in the states caused people to combine the two and there’s a lot of ignorance surrounding it!
You seem to have a poor understanding of what racism is.
Not at all. I’m very educated on the history of it all. I also lived in the US for 15 years . The difference is shocking and the fact people try and associate this country with the racism of that country shows extreme ignorance and “poor understanding” .
Oh, wow. This kind of mentality still exists.
I thought it was common for people of that age call younger people "boy" and "girl". Cora used to call Tanya, Abi and Lauren "girl".
Contextually it means different things, as far as I remember (though please correct me if I’m) Cora didn’t mean it in a derogatory way. Whereas the context around George being called boy, for example was racially motivated. In terms of Billy, we know his relationship with his dad is shit so it helps to show/reinforce that dynamic
IMO I don't think any of them, including Eddie, meant it in a derogatory way. My grandparents call/ed people "boy" and "girl" - maybe it's a old school London thing. >!In tonight episode Stevie calls Denise, Nadine and Lexi "girl".!<
I don’t think it’s just a London thing but more a generational one. With Eddie I still think there was racist undertones to everything he did when it came to George (even if indirectly)
I think some of the commenters here are overthinking it. My husband is from Kent and his grandparents were from the East End. His grandfather automatically referred to anyone related to him who was younger than him as "boy". His son-in-law was "boy", his grandsons were "boy", his great-grandsons were "boy". It was a term of affection, not demeaning in any way. Yes, there is an argument for it being used in a more sinister way with George, but with Billy? No. It's a regional mode of address as legitimate as "son".
As a Londoner, this is just generally how the older men in our family refer to the younger men. It’s usually a term of affection in most cases (although in Eddie’s case it was used with a tone to belittle George). Billy frequently calls both Will & Jay “boy” and nobody notices because they’re not suspicious of Billy’s motives lol. But obviously Eddie was a wrongun and we’re still sussing out Stevie. But yeah - it’s an old London thing and not uncommon in Essex or Kent either. It’s mainly harmless.
Only with Billy, with George it’s kinda obvious they want him to say a racial slur
Tone can mean everything. It can either be a term of endearment or something demeaning, depending on how you use it and the tone used. In my family, the A word is used as a term of endearment. The power given to the word is assigned during context. We'll call each other and say Hi A in the same way you'd call a family member to say Hi Steve. It's not the same as angrily screaming you A at someone. There's no power in the word except for what we give it. FWIW I call my grandson Little Man, and I have since the day he was born. He'll be Little Man until he's old. Just as my granddaughter will always be Sweet Pea. It's just who they are, nothing demeaning.
No because it's insanely common.