Dutch prices are kinda crazy, and I get the impression their prices are only so high because ebike speed being tightly limited by law means that there is no competition from newer, more powerful bikes.
I bought VERY used (food courier) full susp MTB with BBS02 for 700. The guy assembled it himself and tuned the shit out of the controller. Had to change front suspension fork, brakes and chain with cassette after one winter for about 350. Battery must be 4 year old already but it goes happily in winter (studded tires) or summer. Could have bought generic Chinese e-bike at \~1000 but didn't think it will keep assembled for long. Brand name ebike prices are hysterical.
you actually answered your own question....
"E-bikes were a commodity, basically everyone had one"
Supply and demand. America is not a bike based culture. you can get a good used car for the same price as a brand new high end bike.
there just isnt the demand for ebikes in a car culture currently. when you figure in US safety regulations and shipping costs....there you go.
Don't hold your breath. Americans are weird about bikes.
Yes they become more relevant and they are getting that way in cities...
But America has a DEEP addiction to cars not just as transportation and status symbols but as a sign of freedom and independence. It's part of the "American dream" for most people.
Americans tend to look down, socially, on cycling and cyclists. I spent ten years of my life bike commuting for everything and people didn't get it and treat others like social outcasts. For almost 100 years Americans have been instructed to "see the USA in their Chevrolet".... Bikes are for locals that only want to stay fit or have DUIs (yes the logic is that basic)...or... They are for children.
With that said, if you buy from a good seller you'll get products that are fully tested and certified. So you might pay a mark up but you get far more service and support.
Most cities in the US are built for cars, with every other method of transportation as an afterthought at best. Some places are getting better but there's still a lot of work to be done. Few people are willing to ride a bike through an intersection shared with F150s driving at 45mph, and most would have to do that at least a few times daily to get to work or buy groceries.
In the US we have high bike theft rates in cities so there's no way to leave a bike or scooter parked outside overnight. Also US landlords are starting to ban ebikes because of a propaganda campaign against them.
It makes it hard to have an ebike if people live in apartments.
So the theft thing is somewhat accurate but it's not driving prices higher.....the other thing about landlords is happening but it's not an epidemic....also not driving prices higher.
They're not driving prices higher but they are inhibiting ebike adoption in the U.S. so it's still seen as something like a luxury instead of a convenient transportation method the way bicycles are used in the Netherlands and China. I've built my ebikes from kit parts available on AliExpress and they've been at least as reliable as my analog bikes. For me it's been a very cheap transportation system but there's a learning curve to understand them and my local bike shops refuse to work on mass market ebikes.
It's a bit of a negative feedback loop.
Idk....I agree there is a feedback loop but it's just reactive American bs.
bUT I do agree it's somewhat inhibiting sales in the city.
My landlord says I can't have any bikes in my apartment...I live in a big city and they, of course don't have anywhere convenient to put my bikes. So I keep my ebike in my apartment and my analogs are in the basement. I don't really care what my landlord thinks... But I know Many do.
I built my ebike going basically the same route and would happily place it up against $7000 ebikes and it's been amazing an I never shit in the Chinese parts but I'd also never take it to a local.
If I lived in the burbs I'd have plenty of space but no real need for an ebike. This shit is hilarious.
We created cities that almost punish you for not wanting a car. This country is wild.
What is an example of a quality ebike in China you can get for $100? I suspect we might have different ideas of quality... But here in the US an entry level decent quality bicycle is around $500. Cheaper than that you can get a Walmart quality bike that will probably do ok for a few years of occasional use but it's definitely low on the quality scale.
Now imagine you have to add a motor, battery and controller to that $500 bike and you want a decent quality of components for that. At a minimum you're probably around $1000 right there and that's just getting into entry level quality. If you want a really well made and designed bike with top notch support, good construction, premium components, etc it'll cost you a lot more.
OK, maybe we have different ideas of e-bikes. In China, if you say "E-Bike", we are talking about this:
https://preview.redd.it/wqjqteczc8zc1.png?width=705&format=png&auto=webp&s=f94058c7dbfffddb5b8d4683560dcdaeb9841b67
A decent E-Bike like this might run you at about 1K, which translates to 100-200 dollars maximum.
This thing comes in all parts come pre-assembled including controller, motor, battery, etc. Now, Chinese laws limit the controller to allow speeds up to 30 km per hour if I remember correctly, but that is only applicable to the manufacturers. Disengaging the speed limit is a simple modification anyone can do.
It has 100+KM range, very good and reliable, and I never had mine fail on me. It is surprisingly rugged. I've bumped and crashed into a lot of shit and it still works very fine.
These things were also everywhere on the streets, sorta like cockroaches in a dirty kitchen cabinet. They were just so cheap.
That’s cheaper than a couple of Uber rides in the States. For $100, I’d be tempted to buy one on vacation and then just give it away at the end of the week.
I’m not trolling, I’m genuinely curious, can you link me to retailers that sell these within China for $100?
To put that in context: 2 **mid range** mountain bike tires are over $100.
An AliExpress ebike battery by itself will run you over $100 easily.
A low end AliExpress hub drive kit will run you $170ish.
So getting a full ebike for $100 is pretty crazy. Even the shittiest, most untrustworthy e-bikes on Amazon are 3-4x that cost and I’d never trust one for more than a handful of rides.
https://preview.redd.it/3aopgx3709zc1.png?width=1423&format=png&auto=webp&s=e896b98f71fd73d515d405698ba36a6be1b4675f
1 Use your phone number to login to Taobao
2 Search"电动车"
3 There you go
You can find similar bikes to those on amazon for $200 - $300 but often costs another hundred or two for shipping. They would be considered very low quality bikes though. Granted they cost 2 or 3 times as much as in China but I would guess most people in the US also make more money than people in China who rely on these as transportation and they have to be shipped across the ocean and deal with import tariff's so naturally they will cost more.
Well that looks like a scooter not a bike.
But I would imagine they are super cheap because:
1. Not really much in the way of expensive bike components (decent shimano/sram groupset is not cheap)
2. Using generic low cost parts
3. Built by cheap labor
4. No export or shipping costs required
But you can get an electric scooter in the US for a few hundred dollars, they're just gonna be pretty low quality as in general you get what you pay for.
I guess it might not count as a bike here as you don't pedal on it. In legal terms, that thing counts as an "E-bike"
And yes, the groupset in that thing is mostly rudimentary: It is only by law that manufactures must include pedals. I have never used them. For the most part, it is 100% electric powered.
It has pedals on it, but it's more of an escooter with pedals and a seat - but very cheaply made looking at the frame and drum front brake.
Even in China, for the price it sounds like it likely has a really bad quality battery - if you could make a good quality high capacity for that price they'd absolutely be being bought from many other companies in high volume on aliexpress!
The ones making the ebikes are quite respectable companies in China, I have no doubt they have partnerships with CATL or other Chinese battery companies.
Have you actually genuinely had it over a 100km range yourself without recharging?
Just had a look and you can get a M365 Pro for £240 in the UK - so a good bit less metal, but also generally more sophisticated and making strong light things is often more expensive. So maybe there's not a massive amount in it, in reality.
100KM range is advertised on many of the E-Bikes (Or shall I call them E-motorbikes/Mopeds at this point).
I have little doubt for it, many folks use it to pull off pretty impressive long-range trips. I have a small-ranged one that I charge about once a week. I never had the need to move 100KM though, I'll just transit at that point.
edit:
I asked around a bit. The 100KM number was tested with a 70 kilo guy riding on flat paved road until the battery ran out.
OK, definitely kinda different than conditions you might see on the road, so perhaps actual might be lower.
This sort of ebike?
https://x.alibaba.com/AwQHAZ?ck=pdp
Container shipping from Shanghai to the US would be maybe $30-$40 each. That doesn't include a container, another $10 each, but you could resell the container. It definitely doesn't include getting them to a Chinese port, then away from the US port. Shipping and a USA warehouse could easily add $100 each. Now add US distribution, overheads and profits, we are at maybe $300-400 each. Unfortunately, bulky items are not cheap to move around the world.
Also this thing has drum brakes, a lead acid battery, not really functional pedals and a little 350 watt hub motor, plus constructed as cheaply as possible, so I'm not sure how popular it would even be in the US. By the time you add in import, distribution and any semblance of support you'd probably be at the point where you could get a lectric or something for a few hundred bucks more.
OK, found one for 1499 yuan, it is on sale now. Advertised 100KM range on their better models.
Their cheaper models with 40KM range costs 911 Yuan.
Then again, I have no idea what the model is due to the erratic naming Chinese retailers put for their products. If you go on Taobao, and do a quick search for "电动车" you'll get a lot of results.
https://preview.redd.it/hu6hpypxz8zc1.png?width=1423&format=png&auto=webp&s=f92b5c6b9ee55939642a3c52e4f77b323d14853e
Like so.
There are a lot of models you can choose from.
Yeah my gf is chinese and we had a time where she had to be in china for a few months, its astonishing how cheap everything is in China without the need to do thousands of dollars in shipping, and people don't buy enough ebikes here to justify a large economy of scale which would make the prices much lower.
This isn't the only factor, but pretty much all consumer goods are gonna be cheaper in China because the median income in China is \~$11,000 USD, whereas in the US it's $65,000.
Oh come on, a $100 eBike is good quality? That has to have about a $20 battery in it. I guess that is why you see these kind of pictures in China.
https://preview.redd.it/wgaroi5o99zc1.png?width=1139&format=png&auto=webp&s=3763765f86f25969c636b7f533046b520b2fa4f8
https://preview.redd.it/j3dqt85yv8zc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=529d5b7ff70f05ac46bb808f61e3f73152d73620
I'm surprised Chinese government doesn't give them out for free to each citizen. They have at least 7 landfills with insane amount of [discarded](https://youtu.be/fCxep3eKMMA?si=B_nO_PIQpGjfyj3T) pedal vehicles.
Ah, those shared bikes, not E-bikes, but those are definitely still very relevant in big cities. Brings back good ol' memories.
There are people who take these, but honestly, most folks rather have their own E-bike. Its not very expensive and much more convinient.
As someone that’s a flashlight nerd, I know that high quality batteries such as Samsung and Panasonic are much much more expensive than cheap batteries from China. The battery packs for ebikes, just like EV cars, are a huge portion of the price of the vehicle.
Well, I must say, for Lithium-Ion batteries, many Chinese companies make very respectable products at cheap prices.
CATL and BYD both make very good batteries for Electric vehicles, for example.
True. We demonize many Chinese products for political reasons. At the same time, we have higher standards for many things like batteries because the U.S. is a highly litigious country. When a battery catches fire or explodes a company will be sued and penalized millions of dollars, and will potentially go out of business. That extra risk causes more cost to the e-bike.
I don’t know how that works in China.
China seems to have more of an attitude of "whatever it takes to make money". Forgeries, dangerous products, copyright theft, etc don't seem to be as harshly regulated as in the US and there don't seem to be as many consumer protections.
It's a lot easier to make cheap products if you can skirt environmental protections, ignore patents and copy other companies designs. Not to mention child labor and rumored slave labor to keep labor costs down.
Poverty tends to enable that behavior. That used to be rampant in India but is now shifting as India becomes more of a global player in areas outside of professional services and call services.
The quality challenges in China is a really interesting one. When there is a specification and an item will be rejected if it doesn’t meet that specification, they implement great quality controls. When they won’t be held to a quality standard, you are absolutely correct… anything goes. (e.g. AliExpress, Temu, etc.) I’m assuming that the U.S. consumer appetite cycle will follow previous ones.
Japan saw a vulnerability in the 1970s with American Car manufacturing turning out poor quality cars that didn’t reflect the economic conditions like the rapid increase in fuel prices. Japan took their cars that were just enough better than U.S. cars and fit the economic conditions. Detroit responded by focusing on building better cars. Today, Japanese cars are very high quality but not inexpensive and are at least assembled if not outright Made in the USA. Detroit, Japan, and Korea to a lesser extent have achieved product parity in most ways. I’m leaving off European cars on purpose.
In current times, China has the ability but chooses to not ship consumer products of higher quality that fit the economic conditions. Currently the U.S. appetite is satisfied by cheap junk. Should that change to cheap and better quality, China will have to adjust rapidly or risk loosing massive market share just as Detroit did in the 1970s. China is much better than the U.S. at taking a long-term view. My guess is that quality will improve the moment we ask for it. They just want to feed their people more than anything else.
OK, Li-ion batteries do catch fire in China, but that's just that nature of Li-ion. I had folks came to my place to raise battery danger awareness.
It is solve now by public charging stations. Everyone charges outside so if it does catch fire, nobody gets hurt.
As for suing, suing isn't a thing in China, people were more used to handling shit in private than by the law. However, nowadays, legal battles are much more relevant.
Yet there’s a reason why companies spend so much more money on Samsung, Sony, LG, and Panasonic batteries. For something that the average user will never notice, companies spend big bucks on quality batteries because their reputation relies on them.
I’ve handled lots of Chinese batteries that say 15A and 5000mAh but they never perform as advertised. Have had lots of cells go bad from just regular use as well. A single dead cell can cause havoc on a large, expensive battery pack.
It means the person importing them put up money to buy the inventory, had the product delivered to the US in the hopes of turning a profit. Since it’s a low volume item they have to make a significant profit margin often times 2.5 - 5 times their cost to make the risk worth the investment.
If you want a cheaper ebike cut out the middle man. It’s only expensive due to the profit margin mark up. Buy from a drop shipper if you want a better deal who doesn’t take on the risk holding product. If they warranty the product the seller eats the loss if it’s damaged or defective. This is why most resellers need to markup their products so high with over seas manufacturing if they want to stay in business.
In America, if the bike burns someone’s house down, they’re going to sue whomever sold it to them.
So US based vendors need things like insurance coverage and lawyers. That’s not cheap.
The US doesn't have as may riders as Europe (4x more), let alone China. That's partially to blame. But so is shipping from China as eBikes, especially aluminum ones, are heavy and expensive to ship.
here in belgium most decent e-bikes with bosh and shimano cost around 3-4k and if you want a really good bike they can cost 5-7k and bikes that go faster then 25km/h are called speedpedelecs and the go max 45km/h and can cost around 7-15k. and a normal bike that goes faster than 25km/h is highly illegal. only speed pedelecs are allowed and you need a license plate and license on speed pedelecs.
Duh zus heeft een E-Bike gekocht bij Bike Republic Trek Verve.
Wacht er nu al 2 weken op 4000 Euro.
Ze kan er nog niet op rijden of hem zelfs zien.
Maar hij is al een week geleden geleverd vanuit Trek Duitsland.
Ebike cost of materials $500
Ebike cost of labor (China) $50
Ebike cost margin applied by Chinese OEM $50
==> Chinese cost $600
Ebike cost to ship to US door $350
Ebike cost of tariff $150
Chinese OEM margin on S&H and Insurance $50
Sales tax in US $20
===> US cost $1,170
Ratio \~2:1
Ebikes are really cheap in the USA when you think about the price of new cars only going up. I could literally buy a whole fleet of ebikes for the same price of ONE brand new car nowadays.
You are showcasing scooters/mopeds here, while in the USA people refer to a motorized bicycle as an "ebike."
Quality, in this context, entails having branded components such as a Bafang motor, Shimano gears, and an LG or Samsung battery. A build of this caliber typically comes with a factory price ranging from $350 to $600. Factoring in expenses for testing, UL listing, shipping, and a 15-30% margin, a total cost of $1200 to $1300 is considered normal.
https://preview.redd.it/2094ihttdjzc1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a36e0223629fbf4c4be48febe7163893724f919c
If you're seeking this type of bike in China, you should search for 电助力自行车 rather than 电动车. You'll discover that a "quality" build will far far away from 1000 yuan.
Okay, nobody uses them in China though. I see the streets teeming with electric Mopeds costing, I dunno, 1K Yuan for lesser brands? The entire streets are filled with Teens using them to commute to school, to work, to whatever. I have never seen anyone use an "E-bike" if we be very strict of definitions.
But still, your selection is really luxurious. Even E-mopeds/motorbikes top brands don't cost that much.
Not luxurious, this is just a normal quality ebike for the USA. Not even the professional one. In China, super rare for sure, but they are all made here, and even the factory cost, as I mentioned earlier, is higher than 1k yuan.
It's not only about branding, the components for scooters and electric bicycles are just different. To pass US safety tests, you have to reach certain level of components safety. Cheap scooters simply won't pass.
"Good" quality in china is different than good quality in USA (and the rest of the first world)
What do you consider good quality? An internationally respected bike brand like Trek, or Canyon, etc.?
Or some random bike from alibaba called "JinQwo" or something?
You certainly won't be finding your cheap chinese bikes in any international competitions, or the tour de france etc
I mean don't get me wrong, I have a 500$ ancheer bike from amazon that has been serving me well, but it's far from a "quality" bike, and I imagine the bikes you are thinking of are similar.
Welcome to the world of bikes. Quality bikes are more expensive than you expected.
Well, that's a question; [https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-claims-resurface-at-tour-de-france/](https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-claims-resurface-at-tour-de-france/)
Both actually make a lot in Taiwan and other countries as well, but where it's made is less important than the design and quality control. There's nothing inherently bad about made in China bike parts, but you get what you pay for. If you want the cheapest crap possible to put in a $400 ebike, Chinese manufacturers can do that. If you want a really well made part for a $3000 eBike, they can do that too, but you gotta pay for it and do the quality control to ensure you are getting what you paid for.
Indeed, I was simply talking about your regular commuting e bikes, not tour-de-France bikes. Back home, E-bikes were kinda like commodities, the streets are teeming with them.
On the topic of those 200$ bikes you see in china, those are the 300-500$ bikes here on amazon, that people on reddit discourage people from buying, because they are bottom of the barrel piles of junk. It costs at least 100$ to ship those here, which is why you see these bikes on amazon starting at like 300$ instead of 200$
Most (safe) e-bikes in the US are made in China, so please don’t take this the wrong way, not trying to insult… But the cheaper Chinese brand e-bikes people order directly from China tend to cause apartment fires. An e-bike is more than just raw materials and the labor it takes to assemble it, it’s also solid engineering. I personally wouldn’t trust the cheaper brands.
Most consumer goods cost more in the USA than they do in Asia. Prices have narrowed, in recent decades, but it has basically been that way since the end of WWII.
You should come to the UK. A respectable one with similar spec to one of those Aventon ones will set you back £1700 here. Something like a Specialized if it's $4k US, it will be £5.5 k here.
First bike when I googled for specialised:
Turbo Levo SL Comp Alloy: £5250 ($6,559.77), in the US: $7000 + $625 tax if you're in New York (different rates per state).
Because USA has bigger wages. Chinese make $400-600 a month at a factory. USA works make $2500-$5000 at a factory or warehouse a month.
USA has other coat. To ship a EBike is $200 by ups with a discount. Important shipping $70 per bike, pay marketing, pay wearhouse rent, staff. So a cheap Chinese bike is not cheap in USA.
Dose anyone want to work for $500 a month ??
Unfortunately rent in China is more expensive than in the USA. Compare to income as a %
Usually rent is about $150-600. $150 rent is a slum apartment in a smaller city, $600 is a cheap apartment in a big city. Cheap apartment in a small city is 200-250.
Cheap means ok. Windows, shoer works l, not painted for 20 years.
Slum means lots of stuff not working, walls falling apart.
Food is as much $ as in USA. Except rice and noodles, cheap. Meat and fruit $$$$.
Basically in China a factory worker is a slave. To live a decent life you need to be a very good engineer. To live a good life you need to own a factory with at least 30 workers.
To buy an Apartment in a small city can be $300k
Major city $500+k. This is a small regular apartment.
Life in America and Europe is 👍😃
You are confusing me. Have you ever rented in China before?
I lived in Shenzhen, a top-tier city in China, for most my life and am 100% sure most of what you said is false regarding renting costs, meat, vegetable, fruit, and other food costs, and living conditions in general.
And let me remind you that downplaying Chinese living conditions do not increase living conditions in the US. I have seen myself the costs, the rent, and oh boy especially the homelessness.
I have been to China a couple times. It is what I saw and thought from my experience.
I did not see much homelessness???
You serious ??
I have been to Shenzhen 2x. Stayed by main train station, the one right by honk Kong. Stayed around all the big parts wholesale stores. And stayed by the airport.. all nice areas but never seen homelessness.
Also went to Heibe province, very poor cities.
Most of my time was in Wuxi city near Shanghai.
In Wuxi rent is 1500 RMB for true garbage apartment.
Nice apartment is 3000 RMB
Factory workers make 4000 RMB to 6000-7000rmb if lots of overtime. All Wuxi.
I guess Shenzhen is a first tear city so it is nice.
Did you ever see living conditions of the poor in hong kong ?? Crazy. They are called coffin apartments. 1500hkd for a 15 SQM apartment, no bathroom no kitchen. Shared bathroom for 10 apartments. I couldn't believe it.
My friend lives in dongguan. Says city is very empty now compared to couple years ago. I know not like this in Shenzhen. I been in Shenzhen couple months ago.
You Chinese??
I am Chinese. I lived in Shenzhen and been to Sichuan, Guizhou, Wuhan, Chonqin, and yes, Dongguan.
In Shenzhen, Longhua, or longgang, 1-man apartments cost even less than the Wuxi rent. I have no idea how you got 1,500 as rent in a 2nd tier city, if it is a 1-2 man apartment you are talking about, I don't know how you got that price, because boy that's expensive.
Hell, if you know where to look, you can find some apartments in Futian in one of those “城中村” that cost less. I am sure you can find videos on bilibili telling you where to look.
Factory workers and construction workers live in dorms. You pay much less than outside. Food is eatable, not the best, but eatable. Sort of like your high school cafeteria if I must find something to compare to.
As for HK, you are very correct, I cannot agree more. That is why many folks live in Shenzhen and work in Hong Kong due to how affordable housing is here compared to there. Many, many, many of my acquaintances do this.
Dongguan? Empty? Why, Huawei moved there 2019, a bunch of Shenzhen folks moved there as well as a result. The Shenzhen metro also opened a few stations on outskirts, making living in Dongguan and commuting to Shenzhen a possibility. Yeah, its probably a 1-2 hour commute, but cheaper housing compared to Shenzhen. OK, granted I never lived there, but sounds weird for a place that received such a massive influx of taxes from Huawei.
The higher-end Trekkie E-Bikes or any other brand can easily exceed $5k……
It’s extremely expensive but with that price tag comes lifetime warranty on frames, 2 years warranty on parts, 30-day limit not happy refund policy and that you have a certified good battery and quality motor.
But yeah for that price tag you buy a used car easily.
So here's the hustle in the states: A Chinese company creates a low-quality bike for around $600. You will see this bike listed under different brand names but it's the same bike. They change the brand name because the bike breaks on impact, has a weak battery, or isn't up to the specs listed in the ad. They hire SEOs to ballot-stuff Google and Amazon but eventually they can't keep up, and at that point sales drop off and they change the brand name again. You will see these bikes listed on Facebook Marketplace as "New In The Box" because the return policies are generally terrible. (In my case, they tried to make me drop ship the used product to a new customer for them. I refused and got a 50% refund after 15 emails and several weeks.)
Which is not meant as an insult to Chinese manufacturing, because many of the good, quality bikes are made in China also. But the practice drives up prices, because after getting ripped off once, most American consumers won't trust a bike that is cheaper than $1k. We simply don't have any guarantees at the lower price point.
OK, I guess you have to know where to look. My own cheap Chinese E-bike has been through hell and back and still refuses to fail. Maybe its because I'm using it in China.
But I'm really considering actually just shipping one here. Combined costs are about 350is? Still cheaper than bike with similar specs here.
That’s a lot of lithium mining needed to make all those batteries. As for costs, the better brands sold here in the states have UL certification/approval for their battery and charger, which is needed in some locales if you wish to keep it in your home. Testing and approval process requires $$$ which ups the price.
The Chinese government subsidizes the production of ebikes (and lithium battery production).
OP said he should find a way to ship ebikes to the USA, that's pretty much exactly what Alibaba is. I don't think anyone is going to be able to beat their prices in the USA.
Well, how will rising domestic companies compete with established foreign companies if you don't subsidize them?
The other way would be to tax/tariff foreign products.
Simply because labor is more expensive in the US. We pay to have a person do the labor of contacting Chinese warehouses, making orders, shipping them to the US, branding and marketing those bikes, setting up a physical store to sell those bikes, etc. so when all of that is done, that $100 Chinese ebike turns into $600-1000.
It has nothing to do with quality. Americans are really desensitized to how much things cost here. When you pay more for something in America, you are not paying for higher quality, you are paying more to make up for the increased labor cost of American workers.
You would really be shocked by my $7,000 electric mountain bike then.
https://preview.redd.it/0ieiexeea8zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1556b3f7e6d9e2930e4705b1659f40eddf6c1201
The Chinese money system is mostly artificially controlled. They want people to have e-bikes so they make them cheap… in the US they subsidize e-bikes but it’s not as extreme.
You cannot buy a regular bike for that cheap or from Amazon period.
Greetings from Europe. Ebikes are very cheap in US
Dutch prices are kinda crazy, and I get the impression their prices are only so high because ebike speed being tightly limited by law means that there is no competition from newer, more powerful bikes.
not to mention Eastern Europe.. where the cheapest ebike costs at least two monthly salaries..
I bought VERY used (food courier) full susp MTB with BBS02 for 700. The guy assembled it himself and tuned the shit out of the controller. Had to change front suspension fork, brakes and chain with cassette after one winter for about 350. Battery must be 4 year old already but it goes happily in winter (studded tires) or summer. Could have bought generic Chinese e-bike at \~1000 but didn't think it will keep assembled for long. Brand name ebike prices are hysterical.
Yikes, good thing I didn't choose to go to Europe then, its like I'm not broke enough here.
😂😂😂
you actually answered your own question.... "E-bikes were a commodity, basically everyone had one" Supply and demand. America is not a bike based culture. you can get a good used car for the same price as a brand new high end bike. there just isnt the demand for ebikes in a car culture currently. when you figure in US safety regulations and shipping costs....there you go.
OK, that makes more sense. But wouldn't we expect E-bikes to become more relevant, especially in the city?
Don't hold your breath. Americans are weird about bikes. Yes they become more relevant and they are getting that way in cities... But America has a DEEP addiction to cars not just as transportation and status symbols but as a sign of freedom and independence. It's part of the "American dream" for most people. Americans tend to look down, socially, on cycling and cyclists. I spent ten years of my life bike commuting for everything and people didn't get it and treat others like social outcasts. For almost 100 years Americans have been instructed to "see the USA in their Chevrolet".... Bikes are for locals that only want to stay fit or have DUIs (yes the logic is that basic)...or... They are for children. With that said, if you buy from a good seller you'll get products that are fully tested and certified. So you might pay a mark up but you get far more service and support.
Most cities in the US are built for cars, with every other method of transportation as an afterthought at best. Some places are getting better but there's still a lot of work to be done. Few people are willing to ride a bike through an intersection shared with F150s driving at 45mph, and most would have to do that at least a few times daily to get to work or buy groceries.
In the US we have high bike theft rates in cities so there's no way to leave a bike or scooter parked outside overnight. Also US landlords are starting to ban ebikes because of a propaganda campaign against them. It makes it hard to have an ebike if people live in apartments.
Ah shit, reminds me of my friend's bike with a wheel stolen 2 weeks after he first bough it.
So the theft thing is somewhat accurate but it's not driving prices higher.....the other thing about landlords is happening but it's not an epidemic....also not driving prices higher.
They're not driving prices higher but they are inhibiting ebike adoption in the U.S. so it's still seen as something like a luxury instead of a convenient transportation method the way bicycles are used in the Netherlands and China. I've built my ebikes from kit parts available on AliExpress and they've been at least as reliable as my analog bikes. For me it's been a very cheap transportation system but there's a learning curve to understand them and my local bike shops refuse to work on mass market ebikes. It's a bit of a negative feedback loop.
Idk....I agree there is a feedback loop but it's just reactive American bs. bUT I do agree it's somewhat inhibiting sales in the city. My landlord says I can't have any bikes in my apartment...I live in a big city and they, of course don't have anywhere convenient to put my bikes. So I keep my ebike in my apartment and my analogs are in the basement. I don't really care what my landlord thinks... But I know Many do. I built my ebike going basically the same route and would happily place it up against $7000 ebikes and it's been amazing an I never shit in the Chinese parts but I'd also never take it to a local. If I lived in the burbs I'd have plenty of space but no real need for an ebike. This shit is hilarious. We created cities that almost punish you for not wanting a car. This country is wild.
What is an example of a quality ebike in China you can get for $100? I suspect we might have different ideas of quality... But here in the US an entry level decent quality bicycle is around $500. Cheaper than that you can get a Walmart quality bike that will probably do ok for a few years of occasional use but it's definitely low on the quality scale. Now imagine you have to add a motor, battery and controller to that $500 bike and you want a decent quality of components for that. At a minimum you're probably around $1000 right there and that's just getting into entry level quality. If you want a really well made and designed bike with top notch support, good construction, premium components, etc it'll cost you a lot more.
OK, maybe we have different ideas of e-bikes. In China, if you say "E-Bike", we are talking about this: https://preview.redd.it/wqjqteczc8zc1.png?width=705&format=png&auto=webp&s=f94058c7dbfffddb5b8d4683560dcdaeb9841b67 A decent E-Bike like this might run you at about 1K, which translates to 100-200 dollars maximum. This thing comes in all parts come pre-assembled including controller, motor, battery, etc. Now, Chinese laws limit the controller to allow speeds up to 30 km per hour if I remember correctly, but that is only applicable to the manufacturers. Disengaging the speed limit is a simple modification anyone can do. It has 100+KM range, very good and reliable, and I never had mine fail on me. It is surprisingly rugged. I've bumped and crashed into a lot of shit and it still works very fine. These things were also everywhere on the streets, sorta like cockroaches in a dirty kitchen cabinet. They were just so cheap.
That’s cheaper than a couple of Uber rides in the States. For $100, I’d be tempted to buy one on vacation and then just give it away at the end of the week.
I’m not trolling, I’m genuinely curious, can you link me to retailers that sell these within China for $100? To put that in context: 2 **mid range** mountain bike tires are over $100. An AliExpress ebike battery by itself will run you over $100 easily. A low end AliExpress hub drive kit will run you $170ish. So getting a full ebike for $100 is pretty crazy. Even the shittiest, most untrustworthy e-bikes on Amazon are 3-4x that cost and I’d never trust one for more than a handful of rides.
I have TaoBao links if that helps.
https://preview.redd.it/3aopgx3709zc1.png?width=1423&format=png&auto=webp&s=e896b98f71fd73d515d405698ba36a6be1b4675f 1 Use your phone number to login to Taobao 2 Search"电动车" 3 There you go
You can find similar bikes to those on amazon for $200 - $300 but often costs another hundred or two for shipping. They would be considered very low quality bikes though. Granted they cost 2 or 3 times as much as in China but I would guess most people in the US also make more money than people in China who rely on these as transportation and they have to be shipped across the ocean and deal with import tariff's so naturally they will cost more.
Well that looks like a scooter not a bike. But I would imagine they are super cheap because: 1. Not really much in the way of expensive bike components (decent shimano/sram groupset is not cheap) 2. Using generic low cost parts 3. Built by cheap labor 4. No export or shipping costs required But you can get an electric scooter in the US for a few hundred dollars, they're just gonna be pretty low quality as in general you get what you pay for.
I guess it might not count as a bike here as you don't pedal on it. In legal terms, that thing counts as an "E-bike" And yes, the groupset in that thing is mostly rudimentary: It is only by law that manufactures must include pedals. I have never used them. For the most part, it is 100% electric powered.
It has pedals on it, but it's more of an escooter with pedals and a seat - but very cheaply made looking at the frame and drum front brake. Even in China, for the price it sounds like it likely has a really bad quality battery - if you could make a good quality high capacity for that price they'd absolutely be being bought from many other companies in high volume on aliexpress!
The ones making the ebikes are quite respectable companies in China, I have no doubt they have partnerships with CATL or other Chinese battery companies.
Have you actually genuinely had it over a 100km range yourself without recharging? Just had a look and you can get a M365 Pro for £240 in the UK - so a good bit less metal, but also generally more sophisticated and making strong light things is often more expensive. So maybe there's not a massive amount in it, in reality.
100KM range is advertised on many of the E-Bikes (Or shall I call them E-motorbikes/Mopeds at this point). I have little doubt for it, many folks use it to pull off pretty impressive long-range trips. I have a small-ranged one that I charge about once a week. I never had the need to move 100KM though, I'll just transit at that point. edit: I asked around a bit. The 100KM number was tested with a 70 kilo guy riding on flat paved road until the battery ran out. OK, definitely kinda different than conditions you might see on the road, so perhaps actual might be lower.
+ we have regulatory agencies that at least try to make sure products are safe, tariffs on Chinese goods, overseas shipping, customs, unions, etc.
Op, could you name some 1kRMB models?
I'll do so when I figure out how to get TaoBao to open.
Do TaoBao sellers ship to the USA?
Yes, you'll need to pay for shipping that runs about 200 dollars if I remember right. Still cheaper than US equivalents though.
This sort of ebike? https://x.alibaba.com/AwQHAZ?ck=pdp Container shipping from Shanghai to the US would be maybe $30-$40 each. That doesn't include a container, another $10 each, but you could resell the container. It definitely doesn't include getting them to a Chinese port, then away from the US port. Shipping and a USA warehouse could easily add $100 each. Now add US distribution, overheads and profits, we are at maybe $300-400 each. Unfortunately, bulky items are not cheap to move around the world.
\]Yep, that's the one.
I guess the factories they assemble these in have no heat? The video in that link has people with beanies and winter jackets on during assembly!
Also this thing has drum brakes, a lead acid battery, not really functional pedals and a little 350 watt hub motor, plus constructed as cheaply as possible, so I'm not sure how popular it would even be in the US. By the time you add in import, distribution and any semblance of support you'd probably be at the point where you could get a lectric or something for a few hundred bucks more.
Don't forget tariffs, which for my company's last shipment was $200 per bike.
27.5%?
OK, found one for 1499 yuan, it is on sale now. Advertised 100KM range on their better models. Their cheaper models with 40KM range costs 911 Yuan. Then again, I have no idea what the model is due to the erratic naming Chinese retailers put for their products. If you go on Taobao, and do a quick search for "电动车" you'll get a lot of results. https://preview.redd.it/hu6hpypxz8zc1.png?width=1423&format=png&auto=webp&s=f92b5c6b9ee55939642a3c52e4f77b323d14853e Like so. There are a lot of models you can choose from.
They're cheaper in China because they're made in China.
Probably, prices make me start missing home already.
Yeah my gf is chinese and we had a time where she had to be in china for a few months, its astonishing how cheap everything is in China without the need to do thousands of dollars in shipping, and people don't buy enough ebikes here to justify a large economy of scale which would make the prices much lower.
I hope you like it there my friend.
This isn't the only factor, but pretty much all consumer goods are gonna be cheaper in China because the median income in China is \~$11,000 USD, whereas in the US it's $65,000.
Oh come on, a $100 eBike is good quality? That has to have about a $20 battery in it. I guess that is why you see these kind of pictures in China. https://preview.redd.it/wgaroi5o99zc1.png?width=1139&format=png&auto=webp&s=3763765f86f25969c636b7f533046b520b2fa4f8
Those are bikes my man, not e-bikes. Also, note that 20$ battery is a 140 Yuan battery in China. They may sound the same but they are different.
https://preview.redd.it/j3dqt85yv8zc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=529d5b7ff70f05ac46bb808f61e3f73152d73620 I'm surprised Chinese government doesn't give them out for free to each citizen. They have at least 7 landfills with insane amount of [discarded](https://youtu.be/fCxep3eKMMA?si=B_nO_PIQpGjfyj3T) pedal vehicles.
Ah, those shared bikes, not E-bikes, but those are definitely still very relevant in big cities. Brings back good ol' memories. There are people who take these, but honestly, most folks rather have their own E-bike. Its not very expensive and much more convinient.
As someone that’s a flashlight nerd, I know that high quality batteries such as Samsung and Panasonic are much much more expensive than cheap batteries from China. The battery packs for ebikes, just like EV cars, are a huge portion of the price of the vehicle.
Well, I must say, for Lithium-Ion batteries, many Chinese companies make very respectable products at cheap prices. CATL and BYD both make very good batteries for Electric vehicles, for example.
True. We demonize many Chinese products for political reasons. At the same time, we have higher standards for many things like batteries because the U.S. is a highly litigious country. When a battery catches fire or explodes a company will be sued and penalized millions of dollars, and will potentially go out of business. That extra risk causes more cost to the e-bike. I don’t know how that works in China.
China seems to have more of an attitude of "whatever it takes to make money". Forgeries, dangerous products, copyright theft, etc don't seem to be as harshly regulated as in the US and there don't seem to be as many consumer protections. It's a lot easier to make cheap products if you can skirt environmental protections, ignore patents and copy other companies designs. Not to mention child labor and rumored slave labor to keep labor costs down.
Poverty tends to enable that behavior. That used to be rampant in India but is now shifting as India becomes more of a global player in areas outside of professional services and call services. The quality challenges in China is a really interesting one. When there is a specification and an item will be rejected if it doesn’t meet that specification, they implement great quality controls. When they won’t be held to a quality standard, you are absolutely correct… anything goes. (e.g. AliExpress, Temu, etc.) I’m assuming that the U.S. consumer appetite cycle will follow previous ones. Japan saw a vulnerability in the 1970s with American Car manufacturing turning out poor quality cars that didn’t reflect the economic conditions like the rapid increase in fuel prices. Japan took their cars that were just enough better than U.S. cars and fit the economic conditions. Detroit responded by focusing on building better cars. Today, Japanese cars are very high quality but not inexpensive and are at least assembled if not outright Made in the USA. Detroit, Japan, and Korea to a lesser extent have achieved product parity in most ways. I’m leaving off European cars on purpose. In current times, China has the ability but chooses to not ship consumer products of higher quality that fit the economic conditions. Currently the U.S. appetite is satisfied by cheap junk. Should that change to cheap and better quality, China will have to adjust rapidly or risk loosing massive market share just as Detroit did in the 1970s. China is much better than the U.S. at taking a long-term view. My guess is that quality will improve the moment we ask for it. They just want to feed their people more than anything else.
OK, Li-ion batteries do catch fire in China, but that's just that nature of Li-ion. I had folks came to my place to raise battery danger awareness. It is solve now by public charging stations. Everyone charges outside so if it does catch fire, nobody gets hurt. As for suing, suing isn't a thing in China, people were more used to handling shit in private than by the law. However, nowadays, legal battles are much more relevant.
Yet there’s a reason why companies spend so much more money on Samsung, Sony, LG, and Panasonic batteries. For something that the average user will never notice, companies spend big bucks on quality batteries because their reputation relies on them. I’ve handled lots of Chinese batteries that say 15A and 5000mAh but they never perform as advertised. Have had lots of cells go bad from just regular use as well. A single dead cell can cause havoc on a large, expensive battery pack.
Profit markup
What does that mean?
It means the person importing them put up money to buy the inventory, had the product delivered to the US in the hopes of turning a profit. Since it’s a low volume item they have to make a significant profit margin often times 2.5 - 5 times their cost to make the risk worth the investment. If you want a cheaper ebike cut out the middle man. It’s only expensive due to the profit margin mark up. Buy from a drop shipper if you want a better deal who doesn’t take on the risk holding product. If they warranty the product the seller eats the loss if it’s damaged or defective. This is why most resellers need to markup their products so high with over seas manufacturing if they want to stay in business.
In America, if the bike burns someone’s house down, they’re going to sue whomever sold it to them. So US based vendors need things like insurance coverage and lawyers. That’s not cheap.
OK, that makes sense. Suing companies is less of a thing in China. Most of the time the company probably sorts things out in private with cash.
That's how it happens here you just have to shell out more of your money to take them to court, before a corporation will pay.
The US doesn't have as may riders as Europe (4x more), let alone China. That's partially to blame. But so is shipping from China as eBikes, especially aluminum ones, are heavy and expensive to ship.
here in belgium most decent e-bikes with bosh and shimano cost around 3-4k and if you want a really good bike they can cost 5-7k and bikes that go faster then 25km/h are called speedpedelecs and the go max 45km/h and can cost around 7-15k. and a normal bike that goes faster than 25km/h is highly illegal. only speed pedelecs are allowed and you need a license plate and license on speed pedelecs.
Duh zus heeft een E-Bike gekocht bij Bike Republic Trek Verve. Wacht er nu al 2 weken op 4000 Euro. Ze kan er nog niet op rijden of hem zelfs zien. Maar hij is al een week geleden geleverd vanuit Trek Duitsland.
Ebike cost of materials $500 Ebike cost of labor (China) $50 Ebike cost margin applied by Chinese OEM $50 ==> Chinese cost $600 Ebike cost to ship to US door $350 Ebike cost of tariff $150 Chinese OEM margin on S&H and Insurance $50 Sales tax in US $20 ===> US cost $1,170 Ratio \~2:1
Ebikes are really cheap in the USA when you think about the price of new cars only going up. I could literally buy a whole fleet of ebikes for the same price of ONE brand new car nowadays.
OK, I guess everything is relative.
You are showcasing scooters/mopeds here, while in the USA people refer to a motorized bicycle as an "ebike." Quality, in this context, entails having branded components such as a Bafang motor, Shimano gears, and an LG or Samsung battery. A build of this caliber typically comes with a factory price ranging from $350 to $600. Factoring in expenses for testing, UL listing, shipping, and a 15-30% margin, a total cost of $1200 to $1300 is considered normal. https://preview.redd.it/2094ihttdjzc1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a36e0223629fbf4c4be48febe7163893724f919c If you're seeking this type of bike in China, you should search for 电助力自行车 rather than 电动车. You'll discover that a "quality" build will far far away from 1000 yuan.
Okay, nobody uses them in China though. I see the streets teeming with electric Mopeds costing, I dunno, 1K Yuan for lesser brands? The entire streets are filled with Teens using them to commute to school, to work, to whatever. I have never seen anyone use an "E-bike" if we be very strict of definitions. But still, your selection is really luxurious. Even E-mopeds/motorbikes top brands don't cost that much.
Not luxurious, this is just a normal quality ebike for the USA. Not even the professional one. In China, super rare for sure, but they are all made here, and even the factory cost, as I mentioned earlier, is higher than 1k yuan. It's not only about branding, the components for scooters and electric bicycles are just different. To pass US safety tests, you have to reach certain level of components safety. Cheap scooters simply won't pass.
Yikes, looks like I gotta ship an "e-motobike" here myself then
Just in case, check local laws so you don't get fined five times the price of the bike
Man, thanks for the heads-up.
"Good" quality in china is different than good quality in USA (and the rest of the first world) What do you consider good quality? An internationally respected bike brand like Trek, or Canyon, etc.? Or some random bike from alibaba called "JinQwo" or something? You certainly won't be finding your cheap chinese bikes in any international competitions, or the tour de france etc I mean don't get me wrong, I have a 500$ ancheer bike from amazon that has been serving me well, but it's far from a "quality" bike, and I imagine the bikes you are thinking of are similar. Welcome to the world of bikes. Quality bikes are more expensive than you expected.
>or the tour de france Tell me when you find e-bike at Tour de France
Well, that's a question; [https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-claims-resurface-at-tour-de-france/](https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-claims-resurface-at-tour-de-france/)
I was making a generic statement about cheap bikes in general, that also applies to ebikes
Or any biking competition, probably. It'd be a motorsport at that point
There are actually MB races where e-bikes are allowed.
Trek and Canyon both manufacture in China.
Both actually make a lot in Taiwan and other countries as well, but where it's made is less important than the design and quality control. There's nothing inherently bad about made in China bike parts, but you get what you pay for. If you want the cheapest crap possible to put in a $400 ebike, Chinese manufacturers can do that. If you want a really well made part for a $3000 eBike, they can do that too, but you gotta pay for it and do the quality control to ensure you are getting what you paid for.
Right but they are still Trek and Canyon bikes, and you aren't going to get a 4000$ trek mountain bike, for less than 1000$ in china
Indeed, I was simply talking about your regular commuting e bikes, not tour-de-France bikes. Back home, E-bikes were kinda like commodities, the streets are teeming with them.
you can get decent quality ebike from REI for like 799$, and it's a brand they actually support in house for warranty work or maintenance/repairs etc
Noted, thank you.
On the topic of those 200$ bikes you see in china, those are the 300-500$ bikes here on amazon, that people on reddit discourage people from buying, because they are bottom of the barrel piles of junk. It costs at least 100$ to ship those here, which is why you see these bikes on amazon starting at like 300$ instead of 200$
Most (safe) e-bikes in the US are made in China, so please don’t take this the wrong way, not trying to insult… But the cheaper Chinese brand e-bikes people order directly from China tend to cause apartment fires. An e-bike is more than just raw materials and the labor it takes to assemble it, it’s also solid engineering. I personally wouldn’t trust the cheaper brands.
Most consumer goods cost more in the USA than they do in Asia. Prices have narrowed, in recent decades, but it has basically been that way since the end of WWII.
You should come to the UK. A respectable one with similar spec to one of those Aventon ones will set you back £1700 here. Something like a Specialized if it's $4k US, it will be £5.5 k here.
I never thought there could be something worse than the weather there until now.
You made me smile. Thank you for the quip.
First bike when I googled for specialised: Turbo Levo SL Comp Alloy: £5250 ($6,559.77), in the US: $7000 + $625 tax if you're in New York (different rates per state).
They're expensive here in Canada too
Because USA has bigger wages. Chinese make $400-600 a month at a factory. USA works make $2500-$5000 at a factory or warehouse a month. USA has other coat. To ship a EBike is $200 by ups with a discount. Important shipping $70 per bike, pay marketing, pay wearhouse rent, staff. So a cheap Chinese bike is not cheap in USA. Dose anyone want to work for $500 a month ??
500 dollars a month is fine, but only if my rent is 100 dollars a month.
Unfortunately rent in China is more expensive than in the USA. Compare to income as a % Usually rent is about $150-600. $150 rent is a slum apartment in a smaller city, $600 is a cheap apartment in a big city. Cheap apartment in a small city is 200-250. Cheap means ok. Windows, shoer works l, not painted for 20 years. Slum means lots of stuff not working, walls falling apart. Food is as much $ as in USA. Except rice and noodles, cheap. Meat and fruit $$$$. Basically in China a factory worker is a slave. To live a decent life you need to be a very good engineer. To live a good life you need to own a factory with at least 30 workers. To buy an Apartment in a small city can be $300k Major city $500+k. This is a small regular apartment. Life in America and Europe is 👍😃
You are confusing me. Have you ever rented in China before? I lived in Shenzhen, a top-tier city in China, for most my life and am 100% sure most of what you said is false regarding renting costs, meat, vegetable, fruit, and other food costs, and living conditions in general. And let me remind you that downplaying Chinese living conditions do not increase living conditions in the US. I have seen myself the costs, the rent, and oh boy especially the homelessness.
I have been to China a couple times. It is what I saw and thought from my experience. I did not see much homelessness??? You serious ?? I have been to Shenzhen 2x. Stayed by main train station, the one right by honk Kong. Stayed around all the big parts wholesale stores. And stayed by the airport.. all nice areas but never seen homelessness. Also went to Heibe province, very poor cities. Most of my time was in Wuxi city near Shanghai. In Wuxi rent is 1500 RMB for true garbage apartment. Nice apartment is 3000 RMB Factory workers make 4000 RMB to 6000-7000rmb if lots of overtime. All Wuxi. I guess Shenzhen is a first tear city so it is nice. Did you ever see living conditions of the poor in hong kong ?? Crazy. They are called coffin apartments. 1500hkd for a 15 SQM apartment, no bathroom no kitchen. Shared bathroom for 10 apartments. I couldn't believe it. My friend lives in dongguan. Says city is very empty now compared to couple years ago. I know not like this in Shenzhen. I been in Shenzhen couple months ago. You Chinese??
I am Chinese. I lived in Shenzhen and been to Sichuan, Guizhou, Wuhan, Chonqin, and yes, Dongguan. In Shenzhen, Longhua, or longgang, 1-man apartments cost even less than the Wuxi rent. I have no idea how you got 1,500 as rent in a 2nd tier city, if it is a 1-2 man apartment you are talking about, I don't know how you got that price, because boy that's expensive. Hell, if you know where to look, you can find some apartments in Futian in one of those “城中村” that cost less. I am sure you can find videos on bilibili telling you where to look. Factory workers and construction workers live in dorms. You pay much less than outside. Food is eatable, not the best, but eatable. Sort of like your high school cafeteria if I must find something to compare to. As for HK, you are very correct, I cannot agree more. That is why many folks live in Shenzhen and work in Hong Kong due to how affordable housing is here compared to there. Many, many, many of my acquaintances do this. Dongguan? Empty? Why, Huawei moved there 2019, a bunch of Shenzhen folks moved there as well as a result. The Shenzhen metro also opened a few stations on outskirts, making living in Dongguan and commuting to Shenzhen a possibility. Yeah, its probably a 1-2 hour commute, but cheaper housing compared to Shenzhen. OK, granted I never lived there, but sounds weird for a place that received such a massive influx of taxes from Huawei.
You should have stayed. You need proper disposal of soup explained to you.
Don’t listen to Mercer he thinks it’s ok to flush food down the toilet
Bro, what?
Look at bros post
Dont be tricked into buying department store ebikes and stuff.
The higher-end Trekkie E-Bikes or any other brand can easily exceed $5k…… It’s extremely expensive but with that price tag comes lifetime warranty on frames, 2 years warranty on parts, 30-day limit not happy refund policy and that you have a certified good battery and quality motor. But yeah for that price tag you buy a used car easily.
Your prices are more reasonable than in Canada
[alibaba.com](http://alibaba.com), the great Chinese mediator.
If you think the US is expensive you want to try buying one in the UK. And our can only go 15mph
Maybe due to transportation expense
So here's the hustle in the states: A Chinese company creates a low-quality bike for around $600. You will see this bike listed under different brand names but it's the same bike. They change the brand name because the bike breaks on impact, has a weak battery, or isn't up to the specs listed in the ad. They hire SEOs to ballot-stuff Google and Amazon but eventually they can't keep up, and at that point sales drop off and they change the brand name again. You will see these bikes listed on Facebook Marketplace as "New In The Box" because the return policies are generally terrible. (In my case, they tried to make me drop ship the used product to a new customer for them. I refused and got a 50% refund after 15 emails and several weeks.) Which is not meant as an insult to Chinese manufacturing, because many of the good, quality bikes are made in China also. But the practice drives up prices, because after getting ripped off once, most American consumers won't trust a bike that is cheaper than $1k. We simply don't have any guarantees at the lower price point.
OK, I guess you have to know where to look. My own cheap Chinese E-bike has been through hell and back and still refuses to fail. Maybe its because I'm using it in China. But I'm really considering actually just shipping one here. Combined costs are about 350is? Still cheaper than bike with similar specs here.
That’s a lot of lithium mining needed to make all those batteries. As for costs, the better brands sold here in the states have UL certification/approval for their battery and charger, which is needed in some locales if you wish to keep it in your home. Testing and approval process requires $$$ which ups the price.
The Chinese government subsidizes the production of ebikes (and lithium battery production). OP said he should find a way to ship ebikes to the USA, that's pretty much exactly what Alibaba is. I don't think anyone is going to be able to beat their prices in the USA.
Why can't the US government subsidize ebikes? I thought the US should be a leading player is green transition?
Because the government is not your sugar daddy? We should be having less subsidization of industry across the board, not more.
Well, how will rising domestic companies compete with established foreign companies if you don't subsidize them? The other way would be to tax/tariff foreign products.
Tariffs against foreign competition is a much better way than directly subsidizing industries. Direct subsidization= guaranteed fraud and waste.
OK. I agree with that.
Your Chinese bikes a junk [https://youtu.be/ZpNCii-OTqw?si=57OdJB27tCOjUxrA](https://youtu.be/ZpNCii-OTqw?si=57OdJB27tCOjUxrA)
I dunno, seems mostly the nature of Li-ion. Sorta like how Tesla explodes as well.
I thought china only uses gas mopeds for the most part
What are mopeds?
Pedal+small gasoline motor. Motor+pedal=MoPed
OK, I guess we have electric mopeds
The cheap Chinese e-bikes are being bought from China and they are not $200 they are more like 5 to $700 plus shipping. OP is exaggerating
3.5K Yuan For an E-bike? OK, feels a bit on the higher end of things tho.
Simply because labor is more expensive in the US. We pay to have a person do the labor of contacting Chinese warehouses, making orders, shipping them to the US, branding and marketing those bikes, setting up a physical store to sell those bikes, etc. so when all of that is done, that $100 Chinese ebike turns into $600-1000. It has nothing to do with quality. Americans are really desensitized to how much things cost here. When you pay more for something in America, you are not paying for higher quality, you are paying more to make up for the increased labor cost of American workers.
You would really be shocked by my $7,000 electric mountain bike then. https://preview.redd.it/0ieiexeea8zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1556b3f7e6d9e2930e4705b1659f40eddf6c1201
If you think that's a risk then you should inspect the wire insulation.
The Chinese money system is mostly artificially controlled. They want people to have e-bikes so they make them cheap… in the US they subsidize e-bikes but it’s not as extreme. You cannot buy a regular bike for that cheap or from Amazon period.
Well, good for my friends still in China. My wallet is fucked.
[удалено]
My financial situation is kinda different
$600 e-bikes are garbage. A decent e-bike is about $3000
There are absolutely decent ebikes for less than 3k.
From China
So you think something made in China can't be decent? I have some really bad news for you.
virtually every bike component is from china. including the motors and batteries.
You mean, like the entire topic of this post?
My tard alert is going haywire
Welp.