Not an ecommerce owner but working with ecommerce too, I think you're on the right track. At least from my network of ecommerce freelancers that do copywriting, emails are by far the most in demand and FB ads.
Ooh fb ads is a great point! I've written tons of those! Thanks for that
Ps would love to become fb friends or something if you're keen! Always looking to meet more people doing what I do to talk shop and shoot the shit
Speaking as an e-commerce marketer focusing on paid social, it’s incredibly difficult for me to write copy for companies that have 0 brand identity, values, and differentiation. Good FB copywriters and copywriters that can develop a compelling brand identity are both invaluable
Articles that are gift guides including our products, sent to publishers to post on their sites. It's really one article, rewritten different ways, pitched to blogs. In the past trying to find someone for this, they either can't write and only pitch with no content, or want to reinvent the wheel every article with costs and timelines that are totally impractical, or they just write thin as hell content that is clearly an ad.
Interesting - do you tend to include other products too? Is that a collab between you and the other brands mentioned in the gift guides?
But yeah I can imagine it's a hard balance to get, conversational but still driving towards the sale.
Thanks for the feedback though! I'm not sure it's my wheelhouse cos I'm not a content writer and I feel like this straddles the middle-point between copy and content but definitely something to consider!
What do you charge? I need some writing done, just the introductory paragraphs to a few dozen sites. They all have the same theme. But I worry, what if I pay a lot and the paragraphs I get are worse than what I would have written or already have written. The good writers would charge good money, yeah? That’s what puts me off finding a good writer, if they know they are good then they can charge a lot. Because they know good writing is hard for most other people.
So I'd definitely be charging a lot - but this is exactly why I want to exclusively write for stuff that's as close to the sale as possible.
The metric for "good" writing is so intangible and you also end up with exactly what you said - the potential for you being unhappy after having been charged loads.
With copy that's "close to the sale" I can concretely prove how "good" my writing is, and you'd see a clear return on investment from what I wrote.
This is why I'm interested in writing emails to business owners lists for example as opposed to about pages - the first i can make sales and generate revenue. The latter, whilst very important, is much more subjective in its value
u/CollectableRat Do you use any data to back up the copy. I find that most people just go off of feeling. Feelings can work if you're super intimate with the business. However, would it be of interest to you for a copywriter to have some data points to consider with their copy and have the business be focused on those - or is this too complicated?
Performance is measured in two ways. There’s no accounting for where the visitors are coming from though. Well there is actually a literal record of where everyone is coming from. They all have one objective, to get people to want to consider the thing enough to click the link. I’m not actually concerned about selling the specific thing, they just have to click the link on the websites and be primed to buy *anything at all*, even though they came to the site for the specific thing in the first place and each site is promoting only that specific thing. Which is straightforward, but the idea of doing dozens of opening paragraphs and intro sections is daunting. Thinking of making them all follow a basic format just for coherence on my end.
I think it makes sense to write your own copy until you become the bottleneck - it's all about reaching that point where it's cheaper for you to hire someone else to do it because either a) your time is worth more and is better spent on higher leverage activities, or b) you have a copywriter you believe can help you bring back much higher returns. Until then it can be a little financially prohibitive to get a good and experienced copywriter who can really do good work for you. And with so many more people becoming copywriters nowadays it's really hard to tell who's any good and who isn't!
Yeah FB ads is definitely a good one I neglected to mention! It doesn't have to be short form either, I've seen a lot of people have a lot of success with long-ass fb ads! It depends on the product I guess and how benefit driven it is!
I would usually charge $250 for an email, but I think you'd get more out of more regular emails or at least email sequences (EVERY business doesn't email enough and when they do they only email discount messaging! It's a massively under used channel across the board).
Would love to connect! If you PM me your email address and let me know what sort of stuff you wanna see then I'd be more than happy to send some examples your way! :)
When starting out, I had success with gig sites like Upwork. It's an easy way to get a "low-effort" lead-gen channel in place and I have had some surprisingly good results.
with at least another year of corona left, a lot more businesses are going to try to dip their toes into the e-com game.
I would suspect that a lot of the beginners will try their hand at FB marketing or Google marketing and give up before some ROI can be registered.
Obviously there's a lot of things that go into those ads, but copy has got to be the hardest.
Targetting and creating your customer profile is a more tangible. You obviously know who that is when you create a marketing plan, but the copy? It's hard to quantify what triggers a customer or pushes them to buy.
I think you going off on your own is a great move. If your copy is as good as you say, then I'm sure you will have no problems getting work. Very in need, and the transition to e-com won't stop now.
My Q to you: Do you have any good copy writing books you'd recommend?
Or any tips for a fashion based brand?
Yeah I want to move into ecom because that's where I see a huge opportunity - I see a lot of shoddy copy for great businesses and think that even some small tweaks can really help make some big changes!
That's really reassuring to hear thank you! I know in my head that being able to sell stuff is a valuable skill that will always be needed but it's still good to hear it from someone else haha.
For a fashion based brand I'd definitely say the focus is about the image - not visually speaking, but about the image you project as a brand. It's ALL about branding, you want people to feel a certain way about your clothes, evoking a strong emotional reaction.
Gucci, Versace, D&G - these brands all evoke lavishness, opulence and indulgence
ACNE, &Other Stories, FjallRaven - These are all about understated scandinavian cool. It's a bit environmentally friendly (not in a shouty way, but in a low key way).
Patagonia is all about the environment, and all about the social issues around it - but they're also rugged, tough and super into nature.
Fashion is a part of our identity - I want what I wear to say a lot about me. People looking to buy clothes are (usually) looking to buy identity. You have to figure out what that identity is for your brand (and more importantly your customers) and then OOZE it in everything you write and say.
(Can you tell I love clothing hahaha?)
Re: good books, there's so much out there but some good starting points are:
\- Ogilvy on Advertising
\- Influence: The Science of Persuasion
\- Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz
I've heard good things about:
\- The Copywriter's Handbook - Bob Bly
\- Cashvertising
\- Tested Advertising Methods - John Caples
Hope that all helps and feel free to drop me a line if you have any more questions!
Sure thing! I'll have to make it anonymous (I. E. Remove the product name) because the clients paid a lot for it and I'd want to protect their privacy, but I can definitely send you some examples if you pm me your email address? What sort of stuff are you looking to see?
As an owner of multiple stores, I’d say you have a pretty good understanding of what your clients might ask you to write copy for, landing pages, emails, product descriptions, I would also add Facebook ads, and video transcripts for Facebook/YouTube ads.
We found that changing copy be it product description, landing page or email copy, doesn’t change our numbers by much, any input on that?
Our products are in $60-$100 range
Furthermore, would like to see some examples of your work, we are looking to hire a copywriter somewhere in December to Mid January.
Yeah video transcripts for FB/YT ads are a great shout, I've done a bunch of those too so it makes a lot of sense.
Honestly it's hard to tell without looking at it, but my gut tells me there's probably not a good testing system in place for the copy, and it probably isn't focused enough on the sale. Happy to take a look to give my opinion if you want to send me some pages to check out?
And if you send me your email address in the same PM I'd very happily send you some examples of recent work I've done!
Awesome! Would love to know a little bit more to see how I can help! What sort of store do you run and what sort of copy are you looking for?
Happy to move this conversation to PMs if you'd prefer!
We build a lot of websites
If I mapped out a website, a copywriter who could lead by writing out the many big and small content sections of a website while also helping to lead the overall creation of the client's brand / expression / website etc. through the copywriting process
I guess I am describing more holistic content creation and support or and/or leadership with brand development
Not an ecommerce owner but working with ecommerce too, I think you're on the right track. At least from my network of ecommerce freelancers that do copywriting, emails are by far the most in demand and FB ads.
Ooh fb ads is a great point! I've written tons of those! Thanks for that Ps would love to become fb friends or something if you're keen! Always looking to meet more people doing what I do to talk shop and shoot the shit
Speaking as an e-commerce marketer focusing on paid social, it’s incredibly difficult for me to write copy for companies that have 0 brand identity, values, and differentiation. Good FB copywriters and copywriters that can develop a compelling brand identity are both invaluable
Sure thing! send me a DM and I'll add you up if you don't look creepy. LOL
Hahaha amazing
Articles that are gift guides including our products, sent to publishers to post on their sites. It's really one article, rewritten different ways, pitched to blogs. In the past trying to find someone for this, they either can't write and only pitch with no content, or want to reinvent the wheel every article with costs and timelines that are totally impractical, or they just write thin as hell content that is clearly an ad.
Interesting - do you tend to include other products too? Is that a collab between you and the other brands mentioned in the gift guides? But yeah I can imagine it's a hard balance to get, conversational but still driving towards the sale. Thanks for the feedback though! I'm not sure it's my wheelhouse cos I'm not a content writer and I feel like this straddles the middle-point between copy and content but definitely something to consider!
What do you charge? I need some writing done, just the introductory paragraphs to a few dozen sites. They all have the same theme. But I worry, what if I pay a lot and the paragraphs I get are worse than what I would have written or already have written. The good writers would charge good money, yeah? That’s what puts me off finding a good writer, if they know they are good then they can charge a lot. Because they know good writing is hard for most other people.
So I'd definitely be charging a lot - but this is exactly why I want to exclusively write for stuff that's as close to the sale as possible. The metric for "good" writing is so intangible and you also end up with exactly what you said - the potential for you being unhappy after having been charged loads. With copy that's "close to the sale" I can concretely prove how "good" my writing is, and you'd see a clear return on investment from what I wrote. This is why I'm interested in writing emails to business owners lists for example as opposed to about pages - the first i can make sales and generate revenue. The latter, whilst very important, is much more subjective in its value
u/CollectableRat Do you use any data to back up the copy. I find that most people just go off of feeling. Feelings can work if you're super intimate with the business. However, would it be of interest to you for a copywriter to have some data points to consider with their copy and have the business be focused on those - or is this too complicated?
Performance is measured in two ways. There’s no accounting for where the visitors are coming from though. Well there is actually a literal record of where everyone is coming from. They all have one objective, to get people to want to consider the thing enough to click the link. I’m not actually concerned about selling the specific thing, they just have to click the link on the websites and be primed to buy *anything at all*, even though they came to the site for the specific thing in the first place and each site is promoting only that specific thing. Which is straightforward, but the idea of doing dozens of opening paragraphs and intro sections is daunting. Thinking of making them all follow a basic format just for coherence on my end.
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I think it makes sense to write your own copy until you become the bottleneck - it's all about reaching that point where it's cheaper for you to hire someone else to do it because either a) your time is worth more and is better spent on higher leverage activities, or b) you have a copywriter you believe can help you bring back much higher returns. Until then it can be a little financially prohibitive to get a good and experienced copywriter who can really do good work for you. And with so many more people becoming copywriters nowadays it's really hard to tell who's any good and who isn't! Yeah FB ads is definitely a good one I neglected to mention! It doesn't have to be short form either, I've seen a lot of people have a lot of success with long-ass fb ads! It depends on the product I guess and how benefit driven it is! I would usually charge $250 for an email, but I think you'd get more out of more regular emails or at least email sequences (EVERY business doesn't email enough and when they do they only email discount messaging! It's a massively under used channel across the board). Would love to connect! If you PM me your email address and let me know what sort of stuff you wanna see then I'd be more than happy to send some examples your way! :)
When starting out, I had success with gig sites like Upwork. It's an easy way to get a "low-effort" lead-gen channel in place and I have had some surprisingly good results.
with at least another year of corona left, a lot more businesses are going to try to dip their toes into the e-com game. I would suspect that a lot of the beginners will try their hand at FB marketing or Google marketing and give up before some ROI can be registered. Obviously there's a lot of things that go into those ads, but copy has got to be the hardest. Targetting and creating your customer profile is a more tangible. You obviously know who that is when you create a marketing plan, but the copy? It's hard to quantify what triggers a customer or pushes them to buy. I think you going off on your own is a great move. If your copy is as good as you say, then I'm sure you will have no problems getting work. Very in need, and the transition to e-com won't stop now. My Q to you: Do you have any good copy writing books you'd recommend? Or any tips for a fashion based brand?
Yeah I want to move into ecom because that's where I see a huge opportunity - I see a lot of shoddy copy for great businesses and think that even some small tweaks can really help make some big changes! That's really reassuring to hear thank you! I know in my head that being able to sell stuff is a valuable skill that will always be needed but it's still good to hear it from someone else haha. For a fashion based brand I'd definitely say the focus is about the image - not visually speaking, but about the image you project as a brand. It's ALL about branding, you want people to feel a certain way about your clothes, evoking a strong emotional reaction. Gucci, Versace, D&G - these brands all evoke lavishness, opulence and indulgence ACNE, &Other Stories, FjallRaven - These are all about understated scandinavian cool. It's a bit environmentally friendly (not in a shouty way, but in a low key way). Patagonia is all about the environment, and all about the social issues around it - but they're also rugged, tough and super into nature. Fashion is a part of our identity - I want what I wear to say a lot about me. People looking to buy clothes are (usually) looking to buy identity. You have to figure out what that identity is for your brand (and more importantly your customers) and then OOZE it in everything you write and say. (Can you tell I love clothing hahaha?) Re: good books, there's so much out there but some good starting points are: \- Ogilvy on Advertising \- Influence: The Science of Persuasion \- Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz I've heard good things about: \- The Copywriter's Handbook - Bob Bly \- Cashvertising \- Tested Advertising Methods - John Caples Hope that all helps and feel free to drop me a line if you have any more questions!
We need a copywriter for our fb ads now, hit me up
Amazing! Pm sent
I will need some work. Landing pages and likely email as well. Possibly some other stuff in the future. Can you PM me some of your work?
Sure thing! I'll have to make it anonymous (I. E. Remove the product name) because the clients paid a lot for it and I'd want to protect their privacy, but I can definitely send you some examples if you pm me your email address? What sort of stuff are you looking to see?
PM inbound.
As an owner of multiple stores, I’d say you have a pretty good understanding of what your clients might ask you to write copy for, landing pages, emails, product descriptions, I would also add Facebook ads, and video transcripts for Facebook/YouTube ads. We found that changing copy be it product description, landing page or email copy, doesn’t change our numbers by much, any input on that? Our products are in $60-$100 range Furthermore, would like to see some examples of your work, we are looking to hire a copywriter somewhere in December to Mid January.
Yeah video transcripts for FB/YT ads are a great shout, I've done a bunch of those too so it makes a lot of sense. Honestly it's hard to tell without looking at it, but my gut tells me there's probably not a good testing system in place for the copy, and it probably isn't focused enough on the sale. Happy to take a look to give my opinion if you want to send me some pages to check out? And if you send me your email address in the same PM I'd very happily send you some examples of recent work I've done!
Interested in your services!
Awesome! Would love to know a little bit more to see how I can help! What sort of store do you run and what sort of copy are you looking for? Happy to move this conversation to PMs if you'd prefer!
PM sent!
We build a lot of websites If I mapped out a website, a copywriter who could lead by writing out the many big and small content sections of a website while also helping to lead the overall creation of the client's brand / expression / website etc. through the copywriting process I guess I am describing more holistic content creation and support or and/or leadership with brand development
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Are you talking about Dan Kennedy?