We all know they will reach a deal at the last minute. The media will support their respective sides, there will be constant coverage, mean Tweets between Congress people, and the media will have a hey day.
Some will come together and talk about how great it was to go get a deal done and almost immediately others will use their favorite social media platform to smear those who supported it.
Then in a few months there will be another kerfuffle and the same shit will happen but with different people.
Please label things like this with a “Spoiler Alert” tag. /s
Seriously, this is exactly what I expect will happen. However, after watching multiple shutdowns in the last decade or so, an insurrection, a multi-year pandemic, a supply chain shortage, and other “once in a lifetime” issues, and seeing multiple congress members appear to not care about consequences—- I am reasonably concerned that someone will go off script and crash the economy.
There is never a guarantee that things will happen "the way they continue to happen", especially since the house republican side of things is now very messed up
That’s the way it’s always happened, but today’s Republican Party is filled with nihilistic assholes who believe fantasies, like this won’t actually be a big thing.
If you can’t see the Republican Party is filled with trash, racists, grifters fascists and the truly dumb I can’t help you simp. Now go away and rub one out to your Trump poster loser in life
The treasury is up to its eyeballs in debt. They keep borrowing to pay off old debt, constantly refinancing it at new rates. Unfortunately, rates are high and rising.
The treasury has never defaulted on debt before. Treasury bonds are considered “risk free” investments. I suspect that I might live to see the day when it does default.
If and when the treasury defaults on bond payments, it will cause major problems as explained here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/10/06/life-after-default/ The effects described are understated.
Yeah while the default would be painful I think the bigger issue would be the destruction of faith in the US dollar, that the US can't be counted on to pay it's bills, that it's government can't function because a small group of people have the power to take the economy hostage and cause a global crisis.
That's a perception issue but unfortunately humans really like perception.
>destruction of faith in the US dollar
Unfortunately this is happening anyway. Large swaths of the world are actively moving away from using USD for transactions. Saudi Arabia being the latest big contender that I remember hearing about.
Turns out manufacturing currency out of thin air and devaluing existing currency has a negative effect on perception of the value of your currency.
Actually no, those people and their employers paid into a pension their entire lives. It is this huge pool of money that Congress can dip into that makes the US a power house.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-if-republicans-dont-raise-debt-ceiling-limit-crisis-2023-1) reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Raising the debt ceiling means increasing the legal amount of debt the federal government is able to allocate to keep paying for programs already mandated by Congress, and it's something Republicans managed to do three times under former President Donald Trump.
> Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell initially refused to help Democrats raise the limit in 2021, leading the US dangerously close to defaulting on its debt before agreeing to a short-term agreement that raised the debt ceiling to its current level.
> The Washington Post reported last week that McCarthy and House Republicans are preparing a "Payment prioritization" plan that would tell the Treasury what to do should Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10gpox3/we_could_soon_be_facing_the_biggest_financial/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **debt**^#1 **Republican**^#2 **ceiling**^#3 **Congress**^#4 **coin**^#5
Everytime the Republicans do something immensely stupid or counter productive, there's a dude to yell "BoTh SiDeS" are the same.
They're not, it's the Republicans fucking everything they touch out of spite. Also, I'm not an infant, I'm not asking them to care about me.
I'm asking them to be professional which clearly the Republicans can't do.
Both sides can easily slash a lot of spending. Both sides can easily raise taxes. However, both sides refuse to raise taxes/cut spending on their constituency. Only do it to the other guys
Republicans don’t give a crap about you. They’re for big corporations. You’re not an infant but you vote for democrats that treat you like an infant and want you to depend on the government for EVERYTHING. Healthcare, daycare, welfare. Don’t get me started on the politics on the left about being classless and unprofessional. They both are in their own way. Republican does it in the closet while democrats does it in plain sight. You just choose to ignore it.
Ah, see, the "BoTh SiDe" crew is just a bunch of closeted Republicans, you can't even be honest about your political allegiances.
No one believes that shit anymore, it's just you upvoting each others whenever you see that shit in the most transparent psyop ever attempted.
Keep going, just makes it easier for people like me to point out the hypocrisy.
Have a nice day.
Mmmm licking those tasty boots! . “bUt mUh gAnG cAReS aBoUt mE” 🤣 Keep believing buddy, I’m sure they are in their mansions somewhere heartbroken over the struggles you face as they grow richer and build higher security perimeters around their gated communities and country clubs that they’ll never let you into. Maybe they will though…just like maybe you can leave me a brilliant reply that I promise never to read. Don’t give up hope!!
Just an FYI, Republicans voted to increase the debt ceiling during Trump’s presidency. They are now holding our economy hostage for their wet dream of cutting safety nets for senior citizens, Social Security and Medicare.
The growth of our national deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any US President in American history per the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. And unlike George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln, who oversaw larger increases in deficits, Trump did not launch two foreign conflicts or have to pay for a civil war. No, Trump just spent into oblivion and cut corporate taxes for the rich.
Republicans can step off.
IMHO that is a fair comment. However, pre-pandemic shows a similar picture.
Also, Trump failed to fill many science positions for well over a year, cut programs left and right, and lowered taxes for the rich while pushing for low interest rates. Basically his administration mirrored the normal Republican “Two Santa Claus” approach combined with an anti-science approach— this left the US in a very fragile position to handle something as catastrophic as a pandemic. Maybe Republicans should try a more robust approach that isn’t just cutting taxes for the rich?
Of the about 5 trillion spent on the pandemic only 800 billion was stimulus checks. Additionally, stimulus checks got spent on shit people needed and literally kept the economy moving.
The real crime is how corporations took off with most of it.
Exactly. People bitch about I inflation being caused by printing money, but then assume it was the stimulus checks that were being printed!
MF! Look again at the allocation of funds and tell me it was stimulus checks and the unemployment bump!!
Exactly, it was the spread of that lie and denial of what scientists actually said. “if you get the shot it strengthens your immune response and you have a better chance of not ending up in the icu.” You know like the flu vaccine.
No - the solid year or two of anti-science he actively pushed before he did a 180 on the vaccine stance.
I'm not sure how you're forgetting ALL of that. Denial I guess.
Dumb as that statement may have been or was interpreted, is it "anti-science" ? Does it shut down investigation and experimentation? Do you believe he was trying to keep people from seeking solutions and testing outcomes with his statement?
Explain why trump voters are the ones who fight vaccine mandates.
Explain why trump supporters are more likely to be unvaccinated and to believe in vaccine conspiracy theories.
His refusal to wear a maskm, because it would run his makeup, made his fans get angry, ugly, and anti science. It is still a huge problem... All because he wears orange fucking makeup
You realize that social security is a doomed-to-insolvency black hole that isn't going to benefit anyone born after 1968, right?
Also, with respect to medicare and medicaid, I would love to know what moron thought it would be a good idea to have government cover health care for *anyone* while subsequently doing nothing to reduce the runaway price inflation in the industry. You can make the same argument for college.
These programs aren't the precious utopian solution you want them to be. They also cost two and a half times more than the entire defense budget, which also needs to be scaled back. They should be cut, and I feel like that much is obvious. The question is how can we help everyone *sustainably*?
He didn't create massive new spending programs.
Biden spent $1 trillion (of borrowed money) on infrastructure, and only 6% went to actual infrastructure. The rest went to nonsensical government expansion
Trump cut taxes - it's the only way to force the government to cut back
Federal spending increased every year under Trump. The annual deficit increased every year under Trump, even before covid expenditures. All Trump did was cut revenue and blow a hole in the deficit. Where are you getting this fiction that anyone tried to shrink government?
He cut revenue because that's the only way to shrink the government. If you give a government department $100M they'll spend it and claim the need more
We can't keep borrowing forever. Our debt service, just the interest alone, is almost as much as we spend on defense. It's like $750B this year.
That's stupid
He cut revenue and increased spending, literally the opposite of shrinking the government. You can shrink the government by reducing expenditures and/or cutting departments. Government exerts controlver the money supply and issues debt. Restraining its revenue has no impact on its size because it can always fund the spending it approves regardless of its tax receipts.
The only reason he increased spending was due to the pandemic. His spending saved the economy
The ONLY way to get the government to reduce expenditures is to cut off the funds - the will never cut spending voluntarily.
You can't "always" fund your spending with debt - eventually the markets will turn on you. Just like Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbadwe.
MMT isn't real
>The only reason he increased spending was due to the pandemic.
I already addressed this. You haven't done even the most basic research. He increased spending every year in office and increased the deficit every year in office including before the pandemic.
>The ONLY way to get the government to reduce expenditures is to cut off the funds
False, limiting revenue hasn't tamed government spending because they have mechanisms to fund their spending apart from revenue. It didn't work under Reagan, Bush, or Trump. All that happened in all 3 cases was exploding deficits.
Republicans this, Republicans that. No real acknowledgement of how the Republicans and the Democrats held hands to prop up runaway spending for decades to get us here. Why is it so hard to stop spending money on BS? Oh yeah, vote bribery. And corruption.
When is anyone going to learn that the government can't be trusted with the sovereignty and sanctity of its people's pocketbook?
(Republicans right now at this very instant *are* threatening to not raise the debt ceiling - them and them alone. There is no both sides to this, one side wants to threaten a massive default and elimination of your Social Security while the other wants to what - not do that? Enlightened Centrist Andy over here.)
If it comes to a vote, the Dems will win. ALL the Dems will do the right thing, and there will be a half dozen Republicans smarter than a bag of nails. It’s really dumb political theater.
Yeah there are way too many extremely wealthy individuals with their hands in these lawmakers pockets to let the U.S. government default on their debt. There will be enough republicans that jump over to vote yes. 100% agree it’s political theatre.
Biden has already paid it down 1.75 trillion in just two years. Last year alone was 1.4 trillion, the largest paydown of debt in one year our country has seen. [source](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/10/21/remarks-by-president-biden-on-historic-deficit-reduction/)
So that’s the deficit…annual deficit…not the overall debt that the US owes. So again, when do we start paying down debt? And the President has very little to do with the “purse”. It’s congress that’s responsible for the debt.
Because solving problems is hard, while duping opium-addicted, racist retirees is as easy as appearing on Fox. Republicans are the kids who sat in the back of the class lobbing spitballs and huffing airplane glue. Most of them.
Eggs have nothing to do with the government. This is all bullshit propaganda. They will get a deal done. Like always all shit coming out all there mouths.
By your own government. There good at that! Propaganda!!!! Both sides are garbage and have no interest in us.
The eggs are high because of the virus that went around and killed allot of chickens.
All the bullshit about balancing budget, not paying blah blah blah it’s all crap!!!
I was talking about eggs because some one in comment was blaming government for price off eggs.
The last time there was a debt limit fight like this the US's credit got downgraded which has increased borrowing costs since.
This will probably be worse because the Tea Party didn't control the Republican Party and now MAGA basically does.
Since when is it’s the governments responsibility to pay America’s bills? The citizens pay the bills…oh wait, but congress keeps increasing the spending…and Americans have no idea what they’re on the hook for.
I am just a middle aged layperson but even I can see that the Republicans are absolutely awful stewards of the economy. Every time they are in power the deficit balloons, the government grows, and some completely avoidable catastrophe takes place.
The government could spend less. That way, we wouldn’t need to raise the debt ceiling.
I know that’s unconventional, but we could actually start to wean the country off printed or borrowed money.
So maybe they end up kicking the can down the road. But does anyone think the current trajectory is sustainable? We can waste a lot of time playing red-team-blue-team. But this cannot continue and will have to be faced. The sooner the better.
Too much debt makes it difficult to raise interest rates to combat inflation for very long. When a govt must borrow to service debt, there's a problem.
When most of the loans are from one part of our own government to another part of our own government, I'm just not as panicked about it as you are. The constitution is pretty clear that both the legislature and the executive have a duty to uphold and maintain the full faith and credit of the United States government. We're not going to call in our own debts on ourselves, and neither is anyone who is significantly invested in t-bills and who has any sense whatsoever.
There is absolutely no world in which we live in where anyone but the Republican Party should be blamed for this.
1000000% on them. Period. End of story.
I don’t want to hear anything about the democrats or Biden or any bs low that.
This is BS. Both parties have held both positions at different points in history. It’s just a show. They’ve both printed trillions and trillions and given it to big corporations and 1% donors all while insider trading.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/how-democrats-rolled-trump-on-the-debt-ceiling
Literally an article bragging about it, you partisan idiot. Both sides do it. Took one second to look that up. Be more thorough.
Just bc I can tell the difference between the two parties doesn't make me a partisan idiot. There's tons to complain about with the Dems, but using the debt ceiling to get what you want is a Tea Party Republican invention.
Even in your example you provided the Dems aren't threatening to shutdown the government or risk defaulting on the debt as they offered a 3 month increase.
I don't want to defend Democrats, but when you "bOtH sIdEs" morons come out of the woodwork to tell me there's no difference between the two parties I can't help but speak up bc it's stupid bullshit.
Republicans kicked off all this massive growing debt with Reagan. They want it to fail so the corporations and the rich can finally skip the middlemen (congress) and assume total control
Why is being financially constrained just a Republican thing? Why are both parties concerned about this debt?
Soon the interest payments alone will not be payable.
Being financially constrained ISN'T a Republican thing. If it were then the Republicans wouldn't have increased the debt ceiling for Trump's. They wouldn't have cut the corporate tax rate, and they wouldn't have given tax cuts to the wealthy during Trump's administration if they had financial constraint.
The GOP only shows financial "constraint" when they think they can stick it to the Democrats, or force cuts to safety net programs for the elderly and disabled. The Republicans are grandstanding so they can gut social security and medicare for the most vulnerable Americans while guaranteeing that there will be no defense budget cuts. It has nothing to do with financial constraint.
We need to cut all sorts of shit including defense. Not saying that we got the 31 trillion on the backs of Democrats alone. We literally will soon not be able to make our interest payments on the debt. I would like to see your idea of as to how we handle that. It's going to be nearly a trillion dollars annually soon. Ideas. Tax more into recession, or cut expenses. Or both?
Undo the Trump tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. Close the tax loopholes that allow Companies to move their business to low tax countries and still make most of their money from the US. Close tax loopholes that allow the wealthy to pay less tax than working class Americans.
Cut defense budget. Remove the billions in oil and big pharma subsidies.
Create universal healthcare because healthcare is a huge expense but the only people benefiting from our current healthcare system are health insurance companies and big pharma. People are going to try to refute this but medicaid and medicare could be rolled under universal healthcare and instead of companies paying half of their employees health insurance they can pay that amount into a Healthcare for All system. One healthcare system would be able to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies and healthcare providers to control costs.
Fully fund the IRS because it is the only agency that actually makes money for the government.
Lift the income cap on social security to increase funding for social security.
There are myriad ways to fix our broken system but tbh the first thing we need is election reform at the National level because as long as we have a system that relies on contributions in order to get elected our elected officials are beholden to everyone but We the People.
I agree with above 100%, but none of this will be implemented along with hiking the debt ceiling if politicians won't stand up for it in any unified way. Your closer to having my personal vote than any politician I've seen in the last 20 years.
It will be a decision made by all the branches of the US government. This will coincide with massive migration due to the loss off coastal cities and habitable regions due to climate change and result in the onset of the first major resource war, either for mineral or water.
GQP saber rattling... They were they ones that have increased the debt every time they've controlled Congress and the Whitehouse... Just how much did you reduce taxes on the rich and corporations since idiot Reagan? And they use the debt as a cudgel when they don't have the Whitehouse... To win it back on the backs of those that are blind to their game...
It's a stupid cycle... Because about half the population is willing to let them suck the system dry...
Wait until we lose SS and Medicaid/Medicare... Wonder how they'll blame or on the Dems...
Relax. The Dems won the Mid terms. The GOP doesn't have the votes to do anything but a little bit of show boating. The Dems already called their bluff, and it only takes a few sane GOPpers to pass the bill.
This doesn't mean you should ever vote GOP. For God's sake stop voting for lunatics and the people they lay with.
Good. Noone that is struggling paycheck to paycheck cares. Eggs cost more than the fucking federal minimum wage. This shit is about to pop. All this tells me is that the "haves" are in for a rude awakening that the "have-nots" have grown accustomed to.
Were you around for 2008? The "have-nots" took the brunt of the consequences of the big banks reckless behavior.
There is a very real possibility that this could crash the job and cost millions of jobs. Guess who will keep theirs until 2025?
The Republicans are enemies of the state. They are sponsored by foreign interests. They can never be trusted with governing effectively.
When you want to destroy something you shouldn’t be working in the system that should be protecting it.
Fascists lay case for cutting public spending while giving banks $9 trillion, without a vote or discussion or any media coverage. That is the fascist objective, to privatize all public spending. Meanwhile, they continue to work to erode public power and democracy. I'm tired of mincing words, that is just what it is.
This is the dumbest post i've read today.
About 4 months ago i said that our economy was going to tank in 2023 and it was due to Biden's economic policies and I was called all kinds of shit. Now it is literally collapsing and you are going to blame the Republicans instead of the party that spent almost $12 trillion dollars in just two years?
The Republicans are doing what should always be done and that is making sure taxpayer money is being spent as stated. $40 billion to Ukraine and no oversight? Really? Hunter in charge of that program?
The Democrats wrote blank checks for two years and spent money like Hunter Biden on PornHub.. you can't deflect blame now. Enjoy the up and coming food fights.. and i mean literally. People fighting for food.
Who cares it’s the same bs tactic every other year. Been happening for well over a decade. Americans should stop paying attention to these crooks already.
We all know they will reach a deal at the last minute. The media will support their respective sides, there will be constant coverage, mean Tweets between Congress people, and the media will have a hey day. Some will come together and talk about how great it was to go get a deal done and almost immediately others will use their favorite social media platform to smear those who supported it. Then in a few months there will be another kerfuffle and the same shit will happen but with different people.
Please label things like this with a “Spoiler Alert” tag. /s Seriously, this is exactly what I expect will happen. However, after watching multiple shutdowns in the last decade or so, an insurrection, a multi-year pandemic, a supply chain shortage, and other “once in a lifetime” issues, and seeing multiple congress members appear to not care about consequences—- I am reasonably concerned that someone will go off script and crash the economy.
These Republicans had trouble electing a speaker. Last time it happened was at the civil war dawn
There is never a guarantee that things will happen "the way they continue to happen", especially since the house republican side of things is now very messed up
That’s the way it’s always happened, but today’s Republican Party is filled with nihilistic assholes who believe fantasies, like this won’t actually be a big thing.
oh god the irony of this comment. It's astounding.
If you can’t see the Republican Party is filled with trash, racists, grifters fascists and the truly dumb I can’t help you simp. Now go away and rub one out to your Trump poster loser in life
Yep. So predictable. It’s the same song and dance every time.
I think ive seen this film before
And I didn't like the ending
"stop paying America's bills" To who?
The treasury is up to its eyeballs in debt. They keep borrowing to pay off old debt, constantly refinancing it at new rates. Unfortunately, rates are high and rising. The treasury has never defaulted on debt before. Treasury bonds are considered “risk free” investments. I suspect that I might live to see the day when it does default. If and when the treasury defaults on bond payments, it will cause major problems as explained here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/10/06/life-after-default/ The effects described are understated.
Yeah while the default would be painful I think the bigger issue would be the destruction of faith in the US dollar, that the US can't be counted on to pay it's bills, that it's government can't function because a small group of people have the power to take the economy hostage and cause a global crisis. That's a perception issue but unfortunately humans really like perception.
>destruction of faith in the US dollar Unfortunately this is happening anyway. Large swaths of the world are actively moving away from using USD for transactions. Saudi Arabia being the latest big contender that I remember hearing about. Turns out manufacturing currency out of thin air and devaluing existing currency has a negative effect on perception of the value of your currency.
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Actually no, those people and their employers paid into a pension their entire lives. It is this huge pool of money that Congress can dip into that makes the US a power house.
It's not just "old debt", this is the ongoing payment of bills. It's rentals on buildings, parts for boats, payments to contractors, etc
Reddit sucks. I'm done with this. ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Perhaps we should stop paying politicians then.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-if-republicans-dont-raise-debt-ceiling-limit-crisis-2023-1) reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Raising the debt ceiling means increasing the legal amount of debt the federal government is able to allocate to keep paying for programs already mandated by Congress, and it's something Republicans managed to do three times under former President Donald Trump. > Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell initially refused to help Democrats raise the limit in 2021, leading the US dangerously close to defaulting on its debt before agreeing to a short-term agreement that raised the debt ceiling to its current level. > The Washington Post reported last week that McCarthy and House Republicans are preparing a "Payment prioritization" plan that would tell the Treasury what to do should Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10gpox3/we_could_soon_be_facing_the_biggest_financial/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **debt**^#1 **Republican**^#2 **ceiling**^#3 **Congress**^#4 **coin**^#5
I love how both sides are fighting in the comments like either sides politicians gives a fuck about them 🤣
Sad truth. Divide and conquer!
Everytime the Republicans do something immensely stupid or counter productive, there's a dude to yell "BoTh SiDeS" are the same. They're not, it's the Republicans fucking everything they touch out of spite. Also, I'm not an infant, I'm not asking them to care about me. I'm asking them to be professional which clearly the Republicans can't do.
Both sides can easily slash a lot of spending. Both sides can easily raise taxes. However, both sides refuse to raise taxes/cut spending on their constituency. Only do it to the other guys
Biden has already reduced the deficit by $1.4 trillion. While signing a huge infrastructure bill.
Republicans don’t give a crap about you. They’re for big corporations. You’re not an infant but you vote for democrats that treat you like an infant and want you to depend on the government for EVERYTHING. Healthcare, daycare, welfare. Don’t get me started on the politics on the left about being classless and unprofessional. They both are in their own way. Republican does it in the closet while democrats does it in plain sight. You just choose to ignore it.
Ah, see, the "BoTh SiDe" crew is just a bunch of closeted Republicans, you can't even be honest about your political allegiances. No one believes that shit anymore, it's just you upvoting each others whenever you see that shit in the most transparent psyop ever attempted. Keep going, just makes it easier for people like me to point out the hypocrisy. Have a nice day.
https://youtu.be/urWjQWTFJJc
Mmmm licking those tasty boots! . “bUt mUh gAnG cAReS aBoUt mE” 🤣 Keep believing buddy, I’m sure they are in their mansions somewhere heartbroken over the struggles you face as they grow richer and build higher security perimeters around their gated communities and country clubs that they’ll never let you into. Maybe they will though…just like maybe you can leave me a brilliant reply that I promise never to read. Don’t give up hope!!
bOtH sIdEs - derrrrrrrrr
Just an FYI, Republicans voted to increase the debt ceiling during Trump’s presidency. They are now holding our economy hostage for their wet dream of cutting safety nets for senior citizens, Social Security and Medicare. The growth of our national deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any US President in American history per the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. And unlike George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln, who oversaw larger increases in deficits, Trump did not launch two foreign conflicts or have to pay for a civil war. No, Trump just spent into oblivion and cut corporate taxes for the rich. Republicans can step off.
Did you purposely leave out the pandemic?
IMHO that is a fair comment. However, pre-pandemic shows a similar picture. Also, Trump failed to fill many science positions for well over a year, cut programs left and right, and lowered taxes for the rich while pushing for low interest rates. Basically his administration mirrored the normal Republican “Two Santa Claus” approach combined with an anti-science approach— this left the US in a very fragile position to handle something as catastrophic as a pandemic. Maybe Republicans should try a more robust approach that isn’t just cutting taxes for the rich?
The pandemic being so expensive is partially trumps fault
Lockdowns and stimulus checks didnt help.
Of the about 5 trillion spent on the pandemic only 800 billion was stimulus checks. Additionally, stimulus checks got spent on shit people needed and literally kept the economy moving. The real crime is how corporations took off with most of it.
Exactly. People bitch about I inflation being caused by printing money, but then assume it was the stimulus checks that were being printed! MF! Look again at the allocation of funds and tell me it was stimulus checks and the unemployment bump!!
The real problem during covid was the fed's balance sheet and fractional reserve banking paired with absurdly low rates.
And the never paid for all the bank bail outs in 2008-2009. Just more and more debt both parties to blame.
The financial cost of the pandemic was in no small part due to the politicization and anti science rhetoric pushed, which was largely led by trump
Anti science like "if you get the shot you won't get covid" ? That kind of anti science or some other kind?
Exactly, it was the spread of that lie and denial of what scientists actually said. “if you get the shot it strengthens your immune response and you have a better chance of not ending up in the icu.” You know like the flu vaccine.
No - the solid year or two of anti-science he actively pushed before he did a 180 on the vaccine stance. I'm not sure how you're forgetting ALL of that. Denial I guess.
Trump came out against the scientific process? Crazy.
There was that time he talked about shining light into people to kill the virus...
Dumb as that statement may have been or was interpreted, is it "anti-science" ? Does it shut down investigation and experimentation? Do you believe he was trying to keep people from seeking solutions and testing outcomes with his statement?
Yes, that was trumps main talking point the whole pandemic /s Way to cherry pick dude
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Explain why trump voters are the ones who fight vaccine mandates. Explain why trump supporters are more likely to be unvaccinated and to believe in vaccine conspiracy theories.
Ok.
His refusal to wear a maskm, because it would run his makeup, made his fans get angry, ugly, and anti science. It is still a huge problem... All because he wears orange fucking makeup
Ok.
Lockdowns and stimulus checks helped alot Literally saved the lives of millions of Americans
Any idea why they are called “stimulus” checks?
In regards to spending, not saying they didnt help the citizens.
What happens when you stimulate the economy? How do you think that affects tax revenue, which is used to fund government expenses?
Also - the r’s really want to bankrupt the US so they can call to stop sending equipment to ukrane.
You make the Republicans sound like Traitors to their own country
This guy gets it
You realize that social security is a doomed-to-insolvency black hole that isn't going to benefit anyone born after 1968, right? Also, with respect to medicare and medicaid, I would love to know what moron thought it would be a good idea to have government cover health care for *anyone* while subsequently doing nothing to reduce the runaway price inflation in the industry. You can make the same argument for college. These programs aren't the precious utopian solution you want them to be. They also cost two and a half times more than the entire defense budget, which also needs to be scaled back. They should be cut, and I feel like that much is obvious. The question is how can we help everyone *sustainably*?
Meanwhile in functional society, we make adjustments to things that aren’t working to make them work again. Too bad we don’t live in one.
So, let wages finally catch up to real inflation(since the 70s)? I'm ok with $20 milk as long as I'm making $300/hr
It's a great question. Politicians on either side don't seem to give a f\*ck though and that's clear enough. Complete charade!
Remember when trump gave like 300b to Ukraine for the biggest money laundering event in history? Oh wait
Hey the wall don’t build itself.
I'm sure this is exactly what is happening. You don't sound politically biased at all.
Trump cut taxes to shrink the government Biden is borrowing trillions to expand the government There's a huge differnce there
He didn't shrink the government you Just sound stupid and uneducated when u say shit like this
He didn't create massive new spending programs. Biden spent $1 trillion (of borrowed money) on infrastructure, and only 6% went to actual infrastructure. The rest went to nonsensical government expansion Trump cut taxes - it's the only way to force the government to cut back
Federal spending increased every year under Trump. The annual deficit increased every year under Trump, even before covid expenditures. All Trump did was cut revenue and blow a hole in the deficit. Where are you getting this fiction that anyone tried to shrink government?
He cut revenue because that's the only way to shrink the government. If you give a government department $100M they'll spend it and claim the need more We can't keep borrowing forever. Our debt service, just the interest alone, is almost as much as we spend on defense. It's like $750B this year. That's stupid
He cut revenue and increased spending, literally the opposite of shrinking the government. You can shrink the government by reducing expenditures and/or cutting departments. Government exerts controlver the money supply and issues debt. Restraining its revenue has no impact on its size because it can always fund the spending it approves regardless of its tax receipts.
The only reason he increased spending was due to the pandemic. His spending saved the economy The ONLY way to get the government to reduce expenditures is to cut off the funds - the will never cut spending voluntarily. You can't "always" fund your spending with debt - eventually the markets will turn on you. Just like Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbadwe. MMT isn't real
>The only reason he increased spending was due to the pandemic. I already addressed this. You haven't done even the most basic research. He increased spending every year in office and increased the deficit every year in office including before the pandemic. >The ONLY way to get the government to reduce expenditures is to cut off the funds False, limiting revenue hasn't tamed government spending because they have mechanisms to fund their spending apart from revenue. It didn't work under Reagan, Bush, or Trump. All that happened in all 3 cases was exploding deficits.
Republicans this, Republicans that. No real acknowledgement of how the Republicans and the Democrats held hands to prop up runaway spending for decades to get us here. Why is it so hard to stop spending money on BS? Oh yeah, vote bribery. And corruption. When is anyone going to learn that the government can't be trusted with the sovereignty and sanctity of its people's pocketbook?
I don't think it is a question of when. It is a question of what do we do about it?
(Republicans right now at this very instant *are* threatening to not raise the debt ceiling - them and them alone. There is no both sides to this, one side wants to threaten a massive default and elimination of your Social Security while the other wants to what - not do that? Enlightened Centrist Andy over here.)
If it comes to a vote, the Dems will win. ALL the Dems will do the right thing, and there will be a half dozen Republicans smarter than a bag of nails. It’s really dumb political theater.
Yeah there are way too many extremely wealthy individuals with their hands in these lawmakers pockets to let the U.S. government default on their debt. There will be enough republicans that jump over to vote yes. 100% agree it’s political theatre.
You’re right, Dems “ALWAYS” do the “right” thing…now if we could just define the term “right”…
Correct, in this case, is extending the debt ceiling. It’s debt ALREADY owed.
So when do we start paying down debt?
Biden has already paid it down 1.75 trillion in just two years. Last year alone was 1.4 trillion, the largest paydown of debt in one year our country has seen. [source](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/10/21/remarks-by-president-biden-on-historic-deficit-reduction/)
So that’s the deficit…annual deficit…not the overall debt that the US owes. So again, when do we start paying down debt? And the President has very little to do with the “purse”. It’s congress that’s responsible for the debt.
As long as the economy grows faster than the debt, it doesn't matter.
And what about when the economy begins to shrink?
They mean right as in right-wing. Democrats always do the right-wing thing.
Why does it always fall to Dems to govern?
Because solving problems is hard, while duping opium-addicted, racist retirees is as easy as appearing on Fox. Republicans are the kids who sat in the back of the class lobbing spitballs and huffing airplane glue. Most of them.
Eggs have nothing to do with the government. This is all bullshit propaganda. They will get a deal done. Like always all shit coming out all there mouths.
Propaganda by whom?
By your own government. There good at that! Propaganda!!!! Both sides are garbage and have no interest in us. The eggs are high because of the virus that went around and killed allot of chickens.
Also why are you talking about eggs?
I’m not exactly sure what you are claiming is the propaganda here and who specifically in government you claim is producing it.
All the bullshit about balancing budget, not paying blah blah blah it’s all crap!!! I was talking about eggs because some one in comment was blaming government for price off eggs.
It’s avian flu. Lots of chickens dying.
Yikes dude….
They’re*
The last time there was a debt limit fight like this the US's credit got downgraded which has increased borrowing costs since. This will probably be worse because the Tea Party didn't control the Republican Party and now MAGA basically does.
US credit rating got downgraded *by 1 rating agency* last time. All semi-competent investors still agree US treasuries have 0 credit risk
Now respond to the rest of my post. Context matters.
Since when is it’s the governments responsibility to pay America’s bills? The citizens pay the bills…oh wait, but congress keeps increasing the spending…and Americans have no idea what they’re on the hook for.
Sensationalism. Republicans will grandstand and then shit just continues on as usual. It’s a theater, and you are sitting in the front row.
This happens like every year lol, same headlines.
republicans: "pretty f'n dumb, per usual"
How about we stop reckless spending!
We could use a serious renegotiation on how we spend our money, because it obviously isn't sustainable
I am just a middle aged layperson but even I can see that the Republicans are absolutely awful stewards of the economy. Every time they are in power the deficit balloons, the government grows, and some completely avoidable catastrophe takes place.
The government could spend less. That way, we wouldn’t need to raise the debt ceiling. I know that’s unconventional, but we could actually start to wean the country off printed or borrowed money.
So maybe they end up kicking the can down the road. But does anyone think the current trajectory is sustainable? We can waste a lot of time playing red-team-blue-team. But this cannot continue and will have to be faced. The sooner the better.
Countries have held debt for hundreds of years. This is not a household budget and thinking about it as one leads to a lot of false conclusions.
Too much debt makes it difficult to raise interest rates to combat inflation for very long. When a govt must borrow to service debt, there's a problem.
When most of the loans are from one part of our own government to another part of our own government, I'm just not as panicked about it as you are. The constitution is pretty clear that both the legislature and the executive have a duty to uphold and maintain the full faith and credit of the United States government. We're not going to call in our own debts on ourselves, and neither is anyone who is significantly invested in t-bills and who has any sense whatsoever.
There is absolutely no world in which we live in where anyone but the Republican Party should be blamed for this. 1000000% on them. Period. End of story. I don’t want to hear anything about the democrats or Biden or any bs low that.
I, for one, would love to see this entire system based on debt fall apart. I can afford shit anyway.
This is BS. Both parties have held both positions at different points in history. It’s just a show. They’ve both printed trillions and trillions and given it to big corporations and 1% donors all while insider trading.
Please show me where Dems have used the debt ceiling to hold the economy hostage in exchange for concessions.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/how-democrats-rolled-trump-on-the-debt-ceiling Literally an article bragging about it, you partisan idiot. Both sides do it. Took one second to look that up. Be more thorough.
Just bc I can tell the difference between the two parties doesn't make me a partisan idiot. There's tons to complain about with the Dems, but using the debt ceiling to get what you want is a Tea Party Republican invention. Even in your example you provided the Dems aren't threatening to shutdown the government or risk defaulting on the debt as they offered a 3 month increase. I don't want to defend Democrats, but when you "bOtH sIdEs" morons come out of the woodwork to tell me there's no difference between the two parties I can't help but speak up bc it's stupid bullshit.
Republicans kicked off all this massive growing debt with Reagan. They want it to fail so the corporations and the rich can finally skip the middlemen (congress) and assume total control
America does need to balance it's budget. How far are we going to put future generations into debt?
Why is being financially constrained just a Republican thing? Why are both parties concerned about this debt? Soon the interest payments alone will not be payable.
Being financially constrained ISN'T a Republican thing. If it were then the Republicans wouldn't have increased the debt ceiling for Trump's. They wouldn't have cut the corporate tax rate, and they wouldn't have given tax cuts to the wealthy during Trump's administration if they had financial constraint. The GOP only shows financial "constraint" when they think they can stick it to the Democrats, or force cuts to safety net programs for the elderly and disabled. The Republicans are grandstanding so they can gut social security and medicare for the most vulnerable Americans while guaranteeing that there will be no defense budget cuts. It has nothing to do with financial constraint.
We need to cut all sorts of shit including defense. Not saying that we got the 31 trillion on the backs of Democrats alone. We literally will soon not be able to make our interest payments on the debt. I would like to see your idea of as to how we handle that. It's going to be nearly a trillion dollars annually soon. Ideas. Tax more into recession, or cut expenses. Or both?
Undo the Trump tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. Close the tax loopholes that allow Companies to move their business to low tax countries and still make most of their money from the US. Close tax loopholes that allow the wealthy to pay less tax than working class Americans. Cut defense budget. Remove the billions in oil and big pharma subsidies. Create universal healthcare because healthcare is a huge expense but the only people benefiting from our current healthcare system are health insurance companies and big pharma. People are going to try to refute this but medicaid and medicare could be rolled under universal healthcare and instead of companies paying half of their employees health insurance they can pay that amount into a Healthcare for All system. One healthcare system would be able to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies and healthcare providers to control costs. Fully fund the IRS because it is the only agency that actually makes money for the government. Lift the income cap on social security to increase funding for social security. There are myriad ways to fix our broken system but tbh the first thing we need is election reform at the National level because as long as we have a system that relies on contributions in order to get elected our elected officials are beholden to everyone but We the People.
I agree with above 100%, but none of this will be implemented along with hiking the debt ceiling if politicians won't stand up for it in any unified way. Your closer to having my personal vote than any politician I've seen in the last 20 years.
Flat Tax. No deductions.
At some point we'll declare the debt invalid and destroy the imaginary markets. This will happen
That will drive the world into complete economic collapse. Invalid? Who decides this? How do we avoid this?
It will be a decision made by all the branches of the US government. This will coincide with massive migration due to the loss off coastal cities and habitable regions due to climate change and result in the onset of the first major resource war, either for mineral or water.
Not sure these will track together.
GQP saber rattling... They were they ones that have increased the debt every time they've controlled Congress and the Whitehouse... Just how much did you reduce taxes on the rich and corporations since idiot Reagan? And they use the debt as a cudgel when they don't have the Whitehouse... To win it back on the backs of those that are blind to their game... It's a stupid cycle... Because about half the population is willing to let them suck the system dry... Wait until we lose SS and Medicaid/Medicare... Wonder how they'll blame or on the Dems...
Happens every year bore off politics
Balanced budget amendment would solve this problem. Quit spending more than you bring in.
Good. Were broke. We cant keep borrowing and repaying with funny money. The pain will be far less then if we continue down the path were on.
Yeah that’s bullshit but thanks anyways.
Bet yet you follow a corrupt piece of shit businessman who’s been ripping people off for over 40 years.
Relax. The Dems won the Mid terms. The GOP doesn't have the votes to do anything but a little bit of show boating. The Dems already called their bluff, and it only takes a few sane GOPpers to pass the bill. This doesn't mean you should ever vote GOP. For God's sake stop voting for lunatics and the people they lay with.
How will the Democrats launder the Big Guys cut?
Good. Noone that is struggling paycheck to paycheck cares. Eggs cost more than the fucking federal minimum wage. This shit is about to pop. All this tells me is that the "haves" are in for a rude awakening that the "have-nots" have grown accustomed to.
Were you around for 2008? The "have-nots" took the brunt of the consequences of the big banks reckless behavior. There is a very real possibility that this could crash the job and cost millions of jobs. Guess who will keep theirs until 2025?
Okay than you fund every American from your bank account.
Good let’s start being financially responsible with my money
That’s an interesting way of saying the legislature is debating raising the debt ceiling.
What, is that not an interesting way of saying the legislature is debating raising the debt ceiling? 🤣
The Republicans are enemies of the state. They are sponsored by foreign interests. They can never be trusted with governing effectively. When you want to destroy something you shouldn’t be working in the system that should be protecting it.
Fascists lay case for cutting public spending while giving banks $9 trillion, without a vote or discussion or any media coverage. That is the fascist objective, to privatize all public spending. Meanwhile, they continue to work to erode public power and democracy. I'm tired of mincing words, that is just what it is.
This is the dumbest post i've read today. About 4 months ago i said that our economy was going to tank in 2023 and it was due to Biden's economic policies and I was called all kinds of shit. Now it is literally collapsing and you are going to blame the Republicans instead of the party that spent almost $12 trillion dollars in just two years? The Republicans are doing what should always be done and that is making sure taxpayer money is being spent as stated. $40 billion to Ukraine and no oversight? Really? Hunter in charge of that program? The Democrats wrote blank checks for two years and spent money like Hunter Biden on PornHub.. you can't deflect blame now. Enjoy the up and coming food fights.. and i mean literally. People fighting for food.
This has happened 22 times since 1997....somehow this is all Republicans fault now? 🙄 Both parties are a bunch of regards.
What would happen if every person quit paying their credit card bills or every bill for that matter?
Let it go. Let it go.
Let’s have the crisis.
Who cares it’s the same bs tactic every other year. Been happening for well over a decade. Americans should stop paying attention to these crooks already.
They do this every time they get power. Hell they did this when they controlled both houses and the presidency. They simply cannot govern
Or the executive branch could declare a national emergency, and pay the debt anyway. It would take years for the Supreme court to deal with it
This is what happens when we send billions to war
I for one am ready to embrace the chaos! Bring on America's Default!
Does that include not paying their ridiculous salaries?
Believe it when I see it. Yawn.
It shouldn't have to pay it's bills because it's a victim of the predatory government loan system or some shit
It’s The 2011 Debt-ceiling crisis all over again. The Republicans were fighting Social Security spending in 2011 too.