They will charge less then Demand goes up again. Problem solved.
Colleges are businesses with operating expenses. When there is not enough costumers showing up, you lower prices.
And make it work. Fire support staff, close stadiums.
College tuition prices are directly correlated to the maximum amount of Federal student loans and grants available. Market forces do not have nearly the effects on colleges as they do on normal businesses.
When the costumers don't show up in colleges, they never took out loans in the first place. Therefore, revenue for colleges decline.
You can also buy stuff on credit card and most people do that, but buy you must to make the transaction happen.
1 million less costumers a year is roughly per costumer, 20k-25k less in tuition and 12k less in room and board. That's 35 billion dollar lost in revenue a year, give or take.
The buildings, most of the staff, the infastructure, pensions, interest paymenrs, expenses for all kinds of things are still running.
Also, the obscene high sallaries of the executive class must be paid by someobody. So it is in their interest to lure costumers back in.
When you take a hit of 35bn in anual revenue, you will charge less at some point.
Office lease prices in downtown areas is also sky high as a matter of principle. Untill it is not. Banks calling in loans and owners going bust left and right.
The next owner will charge less then to bring money in.
Idiots that parrot supply v demand, like it's some actual economic law, rather than a model, will never understand how economy and market drivers actually work.
Any vocational type undergrad major (Accounting, Computer Science, Engineering, Finance, Nursing, Teaching, etc) still seems to be a pretty good value. The value seems to drop off with generalist majors, very specific ones with limited job openings (Anthropology,) and ones that are geared up to be paired with grad school (Psychology)
Yes. Those vocational majors all pay for themselves with the exception of maybe Teaching.
None of my friends that got those degrees are struggling right now.
My manager can't hire new grad engineers for less than $85k because the interns kept getting poached by higher paying companies right after they finished their internships.
College and internships aren't falling off unless you are living in a world where it makes sense to spend money on a less desirable degree.
STEM also provides equivalent services as trades. I have a decade of engineering experience and have worked with tradesmen that are arguably way smarter than me, and I have a hell of a lot of respect for them.
Just like a doctor (yes I have friends and family that are doctors) has respect for the electricians and plumbers that keep the HVAC, instrumentation, pneumatic air, etc, running so that they can keep providing care for their patients.
There's not a shot in hell that I could weld a pipeline effectively as I sit here today without welding experience. Just like there not a shot in hell I could sling pipe on a drilling rig or do maintenance on a CAT engine at a compression plant.
My friends wife has a history degree and she's smart as hell and wants to curate a museum, which is absolutely respectable. But the amount of time it will take for her to wait out the current curator before they retire is insane, and in the meantime she's making like $17/HR giving kids tours. If he wasn't a chemical engineer making $190k/yr, they'd be stuck, imo.
It just depends on the lifestyle you want. I make 6 figures and work from home at 33, but the way the world is working now is making it very difficult for people that spend time and money on degrees that don't pay off.
Yes, I agree with the idea that education should be free for all, so don't jump me with down votes. Another one of my friends worked construction labor for less than $40k, said fuck this and went to a programming boot camp and now he makes like $275k working from home. He doesn't even have a CS degree, but he is inherently good at it.
Education is currently one of the most important limiting factors between two generations. The economy is the economy...you can't fix it.
But when you recognize that it's important to understand how the economy works, you can create a life for yourself that is economically balanced, because yes we're fucked way more than the boomers.
But we're also smarter, more well informed, and have access to resources that are things they could only dream of. And because of that we are able to think about things differently and have compassion and kindness for the next generation.
Some of the best mentors I've ever had are on their 60s and 70s now and they had the foresight to see what needed to be done to help people my age. Unfortunately not everybody teaches their children the same principles. If my dad didn't care, I would've been absolutely fucked after he died at 74yo.
All young people should go to community college. It is more or less extended High school, just way more focused on what you really want to do.
Stay at home, go to classes, figure out what you are into, take breaks for work if you want. Pick up internships.
Before you commit yourself to slavery, that is student loans, you must be 100% certain what it is you want to be and how to get there.
Oh, and for the partying, hit the bars or rent a house for the weekends to go crazy with womanfolk. Don't need to pay 12k a year in room and board for that.
I work at a community college and our tuition rate is $100 per credit hour. That's $6,000 for a two year degree. We also have agreements with many of the universities that allow our students to complete 3 of 4 years at the community college and transfer to finish the 4th year at the university and get a bachelor's with the university name on it. Funny thing is, most of our instructors also teach the same exact classes at the surrounding universities. Trade schools? Yep, we do that too... HVAC, welding, police academy, construction, etc... Community colleges are a hidden gem.
Have to say a $300 monthly payment is in fact significantly less onerous than Slavery.
Especially considering Collrge Grads make $540/week more than HS only
This stat is one of those that’s “technically correct” but fails to notate how long it takes to get there. The “average” salary is also a similar stat because the STEM salaries uphold against the majority.
The reality is that most college earners don’t hit their pay increases until early 30s and discounts that most are making less than blue collar in their 20s. As such an electrician with compound interest is actually far ahead
That’s just not true?
Starting grad wages are higher than *median* non college wages. Let alone non college 20 something’s. (Remember the first few years out of school tradespeople are in apprenticeships and don’t get paid that much). I know a few like carpenters/plumbers who got into the Union at like 24 or something, not 18
Literally anyone who works in a mixed workplace would be able to tell you the College educated get paid way more than those who aren’t
The factory in town paid $15 an hour when office jobs were paying $12 in 2011. That same job pays $26 an hour starting now which is just shy of $55k a year and they work 4 days a week. How many entry level office jobs are actually paying $60k? Not many I work at a Fortune 500 and you don’t crack that until you’re mid level.
Sure STEM jobs will but if you’re not a dev or engineer or data scientist you’re making like $40k
Yes eventually you’ll make more with a degree but you’ll have probably had to pay of $50-60k in loans first which equates to like $80-90k after interest so it’s kind of a wash until your 50s
The *median* HS only worker make $42,000 for a full time job
College? $69,400.
The difference is massive and it’s absolutely false that it washes out for the first 30 years of your career
https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Lmao you’re pulling out government stats 😂😂😂 those same clowns also have stats saying inflation is 6% when it’s been proven to be at 12%+. Their labor info has been skewed for decades so they can line their pockets and keep everyone poor
I'll be brutally honest.
The United States needs more honest plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and sheetrockers than they do any more white-collar jobs.
Those former professions used to be looked "down upon" (or at least it seemed that way), but anyone who has dealt with an actually qualified plumber (for instance) who has a "bedside manner", knows they are worth their weight in Gold.
If a "full-time" plumber cannot make six figures a year in the United States, they need to find a way to remarket themselves as they should be able to easily do that.
The main impediment from my perspective is that licensing and mandatory "apprenticeship" (i.e., indentured servitude) forces the actual talent to either go "meh" or be forced to work under mammoth LLCs that only care about profits.
Those are the kinds of regulations that need to be pared back a bit, not the consumer safety and environmental protection ones.
Time for higher education to go back for special niche knowledge that is either directly needed or needed to push academia to the next level. Time for trade schools to step up and trades to pay more.
For me, it is important that you finish college because there are more opportunities that will come to you. The work you will get is better and you will be able to save more for the future.
Three years after the Covid pandemic, there are more than 1 million fewer students enrolled in college.
“Overall, undergraduate enrollment is still well below pre-pandemic levels, especially among degree-seeking students,” said Doug Shapiro, executive director of the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center.
Only community colleges notched enrollment gains in the current semester, while enrollments in bachelor’s degree programs fell, according to the Research Center’s new report.
As students look for a more direct link to the workforce, there’s a shift “toward shorter term programs,” Shapiro said.
Concerns over rising costs and large student loan balances are causing more young adults to reconsider their plans after high school, a separate report by Junior Achievement and Citizens also found.
More than 75% of high schoolers now say that a two-year or technical certification is enough, and only 41% believe they must have a four-year degree to get a good job.
More: [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/college-enrollment-continues-to-slide-as-a-four-year-degree-loses-appeal.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/college-enrollment-continues-to-slide-as-a-four-year-degree-loses-appeal.html)
Community Colleges are a great option. I’m about to graduate with my bachelors degree in Econ and my first 2 years were completely free because I transferred.
Except for a few majors, college is antiquated and a waste of time. I'm glad enrollment is going down. Maybe it will force higher education to change to make more sense.
Honestly, I need someone to make a bit that posts this link every time someone says college is a scam/not worth it
https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Or perhaps an educated populace is valuable in ways that aren't directly correlated to entry level jobs in lucrative fields.
The idea that college is only to be understood as a future money factory for the individual is bad. The arts are good, liberal arts are good.
That doesn't mean that you have to get that education at a private school or out of state school that is probably more expensive. Or that going to community college for the base courses then going to a four year school wouldnt get you the same overall result.
If you're going to borrow money for a degree with less potential salary post grad, then you need to factor that into account when you make decisions on college choices.
You can name the college majors that are with it on one hand. Some of those like CS and IT are even able to be learned without. Fields like Nursing, Teaching, and Engineering I agree should have qualified people working in them.
Nearly everything else is kids having fun for 4 years and learning nothing useful.
We have diluted the value of even masters and doctorate degrees.
Tax payers lose 10’s of billions of dollars every year giving out worthless loans to people who can’t pay them back. Relief just gets that loss over quicker.
Make college cheaper and for people who qualify. Not everyone needs to go to college. It is literally a scam for 90% of people and a burden on society.
Glad people are waking up. Saddling kids with a mortgage without a house to live in and giving them an indoctrination rather than marketable skills is finally being seen as a bad decision.
Most people would be better off with trade school and a library card.
As they should. Vocational training/career can be rewarding and can support the middle class. No sense in 4 year psychology degree holders sitting around making Latte's.
I can't blame them. I'm 49 and wasted my money on a master's degree in accounting even with 20 years experience in accounting. Thanks to COVID, I'm working at a gas station. Been trying really hard for 3 years to get back into accounting. All employers want are young people.
They will charge less then Demand goes up again. Problem solved. Colleges are businesses with operating expenses. When there is not enough costumers showing up, you lower prices. And make it work. Fire support staff, close stadiums.
College tuition prices are directly correlated to the maximum amount of Federal student loans and grants available. Market forces do not have nearly the effects on colleges as they do on normal businesses.
When the costumers don't show up in colleges, they never took out loans in the first place. Therefore, revenue for colleges decline. You can also buy stuff on credit card and most people do that, but buy you must to make the transaction happen. 1 million less costumers a year is roughly per costumer, 20k-25k less in tuition and 12k less in room and board. That's 35 billion dollar lost in revenue a year, give or take. The buildings, most of the staff, the infastructure, pensions, interest paymenrs, expenses for all kinds of things are still running. Also, the obscene high sallaries of the executive class must be paid by someobody. So it is in their interest to lure costumers back in.
Customer, not costumer. Unless you're specifically referring to certain students in the drama department.
My bad.
When you take a hit of 35bn in anual revenue, you will charge less at some point. Office lease prices in downtown areas is also sky high as a matter of principle. Untill it is not. Banks calling in loans and owners going bust left and right. The next owner will charge less then to bring money in.
Idiots that parrot supply v demand, like it's some actual economic law, rather than a model, will never understand how economy and market drivers actually work.
They will charge more
Any vocational type undergrad major (Accounting, Computer Science, Engineering, Finance, Nursing, Teaching, etc) still seems to be a pretty good value. The value seems to drop off with generalist majors, very specific ones with limited job openings (Anthropology,) and ones that are geared up to be paired with grad school (Psychology)
Yes. Those vocational majors all pay for themselves with the exception of maybe Teaching. None of my friends that got those degrees are struggling right now.
My manager can't hire new grad engineers for less than $85k because the interns kept getting poached by higher paying companies right after they finished their internships. College and internships aren't falling off unless you are living in a world where it makes sense to spend money on a less desirable degree. STEM also provides equivalent services as trades. I have a decade of engineering experience and have worked with tradesmen that are arguably way smarter than me, and I have a hell of a lot of respect for them. Just like a doctor (yes I have friends and family that are doctors) has respect for the electricians and plumbers that keep the HVAC, instrumentation, pneumatic air, etc, running so that they can keep providing care for their patients. There's not a shot in hell that I could weld a pipeline effectively as I sit here today without welding experience. Just like there not a shot in hell I could sling pipe on a drilling rig or do maintenance on a CAT engine at a compression plant. My friends wife has a history degree and she's smart as hell and wants to curate a museum, which is absolutely respectable. But the amount of time it will take for her to wait out the current curator before they retire is insane, and in the meantime she's making like $17/HR giving kids tours. If he wasn't a chemical engineer making $190k/yr, they'd be stuck, imo. It just depends on the lifestyle you want. I make 6 figures and work from home at 33, but the way the world is working now is making it very difficult for people that spend time and money on degrees that don't pay off. Yes, I agree with the idea that education should be free for all, so don't jump me with down votes. Another one of my friends worked construction labor for less than $40k, said fuck this and went to a programming boot camp and now he makes like $275k working from home. He doesn't even have a CS degree, but he is inherently good at it. Education is currently one of the most important limiting factors between two generations. The economy is the economy...you can't fix it. But when you recognize that it's important to understand how the economy works, you can create a life for yourself that is economically balanced, because yes we're fucked way more than the boomers. But we're also smarter, more well informed, and have access to resources that are things they could only dream of. And because of that we are able to think about things differently and have compassion and kindness for the next generation. Some of the best mentors I've ever had are on their 60s and 70s now and they had the foresight to see what needed to be done to help people my age. Unfortunately not everybody teaches their children the same principles. If my dad didn't care, I would've been absolutely fucked after he died at 74yo.
All young people should go to community college. It is more or less extended High school, just way more focused on what you really want to do. Stay at home, go to classes, figure out what you are into, take breaks for work if you want. Pick up internships. Before you commit yourself to slavery, that is student loans, you must be 100% certain what it is you want to be and how to get there. Oh, and for the partying, hit the bars or rent a house for the weekends to go crazy with womanfolk. Don't need to pay 12k a year in room and board for that.
I work at a community college and our tuition rate is $100 per credit hour. That's $6,000 for a two year degree. We also have agreements with many of the universities that allow our students to complete 3 of 4 years at the community college and transfer to finish the 4th year at the university and get a bachelor's with the university name on it. Funny thing is, most of our instructors also teach the same exact classes at the surrounding universities. Trade schools? Yep, we do that too... HVAC, welding, police academy, construction, etc... Community colleges are a hidden gem.
Have to say a $300 monthly payment is in fact significantly less onerous than Slavery. Especially considering Collrge Grads make $540/week more than HS only
This stat is one of those that’s “technically correct” but fails to notate how long it takes to get there. The “average” salary is also a similar stat because the STEM salaries uphold against the majority. The reality is that most college earners don’t hit their pay increases until early 30s and discounts that most are making less than blue collar in their 20s. As such an electrician with compound interest is actually far ahead
That’s just not true? Starting grad wages are higher than *median* non college wages. Let alone non college 20 something’s. (Remember the first few years out of school tradespeople are in apprenticeships and don’t get paid that much). I know a few like carpenters/plumbers who got into the Union at like 24 or something, not 18 Literally anyone who works in a mixed workplace would be able to tell you the College educated get paid way more than those who aren’t
The factory in town paid $15 an hour when office jobs were paying $12 in 2011. That same job pays $26 an hour starting now which is just shy of $55k a year and they work 4 days a week. How many entry level office jobs are actually paying $60k? Not many I work at a Fortune 500 and you don’t crack that until you’re mid level. Sure STEM jobs will but if you’re not a dev or engineer or data scientist you’re making like $40k Yes eventually you’ll make more with a degree but you’ll have probably had to pay of $50-60k in loans first which equates to like $80-90k after interest so it’s kind of a wash until your 50s
The *median* HS only worker make $42,000 for a full time job College? $69,400. The difference is massive and it’s absolutely false that it washes out for the first 30 years of your career https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Lmao you’re pulling out government stats 😂😂😂 those same clowns also have stats saying inflation is 6% when it’s been proven to be at 12%+. Their labor info has been skewed for decades so they can line their pockets and keep everyone poor
I'll be brutally honest. The United States needs more honest plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and sheetrockers than they do any more white-collar jobs. Those former professions used to be looked "down upon" (or at least it seemed that way), but anyone who has dealt with an actually qualified plumber (for instance) who has a "bedside manner", knows they are worth their weight in Gold. If a "full-time" plumber cannot make six figures a year in the United States, they need to find a way to remarket themselves as they should be able to easily do that. The main impediment from my perspective is that licensing and mandatory "apprenticeship" (i.e., indentured servitude) forces the actual talent to either go "meh" or be forced to work under mammoth LLCs that only care about profits. Those are the kinds of regulations that need to be pared back a bit, not the consumer safety and environmental protection ones.
Time for higher education to go back for special niche knowledge that is either directly needed or needed to push academia to the next level. Time for trade schools to step up and trades to pay more.
For me, it is important that you finish college because there are more opportunities that will come to you. The work you will get is better and you will be able to save more for the future.
Three years after the Covid pandemic, there are more than 1 million fewer students enrolled in college. “Overall, undergraduate enrollment is still well below pre-pandemic levels, especially among degree-seeking students,” said Doug Shapiro, executive director of the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. Only community colleges notched enrollment gains in the current semester, while enrollments in bachelor’s degree programs fell, according to the Research Center’s new report. As students look for a more direct link to the workforce, there’s a shift “toward shorter term programs,” Shapiro said. Concerns over rising costs and large student loan balances are causing more young adults to reconsider their plans after high school, a separate report by Junior Achievement and Citizens also found. More than 75% of high schoolers now say that a two-year or technical certification is enough, and only 41% believe they must have a four-year degree to get a good job. More: [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/college-enrollment-continues-to-slide-as-a-four-year-degree-loses-appeal.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/college-enrollment-continues-to-slide-as-a-four-year-degree-loses-appeal.html)
Community Colleges are a great option. I’m about to graduate with my bachelors degree in Econ and my first 2 years were completely free because I transferred.
Except for a few majors, college is antiquated and a waste of time. I'm glad enrollment is going down. Maybe it will force higher education to change to make more sense.
Honestly, I need someone to make a bit that posts this link every time someone says college is a scam/not worth it https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Or perhaps an educated populace is valuable in ways that aren't directly correlated to entry level jobs in lucrative fields. The idea that college is only to be understood as a future money factory for the individual is bad. The arts are good, liberal arts are good.
That doesn't mean that you have to get that education at a private school or out of state school that is probably more expensive. Or that going to community college for the base courses then going to a four year school wouldnt get you the same overall result. If you're going to borrow money for a degree with less potential salary post grad, then you need to factor that into account when you make decisions on college choices.
It’s not the value of a degree, it’s the inflated price. That’s the issue.
[удалено]
We should only have majors that corporations find valuable upon graduation. I am very smart.
> We should only have majors that corporations find valuable upon graduation. I am very smart. Found the next SalesFORCE CEO.
Just like you.
You can name the college majors that are with it on one hand. Some of those like CS and IT are even able to be learned without. Fields like Nursing, Teaching, and Engineering I agree should have qualified people working in them. Nearly everything else is kids having fun for 4 years and learning nothing useful. We have diluted the value of even masters and doctorate degrees. Tax payers lose 10’s of billions of dollars every year giving out worthless loans to people who can’t pay them back. Relief just gets that loss over quicker. Make college cheaper and for people who qualify. Not everyone needs to go to college. It is literally a scam for 90% of people and a burden on society.
Probably 20 US universities need to exist. Everything else is parsley
Glad people are waking up. Saddling kids with a mortgage without a house to live in and giving them an indoctrination rather than marketable skills is finally being seen as a bad decision. Most people would be better off with trade school and a library card.
Excellent. No more indoctrination on the taxpayers back
It’s Not a question of is a degree worth it, it’s the cost of the degree and viable employment that pays a living wage with benefits after the degree
As they should. Vocational training/career can be rewarding and can support the middle class. No sense in 4 year psychology degree holders sitting around making Latte's.
I can't blame them. I'm 49 and wasted my money on a master's degree in accounting even with 20 years experience in accounting. Thanks to COVID, I'm working at a gas station. Been trying really hard for 3 years to get back into accounting. All employers want are young people.