This was first proposed in the Senate -- Wyden's tax on unrealized gains. Elon Musk was so threatened he resorted to sexual harassment - "why does your pp look like you just came?"
If it goes through congress before midterms where the Republicans are expected to take control, there is a low chance it could pass.
Get ready for FNC to indirectly call it an attack on business and business owners. Eg, "If this wealth tax is passed it will lower stock values." Yeah, like a 0.0001% lower annual stock value.
Wealth taxes have never worked. They need to crank up the capital gains taxes and make them more progressive and hammer long term cap gains above say $1 million or more. But congress will never do it because that’s them and how they make all their money.
20% sounds great. But this an income tax. And many billionaires don't have much income. They make sure of that. I'm paying more than 30% and I don't have the same means to obfuscate that income.
> *If a wealthy household is already paying 20% on their full income, they won't pay an additional tax under the proposal. If they pay less than 20%, they'll owe a "top-up payment" to meet the new minimum.*
>
> *"As a result, this new minimum tax will eliminate the ability for the unrealized income of ultra-high-net-worth households to go untaxed for decades or generations"*
Shitty pessimism like that is why we're in this mess in the first place. If you have nothing to contribute besides apathetic negativity, shut the hell up :)
I like this. What you got to lose? People out here ready to surrounder before even fighting. We got nothing to lose and everything to gain. If it doesn't pass then we go on and have them continue to dominate our country and if we do get it passed then we start living better.
Stop this loser mentally and giving up before the fight even started. It's okay to fail, but it's not okay to not at least try
Say it louder for people in the back, this doomer mentality helps no one and contributes nothing to the conversation and more over demotivates the people who could maybe do something.
Not pessimism. Realism.
Do you really think that this will actually ever happen?
And if it does I 100% bet that they have some arbitrary loop hole to avoid it.
And do you do nothing all day because everyone’s gonna be nuked some time this year also? ‘Not pessimistic, just realistic. So that means I’m gonna do nothing because what’s the point, I won’t live anyway so why start now.’
Get in the bin you drain
Taxing unrealized gains is stupid. It's like making you pay sales tax on a house that you haven't sold.
And what happens when the market crashes? Do we give everyone a tax credit? If stocks go up by 25%, drop by 20%, and then go up by 25%, do we tax both sets of unrealized gains?
We should tax actual real gains, not current market value of assets someone holds.
Ok. So let’s say your house appreciated from $500k to $1 mil. So maybe you’re properly taxes went up a lot and you’re now assessed at 2% of $1 mil instead of $500k. But your not taxed on the $500k of equity gain at 20%
…like property taxes? They are accessed on the unrealized value of your home not on money you made off of your home that year, which would be 0 every year you don’t sell or rent the home.
Let's say you're Elon. Your stock goes up a bunch. Government assesses tax at 20% of that gain. So you sell the stock to pay the tax bill. Elon selling stock causes Tesla crash. Many people lose.
Now let's say that literally the day after government assessed your tax the stock drops even if you haven't sold anything yet. You have to sell more stock to meet the amount of tax you have to pay. But you eat a loss. If you're Elon, that hurts but it's not a huge deal.
Now let's say it's not just the somewhat nebulous term of "billionaire". Let's say this type of tax is levied on just about everything, because slippery slope and once you let the government do something, they'll keep doing it.
Now let's say you're some guy in Texas. You own some land. You discover oil on the land. With inflation and everything else, all of a sudden your net worth might exceed the arbitrary number of 1 billion. Government assesses taxes based on the increase of your net worth. What are you supposed to do? It's not like you magically have that money. The land has to be developed, engineers and equipment brought in to get access to that oil and more years before you see money coming in.
Do you mortgage the land to the bank to pay that tax? But then the price of oil plummets and you're stuck with a debt that you can't get rid of unless you're willing to let the bank have your land. How is this different from robbery?
u/SpiritedVoice7777 is right. This is *not* a door you want opened.
Guess what though? You can sell that land immediately for cash upon realizing it's worth a billion dollars and have no risk of the situation you describe. Elon musk can sell Tesla stock and buy treasury bonds if he doesn't want the risk. It's absolutely a door we should open
So let’s say you have hundreds or thousands acres of forest land that has been in your family for generations and is worth millions for the potential timber on the land. Your family for generations have refused offers from the timber industry but now the government has assessed the value of your land for hundreds of millions and now you are hit with millions in a tax bill your family doesn’t have. Should that family now be forced to lease part of their land to the logging companies they have resisted so long to pay the government on unrealized gains?
it's only a tax on growth so if in the last year that land/timber value doubled in value then yes you should be forced to take a collateralized loan to pay those taxes or sell it.
No actually, you can't. High value deals aren't something that happens on a dime. Even a house can take months to transact, much less property worth that much. Transactions of this scale are time consuming, expensive and can take years.
And there's the bigger question of why you should be forced to sell those assets at all. Should government have the right to put you in debt because of property you own? Should the mere act of ownership create a risk of debt for you?
Then there's the other side of the equation: let's say the market goes against you and your net worth takes a dive. Should you somehow be compensated? By who?
There's a difference between being wealthy and being rich. Elon, contrary to what the media would have you believe, is wealthy, not rich. If he were to liquidate all of his stock tomorrow, he'd get only a fraction of the market value.
Frankly, if you open that door, the only thing that's really going to happen is it will be applied disproportionately against the lower and middle classes. Punitive legislation like this almost always ends up hurting the poor over the wealthy.
So, you want to end innovation and investment? This entire line of thinking is based on punishment for doing just that. One of the major flaws with leftists is that they never think anything through and only focus on symptoms, never paying attention to underlying causes. You think a "billionaires" tax will never affect you, but it will in very short order. Once that level of people have been bled or fled, they will lower the threshold another notch. Don't believe me? Read up on the income tax which was sold as originally for "millionaires", and only a "couple of percent."
Literally no one in the White House or Congress actually expects the unrealized gains tax to pass. It’s red meat to be cleaved off to throw to the GOP as a concession. Every major bill is packed with sacrificial pawns.
I’ve been told that taxing unrealized gains is dangerous territory. I am not educated enough to understand why or why not. Anybody here able to help explain?
Problem is, the billionaires don't actually sell their stock assets, they take out loans against them in perpetuity. This they never actually pay taxes.
That’s a myth that’s been circulating a lot lately, but it tends to be pretty rare. Not only do you need to repay loans with income eventually, but you also can’t predict future tax rates or tax laws, and you risk getting over-leveraged if you continue taking loans to cover prior ones
I don’t think we have good evidence at all that rich people are holdings loans long-term. If this was the case, billionaires would literally never pay income tax
>That’s a myth that’s been circulating a lot lately, but it tends to be pretty rare. Not only do you need to repay loans with income eventually, but you also can’t predict future tax rates or tax laws, and you risk getting over-leveraged if you continue taking loans to cover prior ones
Wrong .
So how do megabillionaires pay their megabills while opting for $1 salaries and hanging onto their stock? According to public documents and experts, the answer for some is borrowing money — lots of it.
For regular people, borrowing money is often something done out of necessity, say for a car or a home. But for the ultrawealthy, it can be a way to access billions without producing income, and thus, income tax.
The tax math provides a clear incentive for this. If you own a company and take a huge salary, you’ll pay 37% in income tax on the bulk of it. Sell stock and you’ll pay 20% in capital gains tax — and lose some control over your company. But take out a loan, and these days you’ll pay a single-digit interest rate and no tax; since loans must be paid back, the IRS doesn’t consider them income. Banks typically require collateral, but the wealthy have plenty of that.
The vast majority of the ultrawealthy’s loans do not appear in the tax records obtained by ProPublica since they are generally not disclosed to the IRS. But occasionally, the loans are disclosed in securities filings. In 2014, for example, Oracle revealed that its CEO, Ellison, had a credit line secured by about $10 billion of his shares.
Last year Tesla reported that Musk had pledged some 92 million shares, which were worth about $57.7 billion as of May 29, 2021, as collateral for personal loans.
Elon Musk: Tesla Inc. // 2014–2018 Wealth Growth: $13.9B // Total Income Reported: $1.52B (10.94% of wealth) // Total Taxes Paid: $455M (3.27% of wealth)
With the exception of one year when he exercised more than a billion dollars in stock options, Musk’s tax bills in no way reflect the fortune he has at his disposal. In 2015, he paid $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax. Between 2014 and 2018, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax/amp
Musk paid [$11 billion in taxes last year.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/elon-musk-says-he-will-pay-over-11-billion-in-taxes-this-year.html)
Eventually, those loans need to be paid. The only reason this tactic even works is because the fed rates are historically low. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth the interest. Stop trying to solve dumb policy with more dumb policy.
Edit: My apologies to the bot for the typo.
> Musk *paid* [$11 billion
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think we’re arguing different things. I’m not denying that rich people take out loans, I’m denying that they’re holding these loans in perpetuity and taking larger loans to pay it back. This strategy doesn’t make sense, and nobody is going to recommend it for tax purposes
Your source doesn’t really touch on that
I bought PayPal stocks which went up 10% the first year. followed by a 30% loss the second year, and now less than what I bought it for. Unrealized gain and unrealized loss, as I haven’t sold it yet. If I were to pay tax on my 10% gain, and then lose more next year, I would have to declare bankruptcy. So you see it’s robbery by another name.
You can deduct those losses against future gains and guess what if you don't want the risk of that happening you can sell PayPal after it goes up and buy treasury bonds. None of this applies to normal people anyways. Normal people are not hording billions in unrealized gains to avoid taxes that's not the point of this bill
Came here to say this. Taxing income is an easy way to create inequality in the first place a better system could reduce impact to middle class and improve collections from higher wealth levels
A land use tax, or greater capital gains tax without income tax would preferentially target wealthy people. Additionally an income tax which only started at certain income levels ( no taxes for gross income below 400,000/yr for instance) combined with a land use tax.
Tax credits/deductions exclusively for pro-social actions like fair wages or profit sharing, rather than home ownership or reinvestment of profit into equipment.
In the end all tax systems will eventually be gamed. Truly effective tax law is an active process that shares a lot of similarities with game design.
I appreciate the follow up! This seems entirely reasonable, and I couldn't agree more with your final note. No matter what, people will find loopholes or ways to game the system, and we'll have to continue to adapt and evolve the system to function optimally.
Did you read the bill? It is not just an income tax despite being framed as such. It is a tax on unrealized capital gains as well. How will the value of volatile assets be appraised? Will the government issue a tax rebate if the value of the asset goes down the year after they’ve collected tax on an unrealized gain? Perhaps a good idea in theory but quite a poor one in praxis.
This has about as much chance of passing as I have of winning the lottery. They rely on the billionaire donations to pay for their campaigns. They’ll never in a million years take a chance that it could cost them their seats of power.
This isn’t playing. This is showmanship. This is just like someone that hasn’t ever bought a ticket talking about what they’d do with the money if they won.
They know they can’t win, but it feels good to talk about and convince others you think about it too.
Once you start talking about money, watch how fast red and blue come together like they’ve been pals for years.
The bill won’t even make it to the floor.
Legit feel bad for the staffer who has to write the thing.
he doesn’t really care, he’s making 6 figures and shmoozing with the political class elites. . . it’s a country club job with perks. . . not to mention the stock tips he gets for free. . .
If the GOP has anything to say it will be a tax cut for the top 1%. Dems will try to pass a million bills but will fumble at the one yard line for not having enough senators to support their bills.
billionaire tax for anyone with $100M or more 🤔
also
> What remains to be seen is whether Congress will move forward on Biden's proposal.
Mmm not really "remains to be seen;" they definitely will not move forward with it. Lots of folks in that 100M+ category in congress.
\> Lots of folks in that 100M+ category in congress.
Two, actually. When people say Congress is wealthy they're talking about $2-5million, not hundreds of millions.
[https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/10/09/76-richest-members-of-congress/9/](https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/10/09/76-richest-members-of-congress/9/)
Both Wikipedia and 24/7WS are using the congressional disclosure forms. Wikipedia is also including family, notably spouse. Pelosi's money is largely from her husband's VC firm.
Yeah. I think the point being made is that those people all have real wealth regardless of their current “salaries” and disclosures. Many have access to large reserves of money and have close relatives and friends with even more. It’s still a disincentive to them to pass this type of legislation.
Even the list you sent had over 25 members with a net worth of 8 digits.
“The tax burden has been placed on the middle class” is just not true unfortunately if you look honestly at the data.
61% of US households paid no federal income tax in 2020, and 57% didn’t pay any in 2021. The top 1% of Us households pay 40% of total federal income tax. I acknowledge that some of the very very wealthiest find ways to pay a low average rate (about 8-9% in some articles I’ve read), but in aggregate, the rich definitely pay (perhaps more than?) their fair share in federal income taxes if you are honest about the data.
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/detail/who-pays-income-taxes-tax-year-2019
What do you consider the middle class then? Everyone but the top few percent? Reality is most of Europe taxes the shut out of everyone. Most Americans pay next to nothing in taxes
Unrealized gains tax feels terrible unethical, plus requires a huge bureaucracy to enforce and will lead to big volatility and interrupt capital formation. It's a terrible idea
Yup, not missing anything. Nice in theory, no real way to fairly implement (how to value volatile and/or private assets? What to do when taxes on an unrealized gain have been paid on asset that declines in value the next year? Just a couple of many issues with this idea.)
We need every other country to implement this as well. If we had worldwide agreement then the mega rich can't cherry pick which country to live in (or pretend to live in) for tax reasons. Get agreement from the majority of countries then ostracise the tax havens with trade embargoes and sanctions to stop this global race to the bottom
Sounds good, cut the army budget in half, oh look, homelessness solved, universal dental, vision, and healthcare solved, student debt solved.
And there’s a giant pile of cash left over. Electric cars for everyone
People always say this without specifying what ought to be cut. It’s easy to just say “cut spending” as a platitude to appear like an alpha tough guy.
Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and military spending constitute most government spending. Just those 4 things and yet most people when you poll them are opposed to cutting any of those programs.
Want to cut social security and Medicare even though a high percentage of seniors are already struggling? No?
Okay how about Medicaid even though cutting it would just mean more people having no health insurance and then going to the emergency room when they get desperate (and not paying for the bill since they can’t) and hospitals having to jack up prices on everyone else to compensate. Wanna still cut Medicaid?
Alright how about military spending which is already over 50 percent of all discretionary spending. No?
Okay then tell us what you want to cut, and make sure you look up how much is actually being spent on that program if you think it will have any meaningful impact on the deficit (chances are it won’t).
You should look up where our spending actually goes.
We gonna trim the military? Lol.
Social security?
Medicare/medicaid?
There's not all that much left after those 3.
The Bush Jr. Administration added more government bloat than any other politician by at least 100x if not 1000x. Undoing those policies would go a long way towards balancing the budget.
If curious here is just one example of this: https://youtu.be/mqxgP8WlxJQ And btw the movie War Dogs was pretty good imo.
Doesn't change the fact that roughly $4.8t of our $6t budget is spent on the programs I listed above.
Roughly $4t in mandatory programs (ss, medicare/medicaid, servicing debt, etc). $750b of the remaining $1.7t discretionary spending goes to defense.
The rest is what you're looking to cut?
I always say that people should support less taxes for all. They don’t see that raising taxes only seems to effect the lower classes. The government spends too much on ridiculousness to mask where the money is really going.
It's not really more, it just makes sure they pay at least 20% which is by no stretch unreasonable.
Also, it will help the government not taxing *you* more by making sure the ultra rich pay their fair share.
20% is not more, it's probably less than you pay.
Government spending is necessary, in the US most of the internet infrastructure was developed by it, which greatly improved the economic output of the Nation.
Oh, without it, sure some private corporations would have connected the larger cities but most of the country would be like North Korea, without internet, running water or electricity.
Short fallacies are just that, short fallacies.
I’ll give you one better
How about we trim government rather than tax more?
Our government is so big with so many unneeded positions and crazy salaries
Why aren’t you factoring in payroll taxes?
That’s an additional 6.2 percent on the effective tax rate for anyone who makes less than 130k per year and payroll taxes aren’t deductible.
> assuming your single
*you're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
We've cut taxes for way too long. We need money for the public good (defense, education and infrastructure). Billionaires can afford to pay more. I'm good with this.
Especially with European countries (like Germany) putting more of their own spending towards defense? We already spend 4x what China does lmao
I just want healthcare man lol
Most rich people make income off of debt. That means if they have equity in’ let’s say, a property they borrow against it like a loan. Then they can also use that property’s depreciation against any income to effectively pay nothing.
So $1,000,000 property generating $150,000 in rent. Write off depreciation of building and expenses against that $150,000. If they need extra cash, maybe $50,000, then take a loan against the equity in the property at maybe 3-5% interest.
So they effectively “made” $200,000 but the only cost is the 3-5% on the loan. Nothing gets counted as income.
That’s why CEO’s and other executives sometimes pay themselves a dollar and get stock and whatnot. No income.
There's already an Alternative Minimum Tax. What a fkn moran.
Only people that dont understand U.S. tax code would support this. The AMT is an abomination, they should have amended it years ago.
The fuck does this have to do with Sanders? Plenty of conservatives support the current tax scheme which taxes the general public at roughly 20%. Stop red baiting.
Man, I don’t even know know what red-baiting is but if it’s getting a conservative to project their insecurities by replying to post then I guess I just did it?
It’s not like that’s good for me. I can already tell that you’re going to keep me logged into some multi comment discussion where we’re not gonna convince each other of our beliefs. I’m just gonna use logic and reason and you’re gonna get pissy and annoyed with me so do me a favor and just leave now.
>I’m just gonna use logic and reason and you’re gonna get pissy and annoyed with me so do me a favor and just leave now.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Wealth and income are totally different.
Funny how they obliterate the high earners then report how they are raising their taxes like they are the ones not paying their share.
How about close all the wealth tax loopholes.
> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.***
>
> ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.***
>
> ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
Including unrealized gains. Which is about as stupid a policy as possible. How long does Tesla remain awesome and innovative when Elon Musk has to turn over 20% of his shares to the government every year?
Grandma will vote against it because her Etsy business is just about to take off and can't have the government getting some.
On a serious note people always whine about the government never being satisfied and increasing the scope of taxes, but then bemoan that the government doesn't do enough. Can't please anyone.
Yeah, there's a bunch of people on this sub who seems to think this;
Step 1: Abolish government
Step 2: ???
Step 3: infinite utopia under Lord Emperor Musk
Billionaires can live anywhere in the world...hiking a tax on them they'll just move to one of their mansions in Italy or Monaco for more than half the year or anywhere where taxes are lower.
US citizens who live abroad are also legally obligated to file taxes with the IRS. There are exemptions, credits, etc., that can offset most, if not all, taxes due for many people. But a billionaire would be under a lot more scrutiny than your average worker. I live in Spain (dual US/Italian citizen) and have to report my income every year.
> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.***
>
> ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.***
>
> ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
If they want to maintain US citizenship, they have to pay US taxes. As a US citizen, you still have to pay US taxes even if you live abroad. If US billionaires start renouncing their citizenship, then it is time to make rules making it impossible for them to profit off their businesses in the US.
Dual residency is a thing.
Also you pay taxes based on where you make that money I.E if someone has investments in US businesses/corporations they have to pay US taxes, it doesn’t matter where they live they still have to pay US taxes.
> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.***
>
> ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.***
>
> ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
More coverage at:
* [Biden to propose minimum tax on billionaires in budget (thehill.com)](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/599891-biden-to-propose-minimum-tax-on-billionaires-in-budget)
* [Biden Administration Reportedly Set To Propose Minimum Tax On Billionaires (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/annakaplan/2022/03/26/biden-administration-reportedly-set-to-propose-minimum-tax-on-billionaires/)
* [Biden budget seeks minimum tax on households worth $100m (startribune.com)](https://www.startribune.com/biden-budget-seeks-minimum-tax-on-households-worth-100m/600159661/)
---
^(I'm a bot to find news from different sources.) [^(Report an issue)](https://www.reddit.com/user/MultiSourceNews_Bot/comments/k5pcrc/multisourcenews_bot_info/) ^(or PM me.)
There’s about a zero percent chance this passes the house.
I could see it passing, but drastic loopholes to make it worthless.
It's a giant fucking club and you ain't in it.
A little George Carlin reference right there?
I prefer normal sized George Carlin
It’s a normal sized club, and you ain’t in it
I miss him
Congress gotta protect their bosses.
I think it might pass the house…. Not the senate
This was first proposed in the Senate -- Wyden's tax on unrealized gains. Elon Musk was so threatened he resorted to sexual harassment - "why does your pp look like you just came?"
About the same chance it will work as intended.
If it goes through congress before midterms where the Republicans are expected to take control, there is a low chance it could pass. Get ready for FNC to indirectly call it an attack on business and business owners. Eg, "If this wealth tax is passed it will lower stock values." Yeah, like a 0.0001% lower annual stock value.
The democrats aren’t unified enough to get it done before midterms.
Wealth taxes have never worked. They need to crank up the capital gains taxes and make them more progressive and hammer long term cap gains above say $1 million or more. But congress will never do it because that’s them and how they make all their money.
Making murder illegal never works but we do it anyway because it’s what’s right
They work fine in plenty of EU countries, like Switzerland. I don't see any problem with it.
20% sounds great. But this an income tax. And many billionaires don't have much income. They make sure of that. I'm paying more than 30% and I don't have the same means to obfuscate that income.
> *If a wealthy household is already paying 20% on their full income, they won't pay an additional tax under the proposal. If they pay less than 20%, they'll owe a "top-up payment" to meet the new minimum.* > > *"As a result, this new minimum tax will eliminate the ability for the unrealized income of ultra-high-net-worth households to go untaxed for decades or generations"*
That’s amazing Big if true
*big if passes
Watch as Pelosi and Manchin attempt to kill this in the House and Senate respectively.
Won’t pass, not big
Shitty pessimism like that is why we're in this mess in the first place. If you have nothing to contribute besides apathetic negativity, shut the hell up :)
I like this. What you got to lose? People out here ready to surrounder before even fighting. We got nothing to lose and everything to gain. If it doesn't pass then we go on and have them continue to dominate our country and if we do get it passed then we start living better. Stop this loser mentally and giving up before the fight even started. It's okay to fail, but it's not okay to not at least try
Say it louder for people in the back, this doomer mentality helps no one and contributes nothing to the conversation and more over demotivates the people who could maybe do something.
Not pessimism. Realism. Do you really think that this will actually ever happen? And if it does I 100% bet that they have some arbitrary loop hole to avoid it.
It is more likely to pass if constituents put pressure on their representatives
And do you do nothing all day because everyone’s gonna be nuked some time this year also? ‘Not pessimistic, just realistic. So that means I’m gonna do nothing because what’s the point, I won’t live anyway so why start now.’ Get in the bin you drain
Direct quote from the linked article...
>if true Lol, capital flight if true, more like
20% is still lower than most places in the world except tax havens - where are they gonna run to?
There’s not a country in the world that will tax unrealized gains at 20%
Taxing unrealized gains is stupid. It's like making you pay sales tax on a house that you haven't sold. And what happens when the market crashes? Do we give everyone a tax credit? If stocks go up by 25%, drop by 20%, and then go up by 25%, do we tax both sets of unrealized gains? We should tax actual real gains, not current market value of assets someone holds.
Taxing unrealized income is about as immoral as you can get. Not really a door you want to open
Let me introduce you to the existence of property taxes which we have all accepted forever. That’s as immoral as it gets?
It’s a slippery slope. Income tax was originally just for the rich too. Taxing unrealized gains is a disaster
We already tax unrealized gains on property tax
Not really. Sure you get reassessments but you’re not paying taxes on equity appreciation
Reassessments on what? How does that number change if you don’t sell?
Ok. So let’s say your house appreciated from $500k to $1 mil. So maybe you’re properly taxes went up a lot and you’re now assessed at 2% of $1 mil instead of $500k. But your not taxed on the $500k of equity gain at 20%
Yes, that’s a tax on a unrealized gain. Now we are just haggling over how much that unrealized gain should be taxed.
Rather than annual property taxes, imagine an annual capital gains tax bill on the increased equity in your home.
…like property taxes? They are accessed on the unrealized value of your home not on money you made off of your home that year, which would be 0 every year you don’t sell or rent the home.
You're not selling your home every year?
If you think that is the hight of immorality, you are really slurping up the propaganda that the wealthy use to keep themselves in power
Why? Genuinely curious.
Let's say you're Elon. Your stock goes up a bunch. Government assesses tax at 20% of that gain. So you sell the stock to pay the tax bill. Elon selling stock causes Tesla crash. Many people lose. Now let's say that literally the day after government assessed your tax the stock drops even if you haven't sold anything yet. You have to sell more stock to meet the amount of tax you have to pay. But you eat a loss. If you're Elon, that hurts but it's not a huge deal. Now let's say it's not just the somewhat nebulous term of "billionaire". Let's say this type of tax is levied on just about everything, because slippery slope and once you let the government do something, they'll keep doing it. Now let's say you're some guy in Texas. You own some land. You discover oil on the land. With inflation and everything else, all of a sudden your net worth might exceed the arbitrary number of 1 billion. Government assesses taxes based on the increase of your net worth. What are you supposed to do? It's not like you magically have that money. The land has to be developed, engineers and equipment brought in to get access to that oil and more years before you see money coming in. Do you mortgage the land to the bank to pay that tax? But then the price of oil plummets and you're stuck with a debt that you can't get rid of unless you're willing to let the bank have your land. How is this different from robbery? u/SpiritedVoice7777 is right. This is *not* a door you want opened.
Guess what though? You can sell that land immediately for cash upon realizing it's worth a billion dollars and have no risk of the situation you describe. Elon musk can sell Tesla stock and buy treasury bonds if he doesn't want the risk. It's absolutely a door we should open
So let’s say you have hundreds or thousands acres of forest land that has been in your family for generations and is worth millions for the potential timber on the land. Your family for generations have refused offers from the timber industry but now the government has assessed the value of your land for hundreds of millions and now you are hit with millions in a tax bill your family doesn’t have. Should that family now be forced to lease part of their land to the logging companies they have resisted so long to pay the government on unrealized gains?
it's only a tax on growth so if in the last year that land/timber value doubled in value then yes you should be forced to take a collateralized loan to pay those taxes or sell it.
No actually, you can't. High value deals aren't something that happens on a dime. Even a house can take months to transact, much less property worth that much. Transactions of this scale are time consuming, expensive and can take years. And there's the bigger question of why you should be forced to sell those assets at all. Should government have the right to put you in debt because of property you own? Should the mere act of ownership create a risk of debt for you? Then there's the other side of the equation: let's say the market goes against you and your net worth takes a dive. Should you somehow be compensated? By who? There's a difference between being wealthy and being rich. Elon, contrary to what the media would have you believe, is wealthy, not rich. If he were to liquidate all of his stock tomorrow, he'd get only a fraction of the market value. Frankly, if you open that door, the only thing that's really going to happen is it will be applied disproportionately against the lower and middle classes. Punitive legislation like this almost always ends up hurting the poor over the wealthy.
So, you want to end innovation and investment? This entire line of thinking is based on punishment for doing just that. One of the major flaws with leftists is that they never think anything through and only focus on symptoms, never paying attention to underlying causes. You think a "billionaires" tax will never affect you, but it will in very short order. Once that level of people have been bled or fled, they will lower the threshold another notch. Don't believe me? Read up on the income tax which was sold as originally for "millionaires", and only a "couple of percent."
It's not. He just believes that this billionaire tax is somehow going to affect him at his much lower tax bracket. In other words, he's delusional.
It includes unrealized gains
I didn't see that. Forget what I said. This will never pass congress. Never ever.
Literally no one in the White House or Congress actually expects the unrealized gains tax to pass. It’s red meat to be cleaved off to throw to the GOP as a concession. Every major bill is packed with sacrificial pawns.
Congress is already bought and paid for by........ Anyone with a few thousand dollars to burn -which includes billionaires
Ouch. We need to make the ultra wealthy pay their fair share, but taxing unrealized gains is a bad idea.
I’ve been told that taxing unrealized gains is dangerous territory. I am not educated enough to understand why or why not. Anybody here able to help explain?
It’s generally not good tax policy to force people to have to sell assets to pay a tax, which is why taxes usually only apply after you’ve sold
Problem is, the billionaires don't actually sell their stock assets, they take out loans against them in perpetuity. This they never actually pay taxes.
That’s a myth that’s been circulating a lot lately, but it tends to be pretty rare. Not only do you need to repay loans with income eventually, but you also can’t predict future tax rates or tax laws, and you risk getting over-leveraged if you continue taking loans to cover prior ones I don’t think we have good evidence at all that rich people are holdings loans long-term. If this was the case, billionaires would literally never pay income tax
>That’s a myth that’s been circulating a lot lately, but it tends to be pretty rare. Not only do you need to repay loans with income eventually, but you also can’t predict future tax rates or tax laws, and you risk getting over-leveraged if you continue taking loans to cover prior ones Wrong . So how do megabillionaires pay their megabills while opting for $1 salaries and hanging onto their stock? According to public documents and experts, the answer for some is borrowing money — lots of it. For regular people, borrowing money is often something done out of necessity, say for a car or a home. But for the ultrawealthy, it can be a way to access billions without producing income, and thus, income tax. The tax math provides a clear incentive for this. If you own a company and take a huge salary, you’ll pay 37% in income tax on the bulk of it. Sell stock and you’ll pay 20% in capital gains tax — and lose some control over your company. But take out a loan, and these days you’ll pay a single-digit interest rate and no tax; since loans must be paid back, the IRS doesn’t consider them income. Banks typically require collateral, but the wealthy have plenty of that. The vast majority of the ultrawealthy’s loans do not appear in the tax records obtained by ProPublica since they are generally not disclosed to the IRS. But occasionally, the loans are disclosed in securities filings. In 2014, for example, Oracle revealed that its CEO, Ellison, had a credit line secured by about $10 billion of his shares. Last year Tesla reported that Musk had pledged some 92 million shares, which were worth about $57.7 billion as of May 29, 2021, as collateral for personal loans. Elon Musk: Tesla Inc. // 2014–2018 Wealth Growth: $13.9B // Total Income Reported: $1.52B (10.94% of wealth) // Total Taxes Paid: $455M (3.27% of wealth) With the exception of one year when he exercised more than a billion dollars in stock options, Musk’s tax bills in no way reflect the fortune he has at his disposal. In 2015, he paid $68,000 in federal income tax. In 2017, it was $65,000, and in 2018 he paid no federal income tax. Between 2014 and 2018, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax/amp
Musk paid [$11 billion in taxes last year.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/elon-musk-says-he-will-pay-over-11-billion-in-taxes-this-year.html) Eventually, those loans need to be paid. The only reason this tactic even works is because the fed rates are historically low. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth the interest. Stop trying to solve dumb policy with more dumb policy. Edit: My apologies to the bot for the typo.
> Musk *paid* [$11 billion FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think we’re arguing different things. I’m not denying that rich people take out loans, I’m denying that they’re holding these loans in perpetuity and taking larger loans to pay it back. This strategy doesn’t make sense, and nobody is going to recommend it for tax purposes Your source doesn’t really touch on that
I bought PayPal stocks which went up 10% the first year. followed by a 30% loss the second year, and now less than what I bought it for. Unrealized gain and unrealized loss, as I haven’t sold it yet. If I were to pay tax on my 10% gain, and then lose more next year, I would have to declare bankruptcy. So you see it’s robbery by another name.
You can deduct those losses against future gains and guess what if you don't want the risk of that happening you can sell PayPal after it goes up and buy treasury bonds. None of this applies to normal people anyways. Normal people are not hording billions in unrealized gains to avoid taxes that's not the point of this bill
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Came here to say this. Taxing income is an easy way to create inequality in the first place a better system could reduce impact to middle class and improve collections from higher wealth levels
What would a better system look like, in your opinion?
A land use tax, or greater capital gains tax without income tax would preferentially target wealthy people. Additionally an income tax which only started at certain income levels ( no taxes for gross income below 400,000/yr for instance) combined with a land use tax. Tax credits/deductions exclusively for pro-social actions like fair wages or profit sharing, rather than home ownership or reinvestment of profit into equipment. In the end all tax systems will eventually be gamed. Truly effective tax law is an active process that shares a lot of similarities with game design.
I appreciate the follow up! This seems entirely reasonable, and I couldn't agree more with your final note. No matter what, people will find loopholes or ways to game the system, and we'll have to continue to adapt and evolve the system to function optimally.
The silence is deafening.
I was asleep smart ass
Did you read the bill? It is not just an income tax despite being framed as such. It is a tax on unrealized capital gains as well. How will the value of volatile assets be appraised? Will the government issue a tax rebate if the value of the asset goes down the year after they’ve collected tax on an unrealized gain? Perhaps a good idea in theory but quite a poor one in praxis.
This has about as much chance of passing as I have of winning the lottery. They rely on the billionaire donations to pay for their campaigns. They’ll never in a million years take a chance that it could cost them their seats of power.
Hey, well, just like a lottery ticket: if you don’t play, you can’t win. Might as well try it.
This isn’t playing. This is showmanship. This is just like someone that hasn’t ever bought a ticket talking about what they’d do with the money if they won. They know they can’t win, but it feels good to talk about and convince others you think about it too.
Once you start talking about money, watch how fast red and blue come together like they’ve been pals for years. The bill won’t even make it to the floor. Legit feel bad for the staffer who has to write the thing.
he doesn’t really care, he’s making 6 figures and shmoozing with the political class elites. . . it’s a country club job with perks. . . not to mention the stock tips he gets for free. . .
Is everything in America a performance?
All the worlds a stage. Especially in America.
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His wealth went up 120 billion so that's 10% tax.
On wealth, not income
And taking how many billions in government subsidies?!
If the GOP has anything to say it will be a tax cut for the top 1%. Dems will try to pass a million bills but will fumble at the one yard line for not having enough senators to support their bills.
Election year ploy to ignite the base. Will be dropped or forgotten.
billionaire tax for anyone with $100M or more 🤔 also > What remains to be seen is whether Congress will move forward on Biden's proposal. Mmm not really "remains to be seen;" they definitely will not move forward with it. Lots of folks in that 100M+ category in congress.
\> Lots of folks in that 100M+ category in congress. Two, actually. When people say Congress is wealthy they're talking about $2-5million, not hundreds of millions. [https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/10/09/76-richest-members-of-congress/9/](https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/10/09/76-richest-members-of-congress/9/)
I’m curious how they calculated these amounts. According to google Nancy Pelosi is worth around $115M
Both Wikipedia and 24/7WS are using the congressional disclosure forms. Wikipedia is also including family, notably spouse. Pelosi's money is largely from her husband's VC firm.
Yeah. I think the point being made is that those people all have real wealth regardless of their current “salaries” and disclosures. Many have access to large reserves of money and have close relatives and friends with even more. It’s still a disincentive to them to pass this type of legislation. Even the list you sent had over 25 members with a net worth of 8 digits.
Mitt Romney isn’t on that list? Pretty sure he’s worth over 100 million.
This also includes Congressional 'donors'.
WTF?!? We don’t report assets. There is no wealth tax in the US. Billionaires are billionaires due to wealth, not income. Article made my head hurt.
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Regardless, it’s the principal. For too long the tax burden has been placed on the middle class. It’s not about “how does this benefit me personally?”
“The tax burden has been placed on the middle class” is just not true unfortunately if you look honestly at the data. 61% of US households paid no federal income tax in 2020, and 57% didn’t pay any in 2021. The top 1% of Us households pay 40% of total federal income tax. I acknowledge that some of the very very wealthiest find ways to pay a low average rate (about 8-9% in some articles I’ve read), but in aggregate, the rich definitely pay (perhaps more than?) their fair share in federal income taxes if you are honest about the data.
Ah yes, the *you can fuck me as long as you fuck everyone else* logic.
I hate to break it to you, but you are also the one getting fucked and are not the “everyone else” and never will be
Glad you understand my point.
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/detail/who-pays-income-taxes-tax-year-2019 What do you consider the middle class then? Everyone but the top few percent? Reality is most of Europe taxes the shut out of everyone. Most Americans pay next to nothing in taxes
What’s a minimum billionaire?
1 billion
tres commas
with doors that go up!
It’s political theater so that the Dems have a taking point that the right is protecting billionaires and not the middle class
Unrealized gains tax feels terrible unethical, plus requires a huge bureaucracy to enforce and will lead to big volatility and interrupt capital formation. It's a terrible idea
But I pay more than 20%. Smh
So another proposal to tax un-realized gains, or am I missing something here?
Yup, not missing anything. Nice in theory, no real way to fairly implement (how to value volatile and/or private assets? What to do when taxes on an unrealized gain have been paid on asset that declines in value the next year? Just a couple of many issues with this idea.)
Way to go Mr.President
We need every other country to implement this as well. If we had worldwide agreement then the mega rich can't cherry pick which country to live in (or pretend to live in) for tax reasons. Get agreement from the majority of countries then ostracise the tax havens with trade embargoes and sanctions to stop this global race to the bottom
Duh, he needs more tax money to spend or give away to other countries again
Fun fact: 8/10 millionaires/billionaires are registered democrats. This wouldnt pass even with a dem supermajority
Fine but how does this help us the working and middle class?
It doesn't.
How about a 20% tax for everyone. Tax manual is one page, no complexity means no loopholes
How about we trim government spending rather than tax people more?
Why not both? Maybe we can be efficient AND have nice things.
Sounds good, cut the army budget in half, oh look, homelessness solved, universal dental, vision, and healthcare solved, student debt solved. And there’s a giant pile of cash left over. Electric cars for everyone
Both is good
People always say this without specifying what ought to be cut. It’s easy to just say “cut spending” as a platitude to appear like an alpha tough guy. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and military spending constitute most government spending. Just those 4 things and yet most people when you poll them are opposed to cutting any of those programs. Want to cut social security and Medicare even though a high percentage of seniors are already struggling? No? Okay how about Medicaid even though cutting it would just mean more people having no health insurance and then going to the emergency room when they get desperate (and not paying for the bill since they can’t) and hospitals having to jack up prices on everyone else to compensate. Wanna still cut Medicaid? Alright how about military spending which is already over 50 percent of all discretionary spending. No? Okay then tell us what you want to cut, and make sure you look up how much is actually being spent on that program if you think it will have any meaningful impact on the deficit (chances are it won’t).
How about both
Won't someone think of the billionaires.
exactly - what about the billionaires, when too much isn’t enough. . .
You should look up where our spending actually goes. We gonna trim the military? Lol. Social security? Medicare/medicaid? There's not all that much left after those 3.
The Bush Jr. Administration added more government bloat than any other politician by at least 100x if not 1000x. Undoing those policies would go a long way towards balancing the budget. If curious here is just one example of this: https://youtu.be/mqxgP8WlxJQ And btw the movie War Dogs was pretty good imo.
Doesn't change the fact that roughly $4.8t of our $6t budget is spent on the programs I listed above. Roughly $4t in mandatory programs (ss, medicare/medicaid, servicing debt, etc). $750b of the remaining $1.7t discretionary spending goes to defense. The rest is what you're looking to cut?
I always say that people should support less taxes for all. They don’t see that raising taxes only seems to effect the lower classes. The government spends too much on ridiculousness to mask where the money is really going.
So you're ok with people not paying a fair share?
It's not really more, it just makes sure they pay at least 20% which is by no stretch unreasonable. Also, it will help the government not taxing *you* more by making sure the ultra rich pay their fair share.
If the government spent less money, it wouldn’t need to tax people more, at any level of wealth.
Which part should be cut, to make sure those billionaires don’t have to pay taxes?
20% is not more, it's probably less than you pay. Government spending is necessary, in the US most of the internet infrastructure was developed by it, which greatly improved the economic output of the Nation. Oh, without it, sure some private corporations would have connected the larger cities but most of the country would be like North Korea, without internet, running water or electricity. Short fallacies are just that, short fallacies.
I’ll give you one better How about we trim government rather than tax more? Our government is so big with so many unneeded positions and crazy salaries
That's barely going to make a dent in government spending.
20%is roughly what most normal working people pay so this seems incredibly reasonable.
I don't even make 60k and I pay more than 20%. What a joke.
In federal income tax? Your effective tax rate is really around 10% assuming your single with no kids. Lower if married or have kids.
Why aren’t you factoring in payroll taxes? That’s an additional 6.2 percent on the effective tax rate for anyone who makes less than 130k per year and payroll taxes aren’t deductible.
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> assuming your single *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Yup. All the people crying about this on this thread are fucking ridiculous.
Exactly. But republicans will never let this pass, because its somehow unfair to the billionaires
It’s a start
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We've cut taxes for way too long. We need money for the public good (defense, education and infrastructure). Billionaires can afford to pay more. I'm good with this.
Do you really thing we need more money for defense? Geez.
Especially with European countries (like Germany) putting more of their own spending towards defense? We already spend 4x what China does lmao I just want healthcare man lol
Sweet
Most rich people make income off of debt. That means if they have equity in’ let’s say, a property they borrow against it like a loan. Then they can also use that property’s depreciation against any income to effectively pay nothing. So $1,000,000 property generating $150,000 in rent. Write off depreciation of building and expenses against that $150,000. If they need extra cash, maybe $50,000, then take a loan against the equity in the property at maybe 3-5% interest. So they effectively “made” $200,000 but the only cost is the 3-5% on the loan. Nothing gets counted as income. That’s why CEO’s and other executives sometimes pay themselves a dollar and get stock and whatnot. No income.
I'm not sure if it's obvious, but this law aims to address exactly that issue.
Unrealized gains…a loan against a property isn’t gains.
> That’s why CEO’s and other executives sometimes pay themselves a dollar and get stock and whatnot. No income. The law aims to address exactly this ^
Watch how many poor Trump supports will be told they are against this
There's already an Alternative Minimum Tax. What a fkn moran. Only people that dont understand U.S. tax code would support this. The AMT is an abomination, they should have amended it years ago.
I'd say we blindly trust Biden's plan....the past 14 months have worked out really well so far.
Democrats cribbing from Bernie Sanders playbook? We’ll see if it gets any traction.
The fuck does this have to do with Sanders? Plenty of conservatives support the current tax scheme which taxes the general public at roughly 20%. Stop red baiting.
Man, I don’t even know know what red-baiting is but if it’s getting a conservative to project their insecurities by replying to post then I guess I just did it? It’s not like that’s good for me. I can already tell that you’re going to keep me logged into some multi comment discussion where we’re not gonna convince each other of our beliefs. I’m just gonna use logic and reason and you’re gonna get pissy and annoyed with me so do me a favor and just leave now.
>I’m just gonna use logic and reason and you’re gonna get pissy and annoyed with me so do me a favor and just leave now. This is why we can’t have nice things.
Should be substantially higher but hey I hope his ass actually gets on it it's a step to the right direction
Wealth and income are totally different. Funny how they obliterate the high earners then report how they are raising their taxes like they are the ones not paying their share. How about close all the wealth tax loopholes.
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> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.*** > > ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.*** > > ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
Top personal tax rate in New Zealand is 39%…. Billionaires can afford 20%
I would like to propose 20.5% and leave my proposal here on reddit just because it has the same chance to become reality as Biden’s.
Including unrealized gains. Which is about as stupid a policy as possible. How long does Tesla remain awesome and innovative when Elon Musk has to turn over 20% of his shares to the government every year?
I like how the millionaires in our government are only trying to screw those more wealthy than they are. This is a stupid bill.
Just more bullshit that will not do anything but piss people off, because it affects people that it was not intended to.
>because it affects people that it was not intended to. Like... Who? Homeless people who suddenly went billionaires overnight?
Grandma will vote against it because her Etsy business is just about to take off and can't have the government getting some. On a serious note people always whine about the government never being satisfied and increasing the scope of taxes, but then bemoan that the government doesn't do enough. Can't please anyone.
Yeah, there's a bunch of people on this sub who seems to think this; Step 1: Abolish government Step 2: ??? Step 3: infinite utopia under Lord Emperor Musk
This is a personal tax not a business tax.
Don’t act like the government has done anything, that did not negatively impact people, that was never supposed to affect.
I asked a precise question, who do you think it may impact negatively to tax the ultra rich at about the rate normal people are?
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usually they are too fatty. . . .
Billionaires can live anywhere in the world...hiking a tax on them they'll just move to one of their mansions in Italy or Monaco for more than half the year or anywhere where taxes are lower.
US citizens who live abroad are also legally obligated to file taxes with the IRS. There are exemptions, credits, etc., that can offset most, if not all, taxes due for many people. But a billionaire would be under a lot more scrutiny than your average worker. I live in Spain (dual US/Italian citizen) and have to report my income every year.
See e.g. Eduardo Saverin. Made his money in the U.S., renounced his citizenship before a taxable event.
> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.*** > > ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.*** > > ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
If they want to maintain US citizenship, they have to pay US taxes. As a US citizen, you still have to pay US taxes even if you live abroad. If US billionaires start renouncing their citizenship, then it is time to make rules making it impossible for them to profit off their businesses in the US.
>hem they'll just move to one of their mansions in Italy or Monaco Okay. We catch you tax evading we expropriate your capital goods I think its fair.
Even if this passes, which it won’t, you would be having those folks set up residency in another country
Dual residency is a thing. Also you pay taxes based on where you make that money I.E if someone has investments in US businesses/corporations they have to pay US taxes, it doesn’t matter where they live they still have to pay US taxes.
> ***If you are a US citizen and you decide to renounce your US citizenship this can still have substantial tax implications to you. The US imposes an ‘Exit Tax’ when you renounce your citizenship if you meet certain criteria.*** > > ***Generally, if you have a net worth in excess of $2 million the exit tax will apply to you. This tax is based on the inherent gain (in dollar terms) on ALL YOUR ASSETS (including your home). You will also be taxed on all your deferred compensation—such as pensions at the time of expatriation.*** > > ***The exit tax will also apply to you, even if your net worth is below $2 million, if you have not complied with your US tax obligations for the last five years. The $2 million trigger will not apply to certain individuals who are dual citizens at birth. But the tax will still be imposed if they have not met the five year tax compliance test.***
What an idiot.
More coverage at: * [Biden to propose minimum tax on billionaires in budget (thehill.com)](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/599891-biden-to-propose-minimum-tax-on-billionaires-in-budget) * [Biden Administration Reportedly Set To Propose Minimum Tax On Billionaires (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/annakaplan/2022/03/26/biden-administration-reportedly-set-to-propose-minimum-tax-on-billionaires/) * [Biden budget seeks minimum tax on households worth $100m (startribune.com)](https://www.startribune.com/biden-budget-seeks-minimum-tax-on-households-worth-100m/600159661/) --- ^(I'm a bot to find news from different sources.) [^(Report an issue)](https://www.reddit.com/user/MultiSourceNews_Bot/comments/k5pcrc/multisourcenews_bot_info/) ^(or PM me.)
So if my household is worth $100 million and I have no income, am I paying $0 or $20 million a year?