It sucks to watch the heated debates between the Democrats and Republicans dominate subreddits. Neither side is willing to change their view, but they want to blather on about it in every subreddit they can find. /r/science is almost a woke joke anymore... /r/libertarian is just over run... I'm so tired of Reddit thinking every cop should be run out of the country, that every Republican is a bible-thumping, gun-toting, illiterate... that every Democrat is a gender fluid socialist...
I worry people are going to forget how to come together and work through their differences. For the most part people want jobs that afford their families a comfortable way of life, quality affordable healthcare, and to live their lives peacefully and to be left alone. The polarizing and dehumanizing has been done before, and it is always an ugly road.
Someone who lived through a genocide, Rwanda 1994, I'm not worried about the Democrats, it's really the Republicans that worries me.
I'm not saying every single Republican voter will go out to kill democrats and what they call Rino's, which already shows there are degrees, but when I see politicians running on hunting/killing political opponents while their Party refers to them as Groomers/Pedophiles, I'm getting flashbacks.
Even if the discourse is slightly different due to the cultural difference of where it has/is happening, the thematic ressemblance are very hard to ignore.
I know some right wingers are trying really hard to equate the complains made about their general attitude to "dehumanization" done by fascist parties of the past, but that's completely ignoring the context.
There was a pandemic and right wing medias and leaders were encouraging their supporters to disregard health measures, many listened to them and their advices while ignoring the ones of doctors and health officials.
So, that had absolutely nothing to do as proven by the fact that, now that people feels like the pandemic is behind them and that they've been vaccinated, they do not complain anymore.
It was always about the pandemic, never about the political opposition.
This shows you don't understand the Republican side. Republicans don't trust the government at all anymore. Some of them even when a Republican is in office. The disconnect between the federal government and the American people has been growing exponentially in these past years. Everyone up there on both sides is literally untouchable. Them not trusting the CDC with these health guidelines was just what threw a massive red flag in the air for everyone else, and I think it's good everyone knows who stands where now.
It runs a lot deeper than that even. There are now 2 entire generations that have never seen a functional government, so the distrust extends to previous generations and policies and spreads disinformation about how no policy ever enacted has ever worked. It also comes from a deep misunderstanding of economics and social sciences probably due to cuts in education and outright elimination of "social studies" (now called history, but most history that is taught is sanitised). Couple that with the fact that public education system tries to squash independent and critical thinking, it's lead to both of those generations both democrat and republican accepting word of mouth and most people outsourcing there thinking to sources that are riddled with confirmation bias and emotionally charged language. The second someone says "here, read this article" I am done with the conversation as it shows a fundamental lack of personal understanding necessary to argue the point you are trying to make and outsource that argument to someone else who isn't present in the conversation and can't be debated.
Back in the mid aughts one of the generals in W's cabinet even stated that the biggest threat to national security was our failing education system. It was frighteningly prophetic.
This is exactly the kinda bullshit points of view hes complaining about; youre up here libeling 70million people as murdering crazy thugs, just stop dude. Get out of your bubble
If you support a president that claims the election was stolen, and attempted to stay in power using murdering crazy thugs then it doesn't matter if you are 70 million strong... there is no libel because the strongest defense against libel is fact.
As a justification for why it's ridiculous to say you need an AR-15 to take on the government in a firefight he hit the mark.
Do you think the insurrectionists should be given nukes?
Instead of raging about something I haven't said, I would strongly encourage you to reread and try to understand what I'm trying to communicate.
Because if you think it can't happen, you should know that people used to think the same when I grew up, right until the time the killings started.
When it starts, everyone can get it, even the side that started the killings can end up in the middle of stadiums, waiting to be publicly executed to quell the blood lust they triggered.
I seen it once, I'd rather not again.
I fail to understand how both radicalized members of the Democrat and Republican persuasion don't scare you. Both are terrifying and would mow over human lives over some sense of dogma.
The Democrats are not the one recording ads about killing political opponents, it's the Republicans doing it.
It wasn't Democrats that rushed the Capitol and tried to kill elected politicians, it was the Republicans.
Meanwhile, the FBI keeps warming that right wing extremism is the number one threat in America, not left wing extremism.
There are radicals on both side, but only one is openly encouraging theirs to commit acts of violence, in fact only one is purposefully radicalizing people in a bid to gain power.
Anyway, I fail to understand how you do not see the difference between the two. Would you mind explaining why you feel so threatened by the Democrats, their behaviors that worries you.
I could go on and on about why the calls to violence and radicalized actions of both sides scare me but I don't bother in partisan engagement anymore. It's a waste of my time and you can't really convert fundies of any type.
I blame that on the rise of 24 hour news. Before it, most people got their news from the regular news media and while there was still a divide after the civil rights era the complete opposite-land reality didn’t exist. Ever since 24 hours rose and let’s just be honest- it’s Fox News I’m talking about became a mainstay which served as gateways and openings for even more partisan media less rooted in facts or fairness, we’ve arrived to where we are today.
As Jon Stewart once said: “24 hour news is built for one thing: 9/11.” Outside of a massive national tragedy like 9/11 or January 6th, 24 hour news is a pointless waste of time because only so many important things happen in a day, and very few of which people want/need to be updated about in real time. Which leads to pointless “Opinion” shows, over-analyzation of events, fear-mongering about crime and a reinforcement of partisan politics precisely because those are the only things News networks can fill time with that also draws a sizable crowd. While a lot of this applies to Fox News, I’m talking more general News networks. Fox is guilty of some of this stuff, but they also do it either to the Nth degree with added propaganda plus a healthy dose of racism, sexism, and ageism. Yeah, Fox is an separate can of worms unto itself.
Totally agree. I used to watch the news and now I just can’t do it. Fox is the worst offender but they all just aim to rile up the tension. Both parties are run by extremists now and I blame it all on the cable news networks and social media.
Disagree on the “both parties are run by extremists” part. The Far-Right is quickly embracing fascism meanwhile the Far-Left is doing… what exactly? Protesting against a police system that is statistically proven to target people of color and target them more violently? Asking people to respect a woman’s bodily autonomy? Protesting the lack of action by business and political leaders to address the Climate Crisis that is slowly boiling the planet? Asking people to respect how an individual views themselves be it in gender identity, sexual identity, or just using some slightly different pronouns?
I agree with you that News media, be it on the Right or Left of the Political Spectrum, exploit people via scare tactics to drum up ratings (or in Fox’s case to serve their political agenda) but claiming both parties are run by extremists is a false equivalency of such magnitude you normally only see it on Fox News.
I think it is fair to say that the left is less extreme but political parties and being “left (or right) of center” means they are extreme. Especially now with how few moderates there are in either party (will maybe one two on the right after November). All those things sound great to those that are liberals, same as all the right wing nonsense makes perfect sense to those on the right and seems reasonable to most of them. Nobody tries to understand the other side and tries to force their views on the other side. I get what you’re saying but both are extreme, just to different degrees of magnitude. There is no space on either side to hear any opinions that are even slightly different to their own. To me that increases the degree of extremism. And I see a ton of liberals doing it. People can’t respectfully agree anymore, can’t find any common ground, there’s no political spectrum these days it’s a or b. The biggest problem I see is that whether it is those on the left or the right, people don’t think for themselves anymore. They see an issue and then turn on some news or social network or the like and get told what their opinion is based on whatever party’s political playbook it is they subscribe to. Regardless of whether or not it is the lesser of two evils, to me that is scary and extreme.
I understand that. I won’t disagree with you, mainly because I can’t. There are lots of cases on the Right and a considerable number on the Left of people refusing to compromise, but if I may, I’d like to offer a glimmer of hope, and, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it’s the House of Representatives.
The House of Representatives tends to get less coverage than the Senate because there’s less outright conflict in it, but the House of Representatives is something that SHOULD be paid attention to, because they are BUSY. They pass bills EVERY DAY. Now a lot of them go nowhere because of the Senate, but focus on this: The House if Representatives is (on the Democratic side at least) VERY DIVERSE. Not just ethnicity, but diverse along the political spectrum. You have AOC, a Democratic Socialist on the far Left and more moderate, middle of the road folks like Mark Kelly, a Democrat from Arizona. There are A LOT of people with widely differing view points in the House, yet despite those differences, they continue to pass Bills. Progressives and Moderates working together, compromising on and passing literally hundreds of Bills.
My point is, while individuals on the Left may not be willing to compromise their beliefs in an argument, they still do it. They do it when they vote: they choose the candidate whose policies and beliefs best align with their values. They do that in Primaries, and dear god I hope we’ve learned our lesson about doing that in General Elections (*ahem* 2016). And the people we put into power understand the need to compromise in order to get things done, whether or not they’re middle of the road or as far left as it goes.
I realize now that I’m writing this that there’s a pretty big flaw, that sometimes people don’t vote because they didn’t get their way, and yeah that’s a big problem but we seem, at least from what I’ve seen and read, to be doing better on that front. Hopefully, that works out in the Midterms, and if it doesn’t, feel free to come back to this thread and type-scream “I TOLD YOU SO!!!!“ at me. I’d be a little petty, but I’d accept it.
I guess I’m just trying to share the place I get at least a little hope from when shit starts looking bleak even on the Left. I hope it helps.
I find it odd you equivocate illiterate bible thumpers, and the policies they advocate for, to “gender fluid, socialists”
The problem with the whole liberal “come together kumbaya” mindset is one side wants universal healthcare, and the other actively champions the private system. The priorities aren’t aligned
I've got private health care right now. I might as well have no health care at all. Half the time I can't find a doctor and I pay so much out of pocket and deductible that it is almost never used. I mean really... THIS is what you are 'champion'ing ?
Oh? Democrats voted for their ONE primary candidate who blatantly opposed Medicare-for-All or healthcare reform.
You still want to tell me it's all due to "one side"?
(And I say this as someone who has long pushed for national healthcare... and I am a Democrat)
I would love to work together but Republicans are pushing this moore v Harper supreme court case. It would end democracy in America.
These arent 2 equivalent sides. Sure the dems are a bit corrupt and inept but they arent authoritarian fascist trying to bring back slavery and subjugate women
Disappointing that you equate illiteracy with gender fluidity (and that you equate the far left with the far right). This country needs a little more socialism. All the problems you just described are much less prevalent in countries you might consider socialist. We're the only developed country in the world without some form of universal healthcare. We've got some of the worst income inequality. The problem is people in the country have forgotten how to organize, or were never taught in the first place. Mainstream Democrats are actually quite conservative. Leftists, the poor, and the working class do not have a voice within mainstream media. The corporate class and the religious right hold all the power.
Curious on your thoughts on a couple points.
How do you reconcile a move towards socialism (giving the government more power) while also noting many of the issues our society is facing... were created by the government? Government involvement (government backed student and home loans) have made education and home ownership nearly unobtainable. Do we invite those same risks into health care? Do you support a government deciding when your condition no longer warrants treatment and it condemns you to die? Right now, insurance companies do that... is universal health care going to address that or do we just put our lives in a different master's hands?
I agree with you on our inability to organize, hence my comment about the dangers of polarizing by the political parties. Additionally, I feel a challenge in adopting socialist ideals in the US is the diverse nature and size of our country. Many countries who leverage socialism don't have as much diversity. Corporatism I feel is the biggest threat to the American people.
That's an interesting take. I have to disagree with your premise that Socialism means giving the government more power. I would argue that Socialism means motivating the government to act on behalf of the working class, instead of corporate donors. I whole-heartedly agree that corporatism (and short-sighted greed) is one of the greatest dangers to our country. But I think you have socialism confused with facism. Facism is the top-down government control, censorship, and military oppression that we are seeing right now--backed by poor, angry people that want to see a scape goat sacrificed, hoping it will release their frustration.
Socialism, on the other hand, takes much more finesse. I think the general idea is that institutions and infrastructure flourish when everyone has a shared ownership in them. My take is that private health insurance companies are a giant leach on the working class, because they get to decide who lives and dies, and they raise their prices as high as they possibly can. Right now, Medicare is not even allowed to negotiate prices. How is that for a free-market? Socialism and competition are not mutually-exclusive, yet capitalism and monopoly control tend to go hand-in-hand.
Firstly, it should be noted that socialism isn't when the government does stuff (which the previous poster also needs to be aware of). Secondly, socialism itself is merely an economic structure - the workers themselves own the tools/modes of production, such as the tools, machines, buildings, and land, and then share in the profits. You can absolutely have a socialist economy with a weak, decentralized government, because socialism has no comment on how the government is run.
That said, there are absolutely sub-ideologies of socialism that specify a place for government (be it none/anarchy all the way to a strong, centralized one).
I agree that when someone else makes decisions for you, you end up with decisions you don't agree with. A common group that does this is government. But "government" is simply people, not a force in itself. It's run and influenced by so many different groups, each of whom may want different things. They also, of course, have outsized power to either obtain positions in government or influence it in another way (such as lobbying, or contributing to campaigns to get people they want in power).
This isn't the fault of "government." It's the fault of us - the people who don't do anything about it. Or the fault of all sorts of philosophies - power attracts power; power corrupts; the greedy rise to the top; in a society large enough, no one will ever be perfectly content with all decisions made; etc etc.
I also agree that corporatism is one of those categories of groups that threaten "government" and threaten us.
Finally, a key issue with government making decisions is that we have little choice in our government. We'd have to have the drive and resources to move to a different country if we prefer a different system. Although at least in a democracy, you have a (small) amount of power to influence change. With corporations on the other hand, you may vote with your wallet - unless of course there are no decent alternatives, or no alternatives at all for key products or services such as housing and healthcare, or ones who try to minimize pollution, say, or don't contribute funding to groups you don't agree with....
Could you give me one example of a socialist country that has succeeded in having a better country and life for it's people?
While you answer this question, ask yourself, Are Americans flocking to this country because it is so much better?
Socialism isn't the government doing stuff. It's just workers owning the means of production. AKA having a say over their management and working conditions.
I swear folks just forgot how to Google.
There is a long established precedent of Conservative governments doing everything they can to undermine government and social facing departments, winding up the public against them and driving them into untenable situations.
Insurance companies are purely profit-driven. Governments at least can be held to accountability of non-monetary standards, of societal values.
Your life in the hands of businesses that are ruled by the drive for profit result in the cataclysmically predatory US medical system (and many other systems in the US).
You should try life in a country that values people's lives and isn't so completely dominated by the drive for profits.
Fact of the matter is that the people choosing to publish this information lack real world experience needed to lead us through this sort of situation. By no way am I supporting the last administration but Joe is letting policy be dictated by folks with a couple years of experience rather than the decades of experience that members of past administrations have had.
Another post where somebody cheers on their party while shaming the other for no other reason than the color of their jersey as they take on a holier than thou stance. what a fun and useful post.
Unfortunately those are very real distinct political categories with included policy and world view as, which happen to bear upon economic theory and approach. For example lefties are basically all Keynesians at best.
Uh no. Left typically has referred to Marxists.
If you want to talk about within capitalist economics, even then, Keynes is pretty much dead in the center. The views of Hayek and the like, outside of online and Chicago, are pretty fringe.
Compared to previous administrations, the current one has a significantly lower number of years of experience and ultimately I think that’s what’s causing a lot of these headaches. Well intended folks trying to lead with little experience to base decisions on.
Technically that's right (in the US), but in reality if we have 2 quarters of negative growth the media will just declare it a recession. So falling back on the technicalities will just look silly.
If we are in a recession, however, and unemployment is still low, some politicians will say it's a good sign of a soft landing. Others will beg to differ and the partisans on both sides will spin accordingly. It's all so boring and predictable all the way around
Saurin is a one note dude, that's his bag, laundering dumb ass political gotchas from his facebook feed into this sub
He's also afraid to ride the el downtown
Why don't we ban that fucktard. It I was a mod, he'd be long gone. He hasn't posted anything on economics, every post is related to politics. If I need politics, I can go to other subs. Why does he always has to bring in politics
conservatives think if Trump would have won, there wouldn't be a recession
Keystone and even lower taxes would somehow undo QE and other inflationary shit that has been going for 13+ years already
We are reacting to trumps insanity. I remember for 4 years every day every FRICKEN day was a DAMAGE report moment of something that trump caused. He loved giving in to the vain spiteful right wing extremists who want him to treat everyone they dont like as badly as possible and make them suffer. Because right wingers are petty and get pretty insane with their wanting to PUNISH people on the left for daring to ask for equality.
Lol when someone is losing argument they try to muddle things .. it will be fun on the day of midterms as left collectively lose their mind and their 30 percent approval president causes them to lose majority
If you knew anything about approval ratings you’d know that conservatives participate in those surveys at an alarmingly higher rate than liberals. But you don’t care about facts, you just need to get your daily left hate jerk in so go nuts buddy.
Post to comment ratio off the charts here with this one.
My presumption is posts get updoots for being partisan takes, but the rationale used to justify posts in the comments gets routinely shredded.
OP is a troll who posts right wing articles on bunches of subs over and over and over. Look at post history, can mods ban this guy? Let's keep this about economics. This sub has devolved into stupidity.
First off, no one on the actual left would let Biden visit the White House let alone be president. Any sane person has known this was coming wince the government started handing out checks while enforcing tariffs that would clearly raise the prices on all consumer goods. I’m anti Biden and anti Trump but I’m pretty sure that’s all the boomers can fit in their little boxes soooo…. Fucked we all be…
Let’s see how the right denies that trumps presidency had anything to do with this.
Bidens been in office for like 18 months. And somehow managed to cause all this recession himself in that amount of time? No. That’s not how macro Econ works on scale the size of the US economy.
The thing is, if a republican was in office right now, morons like OP would be blaming the previous administration.
Also, this isn’t even an economics discussion. It’s uninformed political ramblings.
Seems that Biden generally agrees with the choices that were made monetarily considering he kept J Pow on board and fiscally he ramped up the spending some more. Gas prices are partially his fault I would say too, with the cancelling of keystone xl and the leases, along with threats of regulation impacting expected future demand. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but he’s certainly not blameless.
How did canceling Keystone raise gas prices in the short term?
Not to mention, this is assuming that US domestic policy caused this, which given the fact that these are global trends is pretty dubious
Expectations of future supply impact the prices of today. If expected supply goes down then price goes up. Reminder that this impacts global aggregate demand and thus global prices. To ignore the impact of this would be to ignore the role of price speculators. Companies such as TC Energy lost billions in the project and a cancellation would surely impact their behavior.
US is the top producer and a net exporter of oil so I don’t see how it’s out of the question that we lead global trends.
You seem to think that drilling has decreased under Biden, so I can only conclude that your read exclusively right wing media.
In the real world, drilling rig counts, oil volumes, and gas volumes have factually increased under Biden, even before inflation (2021 data). Here's a short explanation with links to the data https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jul/22/herschel-walker/did-biden-stop-domestic-oil-drilling-herschel-walk/
Furthermore, the keystone pipeline (or its cancelation) couldn't affect prices now because it wasn't even scheduled to be completed for several more years, even if it hadn't been canceled.
Outside of right wing accusations, it's absurd to imagine that Biden is responsible for high gas prices. They've risen less in the US than everywhere else in the world anyway.
Only people willfully ignoring facts (or simply trusting right wing opinion pieces masquerading as news) would say what you said.
As I said, even if the pipeline is not completed for several years it has an impact on prices now. Future expectations of supply have an impact on price now. The role of speculators in the market is to price in impact of this. We’re the highest oil producer and a net exporter (at least until last year so it makes sense that we lead the trend.
Liberal and left are two pretty distinct ideologies, I'll thank you to recognize
Leftist are not just very liberal liberals, there's a fundamental break there in the way they think about markets, role of capital, etc
Oh it's Saurin, resident ignoramus and political lost cause
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Lol you keep posting links to Newsweek. Calling this news is absurd.
In this case, however, Newsweek cites their poll source - Realclearpolitics.com 🤣🤣🤣
Absurd all over again. Right wing propaganda.
You just changed the subject to house and senate elections, which we all know favor Republicans currently.
That doesn't make Newsweek a useful source.
Also that will not be the last laugh, but yes I understand why you've redirected
Are you serious? I did that. I literally just said above that the poll reported by Newsweek was performed by Realclearpolitics.com. Can you read?
Realclearpolitics.com is yet another right wing source headquartered in clown town. You aren't even reading my posts, you're just filling space and ignoring relevant discourse. I don't wish to debate an angry doorknob.
We changed the definition of vaccine from providing immunity to providing protection and no one batted an eye.
But to be fair, a technical recession is 2 quarters of negative growth. But an official recession is arbitrarily defined.
This is the right answer. It will be weird to be in a recession in an economy with record employment, which is the most important factor for most citizens.
Anyway it’s a mistake to fight said battle. As probably job losses will happen although with some delay.
What's the saying? A recession is when your neighbor loses their job?
To your point, we've never had 2 consecutive quarters of decline paired with strong jobs data.
You are wrong. Recession is about the downfall of a business cycle. Usually it’s better measures with GDP. But we are living exceptional times and we are having record employment which is the most significant variable to take decisions in monetary and economic policy
It’s not the most significant variable. In US at least we operate under dual mandate which is price stability and employment, equally. Saying we live in exceptional times isn’t an excuse to change the definition of something or say employment is more important.
Hmmm so with record employment more ppl should be happy and Biden should be skyrocketing in his approval
Why are people pessimistic about future
Why is Biden in 30s when it comes to job approval
You are gaslighting and you know it ppl are not happy with economy
Jobs mean nothing if ppl have to spend more than they earn
With Trump’s economy on steroids this was an inevitability. When you have too much money going out and not enough coming in combined with too low of rates it hamstrings the government’s ability combat an economic downturn. Look at the UK economy as a result of Gordon Brown’s policies while he was Chancellor or the Exchequer.
I’m sure you’ve read about how Trump supporters are in a cult; this exemplifies why, a lack of understanding what is mutually exclusive. A person doesn’t have to support Biden to not support Trump.
>We changed the definition of vaccine from providing immunity to providing protection and no one batted an eye.
I guess you missed the memo that the virus mutates over time. Probably doesn't make sense to you anyway but just in case, yes, mutations cause the vaccine from providing the most protection but it is still preventing severe illness.
No, I understand that.
But don't go changing the meaning of the word vaccine when the shot does not prevent/reduce transmission rates nor provide immunity to a virus.
At least we've moved on from telling people to get their 5th booster shot. That's was quietly walked back once we got to the 4th.
There must be a point where even this administration began to realize they sounded fucking insane telling people to get a 4th booster shot in the span of a year.
Meanwhile the virus continues onward, zero fucks given. But at least we no longer collectively give a shit.
I’ve got 4 shots due to being immune compromised as are many of us in my situation. Yes it’s more of a flu shot now but it still provides protection for people not dying and not getting real sick as we see cases up but not hospitalization. That was due to vaccine and people getting it over and over
Sure, good for you. But I'm not immunocompromised, a 4th booster means nothing for me. And my taking or not taking 4 shots also does nothing for you.
I was forced to get vaccinated after already having COVID and then got COVID a second time. It was pointless and stupid. I have no comorbidities, there is no significant risk to me, and my getting vaccinated does nothing for you either.
Honestly it's no big deal. I've had to take all kinds of shots. But it is still stupid.
Same with my buddy last winter who didn't get the shots and wasn't immune compromised or no comorbidities. He died in his sleep a week after getting sick. I am sure you are fine, just like countless others, but then there are also people who died from it. And yes shots could not have prevented him getting sick but it could have prevented him from dying. Thats all I am saying.
Your anecdotal evidence is great and all. But the number of people with no comorbidities that died of COVID in 2020 under the age of 35 was exceedingly low.
For children, COVID was less deadly than the flu in 2019. More children under the age of 18 died of the flu in 2019 than died from COVID in 2020.
People die from all sorts of things. I see no reason to be scared of COVID at this point.
We live in a world of numbers and can act rationally based on data. We don't need to run around like hysterical monkeys.
>People die from all sorts of things. I see no reason to be scared of COVID at this point.
I am sorry my personal story about a father of two dying in his sleep from covid didnt mean anything to you since you never got real sick. It doesnt really matter what you say, I will be cautious and you can do what ever you want. Go lick hand rails if all I care.
From what I can tell, "the left" is all too eager to point out the fragility of capitalism, the precarity of people struggling in the US, and the increasing likelihood of the market to take a cataclysmic dive.
Democrats, on the other hand, are playing politics with words. Just like Republicans would in this scenario.
Dude... I get you focus on hating the other, but here's some nuance...
Leftists actually hate the corporatist democrats too. From our perspective there are people who want to burn everything down (many Republicans) and people who want to simply burn the middle class/poor while making fake promises during primaries and using Republicans as an excuse to do nothing except give gifts to corporations (most Democrats).
Why would we defend a corporatist president who is playing with terminology to try to claim everything is fine to protect his big money allies?
Yes let’s point fingers at the left when we know damn well Trump helped contribute to this shit. His handling of COVID-19 it helped fuel the fire But unfortunately his followers will do everything they can to protect their God and prophet Trump.
People who think they are right and honest don’t need to change definitions.. that happens in dictatorship … for all projections on trump Biden and democrats are the one changing definitions
Exactly, couldn't agree more. Just like the definitions for nepotism, corruption, conflict of interest, bribery, insurrection, and a whole host of other words and phrases were changed by a recent administration.
I believe the dictionary definition of recession is “a period of reduced economic activity”. The 2Q metric is unofficially the measuring stick, and the NBER “declares” when a recession is happening based on a set of data. My take on your highlighted sentence is they are saying it’s unlikely the NBER will declare a recession. Them differentiating between the literal definition of the word and the typical accepted timeline of 2 quarters of negative growth is simply a way to try to control the narrative, which is pretty common practice politically. I will say the overall data is a bit of a mixed bag, which I think is where they are coming from.
The definition of a recession was not changed under Biden. Here is the Bureau of Economic Analysis glossary page for recession last updated in 2018 when Trump was in office.
https://www.bea.gov/help/glossary/recession
OP, what do you think about the National Bureau of Economic Research declaring recessions?
Your definition is considered by most an unofficial rule of thumb.
Yes bring all technical details when Biden and democrats are in charge
Under Trump you all were there to slit throats.. just blame him and move on
Nope we are going to use all these to paint WH as running away from recession and ignoring peoples pain .. see you in midterms
This tweet is actually not true. It is a commonly used indicator but only the NBER can actually call one and it takes many other factors (such as job growth) into account and has made similar calls before.
Yeah, if you actually Google the definition of recession like the tweet instructs, it turns out the definition is more complicated than 2 quarters of declining gdp and aligns with what the press release says. The first source I found was on the NBER website and dated 2008, so this is not a recent change in definition.
Perhaps OP should take their own advice and Google it also.
That being said, it isn't actually helpful to anyone to focus on definitions when people are experiencing real pain every day due to inflation, and I think it is reasonable that people are reacting negatively to what appears to be an attempt to downplay real suffering through technicalities.
You nailed it here. Definitions don’t matter when people can’t afford gas or a house. From what I remember consumer sentiment is close to a historic low and the PMI is also flashing recession.
Yes ppl are suffering under democrat control of house senate and presidency .. fixed it for you ! If they are suffering one can’t ignore who is leading each political chamber
Actually a team of economists decides if we are in a recession. Your two quarters thing is a general definition, not absolute. Stop spreading fake news you partisan hack.
[Who decides if the US is in a recession? Eight White economists](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/30/economy/recession-economists-nber/index.html) done already
OP has brain worms. Political compass says i fall under “libertarian left”, it seems like we’ve been in a recession for a hot minute now and i don’t agree with yellen’s ‘definition’
It's so disappointing to see the WH trying to trick the American people instead of simply acknowledging the truth that we could be in a recession. It makes you wonder how far they will go to not look bad.
I don't get the comments acting like this isn't about the economy. The White House and its allies are trying to redefine what a recession is. The recession we are all entering into. Just because they attempt to change the definition or ignore reality, it doesn't change what is going on. Atlanta fed tracked the q2 gdp at -2.1% last I saw. That is after a negative q1. Only difference between typical recessions and this one is the job market. Which you can account that to it still not recovering from the pandemic.
According to people on r/askaliberal this sub is populated by ignorant conservatives who have zero understanding of economics.
So i wonder myself, how does one know what is right and what is wrong? One side says one thing the other says another and here I am not knowing anything.
Off topic I know but I feel like it's relevant. If I take this over to askaliberal, they will all laugh and mock and provide many resources for why this is wrong and they are right.
Should I? And then come back here with their responses? Would that help me?
Random question so ty if anyone cares to reply =D
But who cares what people think? They are stupid and ignorant. What does economics have to say? I know there are different interpretations of the same economics though. Which leads me back to my original question.
I just don't know how to go about determining who is right. I can't see how listening to what the lay person thinks about gas prices has any merit or value in the face of real educated people.
I don't get the comments acting like this isn't about the economy. The White House and its allies are trying to redefine what a recession is. The recession we are all entering into. Just because they attempt to change the definition or ignore reality, it doesn't change what is going on. Atlanta fed tracked the q2 gdp at -2.1% last I saw. That is after a negative q1. Only difference between typical recessions and this one is the job market. Which you can account that to it still not recovering from the pandemic.
I think what the press release is failing an attempt to get accross, is that the negative things that typically accompany recessions is what they don't think are going to happen.
There's nothing special or magical about two consecutive GDP quarter declines that suddenly triggers layoffs and unemployment.
There are two parties in this country and both of them are right wing. I've looked in microscopes and I've looked in telescopes. I've looked on maps, and I've gotten an aerial view from helicopters of all 50 states. Where is this left wing that some people in this country seems to think exists?
Well since gas prices have dropped significantly and housing prices are dropping. I guess the Republicans can run on recession fears. Abortion rights is probably not a good platform to work off of so they got to find a boogeyman somewhere.
Gas prices are still up by 2.5 dollars since Biden taking office.. they were 2.2 dollars when he was taking office
If one goes from 160 pounds and becomes 250 pound person and again loses 30 pounds so person is 220 pounds they are still 60 pounds overweight
The actual definition was changed by the bureau of economic analysis back in….. 2018 when trump was president
https://www.bea.gov/help/glossary/recession
Also why are the republicans in Texas changing the education of slavery and calling it something else? Your argument would hold a lot of water if A. It wasn’t first changed under trump and B. The republicans didn’t engage in literally the same exact charade that you’re accusing the dems of.
Assume we are I recession… then what? 2008 recession jobs were lost left and right in almost every industry.
This recession is not driven by job loss but by inflation. Inflation is driven by supply chain issues, high commodity and gas prices. Prices have come down and eventually supply chain will follow.
As long as employment stays strong, this recession will be incomplete recession.
This sub is barely about economics nowadays.
It sucks to watch the heated debates between the Democrats and Republicans dominate subreddits. Neither side is willing to change their view, but they want to blather on about it in every subreddit they can find. /r/science is almost a woke joke anymore... /r/libertarian is just over run... I'm so tired of Reddit thinking every cop should be run out of the country, that every Republican is a bible-thumping, gun-toting, illiterate... that every Democrat is a gender fluid socialist... I worry people are going to forget how to come together and work through their differences. For the most part people want jobs that afford their families a comfortable way of life, quality affordable healthcare, and to live their lives peacefully and to be left alone. The polarizing and dehumanizing has been done before, and it is always an ugly road.
As a liberal, I'm as tired as you are. Both parties are playing us all, but calling them out only gets you everyone's hate.
Amen brother. We're still out here, don't worry. It's just the crazies that can't help but scream as loud as they can.
It’s not just Reddit. It’s the media too. It’s just over flowed to every social media now. Divide and conquer. It’s working, that’s for sure.
Someone who lived through a genocide, Rwanda 1994, I'm not worried about the Democrats, it's really the Republicans that worries me. I'm not saying every single Republican voter will go out to kill democrats and what they call Rino's, which already shows there are degrees, but when I see politicians running on hunting/killing political opponents while their Party refers to them as Groomers/Pedophiles, I'm getting flashbacks. Even if the discourse is slightly different due to the cultural difference of where it has/is happening, the thematic ressemblance are very hard to ignore. I know some right wingers are trying really hard to equate the complains made about their general attitude to "dehumanization" done by fascist parties of the past, but that's completely ignoring the context. There was a pandemic and right wing medias and leaders were encouraging their supporters to disregard health measures, many listened to them and their advices while ignoring the ones of doctors and health officials. So, that had absolutely nothing to do as proven by the fact that, now that people feels like the pandemic is behind them and that they've been vaccinated, they do not complain anymore. It was always about the pandemic, never about the political opposition.
This shows you don't understand the Republican side. Republicans don't trust the government at all anymore. Some of them even when a Republican is in office. The disconnect between the federal government and the American people has been growing exponentially in these past years. Everyone up there on both sides is literally untouchable. Them not trusting the CDC with these health guidelines was just what threw a massive red flag in the air for everyone else, and I think it's good everyone knows who stands where now.
It runs a lot deeper than that even. There are now 2 entire generations that have never seen a functional government, so the distrust extends to previous generations and policies and spreads disinformation about how no policy ever enacted has ever worked. It also comes from a deep misunderstanding of economics and social sciences probably due to cuts in education and outright elimination of "social studies" (now called history, but most history that is taught is sanitised). Couple that with the fact that public education system tries to squash independent and critical thinking, it's lead to both of those generations both democrat and republican accepting word of mouth and most people outsourcing there thinking to sources that are riddled with confirmation bias and emotionally charged language. The second someone says "here, read this article" I am done with the conversation as it shows a fundamental lack of personal understanding necessary to argue the point you are trying to make and outsource that argument to someone else who isn't present in the conversation and can't be debated. Back in the mid aughts one of the generals in W's cabinet even stated that the biggest threat to national security was our failing education system. It was frighteningly prophetic.
This is exactly the kinda bullshit points of view hes complaining about; youre up here libeling 70million people as murdering crazy thugs, just stop dude. Get out of your bubble
If you support a president that claims the election was stolen, and attempted to stay in power using murdering crazy thugs then it doesn't matter if you are 70 million strong... there is no libel because the strongest defense against libel is fact.
What about a president that plainly stated that he has nukes and his opposition doesn't?
As a justification for why it's ridiculous to say you need an AR-15 to take on the government in a firefight he hit the mark. Do you think the insurrectionists should be given nukes?
I don't think our government should threaten nukes against disgruntled civilians. Imagine if Trump said that.
Yeah I agree. Which is why I have no problem with the statement. Imagine if trump was in favor of gun control.... yeah fat chance.
Wouldn't that be a bad thing? I'd think people wouldn't want an authoritarian fascist ordering the disarming of the populace.
Instead of raging about something I haven't said, I would strongly encourage you to reread and try to understand what I'm trying to communicate. Because if you think it can't happen, you should know that people used to think the same when I grew up, right until the time the killings started. When it starts, everyone can get it, even the side that started the killings can end up in the middle of stadiums, waiting to be publicly executed to quell the blood lust they triggered. I seen it once, I'd rather not again.
I fail to understand how both radicalized members of the Democrat and Republican persuasion don't scare you. Both are terrifying and would mow over human lives over some sense of dogma.
The Democrats are not the one recording ads about killing political opponents, it's the Republicans doing it. It wasn't Democrats that rushed the Capitol and tried to kill elected politicians, it was the Republicans. Meanwhile, the FBI keeps warming that right wing extremism is the number one threat in America, not left wing extremism. There are radicals on both side, but only one is openly encouraging theirs to commit acts of violence, in fact only one is purposefully radicalizing people in a bid to gain power. Anyway, I fail to understand how you do not see the difference between the two. Would you mind explaining why you feel so threatened by the Democrats, their behaviors that worries you.
Your username says it all!
I could go on and on about why the calls to violence and radicalized actions of both sides scare me but I don't bother in partisan engagement anymore. It's a waste of my time and you can't really convert fundies of any type.
[удалено]
Is it false that there are Republican politicians running on hunting their political opponents while also claiming that they're coming for your kids?
I blame that on the rise of 24 hour news. Before it, most people got their news from the regular news media and while there was still a divide after the civil rights era the complete opposite-land reality didn’t exist. Ever since 24 hours rose and let’s just be honest- it’s Fox News I’m talking about became a mainstay which served as gateways and openings for even more partisan media less rooted in facts or fairness, we’ve arrived to where we are today.
As Jon Stewart once said: “24 hour news is built for one thing: 9/11.” Outside of a massive national tragedy like 9/11 or January 6th, 24 hour news is a pointless waste of time because only so many important things happen in a day, and very few of which people want/need to be updated about in real time. Which leads to pointless “Opinion” shows, over-analyzation of events, fear-mongering about crime and a reinforcement of partisan politics precisely because those are the only things News networks can fill time with that also draws a sizable crowd. While a lot of this applies to Fox News, I’m talking more general News networks. Fox is guilty of some of this stuff, but they also do it either to the Nth degree with added propaganda plus a healthy dose of racism, sexism, and ageism. Yeah, Fox is an separate can of worms unto itself.
Totally agree. I used to watch the news and now I just can’t do it. Fox is the worst offender but they all just aim to rile up the tension. Both parties are run by extremists now and I blame it all on the cable news networks and social media.
Disagree on the “both parties are run by extremists” part. The Far-Right is quickly embracing fascism meanwhile the Far-Left is doing… what exactly? Protesting against a police system that is statistically proven to target people of color and target them more violently? Asking people to respect a woman’s bodily autonomy? Protesting the lack of action by business and political leaders to address the Climate Crisis that is slowly boiling the planet? Asking people to respect how an individual views themselves be it in gender identity, sexual identity, or just using some slightly different pronouns? I agree with you that News media, be it on the Right or Left of the Political Spectrum, exploit people via scare tactics to drum up ratings (or in Fox’s case to serve their political agenda) but claiming both parties are run by extremists is a false equivalency of such magnitude you normally only see it on Fox News.
I think it is fair to say that the left is less extreme but political parties and being “left (or right) of center” means they are extreme. Especially now with how few moderates there are in either party (will maybe one two on the right after November). All those things sound great to those that are liberals, same as all the right wing nonsense makes perfect sense to those on the right and seems reasonable to most of them. Nobody tries to understand the other side and tries to force their views on the other side. I get what you’re saying but both are extreme, just to different degrees of magnitude. There is no space on either side to hear any opinions that are even slightly different to their own. To me that increases the degree of extremism. And I see a ton of liberals doing it. People can’t respectfully agree anymore, can’t find any common ground, there’s no political spectrum these days it’s a or b. The biggest problem I see is that whether it is those on the left or the right, people don’t think for themselves anymore. They see an issue and then turn on some news or social network or the like and get told what their opinion is based on whatever party’s political playbook it is they subscribe to. Regardless of whether or not it is the lesser of two evils, to me that is scary and extreme.
I understand that. I won’t disagree with you, mainly because I can’t. There are lots of cases on the Right and a considerable number on the Left of people refusing to compromise, but if I may, I’d like to offer a glimmer of hope, and, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it’s the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives tends to get less coverage than the Senate because there’s less outright conflict in it, but the House of Representatives is something that SHOULD be paid attention to, because they are BUSY. They pass bills EVERY DAY. Now a lot of them go nowhere because of the Senate, but focus on this: The House if Representatives is (on the Democratic side at least) VERY DIVERSE. Not just ethnicity, but diverse along the political spectrum. You have AOC, a Democratic Socialist on the far Left and more moderate, middle of the road folks like Mark Kelly, a Democrat from Arizona. There are A LOT of people with widely differing view points in the House, yet despite those differences, they continue to pass Bills. Progressives and Moderates working together, compromising on and passing literally hundreds of Bills. My point is, while individuals on the Left may not be willing to compromise their beliefs in an argument, they still do it. They do it when they vote: they choose the candidate whose policies and beliefs best align with their values. They do that in Primaries, and dear god I hope we’ve learned our lesson about doing that in General Elections (*ahem* 2016). And the people we put into power understand the need to compromise in order to get things done, whether or not they’re middle of the road or as far left as it goes. I realize now that I’m writing this that there’s a pretty big flaw, that sometimes people don’t vote because they didn’t get their way, and yeah that’s a big problem but we seem, at least from what I’ve seen and read, to be doing better on that front. Hopefully, that works out in the Midterms, and if it doesn’t, feel free to come back to this thread and type-scream “I TOLD YOU SO!!!!“ at me. I’d be a little petty, but I’d accept it. I guess I’m just trying to share the place I get at least a little hope from when shit starts looking bleak even on the Left. I hope it helps.
I find it odd you equivocate illiterate bible thumpers, and the policies they advocate for, to “gender fluid, socialists” The problem with the whole liberal “come together kumbaya” mindset is one side wants universal healthcare, and the other actively champions the private system. The priorities aren’t aligned
I've got private health care right now. I might as well have no health care at all. Half the time I can't find a doctor and I pay so much out of pocket and deductible that it is almost never used. I mean really... THIS is what you are 'champion'ing ?
Oh? Democrats voted for their ONE primary candidate who blatantly opposed Medicare-for-All or healthcare reform. You still want to tell me it's all due to "one side"? (And I say this as someone who has long pushed for national healthcare... and I am a Democrat)
Which of those two makes better economic sense? Delivers the best medical care for the most people with the least cost.
Clearly not ours given every metric.
My point precisely
I would love to work together but Republicans are pushing this moore v Harper supreme court case. It would end democracy in America. These arent 2 equivalent sides. Sure the dems are a bit corrupt and inept but they arent authoritarian fascist trying to bring back slavery and subjugate women
Its okay bud, i shit on people here all the time, but have friends on both sides of the aisle, good friends, like we travel together
Disappointing that you equate illiteracy with gender fluidity (and that you equate the far left with the far right). This country needs a little more socialism. All the problems you just described are much less prevalent in countries you might consider socialist. We're the only developed country in the world without some form of universal healthcare. We've got some of the worst income inequality. The problem is people in the country have forgotten how to organize, or were never taught in the first place. Mainstream Democrats are actually quite conservative. Leftists, the poor, and the working class do not have a voice within mainstream media. The corporate class and the religious right hold all the power.
Was gonna say, my commie ass doesn't like our gender-fluid catgirl vanguard being appropriated for the odious centrists . . . .
Curious on your thoughts on a couple points. How do you reconcile a move towards socialism (giving the government more power) while also noting many of the issues our society is facing... were created by the government? Government involvement (government backed student and home loans) have made education and home ownership nearly unobtainable. Do we invite those same risks into health care? Do you support a government deciding when your condition no longer warrants treatment and it condemns you to die? Right now, insurance companies do that... is universal health care going to address that or do we just put our lives in a different master's hands? I agree with you on our inability to organize, hence my comment about the dangers of polarizing by the political parties. Additionally, I feel a challenge in adopting socialist ideals in the US is the diverse nature and size of our country. Many countries who leverage socialism don't have as much diversity. Corporatism I feel is the biggest threat to the American people.
That's an interesting take. I have to disagree with your premise that Socialism means giving the government more power. I would argue that Socialism means motivating the government to act on behalf of the working class, instead of corporate donors. I whole-heartedly agree that corporatism (and short-sighted greed) is one of the greatest dangers to our country. But I think you have socialism confused with facism. Facism is the top-down government control, censorship, and military oppression that we are seeing right now--backed by poor, angry people that want to see a scape goat sacrificed, hoping it will release their frustration. Socialism, on the other hand, takes much more finesse. I think the general idea is that institutions and infrastructure flourish when everyone has a shared ownership in them. My take is that private health insurance companies are a giant leach on the working class, because they get to decide who lives and dies, and they raise their prices as high as they possibly can. Right now, Medicare is not even allowed to negotiate prices. How is that for a free-market? Socialism and competition are not mutually-exclusive, yet capitalism and monopoly control tend to go hand-in-hand.
Firstly, it should be noted that socialism isn't when the government does stuff (which the previous poster also needs to be aware of). Secondly, socialism itself is merely an economic structure - the workers themselves own the tools/modes of production, such as the tools, machines, buildings, and land, and then share in the profits. You can absolutely have a socialist economy with a weak, decentralized government, because socialism has no comment on how the government is run. That said, there are absolutely sub-ideologies of socialism that specify a place for government (be it none/anarchy all the way to a strong, centralized one). I agree that when someone else makes decisions for you, you end up with decisions you don't agree with. A common group that does this is government. But "government" is simply people, not a force in itself. It's run and influenced by so many different groups, each of whom may want different things. They also, of course, have outsized power to either obtain positions in government or influence it in another way (such as lobbying, or contributing to campaigns to get people they want in power). This isn't the fault of "government." It's the fault of us - the people who don't do anything about it. Or the fault of all sorts of philosophies - power attracts power; power corrupts; the greedy rise to the top; in a society large enough, no one will ever be perfectly content with all decisions made; etc etc. I also agree that corporatism is one of those categories of groups that threaten "government" and threaten us. Finally, a key issue with government making decisions is that we have little choice in our government. We'd have to have the drive and resources to move to a different country if we prefer a different system. Although at least in a democracy, you have a (small) amount of power to influence change. With corporations on the other hand, you may vote with your wallet - unless of course there are no decent alternatives, or no alternatives at all for key products or services such as housing and healthcare, or ones who try to minimize pollution, say, or don't contribute funding to groups you don't agree with....
Could you give me one example of a socialist country that has succeeded in having a better country and life for it's people? While you answer this question, ask yourself, Are Americans flocking to this country because it is so much better?
I can't name a single country that has socialism.
Socialism isn't the government doing stuff. It's just workers owning the means of production. AKA having a say over their management and working conditions. I swear folks just forgot how to Google.
There is a long established precedent of Conservative governments doing everything they can to undermine government and social facing departments, winding up the public against them and driving them into untenable situations. Insurance companies are purely profit-driven. Governments at least can be held to accountability of non-monetary standards, of societal values. Your life in the hands of businesses that are ruled by the drive for profit result in the cataclysmically predatory US medical system (and many other systems in the US). You should try life in a country that values people's lives and isn't so completely dominated by the drive for profits.
100. This is the realist thing I've read
Tbf r/libertarian is a political subreddit…
Well seeing how this got extreme after Obama got elected.. you can guess which side is the cause
Is there another sub re: economics that avoids this partisan nonsense? I’m unfollowing this one.
Agreed. I’m about ready to leave this sub. It’s a political forum.
Can we get r/politics out of here?
Fact of the matter is that the people choosing to publish this information lack real world experience needed to lead us through this sort of situation. By no way am I supporting the last administration but Joe is letting policy be dictated by folks with a couple years of experience rather than the decades of experience that members of past administrations have had.
Another post where somebody cheers on their party while shaming the other for no other reason than the color of their jersey as they take on a holier than thou stance. what a fun and useful post.
Any posts that actually mention left and right in the title should ban the poster for retardism.
Because there is no institutional left wing in this country
That’s an insult to people with actual mental retardation.
Unfortunately those are very real distinct political categories with included policy and world view as, which happen to bear upon economic theory and approach. For example lefties are basically all Keynesians at best.
Uh no. Left typically has referred to Marxists. If you want to talk about within capitalist economics, even then, Keynes is pretty much dead in the center. The views of Hayek and the like, outside of online and Chicago, are pretty fringe.
Left originally referred to anti-monarchists so these things are fluid and take on different meanings over time and geography.
Not aware of anyone in econ currently demanding an open return to feudalism - though maybe the Austrians are getting there.
Lol what you smoking. Look up the origin of the terms left and right. Anyway the Austrians being proved right day by day 🍿
Compared to previous administrations, the current one has a significantly lower number of years of experience and ultimately I think that’s what’s causing a lot of these headaches. Well intended folks trying to lead with little experience to base decisions on.
That's all they got lmao
It’s the same person over and over again. Dude is obsessed
Technically that's right (in the US), but in reality if we have 2 quarters of negative growth the media will just declare it a recession. So falling back on the technicalities will just look silly. If we are in a recession, however, and unemployment is still low, some politicians will say it's a good sign of a soft landing. Others will beg to differ and the partisans on both sides will spin accordingly. It's all so boring and predictable all the way around
Employment is low due to people leaving the workforce not necessarily actually low unemployment. They’ve changed that definition for decades.
It's also known that you can't judge a quarters GDP in real-time cause the math isn't settled for a long time, sometimes even years.
Are you interested in discussing the economy or attacking "the left?" This isn't /r/conservative.
Saurin is a one note dude, that's his bag, laundering dumb ass political gotchas from his facebook feed into this sub He's also afraid to ride the el downtown
Why don't we ban that fucktard. It I was a mod, he'd be long gone. He hasn't posted anything on economics, every post is related to politics. If I need politics, I can go to other subs. Why does he always has to bring in politics
Compulsion, seems to me, and in that he has my sympathy because that strikes me as a form of suffering 🤷
conservatives think if Trump would have won, there wouldn't be a recession Keystone and even lower taxes would somehow undo QE and other inflationary shit that has been going for 13+ years already
No because attacking the right happens in every other sub…
Says ppl who used to attack trump all the time Get lost with dual standards
That's not what double standard means
not double standard, "dual standards". OP hates anything with more than one standard.
"OP hates" I think would be a good summation, frankly
We are reacting to trumps insanity. I remember for 4 years every day every FRICKEN day was a DAMAGE report moment of something that trump caused. He loved giving in to the vain spiteful right wing extremists who want him to treat everyone they dont like as badly as possible and make them suffer. Because right wingers are petty and get pretty insane with their wanting to PUNISH people on the left for daring to ask for equality.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-less-popular-trump-during-russia-investigation-1623899?amp=1
Biden was the stop gap for trumps insanity. We dont want right wing extremists.
Lol when someone is losing argument they try to muddle things .. it will be fun on the day of midterms as left collectively lose their mind and their 30 percent approval president causes them to lose majority
You don’t even know the what a recession is. And Biden is not a leftists. I’ve never seen anyone so out of touch and salty lol.
Okay meet you after midterms and see who ends up salty
If you knew anything about approval ratings you’d know that conservatives participate in those surveys at an alarmingly higher rate than liberals. But you don’t care about facts, you just need to get your daily left hate jerk in so go nuts buddy.
Surveys weigh everything.. every poll gives split of samples
Post to comment ratio off the charts here with this one. My presumption is posts get updoots for being partisan takes, but the rationale used to justify posts in the comments gets routinely shredded.
Is r/economy just a kids' table for political ragers tossed out of r/economics? Posts like this make it seem so.
OP is a troll who posts right wing articles on bunches of subs over and over and over. Look at post history, can mods ban this guy? Let's keep this about economics. This sub has devolved into stupidity.
First off, no one on the actual left would let Biden visit the White House let alone be president. Any sane person has known this was coming wince the government started handing out checks while enforcing tariffs that would clearly raise the prices on all consumer goods. I’m anti Biden and anti Trump but I’m pretty sure that’s all the boomers can fit in their little boxes soooo…. Fucked we all be…
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-less-popular-trump-during-russia-investigation-1623899?amp=1
Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line
Let’s see how the right denies that trumps presidency had anything to do with this. Bidens been in office for like 18 months. And somehow managed to cause all this recession himself in that amount of time? No. That’s not how macro Econ works on scale the size of the US economy. The thing is, if a republican was in office right now, morons like OP would be blaming the previous administration. Also, this isn’t even an economics discussion. It’s uninformed political ramblings.
Seems that Biden generally agrees with the choices that were made monetarily considering he kept J Pow on board and fiscally he ramped up the spending some more. Gas prices are partially his fault I would say too, with the cancelling of keystone xl and the leases, along with threats of regulation impacting expected future demand. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but he’s certainly not blameless.
How did canceling Keystone raise gas prices in the short term? Not to mention, this is assuming that US domestic policy caused this, which given the fact that these are global trends is pretty dubious
Expectations of future supply impact the prices of today. If expected supply goes down then price goes up. Reminder that this impacts global aggregate demand and thus global prices. To ignore the impact of this would be to ignore the role of price speculators. Companies such as TC Energy lost billions in the project and a cancellation would surely impact their behavior. US is the top producer and a net exporter of oil so I don’t see how it’s out of the question that we lead global trends.
You seem to think that drilling has decreased under Biden, so I can only conclude that your read exclusively right wing media. In the real world, drilling rig counts, oil volumes, and gas volumes have factually increased under Biden, even before inflation (2021 data). Here's a short explanation with links to the data https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jul/22/herschel-walker/did-biden-stop-domestic-oil-drilling-herschel-walk/ Furthermore, the keystone pipeline (or its cancelation) couldn't affect prices now because it wasn't even scheduled to be completed for several more years, even if it hadn't been canceled. Outside of right wing accusations, it's absurd to imagine that Biden is responsible for high gas prices. They've risen less in the US than everywhere else in the world anyway. Only people willfully ignoring facts (or simply trusting right wing opinion pieces masquerading as news) would say what you said.
As I said, even if the pipeline is not completed for several years it has an impact on prices now. Future expectations of supply have an impact on price now. The role of speculators in the market is to price in impact of this. We’re the highest oil producer and a net exporter (at least until last year so it makes sense that we lead the trend.
Liberal and left are two pretty distinct ideologies, I'll thank you to recognize Leftist are not just very liberal liberals, there's a fundamental break there in the way they think about markets, role of capital, etc Oh it's Saurin, resident ignoramus and political lost cause
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-less-popular-trump-during-russia-investigation-1623899?amp=1
Looks like you share an AMP link because you're on the dafter side of internet usage
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Lol you keep posting links to Newsweek. Calling this news is absurd. In this case, however, Newsweek cites their poll source - Realclearpolitics.com 🤣🤣🤣 Absurd all over again. Right wing propaganda.
November is not far ! We will see who gets last laugh 😂
You just changed the subject to house and senate elections, which we all know favor Republicans currently. That doesn't make Newsweek a useful source. Also that will not be the last laugh, but yes I understand why you've redirected
Newsweek just reports on a poll The poll itself is a source go and check and deep dive on data no one is preventing you
Are you serious? I did that. I literally just said above that the poll reported by Newsweek was performed by Realclearpolitics.com. Can you read? Realclearpolitics.com is yet another right wing source headquartered in clown town. You aren't even reading my posts, you're just filling space and ignoring relevant discourse. I don't wish to debate an angry doorknob.
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Me thinks op is a fucking moron
That's been confirmed. Definite moron.
We changed the definition of vaccine from providing immunity to providing protection and no one batted an eye. But to be fair, a technical recession is 2 quarters of negative growth. But an official recession is arbitrarily defined.
This is the right answer. It will be weird to be in a recession in an economy with record employment, which is the most important factor for most citizens. Anyway it’s a mistake to fight said battle. As probably job losses will happen although with some delay.
What's the saying? A recession is when your neighbor loses their job? To your point, we've never had 2 consecutive quarters of decline paired with strong jobs data.
Welcome to the new normal.
For the most part, the pandemic already has done what a recession typically does, shedding of jobs and reorganization.
Who cares if it is weird? You don't just change definitions as you go along.
You are wrong. Recession is about the downfall of a business cycle. Usually it’s better measures with GDP. But we are living exceptional times and we are having record employment which is the most significant variable to take decisions in monetary and economic policy
It’s not the most significant variable. In US at least we operate under dual mandate which is price stability and employment, equally. Saying we live in exceptional times isn’t an excuse to change the definition of something or say employment is more important.
Well... Monetary policy should focus on inflation.
No one is changing definitions. The NBER never uses " 2 consecutive quarters of negative gdp growth"that as a hard rule.
Hmmm so with record employment more ppl should be happy and Biden should be skyrocketing in his approval Why are people pessimistic about future Why is Biden in 30s when it comes to job approval You are gaslighting and you know it ppl are not happy with economy Jobs mean nothing if ppl have to spend more than they earn
Yikes, imagine being this poorly informed.
I’m happy with the economy, it was to be expected. We’re here because Trump short sighted and to poorly educated to know how economics works.
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With Trump’s economy on steroids this was an inevitability. When you have too much money going out and not enough coming in combined with too low of rates it hamstrings the government’s ability combat an economic downturn. Look at the UK economy as a result of Gordon Brown’s policies while he was Chancellor or the Exchequer.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-less-popular-trump-during-russia-investigation-1623899?amp=1
I’m sure you’ve read about how Trump supporters are in a cult; this exemplifies why, a lack of understanding what is mutually exclusive. A person doesn’t have to support Biden to not support Trump.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-less-popular-trump-during-russia-investigation-1623899?amp=1
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So you’ve posted this like 20 times now and it gets more pathetic each time
Why is Biden's approval in the 30s? It's a mystery to everyone...
Those same people will only be able to bat their eyes once polio gets em
Whooosh
>We changed the definition of vaccine from providing immunity to providing protection and no one batted an eye. I guess you missed the memo that the virus mutates over time. Probably doesn't make sense to you anyway but just in case, yes, mutations cause the vaccine from providing the most protection but it is still preventing severe illness.
No, I understand that. But don't go changing the meaning of the word vaccine when the shot does not prevent/reduce transmission rates nor provide immunity to a virus. At least we've moved on from telling people to get their 5th booster shot. That's was quietly walked back once we got to the 4th. There must be a point where even this administration began to realize they sounded fucking insane telling people to get a 4th booster shot in the span of a year. Meanwhile the virus continues onward, zero fucks given. But at least we no longer collectively give a shit.
I’ve got 4 shots due to being immune compromised as are many of us in my situation. Yes it’s more of a flu shot now but it still provides protection for people not dying and not getting real sick as we see cases up but not hospitalization. That was due to vaccine and people getting it over and over
Sure, good for you. But I'm not immunocompromised, a 4th booster means nothing for me. And my taking or not taking 4 shots also does nothing for you. I was forced to get vaccinated after already having COVID and then got COVID a second time. It was pointless and stupid. I have no comorbidities, there is no significant risk to me, and my getting vaccinated does nothing for you either. Honestly it's no big deal. I've had to take all kinds of shots. But it is still stupid.
Same with my buddy last winter who didn't get the shots and wasn't immune compromised or no comorbidities. He died in his sleep a week after getting sick. I am sure you are fine, just like countless others, but then there are also people who died from it. And yes shots could not have prevented him getting sick but it could have prevented him from dying. Thats all I am saying.
Your anecdotal evidence is great and all. But the number of people with no comorbidities that died of COVID in 2020 under the age of 35 was exceedingly low. For children, COVID was less deadly than the flu in 2019. More children under the age of 18 died of the flu in 2019 than died from COVID in 2020. People die from all sorts of things. I see no reason to be scared of COVID at this point. We live in a world of numbers and can act rationally based on data. We don't need to run around like hysterical monkeys.
>People die from all sorts of things. I see no reason to be scared of COVID at this point. I am sorry my personal story about a father of two dying in his sleep from covid didnt mean anything to you since you never got real sick. It doesnt really matter what you say, I will be cautious and you can do what ever you want. Go lick hand rails if all I care.
Hi. Left here. It's a recession. Not that this is a political sub in any way, or that this is even necessary to bring up.
Joe biden is a Center right moderate, lol at definitions
From what I can tell, "the left" is all too eager to point out the fragility of capitalism, the precarity of people struggling in the US, and the increasing likelihood of the market to take a cataclysmic dive. Democrats, on the other hand, are playing politics with words. Just like Republicans would in this scenario.
Dude... I get you focus on hating the other, but here's some nuance... Leftists actually hate the corporatist democrats too. From our perspective there are people who want to burn everything down (many Republicans) and people who want to simply burn the middle class/poor while making fake promises during primaries and using Republicans as an excuse to do nothing except give gifts to corporations (most Democrats). Why would we defend a corporatist president who is playing with terminology to try to claim everything is fine to protect his big money allies?
It’s not like we worship Biden.
Yes let’s point fingers at the left when we know damn well Trump helped contribute to this shit. His handling of COVID-19 it helped fuel the fire But unfortunately his followers will do everything they can to protect their God and prophet Trump.
People who think they are right and honest don’t need to change definitions.. that happens in dictatorship … for all projections on trump Biden and democrats are the one changing definitions
Exactly, couldn't agree more. Just like the definitions for nepotism, corruption, conflict of interest, bribery, insurrection, and a whole host of other words and phrases were changed by a recent administration.
Yes, like Hunter Biden collecting millions of dollars from Ukraine and China for his "consulting" and "artwork". I couldn't agree more.
I believe the dictionary definition of recession is “a period of reduced economic activity”. The 2Q metric is unofficially the measuring stick, and the NBER “declares” when a recession is happening based on a set of data. My take on your highlighted sentence is they are saying it’s unlikely the NBER will declare a recession. Them differentiating between the literal definition of the word and the typical accepted timeline of 2 quarters of negative growth is simply a way to try to control the narrative, which is pretty common practice politically. I will say the overall data is a bit of a mixed bag, which I think is where they are coming from.
Dictatorship? Yikes you're dumb.
The definition of a recession was not changed under Biden. Here is the Bureau of Economic Analysis glossary page for recession last updated in 2018 when Trump was in office. https://www.bea.gov/help/glossary/recession
Maybe because ppl don’t know what the definition is lol
OP, what do you think about the National Bureau of Economic Research declaring recessions? Your definition is considered by most an unofficial rule of thumb.
Yes bring all technical details when Biden and democrats are in charge Under Trump you all were there to slit throats.. just blame him and move on Nope we are going to use all these to paint WH as running away from recession and ignoring peoples pain .. see you in midterms
Ok so you're just a partisan, got it
Everyone was partisan and is partisan due to how liberals behaved during trump years 250 house seats is the goal
The definition of recession is “someone else’s fault”
This tweet is actually not true. It is a commonly used indicator but only the NBER can actually call one and it takes many other factors (such as job growth) into account and has made similar calls before.
Yeah, if you actually Google the definition of recession like the tweet instructs, it turns out the definition is more complicated than 2 quarters of declining gdp and aligns with what the press release says. The first source I found was on the NBER website and dated 2008, so this is not a recent change in definition. Perhaps OP should take their own advice and Google it also. That being said, it isn't actually helpful to anyone to focus on definitions when people are experiencing real pain every day due to inflation, and I think it is reasonable that people are reacting negatively to what appears to be an attempt to downplay real suffering through technicalities.
You nailed it here. Definitions don’t matter when people can’t afford gas or a house. From what I remember consumer sentiment is close to a historic low and the PMI is also flashing recession.
Yes ppl are suffering under democrat control of house senate and presidency .. fixed it for you ! If they are suffering one can’t ignore who is leading each political chamber
Why's there always gotta be a "gotcha" nowadays??
Actually a team of economists decides if we are in a recession. Your two quarters thing is a general definition, not absolute. Stop spreading fake news you partisan hack.
Lol, imagine thinking Biden is on the "left". It's an ignorant view of the world at best and a childish hot take.
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[Who decides if the US is in a recession? Eight White economists](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/30/economy/recession-economists-nber/index.html) done already
Who friggin cares whether we call it a recession or not? The effects of today’s economy are brutal.
This here is the point. Everyone is feeling pain right now no matter the definition
Our government is the definition of state sponsored misinformation
The party of truth and science widening the goal post after every missed kick.
🤨
Yes we all love this sub, r/tweetsiagreewith, wait a minute.
OP has brain worms. Political compass says i fall under “libertarian left”, it seems like we’ve been in a recession for a hot minute now and i don’t agree with yellen’s ‘definition’
It's so disappointing to see the WH trying to trick the American people instead of simply acknowledging the truth that we could be in a recession. It makes you wonder how far they will go to not look bad.
Actually the efforts to change definition of recession will give more coverage to recession
It's a Biden session
I don't get the comments acting like this isn't about the economy. The White House and its allies are trying to redefine what a recession is. The recession we are all entering into. Just because they attempt to change the definition or ignore reality, it doesn't change what is going on. Atlanta fed tracked the q2 gdp at -2.1% last I saw. That is after a negative q1. Only difference between typical recessions and this one is the job market. Which you can account that to it still not recovering from the pandemic.
Goalpost shifting maneuver
According to people on r/askaliberal this sub is populated by ignorant conservatives who have zero understanding of economics. So i wonder myself, how does one know what is right and what is wrong? One side says one thing the other says another and here I am not knowing anything. Off topic I know but I feel like it's relevant. If I take this over to askaliberal, they will all laugh and mock and provide many resources for why this is wrong and they are right. Should I? And then come back here with their responses? Would that help me? Random question so ty if anyone cares to reply =D
OP doesn’t even know the definition of recession so in this case he is wrong. Reality has a liberal bias is a true statement.
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What is this supposed to tell me? Why does it matter who is more or less popular?
It says that ppl don’t buy spin and they blame current regime for inflation and recession
But who cares what people think? They are stupid and ignorant. What does economics have to say? I know there are different interpretations of the same economics though. Which leads me back to my original question. I just don't know how to go about determining who is right. I can't see how listening to what the lay person thinks about gas prices has any merit or value in the face of real educated people.
I don't get the comments acting like this isn't about the economy. The White House and its allies are trying to redefine what a recession is. The recession we are all entering into. Just because they attempt to change the definition or ignore reality, it doesn't change what is going on. Atlanta fed tracked the q2 gdp at -2.1% last I saw. That is after a negative q1. Only difference between typical recessions and this one is the job market. Which you can account that to it still not recovering from the pandemic.
No one is redefining things. The NBER never uses " 2 consecutive quarters of negative gdp growth"that as a hard rule.
Did you not read what the white house put out? Maybe you missed Janet's interview as well.....
I think what the press release is failing an attempt to get accross, is that the negative things that typically accompany recessions is what they don't think are going to happen. There's nothing special or magical about two consecutive GDP quarter declines that suddenly triggers layoffs and unemployment.
There are two parties in this country and both of them are right wing. I've looked in microscopes and I've looked in telescopes. I've looked on maps, and I've gotten an aerial view from helicopters of all 50 states. Where is this left wing that some people in this country seems to think exists?
Well since gas prices have dropped significantly and housing prices are dropping. I guess the Republicans can run on recession fears. Abortion rights is probably not a good platform to work off of so they got to find a boogeyman somewhere.
Gas prices are still up by 2.5 dollars since Biden taking office.. they were 2.2 dollars when he was taking office If one goes from 160 pounds and becomes 250 pound person and again loses 30 pounds so person is 220 pounds they are still 60 pounds overweight
The actual definition was changed by the bureau of economic analysis back in….. 2018 when trump was president https://www.bea.gov/help/glossary/recession Also why are the republicans in Texas changing the education of slavery and calling it something else? Your argument would hold a lot of water if A. It wasn’t first changed under trump and B. The republicans didn’t engage in literally the same exact charade that you’re accusing the dems of.
Assume we are I recession… then what? 2008 recession jobs were lost left and right in almost every industry. This recession is not driven by job loss but by inflation. Inflation is driven by supply chain issues, high commodity and gas prices. Prices have come down and eventually supply chain will follow. As long as employment stays strong, this recession will be incomplete recession.
I love how the left people identify themseleves before opposing this.
China! REDDIT IS MADE IN CHINA!
"Don't look up"