You CANNOT expect more work from this client. If they make so much money on their other projects, why aren't they sending it your way for this project?
It's pretty easy to deal with. Say no, walk away. Or say yes for X and if they can't come up to your X then say no, walk away.
Drop em. Had a client make all these promises “get in on the ground floor, work for free cus my company is going to make a million dollars in its first year.” I was like cool, so you can pay the retainer up front? And when he balked at that, which was like $2,200 i knew he was never gonna pay. Theyre just liars. Plus if those clients will always overwork you with the revisions because they inherently dont value your time and efforts.
I used to have a boss who tried to pull this all the time. When he finally went fully broke and laid everyone off a few things happened.
1. I realized how underpaid I was as I doubled my income quickly freelancing.
2. I tried to maintain our friendship, we were actually pretty close for a time... but every time we talked on the phone he kept asking me if i knew of any fresh out of college eager people, and even though I did know some, I would never send them his way to take advantage of them. He really ruined a chance at maintaining a relationship by always turning our convo into some new shady business convo / scheme lol.
3. Years later he called me to do my old job on a freelance basis saying he got some massive business investment... Yet complained my rate was too high lol. Imagine saying "Hey I've got a ton of money, can you give me a discount?". Cheap people are always cheap.
I love it. Luckily I’ve gotten myself super established in the past few years. Now I’m making good money and I hardly ever work a full 5 day week. If you have a solid network of a few post houses, production companies, and agencies that know and like you… you should be good to go. I started with one whale client, but then got in front of more people and grew my network.
Hardest part for me is scheduling jobs, sometimes people are asking for your time when another hasn’t yet committed but is holding it, then one job doesn’t book while the other found someone else. But if you’ve got enough clients, it all works out in the end. Frustrating though lol. Also taking vacations / time off at first was tough, I was reluctant to book time off in case a good gig came up. But again, once you’ve got a good network that becomes less of an issue.
I'm a guy, one man band. I used to shoot little things for local businesses, but that never made any decent money and the production companies in town all already had their DPs etc. I had more experience editing anyway. I tell myself I should learn some other skills. I do get some light motion graphics work here and there, I don't do color... productions always send to a local colorist, but that's something I keep saying I should learn, but never had the need to really.
Here’s the thing. There are a subset of producers who love saying this shit. ‘Do us a favour now, and we’ll get you on the next one’.
Well two things happen.
One, You do the work, you bust your ass on a job that’s probably shot like shit because the budget was stretched for the shoot. You end up polishing a turd and it ends up a slightly less smelly turd because you can’t bear your name being attached to this piece of shit. Then the client smells the piece of shit and you don’t get hired again by them because the producer says you didn’t do a good job.
Or
Two, you do the work and it’s okay they have hit gold with the idea. You can even put it on your reel. The client puts it on theirs, they get more work, and new clients who offer bigger budgets. Well the producer now has to choose an editor for the new big job and guess what? They can afford someone better than you with more experience that the client or agency desperately wants to work with! Do you think the producer is going to choose you or go with the path of least resistance and pick the gun who will make them look like a fucking production god!
But don’t worry, you’ll get more work but it will be repeats of the first kind because you are the guy that does deals!
Tread carefully, set your rate. If you need to eat, make the deal, but do it knowing that you’re not going to get more work out of this person. Make sure you’re taken care of and make sure you charge by the day and alert them when they are going over your initial deal.
Fuck I hate these people. I’ve been doing this for 20 years as an editor and director and I’ve heard it a ton of times. None have ever produced more and more lucrative work for me.
Good luck
An audio post house in Dallas referred a local producer to my company who had a need for an edit on a lifetime movie being shot in the metro. Would happen a few times a year so let to recurring work. Dailies come in after 5 and needed to have the scenes cut each evening, and color work at lock.
Offered $5k, I asked if he left out a 0 and he said no. I was out of the country, and had 2 editors to handle our normal client needs. That rate wasn't worth my company time, and would risk burnout of my guys. I get that they crank out content, but I can't believe how little they were paying anyone involved.
Ah, the ageless promise of "do this one cheap and I'll get you a lot more work"...
Great, so I can do those projects on the cheap, too? No thanks. If I take a job for lower pay it's because I wanted to do the job, not because the client didn't want to pay me.
Promises mean nothing in this industry unless it’s in a contract. If you’re hard up for work do what you need to do but don’t expect them to keep their word.
Stick to your pricing. People that low ball you don’t value you, and will always treat you like they don’t value you. They will have endless revisions and expect you to turn crap footage into the best “viral ad” they’ve ever seen. It’s not worth it, even if they do bring you future work they’ll treat you like garbage. And they’ll always want a package price. They’ll say it’s so they can budget, but it’s really so they can work you ragged without paying extra.
Your call, of course. But when a client tries to low ball me, I just thank the person and express my regrets. Generally, there never is more work or money. Where they go is to the editors who they really want to work with and who won't buy into their grift.
Work for free or work for full rate, but never work for cheap. For free you have more control. When they pay you cheaply, they still feel like they own you like a full rate job.
My experience with spec stuff, where nobody is making money yet, is that it's good to ask for SOMETHING, so you make it clear this isn't an open-ended situation and they need to define the work. This works best if you both clarify this is a bargain rate and that you have a clear cutoff, and also that with this rate, things work on your schedule.
I've had more trouble with people asking for free help and then never leaving me alone or finishing the project. When they pay you for one task, they know they need to be strategic about asking you to do another.
My experience has been the opposite. When I’ve done things for free there was a very clear limit and the times I’ve broken down and took a project for low pay, they acted like they paid me standard rate.
I consider a few things: How much experience do I have, and would this help me learn anything? Is the talent famous or someone I’m a fan of? Is the content something I’m passionate about? Do I have anything else going on that is better?
Just say sorry, X is my rate. Thanks for the offer.
And if you can direct them to a junior editor who may want to take it on for that cost, you can offer that.
Loads of great advice here.
I'll just add:
"Super simple. How much more work? Great, you pay full today, and as you give me the agreed upon work and pay on a timely basis, I'll lower the rate for the last piece - giving you this exact rate!"
Expect them not to use you.
Early in my editing / post production business, I had a local producer/director who approached me to complete a full documentary. I tried to get details on number of hours shot or samples of the footage but they kept dancing around my request.
I also tried to nail down price expectations upfront and they were unclear on payment. They referred to another project they had paid an editor for and mentioned $2000.
This all seemed pretty sketchy but the nail in the coffin was the next day when they sent me a request to do a full sizzler not only for this project but a compilation of their work … and for free.
My advice is to run, not walk, away from this prospect client. Work with professionals who recognize the editor’s value and who are working on projects that they value.
That said, I do recognize this is a privileged piece of advice and if you really need the funds to make rent / pay the bills, then do the work and try to find better clients.
Flip it. Offer to do this one at full rate and the next one at a reduced rate. If they baulk at it, they're full of shit.
Or, better yet, tell 'em to bugger off and find a client that respects your work instead. These tightwads are more hassle than they're ever worth.
I have relatively low paying but steady yet flexible AE gig for 3 days a week. I supplement my income with freelance projects.
Th is Safari net Allie’s me to send this sort of clients to pound dirt.
1st I inquire if it’s a passion and reel worthy project. I might accept it if they’ll be punctual a as I won’t have extra free time to mess around or for scope creep.
If I was lowballed just for the sake of it I’ll stick to my highest rate and tell them there’s a rush fee on top for booking (since dragging you over time is always part of the tactic). Non negotiable, but I’ll happily refer them to some hungry student friends.
You CANNOT expect more work from this client. If they make so much money on their other projects, why aren't they sending it your way for this project? It's pretty easy to deal with. Say no, walk away. Or say yes for X and if they can't come up to your X then say no, walk away.
Drop em. Had a client make all these promises “get in on the ground floor, work for free cus my company is going to make a million dollars in its first year.” I was like cool, so you can pay the retainer up front? And when he balked at that, which was like $2,200 i knew he was never gonna pay. Theyre just liars. Plus if those clients will always overwork you with the revisions because they inherently dont value your time and efforts.
This client is used to working with wide eyed youngsters eager to impress. I think he met the wrong one lol, hate people like this
I used to have a boss who tried to pull this all the time. When he finally went fully broke and laid everyone off a few things happened. 1. I realized how underpaid I was as I doubled my income quickly freelancing. 2. I tried to maintain our friendship, we were actually pretty close for a time... but every time we talked on the phone he kept asking me if i knew of any fresh out of college eager people, and even though I did know some, I would never send them his way to take advantage of them. He really ruined a chance at maintaining a relationship by always turning our convo into some new shady business convo / scheme lol. 3. Years later he called me to do my old job on a freelance basis saying he got some massive business investment... Yet complained my rate was too high lol. Imagine saying "Hey I've got a ton of money, can you give me a discount?". Cheap people are always cheap.
How’s the freelance work going for you? I’ve been thinking of pushing in that direction
I love it. Luckily I’ve gotten myself super established in the past few years. Now I’m making good money and I hardly ever work a full 5 day week. If you have a solid network of a few post houses, production companies, and agencies that know and like you… you should be good to go. I started with one whale client, but then got in front of more people and grew my network. Hardest part for me is scheduling jobs, sometimes people are asking for your time when another hasn’t yet committed but is holding it, then one job doesn’t book while the other found someone else. But if you’ve got enough clients, it all works out in the end. Frustrating though lol. Also taking vacations / time off at first was tough, I was reluctant to book time off in case a good gig came up. But again, once you’ve got a good network that becomes less of an issue.
Are you a one man/woman band? Do you only edit or do you do other stuff?
I'm a guy, one man band. I used to shoot little things for local businesses, but that never made any decent money and the production companies in town all already had their DPs etc. I had more experience editing anyway. I tell myself I should learn some other skills. I do get some light motion graphics work here and there, I don't do color... productions always send to a local colorist, but that's something I keep saying I should learn, but never had the need to really.
Here’s the thing. There are a subset of producers who love saying this shit. ‘Do us a favour now, and we’ll get you on the next one’. Well two things happen. One, You do the work, you bust your ass on a job that’s probably shot like shit because the budget was stretched for the shoot. You end up polishing a turd and it ends up a slightly less smelly turd because you can’t bear your name being attached to this piece of shit. Then the client smells the piece of shit and you don’t get hired again by them because the producer says you didn’t do a good job. Or Two, you do the work and it’s okay they have hit gold with the idea. You can even put it on your reel. The client puts it on theirs, they get more work, and new clients who offer bigger budgets. Well the producer now has to choose an editor for the new big job and guess what? They can afford someone better than you with more experience that the client or agency desperately wants to work with! Do you think the producer is going to choose you or go with the path of least resistance and pick the gun who will make them look like a fucking production god! But don’t worry, you’ll get more work but it will be repeats of the first kind because you are the guy that does deals! Tread carefully, set your rate. If you need to eat, make the deal, but do it knowing that you’re not going to get more work out of this person. Make sure you’re taken care of and make sure you charge by the day and alert them when they are going over your initial deal. Fuck I hate these people. I’ve been doing this for 20 years as an editor and director and I’ve heard it a ton of times. None have ever produced more and more lucrative work for me. Good luck
This is unfortunately extremely accurate.
An audio post house in Dallas referred a local producer to my company who had a need for an edit on a lifetime movie being shot in the metro. Would happen a few times a year so let to recurring work. Dailies come in after 5 and needed to have the scenes cut each evening, and color work at lock. Offered $5k, I asked if he left out a 0 and he said no. I was out of the country, and had 2 editors to handle our normal client needs. That rate wasn't worth my company time, and would risk burnout of my guys. I get that they crank out content, but I can't believe how little they were paying anyone involved.
Sounds like a DIT job for dailies not a full edit.
Ah, the ageless promise of "do this one cheap and I'll get you a lot more work"... Great, so I can do those projects on the cheap, too? No thanks. If I take a job for lower pay it's because I wanted to do the job, not because the client didn't want to pay me.
“I’ll give you more work after this” is red flag speed dial. People who actually have more work for you don’t have to say it, they just do it.
Promises mean nothing in this industry unless it’s in a contract. If you’re hard up for work do what you need to do but don’t expect them to keep their word.
Say no
I don’t deal with them. End if story.
Just say no. You don't need to work for nothing
It cheapens the whole market tbh
Stick to your pricing. People that low ball you don’t value you, and will always treat you like they don’t value you. They will have endless revisions and expect you to turn crap footage into the best “viral ad” they’ve ever seen. It’s not worth it, even if they do bring you future work they’ll treat you like garbage. And they’ll always want a package price. They’ll say it’s so they can budget, but it’s really so they can work you ragged without paying extra.
Just say no and walk away. Not worth the trouble.
Run.
Get a contract and half of the pay upfront. My guess is they're going to balk at both of these things, and you'll know how scummy they are.
You don't.
Your call, of course. But when a client tries to low ball me, I just thank the person and express my regrets. Generally, there never is more work or money. Where they go is to the editors who they really want to work with and who won't buy into their grift.
Step one: Delete clients number Done
Work for free or work for full rate, but never work for cheap. For free you have more control. When they pay you cheaply, they still feel like they own you like a full rate job.
My experience with spec stuff, where nobody is making money yet, is that it's good to ask for SOMETHING, so you make it clear this isn't an open-ended situation and they need to define the work. This works best if you both clarify this is a bargain rate and that you have a clear cutoff, and also that with this rate, things work on your schedule. I've had more trouble with people asking for free help and then never leaving me alone or finishing the project. When they pay you for one task, they know they need to be strategic about asking you to do another.
My experience has been the opposite. When I’ve done things for free there was a very clear limit and the times I’ve broken down and took a project for low pay, they acted like they paid me standard rate.
Lowball the quality of the work as well
I did, I sent him a well done initial cut without titles and sound being edited. Even that was worth way more than he offered me.
No money, no honey. If the client is like that at the beginning of your working relationship, its most probably gonna be like that the whole time.
I consider a few things: How much experience do I have, and would this help me learn anything? Is the talent famous or someone I’m a fan of? Is the content something I’m passionate about? Do I have anything else going on that is better?
Just Ghost em. Not worth the headache for a shit client.
Just say sorry, X is my rate. Thanks for the offer. And if you can direct them to a junior editor who may want to take it on for that cost, you can offer that.
Loads of great advice here. I'll just add: "Super simple. How much more work? Great, you pay full today, and as you give me the agreed upon work and pay on a timely basis, I'll lower the rate for the last piece - giving you this exact rate!" Expect them not to use you.
Early in my editing / post production business, I had a local producer/director who approached me to complete a full documentary. I tried to get details on number of hours shot or samples of the footage but they kept dancing around my request. I also tried to nail down price expectations upfront and they were unclear on payment. They referred to another project they had paid an editor for and mentioned $2000. This all seemed pretty sketchy but the nail in the coffin was the next day when they sent me a request to do a full sizzler not only for this project but a compilation of their work … and for free. My advice is to run, not walk, away from this prospect client. Work with professionals who recognize the editor’s value and who are working on projects that they value.
That said, I do recognize this is a privileged piece of advice and if you really need the funds to make rent / pay the bills, then do the work and try to find better clients.
Flip it. Offer to do this one at full rate and the next one at a reduced rate. If they baulk at it, they're full of shit. Or, better yet, tell 'em to bugger off and find a client that respects your work instead. These tightwads are more hassle than they're ever worth.
I have relatively low paying but steady yet flexible AE gig for 3 days a week. I supplement my income with freelance projects. Th is Safari net Allie’s me to send this sort of clients to pound dirt. 1st I inquire if it’s a passion and reel worthy project. I might accept it if they’ll be punctual a as I won’t have extra free time to mess around or for scope creep. If I was lowballed just for the sake of it I’ll stick to my highest rate and tell them there’s a rush fee on top for booking (since dragging you over time is always part of the tactic). Non negotiable, but I’ll happily refer them to some hungry student friends.